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Episode #111 - Insights from the Helicopter Institute - Randy Rowles - The Helicopter Podcast

• Halsey Schider • Episode 111

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Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS!

In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, host Halsey Schider sits down with Randy Rowles, a veteran aviator and founder of the Helicopter Institute.

With over 40 years in the industry, Randy shares insights on aviation training, mentorship, and the entrepreneurial drive that shaped his career.

The discussion highlights the critical need for experienced instructors, and the evolving role of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in pilot certification. Randy also reflects on many interesting topics, from the pivotal moment of solo flight sign-offs, to supporting Afghan pilots transitioning to U.S. aviation, and his thoughts on adapting training methods to meet modern safety and technological standards.

For practical lessons and inspiring stories from one of aviation’s most dedicated contributors, tune into this episode of The Helicopter Podcast!

Thank you to our sponsors Hillsboro Heli Academy, Robinson Helicopters and Sellacopter.

Halsey J Schider (00:37.804)
What's up guys, it's Halsey Schreiner with the Helicopter Podcast and I am just so excited to be podcasting today. Look, I know I'm a broken record. I say a lot of the same things a lot of the time, but I can't stress that my favorite thing about podcasting is being able to talk with people in this industry that have a big impact. And I've just been so fortunate because I've had so many wonderful conversations. And today's conversation with Randy Rolls

from Helicopter Institute, I think is gonna be one of those conversations. It's a guy that I've heard about, a guy that's name I've heard a million times, I've met him a couple of times. You can't go too far in the industry and someone doesn't name drop Randy. And so again, this platform is just incredible to allow me to connect with the leaders of this industry. Before we get into the conversation, big shout out to MHMPublishing and the vertical HeliCast family.

Thank you so much for making this show possible. And of course, to our sponsors, we couldn't do it without you. And finally, our listeners, please continue to like, subscribe, share, reach out. We love hearing you. My best handle right now on Instagram is at helihalsey. So I hope I can hear from you there. Randy Rolls, the man of the hour. Welcome to the Helicopter Podcast. How are you? Thanks, Halsey. Man, we're glad to be here. Really looking forward to this opportunity to sit down and visit with you for a little while.

As you said, we've kind of bumped into each other through the industry and had a couple opportunities to work together, but to actually sit back and drink a cup of coffee and have a conversation, which is the essence of what we're doing today, man, it's great. And really get to know about you and what you guys do. And I want you to express also to you and with Mike and Linda and everything, all the folks at MHM, goodness gracious, what a great way to go out and reach out to the industry and get a voice out. And really it's not self-promoting.

What a great job talking about the issues in the industry and just to have a little piece and an opportunity to share with that, I really do appreciate it. Well, of course, well, we appreciate you saying that. Mike and Linda Reno, course, of MHM, they're incredible. They're very forward thinking and that's, think, what makes businesses successful is you can't just be the same. You have to continue to evolve. And in their industry, publication, which I'm no expert in, but

Halsey J Schider (03:01.954)
They've had to evolve, right? They went from a hard copy magazine to an online magazine to now doing these podcasts and these other cool content pieces. And I think that's just kind of where the world is currently at. Are podcasts here to stay? I don't know. I'm certainly enjoying the process while I'm here. But, know, Randy, like I said, I truly mean this. I've had a couple of guests on that. In your case, I've actually met you. So that's one little different factor.

one consistent factor with you is I don't know if there's a day that I'm not on social media or a day that I'm not talking with someone in the industry. I kid you not, I'm skiing this past Saturday and my buddy Casey Allen reaches out. my God, do know Randy Rolls? And I'm like, well yeah, of course I know Randy. He's like, man, what a pilot, man. I just flew with him, I did my recurrent training, master in the 407. So like literally even just like two days ago,

people are reaching out. So if someone's been living under a rock and they don't know who you are, just give me the current Randy Rolls, your helicopter Institute business, DPE, everything else. Sure. Well, first, thank you. And I can say the same about Casey, by the way. So great airman. you don't have to lie. You don't have to lie. No, no, I'm doing it. He'll pay me later. But no, in all seriousness, know, I've...

This career for me, it started out when I was very young. This is 40 years. So I got into the helicopter business and aviation in general when I was 14. The classic get your rating on your birthday kind of guy, the private, the commercial and so forth. that part's pretty, there's a lot of folks that have run that gamut. My career has been in helicopters. I love this business. I have a great passion for it. And I've been very, very fortunate to have a lot of great mentors. I mean, I have-

I can name a whole bunch of them, but there's some really key folks that we'll talk about during this opportunity. And that's not unique to others, but I do believe as you get older, longer in the tooth in the industry, you start looking back at those opportunities and those people, and they mean a lot more to you because you understand the value that that brought to your career in the industry as a whole. And I absolutely have that. Today I have Helicopter Institute.

Halsey J Schider (05:24.238)
I started this company in 2009. It was actually started the day after I left Bell, Bell Helicopters. So once I left Bell, my wife and I sat together and we said, what do you want to do? I said, well, I love teaching and I do a lot of check rides. did a lot of check rides. And I really needed a company to be able to push that through, I believe in the legality of it all. So I to make sure it was done the right way. And we started Helicopter Institute.

Not long after that, I had a couple of folks that I used to fly with when I was working for other companies training, and they said, hey, we want to keep flying with you. so, Helicopter Institute became a place to do check rides, a lot of that, and also carpet backing. was just traveling in the, they call the carpet bagger, carrying your bag down the road and visiting customers. did a lot of that. And the company turned into an aircraft operator in 2017. Today we have 24 aircraft. We have a mix of

two Airbus products, the B2 and the B3. We operate 206s, 407s, 505s in the Bell line. And then we have the MD line that we still operate in, as well as the Robinsons. So it's been a long road to get here, but I'm probably living my best life right now. I got to admit, I have a wonderful staff. And at the end of the day, I'm still married to the same young lady I met in seventh grade. So if there's ever a lucky man, I'm him.

Man, middle school sweethearts, that's something that you don't hear all that often. Well, congratulations. I had no idea, even the fleet size. I think that owning and operating helicopters would have to be one of the hardest businesses to be in. So I'm always wildly impressed with people that not only are sustaining it, but they're thriving, living their best life. Something that I think about that probably sets you apart from other operators is this passion.

You and your wife sit down. What are we going to do? Well, I'm passionate about teaching. It seems like the foundation of your business was built on this idea of being passionate about teaching. So it's almost really not even like you're doing a business that you don't want to be a part of, right? This is like a labor of love. I've taught helicopters. I was a CFI. I was a young CFI. I think it was like 20 years old. And so it's been a while since I've actually CFI'd. But I enjoy it. I actually love giving instruction too.

Halsey J Schider (07:47.434)
I think at least at the flight school that I was at, flight instruction was a bit of a means to an end. I had to flight instruct to kind of get to the next level. But now as kind of an older guy, I'm like, man, it'd be great to go back to instruction because it's so fun. What is it about teaching to you that you're so passionate about? That's a great question. A lot of it had to do with the mentors. So when I first got in the flying, I...

