The Helicopter Podcast
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The Helicopter Podcast
Episode #176: HEMS Safety, Data, and Decision-Making | Steve Soliz of Bell
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Welcome to The Helicopter Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS!
In this episode of The Helicopter Podcast, Halsey Schider sits down with Steve Soliz from Bell to discuss the evolving landscape of helicopter emergency medical services.
Steve brings a global perspective to the conversation, breaking down how HEMS operations are adapting through advancements in avionics, autopilot systems, and data-driven mission planning. The discussion focuses on how these tools are reducing pilot workload while improving situational awareness and overall mission safety.
They also explore the differences between North American and European EMS operations, including how regulatory environments, aircraft selection, and medical protocols are shaped by data and operational constraints. Steve highlights the importance of crew resource management, emphasizing how communication and trust between pilots and medical crews play a critical role in preventing incidents and managing risk.
This episode is a grounded look at how technology, human factors, and decision-making continue to shape safer, more effective EMS operations worldwide.
Thank you to this episode's sponsors, Hillsboro Heli Academy, Precision Aviation Group and Metro Aviation.
Welcome to the helicopter podcast, your go-to source for all things rotorcraft. I'm Halsey Scheiter, bringing you the stories, insights, and conversations from around the helicopter industry. Whether you're a seasoned pilot, a maintainer, or you're just passionate about helicopters, this is the podcast for you. What was the aircraft that you were flying in? 412. Yeah, the 412. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Dual patient capability, right? Actually, four patient capability in case of a mass casualty. The most we ever did was actually, it was funny, uh, not funny ha ha, but funny, interesting is that uh we flew uh during one of the hurricanes. We went down to UTMB and we were helping uh evacuate their uh NICU. We had nine souls on board when we called off that day, and everybody was because we had all those kids lined up on on these on the litters and just to evacuate and bring them to children's hospital in San Antonio.
SPEAKER_05Incredible. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So it was a good program, great mission. You know, you get really spoiled when you're in an aircraft. It is like a pickup truck, you know, the 412 as a beast.
SPEAKER_02This episode of the helicopter podcast is made possible with the generous sponsorship from Hillsborough Heli Academy, Metro Aviation, and Precision Aviation Group. Guys, what's going on? It's Ozzy Shatter with the Helicopter Podcast, and we are coming at you from Cologne, Germany. Got the red light on, which means I'm recording. I got Steve Salis with me. We just talked for like two minutes, uh, and uh we thought we were podcasting, but you know, the roadcaster, Steve, doesn't work very well uh when you don't press record. That's right. The second time I've done that. Luckily, it's been uh only just a couple minutes in. So, Steve, I apologize for the rookie move there. Uh, these intro uh podcasts are still a little foreign, right? We usually do the the online, so bear with me. But we were just uh talking about uh a little bit of my experience with Bell. Steve, of course, is with Bell. Uh big fan of the of the 407. That's kind of uh well, actually, my first Bell experience was a jet ranger. Love the Jet Ranger. Yep. I was flying a jet ranger um at Mount St. Helens, out of all places. Wow. Doing uh tours. We would fly all the way up to the the top of the crater and back. I think we're about 10,000 feet uh you know, altitude. And uh man, we would we would make it right up there no problem. Uh I actually flew a long ranger for Air Medical, uh, which was actually awesome. Uh I flew at uh several bases in Texas uh that were still using the long ranger, and then I got moved to the 407. So my last full-time flying gig was Air Medical in the in the 407, an incredible product. Uh so fun to fly. Uh and yeah, as I was mentioning, I love selling Bell helicopters, uh, a lot of jet rangers, a lot of long rangers, and and a lot of 407s. I haven't sold the 429 before. Oh, well, it's still early. So I need to, I mean, I've been doing this for eight years. Yeah, I don't know. Uh it's like the the 429 is like my great white buffalo. All right. So I just I had to figure out how to do that, but I'm confident in myself. Absolutely. And uh after the show, I'm actually going down to uh Air Zermott, who's uh in in your booth. Uh Daniel was on the podcast last year, and he's like, Oh, if you're ever in Europe, come visit. And so I called his bluff. I'm gonna go and uh hang out there in Zermott for a few days and uh maybe even do a little flying. So yeah, you won't be disappointed.
SPEAKER_04It's gorgeous there. They have an amazing mission. I'm a big fan of Air Zermott too. Uh, not just because they're big bell proponents and and customers, but they have a very unique mission. These guys uh I come over there with my you know, my background and my knowledge of EMS and trauma in the United States, and I come here and uh these guys are doing so many flights at such high altitude. They're doing over a thousand hoists a year, 80% of them operational, 20% about training. And uh, you know, I'm like, do you guys do this? Do you guys carry this? And you know, here in Europe, there's a really different vibe on mission capabilities because they're not as competitive as they are in the US, interesting, you know, and so these guys will not carry something if there's no data to support it. They won't carry Lucas devices, they won't carry blood, they won't do any of this stuff, they won't be doing in-flight ultrasounds, fast exams, or anything like that because it doesn't make any sense. And I I love that actually practicality. Even the blood part, even the blood part. Interesting, and you know, it's very controversial too. So, like every year, Air Germont has this thing called the uh Big Sick Conference. It's every February, it's held there, and it's mostly physicians and paramedics that attend this, and Bell's a big sponsor of it every year, and uh they talk about you know carrying whole blood, and they don't think that it's the right thing to do in most of Europe. They only think the UK does it because they're trying to be uh, you know, you know, get close to the US type of uh medical uh policies, and they think that just blood components is good enough, like plasma or pack cells or this or that, you know, and which is really interesting. I love I love hearing that because no one's really wrong. You know what works for your mission and if your outcomes are what they need to be, that's that's good for you.
