43. Bringing People Together with Kathy Knichel

This week's episode is with Kathy Knichel, someone I met while on my military orders who has a wealth of leadership experience from her time leading the protocol program at  Charleston Air Force Base.  I loved talking with her from the first moment I met her and knew I had to have her on the show. During our conversation for this episode, we talked about how she started her career and built and led teams, but the theme that came throughout our conversation was how she brought people together.
 
Kathy managed an unrivaled protocol program at one of the busiest bases in the Air Force. She was responsible for oversight of more than 150 annual official visits to the command, military ceremonial events, conferences, and other distinguished visitors (DV) activities. She was a widely trusted expert throughout the installation and community and personally advised three Wing Commanders and 53 Mission Partners. She continues to inspire the people around her to be the best versions of themselves through her wealth of knowledge and personal experience. 
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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to episode 43 of the Lead Into a Podcast. I'm Sarah Greco, and I have over 10 years of experience in various roles in industries. During this time, I learned just how crucial leadership is as both an employee and a leader myself. This has led me on a mission to inspire and provide resources for those who have a desire to be a leader in both their career and their lives. The Lead Into a Podcast is designed to help you learn how to be a leader with advice, tools, tips, and inspiration from people with all different types of backgrounds. Let's get started. I met her during some of my military orders at Charleston, and I just loved talking with her from the first moment I met her. I listened to her talk about her time as a protocol officer and what she experienced and immediately knew that I needed to bring her on the show. For the military members who are listening to this episode, you know what a protocol officer is. Uh Kathy led the protocol program at Joint Base Charleston. And for those who might not be too familiar, they coordinate official visits. This could be with people around the country or even international members, distinguished visitors, military ceremonial events. But really, it's so much more. Because really, what they do, it's not just about the diplomatic policy or procedures, but it's really about providing calmness in a world that can be overwhelming by rules of etiquette. And Kathy actually provided me with that verbiage. And I think it hits the protocol office position spot on because they deal with so many rules, have to advise leadership on so much, but also lead teams to provide and follow the rules that are necessary in order to build relationships. And so during our conversation, we really talked about how she built her career, how she got started, and then how she built and led teams. But the theme that really came through in our entire conversation was how she brought people together. I learned so much from this conversation between being welcomed into her home and listening to her tell her stories and share what she learned to listening to her vulnerability in some moments of these conversations. So I learned so much from Kathy, and I know you will too. Enjoy. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time, and I'm really excited to talk with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Thank you, Sarah, for having me. I'm pretty excited about this opportunity as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

When uh I first met you, you talked a lot about like different uh opportunities you had and what you did, and I loved your stories, and I knew I was like, oh gosh, I have to have her on the show because your type of leadership and the skills that you bring are so authentic, but so needed. And uh I'm excited to share what you've learned and what you have provided to other people with the audience out there, and hopefully they can take something away and apply it to their really new or growing leadership skills.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

You know, Sarah, it's kind of funny when I try to think back to uh the amount of time I spent with people, I never really thought of it as a job. Uh, I started young, and so every time I started something new, I didn't look at it as a job, I looked at it as an opportunity. I started out in a in a very large building uh surrounded by leadership. I worked for a general officer my very first job. So the ladies in the office always took the initiative to make me feel comfortable. And so those are the things that I remembered the most. Kind of stuck that in my toolbox, if you will. And um when I had the opportunity years ago to lead, that was one of the things I promised myself is that I would always take care of people, no matter what level they were at, because it didn't matter what job you had or what the mission was, if you don't take care of the people first, then the mission can't succeed. So that was kind of my beginning.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I love that. And taking care of people is how things get done, in in my opinion. And I can tell that that's your leadership style.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Um, yes, it it always has been. Um, I was very fortunate when I worked at the Air Force Base, Charleston Air Force Base, as I will always call it. Um I realize it's a joint base, but it was joint, it was Charleston Air Force Base. And so there was a young lady in my office who was a very gifted woman, and she taught me a lot of great skills. And then she helped open that door for me when Charleston Air Force Base was getting ready to receive their first C-17. So I took that opportunity as a door opened for me, and I used it to build teams. And someone said, Well, how do you build teams? Well, that goes back to the younger version of Kathy when I was a young military wife and I didn't have a lot of resources and didn't have my family. Um, but I had a lot of friends and they were going through the same kinds of things I was, and so I built softball teams and I did a lot of church programs and I coached sports. And again, it was about building teams, building relationships, and sometimes helping people that didn't have any confidence succeed in ways that you just want so much for kids to have. And it doesn't matter if they're the best athlete or they're talented enough at something, if you give them the right set of tools, they can go do anything they want. And so that was kind of my younger years, I will say, 20s to 30s. And then in my job, I always had the opportunity for training. And so I took that opportunity. Um, when I was young, I went to nursing school for a while, and that's kind of div a diversion from everything I was doing. But again, it was I wanted to take care of people. My mom was a nurse and I wanted to do that, but my husband was active duty, I was in an area where I didn't have a lot of resources, and I did not have the confidence. So that was a personal reflection time for me. I wasn't willing to sacrifice more by leaving my children at night, by doing other things that would have given me that opportunity. So that's a personal challenge I went through at that time. But somehow that door still opened for me and I was given the chance to be the chief of protocol.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