I was not an instructor immediately. I did a commercial add-on and my first opportunity was crop dusting. And they were talking, looking at the late 80s, so the rules were different, right? It was all civilian trained, R22, and we were using the Apollo DTN3 spray system on this little R22. I didn't know what I didn't know. And I know you hear that cliche-ish, right? But it's a real, real true statement.

I was there about 15 months and doing that kind of work. Then I first flew with a guy by name of Gary Young at Bell Helicopter. He was their chief instructor. He'd been there since 1967. He was a staple. He was one of the first two that started the Bell Training Academy with Lauren Dowdy. When I flew with him my first time, as I said, I was 18, 19 years old. He looked at me and he said, son, you need a mentor. I had never had that. He gave me his office number and his home phone number.

He became my friend and my friend and my true mentor in today. He's still very, very close to me. We're like my second dad, if you will. And he was an instructor. So it was, my passion was developed flying in the 206, doing a 180 autorotation. I remember it like yesterday and he asked me, said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to be you. I want to do this job. And I never lost that. And I was very fortunate to have him. I had another gentleman by the name of Wayne Weisman.

long time instructor in the Florida area law enforcement. He got me early on into the old Sikorskis, so the S-55s, the S-62s. I did all the training for the Whisperjet when that came out in 1998 for Papillon, wrote that program. That all became a reality because of my relationship with Wayne Wiesbren. So, I think you have a tendency to...

Halsey J Schider (10:08.546)
maybe blend a little bit into the mentors you have in your life. What are you looking up to? Who are those people? If you like movies, they probably look at Fred North. I mean, if you like aerobatics, is it Chuck and Chuck Aaron or Aaron, right? mean, you can look at the... Who is it that you're going to latch onto? And for me, my passion became teaching because I was passionate about the people that taught and they gave me those opportunities. And that's where I think a lot of it came from.

That's a really interesting perspective. And I'm really glad that you talk about just the mentorship. I've said it a million times on the show and actually, maybe you know this or you don't, but the show, my show specifically, is very much geared towards guys and gals that are getting into the industry, they're going through flight school. It just seems to be the audience that I've built. And so we talk about this idea a lot of mentorship and networking. And I got to give kudos to you because at 19 years old,

You were smart enough, you probably thought you were pretty smart too at 19 if you're anything like me, but to truly actually believe like, oh man, this guy is offering me something and I need to follow up on that. I need to pick up the phone, I need to call his office. I need to stay engaged. I think that there's a lot of young people, specifically today, that might not do the same thing, right? So I'm always encouraging young people or people just getting into this maybe as a second career.

If someone is engaging you from this idea of mentoring, take them up on it, right? My career has been built off my mentorships that I've had. I'm now fortunate to mentor people and I'm still being mentored by other people. And so, it's just like this full circle thing that's incredible. So, it's an interesting perspective that your passion of teaching was because you were around passionate teachers. And I do have to tangent a little bit.

The day that flight instruction clicked for me was also during a 180 auto rotation. It's funny that you say that because I was kind of nervous about teaching autos, specifically 180s. You look, you get your CFI at a couple hundred hours. You don't really even feel like you know what you're doing, right? Kind of the blind leading the blind. I taught at Hillsboro and they worked us in, right? They're like, okay, you're not gonna do autos for a little bit. You're gonna.

Halsey J Schider (12:31.096)
start small and then work your way up and then you do some check flights. Anyway, I just remember doing my first 180 as a flight instructor and for the first time, auto rotations truly made sense. I just saw a new perspective of the maneuver, seeing it from my student side and seeing the mistakes that he was making during that and like everything clicked. I'm like, my goodness, I don't actually have to fly this helicopter anymore to

become such a better pilot, a better stick, because I'm seeing all those same errors that I couldn't conceptualize when I was actually in the moment. And so I remember that day like it was yesterday. So funny little tangent on that. So you start Helicopter Institute with this passion of teaching, and now you've built it to multiple aircraft. What is kind of the day to day, what does a day to day life look like for Randy Roles?

Halsey J Schider (13:32.142)
We know you love helicopters. That's why you're here. But are you ready to make it a career? Hillsboro Heli Academy has been making dreams of flying helicopters come true since 1980. Visit us at flyha.com and dream big.

Well, think for me to talk about day-to-day life, I've got to reverse the... Let me go back in time a little bit. We talked about meeting Gary and so forth, but let me tell you how it got there. And I think that'll explain a little bit about where we are today. So the way it worked when I first went to my first Bell School, which was, the Bell 206, I had met Gary, but that all came... I actually did Bell School backwards. I did the flight first and then I did the ground school second.

And so the guy that paid for my school, his name was Dan Crow. He has Palm Beach Helicopters in Florida, which is a company that started my wife back in late 90s. But great guy, just a true another mentor for me, gave me my first job kind of guy outside of spraying. And anyway, he told me, said, here's the deal, man, I'll send you to Bell School, but you have to pay your own way there. And so I did the flight in his aircraft down in Palm Beach, and then I had $165 that I had to make work to get me

from West Palm Beach, Florida to Dallas and back. That was my transportation money. And so I booked a train. And so I got a train ticket for 50 bucks that took me from West Palm Beach to San Antonio, Texas. And then for another 50, 50, 60 bucks, I got a round trip ticket on American Airlines at a San Antonio to Dallas and back. And you say, well, why is that important? Because, well, I got out there, went through school, but I had to get back to West Palm, right?

So, that guy Wayne Wiesbren that I mentioned had an old H-19 or S-55 in San Antonio out at the Thunder Ranch down there. And so, I flew back, hopped in a helicopter with him and flew all the way back to Florida. Awesome. So, the fact we talk about mentoring, it's not just mentoring, it's also the opportunities that are presented to you because I was able to get myself and not an easy way to get to Dallas to go to school.

Halsey J Schider (15:43.63)
I was able to, it was really funny out there, the hotel that I stayed at near Bell was an old Best Western. I know the building's still there, it was not Best Western now, but long story short, I got there and I had no money for a car, so was trying to figure out how I was going to make this work. And the cook in the kitchen there at the Best Western, they had a little restaurant, he would give me a ride in the morning and the afternoon. So he would take me to Bell School and drop me off and pick me up at the end of the day. It's not just-

in the helicopter community. It's people. You know, the old cliche, takes a village. That was a big part of it for me. And so, you know, that's the kind of stuff we do with Helicopter Institute. When I started this company, it was, as I told you, I was a carpet bagger, you know? And then we were able to get a 407 in 2017, 18, my first 407. when-

We ended up having a small little building in 2010 that was a house that my wife and I bought in West Palm Beach. She had lost her parents, not expectedly. She had a few dollars in the insurance and had to put it somewhere, so we invested in this little $47,000 almost condemned, and I'm not joking, little Key West bungalow. It's probably a half a mile less from where Trump's house was, Mar-a-Largo in Palm Beach, on the cheap side.

And so we bought it, we fixed it up, and my sister moved into it. And then when Trump was elected, and again, I don't care about his people's political thing, but just the fact that this guy goes in office, somebody offered me almost $350,000, almost $400,000 for this house. Nice. And it was crazy. And my sister was living there, and I called her and I said, sis, I love you, but you gotta go. But she works here now. mean, I a joke and leave it.