SPEAKER_02What's your take on blood though?
SPEAKER_04Uh well I come back, you know, where I come from in San Antonio, we actually have the institution. Yeah, the Institute of S of uh Surgical Research there and uh with the U.S. Army, and so they did a lot of the blood studies and they do stuff on uh I was actually with San Antonio Air Life for years, and so we started flying with uh whole blood uh approximately I'll say like over 10 years ago. We started flying with it and started the program. Great program there, by the way. And yeah, RIP. Yeah. And uh, you know, and uh the study showed that we were really making a difference, you know. And at one point we actually even were part of a a blood replacement study that uh started and stopped because it was just wasn't going where it needed to be. So geography played a lot in my experience. Being around really, really smart people doing a lot, a lot of good research and work, helped uh bleed over into my uh aviation career.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, interesting. Yeah, we we had an experience at our base where uh the guy got his leg lobbed off in a uh like a pipe jack or something in the oil field. Uh and then crew went and picked him up, uh, put his leg on ice, gave him blood, he survived. And then the San Antonio News actually did like a story on it and the importance of carrying whole blood and things like that. You know, I I'm just a meat servo up front, so I you know, I leave the medical stuff to the professionals, but I was I was actually so impressed when I got into air medical, I didn't understand you know what a paramedic was, what a nurse was, especially in in that type of trauma setting. You know, I I have this belief, you know, I think probably a lot of people do, it's like, you know, doctors are like the you know the highest level of care or whatever. And and then I go into this this new setting and I'm seeing these nurses and paramedics do these incredible things. And we're going into little hospitals and the doctors looking at them like you you intimate them. You know, I I don't want to do it. I'm a foot doctor and I'm just getting paid to be here, you know. Absolutely. You know, it's very it's uh I just have so much respect uh for the men and women that sit in the back of helicopters uh and work on people. I think it's a bit of a thankless job at times. Uh I think the pay could probably be a little bit better. Um because just the skill and the professionalism, I mean, that was the most incredible part. I mean, these the the I never once at my time I worked for Air EvaC. Never once did I have an experience where I I didn't see a uh a medical professional not being professional. I mean, they're just top-notch.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're you're right. And actually that was that's part of the evolution of air medical, right, in the United States. I uh I do part of what I do at Bell, my main job essentially is consulting whenever we have a salesperson that's going to sell an air ambulance, and I work with the customers uh on configuration options and stuff like that. But most of the time, um I will be a brand ambassador and I'll go ahead and give presentations. And one of the things I present on is uh North American hems and the history of it. And and part of that evolution is to your point, like you were talking about, you know, in rural hospitals, they there's a foot doctor, you know, because before they started mandating that they had to be board certified uh, you know, emergency medicine physicians in the ERs uh or nurse practitioners, uh you never knew what you were gonna do when you were when you showed up. You know, there was always a story that they were gonna say they were stable, you're gonna show up and they're half dead, or they said they're critical and they're fine, you know, because they just kind of EMS has a c has like a um kind of belief system and a drive to like let's make my problem somebody else's problem as soon as possible, you know. I need to clear the station out of here and then get them on the helicopter or on the ground ambulance and out of here. And so, you know, we had uh, you know, these teams started training uh, you know, and doing cadaver labs. We were doing cadaver labs in the 90s with the company I was with. It was actually called Critical Air. And they were they were bought out by AirVac. Yeah, Mark Fisher? Yeah, yeah. Mark Fisher was uh we flew together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Mark Fisher was my RDFO uh at Air Air Evac. Yeah. Uh my experience with Mark, man, he was like one of the best managers that I ever had. I'll tangent for a second because I think one of the really things that I loved about my experience with Air Medical was the support of our leadership.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I felt like uh back maybe when I was still a kid, you know, air air medical was quite dangerous. And you know, a big part of it was this mission pressure and this pilots being forced to fly when they shouldn't. Right. And man, at air evac, that was not the case. And Mark was like the guy that I mean, he stood on that, right? He there wasn't ever a situation. I had one situation where a program director uh called a base next to mine and asked that pilot if he would have taken the flight that I just declined. And Mark didn't go for that. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04That type of improved that kind of environment.
SPEAKER_02That type of behavior. And and you know, Mark would talk about it, but then to actually see him in action and go after that program director. I mean, talk about feeling empowered, right? I mean, as a pilot and feeling like, oh my gosh, you know, they they truly practice what they preach. So yeah, Mark Fisher, thank you for that. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Mark's a great guy, you know. I flew with him in Arizona at Wilcox, Arizona, and you know, it's kind of like uh right there off of I-10 coming into Arizona from New Mexico. A lot of huge open area, a lot of bad trauma we saw out there. And uh I really enjoyed flying with him. I learned a lot of principles from him. Uh and you know, back then too, there was a lot of siloing too. You know, there was a feeling that the medical crew were big duck, you know, were like self-loading baggage. Oh, big duck. And then, you know, the uh the pilots were essentially taxi drivers. And as you as you're aware now, you know, we're totally integrated and having a good SMS system and having this honesty and this and these crew briefs, and you're going over emergency procedures and you're having these discussions really increases the safety level of your operations.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you have to have it. I I feel very fortunate because you know, I came I came into Air Medical at the perfect time. You know, the changes had already been done. At that time, Area ArivaC had essentially updated all their aircraft to have the two-axis autopilot, the Garmin, you know, G500, both in the Long Ranger and the 407. And uh even at our NEO, the first, we did a full week of the uh the crew resource management. They called it something different. Amram. Amram, yep. And I I don't remember what it stands for, but that was you know, they really set the tone. You know, and then for me, I really I I believed it. I I believe that, man, if there's two people in the back, that's that's a four more set, you know, eyes that can be out there and help. And and I've talked I've talked about this on the podcast before, but we got called to Dilly. I'm sure you're familiar with Dilly. Yep.