And so when I did that, I thought, okay, well, I've just been given a different route. Let's see how I maneuver this journey. And so met a lot of great folks around the globe, and I went to training everywhere. And uh I even had the opportunity to go up to DC and graduate from the Protocol School of Washington. Really quick, can you explain what protocol means for those that aren't in the military world? Absolutely. Protocol is a form of etiquette. Protocol is policy and procedures, teaching other people how to lead an event, how to put together a plan of action, whether it is to host an event, host a group of people, dignitaries, if you will, ceremonial protocol is very detailed. The AFI, as I say, Air Force instructions, the operating plan that you use helps other people succeed when they've been put in charge to lead an event. So, for example, the command gives a name to me, a recommendation to lead a general officer or an admiral or a group of foreign dignitaries that are visiting. It is that responsibility of the project officer assigned to learn everything they can to put together a plan to present to the command that they're going to utilize to execute that visit. Now, mind you, there are so many details, not just when they land, but it's understanding their culture. What can they eat? What can they see? What kind of security do they have? Are they traveling with a spouse? What are their needs? There are so many details that people overlook, but I will tell you in all of my years, the best events that we ever presented were those of people that came back and said, wow, do you know how to take care of people? It wasn't, we learned so much about the command. They know the command, they know the C-17, they may not know all the details, and they get all that in the briefings from the leadership. But I will tell you, those young, enlisted people, young lieutenants, captains, majors, whatever they were at the time, had the opportunity because they were given all the tools in their little toolbox to present exactly what you would want them to walk away from Charleston with. So, and it wasn't so much, oh, you guys are great. It was look at how you took care of all the people that just came to visit. Everybody always wanted to come back to Charleston, and it wasn't just the protocol piece of it. In our office as a team, and I always said team because you could not do that job, and that's probably a lesson for another day. People said, Oh, well, protocol can be done by one person. It cannot.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Never.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

It could not. Um, however, the on-loan group of people that I always brought in uh allowed those individuals to grow in leadership roles, and probably the best gift to me when people say, Well, what do you get out of this? Well, I've seen those lieutenants grow. Some of them went on to be general officers, some of them are out running, they're CEOs of companies. I just saw something the other day that just made me sh I wanted, I just wanted to stand up and shout. It was a young lady, she was a C17 pilot who was on loan to my office. She just opened up a new store of for bat for dancing uh for her for her daughter. Her daughter's a little ballerina, seems like nothing, but she just opened up a store in the middle of a very, very busy community. So when I look at what people have come from, where they're at today, and where they're still gonna go tomorrow, I had the best job anybody could ever have. Everybody said, I wouldn't want your job because mind you, it didn't start at seven and it didn't end at four. I was in that office very early, we were there very late, holidays, weekends, whatever it took to do the job. But to me, you have to invest in your people. And if you want your people to have that same passion to come in and take care of something, then you need to show them how to do this. And so that was that was one of my um commitments to myself that I would always be there.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So was there somebody that you had emulate kind of what you're talking about? Somebody that took care of you that kind of portrayed what that is that you've ended up doing throughout your career?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I'll be honest with you, I had a lot of people in my arena that I observed. I told you earlier, how I'm that person that sits in the back of the room and watches what goes on. So for me, I I took advantage of the opportunity uh to go to training, to sit and listen, and to think about how I wanted to take what they did and put it in my own style of leadership. I knew what was important, but you're not always going to get the same outcome. I worked for many different leaders. I worked for 18 different wing commanders. Oh my gosh. And in 2010, when Charleston Air Force Base became Joint Base Charleston, there were many, many challenges. But I honestly believe the reasons we were successful in bringing people together then is because I was number one, a military wife with already 25 years of experience behind me with Navy acronyms. A lot of challenges because the Navy leadership does things differently than the Air Force. Not saying that one is better than the other, but I had an opportunity to teach culture to show Navy people that the Air Force needs to understand their way so that they can respect and honor. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

It does. And I think that it's an important note to bring up, too, how the different service branches are completely different when it comes to like people think of, oh, you're a soldier or whatever. That's usually what people come up with initially when you hear you're in the military. And so to understand the differences in culture, not only from different countries, but from different branches of leadership, because everyone takes information and like taking care of people, they do it differently in the different service branches.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

