Trust Authority | Ari Galper

Today we have Ari Galper, a trusted authority in the age of consultants and advisors. We go through the ways to distinguish yourself from the noise of consulting and advisory sales loop and failures.

www.AriGalper.com and www.UnlockTheGame.com


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Transcript

Unknown: 0:06

All right. How you doing? Good. Josh, how are you doing? Pretty good. Good to meet you. Pleasure to meet you. Excellent. So what what's the plan for today? got you on? It was I read your books by the way, your secretary sent me some? Oh, you think that you really good? What are the big overarching question, which I didn't notice what's in the book was what to do to stand out. You were talking about all the different trends leading to your failure, but I didn't hear I kind of simulated books and podcasting kind of thing. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Cool. Then let's just go into it for the lay man or the visor trying to get into it. What you were you the only thing I didn't sign up for, but from the knowledge you were throwing your summit? I know. That's we don't do that anymore. That was old. Oh, what's that? Yeah, don't worry about that. Okay. No, just yet. I'll just take it my homepage. I'm not the game.com for a free course. That's all. Okay. Sweet. Then, what did you get? Yeah, no problem. There's kind of three main areas that I want to cover. One is the story story behind, you know, trust based selling what's what's your story? And then there's myths, sales myths, and then principles, what are your principles? So there's kind of three hooks, you might want to consider just laying it out, and I can outline some good, good stuff with you on that. All right, perfect. So we'll go with the story intro I think already. Yeah. Yeah, we I usually whenever I get the ground like this, I just put the intro and we go right into it. No problem. Sounds good. Then let's get right into it. Alright, today. Today, we got Ari gulper. Yep. are yelper a professional business advisor for the advisory people, and just trust marketing in general. Here he is. Ari. How are you Josh? doing pretty good. Actually. Nice. Sunday day can't complain. That's great. I appreciate the intro. Yeah. Just to clarify. My specialty is trust based selling. I just be selling okay. Yeah. And that's where I help people kind of avoid chasing people. And I've been leading the field there about 20 years. Awesome. So then, let's actually let's go right into just the trust based selling and not stealing, not stealing, of following. You are the leader. How does that story play out? Well, there's a story behind our philosophy, we call unlock the game unlock the sales game that happened about 20 years ago, I was a sales manager in a software company back then. And I had underneath me 17 sales people. And this one opportunity came my way, big, big company. And if I close the sale, it will, you know, be a big deal for the whole business. So at the time, we were involved with that online website tracking tools that track visitor behavior through websites. Now it's called Google Analytics. But back then it was one of the starter baby businesses that was either bought up by them. But so one opportunity came my way I call the contact back, he we do a conference call. And they finally came. I remember I'll never forget, I was in a conference room with my with my director in the room, closed or behind me was a big long conference table. And on the table is a speakerphone. And I dial the number I like to call my contact for the conference call and the phone rings, he picks it up. He says hello, hey, are we looking forward to the call? And then he says to me, let me tell you who's on the conference line with us today. I said, Great. Who else do we have? Next thing I hear is My name is john. I'm CEO. I was like, wow, CEO, this is good. My name is Mike. I'm head of it. This is good. My name is Julia, I'm head of marketing. This is even better. I mean, everyone on this phone call was a decision maker, you know, let's call it hoping as often as possible, so I was pretty excited. And then I introduce myself, and begin to give a live demo over the web of our online tracking tools to track websites. And I we tracked one of theirs as a prototype and start walking the fruit, to show them what it looks like to see through our tool, all the data that they can see the visitors with and I start hurting all these noise on the phone call like, Wow, this is great. This is amazing. I can't believe we can we can see all this information. They start asking me all kinds of questions. You know, how does it work? How do we install it was technology. I had all the right kinds of answers. Of course, I was competent tactically. And I answer all the questions. I mean, Josh, there was so much chemistry on this phone call. It was like a love fest on the phone, you know talking about? Yeah, it just felt so right. You're like Ah, this is this is a done deal. So then, we were you know, going back and forth. I got the high five My boss in the quarters like Nice job, Paul kind of comes to a close. And my got my context is we are this is great. We love it. Look, give us call a couple of weeks follow up with us and we'll move this thing forward. I said to myself, Ah, thank you, God, perfect. So I wanted a next step. So I said my goodbyes, and I reached for the phone and hit the off button on the speakerphone, as I'm reaching for the off button, by complete accident. Now I say divine intervention, my