Lead Into It
Lead Into It is your go-to podcast for real, actionable leadership insights—no title required. Whether you're leading a team, a project, or just yourself, host Sara Greco brings you powerful conversations with leaders from corporate, nonprofit, hospitality, the U.S. military, and beyond. Each episode delivers tactical tools, fresh perspectives, and lasting inspiration to help you lead with confidence in your career and life.
Because leadership isn’t about a title—it’s about action.
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Lead Into It
48: Leading from the Inside Out: Mindset Coaching with Margaret "MJ" Jennings
Ever wonder why some leadership situations hit you harder than they should? Or why feedback sometimes feels way bigger than it is? It might be your mindset foundation — and it could be ready for a reset.
In today’s episode, mindset coach Margaret "MJ" Jennings joins me to talk about the mental side of leadership — the 95% we don’t always see but definitely feel. We dig into how old patterns show up in your leadership, how to shift your mindset, and why what you model matters even more than what you say.
If you’re ready to lead with more clarity, resilience, and real presence — this conversation is for you.
Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.
Excited to be back with you!
You're listening to episode 48 of the Lead Into it podcast. Hey, and welcome back to Lead Into it. I'm your host, sarah Greco, and today's conversation is one that's really going to stick with you. We're diving into something that doesn't get talked about a lot when it comes to leadership, and that is mindset coaching.
Speaker 1:My guest today is MJ, and she brings such a unique perspective with her background in athletics coaching especially hockey and how she now helps leaders and others level up their mental game. You'll hear MJ talk about why 95% of performance is actually mental yes, 95% and how shifting your mindset is kind of like upgrading your brain's operating system. We talk about emotions as clues, self-awareness as a superpower, and what it looks like when you actually align your values with how you show up every day. Plus, mj shares some awesome sports techniques that you can apply to leadership things like visualization, mental warmups and cooldowns, and how anchoring yourself can help you stay steady when things get tough. If you've ever felt like you're on the edge of burnout, struggling with feedback or just wondering how to grow into the leader that you know you can be, this episode's for you. Let's get into it. Well, thanks, mj, for coming on the show. I'm excited to have you on Lead Into it and to talk to you a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really excited to be here, looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 1:So a couple of weeks ago I know we did like a introduction call and I loved how you were talking about mindset and mindset coaching and kind of how that worked Something that I haven't had a chance to dive into. So I'm excited to hear about your expertise and kind of bring it to the show so that maybe other people can learn from it and maybe apply it to you know, their life, their work, wherever it's applicable for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a massive component of our performance, but you're right often overlooked in favor of other things.
Speaker 1:Often just, you know, like we're going for mindset. We're like yeah, what is mindset? What does that mean? So excited to dive a little bit more into that with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, me too, me too, for sure.
Speaker 1:So I'd love to kind of hear how you kind of got to this place of mindset coaching with what you do now and a little bit of that journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, my coaching origins were in athletics, so I coached in sports, most notably hockey, for many years, university level, provincial level, did some stuff with the national program before I transitioned into leadership coaching and even when I was coaching athletes, at that time I was very aware of the power that the mind carried in terms of performance, and there's a lot of studies to back it up.
Speaker 2:You know, 95% of our performance is mental, and especially in something like athletics, I would witness it and, first of all, experience it myself in my playing days prior to coaching, but witness it a lot with the athletes I was supporting in terms of the ones who had the most success and sustainability in their performance, had a pretty good mindset and were able to mentally perform sustainably over time as well. So I've always had this sense and this understanding that the mind is really what carries so much power and influence over how we show up in the world, and I was excited to be able to take that into different avenues, whether it's again sports or the world of work or the world of entrepreneurship. At the end of the day, it's our mind that runs the show and we need to learn how to program it so that it functions in a bit more of a self-supportive way.
Speaker 1:Programming I like that word a lot. So programming your mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the analogy I'll often use is like, when you think of the mind, it's kind of the operating system of the brain Right, and often that operating system is outdated, like it's based on beliefs and understandings that were formed years and years ago, and sometimes we spend our whole lives kind of at the mercy of that operating system.