SPEAKER_04And you land in uh cemetery there. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02And um man, someone threw a tower up. Uh it wasn't it wasn't charted, it wasn't uh on our Air Evac even had like a list of uncharted, you know, we plotted and uh we're coming in, it's a it's a pre-approved landing area that we've done before. And we're going in at night doing the same thing. Uh Russell Monroe in the back, paramedic goes, tower, you know, and right when he said it, I see it. Wow. And so I veer off to the right, missed it, land it. Would I would have hit it? I don't know. It would have been really close, you know. And so this idea of using your crew to enhance the safety of the flight, I mean, it just makes sense to me. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think it's uh just the old school mentality, right? Of you know, pilots know best or or whatnot. It's you know often not the case.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was to your point earlier about physicians, you know. You know, we don't fly with physicians for the most part in North America, you know, because we train up our nurses and paramedics to a certain level. Yeah. And actually training up our crew members to have this conversation and have this trust within each other and don't be calling out, you know, objects that are three miles out, you know. Yeah, of course. Uh you know what's re what's reality and based on our mission. Yeah. And, you know, we've we've seen, and you've probably heard about these and got some debriefs lately of some near misses that have happened uh in the last you know year with their medical programs. And uh it's very, very important for everybody to be talking, you know, as a pilot. We're trying to focus on decreasing the pilot workload and having those crew members to help with that while they're on the radio and you got your eyes out the window, especially in critical phases of flight.
SPEAKER_02Uh, you know, and that's what I loved about you know Air Evac and and the Bell product uh specifically that they were using again, they had upgraded the cockpits, you know, their legacy 407s, and and then you know, either like an L1 plus or L3 Plus, I guess, or just a flat L4. Uh, but all upgraded. And you know, being able to have that was my first experience with autopilot, my first experience in a glass cockpit. To have those tools available. I mean, I had like it's like I had a second pilot, right? Right. Uh to be able to, you know, put on the the heli sas, be able to see the the screens, be able to see the traffic right there, uh changing frequencies was so easy, everything was so ergonomic. I mean, that right there frees you up as a pilot so much to get your eyes outside. And I know the technology is only getting better, right? The right, you know, Bell continues to to have you know better avionic packages, and yeah, it's it's it's it's uh I think that that's a big lifesaver. But then integrating the crew on top of that, I mean it's just the the cherry on top, right?
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SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, actually having going from transitioning from an L3 or an L4 to an aircraft with a Fay deck that helps keep you from over-torking, right? So that keeps your aircraft up to the ground, up in the air. You know, you don't want to be AOG because you have some guys. I mean, I could tell you probably 10 times in my career when I was flying with in a 206 L3 how many overtorks we've had, either in training or in real missions. And then there you go. Yeah, you're done.
SPEAKER_02You don't want to you don't want to over-torque. I've sadly over-torked once, never talked about it publicly. I was I was in a I was in a jet ranger. This would be a good story, why not? And it was actually I had stopped, I decided that I was gonna focus solely on my sales business. It's called celicopter. And uh I was gonna put all my eggs in that basket. And it was on my last air medical flight, I was coming into San Antonio and we're talking on um, you know, not um just talking on common traffic frequency. And the news helicopter was flying. I'm like, oh maybe that could be a fun, part, very part-time job as I transitioned into full-time business for myself. So I'm chatting with a guy on the radio and he's like, Yeah, yeah, we actually need a part-time pilot right now, you know. Call me, here's my number. And so anyway, I got hired by Heli Inc. to to fly the jet ranger, and it was supposed to be like three or four days a month. Finished trading. Next day, the guy has a heart attack that's flying the main contract. He lived, luckily. Uh, but he lost his medical, so they're like, We need you flying full-time. And I was like, Oh no, you know, so I ended up going full time for about eight months. And on I think my third day, I'm flying the jet ranger, and they had kind of rigged the collective attention wrong. Uh I I had always actually been taught uh in a bell I could leave my hand on my thigh, you know, set it, hold my power. I'm doing a descent, the friction was set wrong, and it migrated up. Oh and all of a sudden I start to hear this you know, and I looked down and yeah, I overtorked it really well. And that was uh the only time I'd I I'd never done anything in a helicopter to hurt a helicopter, right? And I did it then, and that you know, whether it was you know my fault or not, I mean I felt like it was my fault, and it was and it was like a job that was like this part-time thing, but I was still so upset with myself, you know, like man, this is my I have one job. Yep, don't overtork the helicopter. Sure enough. I did it, but you know, it happens.