And I'll tell you, the training programs that our office put together was so helpful to young military spouses. They didn't typically want to come forward and go to any training sessions because, you know, they'll say, My priority is my children. It's his career or it's her career. The training that we put together was so friendly and so interactive, but it taught such important skills. Simple things like, what do I do when I'm at a military ceremony? What are the honors that I should understand? How should I dress for that occasion? Can I bring my children with me? Some of the very basic questions, but they were afraid to ask. And the reason I can relate to that is because I was that young military wife and there were no resources back when I was young. I found some and I broke some barriers, but it gave me the confidence to say, you know what? She needs to be taken care of first. If you expect, I say she, whoever it is, the spouse, if you expect them to succeed, then you need to provide them with that information as well. We made everything from basic smart cards that told you about the uniform differences across the services to doing some mock comp mock interviews and sessions. Our training classes were full, and we provided them on the uh naval weapons station in Charleston and the airbase.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Which is not nearby. They're like 20 to 30 minutes away from each other.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

That is correct. And when we would go over there, at first we would say, Well, gee, we'll be lucky that we get 10 people in the room. And when you got a full house and people were asking questions, it made you realize the importance of what you were training on. So it's not so much the everyday detail because the military does get that protocol training through their career, uh military protocol, of course. But when you get the do's and don'ts and how to do simple things like go to a military ball, what do I wear? What can I do? There were so many questions, and I feel like we were effective in many arenas. So, and again, the same thing for uh senior spouses. We put together a lot of senior spouse orientations, but it gave them all the opportunity to come together as well. And this would be for the senior leaders, correct?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah. So I want to note something. So we've focused a little bit on taking care of people. You this is not just about the people that were hired, though. This is also about the families and how to make everyone successful. And it seems like you weren't sure how to be successful, so you tried to figure it out. And then along the way, you learned how to share the lessons that you learned. You talked a little bit earlier about confidence and not really having much. How did you, over the course of time, gain that confidence? Because I can see it with you a little bit more as we were getting through this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And I'll tell you that when I was younger, you hit it right on the head. I was very shy. I was very quiet. I played a lot of sports and I was involved in things, but it wasn't something that I needed to stand out or I needed to be the best there. I just wanted to be a part of something that was bigger than myself. And I think that's always been how I am, naturally. When we came to Charleston and I was still somewhat of a young military wife, I joined an organization, a volunteer organization called the Somerville Junior Chamber of Commerce. And there was a gentleman that actually spoke at my retirement that that hit hit it exact for me. His name was Barry Loonham, and he would probably want everybody to know his name. He was a retired lieutenant commander who was a powerhouse with people. He knew how to have an impact. And so, yes, he was probably one of my greatest mentors. He encouraged me to do everything from speak up competitions to take leadership roles. Now, mind you, then my husband was deployed a lot. The children were young, they were in all kinds of sports. But I had the opportunity to serve the chapter in many ways. I led a lot of the projects in Somerville, whether it was putting together a children's fundraiser or if it was the Christmas, the Christmas parade, I became the chapter's management development vice president, which meant I was in charge of putting together planning and executing how to put on a project, how to host an event. We would write these books that were called chairman planning guides, and it's a funny phrase or even stage to think about, but it was a binder. And in that binder was your references on who to contact, who did this project before, where could you get funding. And all of those things, it's funny, we had those binders all lined up on my shelves in protocol because when a new project officer came in, we would hand them a binder that said, We've done this event a couple hundred times. Here are the things that'll help you not do or waste your time doing, these will help you execute it. Do it your way, but here's a guide that really does help. I can't believe 10, 15 years later, that those binders were utilized all the time. So learning that gave me confidence. Once I spent, I want to say 10 or 12 years in the JC organization, I took on roles at the state level and I traveled around the state and I was the management development vice president for the state. And so teaching other chapters, you know, 10, 15 other chapters how to do those processes really gave me confidence because that process worked. And it wasn't a Kathy process, it was processes that I learned from everywhere I was. And it just helped people do a better job putting together if they were in a leadership role. It helped them succeed. So there's nothing more rewarding than watching someone succeed. And you can be that person, you know, at the very back of the room. But when they walk up and and I can't really exp explain what that feeling is like, but it was the same feeling we got when we were in the back of the room and you put together someone's retirement. It's not so much about the person retiring, but I always remembered the faces of the family, the grandparents that traveled so far to come watch this event. And all they remembered is how well they were taken care of and how respected their son or daughter were during their time. So there's so much more to it than just a protocol or even, you know, a Kathy, because I could not ever have done any of what I did without all of the people that I had the chance to do that with.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