Kind of true. With that kind of offer, you have to. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we got this money and I called friends. I called people that I knew. And so I called the Guidry family down at Aero Aviation in Broussard, Louisiana. And I cold called them and I was like, hey man, would you be interested in leasing me a 407? And it's like, for what? And I said, well, I want to compete in the Bell 407 training market. And he goes, well, when can you be here? Tomorrow morning. So I hop on an airplane, I'm there, right? And then-

Halsey J Schider (18:04.3)
I call friends of mine at Aerodynamics, Tonka Hufford over there, said, hey, look, I need an NVG cockpit. And he's like, well, I can make that work for you. So he got me that. And I called some friends for goggles and I called a friend for an office. Everything I did to start this company, all of it, and I don't think I've ever talked about this before, but every single piece of this, that little room and that helicopter and the dolly for Brad at Heliwag. And I mean, I call this guy, doesn't know me from Adam and tell him what I'm doing. goes, I'd really like you to have one of these things.

gave me a really great deal to get that first heli-wagon. If it wasn't for those people trusting me and giving me the opportunity, Helicopter Institute would not be here today, Halsey. It wouldn't even be a thought because it took all of that and the people to trust what we were trying to do and give us an opportunity. And that's literally what Helicopter Institute is today. We do the fact we have three legs to the stool. We have

The advanced training, which is where we do, again, I want to say an alternative to factory, alternative to OEM training. So we offer all the Airbus and the Bell and set the other. We also do the advanced training with regard to the Navy and the Marine Corps. We actually have the Navy copter program. And I should say Navy more so the Marine. It was just on my mind for something I just did. But at the end of the day, the Navy and the Coast Guard have been here with our copter program, which is our contractor operated pilot training rotary.

First time the Navy's ever gone outside of Southfield. They're doing 50 hours here. It's still an exploratory program. We won that. It's crazy. And that's a whole nother story. But we also do the Academy-style training. So that's our Robinson training. And so from a large government agency that needed to train pilots, they came in and they said, hey, we know you're doing our Airbus and our Bell products, but we're short a bunch of pilots. Can you help us do these add-ons?

Today, I've been an examiner with the FAA for 32 years. I understood it. I understood what they needed. We wrote a program that in eight weeks took them from a commercial add-on, instrument add-on, NVG initial, and a transition into either the 407, the 500, or the A-Star. We've done quite a few pilots through that now, and they're all flying that little bit of helicopter time, and they're out doing the job. The ability to take all of these things in training.

Halsey J Schider (20:28.866)
build them together and plug that into a problem solving ability to the customer, listen to the voice of the customer, come up with a solution. That's what Helicopter Institute is. We are a customer solution provider. Yeah, mean, it's incredible what you've done and your reputation and your business's reputation is certainly very high within this industry. From the entrepreneurial side, I'm always fascinated with business folks because

It's easy to look at you now and see all the aircraft and all the success and everything and say, man, it's lucky. Obviously, you've just prepared yourself to receive so much good luck because you put yourselves in positions. I think that's what people don't always realize. You picked up the phone and you cold called and you asked for something and you sold yourself and it worked.

But you also took a risk, right? Like when you went to go and lease that first 407, leases aren't for free, right? No. And they usually come, leases usually come not just by hourly, but it's usually a percent of the aircraft value on a monthly basis. So mean, whether you're flying one hour or you're flying a hundred hours, you're still paying a flat rate. And it can be quite expensive for an aircraft like a 407.

So what was it that you had in yourself? What kind of belief and trust did you have in yourself to feel comfortable to pull that trigger? Because that's a big investment. You know, the first thing that happened with me is I, anyone that knows my whole background, Bell Helicopter, the Bell Training Academy was my dream job. That was where I wanted to go and stop. And while there, I got caught up in a couple opportunities to help do other things. And I,

went out, one was Silver State. And at one point I had been connected with some folks that were there and they actually paid Bell to send me to an instructor training thing while I was working at Bell. And at the same time, I didn't have a degree. So I quit school in ninth grade. And a lot of you don't know that. I had to leave school. We got pregnant real early. Sorry to my wife for talking about all that. But at the end of the day, it happened early. And so after ninth grade, I got out.

Halsey J Schider (22:50.966)
Really, when I quit school, everything that was working for me at the airport, everybody shut the door and they wouldn't let me back on the airport anymore. They told me you got to go back to school. So I tried, went back and I just, hated it. It wasn't for me and I just couldn't make it all work with life. So a lady by the name of Peggy Lang, and this answer, I'll get to your answer, I promise in just a second. This is amazing. Keep going.

A lady by the name of Peggy Lang, she was the director of the Palm Beach Community College back then. And she also flew for a car dealer, guy by the name of Roger Dean. And they had a Citation 3. And she had taken an interest in me because I had been working line service. I was always working summer in aviation. And so she called me knowing that I had left school the second time and she left a message at my house. She said, I want you in my office tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. And so was on a Tuesday. So I was there like I was supposed to be.

And as I walked into her office, she gave me a piece of paper that said Boca Raton High School, 6 PM Thursday night. She signed me up for the GED and she said, be there, get it done. And so I went in, took the test and I passed it. So now I got a GED, at least I've done something and all the opportunities started, but I kept, had a GED. So I've worked for a lot of big companies up to the point where I worked for Bell. And when I was at Bell, I was there for a little while and they put me in this thing called a, it's like a-

High Potential Employee Program, and I was one of the few pilots, if only pilot, that had been in that program. And so I was there, and I had to go to mentoring every couple of weeks with our COOs or our CEO, Abel at the time. And I went this one day to meet with our COO on commercial. His name is Mike Blake and great guy. So I went in there, it was a Saturday, and he was wearing a t-shirt that said Harvard Business School on it. And I said, so you went to Harvard? He goes, no, no, I just did some leadership training there. said, So he said, where did you go to school?

I said, what do mean? He what degree do you have? I said, I don't have a degree. I got a GED and he looked at me like I had a third eye. He's like, well, how did you get here? said, well, you never asked. You guys only asked about flying. You never asked me about my education. And so that opportunity got me to the point where I needed to go to get an education. did. I ended up going for an executive MBA program from there that got recommended. had to pay for it at Texas Christian University. And that's a whole nother story.

Halsey J Schider (25:12.226)
just a lot of opportunities to go back to what that meant to me. So when I left Bell in 09, my Bell relationship because of Helicopter Institute kind of stopped. I've been their competitor. And to this day, we still don't have a relationship and I can't go back for training. None of my staff is really allowed to go go over there for training, which is really kind of a bum deal. And the only reason I bring that up is you asked about

the entrepreneurial spirit. There's risk in the entrepreneurial spirit. When I left Bell and started Helicopter Institute, not everybody in the industry is going to hug me and say, is a great idea. Why? Because the answer I had for my wife when she asked me what I wanted to do, nobody else was training in the 407 and I love the 407. I know it like the back of my hand and I want to offer an alternative and it worked. Well, the folks that had the exclusive element on the 407 training,

for the most part, they're my competitor. And so it makes sense now that they see me as a competitor, even though I bleed bell, right? Just the reality. So as an entrepreneur spirit, you're always driving. And I'll be honest, the reason for me, I built what I have is I got a little upset at myself. I got upset at the industry, not at people, not at people. Just of where I am and what I want to do.