Speaker 2:Well, like this is just how it is and, I think, when we can understand that we are the programmer right. So yes, the operating system runs the show, but we have the capacity to program it in different ways, to kind of upgrade it to better serve us. I think there's a lot of power in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so instead of a Windows Vista, we're like going to Windows 10 or whatever we're at right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever number we're at, but yeah, absolutely, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1:So, when you talk about programming, do you mind going through the process of, like how you start figuring out, like where your mindset is at and how to level it up in a way, Because leveling up it might be, is that the correct term you could use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's totally a term that you could use, I think. Yeah, I think a lot of it starts, I mean and this is a term that we preached a lot with the company I used to work with and I firmly believe in it awareness comes before intelligence. So I think the first step for most of us is just understanding like, what is that operating system right?
Speaker 2:Like what are beliefs that are driving the actions that I'm taking and the decisions that I'm making in my day to day life, and where are those decisions supporting me? But also where are some of those decisions maybe holding me back? And where they're holding me back, that's where we want to get in and start to get curious, right? Okay, well, what is the belief, and is it really true? And if it's not, kind of what can I believe instead to help get myself to where I want to be?
Speaker 1:That's so interesting because I imagine that it's shocking, as people dive deeper into learning about their self-awareness, what that belief actually is that's holding them back, because it's not something that they think about on the regular, but their body reacts to it on the regular, and so it's just neural pathways that are like really the pathways that are like really clear, and then you're trying to drive new neural pathways to create a different type of awareness and belief system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, and ultimately, at the end of the day, like the brain is driven to make decisions without our conscious awareness, right? So 95% of the decisions that we make happen on autopilot, so we're not consciously aware of them, and it will stay that way for the entirety of our lives unless we use kind of that 5% of consciousness to get under the hood and look and kind of understand what's going on in order to again address it or maybe change it or adjust it, moving forward.
Speaker 1:So you talked about awareness and how do you start getting into that 5% Like what would be like step two if awareness is step one?
Speaker 2:So awareness is a big step. I would say like even to start at that point right, how do we become aware?
Speaker 2:Um and I think, again, a lot of it is just getting curious about why we act the way we do, and the entry point for our awareness is our emotions. So any scenario in life that puts us in and typically we use like a negative emotion, that's the entry point, right. So if I'm stressed or frustrated, particularly in a situation that doesn't necessarily warrant that emotion, right, like, feeling stressed in this does not support me. Yet I feel it Taking that emotion and saying, okay, like for me to feel stressed in this situation, what might be true about me or this situation, right. And I think when we go in that way, we can kind of get to what that limiting belief might be and then we can start to question it and challenge it.
Speaker 2:I think most of us have quote unquote limiting beliefs from when we're younger, right. We're learned, like we learn at a young age, to please other people, to prioritize other people's needs over our own, because we rely on other people for our own survival and security, right. So, yeah, it's in our best interest to not anger the people that we rely on for, like our sustenance, to take care of us, to clothe us, to provide for us.
Speaker 2:But again, that seed right of people pleasing Over time when we reach a certain point in our life. It was a strategy that kept us safe and really benefited us. But sometimes and oftentimes, when we reach a point in our life where we want to go and grow to bigger and better things, it becomes this thing that's holding us back. But again, I think the entry point is just where are those negative emotions showing up? For me and for me to feel this emotional response to this situation? What might be the belief? Right, the belief might be it's not safe for me to do something that's going to upset someone else, or how I feel is not as important as how other people feel. And then it's saying well, is that really true? And if not, why? Right To be able to give that belief a greater context or a more objective lens, to kind of analyze the situation from.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and I I imagine that, as leaders, a lot of these moments because there's so many different people, dynamics happening and interpersonal communications and relationships that a lot of these moments you have, you're like why am I reacting this way to feedback, to a task being done to me, like there's so many different moments where you subconsciously have these reactions. How do you help maneuver through those as you become more self-aware and observe?
Speaker 2:I think the first step is acknowledging that your emotion is not a fact, and even that your thoughts are not a fact, because, again, right, if we don't take the time to consider it, it feels like a fact. Right, I feel this way and this feeling is predicated on the truth, and I think, when we start to get curious about it, it takes a big weight off of our shoulders to understand that our emotional response to something is not necessarily the truth, it's just based on an interpretation that we have programmed. And I think even that, for people, is really freeing, because then it opens up the door for us to interpret it differently, even just to embrace that there's another potential interpretation. Right, like, I've received constructive feedback and I feel so angry and offended. And why? Why do I feel that way? Well, because I need to be perfect to be good enough.