SPEAKER_04Like you learn, you know, and you probably maybe some processes changed after that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean you just I think it's easy, especially when you have a lot of time. Uh you you you find areas of complacency, right? Uh and it's just little things that you that you get away with over time, and then at one point it bites you, you know. Absolutely. And and to my fortune, all it did was, you know, overdork it, you know, didn't no one died. Helicopter was fine, you know, they had to spend some money and and do an inspection, and that sucks too. But you know, it is what it is. But enough about me. All right. Obviously, uh, if you haven't figured it out yet with our conversation, you have a background in medical, right? That's really that's that's your background. So I'm just kind of curious, how did you start your career of being medical in helicopters? Was that something that you were drawn to? Like that's why you got into emergency medicine?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or did it just kind of happen out of luck?
SPEAKER_04It was actually a little bit of both. You know, I'm gonna tell you, I've actually told this story before. Actually, I tell a lot of people this story because I'm essentially in the twilight of my career. Love it. So I can say, you know, I went to college and uh I uh wasn't ready for college. And so my freshman year of college, I spent a lot of time playing intermedial soccer and drinking a lot of beer. I was gonna say, there's any drinking? Yes, and so uh after the second semester at the University of North Texas, so actually at the time it was North Texas State University.
SPEAKER_02Is that the uh yeah, I went to uh I went to a football game there because uh I was doing training with uh Med Trance. Right on, yeah. Yeah, it's right up this right up the road there. Yeah, I went to uh a UNT game, it's fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so then I uh flunked out and so I went back uh home and I knew that I had capability, you know. I just knew I wasn't ready for school yet. And I you know, I felt kind of pressured because like all my classmates were applying for colleges and they were going to college, and I really didn't. Well, you're supposed to do it. Yeah, you're supposed to do that, right? I joined the mil the Air Force Reserves. I was like, I need something, I need some discipline, I need some some I need to get myself back into it. And so my dad was a was a retired army guy. Okay, and so I grew up kind of like in a strict environment of that stuff, you know, good rails on on my daily activities. And so uh joined the Air Force Reserves because I figured that if uh if it was terrible, I could I could make it one weekend a month for X amount of time. Yeah, of course. And if I really, really loved it, I could stay in or go active duty. And so when I went in there, my aptitude test was pretty good. I uh and so the guys said, you know, you can pick any job you want to pick. So uh one of the jobs that they were uh offering a bonus in was an air medical evacuation technician. And I was like, What's this? And he said, uh you're a medic and you fly in the back of a plane, you fly all over the world. Wow. And I was like, sold. Had never even thought about medical. Really? Yeah, and then once I took off and started doing my training, I took to it like a fish and water. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it's it's I I like that you say that, and I like that story because I it's kind of a common theme on this podcast, is about uh what I call flexibility, career flexibility, oh yeah, uh being open and understanding when there's an opportunity.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think that there's a lot of people. I I was this way, I was very centered of what I was going to do. Right? I was gonna be a pilot, I knew my path. I wasn't gonna derail from that path, but life had different plans, and and I did derail from my traditional path. But then that led me into helicopters by complete accident. And now I hear I sit here in a career of now 18 years coming up on of being around and in helicopters and uh having a life that I never imagined, right? And it's because I had flexibility and and when the opportunity presented itself, I took it. And a lot of young people listen to the podcast, and I think it's a it's a nice life lesson to, you know, hey, yeah, have goals, have some things that you want to do, but you know, be flexible, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you really have to. And and part of it is, I know it's kind of like an old trope about, you know, you skin a knee, get back up, you know, and dust yourself off, but you know, you gotta stuff stay driven, you know, even if your dream is to be an astronaut, you know, and you know, those are pretty high, yeah, high expectations. You can still be in aviation, you can still be uh, you know, uh uh an aeronautical engineer, you know, you could just so many things you can do if you can't really make it to that level, but you can still stay in that vein. And so it's just the learning principle, you know. And then I was in there and I I was a medic, and then I was working around all these nurses, and I was like, these guys they're getting saluted, they're officers, they're getting paid more. So then I went to nursing school and got. My degree and then um because of my experience in the mid in the military when I was flying at children's hospital there in San Antonio, they offered me a position on the transport team to fly, and that's how I started flying on uh fixed wing and rotor wing there. And then it just transitioned.
SPEAKER_02So it's the start in the Air Force, go that route. Great, great place to get training, by the way, obviously. Paid, you know, paid training, which is uh a good way to do it. Uh you become a nurse, and then your civilian sorry into helicopters is through Chosa, yeah. Essentially, yeah. Uh and you're on the specialty team. And that's a kind of an interesting our listeners may not understand that, but it's uh, you know, we have say traditional air medical that I flew, right? Where I I show up to a base, I have a paramedic, a nurse, and a pilot, and we go and we fly these air medical missions, and then other teams like the uh the pediatric and uh you're like a full-time hospital employee, right? But if there is uh a baby that needs help or a mom that's having a difficult pregnancy, they put you guys on the helicopter and you go. Yep. It's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it was pretty dynamic because we didn't own or operate any aircraft. We we we we actually were taken by rotor wing at first by uh the military. They actually had a base there at Bamsey at the time, it was uh old Huey, and we'd go fly and pick up patients in the Huey, which some of our female nurses hated. I loved it, you know. I mean, that's awesome. Come on. It was like flight of the Valkyries every day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_04And then we'd fly fixed wing too, and then uh you get a really good dynamic on it, you get a good mix of it on on uh on the different mission sets. And then um, my wife was active duty Air Force at the time. We met at the Air Force, and so she got transferred to uh Phoenix, uh to Luke Air Force Base. And so when I was moving out there, I got a job offer from the fixed wing vendor that I was flying with at the time, Critical Air. And they said, Hey, we have bases out there, you want a job in uh at the Navajo Reservation? So I went to the Navajo Reservation, I flew out of there for a while, dirt runway, really, really rough conditions, and then I um I was there like maybe six months, eight months, and then my manager um quit. And then so next thing I know, I was next up. So, real quick, I was put in a position of authority on this crew and this base and this mission. Being flexible, being flexible, but you know what, it's an opportunity, right? So there's an old saying opportunity uh favors the prepared mind. So you know, like that. You just gotta be ready for it. And uh, you know what? I ended up being the base manager, things went well. Then all of a sudden I was like, you know what? I want to do rotor. So then we had just University Call of California, San Diego had folded their, it was lifeline. They had folded their program, it was around 1994, 95, I think. And then they transitioned to Critical Air Rotor Wing there out of Montgomery Field in San Diego, and it was all 206s, yeah, and so they kept the same medical uh protocols, medical leadership, and a lot of the crew members flew. We started flying in Arizona, New Mexico, California, uh Washington State, and then eventually into Texas. And so uh got an opportunity to do that, opened up 11 bases in Texas, and then um got hired by San Antonio Airlife. And it was one of those deals where San Antonio Airlife was a legacy program, really you know, where you actually have to someone has to die you know for you to get a position there, and it was a very intimidating program to go to because there's a people the people there that have been there since the inception.