And I've always said one thing and I believe it and I hope everyone that ever watches this says the same thing is why not me? Why not me? If you do everything right and you work really, really hard and you have vision and you have dreams, you have the things that you want to do and the ideas that you have and you can't sleep at night because at two o'clock your brain's working like a ping pong table with the things that you're yearning for, why not you? Why can't you do the things that you dream of? And I think the idea is that people give up on that.

They lose it and they think that the financial aspect that you bought up is insurmountable. Well, I can tell you, and I apologize for this longer piece, but my first R22 that I got, the very first one that I got when Palm Beach helicopters started back in the 90s, I called a guy named Tony Hicks. He owned Volar helicopters and he had bought a whole bunch of R22s from South America and he was overhauling them. And I went to him and I said, you know, I know you're in Lauderdale and I'm in West Palm Beach. I don't think we'll compete.

Halsey J Schider (27:35.598)
But I really want to start this business. Do you think you can help me with an R22?" And he thought about it. He called me back a couple of days later. He said, here's the deal. I want 10 % on my money. So that's fair. But here's how I'm going to get my 10%. He said, you're going to pay me this much per hour for the helicopter, almost like a lease, but it'll be a $1 buyout on the back end. And we're going to add 10 % to that number. And if you just pay me hourly with that 10%, at the end of that, at the time it was 2,000 hours, not 2,200, but at the end of its lifespan, you own the asset. It's all yours.

I said, well, how much you want down? He said, nothing. Keys are right here. Come and get it. Start the business and let's work together. And not together in a company sense, but together in the relationship of getting the aircraft. That's how I got my first helicopter. so for people to say it's insurmountable, it's not. It's networking, it's friends, it's having a passion and a belief that people around you believe you. They instill their confidence in you so much because you bring-

that essence of confidence back to them. And also they believe you're, I'm going to say an expert in your field. If they trust and believe who and what you are, they want to invest in not only your future, but the things that you can do for the future. And that's a big part of it is having the right people to get to that point. And that's literally my story just keeps happening over and over and over again. When it goes back to the network. And so I can't stress enough, just the importance.

of having that community. As you said, it takes a village. Whether that's in your personal life and you're raising kids and it's nice to have your parents close, that's a village, right? But even in my day-to-day business, mean, I still, most of my daily thinking, I have to talk myself into believing like, man, I'm actually doing what I'm doing, right? Because sometimes it just seems so crazy that I've been able to build what I've been able to build and...

in a short time and I think it's kind of a common entrepreneurial thing to feel is kind of like this imposter syndrome a little bit. I definitely know that it's kind of where I'm at I think in my journey right now as a business owner. But it's incredible to hear your story, to hear that it's not always smooth. And I think you're exactly right. I think that a lot of people were just raised to not necessarily

Halsey J Schider (29:58.478)
believe or invest in ourselves. I've always had this theory and I think I've maybe talked about on the podcast before, but I always thought it'd be fun to go to a high school investing class or maybe even a college level basic investing class and ask people, hey, name all the investments. Name every type of investment that you can have. And I think people will say, you can invest in the stock market. You can invest in real estate. You could do hard money lending. That's a great investment. Get 10 to 14%. You can do all these things.

I'm not convinced that someone would raise their hand and say, you can invest in yourself. four years ago, I decided to invest in myself and I don't know what the percentage gain has been, but it's been, started with $5,000 and it's a lot more now, right? And so it's a thousand plus percent, I'm sure. So to me, investing in yourself is the most important thing. And I don't think we're taught that. And so I think it's great to have people like you

that clearly invested in yourself. You believed in yourself and that belief in yourself gave perception to the outside that, hey, we can trust this guy and good on those people for helping, right? And I'm sure that you now do that in your career of you're probably always looking out and helping new entrepreneurs and businesses and things. it's really cool to hear that and to hear it in my industry is really special because...

There's so many great business leaders in the helicopter space and you're truly one of them. So thank you for that. That was, like you said, it's a long answer, but that's probably one of the best answers I think I've ever had on this podcast of a story. So I really thank you for sharing that. Getting a little bit away from the business side and that side, you've been a DPE for 32 years, I think you said. Obviously,

Teaching is in your DNA and it's something that you and your team are doing daily. What are some of the training gaps that you see within this industry? You're flying with so many different people. I'm curious to hear from you of like, what are we doing great as an industry when it comes to teaching pilots? And what are areas that we're lacking and we should really put more emphasis in?

Halsey J Schider (32:15.79)
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No, that's a good question. I think there's so many things and over the years you'll have... I always try and be very cautious Halsey with this answer because have you ever had the people that say, man, in my day we did... That's what I'm trying to be very careful. That's not the answer that I want to bring because things have changed over the years. Technology has changed over the years. And we find as an industry,

and industry leaders and so forth, that with change, you get good and bad, right? Change is not always great. Change can be good and bad. And so, when you go back to the training market, one of the things that's very, very important to look at is that it's a pay to play game. So, if we're talking about the non-military path, right, the civilian path, and the more and more you add to the industry and you're looking at a private pilot, an instrument rating, a commercial pilot, just go into the certification process,

The more more you add to it, we haven't really changed the hours. We're still doing a 40-hour program that was the same back in the 80s when we had Laurence C to what we're doing today and with the ForeFlight and all these other things that are there. Well, there's a much more robust industry that we haven't really told anybody that, it takes a little bit more time to learn this stuff. And so, are we seeing more mediocrity maybe? Are we seeing a little bit of a sterilation in the training programs that good enough is okay?

And I would say that I see that quite a bit. You have the ones that are still the rock stars, don't get me wrong, that are really, great at what they do. some people out there just need more training on some of these things. And we also see that the checking world is changing. You have a hard time finding pilot examiners, as one example. It's a real shortage on the entire industry. The FAA

Halsey J Schider (34:41.23)
although all due respect to their role, can also be a bit of a hindrance to the industry from a perspective of the requirements they set forth. Give you an example. Not only is it delayed getting a checkride, but they can't help because of the simple fact that they can't do the checkrides anymore. The FAA as an organization has basically policyed themselves right out of the cockpit.

When was last time you saw an FA inspector sitting in the front of the aircraft giving a certification based exam? Never. Don't see it. You might see them do work 35 things with a rated aviator that they're going in in that regard where they're flying along. However, more likely than not, they'll ride along doing certain checks for a check pilot, giving a check to another pilot, and they're really just becoming a data entry person. Is that the right direction? Well, that's up to them, of course, to do that.

It requires us as an industry to have the ability to self-police a little more and to be able to get some things done. And I'll give you an example also, the flight instructor certificate. The flight instructor certificate now has removed its expiration date. Still got to do all the training and check the elements involved. None of that's changed, but it's no longer a requirement to change the card. Well, that should have been done years ago. We've been talking about, I wrote an article about it five or six years ago.