Speaker 2:But is that really true from my adult self, when I look at the situation like is that what I would tell someone else that I love? That you have to be perfect or you're not? No, of course not, because as humans, we're flawed and it's normal to, and you know what the feedback is going to be a great opportunity for growth for me, but I think it's opening the door to have those reframing conversations with ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yes, when you have those reframing conversations, sometimes you're like a lot of back and forth. Like in my brain I'm like this conversation is just going way too long. Like in my brain I'm like this conversation is just going way too long.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess what is a situation that you've seen either regularly among people or like maybe your clients, that are like here's how these conversations kind of play out and here's how to be the best version of yourself or who you want to be, based on what your mindset could be.
Speaker 2:So I would say one that I see a lot with leaders that's a common challenge is if they're in a position where their values, right, and what they believe is most important in their heart of hearts doesn't align with their leadership's values and what's important to them, and that can cause a lot of inner turmoil, right, Because it's like, well, I truly believe this, this is the impact I want to have. Yet I'm being negatively impacted by this and the irony is, when we get fixated on the leaders and that misalignment and the frustrations with how they're acting and the way they're doing things, it pulls us out of alignment with our own values.
Speaker 2:we end up angry and frustrated and annoyed and we're not able to show up as our true selves, right? So like sometimes I'll use the analogy because that one's so common Like, sometimes I'll use the analogy of like, if you think of work as a garden, right, and it's like a garden has flowers and a garden has weeds, and we can become really fixated on the weeds and we want to get rid of all the weeds and we want it to be a weedless garden and the weeds are a threat. So now we're fixated on it and we're staring and we're waiting for, like, we're waiting for them to come up from the ground, but we're ignoring the flowers and therefore the flowers die because we're not planting the seeds, we're not caring for those seeds, and that's the whole point of having a garden anyways, right? So the weeds are inevitable. It's not that we should ignore them. I think it's understanding. You can't weed the sacrifice of planting the seeds and caring for the flowers and finding that balance, cause I think that happens a lot, right.
Speaker 2:We get like we are fixated on those weeds. We become like master weed noticers and finding ways to get rid of them, but at the expense. When we're only focused on that is pretty great personally and then also within the team.
Speaker 1:And I love that analogy, first off because it's very visible of how you can describe it. And then when it comes to values. I think when we have those interpersonal conversations or the relationships with our leaders, it's hard to figure out why you are so frustrated with them and I do agree, a lot of times it is with the values not necessarily aligning. So you do fixate on, like, well, this is just frustrating, and then you focus on the frustrations and nothing else will get done because you're like but I don't understand why they're not focused on a, we should be focused on B. And I have found, through conversations of like, through my clients and through my peers and colleagues, that this is where turmoil really builds in an organization, where it's like well, why I don't think we should focus on this, we should be focusing on this.
Speaker 1:Um, and the way that you're describing it, it kind of emphasizes like where we do have control in a way, because there's a lot of things that as leaders, as employees, we don't have control over, and that's okay. As leaders, as employees, we don't have control over, and that's okay. So where can we focus our control, would you say. That also is a part of the mindset mentality type thing.
Speaker 2:Massive, massive right. Like it is so easy to get caught up in all of the things we can't control. Yet the emotion that comes from being in that, especially if it's something that we don't agree with, is anxiety and frustration and overwhelm or helplessness, because I'm focused on something that I cannot affect change to right and I'm focusing on how it's impacting me. I think part of it is understanding again the brain from an evolutionary perspective. Like it's designed to keep us safe and alive, so it's naturally inclined to look for the dangers and the threats. Right, oh, this doesn't align, but understanding like that's an evolutionary thing, because once upon a time, like there might be a tiger behind that tree and your life really depended on that.
Speaker 2:But now, in the current space and time, yes, like their values may not align, but it's not threatening my actual life.
