It's the Question That Sells | David Angel

David is a seasoned sales coach who specializes in helping professionals increase their results through modern skills: frameworks and SOPs that deliver high-end results.

He is the key choice for professionals who have spent their lives developing their level of expertise and are now looking to monetize this knowledge in a streamlined and professional way.

David takes those looking to get their first clients and helps them become seasoned experts looking to build out a team and scale out to increase their impact. He does this through 1-on-1 coaching, a group coaching program, and a fully interactive platform — meaning every expert has an option to get their business to the next level.

Gain access to hundreds of videos for free today at www.TheSalesAngel.com.

Transcript

Josh Bolton  0:00  
Hi, first of life's going good, fantastic Monday so far. Whereabouts are you? A California

Unknown Speaker  0:08  
you're just getting started for the day one.

Josh Bolton  0:11  
Yeah for most I work night shift so it's my do yep so it's night shift for me

Unknown Speaker  0:19  
was good to connect it

Josh Bolton  0:20  
is. So what have you been up to? lately?

Unknown Speaker  0:27  
Everything This is probably the most crazy 12 months I've had in my life which has been great. So loads to podcast, which landed top 10 in three countries but I've literally I've got I think I've still got 12 But we haven't even put to the editor yet. Now you know Grant Cardone is I guess, yes. Do you know he's got CARDONE University. So I've launched my own version of CARDONE university. But for me for the sales Angel summit launch V Ultimate Sales Training Academy started doing live events and two other coaching platforms seven low ticket products. So yeah, it's been a hectic time, but a great time as well.

Josh Bolton  1:13  
And hectic good, productive, hectic.

Unknown Speaker  1:16  
Yeah, like great. I mean, it's, it's five o'clock UK time now, my day starts a half five, I've not even had lunch yet. It's literally the days just go so quick. And then I'm like, Oh, my God, it's already five o'clock, but it's good. I think to get my goal is always to try and achieve two years worth of results in a year. Do that for four years. And then you've got eight years worth of results. And that's basically what I'm trying to do.

Josh Bolton  1:46  
So you're, essentially you're trying to two extra four, so you can rest on the fifth kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker  1:52  
Yeah, well, so we've what I'm doing now, mine is mine has been building for the last three years to really tweak all of the offers. Now we're going to spend the next year, basically getting out on podcast stages to promote the goal is to impact 1 million business professionals to get to the next level. That's in short, the tagline. So now I've got the one on one coaching the podcast plus now the subscription service. So we can put a million people on the platform tomorrow. And it doesn't really take much work. So that's really the goal. So now it's all about impact. So we're launching ads, and getting out speaking to companies speaking to teams do more podcasts, because now we've got everything there to add the impact. Now we've got to sort of open the floodgates rather than having 10 to 15 clients at a time. Now. I mean, over the weekend, we've had like 24 people, I think join the platform. So if we can keep that tight. Yeah, it's going like really interesting. I think the social media side I've got it's not game changing, but it's a really interactive group. So with that in clubhouse, it's really good.

Josh Bolton  3:04  
So then what is your this is just like on in class or like a SAS for stuff? That again, is it like a an online course that you're selling for the monthly membership

Unknown Speaker  3:15  
or of a platform itself? It's a fully interactive coaching platform, and what the platform does, it breaks down all of the modern ways of selling, which, if we look at most companies, most salespeople, most of the sales training they use has been based upon hereditary what was passed down to them without question. And it worked, right. And it worked. And he's got a bit more diluted and a bit more diluted. So what I've done is spent a lot of time and the platform now it's 680 different interactive videos from everything from mindset, lead gen. Objection, the whole nine yards. I'm specializing more in the high ticket outbound sales, because I think if you can sell high ticket outbound, you can sell low ticket inbound and and the idea behind that platform, it does two things. One, it's great for coaches, consultants and experts because they've got a hub to get all their skills, which actually then some people upgrade to a one on one. But because it's a platform, say if you've got a team of 10 salespeople, we can set you up hub inside our platform just for you to Josh's team, and then just can see how many times each one of the team members have logged in. So then you've got a full LMS, if you will, but then tracks monitored and trains the team up in an effective way anywhere in the world. So it works in both sides. So the plan is now to scale that out to 500 businesses, and then 500 coaches, consultants and experts, and then really have that as our hub. And then we'll launch further into we're adding interviews, experts, everything inside of us and people's have that hub to sort of come into where it's an effect audible but an effective way for people to generate more leads in their business more deals, and just become genuinely kick ass in sales.

Josh Bolton  5:07  
That's awesome. So I'm just curious, you mentioned it earlier. And by the way, David before he asked the question, can you give a little quick intro of yourself? I'm loving the energy already.

Unknown Speaker  5:17  
Yeah, sure. So hi, VOD. My name is David. I'm known as the sales Angel. I'm a sales and business coach. I'm based in the UK. And a lot of business coaches that are out there are great at business. But I think every business without sales is a hobby. I specialize in the finer details in how to get modern sales training that works. And I've got a really good BS detector. So when I talk to people, I can see between the cracks so we get more results because people stay accountable.

Josh Bolton  5:48  
And they can't hide from you. It's like, it's like, Oh, it's this, like,

Unknown Speaker  5:51  
I suck this. I sucked at sales for my first period of time. And it was only an I feel, I didn't consciously give excuses. They were reasons to me. But to a professional, they were excuses. And now a lot of people, but wherever blinkers on why sales isn't working is not a conscious blinker they've got on, they don't even know they've got it on. So then we have to have a good BS detector to spot that and change the narrative here in their head and give them a better solution so they can elevate the results.

Josh Bolton  6:22  
Oh, 100%. Yeah, I used to sell martial arts. And that was for longest time. They're like, Oh, we don't have the money or we don't have this. And then like, two weeks later, when the windows deal was closing, suddenly they had like the two grand I'm like, you said you didn't have enough money. What the heck happened?

Unknown Speaker  6:38  
Yeah, I think I think the whole thing, right? Everyone wants the results. Everyone wants the products and the services. But a lot of the time, it comes down to a couple of things. One, they don't believe it necessarily get the results today think that they think they're going to work it or free. They've just got other stuff that they prioritize and hold more important than this. A lot of people aren't in enough pain. And there's a sweet spot, right? The pain has got to be enough for some people to take action, but not too painful, where they can't afford to do too much in panic mode. And I think a lot of time in sales, people are looking for people to be in that spot, rather than shining the light and all the other areas to get them to take action. So they're not just taking a position of pain to make a decision. Right?

Josh Bolton  7:21  
Yeah, it's one of my coaches. He said, probably like a Frank Kern saying we're like, drag him to hell, but offer him a ladder on the way out. Kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker  7:31  
Yeah, I think that's the interesting thing. I think some people buy for fear of loss. I think some people will buy for a desire for gain. But I don't think most people don't know the difference between them. They're just used to feeling I'm ready to buy or I'm not. And they think it's a conscious decision. When actually it's normally an aggravation and eve of a pain or a stimulation on the the desire for game.

Josh Bolton  7:54  
That's very true. Yeah, when I was selling martial arts, I needed to pick up clients. And it sounds really creepy to say it out of context, I would intensely look for single mothers with a daughter going into college and say, hey, I can teach your daughter the basics. I can't guarantee her protection, but I can if someone tries to do a terrible thing to her that starts with our she at least can stand her ground. And it was just one of those like, out of context. That seems like I'm the most creepy looking for that. But then I realized, Wait, why wait to the last second? Why not get them when they're 13 kind of thing?