It's about I mean, you're hitting it so hard when it comes to taking care of people. It's about taking care of who they are and making them successful. And and the retirements or promotion ceremonies or whatever it is, it's highlighting how successful they are to the audience that's with them, to their support system. And this is, I will say, this is one thing I've seen a huge difference when it comes to military versus civilian um corporate work and all that. A lot of the corporate events that I've been to isn't necessarily always there's very few events where it's about the people. And I I was fortunate enough to work for Southwest, and they were real, really good at taking care of the people and highlighting the people throughout their entire career. But the military, it's like the people, their families, not blood families, but the people who are supporting them in their career at that moment, someone like you. And I think when it comes to taking care of people, it's not just about making sure you respond to emails. It is about achieving. It's about pay or like making sure they get a time card or making sure like it's it's so much more than that. It's it's making sure that they're successful. And I love hearing about those binders because you realized over the course of time, you're like, well, I had to learn this, but why would I make somebody else learn the same thing I had? Why can't I teach them and show them how they can be successful? And then they're already one step closer to where they were or where they need to be. Absolutely. And I think a lot of people miss that. They're like, oh, well, I had to learn too. Why can't they learn the same way I did?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

You know, back when I had some young folks come on loan, because let's feel Face it, um, nobody wants to give up good people to go on up and work in a busy office that you don't have time to do your own training. One of the commitments I made to them when they came on loan is you will still fulfill all your commitments in the squadron, whether that's training, um, TD wise, whatever it is, and we'll work around you, which we did. However, the opportunities that they were able to have in our office enabled them to go back to the squadron, perhaps a little bit more patient. Maybe the me chip wasn't there so much, that they could take on a little bit more responsibility and step up their game. So to me, it was a growth opportunity. You want that person to make master or you want that uh lieutenant to go on, then give them some extra things they're not gonna see in their career field. I feel the same way in the corporate level. Um, I have been out of my position for six years now, and I've had the opportunity because I can't just do nothing. I feel like I still have something to give. So I have done a mirage of things, but what I have found in that level is it is about the people and the successful businesses that I have been acquainted with or I have grown uh to understand all the way up to the CEO level, because I am blessed to have seen enough of that arena. You're not gonna succeed unless you take care of those people. And especially with COVID, uh, everybody learn to be a little bit more resilient. And the things you didn't think you could do from home, you best figure it out because there is no other option. And to me, that was an opportunity for people to say, you know what, I'm not happy where I'm at. I'm gonna go back to school and I'm gonna do this. Yes. And so we saw a huge change, a huge shift in our industry, again, because culture changes over the time. However, the foundation that you provide for people will be there, whether you're military, you're civilian, you're retired. Um, I look at myself and say, I never looked at it as a career. I looked at it as an opportunity to do so many different things all the time. And they always gave me such people say, well, what about rewards? Well, my reward is watching this young staff sergeant bloom and go on. And I could give you so many examples. There was a young uh master sergeant, she was the shyest medical troop I could have ever had in loan. She is now running, she is running for office in her state.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Oh my gosh, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

When I see these things on Facebook, I want to say certain things, and I don't because I'm very old school with what I say and I don't say out there. Um but even when I walked up on the stage at my retirement and there were so many of the people that were on loan to my office and they came. At first I thought, gee, did 400 people show up just to see me walk out the door to get me off that base? It was a reflection time. And I will tell you the greatest gift was all of those young people took something away. Um, I haven't even been on social media, LinkedIn, and in I can't even tell you how many years. And one of the very first uh messages I received was from a young civilian who just happened to be on loan to PA. Uh, she was probably no older than 18 years old, and she came up and shadowed me for I wouldn't say more than a couple of weeks. She wrote me the most beautiful message that said, I am in the public affairs arena and I'm a writer, and this is where I live, and I just had to tell you what an impact you made on me as such a young girl. So for me, this old school girl still getting a note like that from somebody, it's got to have been 18 years ago. But she remembered that. So to me, how you impact people is far more rewarding than any, you know, award that somebody could have given me. I I've got so many memories, and if I could teach anything today, it would be to make people just take a step back and and realize how important it is to give that to to even children. Children need to understand the importance of someone else coming first. It's always service before self and doing all you can today because you may not get that opportunity tomorrow. So yeah, I didn't always have that I'm tired chip or I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

You saw something big, you mentioned it earlier, you saw something bigger than yourself and took that as an opportunity to take care of people. Absolutely. And it sounds like you left a legacy.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