Speaker 2:And is it the best place for me to put my time and energy? Because I cannot complain and problem solve at the same time, I cannot be in survival and be creative at the same time. Like I am either choosing to fire this part of my brain or this one and there is a cost on either side, right? So I think again this notion of understanding at the end of the day, our brain is a cost on either side, right? So I think again this notion of understanding at the end of the day, our brain is a biological function of the body, right? It is not. Um, it is not this end-all be-all that knows all of the truths, and I think, much like you know, our stomach, our digestive system, is a biological function of the body. What we eat impacts how our stomach functions, what we think, what we reinforce, how we direct our focus and energy and attention over time, just how our brain functions in the same way, right, and I think it's just helping people understand that and look at the brain in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can't remember where I've heard this, but when we receive feedback, it's the same reaction where it's like a tiger attacking us. So our body's like in a visceral reaction of like oh my gosh, constructive feedback, I might die. And until you recognize that that's what your body's feeling, you're like, oh why am I so overwhelmed? And I'm so like just cringing right now. So, once you're aware of it, you're able to maneuver through it and be like okay, well, let me actually listen to this with my creative mind, my open-mindedness, like I'm, my life is actually fine, I'm. This isn't a tiger, this is just. I had a mistype in my email Like, yeah, right, and uh, just creating that mindset so that you can be your best self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to go back to the sports part of your story a little bit, because I'd be curious to hear how the mindset, how you saw it, impact the players that you were either coaching or working with, and how that kind of plays into what you do today, because I remember basketball in high school and I was not the greatest player coaching or working with and how that kind of plays into what you do today, because, uh, I remember basketball in high school and I was not the greatest player at all, um, but like I remember it was like it's all about visualization. Michael Jordan visualized all his games and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I will say, like that's something I wish I could have done better in high school. But as we go into, this mindset is a great thing, yeah, but kind of like with your background, what did you see was possible and why is that important?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. I think a few things like visualization. Yes, absolutely, and it's. It's funny because often in the work that I do with clients, I do liken it to the sports training and coaching and athletics, because essentially what we're doing is we're training the brain. Right, we're trying to work with the brain to strengthen it, to make it more resilient, to allow it to be more self-supportive, to just strengthen it in productive ways. I would say.
Speaker 2:Even what we've just talked on, like that was a huge part of the mental performance in sport is focusing on what you can control versus what you can't. Right, I can't control the opposition, I can't control the referees, I can't control parents in the stands or even, to an extent, what my coaches say, whether they play me or not, like I can control what happens the next shift when my skates hit the ice and I want my mind to be where my feet are. And I think that as well, right, when we talk about performance, our brain tends to drift into the past or travel into the future quite often Because, again, it's trying to call on past examples to predict what's going to happen in the future for our own safety and well-being sometimes well, sometimes not well and then it's trying to anticipate what's going to happen because it wants us to be prepared. But one of the phrases I love is this notion of, like you know, depression is when our mind is in the past, anxiety is when our mind is in the future and peace is found in the present moment. So it's not that our mind shouldn't go there, but I think too often our minds live there.
Speaker 2:So if you talk about sports, right, I think the athletes who maybe made a mistake and came to the bench and were ruminating on the mistake and beating themselves up about the mistake and, frustrated about the mistake, they would go out for the next shift and, guess what? They would make more mistakes versus the ones who were able to just move on and play the game, shift by shift or play by play. I think there's a lot of power to that, and even as a leader or as an entrepreneur, like being where my feet are. But so of course, we take time out to strategically plan and we have the vision board and we picture ourselves doing hard things and having success, but ultimately, to be in the present moment, I think take some conscious, deliberate effort to connect ourselves with that and keep ourselves connected to it.
Speaker 1:So how, what are some tactics to kind of keep us connected to the present, so that we can stay where our feet are?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I mean and again this is with athletes, but also in the professional side the notion of setting intention statements. So, as I'm going into doing something right, being really deliberate, so rather than letting my brain take me where I want to, providing my brain some guidance, right and clarity on what it is that I want to focus on, where it is I want to improve.
Speaker 2:I think giving ourself that guidance is really helpful. And then, in terms of in competition, one of the big things was something like anchoring, which is. It could be a word, it could be some sort of movement. Sometimes people would write a word or like, put a dot on their racket or their, their equipment or their arm and doing like again this positive visualization of things going well, right, me performing well, me being confident, and connecting it with that visual or that word as a way that in the moment, right, if something goes sideways, something to connect me back to the present moment and to the positive frame of mind. Because I think one of the biggest challenges right Is is again going back to like if I get constructive feedback and my response is like, oh my God, I'm going to die, like the heart rate elevates right, like we have this physiological response. I think part of it is having realistic expectations for ourselves, because mindset coaching is not about never feeling upset or afraid or scared.