Unknown Speaker  8:29  
Yeah, it's interesting. So my dad used to have Judo clubs. And we talked to the girls ventricle, which has been like a girl's girl guides, self defense courses. And it's a four and I've got a daughter, my daughter's 11. And it's a thought you never want to have to think and a lot of people just live with rose tinted glasses thinking highlights this great. But actually having a conversation with people, it's very hard for them people to go, oh, actually, I'm not bothered by that. Because the fear of loss is a huge driver where people go okay, but I hadn't for this. But now I thought about it. Now I need to take the action. And the same way. We see adverts on TV for if you're a man over the age of 14, you don't have life insurance. Do you hate your kids type of advert? As soon as people hear that they're like crap, I need to now go and take some action because now I'm conscious of it. And I think once people are conscious of a potential pain, if that pain is great enough, people will just take action. Oh,

Josh Bolton  9:23  
and that's kind of what I was doing. When I was selling martial arts. I would look out for those those parents where I could. I was in a very rich area when we were selling martial arts. So money wasn't a problem. It was trying to figure out the objections. And that was the one I said, Do you at 13. Do you want your kid at 18 to essentially not defend yourself and be used by men? The father just stood there. Tammy Fine. How much?

Unknown Speaker  9:50  
It's interesting. If you have the right conversation with the right person, it just activates them. Yeah. And then they're like ready when? Okay, cool. So now I just need to decide do I believe you're gonna be the guy to help me? Or do I find someone else? Because that's the other thing, right? Sometimes people in sales can activate someone to being a buyer, but they don't activate them for them being the person they buy from. And that's what happens. And a lot of times, people will have a conversation and go, Okay, I've got the pain point. But then the salesperson or the consultant, the expert, does a great job of aggravating the pain but doesn't fulfill the person with a high enough level of confidence that they hire them, they go off and hire someone else. So if I'm like, yeah, the pain is great enough, let me go and think about it. But what I really mean is I've got the pain, but I don't know if you're the person to fix the solution.

Josh Bolton  10:38  
So let's say I'm hypothetically, me, I'm selling a kind of like you a business course. What would be something you'd you teach me as a client, to?

Unknown Speaker  10:50  
What depends on what you're trying to do? So there's, there's a number of different things. One of the things things we do with most people or hire us for a one on one coaching is we get it. When I talk to people about hiring, what we're doing, there's a pain point they've got, but it's a fear of a cost. So our first step is, let's get our costs covered. So say for example, if you've been doing your business for a year, and you've got a bucket of 100 people that you've pitched, those people that are in there, typically in most businesses don't get recontacted in the right way. They just get left and we hunt around looking for the fresh meat, we look for the new leads, the new people, but actually, if we imagine our clients, but imagine a key and a lock, and the keys got to be at a certain temperature before it'll open the lock. The people you've pitched previously, there's already a bit of heat in there. They already know you've already to agree understand you they know you do. Here we have a new lead. You're building that again. But there's been no rejection. So we lean to that. And one thing that we actually do is we work out what did they do? What was that offer? And then we work out where the problem was? Okay, well, actually, how did you pitch them and we will often get people to go, Okay, let's take the next 20 minutes, pretend I've come through, tell me my client journey, all we would go into their client journey, we'd fill out a form, we'd see what the email said, we would activate and book in a call and we'd see their full cycle. Now normally, in that cycle for a coach, consultant, or expert will find three or four blind spots in there, it could be even as simple as the title of email subject, the subject line for the emails, if I never opened the email, I never got the great message. If I didn't get a great message, I never booked him for a call. So then they can't and a lot of people miss just a little trick there. And sometimes it's as simple as going in go, Well, how big your email sequence, we've got 15 emails, okay, well, if email subject one is dead, like an awful title, when the next day comes in, they're less likely to open it because the first one wasn't any good. Right? So we look for different pain points within there in different blind spots. And then what we'll do is once we know how your structure of your client journey is, we find those blind spots, we do some quick fixes, more like glue and a plaster that's actually going to pull things together in a business. And then we reengage with all those people. And we take the day and we go, right, let's get a day in the diary. And we're going to spend the day on the phones. And we do a day beforehand, which is prep. And we literally go through we'll visit a conversation you had last time, here's our key objections, and we build out a full one on one conversation with that person. So then we know who we're calling, why we're calling them why they probably didn't buy before, the reason we're calling this time. And then we have a list of how we want this conversation to go. Because a lot of people have got in their mind what they're trying to achieve, but they've never gotten to the stage of to put it on paper in a clear and and systematized way. So when they get on the call, what happens, they go with the flow of the person they're talking to, they lose track of what their objective is, and then they get pulled off course. But by having things organized, when they say this, we're going to say that, when we see this, we're going to ask that. So then we go back in on that database, which shiners an expert and we pull business out. And that's one of the first things that we do. Because if we can get our codes say, if someone's going to hire us for 10k, if we can help you get free for Crown, fourth K clients on your already to pack 2000 in the black. By the time we've done that, now what happens, you've got far more belief in what we do. You've got far more belief in what's possible, you've got the ability to go out now. And you've got a follow up process, which is now in place. Now all we've got to do is tweak up your lead generation, and you'll believe somebody there so that means you got to execute to a higher level. And that's the big part. Most people get took on by a coach, and they try and just rebuild from where we are now as a new world. But people go into that new world of no belief, because their belief was already lacking. But if we can go back into what you had before, and find those leads that you did a great job of On, but you didn't quite convert, and now we convert them, then you're like, Ah, now I spot a difference. The easiest adage I've got for it is this. If you think about a plane, say a plane needs to hit 150 mile an hour before it takes off, you could be a great person it sails. But if you're already hitting 140 mile an hour, you're not going to go to get off the ground. But you don't need a huge amount of work. You just need 10 mile an hour more. And if what we do is we work out well, what's roughly your speed? What's your takeoff speed? And how do we fill that gap? And then we can get you off the ground. And once you've got some traction, it's going to be far easier to keep that momentum going. And then we can build on all the other areas of the business.

Josh Bolton  15:44  
Very true. No, it's very true. I was thinking, the reason I what I brought up earlier for the business concept is I've been approached a lot for business, like empathy in a workplace, instead of treating your employees like a number actually treat them like a human. Yeah, kind of thing. But it's one of those it's kind of hard, in a sense to like pitch it to say, hey, stop being an asshole to your employees, and you'll actually see more money come back to you.

Unknown Speaker  16:08  
Yeah, I think the problem being it's not a problem. But I think the interesting part of the conversation is when you know your avatar in a clear and defined way, a lot of people go, Okay, well, here's the industry, I help. But actually in that side, it's not the industry your help. It's the type of leader that you've got. Because if you're going in with a whole idea, which is an idea shift, and they've never even thought of the idea and the conception of ideas hard, or you're going into business for too big book, a person who actually would agree to it, they'd struggle to implement because there's such a high level of management underneath that, or old school that won't get in behind it, but it won't work. And this is the problem you've got. So my solution at that point would be okay, well, how do I find a company which is growing, wants to grow fast, but isn't yet set in stone. And the person who buys the product will also be implementing the service. So that might be a company that's only got 10 people, but they have a very high ticketed product was turning over 5 million a year, 10 million a year. Because then it's easy to change the culture on what happens if you're going into a company who has been in there for 20 years, and all the managers hate the idea. They're gonna drag their feet and even if the staff want to do it, it won't get implemented. So I think the avatar at that point is vitally important.

Josh Bolton  17:31  
Yeah, the major one, because I had another business guy come on the show, and they asked the same thing, like, what was your avatar? I'm like, I think it's small to like medium sized businesses, medium kind of being pushy, because it might be too far.