thumb hit the mute button. Instead of the off button, they were right next to each other and by completing actually hit the wrong button, and a small click happened. And they thought I hung up the phone. And that split second voice and said to me, sorry, go to the dark side be flying the wall, you got nothing to lose. And I pulled my thumb back for a couple seconds. They started talking amongst themselves thinking I left the call. And what my a guess that I they talked amongst themselves they got up to go any guesses on that? Great kid, good sale, but don't know if we want it. You think so that's what you probably expect, right? what they said was this, they said we're not going to go with him. keep using it for more information, and make sure we shop someplace else cheaper. I wish I was just out of the state of shock. I could not believe it. I was like what? That finally hit the off button. Love the wall and I said myself What did I do wrong? I was professional. I was competent. I knew what I was talking about. And the first big epiphany hit me that was this that somewhere along the way it has become socially acceptable. Not tell the truth. People who sell right. Okay, it's okay. They say things like sounds good send me information, I'm definitely interested without having any intention of buying at all. And then I realized that there, why were they afraid to tell me the truth. And I realized there's an invisible river of pressure that flows underneath every cottage, you have somebody in the sales process. And if you don't remove the pressure from that process, then what happens is they don't feel comfortable telling you the truth. And I realized, I've got to come up with a whole new mindset shift, a whole new way of thinking what I call that unlock the game, unlock the game mindset shift with a goal is not to focus on the end goal, the sale anymore. The focus is only on to build trust with the person. So they feel comfortable telling you where you stand to you and know if it's a fit or not, which became my whole revolution. In selling around unlock the sales game, we've for the last 20 years helping people shift their thinking, change their approach to build trust, which then generates the truth. And you know where you stand? That's kind of the story behind unlock the sales game. Okay, that's a very good one a much more detail. He sent me the book and I read through it. And it was, it was really good. So I want to go into into how the trust is built? What are the the tools and the mindset you would need to go into that? Sure. Sure. Well, first thing you have to do is you have to clear out some of the old sales myths in your mind, clear out the old thinking. So I'll cover a few those myths. Now, one common one you may have heard of is the idea that the sale that basically sales is a numbers game. It's a pretty common, common thought, right? Because the more contacts you make, the more sales you're supposed to make. That's that's the theory, we discovered, we discovered is it's not about how many contacts you make anymore. It's about how deep you go on each conversation, how good you are at trust building and connecting, not how good you are, how many contacts you make, as the first flip the second eye concept as a VA, the sale is lost at the end of the process. That's the myth of shear heard up before we lost the sale? What happened the end? Would he get the deal? Well, it turns out we discover the sales not lost at the end of the process anymore. is lost at the beginning. As she lost her Hello. I'll give an example. Someone calls you tomorrow morning, you hear Hi, my name is I'm with we are a what goes through your mind about three seconds. I will ship? Exactly it's over at Hello. And so the last myth is this idea that rejection is part of the game, you have to accept it. It's normal. We discovered that research that in our research that trigger that rejection is actually triggered by certain things you say and do that causes the other person to not feel comfortable telling you the truth. So I'll share with semi listeners today. what some of those triggers are and then we'll get into it from there. Okay. Okay, let's do it. All right. So one of the triggers is languaging the words and phrases that you use, so I developed my own what I call trust based languaging words or phrases to use it basically shift your mindset so you can connect that trust and have them feel comfortable telling you the truth. And that's based upon three principles. Our first principle is a principle of what we call diffusing pressure. diffusing pressure, always make sure you're aware of diffusing the pressure from the sales conversation at all times. I'll give an example of that. Let's say you're on a first call with potential client first conversation. And the call is going well could be a good fit. Just some chemistry there and listening, good opportunity. They're qualified. Usually at the end of a call like that. We usually say things like, like, what, Hey, how about we move forward? Or? Or how about we get together? Have a have a cup of coffee? And so that's typically the model is we try to move them forward. What can happen if you move somebody forward, and they aren't ready yet? What do you break with them right there that process in the beginning? You guys will be polite to listen to everything, but it already in your head, you're written off like I don't want Yeah, you broken trust right at the beginning, because you're so conditioned to move things forward. So here's what we do. In our scenario, we're