Speaker 2:Like we can't change that automatic like the automatic reaction that we have physiologically, but there's that space to choose our response. Once we acknowledge it Right and I think that's the challenge is okay. My heart rate's elevated and I can either like jump on this wave and ride it out and it becomes a big thing, or I can let this wave pass and then choose how I want to respond to the situation.
Speaker 1:And I love hearing about how sports players do it, kind of ground themselves in that way, because I imagine the same technique can be applied for the feedback session where it's like this is my word, like commit or humble or whatever that word could be, or if it's a dot on your notebook that you reflect on, like this is what makes me grow. Bringing that back to yourself makes you take a pause to reflect on who you want to be. What is the goal of who I want to be? Does this fit into that goal? Does this fit that persona of that future, that intention of who I want to be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and I think that's a huge thing too, right, and again with leaders or anyone, I think we can get really caught up in the sacrifice of the important for the urgent right, like that's good. So-and-so. Everybody needs all of this stuff, and that's where I think something like anchoring is great, because it's our way of making sure that we stay plugged in to the important right, and we don't get caught up down a path that's actually taking us away from that and actually.
Speaker 2:So. Two other things actually from the world of sports. I did a presentation the other week and there were a few things that resonated with people. I think the other thing from the world of sports, when we talk about mindset, is this notion of failure being the starting point. When we talk about mindset, is this notion of, like failure being the starting point. I think when we're entrepreneurs or when we're leaders or we're new to the position, again talking about realistic expectations, like we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to have all of the answers, figure out all the solutions, solve all of the problems, and I think having that unrealistic expectation often hurts us more than helps us, because it puts us right in this survival mode where our mental, our emotional and our mental resources are limited, Like they're cut off.
Speaker 2:Whereas if I stay in curiosity and I stay realistic with my expectations and I look at something going wrong not as a reflection of my failure but like an inevitable part of growing in the role, I can stay curious. So my mind stays open, my emotions stay open. I'm going to have access to more of that creativity and innovation to solve the problems.
Speaker 2:And you know, when I started a sport much like you I'm sure like the first time I stepped on the ice I fell and then I got up and then I fell and then I got up and then I fell, and then I got up and then I fell like, and it's, there's a humility that comes with understanding, Like we're all crap at something until we practice enough and learn enough to get progressively better over time, and I think that's really important. Um, the other one is the notion of the warmup and a cool down, which, again, as a leader, I know there's a lot of leaders in like the back to back meetings all day. They get out of bed. What do they do? And not even out of bed, they grab this right. Oh, all these emails, oh, I got to get back to these people At the end of the day again on the phone looking through things.
Speaker 2:And if you think about an athlete in terms of their performance, if they were never to warm up or cool down, what would it do to their performance versus the role that a warm up and cool down plays? Yeah, Like I'm curious, from your perspective, what do you see as the value of having kind of that mental warm up and that mental cool down to start your day and end your day?
Speaker 1:I love all of this and I keep talking about the things I love, but I think this is so applicable for leaders and supervisors as they go through it. One talking about failure, I think as humans, even we try to be perfect and we're also like well, this is my goal, I'm already going to be good at it, and then you forget that you actually have to like fail every once in a while in order to become better. Like failing is a step in the right direction. But we don't like that feeling of failure, so we're like well, nevermind, maybe I'm just not good at it. And if you give up too quickly, then you don't end up actually growing upon yourself and leadership. We don't think like people who are in leaders or supervisory roles or even those that are just project I mean not just, but project managing there's a lot of failure that goes along with it, because every situation is unique, every dynamic is unique. You go through the day to day and you try to do the best that you can, which is how you ground yourself, but you're going to inevitably make mistakes, make people mad, send out the wrong email, like there's just a lot of things that, no matter how hard you try, you're going to make mistakes, and so it's understanding the human part of it and how, as humans, we're going to fail and just bouncing back from that in some way shape or form.