Unknown Speaker  17:44  
What do you causes? He's it then sorry to interrupt. So what do you cause? I, when I talk about it, think about the people you're working with, instead of thinking in context of small to medium, think of numbers, because what you want to do in in our in our head? In this side, we want to go okay, well, how many managers would I want to have? So might be in that company, there might be three departments, six managers, and each manager has got four people, okay, now we've got some numbers, what's the cons, or if we're gonna go into something, which is really small, there might be a director, and then you've got like, you know, a sales director, marketing director, and they've all got free people, that'd be easier to impact. And if a price values higher, what they sell, actually, the lost revenue goes up far quicker as well, if that makes sense.

Josh Bolton  18:30  
Right. So then it would be your second avatar, your percent? It would be that one. I would be targeting where?

Unknown Speaker  18:35  
Yeah. Wait, I think micro business small businesses don't come in till it's like 100 employees now, like, you know, we what we mean, but a lot of the time when we do it, and this way, it's interesting, because then we go, okay, well, who Who am I getting to be the decision maker, am I approaching Jim, the CEO, the managing director, sales director, the CFO, who's the person, but we'll see the pain point to the highest degree on what we're talking about, who actually has enough pull in the business to make a decision, but also isn't just going to pass it off to someone who doesn't care. And that's why it's interesting. So I was talking to a guy the other day, and they're very much about sustainable energy. So actually, if you've got believers in into sustainability already, their mindset is gonna be more open to that type of product.

Josh Bolton  19:26  
Sustainability, okay.

Unknown Speaker  19:28  
Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, their culture is already on about sustainability, about thinking outside the box about doing something which is harder, but for the long term good of the environment. So now if you're looking at a smaller business, which you know that the person you're going to pitch is a decision maker and an implementer is out on the floor. If you know that it's a company which has got small teams but high products, if you know their audience or sustainability. Suddenly you've got a lot smaller window, but you can narrate your pitch far better. Now you're approaching them with as you're a forward thinking company, I loved your article about sustainability on X, Y, and Z. But have you ever thought about the sustainability of your team? Who now you've got a conversation to talking about that? Oh, because now we're we're always scratching an itch on something that they're doing. And what I talked to a lot of people about if your outreach and especially cold calling or marketing, you want to have a provocative question, something that is going to make them itch, which is over, open ended, but it's going to talk and he's showing you as an expert. So for example, I was listening to a guy before and he was talking about exactly the same thing. And their example was that they were dealing with medical sales. And they were going out to talk to large medical sales based companies and so had medical products is sold, well, high ticketed products, but their overall costs were higher in cost, because they used to lose a lot of their staff. So it was about recruitment. So their biggest cost was recruitment consultancies. Now, what they did was their introduction was, as you'll be aware, with increasing cost of recruitment, consulting, going up by an average of 12% per year, whatever it was, in the next five years, your cost would have increased by around 80%. What actions have you took right now to lower the amount of recruit right, so this whole question, aggravates an itch highlights their big pain problem paints a problem in the future, that's going to be a big pain, and it shows you know their industry. And then at the end of that, if they say, Well, we're doing XY and Z, great, now you're in a conversation, if Allah had not thought about it, great. I'm glad I'm on the phone. So that provocative question shines as an expert shows everything, but then leaves us in a position where the conversation we're having is open. And that's where you want to be at with what you're talking now. Because if you've got a sustainability, and you find a big chart, or a stat or result about the last earnings, and you compare that to the every company that plants a tree to save so oxygen, and you bring that into a story, that's an open ended question. But highlights of the plight that they're going through anyway, but but damage which is being caused within their company by not taking action now, you'll then find out if they've got a plan in place. Great. What is the plan? How can you better it? And if I haven't got a plan? Why?

Josh Bolton  22:27  
It's hard. It's like, well, shoot, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker  22:30  
Yeah, yeah. And then you say, Listen, I understand. But that's why we're out reaching to you. Because every company, which in your place now is thinking about the world in 20 years, and I salute you for that. But we're missing out on what you could do in your business. And you know, what if we could say, say, say they're missing out on half a million in revenue? Do you realize that the half a million you're missing out on revenue could go towards the sustainability program you've got in place. So not only will your staff be better, but you can carry on doing more for sustainability. So your business grows was so does your mindset and everything you're doing? Right, working in sustainability in your company, not outside your company? Let me show you what we can do.

Josh Bolton  23:09  
Dude, I don't even have a company, I would have signed up right there.

Unknown Speaker  23:13  
So you don't say all of that in the startup. If you can get to that start of a conversation, it's far easier. Because you're not phoning up saying, Hi, I'm calling from John. And I know that you're a forward thinking person, I'd like to introduce you to a fantastic product. What we're saying is, hey, listen, I wanted to outreach to you loving your articles recently, and wanting to ask you a quick question. We just spoke to John over at Arp. And it was interesting what he said, but I'd love to know your answer. Right? So the fact remains that we know and then it goes into that provocative question. We've got attention, we shine as an expert, we get the itch being aged, we find out where they stand. And suddenly if they if they're like, I've never thought about or we've already got that either way, you're winning.

Josh Bolton  23:57  
Right? Because he acknowledged and says, Hey,

Unknown Speaker  24:01  
listen, I love a question. We've already got that. Amazing. How did you come across that plan? Well, we did this and we did that. Oh, great. And how did that work out? I would have done this. And wow, I'd say what you guys are leading, most of the other companies have never been thought that way. Let me ask you a quick question. In three years, do you think you will, right, and then you start looking into your product, and then it's about who they're using and why they're using them to what your solution could be. And if you're smart, and you know, you're competitive, you know what your advantage would be? Right?

Josh Bolton  24:31  
Right. The only reason I even brought that idea is now I'm trying to like all the avatar and mindset stuff you just gave me. I had a weird incident when I was doing security. High profile guy had waiting to company pretty much came up to me in saying, Hey, I know you're an observant person. Why is my building my warehouse that got me to where I'm at failing? It's like, he's like, it's my baby. And that's where I told him long story short, I said, essentially, the guy with a neck tattoo was wishing pains to come in here kind of thing. I'm like, morale does not exist here. And pretty much a game a couple of tips just like offhandedly Hey, just do this this should we as humans love games, even if we're not competitive, we'll play a game and say, Can you afford to put like 500 bucks of your own cash on the line for the next like month? He's like, Yeah, that's like two steak dinners. Like, I don't know where you go for two steak dinners at 250 A shot, but I want to try this place out. You're paying though. And essentially, yeah, he did it. And then he would it was just one of those. Because we had him build a good rapport. I didn't even realize he was such a high person. He just yeah, he handed me a blank check and said, Alright, here we go. My, that's it. I like, talk to you for five minutes. I got like 10 grand, really.

