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Episode #113 - European pilot training: Sascha Richter & Phil Haupt – The Helicopter Podcast

• Halsey Schider • Episode 113

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Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS!

In this episode, host Halsey Schider engages in a compelling discussion with Phil Haupt, European representative for Hillsboro Heli Academy (HHA), and Sascha Richter from ADAC Luftrettung, Germany’s leading air medical helicopter operator. The conversation centers on the innovative pathway program established between HHA and ADAC, designed to provide German-speaking Europeans with a streamlined route to a career in helicopter aviation.

Phil and Sascha delve into the specifics of this partnership, highlighting how students can train at HHA’s Troutdale, Oregon, campus to obtain both Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certifications. This dual-certification approach positions HHA as a comprehensive training solution for European students, eliminating the need for separate training programs across different continents.

The discussion also explores the benefits of the F-1 visa program, which allows students to work in the U.S. for up to 23 months post-training, enabling them to accumulate the flight hours required by European employers. This aspect of the program offers significant time and cost savings, as students can gain practical experience without the need for additional training upon returning to Europe.

Sascha provides insights into ADAC’s operations and the organization’s commitment to addressing the growing demand for emergency medical service pilots in Germany. He emphasizes the importance of well-trained pilots and how the partnership with HHA plays a crucial role in meeting this need.

Tune in to this informative episode to learn more about the collaborative efforts between HHA and ADAC, and how they are paving the way for aspiring European helicopter pilots to achieve their career goals through comprehensive training and strategic partnerships.

Thank you to our sponsors Robinson Helicopters, Hillsboro Heli Academy and Sellacopter

Halsey J Schider (00:37.39)
Hey guys, it's Halsey Shetter with the Helicopter Podcast coming at you live from, well it's not really live actually, that's a lie, because this is gonna come out in a few days, or weeks, or months, I don't know. So it was live.

It's live right now. It's live for us right now. Yeah, so that's fine for us. Okay, perfect. Live for us, not live for you guys, but we're at European Voters and I'm excited to have this conversation. Joining the podcast for the second time. Do I sound... I sound like a little weird. Do I sound okay to you guys? No, you always sound little weird. Okay, thanks Phil. Joining for the second time, Phil. Phil, I always screw up your last name, so can you help me? Haupt. Haupt. Yeah.

Is that not hard? No, it's easy. I think it's hard. So you're coming to my name, so now it's going to be... I got you down. I'm good. Don't worry. So Phil with Hillsborough Heli Academy, been on the show before, we've talked a lot about training, and we're excited to be here, joined with Sasha Richter. It's good enough.

Or his name tag is richer. Richer today. So I like that one actually. Yeah, it's nice. This is nice. I'm having fun. I like podcasting with friends. It makes things a little bit easier.

When I have to podcast with people I don't know, it's like I actually have to act like a professional or something. So I appreciate having the friendship here. Excited for the conversation. Sasha, first time on the podcast. Welcome. This is pretty cool. And actually, admittedly, I know that we've talked about it, but I don't know if I even fully understand exactly.

Halsey J Schider (02:10.862)
the whole Pathway program and exactly what's happening with ADAC, that relationship. So I'm excited to dive into that. I'm excited to learn more about the training in Europe versus training in the United States. Why do Europeans train? But first, Sasha, mind just with little introduction.

No. Come on! Okay, just because of you. He said German. Yeah, Sascha Richter is my name. You said it right. I'm from Germany actually. Richter. Richter. That's hard one. Richer. I like Richer as well. Yeah, Richer is fine. I think, yes, I am 42 years, even though I'm not looking like that. I'm married, I have two kids.

And I've been to the States as well. I've been to the warm area in the States back in the days, 2009 to 2011. Yeah, I'm by now flying for ADAC for about 12 years now. And my, as for many people, think my big goal was to become a helicopter pilot. Not specifically for HEMS operation, but yeah, flying in general. And I...

The idea was doing it with the military and then after I passed everything I said no that's not the right way for myself. So I went back home and then I looked up stuff and I as well as many people today decided on going to the US for different reasons and I think we're going to talk about them in a while. And then I went to Bristol Academy back in the days in Florida 2009 to 2011, worked there for the rest of the visa time as a flight instructor.

Back in the days we had the old J1 visa with only two years on it in total. So a bit different than it is today. And then I came back and I looked for work which was pretty crappy back in Europe. So I worked as a freelance guy, as a pilot, instructor, examiner and everything.

Halsey J Schider (04:08.558)
And then I actually ended up with ADAC in 2013 after I waited quite a while for an open position. And I started as a co-pilot or like a PICCOS like some of our guys do today as well. So I ran all that program and then I finally became a captain on the EC135 in 2015. Moved bases and yeah.

Since then I'm flying as a captain and I'm working as a bass manager thing since 2016. Now for about eight and a half years on my old bass and I just started the newest bass in ADAC in the north of Germany in July this year and I'm running that now as well. Very cool. Obviously our European listeners are probably familiar with ADAC but for our North American friends just a quick background either from Phil or Sasha on ADAC.