using our approach our language, same conversation call is going well call comes to a close rather than saying, Hey, how about we will forward? What we say instead is this we say? Where do you think we should go? from here? It's such a simple phrasing, but it means so different actually. Yeah, what it does, it shifts the power to them. And it's actually quite shocking. They're usually really in a state of shock, they can't believe that somebody in business would ask them what they want to do. It's unheard of, because we're so conditioned to the cult of selling what I call it, we're, we're so used to behaviors that pull someone down a straight line, and they can feel it from us all away. And they don't want to they don't want to tell us the truth. When you said somebody, where do you think we should go from here? They're usually very open to sharing with you what I call the truth, which is things like, well, I've got one more question, or what about this, all of a sudden things come out, as you never would have gotten until the end. And that's one example of using our trust based languaging. And you also may have noticed the way I delivered that I said, Where do you think we should go from here? It was done in a very relaxed, calm pace, not a script like, Hey, where should I go from here? And half of this is delivery, you have to come across authentic. And, and really, in the moment with them. And that's what creates that trust right away. That's an example of how to build that trust. Yeah, yeah, that's it's very true. I used to in my younger years, so martial arts. And that was one of those beginning I was always about to close the deal, close the deal. Get that $100 bonus kind of thing. But then I realized, Oh, I'm calling literally 1000s of people a month, and I'm getting all noes. And I implemented something similar. Not as well phrased. I was just like, so how do you feel about this? Like, dude, is there anything we need to review before you're comfortable kind of thing? So it is, it's, it's all about the language. And if you don't know, the proper use even tone, it can be the most terrible thing, if you say, in a calm manner, people are just gonna dig it. Yeah, yeah, half of it is delivery. And half it is a language we call a trust based languaging. And I'll share some more with your listener. So the second principle is the idea of what I call getting to the truth of people where they feel comfortable telling you, Willie where they stand in the beginning, not the end. I'll give you example. So listen, I recently got a phone call got through my team got to me, and I heard this, I heard Mr. Galbraith said, Yeah, my name is john Johnson change the name. He says, I'm with XYZ company, you recognize their big business. And they said, we're looking to bring someone into to train our team to change our whole sales culture. We're looking at you and two other people right now. We'd like to know why should we go with you? Why are you the best and give me your best sales pitch? is a classic, you know, call and of course, I have a human being to their real big company. And I took a deep breath, got centered back in my mindset that I teach, lowered my voice. And I said to him, Well, isn't that interesting? There's more to where there's more. And I said, because over here at our company, we have very similar process to you where we ask them questions, see if we're a fit, and then go from there. I said to him, would you be open to that? That's all I said to him. Then there was Joshua's dead silence on the phone, not a word. I was like, Oh, my God, he's still there. It's still there. And then I heard a breath across the public key breathe and like a sense of sigh relief, and he lowered his shoulders, I can feel it, and he lowers his voice in this estimate. Okay, what kind of questions do you have for me? And next thing I know we're having a normal conversation and in that competition discover one, he's not the decision maker to he's doesn't have a budget. And three, he's just curious as to what I do. After five minutes of talking, I said, I'm off to some free videos on YouTube and we hung up the phone. And what did that just say be months of months of running around chasing the tail? That's right. It's months of what I call hopium. Instead of hoping and dread that goes for advisory hope it's gonna work out we get so excited to get that call. Yeah, it prevents the whole chasing game and dehumanizing process that we're used to doing leaving voicemails and hoping they'll call us back. That's been a horrible, demeaning experience for people who have been dehumanized, forcing people to chase them. It's terrible, should not be done. And so it's what I was able to do there in five minutes is what I call get to the truth, using our philosophy and our languaging. I mean, if you heard what I said to him, I said, Would you be open? Not Would you be interested? See, would you be open doesn't force them into yes or no, they create an open space that allows them to tell you where they stand. So the languaging, the mindset combined together is a place of being centered, you connect with people. And this all goes back to the where this all comes from, you know, I grew up in a household where, at times the dinner table, I couldn't always say what I wanted to say I was kind of suppressed at a dominant figure in my life, and I couldn't always share my truth. And I felt like, as a kid, I had to kind of battle what words to say. And I was I had to train myself to say languaging the people to this person