Those are the things where we're dealing with emotion, not necessarily a relevant policy. Nobody wanted to see the expiration date go away. They say, how do they know that your instructor's current? Well, ask them, a student, you know what I mean? Ask, how do know somebody has a current flight review? It's exactly the same situation. It is exactly the same. So finally, the FA is coming back around. So to answer the question without getting into specific details, except for one,

I would say where we're seeing a lot is like the autorotations as an example. At one point, there's a lot of folks saying, well, the autorotations, have tremendous number of accidents related to practicing a maneuver that's not actually occurring. We don't see the large number of engine failures and so forth. But at the end of the day, it is a maneuver that needs to be taught. It needs to be taught safely. And that is another thing when you go to a group of 10 instructors, you're going to find

Halsey J Schider (37:06.36)
totally different ways of either how they do it, how they were taught to do it. You fly with people, you'll see different ways in that regard. I will just tell you that we need to do a better job of training our instructors. That's a critical piece. need to... Absolutely. We need to create a little bit more of an opportunity for those instructors to have different levels. You said something a minute ago and you said that when I first became an instructor out at Hillsboro-

I was only allowed to do certain things and then for a while and then I grew into it. Well, we don't do that. Our instructors, the day they get their flight instructor certificate, is expected to basically do anything and everything within the ACS, previous PTS. And I think that's wrong. That's a lack of mentorship. And problem that we have today is that we have flight schools out there where the most senior person is a flight instructor, maybe 700 hours. And hours is not everything, but hours reflects-

in the cockpit experience. And if that individual doesn't have a senior person with them to give them the administrative knowledge, right? Don't do this because I did. They're learning the same lesson all over again that all of us did 20, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. And one thing that's a fact, we are not seeing a new helicopter accident. We've not created a new way to crash an aircraft. It just keeps happening over and over again. And organizations like the US helicopter safety team and

and folks like that, they're giving the data, but what are we doing with the data? One of the facts are that you don't have a data point for the accident that doesn't happen, doesn't exist. So how do we embrace the ones that are doing it right and proliferate that throughout the industry and embrace that side of it? And I think that's one of the biggest issues. To answer your question, it's really not one singular thing.

It's just we can't sterilize the industry into safe operations. You can't do that. And we're seeing trying to do that more and more. Yeah. No, I mean, it makes total sense. know, and I've been around the industry long enough to see, you know, good, bad and kind of everything in between. I get what you're saying about, you know, being able to do the maneuvers, you know, right away as a CFI. get that point for sure. One point that really changed for me is I actually had the opportunity when I was at Hillsboro.

Halsey J Schider (39:32.13)
I was the assistant chief and my boss ended up being a guy that came back from the industry, guy named Marcus. He had 10 or 12 years of industry flying. That's when my learning just exponentially shot up from maneuver flying, so flying autorotations, to take off profile. He would have me take off in the R22 and he would explain it to me like...

Hey, your next job when you're flying tours at Mount St. Helens in the 206 and you're weighted down and you're at high DA and it's summertime, this is what your takeoff's gonna feel like in that jet ranger. And we're gonna do it right now in the R22. And he started to build this whole thing. I got so lucky to fly with him a ton because to me that really made me more well-rounded. I feel like I got a good education and then I got his education kind of as a working flight instructor. And so I think you're right. I think a lot of flight schools

Unfortunately, their leadership roles, their chief pilots, their assistant chief pilots, their training directors, their safety directors, they're usually, from what I can see, pretty well-intentioned people, guys and gals, wanting to do the right things, but their experience in the cockpit just isn't quite there. They might have 500 hours, they might have 1,000, maybe 700. And I agree, I think that that's a big problem, but-

It's hard to incentivize someone like Marcus in that case to come back to a flight school environment, whether it's pay or the lack of pay or whatever it may be. so, I think that flight training schools and I think that we have to do better. I think we all have to do better. It seems like that's what you're probably doing at helicopter Institute is you're bringing people in that are actually helicopter pilots, guys and gals that have been doing it for a long time, I'm guessing. And so that's probably...

It's interesting, I didn't mean to interrupt, but it's interesting you said that because that's something that I think I don't. I'll give an example like our, I really, really like to spend time train the trainer, right? Instructional intervention. That's something that's just not done enough. And how to get yourself out of trouble. And aeronautical decision-making is one piece, but instructional decision-making is a whole other that you never hear of. When do you hear instructional decision-making? Now, whatever talks about it.

Halsey J Schider (41:52.002)
But if the instructor is leading the student into a path where the recovery is really, really challenging, and minimal options, things of that nature, the student doesn't know how to say no. They don't really understand that, and they trust the instructor. So the IDM element, the instructional decision making that we see really leads to the majority of our instructional accidents. And so for me to give you an example, whenever I have somebody going out to start teaching touchdown autorotation, so power off landings, those instructors go out by themselves in that aircraft first.

I send them all alone. I don't care if it's an R22 and R44, any aircraft, the 407s, I don't care what it is. A-Star will do the B3s, but the twist grip. But at the end of the day, I want them alone. If you can't do it on your own, you shouldn't be doing it with someone else. You should be able to get in there, have that conversation, understand the aircraft, have the confidence. In all the years I've done that, I mean, it's been a long, long time. There's a lot of people probably watching this that have been a part of those flights. I want them to go out and-

really get to know themselves. There's something that a lot of instructors don't get a chance to know who they are as instructors. And like you said, you had an epiphany at one point. Some people never really get that and the confidence just doesn't come with it. And I think it's very important that that happens. And you got to a leadership structure that listens. And the other thing is we see a lot of organizations today that-

maybe not the pilots in the pay to play process, right? But if you go out to some law enforcement agencies and things of that nature, it is not uncommon for an agency to send somebody for a CFI in an R-22, R-44, or a Schweitzer, whatever. They'll go to some, a piston aircraft or a lower dollar aircraft, get the rating. Now they come back and they say, oh, well, you're an Airbus pilot. You're a Bell pilot. Well, since you're already qualified, you're now the instructor in that aircraft. But they never teach them how to teach

in that aircraft. So they never truly learn how to teach in the craft they're going, the instructional intervention elements, things like And we see the victims of those processes, either by incidents, accidents, or just poorly trained people. for me, I go all over the country flying with folks and a lot of these agencies with advanced training, and you see that. You see that there's been issues. They know it.

Halsey J Schider (44:13.934)
their leadership structure, maybe can't do anything about it. But at the end of the day, the holistic aspect of our industry is simply this. Do not sterilize the training program to accommodate your lack of a palette for touchdowns. If you need to do touchdowns, do them. If you need to do autos, do them. I that's the biggest thing. If you have instructors that don't have the skills, get them trained. If you have a pilot that maybe an instructor has never signed someone off for a check ride before, maybe have another instructor

Go fly with them just to check yourself, checks and balances. These are the things that are self-policing elements that we can do. And the whole goal is to improve the quality in the education. And at end of the day, that's really all that matters. Yeah. And no, it's huge. And I like that, by the way, sending people by themselves. It's something I've never done. I've never done a full down by myself. I've done a lot of full downs. I taught full downs for a long time, but I don't think I've ever done one.

in a helicopter by myself. think that's an interesting point. You have to have some other tidbits of kind of different ways that you might do something. What are some other things that you do to help your instructors become better instructors? Communicate. We talk and talk in different layers. I don't talk to everybody. I have leads, and I have layers of management within the staffing. And I love to take...

the new instructor that we bring in, we're not always self-trained in here. Organic growth, it's not always an opportunity. Matter of fact, for our Navy copter program, an ad's going out here soon. I need to hire a bunch more. And so, what I look for is they require a thousand hours of total time, but only a hundred hours of dual given. I like to have more dual given. My reasoning is simply this. If I'm going to put somebody in a situation where they've got to sign somebody off solo,

A real flight instructor, just so you know, and I'll probably upset people, I don't care. Here's how I feel about it. A real, true, honest to goodness flight instructor is one that has signed somebody off solo. They've put their name in somebody's log book and they watch that person go out there and fly away all alone in an aircraft. That is the defining moment of a flight instructor. Do you remember your first solo sign off? Absolutely. Remember it just like yesterday.