Speaker 1:And then, when it comes to warm up and cool down, I love that you mentioned that. I never thought about that as a leader, but I wonder if applying that mentality would be good to prevent burnout as we are seeing this. And the reason I also find it interesting is because this almost has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It has everything to do with what we're talking about. I am following this Broadway actress on Instagram and so she talks about her warm-ups before the show and I was like that makes sense. Like you need to warm up your voice, your body, all the things, but then, while she's taking off all of her makeup, all of her costume stuff, she's talking about her cool-down. I was like I never even. I just thought they were done like cooling down, stretching, whatever, but with your voice, like she's literally cooling down her voice. So if we're applying this in sports, we're applying this to ways that we're using our body and our mind. Leadership should be a part of that. Managing, working, just working in general should be part of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because ultimately, regardless of the field, we're talking about performance, right, we're talking about how do I optimize and sustain my performance.
Speaker 2:So, sports, of course, the performative part is a little more noticeable and evident in terms of the physical.
Speaker 2:But as a leader like I am tasked with performing in my role as a leader, right, and I think I mean that one in particular is really resonated with me, because, like, if an athlete did not warm up to prepare, like mentally and physically right, they're stepping in, they're going to be more prone to injury.
Speaker 2:Right, like, mentally, it's going to take them the first part of the actual competition to get themselves going. And then, without the cool down as well, right, like we, when we don't cool down our body, our body doesn't shut off, and we see that a lot with leaders too. Right, like, if I don't have an end to my day, I can bring my work frustrations and just my train of thought being fixated on work into home and that can cause issues like personally and interrelationship wise with, like, family. So I think there's a lot of benefit to looking to do that and I think that's the neat thing about sports is that it really is about optimizing performance. Like, how do we take the human mind and body and make it as effective and efficient as possible? Yet in the world of work we don't really think about that right. We don't think like how do I take this employee?
Speaker 2:and actually promote and support their human performance in the role.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's interesting that you go, that you went that way, because I'd be curious as a leader like you see other people like how do you maximize your team's performance? How do you help them become the best version of themselves and create the space in which they feel like they can warm up, they can cool down, they can fail, have the psychological safety in that space to feel like they can make mistakes and grow from that?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and it's fascinating you say that because I think again in the world of sports, coaches will think about that for their athletes, but they're not necessarily thinking about it for themselves.
Speaker 2:And there's a cost on that right, because as the leader, you really are setting the tone, like you're not just words, but your actions and the way you're showing up really impacts the team's behavior, and I think there's more needed support for that right. So not just how do you optimize the athletes, but how do you optimize your own performance as a coach and actually understand the importance of that?
Speaker 1:And in the world that we're in today and I'll say this speaking as a military member there's a big dynamic where it's first to be in the office, last to leave, like leaders eat last, which is there's part of that.
Speaker 1:That's very true. But also, when you set that tone, sometimes the people that you lead see that they see that you're putting so much effort into this and they think that that expectation resides with them. Now, what if we shifted that, talked about the cool up or the warmup, the cool down, cool up, uh, the warmup, cool down. They saw that in the morning you had set aside time to work out, to really look at your day, create that white space so that you can be strategic and intentional about how you're approaching each of the actions for the day, with those meetings and with the emails that you're setting, and then at the end of the day you're doing a cool down where it's, you're talking with everyone, seeing how everyone did, getting updates, putting that in your to-do list and getting ready for the next day. Like, imagine what a world that would create for the team that you lead by setting that example.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Incredibly powerful Right, and I think you can't underestimate the impact it would have on your own sustainability, because, I mean, you can be the greatest leader in the world. But again, we're running off of a human mind, we're running off of a certain level of capacity and energy, and most of us invest solely in things that drain our energy and we're not making a conscious effort to invest in things that maybe replenish it right At the end of the day like we're a human being, you know like we need rest, we need recovery in order to sustain our performance, and that's why burnout is so rampant because people just aren't taking the time that they need.
Speaker 1:Not like it's a luxury to have, your performance is being negatively impacted by not doing this Taking care of yourself, making sure that your cup is filled so that you can give to others and then that sets a tone. It's a trickle effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time, big time. Well, and I think that's a certain brand of leader too that we haven't really discussed. But the leader that's like really does care about the team and it's incredibly self-sacrificial. Again, leaders eat last. Like they care about people and their wellbeing, they want them to have the time and space they need, yet they're not taking it themselves and I think sometimes we underestimate like our actions carry more weight than our words.