that allowed them to consume what I said without making them frustrated and pushing back on me and, and I my whole life's journey has been to help people release their true to say what they want to say in a way does not mean the other person trigger into a negative reaction. That's where it is all came from. It's been great for people who are in sales for 20 years who struggle with how to connect with people to deep level because they're used to and conditioned to saying phrases and sales languaging that just connects them that negative stereotype if that makes sense. It does. Yeah, it is one of those. I've been reading different books. And I've realized just the phrasing of a word like that instead of our open to the other. It makes the biggest difference. And it's super subtle, and most people won't even pick up on it. Yeah, exactly. And the last principle is idea what I call being a problem solver, not a pitch person, where basically, you're not just you're probably heard of the elevator pitch or the you know, three second, you know, presentation about yourself that whole thing, give me somebody else better to take who you are. So yeah, the problem with that is you're pitching your solution pitching who you are, what we do is we put that upside down, we help people connect to other people by not pitching what they do the solution. But instead of connecting to the other person as a problem solver, where you describe the problems that they solve, and that creates the connections with you in them. And that builds trust, you don't prematurely offer your solution too early in the process. quick story for you. around this, I was set, I went back to the EU, I live in Sydney now Australia. But I'm from California, we'll go back there frequently. And I went back a few years back, and I was hired by a high tech company to train their sales team. And we're over 500 people, and I did a day with them. And about halfway towards lunchtime. A few of the guys in the corner were standing up, their arms crossed like this. looking right at me from the distance. And I can tell when I do the group of the group like that's always a few people in the room that have this sort of message to me, like, you know, who does this guy think he is? I've been in sales for a long time. What's new in the game is always kind of that old armor they carry with them over the years. So I was prepared for this. I say guys, gals, you've probably got lunch, we're gonna do one more thing. We're gonna make live sales calls in the room. On this phone, I put a phone on the speaker on the table, I dropped it on the table and said look on this phone, we make live calls. And our whole rooms like, like frozen, they're like, one guy goes white. You can't we're not going to make like, we can't do that. I said that. Don't worry, you're not gonna make live calls in the room. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna call your toughest clients and prospects. You can't reach on the phone right now for everybody in this room to prove to you this is the future where things are going in sales. And so I find that one guy what gets up walks down the aisle like Sorry, I got one for you. For you to call. I said come on down. Come on down. I said what do you have for me? He says, Well, I've got I'm what's called a winback. Rep. My job is to win back the old clients we've lost over time. And I have 10 on my hit list every year. each one's worth at least seven figures. If I close one of these sales a year on a year over year. There's one client we lost last year. We shipped them out brand new laptop they're looking forward to getting for offshore big meeting of the company and the box has arrived. For the meeting, but they arrived, unfortunately destroyed, like, the screens were broken. And the laptops were just dust in that bad bad luck in the shipment. They were so upset with us, they called us back cut the whole contract off, we lost, we lost that whole business with them. It was a massive loss for us. And so my job is to win them back. The problem is, I can't get through the decision maker. I sorry, the gatekeeper. I can't get through her. She's blocking me. And I've tried every trick of the book. I've tried to go through her around her, you know, incentive date her, but nothing's working for me. And so are you once you give her a call? I said sure, no problem. So I took the name and number. And I told the whole room please the live call, please keep it down, they still couldn't believe what's going to happen here. It was a state of shock. One guy goes, You can't do that. You don't even work here. You don't know our technology, you don't know our our product line and our version numbers. Now you don't have to know. You don't have to be expert, your solution to an expert the problems that you solve, because this is about problem solving trust building. So I dial the number, the phone rang, and the whole room is pre wired the whole audio system. And guess who picks it up? The gatekeeper? Yep, exactly. So she picks it up. She just allows us really. And I proceeded to say this. What I said was this, I said, Hi, Julie. My name is Ari. And with XYZ company, and I'm hoping you can help me out for a moment. That's all said there. Now for those listeners who are doing outbound calls. That's one of my language pieces that you use to make an outbound call. Because when you said to somebody, what he say is, how can I help you? That's exactly what happened. It's human nature, if someone asked you for help to ask for help. So last thing I