Halsey J Schider (46:30.584)
Sure, remember it. I remember what I put on the shirt. As a matter of fact, I still talk to that person today. That's awesome. Yeah, same. He started a tangent, but that's a funny thing that you say. I've been fortunate to sign off a lot of solos. Had one scary one actually where one of my students did something funky. Luckily, no harm, no foul, but I think I poopooed a little bit. My first sign off was a Jean-Frederic Steffan, French guy, still in the industry. killing it. I think he's over in the Middle East right now.

But he came and visited my wife and I last year. And it's just funny how you remember that stuff. Christian Husby was my second, then Adam, and then so on. It's like you have kind of a bit of a soft spot. Sorry, I had to interrupt there. No, you didn't interrupt. This is what I told you. That's the whole point. And so for me, when we start talking about flight instructors, that's the key to really teaching. Everything after that's the regulatory teaching, right? The flight reviews, the proficiency checks. Got it.

But at the end of the day, really teaching somebody to fly and hand them the keys and have them go out there. Well, to me, it's no different than signing somebody off solo. I sign them off solo for a touchdown. It's just they happen to be doing it a little bit different. And there's some of the watchers that say, well, is he sitting in the left seat by themselves? Well, we can't do that anymore. That stopped a long time ago. Used to be very possible. mean, there was a couple of accidents that really came from that is why it changed, where the flight controls came out in somebody's hands. So now they require a...

the solo seat to be in bolted in control. So that was one of the historical changes over the years. Everybody thinks it's all weight and balance, but that's not always the case. Interesting. I didn't know that. That's a bad day when your cyclic comes out. Well, yeah, over a cup of coffee, I'll tell the story that actually happened in Bell 206 years ago. I would like to hear that. Yeah. And I too have had the scary moment with it. I had my one student that, well, several have done weird things, but the one that really got me.

I was about to just take my CFI certificate and sit it out on the desk when this happened, but I had a young man that I failed him because I told him to pay attention to the manifold pressure when he was picking up. Well, if I'm out of it, the manifold pressure is a complete non-event. That was it. Eyeballs looking at it and the aircraft rotated up this way backwards. I was behind the aircraft way back there and kind of chewing on a piece of grass and the right skid, he realized it.

Halsey J Schider (48:49.336)
When he realized it, he yanked it off the ground, spun around three times to the right and slammed it back on the ground. And there's just dirt and debris and stuff. And I start laughing. I mean, I'm cracking up. But my laugh is out of complete fear of what just occurred. And I walked up and of course, he's looking at me like, my God, well, we went around the pattern and I ended up getting him soloed. But I learned at that moment, I will never solo anybody in the grass again, ever. Interesting. Because if you're on pavement, they can slide around, right?

But because of the fact that he was in the grass, it had a pivot point almost immediately. So that really taught me from an instructional intervention perspective is, it's a lot safer to do this from pavement and have them land on it where it can just move around a little bit. Because again, it's their first solo. The second thing I did from that day is I don't solo anybody anymore until they're into their training. I do all the dual. I knock out all the dual, make them as safe as they possibly can be. They do everything.

then I solo them for all their time. Why do we put people in an aircraft alone when they're marginal at best if something ever happened to them in that aircraft? Why not let them get all the dual possible, get their solo, do their test prep, and send them to take the check? Little things like that over the years that we've made modifications because literally there's no reason to do it earlier other than pride. Pride is the only reason. It doesn't cost them anymore. So it's-

It makes a lot of sense to me, to be honest. And I think it's important to the nuances of everything, right? Little things that can make big differences. Not soloing a student in grass compared to asphalt. Why? Obviously, it's just easier to catch a skid on the dirt or the grass. It's just those little things that you can change that have to increase safety by a large margin. And I agree. I mean, I'm sure you're very connected in the industry.

Do you ever get pushback from people that say that you should solo earlier? What is the counter argument? Because to me, honestly, it seems like to be a no-brainer. It's a great idea. Well, there's always people are going to push back. There's no idea that's 100 % ever embraced. You've got to pick and choose your whys and why you do things. And we can have a debate and things of that nature. But to answer the why of certain people's opinions, I can't always do that. But are there people out there that say it? Sure. I also don't like anyone teaching hovering over grass.

Halsey J Schider (51:16.694)
because if they're over grass, they can catch a skid if they get a little low to the ground. How many times have you gotten really close to the ground because they go the wrong way with the collective potentially or things like that? Do it on pavement. It'll just skip off the ground. doesn't catch a pivot point. All of those things come from a lot of years of teaching. I still do it all the time. mean, a lot of years in watching accidents and I was on the founding team of the International Helicopter Safety Team in 2005, which we finally kicked it off in 2006.

We did a lot of research on accidents in the early days. And then I go back to the same accidents that I see today. If you go back and look at hovering accidents, they're the same. And very often you'll see a pivot point was because of contact with the ground or the setting of the world. And why are we doing it still? Because we're not changing anything. And so to answer your question, are there people that will do it? Sure. But people, your viewers have a responsibility to themselves in the industry, right? People that render opinion and do nothing toward the industry.

I don't really listen to all that much. So for me early on, I remember I always wanted to be with HAI, now VAI. I wanted to be a part of something. And so in 2005, the same time we did the International Helicopter Safety Team, we also started the training committee that we had for HAI. And I was fortunate enough to be the chair of that committee. We had debates on a global basis of the people in these rooms about these maneuvers. We had very in-depth conversations.

And I remember thinking to myself, the board of directors for HAI is like, man, why not me? I would love to do that. And I ran for it and I got on the board. It's been almost a decade now. And you can affect change. Absolutely. When you put yourself out there and give of your time and give of yourself. And again, it's still part of the networking world. There's different layers to it. That's the stuff right there that when you have these conversations and you say, well,

Did it have a... Yeah, it had a change. I remember being invited to the helicopter flying handbook rewrite. We had that conversation. I was there for that and there were meetings involved. If you weren't involved, you will not get the invitation. If you're not interested and passionate and being a part of it, and that's why I encourage everybody, be a part of the working committee or a working group or a industry council. Do more with the safety teams. Talk about this stuff.

Halsey J Schider (53:42.036)
and make phone calls. Call guys like me or others that have no problem having conversations. I get calls multiple times a week from people that are building their bench. Their bench being, are my confidants, the people that help out. So I think it's important that all of your viewers know they can have these conversations and help make change too based on their beliefs and what drives them to embrace the industry. Absolutely. I've actually not been great at that myself throughout the years.