I don't know if a legacy is a good choice of words, but I will tell you it was a very humbling, humbling time when I closed that chapter, but I wouldn't have changed a thing. Uh I met some pretty amazing people, and and I have to say, the spouses of the military leadership, I couldn't say enough about them. I I've seen things that a lot of people never saw or even heard stories about, and for that I will always be grateful. It was a very busy position, and there's not a whole lot of people that would tell you they would want that job. Because when things don't go right, it's a heavy burden. But to me, you take a step back, you make some notes, and you move forward and do it better the next time. And that's kind of how we took every step. I like I told you, I didn't do that job alone, and probably the most favorite part of my entire time in protocol was my partner Dale. Um, Dale has gone on to do bigger and better things as she is, but when you have somebody that you partner with that you can take a step back, you don't even have to be there, and it's still going to get executed because she has the same passion for people and for excellence. And I was very gifted to to have that opportunity to work with her.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

That's awesome. It sounds like you were able to build a great team and you had somebody who you completely trusted.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

You know, I I did. I also have to say thanks to the leadership for giving me that opportunity because there were times that they didn't want to give those people up either, especially when things became difficult to cross the military and Manning was so short. How could we give you somebody? They're needed in the squadron and they don't want to create obstacles. But um, so the team got smaller a couple of times, but we but we all worked together and we made that work. And um, so I'm thankful to the leadership all the way from our our squadron commanders, group commanders, and wing commanders for allowing me. Even our Navy, our mission partners, there were um 62 so many at the weapon station. Naval Weapons Station had several, but you know, when they had somebody in the nuclear power school or somewhere over there in the naval health clinic, and they wanted to have that officer learn a different culture, they gave him to Kathy and Dale. So they would come on board, and what an experience for all of us. Because we just because I was a Navy wife didn't mean I knew everything about the Navy. Things change over all those years as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

I mean, it's a huge like it's a whole like entire thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

It's a different culture, and um, so again, everybody had something to learn, but it's but it's a win-win when you can do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Um so I'd like to rewind a little bit um because you talked about a leader's giving you the opportunity, and from what I remember, the story of how you became chief of protocol is actually pretty unique, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

It is. I was the secretary to the vice commander of the 437th airlift wing, and I sat across the desk from the award-winning Rose Alexander, who's continued even this late in life as a honorary commander and and still is like the focal point for the community. She taught me so many things, and way back before we even got our C-17s, there was a wing commander by the name of Tom Mikolaichek. And when we found out we were gonna receive C-17s at Charleston, everybody was quick to look at Charleston for the showcase command. And she said, Why do we not move Kathy into that job? And so she actually made the suggestion that I become the protocol officer. And at the time I thought, well, what does that mean? And when they came down and said, Well, you're gonna be responsible for all the dignitaries that are gonna come to this command because we're gonna showcase the C-17. People are gonna come here to buy this aircraft. It's gonna be very important. It's gonna be a relationship between Boeing and so many different countries. And I thought, wow, okay. They moved me into an office and I began building a team because I quickly realized I could not do this by myself. The level of responsibility alone, uh, learning to host those dignitaries. And although I had some great skills from being in the command section so many years, I had been in the reserve on the reserve side of the house before that. So I spent five years there, developed some unique skills working for a reserve wing. And when I came to the headquarters as the vice commander secretary, we were very busy. It was a job that I absolutely loved. But they were again decreasing the manning. They were gonna replace me with a military person, and they needed somewhere for me to go. And they said, Well, we don't want her to go too far, so what are we gonna do? And that's how that door opened. From day one, I was given opportunity after opportunity. And so it was, do I move forward? Do I learn this position? And I was hungry. I wanted that to be, I wanted that to be my career. I knew when I took on that role that it was going to be the beginning of a long journey. I quickly learned the amount of work it was going to take. I was given an on-loan international military student officer who was a maintenance officer. And together he and I had to learn how to host foreign dignitaries. Wow. Because they were the first to want to come in and take a look at that C-17. Now, mind you, the project officers that they put on loan were educated in the operational arena to showcase the aircraft, and our role was to do the research and the security of what we could do when they were on the ground. Uh everything from hosting them of where they were gonna stay, what their formalities were on a daily basis, everything to include religious backgrounds. Wow. You have to be very careful. There were some countries where a woman was not allowed on the flight line, so therefore I would have to put someone else out there. But doing your research and learning things. So when I tell you that my job became very detailed, it was because if you wanted it to be successful for the command, which I did, then I needed to do the extra pieces. Um, yes, someone may laugh and say, Really, you pre-positioned a goodie bag or a muffin in their room. I knew exactly what they ate, what they drank, what they could not have, what they would frown upon if you gave them a memento because everybody wants to provide a thank you. Well, there are some countries that there are formalities that you have to understand in order to respect their culture. And it was the same for ours. So I was that liaison. I was the liaison between Charleston, our headquarters, um, the Boeing people that were equally as hungry to understand the people coming to visit. And I would get these amazing young officers in charge that would speak on behalf of their bosses and their groups coming. So it was key that our relationships were good. So at the end of the day, if I put a plate of food in that project officer or on loan officer traveling with them, those are things that we did behind the scenes because it made all the difference. They don't always get time to eat, or they don't always get time to go to the gym. So we would do whatever we had to do to help facilitate a successful visit. Um, to me, that would be no different in a corporate industry. You're bringing in somebody to your company. How do you want that client to walk away? They're gonna know your company, they're coming here to see it. What they're gonna remember is the people, they're gonna remember someone who took care of them, they're gonna remember how they felt when they left. I want to go back there. Why did you want to go back there? Because that company's great? No, because the people in that company are great. So to me, there's a lot of success globally, but it begins with some pretty basic understanding.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