SPEAKER_02What was the aircraft that you were flying in? 412. Yeah, the 412. Yeah dual dual dual patient capability, right?
SPEAKER_04Actually, four patient capability in case of a mass casualty. We had these life port uh elevators on the side, so you can actually carry four patients. Uh, we never did the most we ever did was actually it was funny, uh not funny ha ha, but funny, interesting is that uh we flew uh during one of the hurricanes. Uh we went down to UTMB and we were helping uh evacuate their uh NICU, and we had the feeders and growers, so not the critical NICU guys, but the ones that were just get they're fattening up that they were getting better. We had nine souls on board when we called off that day, and everybody was because we had all those kids lined up on on these on the litters, yeah, and just to evacuate and bring them to children's hospital in San Antonio. Incredible. Yeah, so it was it was a good pro it was a good program, great mission. You know, you get really spoiled when you're in an aircraft. It is like a pickup truck, you know, the 412 as a as a beast, and uh we could fly anywhere, and it had a history, you know. The the San Antonio Airlife actually responded to the branch Dividian uh interesting, yeah, yeah. That predated me.
SPEAKER_02Good old uh David Koresh.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. And so they had the story to uh you know, for one uh for a while in Texas it was uh San Antonio Airlife, care flight in Dallas, Fort Worth, and then uh Herman in Houston. Those are the big three. Yep, and you know, good luck getting hired there.
SPEAKER_02You know, it was all locked down. Absolutely, yeah. Certainly. I think I think one of the nurses I flew with, Dawn, I feel like she was at Air Life for a long time. I don't know if that name, I forget her last name, she was just an F, but uh yeah, very storied program. And in fact, I was going through I don't know, I was flipping through TV channels kind of recently, and something came up and it was like San Antonio Air Life, and it was like it was Life in the ER.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they were on an episode of that. Did you remember that TV show was like a documentary?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just I was watching it and it was like old school. I'm like, oh god, that's where I saw the dual, you know, the dual cots or whatever. And I'm like, oh my god, like it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00And that this is for those that are ready to launch their helicopter career training, Hillsborough Heli Academy, the place where pilots from around the world begin their journey with a real-world experience and a reputation that speaks for itself. Visit flyha.com because it's different here.
SPEAKER_04That was pretty cool. They actually did a whole bunch of uh really cool programs, storied programs which are no longer around, like uh uh Samaritan Airvac out of Phoenix. They used to fly BKs, and you know, essentially what happens with the any industry is essentially there's going to be consolidation, right? Yeah, of course. So there's a big consolidation happens. So a lot of those programs are gone, they're rolled up into either air methods programs or a GMR program.
SPEAKER_02And they get absorbed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they get absorbed, and actually you have inefficiencies that occur, right? And then you get lean, and I I think you get better, you know. But then, you know, there was a period of private equity comes in, and so that's a controversial subject you can talk about on another on another day, not today. But you know what? And then um but you know, you hope that the in that the that the product itself does not suffer. You have good sound clinical uh training and crew members and also good SMS programs with an open dialogue where someone can say, guess what, we're not gonna take this mission, you know?
SPEAKER_02Well, this is you know, I I find it interesting. You you know, you join the military, you become a uh a medic, uh then a nurse, then you're flying civilian air medical, and now you're at Bell. Yep. Uh when did that transition occur? What exactly what is your official title? Yeah. And uh I you mentioned kind of consulting for air medical, but let's just dive a little bit deeper into your day-to-day.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um, so I was flying um air medical, and actually I was flying for airlife. Airlife got bought out by Air Methods. Uh soon after that, I got a position, I got an offer to fly fixed swing with uh AirMed in actually was called uh Air Medical Limited in San Antonio, flying fixed swing. So I went over there to help them with BD and kind of grow their business. Next thing you know, they were bought out by AirMed International, which is part of GMR, and now I'm out of Birmingham, and uh you know, I'm like double billeted. We there's a couple of guys, we're all kind of doing the same job, and uh, I've known Denise, the CEO there for a while, and uh, you know, I felt like I don't need to be here. These guys are doing a great job, and I figured like they're just throwing money away by having me there too. So I got a job back at the hospital, the trauma center where I came from, uh, that uh was uh one of the partners of uh San Antonio Airlife. So I went there and I started where is that? It's since it's a University Hospital San Antonio University, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So landed there many times. Absolutely three pads, three pads, right?