Unknown Speaker  25:44  
But that's the whole thing, right? They busy. He has a story of years ago. And there's a guy who's got a factory. And suddenly the factory production line comes to a grinding halt. And he phone this guy up and the engineer comes in waddling him with his toolbox. And he looks around. And his I guess his screwdriver opens one panel, turns the screws shuts the panel gives them an invoice machines will start 5000 pound. And the guy's like 5000 pounds. You've been here for two minutes. And he went, I can give you a breakdown of the invoice if you want. And he said yeah, that'd be great. So he literally breaks down the 5000. And he's like 25 pounds, sort of call out three 4975 pound for knowing which scooter time. And he hands it back to the guy and it goes like What's this for? And he's that I can take longer if you want. But I thought you'd want it fixed as quick as possible. Like you shouldn't be penalized. Because it didn't take longer. It didn't take more effort. We're paying a lot of time for the advice and the fact that that guy saw that value in what you gave him in that point. The problem is, especially in coaching, as soon as you tell someone something, they always feel that they knew it. Yeah, and this is why free advice is hard. Because if I told you something now, and you go, Oh my god, that was amazing. After a while you forget that I you'll forget where you were before you knew it. And you'll feel like you always knew it. And eventually you won't even look like I told you it. You look at Oh yeah, I sort of knew that. And you reminded me. And eventually I become less involved in that what happened? And it becomes more your idea. And that's what happens in a lot of situations. Because a lot of a time out. There we go. Oh, yeah, I've always known that. They'd weigh heavier. Yeah, we didn't. Someone else told us. And this is a problem, why a lot of places in businesses, coaches and consultants fail. Because as much as you want to give stuff to people, I always say you want to give away the recipe or give away the ingredients. If you give away too many of the for the full dinner, you've got nothing left to sell. And people don't need you. And there's a difference between shining as an expert, which you did in your one, right and giving away too much. But that guy eventually gets used to just getting your advice for free. And then familiarity breeds contempt. So then they don't value as much anyway, said no, don't even accent it.

Josh Bolton  28:02  
Right. And that's a recent one. A lot of people have been calling me on how to start a podcast and how to run it. And recently editing as where I heard you're editing one. I'm like, that's funny. But I just love the guy keeps calling me he was milking it for like a year, a month. And I was just like, nope, at this point, unless you are going to pay up. I'm not going to talk anymore.

Unknown Speaker  28:22  
Yeah, I did. I do it almost like a three to one with people. But first time people say to me about it. I'm like, Hey, listen, I'm happy to do that. I'll need to send you someone said the other day. I do a lot of Instagram reels. And they do all right. And the guy said, I love what you did. How'd you do? I said I'll record a video no need to done a screen recording then. And then it took me less than a minute sending but my God that's amazing. About a week later message me. Hey, quick question. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to work out how do I know sorry, the second one, he messaged me and he said, I had this problem was client. He asked me this, and I didn't know what to say what would you have done? I mean, listen, more than happy to tell you, but let you know this is two hours of free. Anyway, what do you mean? I said I'd give away a couple of pointers to so I can't do all the time. I said but if you need anything after the third one, you'd have to jump on one of the programs because I definitely have proved my value. Does that make sense? Right? So yeah, yeah, no worries, no worries. So I told him a week and a half, two weeks later, he's like, right, I need to hire a salesperson. But I don't know what questions to ask. I went but I'll give you a couple of pointers. But this is free out of free. If this is a good bit of advice. Are you prepared to invest in it? So I definitely think we've proved ourselves anyway. Oh, I don't know if we're ready for that. I would stop calling for advice. He's not a cash cow. And I'm happy to help. But if I just proved to you, like imagine me being a fireman you got a fire come and put it out. No, Zach little time to get a fire. I'll put it out first time you're like, listen, me. You need to pay for the fire brigade. Like the government doesn't progress anymore. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, I've done I'll put it on today with chi cough, like you've got a giving to people is great. But if you're at a stage where you are making 100 million a year You want to give it all away for free, good for you, that's cool, because you're covered. But most people that do that and normally built their businesses up, right, and what we do now with our platform, we get the whole thing away for two weeks for people to free whole thing, 100 680 videos. Because we know out of all the people who stay 60 70% will stay on, and they'll pay a couple 100 quid a month because they're gonna get the value. And the people that don't don't, but I had a guy today, even I'm not getting my car details at the start. Okay. So why don't you do it while you're doing it, we're getting 25 people a day join us. So when you join, you add it, we're not trying to skip like a hassle you into paying. But if we're getting 25 people a day, we don't have time to, I'd have to hire a team of people to phone up and say, Hi, John, we see you've been on the platform. And this is if you answer the first time anyway, would you like to continue your subscription? Okay, great. Well, we need your 16 get, I'd have to hire a team to do that. Yeah,

Josh Bolton  30:58  
there's no reason for that. Right?

Unknown Speaker  31:00  
And he said, what, why don't feel comfortable doing? I said, Well, here's the thing, if you don't feel comfortable in handing over, you don't have to. But you also probably don't feel comfortable with taking the advice that I'm giving you and putting it into your business. Because there's a risk in that. Right? If you're implementing something I teach you was a risk. It might go wrong and not be good. So I said, if you've got the confidence in implementing into your business, you probably have You're just nervous about getting the value. And if you don't get the value leave after 12 days. I don't mind. Anyway. Yeah. I suppose I'll go ahead. And I love to you I don't mind right now. But again, it's that perspective of it. Right? He's worried about putting card details in but wasn't second guessing. But the information he's seen on real for the last six months he's used in his business at worked. Actually, yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can be fine.

Josh Bolton  31:53  
100% No. And that's the same for me. The one client that finally closed, and he was just hemming and hawing trying to milk it. He's like, Oh, it's so expensive. And it's one of those at first, I was like, Okay, fair enough. Like your podcast is not making money, it would be a little unfair for me to charge you $1,000 A month kind of thing. I said, but your own I said, but that 1000 And I broke it down perfectly for him, they would be this much for calls this much for unlimited follow up this much for like back logging. I said, you're only gonna get one hour. And after that one hour for the week, don't even bother calling me because I'm not going to answer kind of thing. And he's like, okay, I can pay for that. And if we start adding value, I'll pay more. I'm like, Well, I promise you within three months, you're going to be tripling that kind of thing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  32:35  
But this, this is a whole thing. And so when people go, Oh, it's expensive. It is, like I said about our Batman service, which is the biggest all singing all dancing one. For me. It's more for larger companies. It's 50,000 a year. And so my God, that's expensive. Yeah, it is.

Josh Bolton  32:53  
Because you don't have the audience either.

Unknown Speaker  32:54  
But would you like me to explain why people pay it? And how people add one and a half 2 million onto their revenue? I mean, if I say give me 50,000, I'll give you back 2 million. Do you want it?

Josh Bolton  33:05  
I'll take it. I'll figure out how to get exactly. And I said to him, you've

Unknown Speaker  33:09  
also got to bear in mind that part of our Batman service means it's literally you need Batman, you put the torch in the sky, and he comes flying in. If you've been on a Sunday afternoon at three o'clock, and I'm having Sunday dinner with my kids, and you phone up and you're like there's an emergency, I need your help I pick up the phone. Right. And for companies, you've got high turnover with big staff hide. If I had a guy before as a free $100,000 deal, but was falling out. By him being on the phone today. Not only we save it, we up sold it to a $740,000 deal. So about one call, made their profits about 70%. Call made over half a million. You got me for the rest of the year for free. Pretty much. Right? And he's mad perspective. And then he was like, Ah, okay, well, yeah, I don't think we need that. I said, I don't think you do either. I don't want you to realize that's where you can end up when your business grows. But how does this sound? If I told you at 10,000 pounds, you don't get me on Batman, but you get me all the rest of the time. Would that be good for you? Well, that sounds more affordable. So now that 50,000 He freaked out about has now made the tenancy more affordable. If I'd started at 10, he probably would have said that was expensive. And then 50,000 A year insane. Yeah, because he didn't have a measuring stick. And it's the same as when you go into Porsche. You walk in and see a 911 and your bloody are less expensive or 120,000. Now you walk in him as a Carrera GT for 800,000. And you go, yeah, this is a bad outcome and see the 911 It's only 120,000 Because now there's a measuring stick. Yes. And that's what makes the difference.