How did you teach the people that were on your team the bigger picture? Because I imagine it's hard to be like, hey, we need to get this specific snack, but unfortunately we can't get it at this grocery store. We have to go off base and get it from this grocery store because that's all they can eat. And I imagine that was a moment where the person was probably like, seriously, can we get them something else?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

I tried to get them to understand how they would feel. Tried to get them to say, okay, you're gonna host somebody at your house for dinner or whatever it is you're doing. It's not about what you eat or what you do. Someone walks in and you offer them something to drink, you already know what they drink. I made it a point for the people in my office to know what each other liked or didn't like.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Like each other in the office.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Sure. We always had things in our office. You know, we we would laugh about it. We were the go-to place if we were hungry. People are like, Protocol doesn't have time to eat. Well, we did. Um again, it goes back to the basics of knowing what you you really do need to respect the person next to you, and you need to understand their lifestyle or their culture. You know, when I had people on loan in my office, I told you from medical. I had maintenance, I had loadmasters, I had pilots, I had such a wide group, but they were the best of the best together because they learned to understand what went on outside their AFSC. And that is so important. It is. It it really is because people are saying, well, we're in the maintenance group, we do everything. I'm in the med group, we're so busy, you have no idea. But they got to understand and grow something bigger than themselves. And they learned to do other things. Um, you know, to me, we had a lot of in-house things, and I think every office has those. When people left or had it was time for them to go back because they were only on loan to me for a year. People say, Well, no one ever wants to leave, Kathy. I say thank you, is all I can say to that, because you don't want someone to want to leave. I want to send them back because it's more important for you to go back. And you'll thank me later. You may not thank me now, but you do need to go back. And I knew that when I gained them. People are like, Kathy, you have to give them back. I realize that their job is very important. But the tools they're gonna learn here in this environment are gonna set the stage for something for them bigger and better later. It may or may not be in the military, but they're gonna develop some very unique skills. And I sent everybody to school. One of the other C-17 pilots that was on loan to me, uh, shift gears, and she went into the reserve wing. And then shortly after that, um, she had gone uh into private industry and she's extremely successful. Well, I remember when I got the call, and it was after we had hosted a presidential visit, which we did a lot of presidential arrivals, and that was probably one of the most difficult things to teach people because there are some challenging situations that come with that. And I tried to remind them it's not about us, they have their own motorcades, they have their own way of doing business, we just take a step back and support. However, this young lady was a powerhouse, she was big, bright, beautiful at everything she did, and I knew she would succeed no matter where she went. I got a phone call that said, Hey, Kath, we'd like you to come up for the inauguration in DC. We'd like you to be on the protocol team. And I said, You know, that would be wonderful, but I have a young lady in my office that I would love to give this opportunity to because she just would be amazing. And I would love for her to do that. And they said, Well, we'd like you to think about this because we really would like to have you. Well, I sent her up there and she did such an amazing job, and I knew everybody would just love having her there because of her, it wasn't just her protocol experience and her background in military, it was the way she took care of people in general. She had a very natural ability to be successful. She went to work for the Smithsonian shortly. Oh, that's so cool. But when you see something in people, yeah, you have to open that door for them. I love it. And that's kind of how I felt. When I had the chance to go to school, and I told you I had the opportunity to do an awful lot of training, and when you went through when someone said, Well, what does your resume look like? And I said, Well, I probably have three pages of training classes that nobody cares about or will understand. However, the most rewarding school for me is when the wing commander signed off on spending the money to invest in me to allow me to go to the Protocol School of Washington and DC. It's a school where you go in and it's a it's a very difficult school. It's not a training. You are in there, they are videoing you, they are listening to what comes out of your mouth. When you teach something as simple as dine like a dignitary, laugh if you want to, but you go to a corporate business dinner, and anybody will tell you that could make or break any kind of business relationship. I didn't really realize what that meant until I did a couple dozen of those. And you realize that etiquette is so important and what you say is even more important. So I loved teaching that course. When I graduated from that course, you'd have thought I just finished some doctorate because it gave me my license. And one of the things they said is now you can go start your own business. And of course, I traveled back, me and Kathy saying, I don't want to start my own business. I want to utilize everything I just learned and take everything at Charleston and just raise the bar a little bit more. I love it. And I did, I really feel like I did. I have that library of resources and I've gone back to it over the years for several different reasons. But I will tell you, the most important thing I learned there was about myself. I gained that confidence. I watched those videos, I listened to myself speak, and I thought, man, this girl's crazy. She loves this stuff. And I did. I loved it. Um, and I again I was fortunate enough for every single wing commander that I had the opportunity to serve under. They really did listen. They listened when things weren't so great. They listened when I would go in and have to have a conversation that maybe wasn't so important to everybody else. Um, but it made a difference. It made a difference on the outcome and it impacted a lot of things. So um, yeah, I had a lot of stressful times, but I also had more rewarding times, and I've shared so many of those with you.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Mm-hmm. I I love hearing these stories, and I love your leadership style and how you've approached every situation. I guess my next question would be what is a situation that you were in that was really, really tough to overcome, and how did you overcome it?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