I think I'm a responsible pilot. take flying very professionally, from a professional standpoint, but I've never been a loud voice until I started the podcast actually. And again, the podcast I started for really kind of different reasons than how it's actually turned into, which is I think the beauty of things, starting something with one thought and then it kind of goes into another direction. So now I do have, I feel like I have a responsibility to talk about the industry, the good, the bad, the ugly.

Not just talk about it, but see how we can influence change. And I that by bringing up some of these topics, whether it's talking to guys like you or recently talked to, I was in Europe and I'm totally blanking on his name, but he's part of VAI and he does the, he's advocating with the government. Cade? Cade Clark. Yeah, Cade, thank you. Talking to guys like him and seeing, learning what he's doing. I'm a pilot, I've been in the helicopter industry for years.

And I actually didn't know what HAI, now VAI, really was doing. I really didn't know. And part of that is because I never asked. I never tried to engage. And I don't know why. I'm a people guy, I networking. And so one of my kind of call to actions this past year and moving into my career forward is engaging more with the community, whether it's part of the safety team or now VAI.

I'm wanting to be more involved in those things because like you said, it's just kind of cheap otherwise, right? If you have an opinion and you're just talking about it but you're not doing anything about it, then you kind of feel cheap. So I'm personally excited. And as Randy said, call to the listeners. Like you guys, guys and gals out there, you guys, whether you're learning now or you've been in the industry, you will have an opportunity to have a voice. But if you don't exercise it, if you don't...

Halsey J Schider (56:09.486)
take part of activities like VAI, going to the expo and going to the courses and connecting with people like Randy, then the change might never happen. Big change, the way, VAI. What's the response been for you rebranding from HAI to VAI?

Halsey J Schider (56:31.608)
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email sales at sellacopter.com. Sellacopter, list it, sell it, done. Other than misspelling it many times on papers that I'm writing, know, the response has been pretty good. You know, you got to put in perspective 75 years, 75 years. And what a lot of people don't know is just prior to HAI, there was a forming of a lot of folks, know, important, Carl Brady.

When you look at that, you look at Igor Sikorsky, even Charles Lindbergh back then were a part of the original organization, not HAI, but the original called the Twirlybirds. The Twirlybirds were founded by helicopter pilots that had flown prior to VJ Day in 1945. That's when they were flying helicopters. They formed this little group, right? They realized in the 50s that, if we don't change the membership requirement, this group isn't going to last very long.

They changed it, had to be a helicopter pilot, or least solo 20 years prior to membership and so forth. Well, the last meeting of the Twirlybirds was in Anaheim at the 75th anniversary of Helicopter Association International. And a lot of those folks were a part of the original Helicopter Association of America. It all formed in California. California was the root of all of it. So now with VAI, why did it happen? Well, a lot of it came from guys like Cade.

If you go on the hill and you start talking helicopters, things are changing. The regulations are changing. Everything's vertical lift. mean, that's really where it's at now. And because the vehicles are changing and the way we do business is changing and the missions for Dull and Dangerous are changing. So VAI had to take a lead effort to represent everyone in the vertical lift industry. so Vertical Aviation International was the name of choice.

Halsey J Schider (58:56.354)
We had HeliExpo for years and years, right? And when you look at HeliExpo, helicopter exposition, it just didn't match what we were doing and not having any disrespect. You don't just want to throw any name out there. And so we hired consultants. There were a lot of people within the HAI board that came in and did presentations. And one thing that resonated is that, what is it that brings people to these conventions? What's the demographic? What's the energy? The energy, what do people want to get out of it, right?

We did not copy the name, that wasn't the case, but there's a similar Comic-Con that's out there. A lot of folks laugh and they smile. Man, the demographics all over, it's all for the... And really Verticon measured the same when it related to the folks making recommendations and embracing the name. so VAI, Vertical Aviation International, Verticon, Verticon 2025 here in Dallas, right in my town. That's how it all came about and we're...

I can't tell you, man, being a part of a name, a brand change, and some historical things like that, it is just so amazing. And that's why I tell your viewers, man, if you want to be something, you want to be a part of it, get in on these ground floors because by year, by year, by decade, by decade, you never know what you're going to have your fingers on in the touch points. Yeah, no, it's absolutely incredible. And you're making those decisions. You're a part of that decision making. There's going to be some new leadership, as I read recently, on Vertical Daily.

So I'm sure you guys as a board are now going through and going through that whole process. And again, you're part of that, right? You get to be an instrumental piece of that. VAI is so much fun. Verticon, HAI, formerly, course. Probably I call it like the helicopter Christmas. I absolutely love going. Last year was electric. It really was. 75 years to the show in Anaheim, back in Anaheim, and then with the big rebranding.

It was so much fun. We did in-person podcasting for the first time as well, which was just super cool. I got to talk to a lot of heavy hitters. VAI is actually a sponsor of the Helicopter podcast, which is pretty cool. I really appreciate not just the sponsorship, but I'm actually super excited to continue to get more involved with VAI. My talk with Cade hasn't been released yet. It might be released by the time this episode is out. If you're listening and you haven't checked it out,

Halsey J Schider (01:01:20.974)
when it comes out, Cade Clark, does the governmental affairs with VAI. Very fascinating, right? Outstanding human being, by the way. Just a So nice. You I loved about Cade is he was so awesome. I kind of started to joke with him because after every question, he said, that's a great question. And I was like, man, thank you so much. Every time you did it earlier, actually, in one of my earlier questions, that's a good question. I'm like, oh, good. That's my affirmation that I'm doing okay. So I really appreciated that from Cade.

And I appreciate the years of service. I'm excited to connect with you and maybe talk about VAI in my future as well and kind of see what that looks like. It's certainly an organization that I'm excited to continue to learn about and potentially even be a part of in the future. I can tell you that real quick, just at Verticon 2025, one of the things that you can do, and I'll just say this quickly, you can affect change and opportunity if you're a part of it. This year at Verticon 2025,

Last time we were in Dallas, I had always wanted to do charter flights into HeliExpo. And so I brought it up. We had the capability. It was in our hometown. We did the first charter flights during the show. We had a great time doing it and in partnership with VHAI at the time. This year, I've always wanted to do training at the show. So this year we have the AS350, the Bell 505 and Bell 407 recurrent training taking place at the show. People can come in. Instead of coming to my office, they go to the show.

It's recurrent only, but they can do the recurrent ground school the day before the show. They get a free ticket included to day one of the show. And then they go out and do the recurrent flying right from the Dallas Vertiport, which is at the convention center, which we have our aircraft at. So those are the kind of things that are just fun, never been done. You bring it up, you get people, because you're a part of it, you get the opportunity to do some really cool stuff and you really get out there. And I get to do some flying while I'm there, which is what I like to do.

So, those are the things, and that's why I said, be involved. And Halsey, for you, we'd love to have you involved. And just so you know, it's no small feat to have the voice you have with the podcast. Mike knew it, they knew it, that's why you're here. And the fact is, you talk about doing something about safety, we're talking. And it all starts with a conversation. It all starts with a conversation. And so, I thank you for the opportunity to sit here and have these conversations because, as I said, there's...