Josh Bolton  34:44  
So I'm curious. This is one tactic I was working with my coach on and he never really followed up. It's similar thing. Let's say I pitched the highest most expensive one, all the details. And let's say hypothetical 20k. And I well that's it spend some of my will you get like the really dumbed down version for a fourth of the price or like half the price is that a good tactic to go at it to,

Unknown Speaker  35:08  
I wouldn't say dumbed down, unless you're trying to alienate someone from going to it. So the way I look at it, there's some different approaches one, you can start in a lively conversation and say, Listen, there's a few levels to this, you can get started and either way I can help you. And this is what I say to the people on the platform is that this was free options. Our biggest option, all singing, all dancing, and save, I've got a team of 10 salespeople are doing 5 million a year, all singing all dances you come in with a Batman service that always gets them to ask what it is. And I say, but just to let you know from about that's 50,000. But there's a reason why it's 50,000. And then I talked to them about going mad, sadly, 2 million in revenue to some companies. If I can add 2 million in revenue good you have a budget for that, or is that outside of a scope? Even if you wanted to? And ask him that question. Like if I can if I if you knew you'd make 2 million? Would you have a budget? Because if I say got it, even if it's gonna make you 10 million, I haven't got the budget for that. I couldn't say it. Okay, good. Well, there's other options around let me talk to you about what we've got. Right? that I think makes more sense. Because if you fix on that for a second you go listen, forget what's included. Imagine it made you 2 million, would you have that budget, if someone said to me today was a Lamborghini, one of one merci la Largo for 600,000 pound, if you buy it will be worth a million in the next year, I'm not buying it. I don't care if there's a guarantee from a queen. I'm not putting 600,000 on on a car, even if it was going to double in value. That would be a pointless car to try and sell me if someone tells me about an AC Cobra for 80 grand, but yeah, but Right. So be no point however good the offer is if the budget wouldn't be there, but it gives you a measuring stick of where people are. And if you've got a product for 20k. And you say to us, listen, there's a couple of options here. Let me just talk to you about it. And we'll go from there. Because either way I can help you. So the lowest option out here. What's your lowest option cost?

Josh Bolton  37:15  
Oh, hypothetical bliss, the lowest option would be 5k.

Unknown Speaker  37:19  
Okay, just say the lowest option is 5k. You got a 10k and 20k. Right? So those free tears over here, we all singing all dancing, the best one out there gets the best results, but it's an investment is 20k. Let me ask you this, say I ticked all the boxes of everything you ever dreamed of and you added millions in revenue? would 20k be in a ballpark that you could afford? If you wanted to? Right? And then it's haven't got listed? Nah, don't even think about it. Okay, cool. So between me and you, a lot of people started a mid range. And if we do X, Y, and Z, they'll often upgrade to that later. Once we proved it. Do you think that'd be more what you'd be looking for? Are you the type of person to start at the very bottom level? Because you freak out about stuff and you want to build up slowly? You tell me what do you normally do? And a guy normally started a bot. Okay, cool. Tell me what did you start with last time? We started with a BNC. Okay, cool. How did that work out? It was crap. Do you think it was crap? Because you went cheap? Or do you think it was right? It went great or brilliant? Why did it go? Great? What did you like about it? What didn't you like? Did it hit your expectations? How did you feel when you started? Were you excited? Were you disappointed? Or if it weren't for the mid one? How did you feel making that purchase? Did you sign the check? Do the transfer and freak out? Or are you quite comfortable making those investments? I like making those decisions. Because I'm confident when I invest more I know and I'm gonna get a better result. So those questions at the end of it. We haven't even spoke about what's involved in that package. Because what we really want to know is how do they feel about those packages around that value? What's their expectation? Did he feel that cheap or low cost is better? Did he feel that cheap or low cost is the worst thing on the world? Because then you change the whole narrative about what you talk about and how you approach it. Because then you know what they're trying to achieve?

Josh Bolton  39:11  
Very true. Yeah, very true. I'm just like sitting here. It's like such good knowledge. And we're like, wow, keep up Josh. Ah,

Unknown Speaker  39:21  
this is the whole thing is like, everything's got levels to it. And if after 20 years of doing sales, on a high ticket, outbound basis, we haven't picked up some things that are in there. And we've tried a lot of things that haven't worked. And this is the whole thing behind it. Now, the idea of doing these podcasts and all these lives that we do is simply that most people that are in sales or competent, right, what we're trying to do is get people up to a Kobe Bryant level. Most people feel there Kobe already. Most people think they're very the NBA Finals standard of sales. And it's only when we break it down. And it's nothing wrong with being at ATK a year. But actually if you're at ATK you gave us a big job you can go the small amount of skills we add on. And that's really the sweet spot that we work with.

Josh Bolton  40:07  
Okay, it is. And it was, like it was mentioning with when I was selling martial arts, it was like that those small tweaks whether I realized it or not, it might have been my instructor and just retirement figured it out. When I did those small tweaks, it went from maybe closing five clients a week to like closing almost 20 and saying, telling them like, Hey, I'm like, literally to take you on as a student. I'm full. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna have to jump your prices up that kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker  40:30  
Yeah. And a lot of it's for small things. I'll give you a prime example. Have you ever heard of the I never told you to killer exercise? No. Okay. So this is really where people forget how important tonality is. Now, if we use one phrase, I never told you to kill him, right? And then we just change the tonality of this sentence, the whole meaning changes, and think about this in yourself. So if I say, I never told you to kill him. And if he told you to kill him, I never told you to kill him. I never told you to kill him. Each point is a different meaning, right? The implication is dramatic. And it's a change in tone on one word. So now think about your sales pitch or presentation, the way you close the way you handle objections, how many times we could get about one slightly off, and the implication is different than we meant. Or our accent is different to what they're used to hearing. So they feel that way you say it is different than what you meant. And this is why it's so important. And when you're in a conversation, you're really clear, and you're concise. But you're clear on the tonality and what you emphasize. Because sometimes that one slight word, when you go in for a close or you ask for the order, they freak out. Yeah, we've got to be clear about it. And that's where tune in the engine on a race car makes a difference. Right? You turn it one little bit too far. It's over revving, right? You adjust for brakes too much and a too tight. Other times it's too loose, right? Changing the gear ratios is going to alter depends on the terrain you've got. And most people out there are driving rally cars thinking is Formula One. And it doesn't work the same. Right. And that's the big thing in sales. Most people move industry, they take the success they had in medical sales, and they go to real estate and a lot. We're just not hitting as well. Now, because you're tonalities off, you're talking to a different person about a different thing. You were talking about some high end hospital about some 2 million pound machine, where now you're talking to a guy and a couple but about to have kids on a 2 million pound house. But it scared shitless off. Right? And it's a big, big difference. The fact your sales skills are fairly similar, but the tonality and the way you talk to them is everything. And that's why it doesn't hit for most people.

Josh Bolton  42:52  
Yeah, no, I have to very much agree with that. Because like, near the end, I was more the empathetic like I'm here to listen to you, Joan. And in the beginning. I love my instructor by make fun of him now. He's very aggressive, like alpha personality, unless you're alpha, get the hell out of my office kind of thing. And there's nothing wrong with it. And he had great conversions. But like for me, I couldn't keep up with those. So it was like I would close them. But then I would always have to train them. Kind of thing. And

Unknown Speaker  43:20  
yeah, exactly. And you shouldn't pitch it away. He is it's different people. Right.

Josh Bolton  43:24  
Right. And that's where I think I'm for certain point, I realized that I'm like, Oh, I'm not looking for his type of clientele. I'm looking for more of the understanding, more open minded, easygoing, guy like, stereotypical California and was like, Hey, man, kind of vibe. So yeah, it was just that was just trial by fire that I figured that out. But now like listening to you, and many of the other guys I've had on this show, I've realized it's like, if you do it enough, you will figure it out. Even if you got no context. You get guy like David, though, he's gonna just give you nitrogen you're gonna find on the racetrack. But that's the idea, right?