It's probably not an easy subject for me to talk about, um, because again, it goes back to people. I will tell you that it was in a very important day. It was a change of command for uh 437th airlift wing commander, and I was going through some pretty trying times at home. Um, my parents were very sick, and although I had the best sister in the world that was taking care of everything at home, I wanted to be there as well. And so I got on that plane, of course, and went right home. And so I was gone through a period of time. Um, but that was very challenging for Kathy. And if that can make sense to anybody, your heart is very heavy because family comes first. I knew that the position that my mom was in, that she if she could have woke up, she would have told me to go back to business because she knew that I loved what I did. Um but I couldn't. I stayed right there on her side, uh, sat on that bedside 14 days. And um, but but I'll tell you that it's a reflection time as well, because it although it was challenging to me, no one else knew that. And I made sure that no one else knew that. And again, that goes back to the person that was back home running things, and that would have been Dale. Um, we were such a phenomenal team, and I encoura I encourage people that when you're in a leadership role, it's not about you. And I always use that old slogan, what is that? Um team, together everyone achieves more.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

And um you can achieve anything you want to, and you don't have to physically be there as long as you can train and educate your team and fill them with the knowledge that they can execute without you. And so for me, those are those are truly uh reflection and an important time. It was it was challenging, and anybody that knew me knew how hard that was for me to just get on that plane and and leave because I had a job to do. And and although the command would never have said, Are you kidding, Kathy? We want you to stay. No, they you know, they would want me to be with my family. But when you put together events and you spend hours and hours and weeks and months and planning things and you put things together, um, it's not necessarily how well you plan, it's how well you execute change. And so for me, that was a very good lesson in how I execute change. So when people say you're very balanced, I am. I think I'm very balanced, but I'm balanced because I know how to prioritize. It's not that I know how to multitask better because multitasking isn't always the answer. You can't do five things well because you can't give them 100%. But it's how you prioritize those events and do each one of those things and realize probably the most important part of prioritizing is how well you'll execute a backup plan because they're coming.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah. Wow, I imagine that was really hard and like it it must have in a way felt like a relief to have someone like Dale so you could absolutely jump on a plane as as you needed to.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Absolutely it was. And and again, when I tell you that success people say, Well, I made it to this or I'm in charge of this. Well, how'd you get there? So to me, if you have that in your rearview mirror, make sure you always look because you want to go forward, but don't ever forget where you came from.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

And always appreciate the people that do that and are there for you when you need it.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

It's a very important thing, and again, I go back to teaching children. I teach youth catechism, and I've been teaching that since my children were little. And people say, Well, five-year-olds don't listen. How do you keep their attention? And I said, Well, neither do adults sometimes. But when you have a classroom of children and you fill their heads with different things, it doesn't matter if it's just one hour a day. They're gonna remember something. It may be the smallest thing. But I've I have so much joy in teaching those children because I know that as those children grow, they're gonna come back and they're gonna remember something. And so for me, that was a that was a that's a personal thing. You know, they become eight and ten years old and they walk by me in church and go, Miss Kathy, there's my mom, that was my teacher. That was my teacher. It's a very small thing, but it's impact. Same thing with sports. Doesn't matter what the sports are. I never had the greatest athletes on my team, but at the end of the day, we fought we won. How'd that happen? How does that happen when you don't have the best batters or you don't have the best runners on the team? It happens because you bring people together and you build teams. And so that was my it's been like that since I can't even I don't I don't even know. I don't want to go back that. I'm having a birthday soon, so I don't want to go back that far and realize how old I am, and sometimes it takes that long to get there. But um I was blessed. There's no doubt I was blessed, and there were a lot of doors open, and every time that door opened, I walked through and said, Okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Well, you took you went in the door and took the room as much as you could. You talked about taking opportunities. It's not just people giving you opportunities, it's about what you do with those opportunities and what you build around you. Absolutely. And that's what you did. You completely built a team, a life, care, uh place, a safety, it sounds like a safety net as well as a safety net for other people. Uh you built a whole culture for the people surrounding you that gave them an opportunity to grow.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