said is, I'm just giving you a call for only one reason, one reason only. And that is to apologize for what happened last year, we shipped those laptops, they came destroyed, and you were upset with us. You called us back the whole expensive trouble for you and us. And I want to simply called to apologize on behalf of myself and my company if no one else has so far. That's all I said to her. The next thing I hear the next thing I heard the phone is nothing. And I was like fine. She says, Oh, well, let me tell you are we I was there I was at the meeting, I got the bucks. I opened it up, I couldn't believe it. She started talking and talking. And it was like a dam opened up like out of nowhere. It just lets the whole thing off her shoulders. And it was just they just landed and after 20 minutes, she finally comes full circle. And then she says Oh, and I'm I'm the key person involved in decision making process or engage you guys again. The whole room of the status shock. This guy you want to go through a whole the whole time? Turns out, he should have worked with exactly. And so she finally comes down and relax. I said, Look, I just want to call to apologize or reason I'm calling. It sounds like a terrible experience. I want to see if you'd be open to us. reconnecting again and healing old wounds and building trust again, would you be open to that? And then I, I and then she's like, she says, Yeah, that sounds good. Let's schedule a conference call, pull everyone together and move this thing forward. Next thing I know, she's rattling off names and numbers and phone conference line zoom links. And she's excited about pulling this call together. And so I said to her look, there'll be myself and my colleague, john, one of us be on the call. Is that all right? Geez, yeah, that's fine. Either you fine, no problem. She was like, so excited for this phone call. So we scheduled a call together. And I said my goodbyes, she says one more thing to me. You know, she says to me, I'm not going to even take a guess what did she say? It says thank you for being the first person in your company, for actually listening to me. And hearing my side of the story, rather than trying to sell through me. And we hung up the phone and the whole room went crazy. They could not believe as an outsider, I can make one phone call, cut through all the noise, build enough trust. And of course from that, you move things forward. And that's really the story here I'm trying to share with you and your listeners is that you got to stop selling. You got to learn how to build trust with people. We've lost that art of trust because we're so used to hiding behind screens technology, and not connecting people with people on a deep level and that requires a mindset shift and languaging because if you do this right, you can get to the point of what I call the one call sale. You can either onboard somebody or disengage with somebody on one Phone call without having to chase them anymore proposals and pressure, it's revolutionary to actually imagine the idea of generating a sale on one phone call, assuming it's a scheduled consultation without chasing somebody. And this is all possible. If you're open to changing your mindset to trust based selling mindset, the way we do it. That's really the story. That's wonderful. So then, within that story you've hinted a few times elegantly. So what would be the tools to on top of language to establish trust? Well, it's languaging. It's it's mindset. Mostly, I guess that those are issues around being centered with people being good listening, going into their world, being Minami Matt as being a problem solver. So when someone gives you a problem, you don't just say, Oh, I can help you with that, what you diagnose the problem at a deep level five questions deep, like a doctor patient relationship, right there, the patient with a doctor, you know, prescribe a solution, just because they have a problem, you have to go behind the problem to a deeper level, they wouldn't understand. When you do that with somebody, they feel you understand them. And they automatically say themselves, he or she gets me. And that creates a whole new level of trust with them, where you can now guide them towards the right answer. And that's that's called the one call sale that we teach. That requires you to really be a much better listener, and deep connect with the people at a deeper level around their trust and what's on their mind without you jumping too forward too quickly on your solution, which always happens all the time, what happens is, we hear someone we can we qualify them in our mind very quickly. We know their problem, we can help them solve, we jump right to, I can help you with that. And that's we destroy everything, you know, chasing somebody, they want to think about it and becomes a nightmare. After that. It becomes it's just never ending cat and mouse. Maybe you said something right yesterday, but today, for some reason, didn't have enough coffee, the way you said it, it's just done. You get stuck in the chasing game. That's why I teach people how to reengage without pressure using our approach. So without giving away the keys to the kingdom would be similar the tactics like like the one call approach with the proper language, but maybe it's using like a book or a Facebook ads kind of thing. Well, obviously, you got to make sure that they're qualified. Once they get to you. Hopefully they are, if not, there's always this qualifying people. But certainly if you had a book that you created that was