Unknown Speaker  44:02  
It's developing in sales for it for what you're doing. So for example, if you're on a sales call now, and I know your product and service, and we've worked together for a while, I should be able to sit with you on a headset, and I can't hear the other person and help you without hearing what they say. Because if we've got the right conversation structured in the right way, based on the question you ask, and the reaction that you've got, I'll know roughly what they've said, because actually, the words that they're saying isn't necessarily as relevant is the reaction to the salesperson. And that's what screws up more deals is the way the salesperson reacts to an objection or a hurdle or a question. Their tonality changes more than the buyer more than the potential client. And that's what ruins the deal is for the flat that goes into it, or what happened, have a confused look or that big pause where they didn't know the answer. And then a lot of time is what the problem is, is not the fact that the prospect didn't Want to buy to buy or didn't want to buy? The flow was lost, the rhythm was lost, the barrier was built up by a salesperson out of out of that, and then that breaks the routine, and then they don't know where to go. And then it just goes does and the whole tempo gets lost.

Josh Bolton  45:17  
Yes. But what also like the actual closing statement, like you, you didn't stumble, you didn't raise your tone. But like, let's say, if is there any other questions? Or do you want to proceed forward on signing up for whatever? And I actually had a client just sit there for 10 minutes, and I'm like, What do I do kind of thing. And just one of those, I remember my instructor yelling me like, if they're quiet, you're fine. Don't interrupt him, or you're going to lose your cell right there.

Unknown Speaker  45:46  
That genetic problem you've got with it. Some people in the early stages here who speaks first loses, right? And that can really cause problems in your deal. But the problem in the early stages is often people will go into the sale when they haven't got the person's full attention. They ask a question and a person wasn't even listening. And then the silence and then people freak out and screw it up. But if you've had a real, purposeful conversation, and we've gone through this, and you've answered 1520 questions, and we've gone through it all, and I've really gazed, where you're at, I know your emotional state, I know that pain point and other problems. And we've gone all the way through and at the end of it, I turn around to you and say, Hey, I've been the best thing for us to do is if we just get started now, I can get everything booked over for you straight away and we can have you on boarded on Tuesday, Wednesday be better for you. And if I stay silent at that point, you're thinking about days, you could be looking at your calendar, but a lot of people what they do in sales, it says Okay, great. So I think we should get started. You wanna get charted Tuesday or Wednesday. And it's really rushed through

Josh Bolton  46:51  
that startling

Unknown Speaker  46:52  
and indecisive type what? They're confused. And that's why the tone and pace is so important. Because if I'm like, Okay, listen. Do you have any more questions? And you're like, No, okay, cool. So thinking about this, looking at my diary, and I literally I'm looking at this on my screen. I'm looking at the diary, and I'm thinking out loud. Tuesday. Looks alright. Monday, no, when? Tuesday, we could onboard you on Tuesday. If we onboard you on Tuesday, we'd be in for probably Wednesday. Done. Yeah, I think we should assess these blind spots out by the following Friday. What would work for you? Do you want to do Tuesday? was Thursday going to be better for you? You just tell me. Right? If we're going in where you're hearing me talk and hearing me talk, and I know you're engaged. And I know you're listening. When we go silent? They're ready to answer. And if a silence is because they're thinking, and if I've slowed down, and I'm thinking out loud, they should have been keeping along with that pace that a gap shouldn't really be as long anyway. Or you should know straight away. Because if you've gotten really long winded, if I'm thinking outside for good 10 seconds, okay, we could do Tuesday, but a time I'm going and maybe Thursday, they've already decided if Tuesday was a good day for them. Right? A lot of time is a big pause, because it was such a blunt and fast close for the order that the person wasn't ready. So they hadn't really thought about it. And on the flip side, if there's no pause, and they object straightaway, you've more than likely gone in for it and asked for the order far too quick. Where you were ready to ask for the order. Not you, but the hypothetical, you know, where they weren't. And that's what happens a lot of salespeople as well, we rush through that conversation. To get to the close, instead of finding a solution that matters to the right person, and then trying to complete the order.

Josh Bolton  48:51  
Yeah, very true. And I'm gonna say but there's no science on the right. point when to close, right?

Unknown Speaker  48:59  
There's no site to save as note. You got to bear in mind. You're paying like battleships you're getting and you're feeling out. Without a clear guide. You've got different personality types and combined types. You've got different knowledge levels, different needs, different pain points, different budgets, different people, they relate to talk to different solutions, different ideas, all of these are all mystical things that you don't know, this is why it's so important to really find what those pain points are. And if you're going into it and really digging in on the emotional side, like a lot of people do almost like a survey. And I'd be like, okay, cool. So what's got you on a call today? What's the big pain point? Okay, why is that hurting? Okay, great. And have you set a budget aside? Okay, great, and Melinda. But actually, by slowing this whole thing down and being like, hey, just off the bat, I'm not even too sure if we can help you know, it's like some people is just too far gone in their business. What I'm aiming to do at the moment is work Get on three or four areas, if we think it's a good fit for you, we'll work out where you are. Either way, I'm going to tell you Yes, I think we can help. Or I'll let you know I can't. But if I can't help, I'll promise you this. I'll put you in direction of some other people's Either way, you'll come off this call in a better position you are now does that sound fair enough? Yes. Okay, cool. So I'll give you a prime example. Someone I spoke to earlier. And you tell me what you think about this. And suddenly we're into a nice, relaxed conversation, where you're not feeling pressured, right, you're not freaking out, you're not worried about me trying to close you, you know, at the end of this, if I can't help you, I'm going to point you in a direction of someone else anyway. And now we can actually really get into what is the problem? What's the pain point and find out actually, if we can't help, we can't. Or if your pain isn't, the problem isn't costing you that much money, whether you'd even have a budget for it anyway. Because some people don't even know what the problem is. And what they think the problem is often isn't. So they come to you with a problem. But the the diagnosis you'll give based on what they think it is, will be wrong, which means they won't even buy from you. So this is why what do you think the problem is? I'm gonna ask a series of good questions, find out if it really is the problem. And then it might be a different diagnosis from what I would have first thought.

Josh Bolton  51:25  
Right. And they it could be cheaper or more expensive, and on their end, but you You've proven the point, and you have the solution. So even if it is expensive, unless you just broke the budget completely, they'll pay.

Unknown Speaker  51:37  
Well, sometimes I talk to people I know. I need I need more leads. Prime example. Oh, my lead generation sucks. I need to get ads. I've tried Facebook ads didn't work. Okay, cool, right? So let's break it down. Think of it like a maze. There's a lot of different pathways, we could have gone down. And just because what you're doing right now, as I'm work doesn't mean that's the wrong pathway, you might have just been doing it slightly off. So let's tell me a bit more about what you've done. What you expect it to happen, and we'll work it out. Let's crunch the numbers. And so normally, if we're on a zoom, I'll get a pen and paper out just to people like so you write stuff down? I got Okay, cool. How many leads did you get in this month? We had 80. Okay, how many did you close? We're close to five. Okay, cool. And who done the sales? It was me. Okay, cool. And s&s And how much is it worth and blah, blah, blah. I mean, somebody's work out. They've got a 5% conversion rate, and they're talking to people for 15 minutes on a high ticket product where they haven't even done enough work, you go, Okay, well, the problem is that you haven't got enough leads. The problem is, you're not structuring the conversation in a good enough way that they feel comfortable to take action. So actually, you don't need leads. So if I started talking about lead gen, you're still gonna have a problem because you have a 5% conversion rate. Right? Right, what do they really need, you need a structure that's more effective and designed for your buyer to feel comfortable that you are competent, and able to help them and make it easy for them to make a buying decision where we remove as much of a risk as possible, we increase the level of certainty, but it's going to be a success, and believe the fact that your product or service is going to be easy for them to implement. Because if it's easy to implement, we remove a risk and the likelihood of success is increased, they're far more likely to go ahead. And that's where a lot of people go wrong. So now you can diagnose something, we have a good explanation on why you don't need to spend more money on ads, ads aren't the problem, the pitches for problem, the questions you're asking or even in the wrong order. And the way you're leading that conversation isn't helping you and adding more leads is just going to cost you more money. Because then you need more people, you've got to train them. You got to build the lead less people, you just need to get more precise.