What you guys do, what you guys fly, your mission, your service area, all that fun stuff. So basically ADAC is by now still the biggest HEMS operator in Germany. We are the biggest by basis. The second big operator, the DRF, is just slightly behind us. So they are basically the main big players on the German market. As I said, The main operation for us is HEMS operation.

primary and secondary missions. We operate 135 and 145 helicopters. And we have now with our new base 38 bases all over Germany, a bit over 50 machines in the fleet and about 180 pilots plus minus. So it's by now quite a big operator. Yeah, seriously. I don't know if you guys know this side of the business or not, do you know air medical is a funny thing.

for North America, for the United States specifically, I should say, in regards to, it's very expensive. know, Zach, our mutual friend, who you know was, he was in a car accident, he was airlifted. know, think it's probably, rotors were probably turning for about an hour. And that equated to about, I think about 60 plus thousand dollars that, you know, is due to him. Is that?

Halsey J Schider (06:32.522)
Is it a government subsidized program in Germany? Is there any out cost for, again, this might not be the pilot grade, but I'm just curious. Good question. Yeah, it isn't actually. That's a good part of Germany because it is actually part of the German health insurance system. So it doesn't matter if a car or whatever comes or the helicopter, it's paid by the insurance companies basically. it's covered.

Maybe there's a deductible or something that don't even think so. Yeah, no it might it might be on the private insurance If you are on the state and should have insurance, it's totally covered and that's kind of how all the health care is Yeah, it's different to the state. Yeah, it's different. So we do things different. We know yeah big difference as well as like in Germany, we actually take Emergency doctors in the helicopter. yeah, that's that was interesting that we talked when we talked about that. So you guys pilot then there's

paramedic, nurse, doctor? We call it a HEMS crew member. He's a paramedic with a little bit of extra training for the cockpit work, but he's not active with flying, he's just supporting basically. And then we have the emergency doctor. How much training does that individual get helicopter specific? A couple of weeks. A couple of weeks. Basically it is supporting in case of navigation, radio and all that stuff. And is it helpful?

Absolutely. They do a pretty good job. They have the hardest job because you know in flight they have to support us as a pilot and on the ground they basically have to support the emergency doctor so they are actually working all the time. the other two guys. They're non-stop. So you have that HEMS, what is it called? HEMS crew member. HEMS crew member, doctor, nurse? No, doctor and pilot. So three people. Just a doctor. So no nurse? Paramedic. Cool.

Yeah, stateside usually, they have specialty crews, right? Like a hospital base might have a crew, like a specialty neonatal for a baby or something. They'll fly doctors out for situations like that. But when I flew air medical, no, was just paramedic nurse and pilot. I didn't have a co-pilot. It'd be nice. Sometimes. You guys are spoiled.

Halsey J Schider (08:53.592)
Yeah, you know on the 24-hour basis we have certainly at night we have two pilots so and we have some basis with the hoist system and everything so then you have four crew. interesting. Because you have a specific technical crew member for the hoist operation. So you guys will do like search and rescue type operation? Not really it's implemented in the the normal medical stuff we're gonna do all over the country. Like what would you hoist though? Maybe like you when you guys worked with the Hamburg crew.

on the tower? actually I started on the hoist. I was actually hoist operator. When I started in ADAC as a second in command or co-pilot, whatever you call it, basically I was there because it was a 24-hour base, so I was basically the second pilot at night. And also on the days, I was the guy operating the hoist. So I got trained on the hoist and when we got a hoist mission, which was at the coastline, so at the northern coastline of Germany, we flew out and I went to the back then, not as a pilot, I operated the hoist then.

And we also have, basically we have a hoist at the coastline and in the mountains for sure. So it's like someone gets hurt on the mountain. You hoist them in hoist. Absolutely. That's very cool. And we actually, since one and a half years, we have a hoist in Hamburg. So in the city of Hamburg, where you think like, what the heck? But they used it quite often actually in the city area. Interesting. So when they can't land there, they're going to hoist down they hoist the... Wow. They hoist the doctor down. there is a doctor down here. they put the doctor... That's crazy.

actually worked out quite good. Now you say 24-hour base, so you guys do fly at night but it's two pilots? Yeah, so by now it's still two pilots at night. The other regulations are just changing in that case but our company decided for now we're gonna stay with two pilots at night which is good and yeah we have a certain amount of 24-hour bases and all the other bases that's a bit of a thing people...

often don't understand all the machines, all the pilots can fly at night. So if we fly at night, depends on what the ministry and how the base is gonna be set up and paid for basically. So normally it's gonna be day, seven o'clock to sunset. And if they want and if the state of Germany wants you to fly at night as well, they have to request it and then it's gonna be. Interesting. I would like to work at a base that doesn't fly at night. I did not like getting woken up.