There were a lot of times that people would come to me and say, I worked on this event. Can you help me write this up so that we can get this person, this award? And I would try to change that a little bit and say, you know, it's not really about the award. It's about how they performed when they were working on that event. Put that in their evaluation. Put that note in there about their leadership and what they're ready for. Because you're gonna go back and you're gonna look at that award, and I'm not disrespecting awards, I know they're important. I have numerous accolades, but at the end of the day, that accolade just opened another door for me. That was an when I got something that recognized good work, all that said to me was, okay, Kath, it's time to take on a little bit more responsibility, step up your game a little bit. So I tried to do that in my office with my folks. I I know that I did make sure that um I wrote them well, but I also said this person needs or is ready for a lot more. So challenge them. And so I tried to do that even when they were in my office and on loan. People are saying, Kathy, are you gonna be out there on the flight and line? No, I'm sending so-and-so. Well, what if? Well, they know everything I know. Same thing if I wasn't in the office. We were close enough to the command doors that they would walk down. So in that case, it's like any corporate leader walking into your office. If you're not there to answer the question, is it gonna be, oh, I'm sorry, ma'am, sir, we can't answer that. Kathy's not here. We were never, I never taught them to operate that. I'm not gonna be here. Here's what you need if they walk in. Nine times out of ten, they walked in. How good do you think that felt to that young person being able to answer?

SPEAKER_01 49:26

So much confidence, absolutely so so empowered. Um I think that is probably one of the most critical things to do for growth.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Absolutely it is. But those aren't things they're gonna understand at the time. They're like, you want me to do what? Yes, I do. But again, it's a confidence builder, not just in your uniform. It's gonna help you as a mom or a dad or in whatever job you take on. It's those are just basic life skills that you have to fulfill that chip for people. You go on and go to school and you're trying to balance all of these things that people do because now everything is what are your certifications? What do you have to offer my company? Yep. So you have to be ready with leadership skills. And so to me, if I could give somebody just a little bit more preparation to go to the next step in their life, that's a win-win. I know my responsibility as the chief of protocol was to execute ceremonial events and make sure all the details were covered. And I did that. I feel like we did that to the best of our knowledge and the best of our ability, but there's always something more that someone could take away from that event. And they did.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

And it's not, I I like what you're describing because it's not just about the job. It's not just about the result of the job. It's not, it is everything surrounding this. And I want to reiterate this to the audience. When you take on a leadership role or any role, recognize that it's not just about the role. It's about the people, it's about how you make people feel. It's about it's everything surrounding it. Yes, it's the job too. You have to get it done, but it's not just about that.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

I know that there's a lot of conversation out there about well, you can't say this and you can't say that in the job. Um, you're gonna hurt feelings, you're gonna, well, that didn't exist in our office because we may have hurt feelings, but it was more about being truthful, truthful. But again, that goes back to confidence. Are you strong enough to stand up to somebody and say that is not the right thing to do? It's not that you're hurting somebody's feelings or you're afraid that someone's gonna do something drastic. You have to have confidence to always do the right thing. When no one is looking is when it's gonna matter most. From a safety perspective, from a leadership perspective, from a being a parent perspective. Parents can be overruled by kids who just aren't gonna, you know, listen. So to me, everyday life skills happen. Um, and if you can learn a little bit more in the position that you're put in and you can take those skills to work for you, that's important.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

It is, it's very important. Uh we are getting close to the end of our time, but I'd like to do one final question. Uh if there is one piece of advice that you could give to uh emerging leader or somebody who's just taken on their first team, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 52:26

I would have to say you have to be a good listener. Lots of people come in and it's not so much that they're ready to make change, because that's normally what leadership comes in and does say is I'm not here to change things. However, it seems like that happens inevitably. But if you listen to people and really listen to them, you're gonna have a greater impact for the long haul, if that makes sense. Um, you have to bring people together, and that is a very difficult thing to do sometimes, and in some industries. Yes, I would have to say being a good listener.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

That's really good. I like it. I like it a lot. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on the show. I have always loved talking with you. I'm so glad you were open to coming on and sharing your story and some advice. And I know that the audience out there that's listening uh will take away some really good information and some good advice, lessons learned, and inspiration as well, and go grow their leadership skills as well as their own personal skills.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

I don't even know how to say thank you to you for giving me this opportunity at first. I thought who was gonna want to listen many years after I closed that chapter. But like I said, those skills continue. It doesn't matter where you are in life. And so to you, I say thank you for letting me share those beautiful memories. And I do hope that someone listens and that it teaches somebody something about themselves. And um this was great. This was great.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Thank you again.