Josh Bolton  53:52  
Right. Darren, we'll see. Let's talk about the hypothetical 5%. So what would say that businesses may, how would you I don't know how to use SEO or anything, but I know like Facebook and Google ads to get leads, would you recommend maybe something different, like if it's a SAS or a software as a software as a service or something else, generate more leads

Unknown Speaker  54:17  
to get better conversion

Josh Bolton  54:17  
and get more leads?

Unknown Speaker  54:20  
I think if you've got if you've got a higher ticket ID product and you've got a 5% conversion, you don't have a lead problem, you have a conversion problem. And that just means you're Imagine having a car with 1000 horsepower, but every time you press the accelerator load of end, which none of the powers going through, it's always coming out of the bottom of the engine. Like you don't need a new engine. You need to just get the power to come through. Right. And that's what's happened in a lot of businesses. People are under baking their cakes. They're doing things it's just not effective. So if you're already thinking like this, imagine as a salesperson, you've got a 5% conversion. You're a standalone An expert, and you're getting whatever say you're getting free, free appointment qualified appointments a day, right? That's free hours work is an hour long consultation, blah, blah, blah. But you're only conveying 5%. If you can convert 10%, you've doubled your money. Right? If you're going to increase your ad, spend by another two grand a month, and you still stay at 5%, you've still got the cost of the ads, you might need new staff, you're gonna have to send more emails, do more visits, do more, there's a lot more costs that come in, or you just become better at selling. And that's all on you. And if you've got a team, it's even more relevant. Because if you increase the sales skills of your team, it doesn't mean that only gonna get better by 5%. You might get better by 20%, I could teach you one thing that might increase your sales by 30%. Right? Yeah, that's the difference. If you're getting a free pound lead, okay, we spend 100 pound we're gonna get 30, free more leads, or you develop the skills. Those skills stay with you forever. The ad spend, you've got to spend every month, yes, you do no matter what. Right. So if we start spending another 2k a month on ads, plus another 24k a year, plus the staff plus the cost plus all the other stuff, more people to follow up with. But if you can increase the skill level, you might only see another 5% in sales, you might see 20%, you might see 50% Because that's one thing, you've got that one skill that you learn could be the difference between using a 25% conversion rate and a 5%. Your increase on adspend is only going to increase your amount of leads. But it also increases your amount of risk. Because what happens if Facebook suddenly change your algorithm? What about your ads suddenly fully on its ass? Now you've got no conversion. If you've got the skills for your team to sell more effectively, or you, you take them, it doesn't matter what happens with your ads. Because if you have to start organically generating leads, if you move to SEO, every person that comes on that phone is getting a better version of you, and ever getting a better version of you, they're more likely to buy and if they don't buy today, they're more likely to buy later, increase in ADS is just increasing the volume of people coming in. That's not the pain point. The pain point is what happens when people come in your door, come in your business turn up as a lead. How many of those leave and go wow, that's a company I want to work with. And even if it's not now, at some point, I will, if you've got 95% of people that don't buy from you 95 out of 100 Guys, not for me.

Josh Bolton  57:44  
But what if it's their more of the higher point of the funnel? Like the upper part, they're just inner being introduced? What do you mean? So like they're there. I'm gonna go back to martial arts because this is a lot of them would come in, cuz I would literally just take flyers and run around the neighborhood just slamming in their doors kind of thing. Yeah. And so it brought the awareness but they were like, well, martial arts is like Taekwondo, just take your dough. Like I'm not asking to learn anything. So it was like a whole process like a month just working with them, explaining them that and then once I got them down the funnel more, then I was able to close it. But it did it looked like for my first three months, I barely had a 2% conversion rate. But that three month point on it was like insane. But

Unknown Speaker  58:27  
that's because you're planting seeds. That's all like climb problem, right? Your first conversion, if I walk into a room now and say Hi, everyone, you've never met me before who wants to buy and I get a 2% conversion rate, you wouldn't be surprised. If I turn up in that place every week for the next four months, you would expect more people to because the people who met me in month one and now interested in buying your skill level and go up your pipeline was just over a long. And now we're dining on love for the people who met me a month one. Right. And that's the difference. When you start off in month one, you've got no pipeline. So you're only actually selling to the people that will be self actuated. Like yeah, crabbet Let's go. But now in love for the people from month one are starting to get activated. And that's why we see an increase in sales for a lot of people. So because your skills got any better. You've just got more people in the pipeline. But imagine for a moment that those questions on month one that were better, and the way you had the conversation was better. The thought provoking questions were more engaging. We got that person to feel I need this. Not like oh yeah, taekwondo, take my dog. I'm not gonna learn anything. But actually for conversation is hey, listen, you might have heard some shocking things about take my dog. I mean, taekwondo. And it's funny people talk about it because a lot of people suck. Do you mind if I tell you the top three reasons why people say take my dough instead of Taekwondo. Why? Here's number one, right? Suddenly, it's a conversation about the very objection that people think about that increases it. Because instead of running away from a hurdle of take my dough, we use it as the marketing.

Josh Bolton  1:00:06  
And I think there was one client I did close to they were saying that like, oh, all martial arts same, just take my money. Why are your chest so expensive? And I said, Well, it was pretty much thing like the test, you're you're paying for our time, essentially. And you're the first which is you just mainly paying for the outfit. The outfits, not cheap kind of thing. We're

Unknown Speaker  1:00:24  
sorry to interrupt. But what you're doing, then you're justifying your cost. Because they don't care about the cost. They don't see the value. The cost is what they pay the value is what you get your explaining why that? Why the fees, oh, you get a GI and all the other stuff. What they What did they say you don't learn anything. They don't care about the cost if they learn it. And the value wasn't there. And that's the problem. If you've got someone if I say some of those some, you know, the fact that the fees are the fees, we don't take the money on the fees. That's just what it is. Let me explain to you why most people think that martial arts sucks. It's because week one, they love it. They're enthusiastic week two to start feeling embarrassed because they suck. Week four, week five, they still suck. They're not seeing any results. Let me ask you this. So we went to the gym today and you want to get ripped. And when you went went in and we went hard today, you went home, you took your top off? Would you expect to see any muscles? Now? What about in three months in you might see a little bit right? What about six months and we start seeing something. Now imagine if you did meal prep. Now man, you start eating twice a day you calorie kind of what made a difference in your results with a massive, that's exactly the same with martial arts. You're not going to see it in month one. So if you're thinking you're going to come in and lunge start throwing roundhouse kicks or Mumford, this isn't for you. But if you stay committed to this, in six months time, you will get the same result you would have by having a PT, and you'll get to defend your family. Defend your honor, protect your property, and you'll look pretty cool as well. That's the value we'll offer you in six months. Does that sound more valuable to you? Right? Yeah, that's far more engaging burn the cost of a GI.