sent in advance of the call that definitely positions you as what I call a trust authority, where you can basically eliminate a lot of resistance in advance. Because if you get a call with someone, they don't know who you are, obviously the whole what happens they put the spotlight on you. They make use are talking about yourself, who are you background, but even with that we have ways to reengage people on that phone call. And hello, it puts the ball back in their court. Let's just say for example, you're in a call with somebody scheduled call on LinkedIn, from LinkedIn or whatever. And you connect them the phone resume and they say, Hey, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. We're so used to building a relationship with someone on a call that we get we go sideways with people, we kind of Hey, how's it going estimation, where were you from? We wasted all this time trying to build relationships with them. But we don't know how to focus on trust. So I figured out that you that you don't have to build a relationship with somebody pre sale, to build that to make that sale. You can build trust with them without the relationship. They're mutually exclusive, which is a big wake up call for people been trading the old way of get to know someone have coffee with them, go golfing, have a few calls, hopefully they like you, they trust you, then they buy from you. Well, good luck with that one that'll take you forever in this day and age. Because what people want pre sale is not a relation for relationship from you. What they want is trust from you. That's separate, a different skill set. That's the we teach how to do that. And hello. So sometimes you have to call someone for the first time and you schedule what you do. And you start with this. You say Nice to meet you as much as well. If it's okay with you. Let's take a step back for a moment. And maybe walk me through but your story, but your journey up to your current business challenges. We'll go from there. How's that sound? So you kind of put the ball in their court and they start talking about the problems that you do do what we teach, which is the one call sale from there. And now I'm seeing all the pins line up now that you've just said that it's exactly what he did before the introduction. So it's Julie brilliant. Sorry, for some reason can't talk right now. Um so like again with the fall giving away the keys or the kingdom. What are some of the nuances of the language? The or macalik? Me I'm stammering but it's maybe it's the the presentation. Well, the nuances really is delivery. It's the way you deliver the languaging would you be open has to be empathetic For instance, a whole bunch of words. For instance, rather than saying somebody I'm calling to follow up with you, you know the follow up Word and one uses. In our world, we never use the word follow up ever erase the vocabulary. As we you said, somebody has to give me a call a follow up, and Associates you the negative person stereotype, which is Hi, I'm calling to make the sale from you. So instead, we teach our clients to say, I'm giving you a call to see if you have any feedback, any feedback on our previous conversation, and a feedback on our last meeting, so it's not follow up, which is moving things forward, it's feedback, which is going backwards, which is taking the pressure out of the process, because we learned, if you try and move things forward with people, they're gonna push back on, you put the guard up, you'll be chasing them forever. So it's a reverse of the process using that language. It's interesting, yeah, I just finished the book Thinking Fast and Slow. And he said, if you can phrase it and just write words and opinion, people will state whatever they're thinking, without thinking about the consequences. But if you ask for their actual, like, a strategic decision is when everything comes up. And that very much ties into what you're saying. The you're saying, I'm going to follow up for the sale was strategic thinking. But if you're just saying, How did I do? They'll tell you everything. Exactly. That's interesting. That pretty much sums it up. Yeah, it really does. Um, any extra nuances of I keep saying that. any extra details within the delivery, that maybe you would go over with a paid client kind of thing, like, how to actually listen and talk at the same time. Yeah, so we do have a program around that, called the mighty Academy where help people will see, listening. Hearing is is passive, listening, active. Listening with someone means letting go of your own objective, letting go of your goal, being 100 100% present with them, while you're focusing only on them. That's how you build that trust with people where they feel you're present them 100% present. And you're not focused on your own goal. You have to we teach people how to let go of their own goal, let go the sale. Because right, you know, people feel that from you a mile away, they can tell when you're thinking about the next step the whole time. And that's what we help people kind of clean up their harddrive and detox, and D brainwash them from that thinking where they're so stuck on their next step. And they're stuck on their own goal. And that's why they're chasing people, because they're so used to that pursuit. But we've discovered that destroys trust with people. That old conditioning of selling that we've been taught over the years by the Guru's chase people, be enthusiastic, make your pitch, all that is killing your opportunities, and forcing people in the numbers game. And