Halsey J Schider (11:18.978)
That's why my air medical career was short-lived. I've talked a lot about it on the podcast. To me, that was very difficult. Regarding schedule, so your schedule, on a non-24-hour base, let's say you show up at 7 and you're off at 7, like a 12-hour? From 7 a.m. to sunset. To whenever the sunset is. Or longer if you're out on a call or something. Do you have a duty day restriction? Yeah, absolutely. How many hours?

Basically, let's say that in the summer half year we are allowed to fly or work four days in a row and then we have to have two nights off. In the winter half year we're allowed to fly seven days in a row and then we have to be off again. And on these days we have a maximum of 10 hours total flight operation time and then we can extend that to 11 and 12 hours.

And is that like straight operation? Or is it just work time? No, it's operational time. And that means that in between the calls or the flights there has to be less than one hour break, then it's going to be run through. It's operation time. If it's more than one hour, then it's break time. Interesting. Yeah, I'm trying to think. think it was 12. I think our limit was a 12-hour duty day. And it was just a day. Like, if I show up at 7, I got to leave at 7. We could extend.

to 14 hours, but if there was a patient or your crew in the helicopter at the 14th hour, you're in trouble. So there would often be times where it would be like a shift change, Working days, I get a call, say, at 6.50 p.m. And I know it's gonna take me an hour and half to get to the patient, and then it's gonna take an X amount of time. If I knew it was gonna put me close to the 14 hour, I would have to decline the call.

because of a 14-hour duty day. Luckily, there's lots of bases, so then they just backfill and they throw someone else in. And then there was times where was like, this is close, you know? And so you get approval to extend past 12, because you had to go through your OCC, operational control center. And then there would be many times, I was working on the border, so the Mexico-US border, very south Texas. So we would take people into San Antonio. And actually, this was my favorite situation.

Halsey J Schider (13:44.844)
because I had great accommodations in San Antonio because I lived there. And so I loved getting a late call where I knew I could make it to San Antonio, but I knew I couldn't make it home because I would have passed my 14 hours. So I could stay. I got to stay at my own house, and they pay 12 hours of time and a half because you're stuck away from base. That's pretty good, huh? Which is pretty nice. Now, you could actually fly part 91.

by yourself back and then your crew has to get a ride back. I never did that, I just stayed. I'm too tired. And the company never questioned it. They encouraged you to stay, right? So that was a neat situation and I enjoyed that on my paycheck for sure. So the relationship, Hillsboro Heli, obviously Hillsboro Heli is a proud sponsor of the Helicopter Podcast and my alma mater's, place and a school that I'm.

Very proud to say I went. I got an incredible education learning how to fly there. I've been fortunate enough to fly with a lot of people in the industry and I can tell when I'm flying with someone from Hillsboro compared to maybe some other operations. So I think Hillsboro does a great job. Always great to come to these shows, connect with Phil and Jared and Natalia and Eric, just the whole team. It's awesome.

What is this relationship that you guys have Phil? And maybe even before you get to that, just give a little recap to our audience of who you are and essentially what your role is in the European side of Hillsboro Heli Academy.

Halsey J Schider (15:22.222)
We know you love helicopters. That's why you're here. But are you ready to make it a career? Hillsboro Heli Academy has been making dreams of flying helicopters come true since 1980. Visit us at flyha.com and dream big.

I mean, did my training as well. ExaSh I actually started in Florida, but then Switch Schools came to Hillsborough. And now being a CFI, like we talked about last time, barely, or just miss each other over there. Yeah, what year was it again? 2014. So you started training? Yeah. And I was gone. Yeah, you were just month did you start? I think I in August or September or something. Oh yeah, I think I left in April. Out of there. It was a different time, It was a different leadership back then, that's all I'm saying.

Yeah. Anyway, I started working as a CFI, then assistant chief, a couple of different projects. And then at some point, the management came up with the idea to pitch to ADAC to kind of have like a collaboration. And me being German and the only EASA rated pilot, I kind of got voluntold, I guess, to kind of take this on.

And we kind of... Make the German do it. They're efficient. know how to We're happy about it. It was a good one. I guess let's dive in a little bit deeper if you don't mind though. Who had the idea to reach out to ADAC? Why ADAC? Who is the brainchild of that? Because it seems pretty smart. Yeah, I think it was...

Pro the old leadership and then Nicole from Germany. was kind of like the go-to person. I remember her. I kind of worked a little bit with her as well on that and then Gerrit and Brad kind of spearheaded that whole thing, I guess. And I was kind of just, they needed somebody to establish it and run it to kind of knew the European side, knew the American side. And that's kind of how I was asked to get into that and how we met at a meeting, I guess, a couple of months later.

Halsey J Schider (17:23.992)
What's the importance for this program for ADAC? Is there a struggle for pilots, qualified pilots to fly the mission? I don't know if it's, no, to say there is a struggle by now might be wrong. But certainly as everybody else, we need to fulfill positions and we need to fulfill them wisely and thoughtful. And that's probably the idea because...