SPEAKER_04Three pads now, yeah. And so we uh I was there doing strategy and business development, and uh a lot of my job there was doing uh taking physicians out into the community and doing educational events for other physicians to help increase our referral patterns. It was a great job. I really loved it, had a really good boss there. Bell Helicopter calls me out of the blue, and uh it was one of my old RSMs that uh regional sales managers from Bell that we had bought after we got out of the 412s. We bought the Bell 430s and we were supposed to transition to the Bell 429s. And um they said, Hey, you know, we just lost our uh our EMS segment manager, hem segment manager. She retired, and we're looking for somebody. And I was like, Hey, I can get I got three or four good names for you. And uh he it was Pat Foley, this guy's name is Pat Foley, great guy. He uh says, I was thinking about you, you know, because you do kind of like I was thinking of a younger guy, but or younger person, that guy. It was like you know, you need to be the old grizzled kind of experienced guy to be in this position. And so um I took the job, I didn't take the job, I applied for the job, and it was a probably an eight-month hiring process. Oh my gosh. Yeah, there was a as you can imagine, there was a quite a few people that were interviewing for this position. And so went through a couple interviews and background checks and all that good stuff. So luckily I was job offered, and so as the hem segment manager, what I do is um I'm a branding bastard for for Bell. I you know, I represent Bell at events and uh I'll I'll give presentations. I I'm participating in some of the hem's education day-to-day. Uh I'll be on a panel later on to talk about uh EMS different roles in in uh in hem's operations. And then, but for Bell, what I do the most is uh I consult with aeromedical organizations in North America and in Europe, where these guys have been doing it for a long time, not so much. You know what I mean? There's not much I can tell them when they've been doing it for a while. But in emerging markets, I do a lot. I do a lot of stuff like in China, India. I was just in Taiwan. They don't have hem there, they're still trying to get that going. I do data analysis uh with my team. I'm part of a team that has engineers that do mission profiles based on your geography, average temperatures, edge, you know, distance of your missions, and we offer them solutions based on our aircraft, you know, and then uh I'll go ahead and present that, you know, and um it's just it's kind of like the same thing I was doing when I was working for critical air and where we're opening up bases in rural communities. I had to go down to you know the uh city council or the uh county uh commissioners and present and say, we want to come into the county and present and have this service, and this is why you need it because you have to you can't just show up, put your placard up, you gotta get permission. Yeah, you gotta yeah, and so you know, just education and stuff like that. And I really, really enjoy it. It it does uh put me uh I remember when I took the job, I told my wife, hey, just let you know, they told me it's 50% travel. And then she was sort of laughing. She was like, Okay, 50% travel. So she knew and I knew. So I'm on the road probably about 65-75% of the year, you know. But uh you saw my colleague run by here a little while ago, Terry. Terry's my law enforcement parapet. Yeah, I met him before, and I think he does a lot more traveling than me uh because he happens to have fire in law enforcement. Okay, so and as you know, every year uh globally we got five percent increase of fire. Yeah, uh year over year. So there's a lot of opportunity out there. So uh, but Ham's market is doing good, you know. We're doing good in uh staying solid in North America as doing very well. You know, we we've sold a number of aircraft to some big organizations such as GMR and Air Methods, you know, where they're buying the 429.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I saw that recently in the press release. Very cool.
SPEAKER_04And also the 407 is really a really steady sales platform and uh performance. You know, that the 407 is a beast, you know, it really can do a lot of stuff. And uh, you know, unfortunately, you know, we're we're we're here in Europe and they don't allow single engine operations for hems here, and that's that's that's too bad. And uh, you know, we're trying to to uh ensure that there's an opportunity for uh operators globally to have that option because when you're starting up a HEMS program, you know, you're not really sure about your revenue stream. Yeah, and you can't have a it's hard to chew off nine mil, you know. Absolutely, you know, and it's harder, it's harder to do that. So if you can start off with a 505 or a 407, yeah, that makes it a lot more palatable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's interesting too because you know, if you look at really the data, uh there isn't much data that supports that two is necessarily better than one when it comes to engines. Absolutely. Uh which is which I find um not super surprising, actually, just because I've been in the industry long enough to know the reliability of a turbine engine, right? And so I think you know, and I think it's not just like the Europeans only wanting twins for that mission. It's it's all around like we train for engine failures constantly, but they never really happen all that often, right? But then we don't train for inadvertent IMC enough. Absolutely. You know, the things that are actually killing people. Uh and so, you know, I find it, you know, I find that it's an interesting mindset that I don't think is really based on fact. So how how do you how do you educate on that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. I did give a presentation on that. Like uh uh some of the engineers on my team did a data uh dig on the failure rate of um the 407 engine on a million hours of flight time, and it was very, very low. Yeah, it's almost insignificant, but it does happen. Sure. And so as you just kind of hinted at just a minute ago, at the very beginning of aviation, when we were at infancy, everything was essentially maintenance and mechanical, right? We that's that was called killing us, yeah. Killing us now. We're we're super, super safe. We have great engineering, we have amazing products, and now everything is human factors. Yeah, and so that's the part I was trying, like I was talking to the Civilian Air Authority in China, and they were trying to mandate twin engine for HEMS. And I presented that the most important part is having a robust safety management system, training protocols for your pilots and your crew members, maintenance uh standards, etc. This is what makes it safe. That's the safe, and so it was the data. You know, you really have to to to prove the data, and so you know, there's so many things different, you know, like closed tail rotor versus open tail rotor. You know, you have data to support one way or the other, and you know, at the end of the day, it's just up to the uh the customer. You know, they make the call and they make the decision, and uh, you know, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean it's very that's um it's an interesting it's an interesting time, I feel like, because I feel like there's more push for single engine ops specific to say Europe.