Speaker 2:So if I'm saying you know, take the weekend, I don't want you to and out of the kindness of my own heart, on a Saturday at 7pm, like I'm sending an email or I'm doing whatever because I want to inform people, they will feel inclined to do the same. Like I remember hearing on a podcast a while ago talking about, like when you walk into a room as a leader, like you're kind of in a bear suit, you know and you may not realize you're in a bear suit, but like there is a particular energy that people pay attention to what you're doing right, like the perception of threat or the power that you carry in terms of affecting change. People pay more attention to what it is you're doing and and we can easily overlook- that.
Speaker 1:In addition to that, I love that the bear analogy because, especially coming from a military mindset, the higher in rank somebody is that enters the room, I noticed that ideas are taken. I noticed that ideas are taken like as go-dos. So the power that you have in order to, uh like, create action that you didn't even think was being created is very impactful on the people that you lead. So, understanding the power that you have with the words that you say as you move into these things, and just understanding the role that that can play in your team's day to day, um, and how much either churn that'll create or inspiration, and uh, go get her attitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Great point.
Speaker 1:So we've talked a lot about like different mindset tools and resources that we can use to kind of create that good mindset it sounds like to strengthen it, to make it better. But what happens if we don't take care of this mindset? Like what happens if we just go throughout our day to day and just say, forget it, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2:Again, I would almost compare it like mental fitness to physical fitness. So if we don't care for our physical fitness by doing things deliberately right to strengthen our body or to nourish our body, we can survive and we can live. But our mobility, our quality of life and the potential and possibilities for things is decreased, right, the likelihood of potentially contracting some sort of long-term disease or ailment is increased. So and I think this is the challenge Like people can live based on like that old operating system, right, like I can survive. But I might be more susceptible to feeling negative emotions, I'm going to be less likely to take risks, I'm going to maybe not pursue things that really matter to me, because it's better to be safe than to be fulfilled. But we're not.
Speaker 2:Again, it's kind of this battle, right, between the spiritual component of humanity that's like we're here for greater purpose and an impact, and we aspire to achieve something greater and have an impact greater than ourselves and this brain that wants to keep us safe. So, again, from the mental standpoint, can we survive? Yes, but we may face more limitations, right, we may play smaller and ultimately we may have more regret when it's all said and done. So is it possible? Yes, and I think part of the challenge too is understanding. A lot of times we don't come to face with those costs until the end, right like we get to that point and we look back and like, oh, I wish I did this or I wish I did that and so my thing is like always trying to help people zoom out and understand, because, I mean, the brain will also make decisions in the pursuit of short-term pleasure at the expense of long-term pain.
Speaker 2:Right, it wants to feel good now, and often what feels good is what's familiar. But I think helping clients understand, yes, this feels good now, but you have to understand the whole picture long-term. This is the cost associated with that. And conversely, yeah, this might feel a little uncomfortable right now and you don't want to do it, but you know what, if you do it like repeatedly, five years from now, this is where you're going to be and how freaking great is that going to feel right. So I think helping clients understand the leveraging component too of the pain and pleasure associations we have with the different choices we make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when it comes to physicality and using mindset, when it comes to sports or challenging yourself physically, you can feel and see the differences as you create those habits. So you want to be a marathon runner. You start running and creating those distances and you can physically feel that discomfort and you're like it's because I'm running a mile more or it's hot out. So you can kind of create the reasoning behind it and you're like I just need to push past this uncomfortability because that's my goal, that's who I want to be. Is that marathon runner?
Speaker 1:When it comes to your mindset, you don't see any of this. You're like it's all internal and you're like am I actually making progress? I don't know, I guess I feel better internal and you're like am I actually making progress? I don't know, I guess I feel better, like that I was reacting before and now I'm like being proactive, so that feels good, but like I don't know. So it's hard to kind of see the difference when you can be like here's my medal for my marathon. You don't really get a medal for having a good mindset. That's what I'm thinking about is the mindset, but I guess the metal, if we're really like we want to go something tangible is like the calmness and the peace, like bringing it back to earlier, like that peace that you feel, uh, whenever you kind of stay in the present and stay grounded.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and I also think it's in the decisions we make right. So you're right. I love that point, cause I think that's where a lot of people struggle. I think, if you're just making the decision to feel better, like that's very vague, it's qualitative, how do we measure it? But this is where I think the other component of it is acting our way into a new way of thinking. I think you know, to just want to feel better isn't necessarily enough. I think we have to motivate ourselves through setting intentions to actually step outside of our comfort zone mentally. So if we're scared of doing something like, actually do the darn thing to prove to yourself and your brain like new proof and evidence oh I did it and I didn't die, and I'm actually here and maybe I even enjoyed it a little bit, right.