it's really a radical thought. And we've disrupted the whole industry with this thinking in this program for last 20 years. And there are lots of people I've talked to over the years to change your life, I found taking the pressure off themselves, and focusing on going deep with people that I trust have been it's been a game changer for people. So for let's say, a young entrepreneur on the street that is trying to sell, maybe they line up a good meeting with like a business owner, what would they need to do? Like they need to get pamphlet handed to him? Or get a new suit or just buy a coffee and just genuinely have a good conversation? No, they have to be all those things are fine. But they also have to learn about what is the core problem, core problems of that business person decision maker before they meet with them, not on the spot, you can't go on the meeting with somebody and start asking questions to find their problems, you have to know what the current events. What that means is if you were in a certain market and you're selling certain products, that you're a certain niche or certain area, then you probably know that they probably have three or four core issues that almost all your clients have a duty to help them solve. Now you have to know in advance what those are. So when they get you're in a meeting with them, you can now begin to ask them questions about those challenges. Now they might have different ones with a probably be in the same arena as your core three, one. So you can't go into a meeting with somebody and fishing for answers, fishing problems and not knowing where to take those problems. You have to know when they say to you, my problem is getting more sales. You have to know in advance that was coming. You have to be able to know where to take it from there. You'd be surprised how easy it is to know those aren't events by you understanding what your niche is and what problems your clients solve because it's reverse engineering from the solution to their problems. Interesting. So then, I was just thinking like a young buck on the street, found like a an apartment guru, but he also has his own business. Like for apartments, you can't exactly figure out that there's no like 10k to go read kind of thing. But how would So would it be like social media or basic internet data gathering to figure it out, I can research they can research Sure, on Google, what kind of issues that if the target market property managers, or whatever the target is there, it's all out there. I mean, you'd have to research it. But you have to know an events, you can't go in cold. You have to know what the problems aren't events, it's the secret, the old way was fishing for problems, fishing for poor, and trying to make the connection. Good luck with that one, the minute you say hello, they don't know who you are, and it's over and how long you're dead. It's like, they will be polite, and will listen, but now we're not doing this. So then, going into more for you, let's say, I mean, it would be a hell of a pitch. But let's say I'm coming to you and Sydney and I wanted to pitch something. But like, I know, your company is not public. So how would I looking into your arena to pitch to you all you'd have to research what I do and figure out what my problem what my problems would be for anyone in business. This is just certainly a fusion about three to five core problems of scaling, growing staffing issues, new sales is not that complicated, you have to kind of get an idea of what the common problems are for entrepreneurs, say in my business or other businesses that you think they might be having. And you have to maybe we even good idea would be to ask any your current clients with bro problems were solved when you work with them, or ask other people in the same business or problems to help their clients solve. It's all out there, you'd have to ask for it, go go look for it, research it. Did the pillars that's just trying to go for the year, the onboarding, HR and stuff like that. That is like you said, it's very easy and simple. Just ask your previous clients that are ready with See, I might have to look into your stuff to get a more direct better. Yeah, I mean, I do have a initial intro free course. If you want to anyone who wants to learn about what we do, it's unlocked the game calm. There's initial overview they can they can download and watch. Get a good feel for the whole view of this. Unlock the game. Unlock the game calm. Yeah. All right. Learn more game. Okay. Sorry. Just chicken scratching your number. So yeah, actually, I love it right there already. You push the unlocked game, anything else you want to send out to the listeners? before we head off? I would just say, look, I think the world has changed, as you know. And if you're selling the old way you've been taught to sell, but not upgraded to a trust based approach in the last 12 months or a couple of years, then you're going to be hurting, you'll be chasing people getting rejected by the numbers game forever. If you don't shift your mindset to trust based selling, then you're going to struggle for a long, long time. It'll get worse over time, because trust right now is a new currency. You can't tap into that. You're going to struggle. So I recommend being open to new approach. And like I said, we have a free overview at unlock the game.com learn more. Wonderful, yeah, then I will definitely link that in description and we'll go from there. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Have a good one. Take care.