SPEAKER_04I think Canada is even you know twin engine really kind of twin engine twin pilot, no they hardly ever fly at night. Yeah, they're super, super safe, they're very, very uh conservative with their flying, and there's nothing wrong with it, you know. Uh if they feel that their numbers are they're hitting the numbers they need uh in a sense of serving their population. Yeah, you know, that's all that matters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, it's interesting. Uh is is that kind of the biggest challenge for you here in Europe?
SPEAKER_04Um, you know, we do have some entry barriers here in Europe. Uh we have some challenges based on, you know, there's such a huge infrastructure here for Airbus and Leonardo, as you can imagine. They're the home teams. Yeah, this is home, home, home field advantage. Absolutely. And so it's gonna, it's really tough for people to come in and say, guess what? I want to go ahead and buy this new aircraft, even though the performance is right where I need it, or it's comparable or better than what I currently have, because I'm thinking about this entire infrastructure that I'm gonna have to build now, right? With tools, training, I gotta have MROs, I gotta have everything set up here to maintain that I'm in good operations. And uh, you know, it's it is tough. You know, I think if we had had an opportunity to have a discussion with some of the governments, you know, some things may be able to evolve a little bit more as a as a US OEM. You know, we are a private company, we're privately funded through our uh sales of aircraft through Textron, which is our parent company here in the in in um Europe, what they do is uh which I totally understand and I get is they they want to protect what they have here. And so there's a European first mentality. Yeah. And so buy European, buy an Airbus, buy a Leonardo. And so uh there's nothing wrong with that when the government has skin in the game, yeah. Of course. Uh and they want to protect their infrastructures and their training programs and all their personnel. And uh so that's our challenge. What what we really need is that one operator to really take a chance on us and kind of rock the boat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that yeah.
SPEAKER_04Are we close? Yeah, well, you know what? Every day it's closer than yesterday. So, you know, uh we're we're in discussions with some some programs, and uh, you know, we'll hope hopefully we can uh meet the requirements that they need to be successful. I mean, it seems like the 429 specifically could be a great platform for Europe, it is, you know, but then you know, some areas they have tenders for they have to have a shrouded or finest on tail rotor because of an accident that happened 15 years ago. Sure. And I totally get it. I'm not besmirching that because someone lost their life in a tail rotor strike.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04In inherently though, HEMS is a very, very safe program. And what we do is we even when I was on a 206 program, we had a policy that no one went after the end of the skid unless you were at one of us crew members. One of us unless you want to get tackled. Exactly. No one did that, and so just being safe, and you know, we used to land in really crummy, uh, I'm sure like I don't know if you ever landed in Smithville hospital where the helipad's like in the middle of the of the parking lot. Yeah, and it's the worst. You got cars essentially all around you, and then you not only are you worried about you know, foreign object blowing and cracking windows, but just pedestrians because everybody gets curious when helicopters come in.
SPEAKER_02It's like a magnet.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Oh, what's that?
SPEAKER_04Exactly. So we've been very fortunate as an industry in North America with not having fatal tail rotor strikes and hems um because of training. Yeah. And uh, you know, a lot of the programs make it an annual requirement to do their um landing zone training, yep. Training the fire fire departments, law enforcement, et cetera, on how to land us.
SPEAKER_03Thank you to our sponsor, Precision Aviation Group. Mission critical operators and fleet managers rely on Precision Aviation Group as a worldwide leading rotor and fixed-wing MRO provider. PAG provides tip-to-tail solutions in four MRO segments: avionics, components, engines, and manufacturing DER services. A single point of contact gives you access to over 150 million in inventory globally 24-7. Just call 800-537-2778. Precision Aviation Group. Others sell parts. We sell support.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're we were constantly doing the PRs, you know, going out there. Good times. Educating uh the local, you know, uh volunteer fire department, EMS, the community. No, I mean, I feel like we were doing that weekly, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and then now, you know, you're having to do that as well because of like lasers, you know, people are shooting lasers at uh rotor wing, and it's incredibly uh uh reckless, you know, behavior because they don't understand how it when it hits that that windscreen, how it just disappears.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I got lasered in Hondo. Oh, geez. And uh we we just we hung out when we OCC ended up getting the when we could see exactly where the laser was coming from. Perfect. Yeah, they got the guy, it was kind of fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they had a black. I remember there was a black hawk transitioning in San Antonio, and I remember they were going back to Martindale and they actually got lasered and they went down and did the same thing. They just hovered and held until TD just PD showed.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, we ain't going nowhere, guys. And you know, my my crew supported it. Yeah, nice try. We thought it was pretty fun, actually.
SPEAKER_04You know, it takes a little bit of that, you know. You're seeing that all across the country, and that's unfortunate. Um, and it's it's it's interesting to me because it's like we're the good guys, right? We're helping the community.