Speaker 2:So, like, if we're a leader, like it might be having a difficult conversation with thing. Right, like, if I want to get stronger, I don't want to just say I want to be stronger, I'm going to be stronger, I'm strong now, right, like. It's like you have to go to the gym and get on the machine and do the reps and you know what. There's an inevitable resistance to doing that because the brain has done something different for a long time, and I think that's part of it too. A big part is, when you're trying to affect change or do things that the mind's pushing back on, is that that resistance is inevitable. It's not a sign that it's not good for you or not right. It's just unfamiliar.
Speaker 2:And the only way to build familiarity is through repetition and action. And the irony is the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. Right, and when you think about it, over the course of our lives, there's so many things that we've all done for the first time. Like we went to school, we read, we walked. Like we had a conversation with someone, we had our first job. You know any skills that we have now, once upon a time started as nothing, and the way we built that confidence was through action. So I think it's really taking actions to support those new beliefs, not just saying, oh, I want this other thing, yes.
Speaker 1:Cause wanting and doing aren't the same thing.
Speaker 2:No, it would be nice, it would be easier.
Speaker 1:The brain would be so happy with that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want this Okay.
Speaker 1:Perfect. So, as we're coming to the end of our conversation and the audience and those that are listening are just like, wow, this is such good information, like I really want to tackle my mindset and I'm going to be a new leader or manager or I'm taking on this new project, what is one step that they can take towards creating that mindset to be who they want to be?
Speaker 2:Two things. One, pick up the book Mindset by Carol Dweck. It's a great, just informative book to start understanding, right, how the mind functions, what's the difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. But I would say if you're really looking to affect change, the best thing you could do for yourself is to reach out to someone to have that conversation and again, I think that's saying it from experience.
Speaker 2:I knew that I wanted to make changes but at the end of the day we're subjective beings, right. We just don't necessarily possess the objectivity to really understand and get at those challenges on our own in a box. So for me, working with a coach is really what allowed me to expand my perspective and understand some of my own beliefs a bit better, and I think it's really freeing. I think there's a lot of people that put the weight to I don't want to use the word fix, but like to improve themselves all on their own shoulders and they can spend years picking up all the books and trying to do all the things, Whereas if you can work with someone who understands and can kind of help you see yourself in a different light, it can really expedite the process.
Speaker 2:You're not meant to growth is not meant to happen alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true. Especially with a community, you can see more of what's possible, whether it's with a coach or a good set of colleagues or mastermind group or whatever that that setting could be to, where you can kind of reflect upon, like, here's where I want my mindset to go and here's what I'm doing, but is that actually supporting me or not? I love that you brought that up, because there's when we're too close to the issue, it's hard to gain perspective on it. So when you get those different perspectives, um, and see, like maybe something through their eyes instead because while perception isn't reality, it does have a really big yeah, try telling my brain, that yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, that's a really good point. You're like, well, I having a conversation, whatever its feedback. I said this. They took it as this is that perception, reality, how can I be better to share what I actually meant Be a better communicator and so kind of creating that perspective and zooming, zooming out the 5,000, 50,000 foot level, whatever that is, and getting that?
Speaker 2:yeah, always yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean listen like I've studied this stuff now for over 13, 14 years and I still work with coaches because I know that I can't get to the heart of certain things or I need help reframing because at the end of the day, we're humans and the way we see things we're quite closely tied to. But I do think it's such a gift even just to understand conceptually right, that we are not our thoughts, right, that our emotions are not facts, and it can just create an opportunity to start to choose differently and not feel like we're kind of like prisoner to whatever we think and feel.
Speaker 1:Our brain is there to protect us, but we have the option to decide to grow. Yes very well said. Oh, awesome. Well, thank you so much, mj. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm definitely personally gonna take a lot of information for my own self, and I hope that the audience does too. It was wonderful talking with you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to another episode of Lead Into it. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help future listeners. If you want to learn more about the podcast or me, go to leadintoitco. That's leadintoitco. Thanks again.
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