For the future, know that until 2030, 3035, we have to fulfill more than 50 positions by now, just calculated, without any extras coming along on the way. So we know the boomer years are coming or they retire now. So we are like everybody else, we need to find solutions. And that is basically one solution for us. And Hillsboro was a pretty good idea. I think, or we see it now, it was a good decision.

Because the big goal for us is, or for everybody is, we have to fill that gap after training until the first position in the company. As you might remember back in your days, I came back and I had about thousand hours and I went to different schools and companies and they say, yeah, that's nice, but do you have this and this and this? And I said, no, where should I get it from? Yeah. Yeah. Then, no, no, I take the other guys there from the military, whatever. Sure. Okay. So we had to fill that gap and the best solution for that is at the moment, the U.S. market.

due to the options flying and getting hours in a certain amount of time. And doing that in a pretty good and advanced environment, I would say. that's probably... We see that that is actually a solution and that is one part of the deal for us. And how long has this relationship been an official pathway? I think unofficially it all started in 2019 and then 2020 around HeliExpo Anaheim, I think, was made official.

And then something else happened. I think the first students actually arrived just in August 2020 when the US opened the border for students again. Were you ever to wear a mask in the helicopter? I mean at ADSC I think until last year. pictures. I got lucky, I stopped, you know, not to derail too much, but I left air medical.

Halsey J Schider (19:43.102)
And actually my goal is to get out of helicopters completely. I was selling roofs at the time and I was making a lot of money selling roofs. I had an opportunity... Roofs or roofies? Both. Not roofies, other drugs. I'm not a creep. And I had an opportunity to kind of have my own franchise, so to speak, of a roofing company.

And that was gonna be the path. And then I stopped flying, was away from helicopters, not long, a months. And I was like, oh man. I made a mistake. I don't care about the money, this is a bad idea. I had so much invested in helicopters, it just didn't make sense. So I started flying the news and decided that I was gonna sell.

helicopters full time because I had dabbled with that. so I quit my job and then COVID. Everything happened all at once. So I stopped flying, stopped roofing, and then started my own business. And then COVID happened just like the next day. And so it was very challenging. But it actually worked out. There's a favorable market at the time. luckily, here we are and we made it. But yeah, COVID was interesting.

That all said, is I had buddies flying Air Medical and they, not only having to wear masks, but after each mission, they had to do like a full clean, sanitation of the helicopter and it was like a five to six hour ordeal. Like take hours, like the helicopter would be brought out of service and they to take all these precautions, cleaning. It might have just been if the patient had COVID. I don't remember what the rules were, but I was thankful.

that I wasn't included in that. essentially students have a pathway, not a guarantee, right? This is, if you're German, right? It's kind of tailored for Germans? I mean, you need to speak German and be allowed to work in Germany. so you have to be able to... German We have Austrian, Swiss, Danish guys even now. Belgium. Belgium, exactly. So you have to speak German. Yeah. Some form of it. Yeah.

Halsey J Schider (22:04.07)
Like you did earlier, I think that's the way you showed us. fucking high-mission Deutsch. I pass, I can fly? Sure. Do you guys talk to Tauer in German? Yeah, we do, sure. Really? Yeah, and you have to talk to the crew and to all the people around in German, so it makes sense. I think it would be really cool to work in a different country, actually. I think that would be awesome. But German-speaking, able to work in Germany.

I guess how many students actually do we have a percentage that we know of that start the program with the intent of going to ADAC and utilizing that pathway that ultimately actually end up at ADAC? Not a percentage. I think it's hard to say because it's like the program I think the first people who came out of the program starting working at ADAC was like last February and so it's like it takes a time. Training is a year and a half plus two years of working.

if you use it all and then plus coming back and now we have let's say that way we have seven people in the company now more or less out of the program and we have about four or five more tested so basically fulfilling all the requirements and passed the final test to start with ADAC so we have some more on the pipeline waiting just for positions and the next the next guys and girls are actually just just getting ready more or less.

They just need to do the test. So let's say I'm a German speaking student, allowed to work in Germany, zero helicopter experience. And my dream is to be an air medical pilot at ADAC. What does the next two, three, four years of my life look like? And how do I go about coming to Hillsborough? What testing am I doing? Am I doing EASA as well?

Give me the whole program as if I'm the guy that you're pitching this to. OK, first question I'm going to ask you. Helicopter pilot or ADAC pilot? Both. Helicopter pilot? No, I only want to work at ADAC. That's something that we discourage because it's like, you know there's no guarantees in aviation. when people say, I only want You're ruining it. You guys are taking it too literally. I'm trying. This is a.

Halsey J Schider (24:25.44)
I'm giving you an opportunity to explain the program. Just go with it. I just give you the best saying we have over all the years and it actually explains it pretty good. This opportunity or the final job with ADAC is one thing, it's a cherry on the top. And that's how we actually explain it to the people as And I get that. And to our listeners, course, nothing in life is guaranteed.

learning at Hillsborough, there was not a guarantee that I would instruct at Hillsborough. They shouldn't have hired me, honestly. But they did. They learned from it. can talk to Jared about that mistake, okay? So I understand that part, but theoretically speaking, just specific to the ADAC program, if I have that interest and my goal would be to end up at ADAC,

What does that look like? How do I start? Who do I talk to? How do I get involved? What are those conversations? What are questions that I should ask you? What are all these things? What is it like living in America if you've never been to it? I just want to hear it all. So I guess the first step is usually that the people either get in contact with us or come to an event like this or we do these seminars and we do regular webinars where they can get all the information and a lot of them then have like...

email conversations or phone calls with me where we talk about all those things that you mentioned like how to prepare for your training. I do this preparation class for future students where we kind of every Tuesday night we get together talk about flight training and they also they have to do some homework and then we do like a little Kahoot game where we review the material for the private pilot license and kind of have conversations about like yeah what to expect in the States.

how to find roommates, like, I usually like every two or three weeks I tell them about your podcast and I encourage them to do three weeks? Why not every week? you me a little bit more then we can change that. Every week? Come You can sponsor the class. It depends on. It depends on how much beer I buy tonight. Whatever, you learned it or not. What's the turnout tonight? I think about 20 to 25 people. 25 people? Yeah.

Halsey J Schider (26:38.284)
And actually a lot of them are actually in this online class that I do and they came here to meet us. To meet me, I'm famous. Not just you but other people. No, no, just me. So you guys, you're doing classes, you're kind of starting the process. You get documentation about pricing, you learn the medicals you need to get because you need to...

have an Austrian medical to do our training because we are working with an Austrian flight school, so you can't use a German medical. It's very complicated. But we give them all those information. Makes a lot of sense. That's an interesting side topic, and we'll get back to the dissertation of what this is all about. just a sidebar, because I'm fascinated and curious about it, getting an FAA medical is quite easy. You pay a doctor, and they give you a piece of paper. Pretty much, yeah.

You can see me in this distance? Also, okay. Can you hear me? That's fine. F-O-R. And then they're like, did you say K? I'm like, yeah, I K. It's different, yeah. Yeah, so what is that? Is it pretty strict? Yes. I I did my initial one back in the day in the UK, and I think it was like a six or seven hours of different eye tests, drug testing.

blood tests, they listen to your heart. Physical tests and everything. It's a very tough day. A full day? A full day. And you're getting that every year? No, that's the initial one. And then you have to do it every year or if you are like me, over 40, even if I'm not looking like that. You look 55. Yeah, at least. As wise and good. Oh, That's the kids. And then you have to do it every half year. Every half year. Over 40 years, yeah.

How old are your kids? 11 and 13. Wow, that's good. talked about that before, so you could kind of remember. have older kids. You guys want to hear a podcast exclusive? I've never said it on the podcast. Go ahead. I'm going to have a kid. awesome. I'm going to have my first kid. Your first kid? Yeah. Congratulations. That's awesome. Yeah, we're pregnant right now. Pretty excited. When is it happening? Not till June. So it's early.

Halsey J Schider (28:58.446)
Not till June? June. June. June 20th. Yeah, that's good. When's your birthday? Try to get it until the beginning of July. Beginning? Why? Because the Americans, they're going to celebrate my birthday coming up. So it's going to be the 5th of July. Oh! You're the 5th? That's a bummer. You're so close. You're so close. I'm just behind, you know? Yeah, it's interesting. They have to get a medical. They have to understand that.

I guess, let's say that I'm at the show today and I'm interested, I'm eager, not sure about the money part yet, gotta figure that out, wanna talk about that obviously. What's the timeframe from this conversation happening today with you guys to them landing in Portland, flying a helicopter in Troutdale?

Halsey J Schider (29:55.224)
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think the quickest I've ever seen was like six weeks or so. But realistically, if you want to prepare probably, I would say like four to six months at least. Four to six months. Yeah. I mean, the Visa pros and everything can be done in like less than a month between like application. Nowadays, it's actually, we had that recently. Okay. So it's pretty quick and easy nowadays, but just getting everything ready, getting like your medicals done, clearing the financials, right? A lot of people have to quit their job and...

prepare for it and I also encourage them to study up before they go and it's just if you have a little bit more time that makes you a better student and actually you save time and money when you're over there. That rushed. Yeah. So four to six months I've done some Tuesday evening classes with you, I've consumed the Helicopter podcast, the best podcast ever made, all those things. I show up, I'm in Troutdale.

What is that initially like? I mean, you both traveled to the United States for training. think Phil, you and I touched on this actually when we talked last time. So Sasha, just from like your perspective, look, I went to flight school in my backyard, right? I grew up in Lake Espego and flight school was in Hillsborough, 30 minutes away. You know, wasn't a big distance. I did actually go to Embry-Riddle for a year in Florida before that. And that was a big, that was hard for me. I was young.

I didn't want to be away from home. I was a tough guy, but really a mama's boy. What was the experience like for you? And how do you talk to maybe the younger students? I understand that some of your adult students, maybe this is a set or adult, they're all adult, but older, second job, they might handle the transition a little bit better. What kind of advice are you giving to maybe the younger folks about just coming to a foreign country and learning how to fly a helicopter? Best time of my life.

Halsey J Schider (32:12.236)
It was the best time? time. Why? Certainly there was one big reason. My wife came with me. So I wasn't alone. That helps. So she was with me. Real fast on that. Just because it's probably a question that you guys get. Spouses can come under the visa. That's nice. That's good. If you have the chance, do that. On the other hand, it's a brilliant chance to certainly extend your English language.

and to see something from the world and to grow up a little bit.

for sure and that's all stuff you're actually gonna need if you come back and if you want to fly helicopters. You need to do to make decisions on your own, you need to get your focus a bit widened and extend your horizons and that's the chance actually I think with these traveling and also going into a foreign country by yourself and get everything sorted by yourself. So I would certainly, I'm gonna tell the people if you have the chance and if you somehow can manage that, go for it. Absolutely.

personally, I worked at Hillsboro for a long time. I trained there, 18, 19, I guess probably 19 years old and then ended up leaving when I was 24 I think. And at that time I went to Texas. I followed my girlfriend at the time, now my wife, now baby mama. So it worked out, it was a good move. And to me that was, like you said, so valuable of growth.

getting out of your comfort zone, having to rely on yourself to pay. My parents are good parents, They gave me too many handouts, to be honest. And so was a little spoiled. And so to be out on my own, to have that, to have that stress, that pressure, it wasn't always fun. And there was a lot of scary moments, but it was a journey that's been incredible. My life would not be the same if I hadn't gone to Texas at that age. So I totally hear what you're saying in regards to coming here.

Halsey J Schider (34:15.086)
It's important if you're listening to the podcast, if you're maybe a little apprehensive because you're younger and this idea of coming to the United States is maybe a scary prospect, got to, life is scary, right? Absolutely. So you got to be able to push yourself out of your comfort zone and come here. And probably what you'll find out is that you don't want to leave, maybe. I mean, Phil, he got locked down. We tried to, but I just won the green card lottery two years too late.

You won the lottery? Yeah, I won the lottery two years too late. So what happens when you win the lottery and you don't take it? You don't get the opportunity? We actually gave it back because the second kid just arrived and the first one wasn't too sure with medical issues. So we decided it's probably not the best idea to go back to the States with medical issues on a small bond.

The insurance, we talked about it. So we decided to actually stay and actually I just started with ADAC at that point so at that point we decided we leave it, give it to the next guy. That's cool. yeah at some point I thought about it and went like hmm maybe it would have been but no. would be the purpose? would you...

want to work. Why would you want to, is there just more opportunity for helicopter pilots? Absolutely. Flying wise it's way more opportunities, way more chances and way more options to look into different fields and operations and actually be able to get into that and grow in that. For sure.

that's totally different to the European market. Yeah, so I guess that's, let's say the pathway, we're talking about the pathway obviously. That's why I wanted to jump in because that's one of the reasons why ADC choose a foreign flight school. Because making people young or older going into different countries get all that sorted and you know run through the program and see other operations in different areas of the world that you know makes them more

Halsey J Schider (36:11.842)
valuable for us as well because they have different experiences and different tools in their pocket to use later on. 100%. So that's one of the reasons actually. What happens if someone does the training, they don't get a job at ADAC immediately? Is there other opportunities in Europe? I mean worldwide. A lot of graduates actually after they finish in the States go up to Canada.

Because the Canadian system is a little bit different than in the States that you don't really become a CFI after training Yeah, you go straight into the workforce and there's like obviously the the operators want to have more experienced pilots so they don't necessarily want to have a hundred fifty two hundred hour pilot and Instead they if they get an applicant who has fifteen hundred hours and some some a star time out of Alaska or so They're much more valuable up there. So we have a lot of graduates that actually moved up to Canada

In Europe as well, we just talked to some people from Iceland earlier, from Greece. There's some other options there. Yeah, so it's not all hope is lost if there isn't necessarily a vacancy. You have to be open, right? If you're open to work in other parts of Europe or outside of Europe, like in Saudi Arabia or Abu Dhabi or something like this, or go to Australia, there is a way. If there's a will, there's way. It's interesting because it's just...

so different than my mindset. I think I take it for granted a little bit, right? It's very easy for me. Being born here and well, not here, but you know what I mean. It would be difficult if I was born here. for sure. being able and it's funny too because I don't even think I really realized that even when I was at Hillsborough and it was all Europeans, it never really clicked with me like, this is way easier for me. This is a pretty clear path.

just because of all the opportunity in the United States. No hoops to jump through, no dual certification, anything like that. So I certainly dodge, know, not dodge a bullet, but just a little bit easier career path with growing up and being from the United States. The big thing that we've talked about before, but I want to reiterate to potentially our guests that missed the episode with you, is this dual certification. So you come to Hillsborough Heli Academy.

Halsey J Schider (38:27.362)
you have a relationship with an Austrian flight school to run concurrently FAA and a Yasa. What is that like? What kind of training load is that? It seems like a lot of work. It is, yeah. I mean, the Yasa theory is very comprehensive. Nicely said. You're doing weight and balance for... For Airbus A320 to fly over the Atlantic. Yeah.

and then calculate from a map of the North Pole or something like that with a campus. That is interesting. Have you guys talked to some of the VAI or other associations? Is there any conversation with EASA to change that? There is conversations and everything, but they're not going to change it. They're not going to? What's the reasoning? They're improving it, certainly, or they try to, but there's just a different mindset behind that.

So, and that said, it is pretty comprehensive and it's a load of work. So it is a pretty hard time for a for a time period, but you can work through it. There were so many people and by now the program runs pretty smooth and actually quite well organized. So it is manageable and nobody has to be afraid about it. Are all your European students taking advantage of that? Not just the Germans with the ADAC pathway?

Most of them, not all of them, but would say probably 80%. It seems like a no-brainer to me. It saves you so much time and money. Usually, I think the conversions used to be around 15,000 to 18,000 euros, and that was before the crazy inflation. And they can just do that as part of their training with us. That's insane to me. It's an absolute no-brainer. To me, that's such a great sales point. It is.

And that's a point for us as well because if you want to become into this pathway or mentor program, we call it, you basically have to be assigned in the European program because it doesn't make sense for us. need the European license. So that's one of the things. And on the other hand, we would like the people to actually have their PPL finished or at least come to the end of the PPL because that's the question I started at the beginning. We don't want to is wrongly said, but...

Halsey J Schider (40:50.978)
We like the people who want to become a helicopter pilot, not just a HEMS pilot. That's why they should start with the whole training and everything because it is a lot of money and it is a big journey. we try to, as from ADAC, try to support them and to guide them and help them on that way with a goal that, for sure, the ones where we think they fit to our company, we try to get them into the company and help them.

But on the other hand, if there are people who go somewhere else or it doesn't fit at the end, we still try to help them to bring something good into the market. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know, are there other schools that offer EASA? I don't think any helicopter schools that do EASA and certainly none of the F1 visa.

So it's kind of like the combination is what and What's the checkride situation like I mean currently I mean there's not only the checkride like in the FAA side But you also have like these 13 written exams and like a full day of like evaluations 13th that's it. Yeah, that's like 13. How many questions per exam? Depends on the subject subject, but how many questions on the think the question bank is around like 15 to 18 thousand questions and yes Can you give me an example question?

Yeah, mean my favorite one that I was told by a student is, so if you put nose spray in your nose, how many droplets come out? If you put nose spray in your nose, how many droplets come out? That is a very important helicopter question. Two. How many, Sascha? How does that have anything to do with helicopters? That makes no sense. Yeah, some of those questions are very particular. Yeah, interesting.

But they have to take a practical still, So they also have a checkride where we fly in an examiner from Austria. Okay, so they come in. And four times a year he comes in, does the checkrides and they also have to do type ratings for any type of helicopter you fly. So they get an R44 EASA type rating with that. And yeah, then they only have to apply and wait for about six to eight weeks to get their license. That's it? So it's all in-house, it saves you so much time. Yeah, no, it's incredible. mean, look, in my day with all my friends that are European, in fact, I'm looking at a couple...

Halsey J Schider (43:14.35)
old student friends right now across the way. There's Christian Husby, there's Tina, I all these Hillsborough folks. They had to go and I just remember the hellish stories of they get through all their training, they get their hours, and now they gotta go to Europe and spend two years. Studying and getting you had to do, right? No. No? No, because I've been to Bristol. They were back in the day, it's the only did that. They had that as well, back in the day. Slightly different way, but it was the same thing at the end. Are you all Schweitzer time then? Yeah.

No Robinson? No, I have everything. You have everything? Schweizer, Robinson, Capri. Chinook. In my dreams. Hey, we can all dream. Well, I mean, it's just an incredible pathway. It's a great program. And it's really a neat opportunity. For candidates that are thinking about coming in,

And they have an ambition of being a helicopter pilot with a cherry on top goal of being at ADAC. What is something that you guys look for in a candidate? Who do you guys want to hire? Who do you want to work with?

Halsey J Schider (44:23.672)
This podcast is brought to you by Cellicopter. Tired of listings that go nowhere? Exhausted by tire kickers who waste your time? Don't sell your helicopter alone. Cellicopter handles the entire process from start to finish. So, if your helicopter has sat too long waiting for a buyer, contact the team at Cellicopter today for your complimentary market valuation. Call 1-855-CELLICOPTER, 1-855-735-5226 or

email sales at sellacopter.com. Sellacopter. List it, it, done. Mainly I think the big thing is the right personality. So they have to be team players, they have to be open-minded, they have to be focused and certainly they have to be, you know, certain amount of discipline and be able to to make good decisions at the right moment.

Captain C and all that. That's things we're to look for. don't, how do you say that? We don't look for cowboys, we look for Indianas. Indians. Indians. Oh, Native Americans. would say you have to say that politically correct. A little A little sketch. We're getting weird territory. We might have to cut that out. So, yeah, don't, the other thing is we don't look for heroes. We just look for the right person. We could have used that one. Yeah, that would have been easier. Cowboys and Native Now we're getting cancelled. Yeah, exactly. Nah, it's fine.

I can weather the storm. good. So yeah, it's the personality. You certainly have to have the right amount of hours and some point of experience. gotta have the qualifications. Are you hiring people though that just could I go to Hillsborough Heli, fly nothing but Robinson, get my thousand hours and come fly at ADAC? Yeah, mean there's two different programs that they start new pilots with.

So one is the Picos program that Sascha talked about where you kind of like... It's 500 hours minimum and a commercial license and then you start as a second command. Yeah, because you do the second... I forget about that. We need this HEMS experience because we still have to fulfill these 500 hours HEMS experience to somehow and you know we can take our different flight hours for that.

Halsey J Schider (46:39.278)
But in general it's 500 hours HEMS experience. That's crazy. Who's the first guy that started? So that's German. So that's the one path and the other path is basically thousand hours and then you can start as a commander, as a captain. But that's more or less for military police guys. So we look for people with 1500 hours plus.

and then try to put them in an extended supervision and get them on the captain seat rather fast. That's actually what Zesha did with me last year. We spent about three months in the cockpit together. When you started. It was kind of my training. I remember talking to Phil that the amount of training that you guys do compared to what we're used to is insane.

It's almost like I feel like we don't maybe do enough and maybe you guys do too much. I feel like there needs to be a middle ground. We just try to figure that out and find the best path. But look, I love the idea. I for me, I went to about a month long indoctrination. I learned about the company. We learned about how to be nice to the med crew and everyone. We did some ground on the helicopter and we flew. And maybe I got...

10, 12 hours of flight training and then boom, I'm at my base. I'm flying active missions. I was nervous, right? And how many hours did you have at that time? A couple thousand. Yeah, okay, that's different. Yeah, it's different. But still, I remember my first call was a scene call in the wrong direction from anywhere that we've ever gone, landing in a city that I would have never thought I would land in. It was very stressful. I would love the idea of actually being a second seat.

For even 50 hours, if you go and do it for 50 hours, it would be a nice way to really figure it out. For a guy like you, we have it in the company, you're going to fly at least 10 hours on the second seat or under supervision. Yeah, so you do. So we do that in general. And then it basically ramps up for if you have people with less experience. Totally makes sense. And also we have these psychological testing before you actually even get permission or if you get into the pilot pool.

Halsey J Schider (48:50.87)
And there... They hire... You can pass that? Yeah, sure. Wow. So you see a lot of people can pass that actually. So in that point, there we're to look as well if is that guy one for, you know, the captain seat rather fast or is it good to put him on the pickers position like to let him grow in and grow and extend a little bit. Well guys, I really appreciate you both coming on. This is again a very cool program and it's very European, very fitting.

It's great to have this conversation at European Rotors. Got lots of people around. It hasn't been too noisy. It's been pretty cool. If you're interested and you thought, man, this episode really resonates, you're maybe from Europe, maybe you're young and you're starting or you're old and this is a second career, whatever it may be, whether you're going to ADAC or you're from a different country in Europe, whatever the case be, Hillsborough Haley, this is a great opportunity to do...

both your FAA and a YASA. And if you're German and you have, or speak German at least, and can work in Germany and you have aspirations of working for the largest air medical provider at ADAC, then there's just that extra cherry on top. So super cool. Guys, thank you for spending time with me. It's been a pleasure. I'm excited for tonight. We're gonna drink a lot. I'm German, but I'm not drinking alcohol. I don't drink either. So I'm gonna drink a lot, okay? Phil's gonna drink a lot.

Geez, All right, guys. Thanks for listening. This is Halsey with the Helicopter Podcast. And of course, thank you to MHM Publishing for making the podcast possible and the whole entire Helicast platform. Peace.

We know you love helicopters. That's why you're here. But are you ready to make it a career? Hillsboro Heli Academy has been making dreams of flying helicopters come true since 1980. Visit us at flyha.com and dream big.

Halsey J Schider (50:52.238)
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This podcast is brought to you by Cellicopter. Tired of listings that go nowhere? Exhausted by tire kickers who waste your time? Don't sell your helicopter alone. Cellicopter handles the entire process from start to finish. So, if your helicopter has sat too long waiting for a buyer, contact the team at Cellicopter today for your complimentary market valuation. Call 1-855-CELLICOPTER, 1-855-735-5226.

or email sales at sellacopter.com. Sellacopter. List it, it, done.