SPEAKER_02Well, it turns out in our case it was a kid. Uh kid was like 13 or something, you know. So, you know, kids will be kids, I suppose, but yeah, it's extremely dangerous.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and then we're gonna see more with that with kids and also with uh hobbyists, you know, with drones. So we're dealing with that as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and uh, you know, I think it would happen in uh LA fires this year. LA Fire and also they're in Kerrville.
SPEAKER_04Oh in Kerrville, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they got a drone hit uh uh hit an aircraft. Golly. So there's a resource that's down on the ground until maintenance guy gets out there and checks it out, makes sure it's cool, and then you're you're back in the air. It's very unfortunate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So Europe, you're here. We have uh the the 429 actually on display with Air Zermont. Yes. Pretty exciting. What is kind of your objectives at a show like this?
SPEAKER_04My show, my my objectives are actually to show the aircraft and talk about the aircraft and talk about Bell, what we do in our infrastructure and how we're how we're positioned. You know, around Europe, we do have a lot of resources here. We have a lot of partners that are selling aircraft for us. We have um maintenance facilities and support facilities for if you own a Bell aircraft, you can get the parts you need, you can get the maintenance you need if you're not large enough to do that on your own. And so just showing them what our network is and how our infrastructure is built here is a big uh educational part because most people don't understand that. That because because Bell's new to them, you know, it's foreign to them, even though they know the name because that's one of the things I think. I feel like Bell is almost like Coca-Cola. I was gonna tell you that earlier, you know, about like how half the people that are in aviation, especially my generation and older, you know, they were in the army, they flew OH 58s, you know, they know those airplanes.
SPEAKER_02Non-helicopter people, they know what a bell is, right? Yeah, it's a well, it's either a bike helmet or a helicopter, I suppose.
SPEAKER_04Or if you're in uh Montreal, the phone the phone company.
SPEAKER_02Is it is that also?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's so cool. This is a funny story. This gal right here, she just waved me. This is uh my best friend's sister. The guy was in my wedding. Right on. Uh grew up in Oregon, just outside of Portland, and sh who do I run into, of course, is a small world, man. It's my friend's sister. That's so Yeah, it's crazy. Uh super small world. But yeah, I mean it's uh it it seems like it's uh Europe is uh it's education. It sounds like that you are here educated. So like uh in a year's time, how much time are you spending in Europe advocating and educating for Bell?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, I I what I do is I come in and I talk to potential customers and uh I r rely on the our sales team to build these uh relationships up. And when um operators are considering a Bell aircraft, I'll come in and give a presentation on the capabilities of it. We'll do the work up, like I said before, with some of my folks on my engineering team or on my team that are engineers, excuse me, and uh we'll do mission profiles and then we'll present that to them. And then we'll look at all variables and see what if this is what makes it. And are they being truthful with us? You know what I mean? Is this really your range? Because even in North America, I I try to get this across too. You want to get by the aircraft that you can do 85 to 90 percent of your mission. Sure. You can't do because I'm gonna yeah, I'll tell you, like, you know, when I was at AirLife, we flew the last patient out of Tulane in New Orleans because of uh the resources that weren't available was a patient on a on a VAD of ventricular assist device that needed the room and everything else at the 412 couldn't ride. And so you don't plan for that. Yeah, you're not flying to New Orleans. You're not flying to New Orleans all the time. Exactly. So don't worry about that. Don't buy the aircraft that's gonna get you to that, yeah, to Omaha. Sure. You know, and uh, and so you know that's what you have to really get people to focus on that because this is gonna be your bread and butter, and this is what you're gonna use it for most of the time. Yeah, that 16-minute mission, not the 45-minute mission.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course. Yeah, very interesting. Steve, it's uh really cool to learn about this position. Obviously, air medical is important for Bell. Yes. Uh and I admittedly, I I didn't actually realize that uh someone like you existed. You know, uh, I think that's pretty cool. Uh and I think it's what I like about it is I mean, you you walk the walk and you talk the talk. I mean, you've been in helicopters for a very long time, you've worked in the back. You know, you understand it, right? You get it. Right. So you can really go and have those conversations. I'm guessing it's a very vital asset.
SPEAKER_04It really is when you actually have an operator and operator, even if you're a pilot, if we've still done the same mission, but you still have the same conversation.
SPEAKER_02You and I can chop it up. Absolutely. It's uh it's uh that's awesome. Well, Steve, thank you so much for coming on the podcast uh to our listeners. Guys, thanks so much for listening. It allows me to have super cool conversations with guys like Steve. Uh European Rotors has been a great success. The Bell Booth. Uh, best coffee so far I've had. Oh, yeah. Sounds from the from the Bell Booth. I also stole water, so I appreciate that. Uh, like I said though, big fan of Bell helicopters. Uh, we hope to sell lots of uh used, continue to sell used Bell helicopters. We really enjoy that.
SPEAKER_04Well, thanks, Alzheimer. I appreciate the uh the conversation and the invite today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's been awesome. Uh again, guys, thanks for listening to another European Rotors edition of the Helicopter Podcast. See you soon. All right. Please stay tuned for a final word from our sponsors.
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SPEAKER_03Thank you to our sponsor, Precision Aviation Group. Mission critical operators and fleet managers rely on Precision Aviation Group as a worldwide leading rotor and fixed-wing MRO provider. PAG provides tip-to-tail solutions in four MRO segments avionics, components, engines, and manufacturing DER services. A single point of contact gives you access to over 150 million in inventory globally 24 7. Just call 800 537 2778. Others sell parts. We sell support.