Halsey J Schider (01:03:48.254)
Every person that watched this today, and not because of anything I had to say, but the fact that you've put together a program, it provokes thought. Aeronautical decision making, instructional decision making, it all starts with provoking thought. That's where safety begins. Safety is the summation. It's not an event. It's not a word we say. It's the summation of the things that we do. I really appreciate the fact that you care about it. To everybody watching,

you know, that they actually care. It's important. Yeah, no, and I really appreciate that. mean, look, at the end of the day, like you, I'm guessing, you know, I've had I've gone to funerals. I've gone to the I've gone to more helicopter related funerals than than family funerals and and non helicopter funerals. And so to me. It's important, man, I don't want to I don't want to have to, you know, I don't want to go.

lose more friends in that. This industry is incredible because of the friendships. If you're a helicopter pilot, and that's why this show works, right? mean, we don't know each other all that well, but we can talk because we have one really cool thing in common, and that's that we understand and have the same shared passion for flying helicopters. I agree. Are you with me? There's nothing better than flying helicopter. I mean, I guess I can think of one thing, but-

Flying helicopters is by far like one of most incredible things that I think a human being can do. And so I think it connects us. And so I've just had so many great relationships. Casey, who you flew with this last week, mean, man, he was in my wedding. He's someone I continue to talk to. I mean, that's all of my friends. And so I think that we all have a piece and, again, the podcast was started for one reason, it's turned into something in a platform that's for so much more. So look, Ray, I know that we're running low on time, but I do have to ask.

I want to ask about a recent story that I read about these pilots that were coming over from Afghanistan, kind of a human interest piece. Explain to my audience that whole situation and what these guys were going through. Absolutely. So I got a phone call and that phone call came from a friend that was in the special ops community out of the 160th Nightstalkers. Called me and said, hey, have you heard of this thing? I said, yeah.

Halsey J Schider (01:06:08.726)
Matter of fact, I have, he goes, look, they're the real deal. These dudes were legit and if there's something we can do to help them out. that was all I needed to hear was that, hey, this is true. And for me right off the get go, that means these guys were helping American soldiers. And to me, that's it. There's a line in the sand. It's our responsibility to help them out. I got more information on it. And there was an organization called the Afghan Resettlement Rescue Group, ARG.

And they were working on getting these guys out. Story's this. These guys are at work, know, Afghanistan, it doesn't even know that the Americans are leaving that morning. I mean, the country, right? And these guys had no idea. All of a sudden, they get a phone call from their connection back to the US Army. I should say the military, because they did a lot more than just the army, that says, hey, today's the end of it all. You guys might need to protect yourselves and figure it out. You're on your own.

And that's as a paraphrase of what happened. Well, on the other side of the airport is the bad guys. And so, these guys, there was a small group, less than 25 or less, and they started burning their stuff. They started getting rid of all their records. They started getting changing clothes, like now, because they needed to blend into the population quickly. And everything that they had for who they were, what they were from a professional documentation standpoint was destroyed.

And the reason they had to do that is they didn't want to become a target. I mean, that's exactly what would have happened. So they started getting out of the country slowly. got out with their... Most of them were single, but a couple of them had wives and at least one child. And they started getting out of the country, getting into other countries. I can't... We still have several, a few of them that are not out yet, so I'm just going to leave what countries out of it. But they went to surrounding countries that would get them protected, if you will.

And then the State Department, along with the FAA and Resettlement Rescue Group, they helped to get them out. So we were able to get them here. Once they got here through the State Department, they were delivered to DFW. We brought them in and they've been here now for several months and we've been trying to get them FAA certified. A lot of them have a lot of combat times, some of them not as much.

Halsey J Schider (01:08:27.982)
But they flew 530s, they flew Blackhawks, and a couple of them flew Mi-17s. And like I said, man, when the call came in, these are the guys that went out to help. You get troops in contact, things of that nature. mean, they were out there pulling guys out and doing everything that needed to happen to help. And we left them there. And to me, I take that very personal. was able to, through Helicopter Institute and my staff, I've got an unbelievable staff. My company has nothing to do with Randy Rolls. So if anybody ever comes here and I'm not here, you're not missing anything, trust me.

They put their arms around it and as of next Friday, the first two guys are taking their FAA check rides. And for all your listeners, I'll tell you something, I've been an examiner a long time, but I don't do check rides for my students here at Helicopter Institute. I have other examiners that come in. I try to avoid that as much as I can not to be the DPE. I don't like it, I can, I'm not training them, but at the end of the day, we try not to do that. So we have an outside DPE that's going to be here.

to give the first two guys their commercial check rides. And once we get them all done, we're going to try and send them out to industry and get them jobs. I mean, it's really cool. It's tremendously humbling to meet people with that background and to be able to help them that much because they deserve it. Well, it's huge. Yeah, and think it's easy. I had a similar, not similar, but I became friends with a gentleman from Afghanistan.

and he helped in the United, he helped with the efforts. He was fighting with our Marines, our Army, and he ended up getting in some trouble in Afghanistan and long story short was able to luckily seek asylum in the United States. And him and I actually had the same birthday the same year and getting to know him and chat with him and hear about his life, it was like, man,

We were born the same exact day and up until this point, our lives couldn't be more different. Talk about a powerful and humbling experience. I actually kind of had like this, man, everyone in Afghanistan is bad type of mentality because I didn't know any better. It's like we're not fighting those people, right? We're fighting the terrorist groups within those, with those countries. It's just wonderful to hear that you have been able to-

Halsey J Schider (01:10:50.894)
get these guys back in the cockpit. Like you said, it's a small thing, but man, has to be huge for them. It has to be so big because they don't typically get opportunities like that. So say what you want about the United States, but man, we have so many luxuries here that so many of these other people don't. So thank you, Randy, to your guys' company for doing that. Absolutely incredible. The 160th, man, those guys are no joke. I listened to Razor 03 by Alan Mack.

And I think Alan chatted with John Gray from the Hanger Z podcast. So if you haven't checked out that podcast, I highly recommend that you do. The Night Stalkers, mean, talk about probably the most badass helicopter pilots doing things. So, Randy, look at that. An hour and 10 minutes, we went over time. Perfectly acceptable when you're talking to a guy like yourself. Thank you so much for joining the podcast. I'm gonna throw out an open invite.

I know that you're popular at VAI, especially the first one, and doing training, but I think we should try to connect while we're there. And I would love to podcast with you, maybe even in helicopter podcasts. I'm just going to throw it out there. Maybe we could do a little training. Maybe you could even recurrent me in the 407, and we can document and share that experience. Again, just throwing it out there. Randy, thank you so much for coming on the Helicopter Podcast. Thank you very much to everybody out there. Thank you for listening. Really appreciate the opportunity. I'll see you in Dallas.

Absolutely. And to our listeners, thank you so much. Please come check out VAI this year in Dallas. It's going to be the first ever VertiCon. I know the energy is going to be super exciting. We're going to be podcasting again live from the Vertical booth. So you got to come and check it out. To our listeners, keep listening, keep sharing, keep subscribing. It's because of you that we get to do this. And of course, to MHMPublishing and all of our sponsors, including VAI, thank you so much. We'll catch you on the next episode.

of the Helicopter Podcast.

Halsey J Schider (01:13:07.96)
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