Josh Bolton  1:02:09  
I think for that one again, I just had no context. But it was just he was like, well, you're, I might have done something similar like that. And he's like, Well, water or whatever. Like, that's not a prima thing. He's like, we've just why is it so expensive? And that's where I guess I picked up on the why is it and I was just explaining that

Unknown Speaker  1:02:25  
physically fit for a lot of people out there now. But people you've got to bear in mind, there's some people out there that aren't your buyer grumpy, but you get prospects and suspects. You get people out there that are your potential buyers, and you've got two people out there that look like your buyers but are never going to buy and they're going to kick someone put a post up yesterday on Instagram I put it on a reel I think got like 7000 views. And then one guy never seen this guy comment on my stuff. And he put on there. Why would I want x so they get access seven or what we're gonna do is 708 videos, watch them all and not action a thing. And all. You could watch the videos that you need help with and implement one thing and get a result. That's the other side. But that guy's never gonna buy it. No, he's only heard well, it's good, actually. So what all 780 videos, he was automatically trying to find a negative. He was like crap, that's good. That might have the missing piece I need. He was that. Oh, what do I want to do? What seven? Oh, because you're gonna sit there back to back watching videos. It's not Netflix.

Josh Bolton  1:03:28  
Right? I'm just curious, David, how long do I got you for? Because we're already a little over 10 minutes. Perfect. Then, yeah, there's just guys, like, I've noticed that too, where they're just like, oh, this night? I'm like, Okay, fine. Like, move on. You can go find someone else.

Unknown Speaker  1:03:46  
Do you think is it every so I think everyone has potential clients, and some of the people now but uh, so I'll get people to Oh, yeah. So the big thing I get is I get people to say, Oh, yes, sales. I know that. I'm like, great. It's good. You've got some experience. And then instead of me being like, well, you're not my buyer. I say to him, let me ask you what industry you're in. And Alchemia wherever telecoms? Okay, cool. If we put you in a chart of everyone in the country, in telecom sales. What position do you think you'd come in? Oh, I don't know. And most people don't we got a halfway. Okay, cool. Now imagine for a moment if we can get you 10 spaces higher? Would you earn more money? Yes. That's what we do. We take people like you that are great at what you do. And I'm not saying you're not, and we help elevate you to the next level. Tell me if you've got 10 spaces higher. What do you think that would make me more a year? I haven't got a clue. Talk about it. Let's say hypothetically, we could help you make another 50k a year. That's another half a million in 10 years. How old are you? 30 when you're going to retire 50. Okay, so that's potentially another million pound in your lifetime. Imagine for the moment I'm right, and we can make another million pound in your lifetime. But you can leave if you've got kids. Yeah, I bet you can to leave to your kids, would it be worth having a conversation to see if that could happen? And if it's not, you can wipe him out of it and never look at it again? Or suppose so. And that's the conversations we have. But other people aren't listed, not a charge. So I'm a number one in my industry. Okay. If you think you've been on one industry, that's great. Congratulations. If you ever want to come back and have a chat to stop by, we're always here. And it's just having that conversation, I think a lot of time in sales. But a lot of the time people out there, not you, but in general, people get they hear the same stuff over and over again, and we get used to it. And we react differently than we did the first time we heard it. And I think one of the specialist things in sales is treating every single person you talk to like the only person you've got knowing, but it's not. And I think it's hearing the objection is if you heard it the first time but knowing exactly what to say. And I think when people can get to that stage, we deliver far better service to the people who want to buy our products and services.

Josh Bolton  1:06:01  
Very true. That's very true. And that's what I started doing near the end, it's treating it like it's the first time I've ever tried to pitch a sale be as honest knowing I already knew what to do. But just be the honest and sincere, softer voice instead of very assertive and loud and good actors.

Unknown Speaker  1:06:18  
Yeah, look at the difference between Robert De Niro and the some crappy film, you can put Robert De Niro in a terrible film. And the acting would pull it through. All right, you can take the best from the world and put a crappy actor in it. And it would still flop. And that's the same in sales. And we've got to go Am I being a Robert De Niro right now? Or am I being the guy or for so you can still be the guy for soap and do all right, because people would do to television soap to make a lot of money. It doesn't mean you're gonna be Robert De Niro. No, actually, if you hone your craft, so you can be Robert De Niro. If you want, you've got a lot more options. Because you're in more demand.

Josh Bolton  1:07:00  
Very true. Very true. I want to be mindful of your time. So I've got three going out questions for you. Yeah, go on. So first one other than work, what have you been doing to keep yourself busy? During these COVID lockdown times,

Unknown Speaker  1:07:12  
I took up windsurfing. So I live on the south of England right on the coast, I literally right next to the river. Windsurfing, which I always thought that boring as hell. And I'll be honest, I was completely shocked. And I absolutely love it. And now I haven't been in the last few months because of winter. But I'm starting back over next week. And I'm back doing boxing because I don't like going to the gym, but I want to lose weight. And having something where people have got pads that I can hit I find really really keeps my concentration. Anything I can't hold a phone because I've got gloves on we're gonna win cipher is always good killer spend about 10 hours a day on my phone?

Josh Bolton  1:07:47  
I bet. So it's kind of been this whole episode. But what is some someone has inspired to be like you go down sales, start throwing things, what are some tips, tricks or advice you give them to start that path?

Unknown Speaker  1:08:00  
If I can do sales, anyone can do sales. Most people want the instant gratification of results. And they'll see some people come into sales and hit it straight away. And then they'll think this isn't for me, I didn't do as well as stay committed and think long term. Learn the craft. And watch back your games. Like listen to your calls. Learn what other people hear from you, not what you think what the impression you think everyone hears. Because what we think we say, and the way it comes across is always completely different. And when you hear what you sound like and then because I hate my voice, that's the voice everyone else is. So if we hate the sound of our voice, feel sorry for everyone else. If you don't like the fact you talk so fast, slow down. If you hear yourself back and you mumble learn to talk more clearly. If you sound miserable as hell start smiling more, make more effort. I talk really loud because I used to mumble really badly. And you'll hear me sometimes I'll go really fast. And then in my brain, I'm like no, slow it back down. So it's a learned skill. Anyone's Welcome to go to the sales angel.com You can get access, like we said earlier to the platform, and it's about committing to it. No one would want to go and become a doctor without studying. No one watch videos on YouTube about how to fly a helicopter and then just jump in the sea and start flying it. You've got to get out there and do the lessons, do the craft, cut your teeth and develop the skills over time. But I'll give you a way to this if people stay committed. You learn the craft you listen back, you stay committed, you stay committed, you stay committed, and you keep doing it over time. You can have dramatic increases like crazily Hi, Baby my wife

Josh Bolton  1:09:43  
perfect and you kind of touched on the third one is work if people want to get your purchase your website well I'm starting now. The platform yes the platform Thank you David.

Unknown Speaker  1:09:54  
Just go to the sales angel.com Or you can go to instagram.com forward slash for sails Angel. And I literally post reels pretty much every day of content on there. But their platforms the best option because like we said earlier, you can go on there and test it out without spending a penny. You have to put your card details in. But to be frank, I mean, if you're worried about credit card fraud, never buy something off Amazon like anything can happen, right? Yeah, yeah. And if you're ever going to utilize me, this is the step before you pay for it. And it's a far less riskier version for people to put your card details in. And if you don't feel comfortable that I took the just follow me on Instagram, but yeah, thank you for having me today. I really enjoyed it.

Josh Bolton  1:10:34  
absolute honor and a pleasure.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai