{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":12.21,"endTime":14.1,"body":"I would like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":12.21,"endTime":14.1,"body":"begin this episode by"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":14.1,"endTime":17.88,"body":"acknowledging that I am located"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":14.1,"endTime":17.88,"body":"in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":17.88,"endTime":21.15,"body":"I am privileged and honored to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":17.88,"endTime":21.15,"body":"live and learn on the unceded"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":21.18,"endTime":24.63,"body":"unsurrendered territory of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":21.18,"endTime":24.63,"body":"Anishnaabeg  Algonquin nation."},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":26.01,"endTime":29.01,"body":"Hello, you're"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":26.01,"endTime":29.01,"body":"listening to Trench Leadership:"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":29.22,"endTime":34.32,"body":"A Podcast From the Front,"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":29.22,"endTime":34.32,"body":"produced byiglen studios, a show"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":34.32,"endTime":38.55,"body":"for emerging leaders from all"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":34.32,"endTime":38.55,"body":"professions, to hear from other"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":38.55,"endTime":42.03,"body":"leaders who have led from the"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":38.55,"endTime":42.03,"body":"front, made the mistakes, had"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":42.03,"endTime":46.47,"body":"the triumphs, and are still"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":42.03,"endTime":46.47,"body":"learning along the way. And now,"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":46.59,"endTime":49.05,"body":"here's your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":46.59,"endTime":49.05,"body":"Kardynal."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":50.95,"endTime":52.69,"body":"Have you ever"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":50.95,"endTime":52.69,"body":"worked at a company that was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":52.69,"endTime":55.33,"body":"hitting its goals and making"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":52.69,"endTime":55.33,"body":"money, but at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":55.33,"endTime":58.93,"body":"day, everyone was miserable and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":55.33,"endTime":58.93,"body":"secretly dreaming about becoming"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":58.93,"endTime":63.1,"body":"a yoga teacher?  The reality is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":58.93,"endTime":63.1,"body":"that when companies only reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":63.1,"endTime":66.64,"body":"financial performance, their"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":63.1,"endTime":66.64,"body":"cultures can and likely will"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":66.64,"endTime":69.58,"body":"devolve into nonstop"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":66.64,"endTime":69.58,"body":"defensiveness and cynicism,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":69.91,"endTime":73.21,"body":"something called Toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":69.91,"endTime":73.21,"body":"Excellence.  In this episode,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":73.21,"endTime":77.2,"body":"we'll hear from Dr. Kim Perkins,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":73.21,"endTime":77.2,"body":"a PhD in Positive Organizational"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":77.2,"endTime":80.26,"body":"Psychology and the author of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":77.2,"endTime":80.26,"body":"Winner Take None, where we will"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":80.26,"endTime":84.1,"body":"discuss the concept of toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":80.26,"endTime":84.1,"body":"excellence, what it is, how we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":84.1,"endTime":87.1,"body":"can recognize it, and most"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":84.1,"endTime":87.1,"body":"importantly, how emerging"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":87.1,"endTime":90.07,"body":"leaders can face it head on and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":87.1,"endTime":90.07,"body":"use our judgmental and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":90.07,"endTime":92.5,"body":"competitive energy in positive"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":90.07,"endTime":92.5,"body":"ways."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":98.87,"endTime":102.02,"body":"Hi, everyone, and welcome back"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":98.87,"endTime":102.02,"body":"to the show. It's great to see"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":102.02,"endTime":105.47,"body":"everyone around. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":102.02,"endTime":105.47,"body":"today we have a really great"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":105.47,"endTime":108.08,"body":"topic, we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":105.47,"endTime":108.08,"body":"discussing toxic excellence. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":108.08,"endTime":111.5,"body":"we're going to be doing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":108.08,"endTime":111.5,"body":"with Dr. Kim Perkins, a PhD in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":111.5,"endTime":114.68,"body":"positive organizational"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":111.5,"endTime":114.68,"body":"psychology, and she's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":114.68,"endTime":118.31,"body":"discuss with us how that impacts"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":114.68,"endTime":118.31,"body":"the workplace and how all those"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":118.31,"endTime":120.98,"body":"things move forward and whatnot,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":118.31,"endTime":120.98,"body":"and we're just going to chat"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":120.98,"endTime":122.87,"body":"about that a little bit. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":120.98,"endTime":122.87,"body":"Kim, how's it going today?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":123.59,"endTime":125.24,"body":"Hey, how's it"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":123.59,"endTime":125.24,"body":"going, Simon?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":125.57,"endTime":127.04,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":125.57,"endTime":127.04,"body":"Excellent. Thanks. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":127.04,"endTime":130.34,"body":"taking the time for this. I'm in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":127.04,"endTime":130.34,"body":"Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, I'm in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":130.34,"endTime":132.65,"body":"the East Coast, and you're away"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":130.34,"endTime":132.65,"body":"out in the West Coast. So the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":132.65,"endTime":135.26,"body":"time differences are pretty"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":132.65,"endTime":135.26,"body":"significant. So I really do"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":135.26,"endTime":138.14,"body":"appreciate you taking that time."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":135.26,"endTime":138.14,"body":"Before we get at it. Did you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":138.14,"endTime":140.57,"body":"want to take a moment and tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":138.14,"endTime":140.57,"body":"us a little bit about yourself"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":140.57,"endTime":142.19,"body":"and how you ended up at this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":140.57,"endTime":142.19,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":142.96,"endTime":147.82,"body":"Sure. So psychology"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":142.96,"endTime":147.82,"body":"is actually my third career. So"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":147.82,"endTime":151.48,"body":"first, I was a writer, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":147.82,"endTime":151.48,"body":"editor and journalist. And then"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":151.48,"endTime":156.43,"body":"I discovered that I had a weird"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":151.48,"endTime":156.43,"body":"talent for speedskating and took"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":156.43,"endTime":161.47,"body":"few years off to pursue that as"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":156.43,"endTime":161.47,"body":"a professional competitor. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":161.47,"endTime":165.1,"body":"then at the end of that my"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":161.47,"endTime":165.1,"body":"athletic career as all athletic"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":165.1,"endTime":168.76,"body":"careers must end, I decided I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":165.1,"endTime":168.76,"body":"was more interested in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":168.76,"endTime":171.94,"body":"motivation and performance and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":168.76,"endTime":171.94,"body":"psychology and so I ended up"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":171.94,"endTime":176.8,"body":"going to graduate school for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":171.94,"endTime":176.8,"body":"organizational psychology and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":177.04,"endTime":179.65,"body":"here I am working with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":177.04,"endTime":179.65,"body":"organizations and teams and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":179.65,"endTime":183.31,"body":"individuals on their motivation"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":179.65,"endTime":183.31,"body":"and leadership and performance."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":183.58,"endTime":185.83,"body":"You are an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":183.58,"endTime":185.83,"body":"author, you've written a book"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":185.83,"endTime":189.22,"body":"called Winner Take None. And the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":185.83,"endTime":189.22,"body":"book you talk about toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":189.22,"endTime":190.93,"body":"excellence, so, do we want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":189.22,"endTime":190.93,"body":"chat about that a bit?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":190.99,"endTime":193.0,"body":"Yeah, let me tell"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":190.99,"endTime":193.0,"body":"you a little bit about the book,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":193.0,"endTime":195.34,"body":"the book is called, \"Winner Take"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":193.0,"endTime":195.34,"body":"None: Rethinking"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":195.34,"endTime":199.21,"body":"Competitiveness, for the New"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":195.34,"endTime":199.21,"body":"Economy.\" and it's based on my"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":199.21,"endTime":203.8,"body":"experiences, both as persons and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":199.21,"endTime":203.8,"body":"non-athlete because I was kind"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":203.8,"endTime":207.34,"body":"of a geeky kid kid who couldn't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":203.8,"endTime":207.34,"body":"climb the rope, and then as an"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":207.34,"endTime":211.42,"body":"athlete, where I became a very"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":207.34,"endTime":211.42,"body":"rabid avid competitor that lived"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":211.42,"endTime":215.02,"body":"through this, and then going"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":211.42,"endTime":215.02,"body":"into work organizations taught,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":215.02,"endTime":217.81,"body":"you know, I studied this as part"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":215.02,"endTime":217.81,"body":"of my PhD, I studied"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":217.81,"endTime":221.2,"body":"interpersonal competition and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":217.81,"endTime":221.2,"body":"what people love about it, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":221.2,"endTime":224.92,"body":"going into organizational work,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":221.2,"endTime":224.92,"body":"the places where it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":224.95,"endTime":232.96,"body":"really work for us to have this"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":224.95,"endTime":232.96,"body":"game metaphor that guiding our"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":232.96,"endTime":235.87,"body":"business endeavors and our"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":232.96,"endTime":235.87,"body":"leadership endeavors and so I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":235.9,"endTime":238.24,"body":"consider all of that and I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":235.9,"endTime":238.24,"body":"talked to a lot of really"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":238.24,"endTime":241.6,"body":"interesting people and I have an"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":238.24,"endTime":241.6,"body":"interesting case studies in this"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":241.6,"endTime":245.2,"body":"book called, Winner Take None."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":241.6,"endTime":245.2,"body":"That will be out in August."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":246.2,"endTime":247.94,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":246.2,"endTime":247.94,"body":"fantastic. Congratulations. Is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":247.94,"endTime":248.78,"body":"this your first book?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":249.26,"endTime":251.15,"body":"This is my first"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":249.26,"endTime":251.15,"body":"book, I've been wanting to write"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":251.15,"endTime":253.73,"body":"this book for about 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":251.15,"endTime":253.73,"body":"and then the pandemic happened,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":253.73,"endTime":256.16,"body":"and I got the chance to really"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":253.73,"endTime":256.16,"body":"just sit down and do it."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":256.48,"endTime":259.42,"body":"Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":256.48,"endTime":259.42,"body":"fantastic. Congratulations. I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":259.42,"endTime":262.09,"body":"thinking about when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":259.42,"endTime":262.09,"body":"discussing emerging leaders, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":262.09,"endTime":267.04,"body":"know, I would imagine that quite"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":262.09,"endTime":267.04,"body":"often, the new leaders, they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":267.04,"endTime":270.16,"body":"feeling that competition amongst"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":267.04,"endTime":270.16,"body":"inside themselves, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":270.19,"endTime":273.25,"body":"around their peers inside the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":270.19,"endTime":273.25,"body":"team, the pressure to succeed,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":273.25,"endTime":276.58,"body":"the pressure to do all of this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":273.25,"endTime":276.58,"body":"and that stress has to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":276.58,"endTime":279.37,"body":"difficult, and in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":276.58,"endTime":279.37,"body":"times, I would gather, probably"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":279.37,"endTime":282.01,"body":"don't even realize they're doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":279.37,"endTime":282.01,"body":"it to themselves.  Is it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":282.01,"endTime":283.03,"body":"something you might agree with?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":283.6,"endTime":287.38,"body":"Oh, I would definitely agree"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":283.6,"endTime":287.38,"body":"with that. So a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":287.38,"endTime":290.35,"body":"when we bring a competitive"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":287.38,"endTime":290.35,"body":"frame with us, it's something"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":290.35,"endTime":295.99,"body":"that we we use to kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":290.35,"endTime":295.99,"body":"simplify what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":296.38,"endTime":300.55,"body":"achieve. So we don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":296.38,"endTime":300.55,"body":"have to be the best ever the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":300.55,"endTime":303.07,"body":"world has ever seen. But as long"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":300.55,"endTime":303.07,"body":"as we're kind of doing better"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":303.07,"endTime":305.62,"body":"than some of the people around"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":303.07,"endTime":305.62,"body":"us, well, we can feel good about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":305.62,"endTime":308.89,"body":"what we're doing. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":305.62,"endTime":308.89,"body":"really helpful for us reducing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":308.89,"endTime":314.02,"body":"our own anxiety in a complicated"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":308.89,"endTime":314.02,"body":"situation. But the problem with"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":314.02,"endTime":318.64,"body":"that, though, is that it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":314.02,"endTime":318.64,"body":"doesn't, if we're not doing so,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":318.64,"endTime":320.98,"body":"well, if we're learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":318.64,"endTime":320.98,"body":"something and we're floundering"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":321.01,"endTime":323.8,"body":"a little bit, then we can be end"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":321.01,"endTime":323.8,"body":"up being really unnecessarily"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":323.8,"endTime":327.52,"body":"hard on ourselves, and judging"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":323.8,"endTime":327.52,"body":"ourselves according to our where"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":327.52,"endTime":333.61,"body":"we stand with others on some"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":327.52,"endTime":333.61,"body":"made up scale of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":333.61,"endTime":336.7,"body":"scale of our own making, as"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":333.61,"endTime":336.7,"body":"opposed to something that really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":336.7,"endTime":339.7,"body":"matters to other people. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":336.7,"endTime":339.7,"body":"I've heard from many people who"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":339.7,"endTime":344.86,"body":"were very clearly successful in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":339.7,"endTime":344.86,"body":"business, saying that it was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":344.86,"endTime":348.55,"body":"their own head that was really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":344.86,"endTime":348.55,"body":"messing them up, because they"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":348.55,"endTime":351.04,"body":"were making it very complicated"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":348.55,"endTime":351.04,"body":"for themselves trying to be the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":351.04,"endTime":353.47,"body":"best all the time. And at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":351.04,"endTime":353.47,"body":"same time, that's something that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":353.47,"endTime":357.22,"body":"people really do in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":353.47,"endTime":357.22,"body":"beginning of their careers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":357.22,"endTime":360.85,"body":"because it's that that's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":357.22,"endTime":360.85,"body":"quest time when we're thinking,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":361.09,"endTime":364.57,"body":"as we're merging as leaders, can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":361.09,"endTime":364.57,"body":"we do it? Can we do it well"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":364.57,"endTime":367.45,"body":"enough? can we do it well enough"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":364.57,"endTime":367.45,"body":"that people will want to hire us"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":367.45,"endTime":368.14,"body":"to do this?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":368.2,"endTime":371.86,"body":"I'm almost done a master's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":368.2,"endTime":371.86,"body":"degree at this point and it's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":371.86,"endTime":374.89,"body":"master's degree in leadership."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":371.86,"endTime":374.89,"body":"And one of the themes that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":374.89,"endTime":377.95,"body":"kept hearing a lot amongst"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":374.89,"endTime":377.95,"body":"ourselves inside my cohort was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":377.95,"endTime":380.23,"body":"the story that we tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":377.95,"endTime":380.23,"body":"ourselves, We're not good enough"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":380.23,"endTime":382.36,"body":"for this, We're not ready for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":380.23,"endTime":382.36,"body":"this, we're, you know, whatnot,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":382.36,"endTime":385.78,"body":"and we just build it up or, and,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":382.36,"endTime":385.78,"body":"and if in the event that a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":385.78,"endTime":389.29,"body":"mistake was made, we have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":385.78,"endTime":389.29,"body":"tendency to turn that tiny"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":389.29,"endTime":392.62,"body":"little mistake into this massive"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":389.29,"endTime":392.62,"body":"balloon of shame and just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":392.62,"endTime":394.21,"body":"disgust over in ourselves."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":394.57,"endTime":395.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":395.2,"endTime":397.45,"body":"There's nothing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":395.2,"endTime":397.45,"body":"there. It was a mistake. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":397.45,"endTime":400.06,"body":"people recognize that. Do you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":397.45,"endTime":400.06,"body":"have any thoughts on that at"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":400.06,"endTime":400.27,"body":"all?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.78,"endTime":404.41,"body":"Oh, absolutely. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.78,"endTime":404.41,"body":"know, I see competitiveness as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.41,"endTime":409.51,"body":"being another way of doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.41,"endTime":409.51,"body":"perfectionism. So that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":409.51,"endTime":414.1,"body":"know, in competitiveness, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":409.51,"endTime":414.1,"body":"are seeing small vulnerabilities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":414.1,"endTime":416.47,"body":"as problematic, because they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":414.1,"endTime":416.47,"body":"might be things that completely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.47,"endTime":419.38,"body":"go over other people's heads, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.47,"endTime":419.38,"body":"that people don't have any will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":419.38,"endTime":421.99,"body":"to exploit, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":419.38,"endTime":421.99,"body":"you're when you're doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.99,"endTime":425.5,"body":"athletics at a high level, any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.99,"endTime":425.5,"body":"mistake you make is going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.5,"endTime":428.14,"body":"noticeable and exploitable by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.5,"endTime":428.14,"body":"other people. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.14,"endTime":431.8,"body":"really the same in leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.14,"endTime":431.8,"body":"and in business, because that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.1,"endTime":435.94,"body":"you know, that's 24-7, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.1,"endTime":435.94,"body":"we're doing sports, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.94,"endTime":440.83,"body":"very temporary performance on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.94,"endTime":440.83,"body":"very limited field. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.1,"endTime":446.08,"body":"and the effort that it would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.1,"endTime":446.08,"body":"take to be perfect for 24-7 is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.14,"endTime":452.59,"body":"absolutely not worth the output"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.14,"endTime":452.59,"body":"of energy and, and attention. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":452.59,"endTime":456.52,"body":"when you know, and I've seen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":452.59,"endTime":456.52,"body":"this a lot with with new leaders"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.52,"endTime":461.59,"body":"who say don't return the email"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.52,"endTime":461.59,"body":"as fast as they would like to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":461.59,"endTime":463.93,"body":"have returned the email and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":461.59,"endTime":463.93,"body":"start off with like a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.93,"endTime":466.78,"body":"stories I didn't, I thought I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.93,"endTime":466.78,"body":"didn't get back to you, and take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":466.78,"endTime":470.59,"body":"it really on themselves thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":466.78,"endTime":470.59,"body":"that they are fending off any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.59,"endTime":473.74,"body":"you know, this is a defensive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.59,"endTime":473.74,"body":"position, if I take admit, if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.74,"endTime":477.91,"body":"say sorry, first, that you can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.74,"endTime":477.91,"body":"hold it against me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.21,"endTime":481.93,"body":"but it's really not necessary."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.21,"endTime":481.93,"body":"And it actually pulled focus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.93,"endTime":484.54,"body":"from what you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.93,"endTime":484.54,"body":"with the other person onto"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.54,"endTime":487.24,"body":"yourself and that does not help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.54,"endTime":487.24,"body":"your cause."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":487.36,"endTime":489.31,"body":"I've done that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":487.36,"endTime":489.31,"body":"I'll send an email and I'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":489.31,"endTime":493.87,"body":"just, I'll replay it in my mind,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":489.31,"endTime":493.87,"body":"I'll go, oh, maybe that was more"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":493.9,"endTime":498.25,"body":"harsh, harsher than I intended"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":493.9,"endTime":498.25,"body":"it to be. And I'll wait and wait"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":498.25,"endTime":500.32,"body":"and wait. And if I don't get a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":498.25,"endTime":500.32,"body":"response back in whatever the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":500.32,"endTime":503.26,"body":"timeline, I've decided is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":500.32,"endTime":503.26,"body":"appropriate time that I start"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":503.26,"endTime":505.57,"body":"telling this story to myself,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":503.26,"endTime":505.57,"body":"but how they're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":505.57,"endTime":508.9,"body":"getting ready to fire me and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":505.57,"endTime":508.9,"body":"going to call HR and when it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":508.9,"endTime":509.32,"body":"nothing."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":510.42,"endTime":515.07,"body":"Exactly, exactly these things"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":510.42,"endTime":515.07,"body":"looms so much larger for us."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":515.22,"endTime":518.49,"body":"Because honestly, I once I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":515.22,"endTime":518.49,"body":"learned I mean, I really I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":518.49,"endTime":522.27,"body":"really learned in my heart, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":518.49,"endTime":522.27,"body":"most people are really concerned"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":522.27,"endTime":526.44,"body":"about themselves, and only have"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":522.27,"endTime":526.44,"body":"a small window into what you and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":526.44,"endTime":530.16,"body":"what you're doing, then that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":526.44,"endTime":530.16,"body":"means most of the things that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":530.16,"endTime":534.78,"body":"you're observing about yourself"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":530.16,"endTime":534.78,"body":"are you are either unobservable"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":534.78,"endTime":538.56,"body":"or just a total blip of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":534.78,"endTime":538.56,"body":"nothingness to the other person."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":538.95,"endTime":541.32,"body":"And then we can kind of get on"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":538.95,"endTime":541.32,"body":"with things and pay attention to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":541.32,"endTime":542.13,"body":"what is important."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":542.51,"endTime":547.79,"body":"Do you have any ways that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":542.51,"endTime":547.79,"body":"might suggest or offer for for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":547.82,"endTime":550.55,"body":"the new leaders out there to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":547.82,"endTime":550.55,"body":"recognize when they're doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":550.55,"endTime":553.52,"body":"that to themselves? Because one"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":550.55,"endTime":553.52,"body":"of my favorite sayings is quite"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":553.52,"endTime":556.52,"body":"often in the moment, it's very"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":553.52,"endTime":556.52,"body":"difficult to see when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":556.52,"endTime":559.52,"body":"doing something when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":556.52,"endTime":559.52,"body":"starting to go down, a shame"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":559.52,"endTime":560.09,"body":"spiral."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":560.57,"endTime":564.2,"body":"Yeah, so you know, sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":560.57,"endTime":564.2,"body":"like to just deep personalize"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":564.2,"endTime":568.82,"body":"it. So it's, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":564.2,"endTime":568.82,"body":"somebody did this to you, how"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":568.82,"endTime":573.71,"body":"would you feel? So, if you and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":568.82,"endTime":573.71,"body":"you can, this is a you know, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":573.71,"endTime":576.32,"body":"want to say oh, this is a muscle"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":573.71,"endTime":576.32,"body":"you can cultivate. So just if"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":576.47,"endTime":579.26,"body":"even if it's hard for you in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":576.47,"endTime":579.26,"body":"beginning, just by continuing to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":579.26,"endTime":585.89,"body":"ask this, you can exercise that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":579.26,"endTime":585.89,"body":"muscle. So one of its gonna draw"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":585.89,"endTime":590.93,"body":"upon. Peter Drucker, one of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":585.89,"endTime":590.93,"body":"founders of management"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":590.93,"endTime":595.16,"body":"consultant, as a science used to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":590.93,"endTime":595.16,"body":"have people just keep a tiny"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":595.16,"endTime":599.51,"body":"notebook of predictions, so that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":595.16,"endTime":599.51,"body":"you can fine tune your"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":599.51,"endTime":603.65,"body":"sensitivity as to what ends up"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":599.51,"endTime":603.65,"body":"being important and not. So of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":603.65,"endTime":605.84,"body":"course, you know, he was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":603.65,"endTime":605.84,"body":"operating in the 60's. So he"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":605.84,"endTime":608.03,"body":"probably did have a small"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":605.84,"endTime":608.03,"body":"notebook that he kept in his"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":608.03,"endTime":610.85,"body":"suit pocket. But of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":608.03,"endTime":610.85,"body":"there's a million ways to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":610.85,"endTime":613.82,"body":"this. I sometimes I have a Slack"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":610.85,"endTime":613.82,"body":"channel devoted to this, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":613.82,"endTime":617.15,"body":"it's not shared with anybody."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":613.82,"endTime":617.15,"body":"It's just for myself, where I,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":617.21,"endTime":621.11,"body":"if I find myself ruminating"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":617.21,"endTime":621.11,"body":"about something, that I make a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":621.11,"endTime":623.96,"body":"little prediction, and I say,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":621.11,"endTime":623.96,"body":"well, because of this, this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":623.96,"endTime":628.01,"body":"factor led to this factor. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":623.96,"endTime":628.01,"body":"Hmm, they they did that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":628.01,"endTime":631.94,"body":"presentation last week. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":628.01,"endTime":631.94,"body":"there was this weird silence"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":631.94,"endTime":635.87,"body":"after I presented that slide."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":631.94,"endTime":635.87,"body":"And now that's bothering me, so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":635.87,"endTime":639.71,"body":"I'm going to predict that I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":635.87,"endTime":639.71,"body":"going to hear about that slide"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":639.71,"endTime":643.1,"body":"from a client that they were"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":639.71,"endTime":643.1,"body":"wondering what was up with that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":643.1,"endTime":647.03,"body":"or that they didn't like that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":643.1,"endTime":647.03,"body":"part and then I'll just write it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":647.03,"endTime":651.05,"body":"down. And then, like, weeks"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":647.03,"endTime":651.05,"body":"later, weeks will go by, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":651.05,"endTime":653.48,"body":"I'll be like, I haven't really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":651.05,"endTime":653.48,"body":"heard anything about that."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":653.51,"endTime":656.66,"body":"Nobody said anything about that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":653.51,"endTime":656.66,"body":"to me, everybody seems to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":656.66,"endTime":659.81,"body":"treating me the same. Nobody"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":656.66,"endTime":659.81,"body":"seems to have lost respect for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":659.81,"endTime":662.69,"body":"me in some way. Maybe that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":659.81,"endTime":662.69,"body":"didn't matter at all, that was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":662.69,"endTime":666.86,"body":"just me being really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":662.69,"endTime":666.86,"body":"hypersensitive. And so making"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":666.86,"endTime":670.1,"body":"these little predictions can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":666.86,"endTime":670.1,"body":"really help you help you figure"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":670.1,"endTime":674.66,"body":"out what matters and what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":670.1,"endTime":674.66,"body":"doesn't. You know, and it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":674.66,"endTime":677.39,"body":"difficult, because unless we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":674.66,"endTime":677.39,"body":"make the prediction on paper,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":677.39,"endTime":680.48,"body":"it's very easy for us just to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":677.39,"endTime":680.48,"body":"forget all about it, but by"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":680.48,"endTime":686.21,"body":"making it on paper or in digital"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":680.48,"endTime":686.21,"body":"form, you, it draws attention to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":686.21,"endTime":689.81,"body":"it, and then you can really see"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":686.21,"endTime":689.81,"body":"what that might be. And I found"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":689.81,"endTime":693.77,"body":"that to be a really useful tool"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":689.81,"endTime":693.77,"body":"for emerging leaders to see what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":693.77,"endTime":695.21,"body":"people attend to and what they"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":693.77,"endTime":695.21,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":696.86,"endTime":699.59,"body":"That's a, that is a really great"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":696.86,"endTime":699.59,"body":"point, I've never actually heard"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":699.59,"endTime":702.89,"body":"of it from that way, in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":699.59,"endTime":702.89,"body":"perspective before, because it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":702.89,"endTime":706.01,"body":"like you said, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":702.89,"endTime":706.01,"body":"shock will be there. But then"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":706.01,"endTime":708.53,"body":"when nothing happens, life kicks"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":706.01,"endTime":708.53,"body":"in, and we keep moving on, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":708.53,"endTime":711.35,"body":"we will forget about it. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":708.53,"endTime":711.35,"body":"because it generally isn't all"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":711.35,"endTime":715.1,"body":"that big a deal, really, we'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":711.35,"endTime":715.1,"body":"forget quickly. But it comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":715.1,"endTime":716.18,"body":"back again, it'll haunt us."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":716.0,"endTime":718.19,"body":"But if it was"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":716.0,"endTime":718.19,"body":"something we had to pay"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":718.19,"endTime":721.49,"body":"attention to you know, for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":718.19,"endTime":721.49,"body":"example, if we misspoke in a way"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":721.49,"endTime":727.58,"body":"that offended people, or if, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":721.49,"endTime":727.58,"body":"know, the plan we were making"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":727.58,"endTime":732.26,"body":"was truly inadequate, we'd be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":727.58,"endTime":732.26,"body":"hearing about it pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":732.26,"endTime":735.62,"body":"Yeah, so the fact that it feels"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":732.26,"endTime":735.62,"body":"so I like to, that's something"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":735.62,"endTime":739.67,"body":"you know, I'm a fairly high"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":735.62,"endTime":739.67,"body":"anxiety person, I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":739.67,"endTime":742.19,"body":"leaders have kind of a more"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":739.67,"endTime":742.19,"body":"anxious style and thought"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":742.19,"endTime":744.41,"body":"sometimes people think that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":742.19,"endTime":744.41,"body":"that's sort of a component that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":744.41,"endTime":747.53,"body":"makes people emerge as leaders"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":744.41,"endTime":747.53,"body":"is because people who have a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":747.53,"endTime":751.28,"body":"little bit of anxiety about the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":747.53,"endTime":751.28,"body":"details often really care a lot"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":751.28,"endTime":753.41,"body":"and look like, okay, they're a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":751.28,"endTime":753.41,"body":"person who's going to sweat the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":753.41,"endTime":756.05,"body":"details and make things happen,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":753.41,"endTime":756.05,"body":"let's have them in charge of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":756.05,"endTime":759.95,"body":"this. So you know, displaying a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":756.05,"endTime":759.95,"body":"little bit of anxiety about how"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":759.95,"endTime":763.79,"body":"things are going can can help"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":759.95,"endTime":763.79,"body":"put you in a leadership role."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":764.03,"endTime":766.31,"body":"But then in order to deal with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":764.03,"endTime":766.31,"body":"yourself and not go out of your"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":766.31,"endTime":768.68,"body":"mind, you have to see what is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":766.31,"endTime":768.68,"body":"actually important to other"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":768.68,"endTime":771.23,"body":"people. And just go on your own"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":768.68,"endTime":771.23,"body":"instinct."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":771.35,"endTime":773.09,"body":"I love how you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":771.35,"endTime":773.09,"body":"talked about, you know, we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":773.09,"endTime":775.82,"body":"turn this into a muscle and by"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":773.09,"endTime":775.82,"body":"people actually writing it down,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":775.82,"endTime":777.92,"body":"putting it in their phone,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":775.82,"endTime":777.92,"body":"creating a little video for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":777.92,"endTime":780.38,"body":"themselves to go back and look"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":777.92,"endTime":780.38,"body":"at that and remind themselves,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":780.47,"endTime":781.19,"body":"\"This was nothing.\""},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":781.6,"endTime":784.54,"body":"If you are a somewhat anxious"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":781.6,"endTime":784.54,"body":"person, you never run out of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":784.54,"endTime":787.87,"body":"things to worry about your"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":784.54,"endTime":787.87,"body":"because as you learn, you always"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":787.87,"endTime":790.27,"body":"learn about new things. And oh,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":787.87,"endTime":790.27,"body":"my goodness, I didn't even know"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":790.27,"endTime":793.51,"body":"about this two weeks ago, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":790.27,"endTime":793.51,"body":"in itself feels like data rather"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":793.51,"endTime":795.82,"body":"than noise, the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":793.51,"endTime":795.82,"body":"didn't know about it two weeks"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":795.82,"endTime":798.85,"body":"ago, and then you can go off on"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":795.82,"endTime":798.85,"body":"this whole spin with that, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":798.85,"endTime":802.06,"body":"this way, you know, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":798.85,"endTime":802.06,"body":"you don't hopefully, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":802.9,"endTime":806.44,"body":"help yourself, you know, learn"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":802.9,"endTime":806.44,"body":"the fact that you learned more,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":806.44,"endTime":808.78,"body":"and you haven't died yet. You"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":806.44,"endTime":808.78,"body":"know.  (Kim laughing)"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":810.49,"endTime":811.21,"body":"it's a good sign!"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":811.27,"endTime":814.87,"body":"I didn't three years ago, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":811.27,"endTime":814.87,"body":"you know, it somehow didn't kill"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":814.87,"endTime":818.17,"body":"me. So here I am. And but now I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":814.87,"endTime":818.17,"body":"know, that's even better, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":818.17,"endTime":820.0,"body":"know, to reframe in that way."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":821.26,"endTime":824.56,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":821.26,"endTime":824.56,"body":"Now, that's really great. I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":824.56,"endTime":827.95,"body":"wondering, as you know, when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":824.56,"endTime":827.95,"body":"we're thinking about the newer"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":827.95,"endTime":830.53,"body":"leaders and emerging leaders and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":827.95,"endTime":830.53,"body":"whatnot, and they're in charge"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":830.53,"endTime":832.54,"body":"of other people, and you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":830.53,"endTime":832.54,"body":"they're they're handing out"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":832.54,"endTime":835.3,"body":"assignments, or taskings, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":832.54,"endTime":835.3,"body":"whatever the terminology we want"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":835.3,"endTime":838.99,"body":"to use, how can we help them"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":835.3,"endTime":838.99,"body":"help others see when they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":838.99,"endTime":841.69,"body":"starting down that spiral role"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":838.99,"endTime":841.69,"body":"and help the emerging leaders"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":841.69,"endTime":843.88,"body":"help their team avoid that as"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":841.69,"endTime":843.88,"body":"well?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":844.5,"endTime":847.92,"body":"You know, I have one silver"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":844.5,"endTime":847.92,"body":"bullet for this, that it's kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":847.92,"endTime":851.46,"body":"of, and it's called a Retro. I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":847.92,"endTime":851.46,"body":"mean, some people call it an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":851.46,"endTime":854.64,"body":"after action review. That's what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":851.46,"endTime":854.64,"body":"they, at least in the American"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":854.64,"endTime":857.67,"body":"military, that's what they call"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":854.64,"endTime":857.67,"body":"a lot of fun. But the idea is to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":857.67,"endTime":861.06,"body":"have a regular meeting that X"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":857.67,"endTime":861.06,"body":"number of days or weeks after a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":861.06,"endTime":864.93,"body":"project, everybody gets together"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":861.06,"endTime":864.93,"body":"and goes through a structure"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":864.93,"endTime":867.54,"body":"this is important, not like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":864.93,"endTime":867.54,"body":"general conversation, but a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":867.54,"endTime":872.04,"body":"structured conversation about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":867.54,"endTime":872.04,"body":"what went well, what didn't go"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":872.04,"endTime":877.71,"body":"so well and what you want to try"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":872.04,"endTime":877.71,"body":"next time to do about this. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":877.71,"endTime":884.46,"body":"that's really all it is those"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":877.71,"endTime":884.46,"body":"three aspects. And this way, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":884.46,"endTime":887.7,"body":"know, we like, I've doneRetros"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":884.46,"endTime":887.7,"body":"before like to do it not like"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":887.7,"endTime":891.18,"body":"the second something shifts, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":887.7,"endTime":891.18,"body":"a little while after so it has a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":891.18,"endTime":894.93,"body":"minute to settle so that all of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":891.18,"endTime":894.93,"body":"the things that go through"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":894.93,"endTime":898.59,"body":"people's head where they say,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":894.93,"endTime":898.59,"body":"\"Oh my goodness, the project"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":898.59,"endTime":901.8,"body":"manager didn't do this, and new"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":898.59,"endTime":901.8,"body":"clients and they're that\", those"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":902.13,"endTime":906.24,"body":"moments for people, for people"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":902.13,"endTime":906.24,"body":"to forget about them. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":906.24,"endTime":909.21,"body":"way people can see what really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":906.24,"endTime":909.21,"body":"did make a difference in getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":909.21,"endTime":912.75,"body":"this out on time. For example,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":909.21,"endTime":912.75,"body":"on time on budget, or I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":912.75,"endTime":916.56,"body":"thinking of this specific"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":912.75,"endTime":916.56,"body":"project here. But what what I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":916.56,"endTime":920.28,"body":"found to be useful with that is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":916.56,"endTime":920.28,"body":"not so much what people say,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":920.28,"endTime":923.04,"body":"because we, if you're in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":920.28,"endTime":923.04,"body":"group, people will disagree,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":923.04,"endTime":926.31,"body":"people will say, \"Oh, well, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":923.04,"endTime":926.31,"body":"was terrible that we had that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":926.31,"endTime":928.89,"body":"setback from the client, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":926.31,"endTime":928.89,"body":"the client hated our first"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":928.89,"endTime":932.67,"body":"prototype. But now we have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":928.89,"endTime":932.67,"body":"better, we got to, but then we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":932.67,"endTime":935.13,"body":"got a better prototype. And it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":932.67,"endTime":935.13,"body":"really brought us together when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":935.13,"endTime":937.44,"body":"we had to do that.\" And some"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":935.13,"endTime":937.44,"body":"people focus on the brightest"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":937.44,"endTime":939.45,"body":"together. And some people who"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":937.44,"endTime":939.45,"body":"are, \"Oh, the client was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":939.45,"endTime":942.84,"body":"terrible!\" you know, but you,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":939.45,"endTime":942.84,"body":"you want to focus on what you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":942.84,"endTime":946.53,"body":"control what you can do about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":942.84,"endTime":946.53,"body":"things. So the fact that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":946.77,"endTime":952.89,"body":"everybody had a comment or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":946.77,"endTime":952.89,"body":"feeling or noticed that point in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":952.89,"endTime":955.86,"body":"the cycle is really the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":952.89,"endTime":955.86,"body":"important part, not the exact"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":957.42,"endTime":961.98,"body":"the reactions that people had,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":957.42,"endTime":961.98,"body":"or even necessarily what you did"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":961.98,"endTime":964.08,"body":"about it. But this is what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":961.98,"endTime":964.08,"body":"guides your thinking for next"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":964.08,"endTime":967.32,"body":"time. So there's again, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":964.08,"endTime":967.32,"body":"keep those really bare bones of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":967.68,"endTime":972.45,"body":"the beats of the story in mind,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":967.68,"endTime":972.45,"body":"and not get attached to well,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":972.45,"endTime":976.65,"body":"Jane said that I she didn't like"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":972.45,"endTime":976.65,"body":"the colors that I use. So I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":976.65,"endTime":980.25,"body":"guess she doesn't like pastels,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":976.65,"endTime":980.25,"body":"or whatever it is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":980.25,"endTime":984.87,"body":"which is not really useful"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":980.25,"endTime":984.87,"body":"information going forward, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":984.87,"endTime":987.69,"body":"know, we have a natural tendency"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":984.87,"endTime":987.69,"body":"to attribute everything to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":987.69,"endTime":993.66,"body":"personality, to that's just how"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":987.69,"endTime":993.66,"body":"gene is or you know, the client"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":993.66,"endTime":996.87,"body":"is tough, etc. That's kind of an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":993.66,"endTime":996.87,"body":"inborn thing. But most of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":996.9,"endTime":1000.68,"body":"situations we find ourselves in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":996.9,"endTime":1000.68,"body":"are actually more about systemic"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1000.68,"endTime":1004.01,"body":"functioning. So it's not the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1000.68,"endTime":1004.01,"body":"Jane doesn't like pastels next"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1004.01,"endTime":1008.69,"body":"time, she might totally like"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1004.01,"endTime":1008.69,"body":"pastels for for this clients,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1008.69,"endTime":1015.5,"body":"you know, but so that kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1008.69,"endTime":1015.5,"body":"knee jerk attributions we make"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1015.5,"endTime":1018.41,"body":"aren't really that helpful. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1015.5,"endTime":1018.41,"body":"instead saying, apparently,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1018.44,"endTime":1021.32,"body":"color choice makes a really big"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1018.44,"endTime":1021.32,"body":"difference for the client. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1021.32,"endTime":1024.17,"body":"let's be able to pay more"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1021.32,"endTime":1024.17,"body":"attention to that and then it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1024.17,"endTime":1026.81,"body":"turned out that they really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1024.17,"endTime":1026.81,"body":"didn't care about, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1028.97,"body":"many bullet points are on that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1028.97,"body":"slide. So that turned out to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1028.97,"endTime":1032.39,"body":"not something that anybody was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1028.97,"endTime":1032.39,"body":"very attached to. And it's those"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1032.39,"endTime":1034.19,"body":"patterns that you really want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1032.39,"endTime":1034.19,"body":"look for."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1034.4,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"That's really interesting, so in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1034.4,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"the Canadian Air Force, we call"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1039.68,"body":"it after action reports. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1039.68,"body":"And a lot of the different"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1039.95,"endTime":1043.67,"body":"things that we do revolve around"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1039.95,"endTime":1043.67,"body":"helping us not do something"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1043.67,"endTime":1046.91,"body":"wrong again, or see an error or"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1043.67,"endTime":1046.91,"body":"not, not look for negligence."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1046.91,"endTime":1049.94,"body":"Yeah, but look, look, look for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1046.91,"endTime":1049.94,"body":"the patterns to help things go"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1049.94,"endTime":1054.29,"body":"better and smoother going"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1049.94,"endTime":1054.29,"body":"forward. And I've experienced at"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1054.32,"endTime":1056.87,"body":"different times, there were the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1054.32,"endTime":1056.87,"body":"new new leaders in charge, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1056.87,"endTime":1058.64,"body":"they don't want, almost don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1056.87,"endTime":1058.64,"body":"want to admit that there could"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1058.64,"endTime":1061.25,"body":"have been a mistake or an error,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1058.64,"endTime":1061.25,"body":"because their own pride, their"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1061.25,"endTime":1064.1,"body":"own internal competition,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1061.25,"endTime":1064.1,"body":"interpersonal competition,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1065.24,"endTime":1065.72,"body":"isholding them back."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1066.62,"endTime":1070.97,"body":"Yes, right. And that's so much"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1066.62,"endTime":1070.97,"body":"to do with identity, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1071.06,"endTime":1074.6,"body":"and our vision of ourselves as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1071.06,"endTime":1074.6,"body":"person who makes the call. And,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1074.63,"endTime":1077.12,"body":"you know, that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1074.63,"endTime":1077.12,"body":"reasons I say leadership is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1077.12,"endTime":1080.54,"body":"actually intensely personal,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1077.12,"endTime":1080.54,"body":"because if your vision of who a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1080.54,"endTime":1086.0,"body":"leader is, is an unerring"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1080.54,"endTime":1086.0,"body":"visionary, then it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1086.0,"endTime":1089.15,"body":"very hard for you to deal with"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1086.0,"endTime":1089.15,"body":"the fact that you're learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1089.15,"endTime":1094.4,"body":"how to lead. And that people may"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1089.15,"endTime":1094.4,"body":"not just want you to bark orders"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1094.4,"endTime":1098.39,"body":"at them. But instead to be able"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1094.4,"endTime":1098.39,"body":"to see the complexities of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1098.42,"endTime":1101.0,"body":"detail, to be able to tell that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1098.42,"endTime":1101.0,"body":"you can see the complexities of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1101.0,"endTime":1104.57,"body":"the problem and that you are"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1101.0,"endTime":1104.57,"body":"weighing in about that rather"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1104.57,"endTime":1111.38,"body":"than just, you know, doing doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1104.57,"endTime":1111.38,"body":"like 40s movie war hero. And so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1111.38,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"and having this mastermind"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1111.38,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"approach to everything."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1114.47,"endTime":1119.3,"body":"It comes back to, and it seems"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1114.47,"endTime":1119.3,"body":"to me, the WHY of something, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1119.3,"endTime":1122.87,"body":"ability to get information is so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1119.3,"endTime":1122.87,"body":"easy now that if we don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1122.87,"endTime":1125.39,"body":"provide the why they're gonna go"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1122.87,"endTime":1125.39,"body":"find it, they'll go into"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1125.42,"endTime":1128.15,"body":"Inter-Google, which I love to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1125.42,"endTime":1128.15,"body":"call it, and they'll tell you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1128.15,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"the first hit is the thing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1128.15,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"will be the new truth, whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1134.21,"body":"or not it is it's the new truth."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1134.21,"body":"So if we don't provide that why,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1134.21,"endTime":1138.11,"body":"it's important to people, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1134.21,"endTime":1138.11,"body":"generally, generally, people"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1138.11,"endTime":1140.45,"body":"tend to be a little more"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1138.11,"endTime":1140.45,"body":"educated now. And then, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1140.45,"endTime":1144.47,"body":"know, 60-70 years ago and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1140.45,"endTime":1144.47,"body":"whatnot. So there's more of an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1144.47,"endTime":1147.65,"body":"openness, my experience has been"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1144.47,"endTime":1147.65,"body":"to understand the why of things."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1147.68,"endTime":1151.19,"body":"And from a military perspective,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1147.68,"endTime":1151.19,"body":"it was just shut the hell up."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1151.0,"endTime":1154.57,"body":"That command and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1151.0,"endTime":1154.57,"body":"control leadership style, works"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1154.57,"endTime":1157.72,"body":"great for some things and is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1154.57,"endTime":1157.72,"body":"terrible for other things. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1157.72,"endTime":1160.99,"body":"what has happened is that the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1157.72,"endTime":1160.99,"body":"kind of businesses that we have"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1160.99,"endTime":1165.55,"body":"now, it's terrible for it's not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1160.99,"endTime":1165.55,"body":"that everybody's gotten nice or"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1165.55,"endTime":1169.24,"body":"gotten soft. It's that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1165.55,"endTime":1169.24,"body":"businesses need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1169.24,"endTime":1172.48,"body":"change on a dime, they need to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1169.24,"endTime":1172.48,"body":"be able to have information"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1172.48,"endTime":1177.46,"body":"coming up from the front ranks"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1172.48,"endTime":1177.46,"body":"up to the leadership. That's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1177.46,"endTime":1182.5,"body":"called employee voice. And that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1177.46,"endTime":1182.5,"body":"information flow from bottom to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1182.5,"endTime":1185.92,"body":"top is actually critical because"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1182.5,"endTime":1185.92,"body":"it's the people on the bottom"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1185.92,"endTime":1187.9,"body":"who have client with the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1185.92,"endTime":1187.9,"body":"customer who have contact with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1190.75,"body":"the customers and clients and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1190.75,"body":"who really know what people are"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1190.78,"endTime":1195.19,"body":"what's on people's minds. So if"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1190.78,"endTime":1195.19,"body":"they aren't able to have a voice"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1195.19,"endTime":1197.23,"body":"and things if things are only"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1195.19,"endTime":1197.23,"body":"coming from the top things that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1197.23,"endTime":1199.93,"body":"people are going to be the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1197.23,"endTime":1199.93,"body":"product is going to be a place"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1200.2,"endTime":1204.55,"body":"Service is going to be out of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1200.2,"endTime":1204.55,"body":"touch. And because the people,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1208.72,"body":"the executives are generally not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1208.72,"body":"the ones with the on the ground"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1208.72,"endTime":1212.86,"body":"client contact, and also think"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1208.72,"endTime":1212.86,"body":"things are more decentralized,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1212.89,"endTime":1215.8,"body":"we stay in companies for less"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1212.89,"endTime":1215.8,"body":"time, there's not a hierarchy to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1215.8,"endTime":1219.19,"body":"climb in most organizations. Now"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1215.8,"endTime":1219.19,"body":"there's some that is still very"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1219.19,"endTime":1224.2,"body":"militarily organized. So you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1219.19,"endTime":1224.2,"body":"know, medical teams tend to be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1224.68,"endTime":1228.73,"body":"have a more military"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1224.68,"endTime":1228.73,"body":"hierarchical thing. Here in Los"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1228.73,"endTime":1232.12,"body":"Angeles, the movie industry is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1228.73,"endTime":1232.12,"body":"very military precision"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1232.12,"endTime":1235.0,"body":"hierarchical, where if you were"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1232.12,"endTime":1235.0,"body":"in certain positions, we do not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1235.0,"endTime":1238.0,"body":"care what you think you do what"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1235.0,"endTime":1238.0,"body":"you're told, and you will put in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1238.0,"endTime":1240.88,"body":"your time before you're allowed"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1238.0,"endTime":1240.88,"body":"to tell anybody else what to do."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1242.68,"endTime":1245.74,"body":"Much more said, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1242.68,"endTime":1245.74,"body":"really funny, because a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1245.74,"endTime":1248.83,"body":"it is like, you know, places"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1245.74,"endTime":1248.83,"body":"where we're sort of performance"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1248.83,"endTime":1252.97,"body":"on, on a timeframe is really"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1248.83,"endTime":1252.97,"body":"very critical. And they tend to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1253.03,"endTime":1256.84,"body":"then and so it's not like out of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1253.03,"endTime":1256.84,"body":"the blue, there's a reason why"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1256.87,"endTime":1262.24,"body":"teams are organized this way."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1256.87,"endTime":1262.24,"body":"And, but most other industries"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1262.24,"endTime":1265.03,"body":"you need are a lot more"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1262.24,"endTime":1265.03,"body":"decentralized and people are a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1265.03,"endTime":1268.78,"body":"lot, people need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1265.03,"endTime":1268.78,"body":"have a voice both directions be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1268.78,"endTime":1272.05,"body":"and also because of the march of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1268.78,"endTime":1272.05,"body":"technology going very fast and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1272.05,"endTime":1275.62,"body":"it tends to be the younger"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1272.05,"endTime":1275.62,"body":"people who get are more aware of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1275.62,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"what else is there on the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1275.62,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"horizon, rather than getting"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1282.73,"body":"attached to one tool. So, so"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1282.73,"body":"that's part of why the command"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1282.73,"endTime":1285.43,"body":"and control culture just doesn't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1282.73,"endTime":1285.43,"body":"work for most businesses"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1285.43,"endTime":1285.97,"body":"anymore."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1286.32,"endTime":1287.88,"body":"As I was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1286.32,"endTime":1287.88,"body":"preparing for this, I was"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1287.88,"endTime":1291.3,"body":"looking at your website, and I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1287.88,"endTime":1291.3,"body":"came across your blogs, and one"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1291.3,"endTime":1294.27,"body":"of the ones you talked about is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1291.3,"endTime":1294.27,"body":"well the title is, \"Do I have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1294.27,"endTime":1297.36,"body":"be a jerk to be a good boss?\""},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1294.27,"endTime":1297.36,"body":"(Kim Laughing), and you and I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1297.36,"endTime":1299.61,"body":"loved it, because it brought up"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1297.36,"endTime":1299.61,"body":"some really great points. You"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1299.61,"endTime":1304.26,"body":"know, you talked about the, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1299.61,"endTime":1304.26,"body":"great man theory, and and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1304.29,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"there's these expectations of,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1304.29,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"\"I'm the great man, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1310.44,"body":"stand here with my hands on my"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1310.44,"body":"hips. And clearly I'm in charge"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1310.44,"endTime":1315.33,"body":"because my hands are on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1310.44,"endTime":1315.33,"body":"hips.\" And I'm a man, and I\"'m"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1315.33,"endTime":1318.27,"body":"going to be a jerk because I got"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1315.33,"endTime":1318.27,"body":"away with that\". Yeah, no, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1318.27,"endTime":1323.97,"body":"those days? You know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1318.27,"endTime":1323.97,"body":"my, my thought to this would be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1323.97,"endTime":1327.12,"body":"that sometimes people, you as"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1323.97,"endTime":1327.12,"body":"the boss, you have to make the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1327.12,"endTime":1329.55,"body":"unpopular decision, the emerging"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1327.12,"endTime":1329.55,"body":"leader, you're gonna have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1329.55,"endTime":1332.22,"body":"make the call where people need"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1329.55,"endTime":1332.22,"body":"to stay late. That doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1332.22,"endTime":1334.92,"body":"you're a jerk, though, that just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1332.22,"endTime":1334.92,"body":"means that you're making the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1334.92,"endTime":1338.22,"body":"decisions based off the position"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1334.92,"endTime":1338.22,"body":"that you're currently in, or you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1338.22,"endTime":1341.25,"body":"the role, the function you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1338.22,"endTime":1341.25,"body":"is to make those choices. Right,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1341.25,"endTime":1342.9,"body":"that might not be popular, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1341.25,"endTime":1342.9,"body":"that's okay."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1342.9,"endTime":1345.63,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1342.9,"endTime":1345.63,"body":"You know, there's a, there's a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1345.63,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"quote that I always loved about"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1345.63,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"leadership that is in order to,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1350.28,"endTime":1352.62,"body":"you know, I, you know, what I'm"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1350.28,"endTime":1352.62,"body":"spacing on this quote, so"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1352.62,"endTime":1356.61,"body":"nevermind, but, but the idea is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1352.62,"endTime":1356.61,"body":"that you if anytime you're going"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1356.61,"endTime":1359.19,"body":"to make a decision, you're"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1356.61,"endTime":1359.19,"body":"turning your back on a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1359.19,"endTime":1363.24,"body":"other decisions, and anybody"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1359.19,"endTime":1363.24,"body":"who's allied with that, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1363.24,"endTime":1365.97,"body":"that's, that's inevitable,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1363.24,"endTime":1365.97,"body":"because you have to face the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1365.97,"endTime":1370.47,"body":"direction, you have to take a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1365.97,"endTime":1370.47,"body":"stand. And that's something that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1370.47,"endTime":1373.71,"body":"I think is hard for emerging"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1370.47,"endTime":1373.71,"body":"leaders, especially people who"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1373.71,"endTime":1375.63,"body":"want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1373.71,"endTime":1375.63,"body":"everybody's happy or feel"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1375.63,"endTime":1380.1,"body":"responsible for the flock, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1375.63,"endTime":1380.1,"body":"know. But that's also something"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1380.1,"endTime":1383.94,"body":"that needs to be done for the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1380.1,"endTime":1383.94,"body":"good of the group, who, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1383.94,"endTime":1386.46,"body":"know, and I don't mean this in a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1383.94,"endTime":1386.46,"body":"paternalistic sense. But I mean,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1386.46,"endTime":1389.7,"body":"the leader has a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1386.46,"endTime":1389.7,"body":"vision, and is looking out over"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1389.73,"endTime":1393.72,"body":"the unit in a way that any"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1389.73,"endTime":1393.72,"body":"individual member of that unit"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1393.72,"endTime":1397.71,"body":"is not. And sometimes you have"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1393.72,"endTime":1397.71,"body":"to be able to do that."},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1399.76,"endTime":1402.22,"body":"Oh, Hello, there."},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1399.76,"endTime":1402.22,"body":"It's Glenn, the voiceover"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1402.22,"endTime":1405.4,"body":"artist, and if you're hearing"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1402.22,"endTime":1405.4,"body":"me, that means we're at the"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1405.4,"endTime":1409.87,"body":"midpoint of this episode, do you"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1405.4,"endTime":1409.87,"body":"have an idea for an episode that"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1409.87,"endTime":1413.86,"body":"you feel is vital for emerging"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1409.87,"endTime":1413.86,"body":"leaders, leave the idea in the"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1413.86,"endTime":1417.55,"body":"comment section, and if your"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1413.86,"endTime":1417.55,"body":"topic is chosen, you will have"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1417.55,"endTime":1420.85,"body":"the opportunity to join us as a"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1417.55,"endTime":1420.85,"body":"co host during the recording"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1420.85,"endTime":1427.54,"body":"session. So drop us a note, and"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1420.85,"endTime":1427.54,"body":"let's talk. This podcast is made"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1427.54,"endTime":1431.56,"body":"possible by listeners like you,"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1427.54,"endTime":1431.56,"body":"and if you feel we've earned it,"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1431.68,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"please tell your friends and"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1431.68,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"leave a review to help us grow"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1434.92,"endTime":1439.0,"body":"our following. And now, back to"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":1434.92,"endTime":1439.0,"body":"the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1444.31,"endTime":1445.6,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1444.31,"endTime":1445.6,"body":"things I talked about in my"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1445.6,"endTime":1449.65,"body":"book, I talked about this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1445.6,"endTime":1449.65,"body":"concept of Toxic Excellence, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1449.92,"endTime":1452.38,"body":"this is something that I've seen"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1449.92,"endTime":1452.38,"body":"emerge in a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1452.38,"endTime":1458.38,"body":"cultures where people are very"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1452.38,"endTime":1458.38,"body":"efficient at getting results,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1458.41,"endTime":1461.62,"body":"they're very results oriented,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1458.41,"endTime":1461.62,"body":"results are the only thing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1461.62,"endTime":1464.8,"body":"matters and people are so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1461.62,"endTime":1464.8,"body":"therefore a company might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1464.83,"endTime":1468.46,"body":"making a lot of money and doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1464.83,"endTime":1468.46,"body":"and having the growth they want"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1468.46,"endTime":1470.98,"body":"and everything is fine, except"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1468.46,"endTime":1470.98,"body":"for the fact that everybody"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1470.98,"endTime":1473.83,"body":"hates each other and they hate"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1470.98,"endTime":1473.83,"body":"their life. That was a really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1473.83,"endTime":1478.0,"body":"big impetus for me to write this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1473.83,"endTime":1478.0,"body":"book, Winner Take None, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1478.33,"endTime":1480.85,"body":"I've seen that over and over"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1478.33,"endTime":1480.85,"body":"again, where people are like,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1480.85,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"well, we're doing fine. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1480.85,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"like but are you because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1484.21,"endTime":1486.97,"body":"everybody's about to quit and go"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1484.21,"endTime":1486.97,"body":"work for your competitor."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1490.36,"endTime":1491.92,"body":"Not a good sign. Not a good"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1490.36,"endTime":1491.92,"body":"sign."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1492.16,"endTime":1495.31,"body":"Or they're all contemplating,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1492.16,"endTime":1495.31,"body":"you know, I think I might really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1495.31,"endTime":1496.81,"body":"want to be a yoga teacher."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1498.13,"endTime":1499.51,"body":"I'm gonna go be one with nature."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1503.89,"body":"I'm gonna go be one with nature,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1503.89,"body":"you know, what if I just and so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1503.92,"endTime":1509.29,"body":"so what happens then is that? Do"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1503.92,"endTime":1509.29,"body":"you know, did you know Simon,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1509.29,"endTime":1513.49,"body":"how much time people spend on"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1509.29,"endTime":1513.49,"body":"office politics on average?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1515.359,"endTime":1516.079,"body":"I'm not sure."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1516.84,"endTime":1520.38,"body":"About 40% in the average"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1516.84,"endTime":1520.38,"body":"corporate large corporation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1520.59,"endTime":1524.07,"body":"large corporation is just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1520.59,"endTime":1524.07,"body":"thinking through strategy so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1524.07,"endTime":1529.02,"body":"that people will not nice them"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1524.07,"endTime":1529.02,"body":"in the bag or kill their"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1529.02,"endTime":1533.88,"body":"projects or will slow off their"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1529.02,"endTime":1533.88,"body":"projects. And like, if you could"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1533.88,"endTime":1537.24,"body":"even just get back 5% of that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1533.88,"endTime":1537.24,"body":"how much better ahead of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1537.24,"endTime":1538.02,"body":"game would you be?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1538.05,"endTime":1540.66,"body":"When we're talking about, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1538.05,"endTime":1540.66,"body":"know, companies that are meant,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1540.78,"endTime":1545.55,"body":"that exist to make a profit 40%"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1540.78,"endTime":1545.55,"body":"ofthat time is now not being"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1545.55,"endTime":1547.62,"body":"spent trying to make a profit."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1545.55,"endTime":1547.62,"body":"That's huge!"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1547.66,"endTime":1552.04,"body":"That's right. It's just spent"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1547.66,"endTime":1552.04,"body":"working on internal politics."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1552.49,"endTime":1555.1,"body":"And so that's one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1552.49,"endTime":1555.1,"body":"why communication is so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1555.1,"endTime":1557.98,"body":"important, why that that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1555.1,"endTime":1557.98,"body":"interior view that you have of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1557.98,"endTime":1560.83,"body":"leadership and what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1557.98,"endTime":1560.83,"body":"here, and why you're doing it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1561.46,"endTime":1564.73,"body":"ends up taking up so much space,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1561.46,"endTime":1564.73,"body":"because why you're doing it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1564.73,"endTime":1569.5,"body":"comes out. And if you're doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1564.73,"endTime":1569.5,"body":"it just to get a paycheck, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1569.53,"endTime":1573.22,"body":"you're really likely aligning"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1569.53,"endTime":1573.22,"body":"yourself with sort of a toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1573.22,"endTime":1576.34,"body":"excellence model, where we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1573.22,"endTime":1576.34,"body":"all here to make money and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1576.34,"endTime":1579.22,"body":"whether we have a good time, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1576.34,"endTime":1579.22,"body":"whether we enjoy each other,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1579.22,"endTime":1582.91,"body":"whether we learn anything, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1579.22,"endTime":1582.91,"body":"know, we're all playing very"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1582.91,"endTime":1587.02,"body":"defensively. And then we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1582.91,"endTime":1587.02,"body":"losing out on the possibility of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1587.02,"endTime":1590.08,"body":"a lot of creativity, innovation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1587.02,"endTime":1590.08,"body":"and ultimately, we might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1590.08,"endTime":1592.81,"body":"making money now. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1590.08,"endTime":1592.81,"body":"really going to be happening"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1592.81,"endTime":1593.38,"body":"forever."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1593.45,"endTime":1596.75,"body":"It seems to me if that, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1593.45,"endTime":1596.75,"body":"toxicity, is there the ability"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1596.75,"endTime":1600.02,"body":"to create those cohesive teams"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1596.75,"endTime":1600.02,"body":"to move forward to be more...."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1607.65,"body":"Yeah, yeah, exactly. So a bit."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1607.65,"body":"So basically, people get into"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1607.65,"endTime":1609.93,"body":"this thing that I've learned"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1607.65,"endTime":1609.93,"body":"that and this is the thing, this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1609.93,"endTime":1612.48,"body":"is something that I feel happens"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1609.93,"endTime":1612.48,"body":"with middle managers, and people"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1612.48,"endTime":1615.33,"body":"who've been in corporations or"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1612.48,"endTime":1615.33,"body":"certain industries for a while,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1615.33,"endTime":1618.6,"body":"especially if it's highly"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1615.33,"endTime":1618.6,"body":"technical, is that they say I've"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1618.6,"endTime":1622.59,"body":"learned how to work this system."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1618.6,"endTime":1622.59,"body":"So we're going to just keep this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1622.59,"endTime":1625.59,"body":"system, because I know how to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1622.59,"endTime":1625.59,"body":"work it. And I'm not going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1625.74,"endTime":1628.29,"body":"support any new ideas. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1625.74,"endTime":1628.29,"body":"not certainly not going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1628.29,"endTime":1633.27,"body":"power with anybody. And yet,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1628.29,"endTime":1633.27,"body":"figuring out how to support new"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1633.27,"endTime":1637.35,"body":"ideas and share power is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1633.27,"endTime":1637.35,"body":"only way toward a longer term"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1637.38,"endTime":1642.48,"body":"resilience. And where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1637.38,"endTime":1642.48,"body":"strategically."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1642.54,"endTime":1645.75,"body":"I've seen it time and time"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1642.54,"endTime":1645.75,"body":"again, where you know, the the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1649.29,"body":"person stays in the role for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1649.29,"body":"years and years and years and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1649.29,"endTime":1651.93,"body":"then all of a sudden, they leave"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1649.29,"endTime":1651.93,"body":"for whatever reason, and there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1651.93,"endTime":1655.41,"body":"this big giant vacuum, or other"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1651.93,"endTime":1655.41,"body":"side of that you'll get the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1655.41,"endTime":1657.96,"body":"people where they're like, holy"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1655.41,"endTime":1657.96,"body":"wow, what's going on here? And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1657.96,"endTime":1660.03,"body":"it's just it's just a mess. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1657.96,"endTime":1660.03,"body":"everyone's confused, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1660.03,"endTime":1664.23,"body":"everyone gets upset. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1660.03,"endTime":1664.23,"body":"it's, it's dangerous. Dangerous."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1664.26,"endTime":1668.58,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it means that when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1664.26,"endTime":1668.58,"body":"something when some black swan"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1668.58,"endTime":1672.09,"body":"event happens, like the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1668.58,"endTime":1672.09,"body":"pandemic, for example, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1672.12,"endTime":1676.98,"body":"suddenly there's chaos and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1672.12,"endTime":1676.98,"body":"there's no, like backup plans or"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1676.98,"endTime":1681.6,"body":"backup, ways of thinking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1676.98,"endTime":1681.6,"body":"how to deal with this. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1681.6,"endTime":1684.9,"body":"there's a lack of creativity,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1681.6,"endTime":1684.9,"body":"and there's a certain rigidity"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1684.9,"endTime":1687.33,"body":"around it. And that's when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1684.9,"endTime":1687.33,"body":"people back in, that's an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1687.33,"endTime":1688.14,"body":"organization scrapped."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1688.92,"endTime":1692.19,"body":"I think maybe we see it a lot, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1688.92,"endTime":1692.19,"body":"can't speak for in the United"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1692.19,"endTime":1696.21,"body":"States, but in Canada, we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1692.19,"endTime":1696.21,"body":"seen more retail stores like big"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1696.21,"endTime":1698.88,"body":"box stores, retail stores, just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1696.21,"endTime":1698.88,"body":"stop,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1698.91,"endTime":1699.42,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1699.54,"endTime":1700.8,"body":"You know, of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1699.54,"endTime":1700.8,"body":"course, everyone's close, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1700.8,"endTime":1703.17,"body":"like we're talking to like major"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1700.8,"endTime":1703.17,"body":"stores that you would never"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1703.17,"endTime":1706.98,"body":"consider just going away, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1703.17,"endTime":1706.98,"body":"they're just gone now. Because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1706.98,"endTime":1711.24,"body":"they weren't prepared at all,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1706.98,"endTime":1711.24,"body":"for what COVID might happen. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1711.24,"endTime":1714.96,"body":"I think they, you know, a little"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1711.24,"endTime":1714.96,"body":"bit of, it's easy for me to say"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1714.96,"endTime":1717.3,"body":"this not being in any one of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1714.96,"endTime":1717.3,"body":"these companies. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1717.33,"endTime":1721.11,"body":"maybe some quicker reaction time"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1717.33,"endTime":1721.11,"body":"to understand how, you know, see"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1721.11,"endTime":1723.78,"body":"the broader spectrum might have"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1721.11,"endTime":1723.78,"body":"been helpful, but yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1723.78,"endTime":1726.36,"body":"know, like, different, maybe"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1723.78,"endTime":1726.36,"body":"some more reactive leadership"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1726.39,"endTime":1726.96,"body":"might have been?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1727.2,"endTime":1727.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1728.19,"endTime":1729.57,"body":"But we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1728.19,"endTime":1729.57,"body":"talking about, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1729.57,"endTime":1732.51,"body":"you talked about winner take"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1729.57,"endTime":1732.51,"body":"nine and the importance of that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1732.51,"endTime":1735.84,"body":"and inside that we're discussing"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1732.51,"endTime":1735.84,"body":"this toxic, excellent, is there"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1735.84,"endTime":1738.33,"body":"any ways that you would think"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1735.84,"endTime":1738.33,"body":"that you know, as the emerging"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1738.33,"endTime":1741.18,"body":"leaders, they could see that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1738.33,"endTime":1741.18,"body":"this might be happening, so they"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1741.18,"endTime":1744.3,"body":"could, you know, recognize it,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1741.18,"endTime":1744.3,"body":"and then take whatever steps you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1744.3,"endTime":1748.05,"body":"might recommend to be able to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1744.3,"endTime":1748.05,"body":"rectify whatever the situation"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1748.05,"endTime":1748.47,"body":"might be?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1748.77,"endTime":1753.33,"body":"Yeah, good question. One of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1748.77,"endTime":1753.33,"body":"things that I found really"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1753.33,"endTime":1758.85,"body":"telling is how people react to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1753.33,"endTime":1758.85,"body":"new ideas. If people go straight"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1758.88,"endTime":1761.31,"body":"to I mean, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1758.88,"endTime":1761.31,"body":"cultures where everybody goes"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1761.31,"endTime":1763.62,"body":"straight to well, that won't"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1761.31,"endTime":1763.62,"body":"work because and a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1763.62,"endTime":1766.53,"body":"reasons are well, because we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1763.62,"endTime":1766.53,"body":"tried it in 1985 and it didn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1766.53,"endTime":1773.22,"body":"work then. or so until will"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1766.53,"endTime":1773.22,"body":"never go for it. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1773.22,"endTime":1775.83,"body":"feel behind the organization's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1773.22,"endTime":1775.83,"body":"for me trying to make change"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1775.83,"endTime":1778.59,"body":"now. Like let's see, oh, no,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1775.83,"endTime":1778.59,"body":"about this. Of course, I see"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1778.59,"endTime":1781.29,"body":"your notes about this. That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1778.59,"endTime":1781.29,"body":"why I'm here. But the question"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1781.29,"endTime":1788.04,"body":"is, you know, meant to be you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1781.29,"endTime":1788.04,"body":"know, who based on personalities"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1788.04,"endTime":1793.14,"body":"and and imagined credit"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1788.04,"endTime":1793.14,"body":"elections. Right, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1793.14,"endTime":1796.83,"body":"makes sense. Yeah. And so when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1793.14,"endTime":1796.83,"body":"things are that entrenched that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1797.22,"endTime":1800.7,"body":"you can't consider a new"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1797.22,"endTime":1800.7,"body":"strategic idea. Because Joe"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1800.7,"endTime":1803.82,"body":"might have a problem with it."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1800.7,"endTime":1803.82,"body":"And that's your first thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1803.85,"endTime":1807.54,"body":"that to me is like Ding, ding,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1803.85,"endTime":1807.54,"body":"ding, ding, ding, red flag count"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1807.54,"endTime":1810.54,"body":"how many times I've heard Wow,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1807.54,"endTime":1810.54,"body":"we thought of that before it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1810.54,"endTime":1811.08,"body":"didn't work."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1811.11,"endTime":1812.49,"body":"Yeah.... 30 years ago..."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1814.56,"endTime":1817.11,"body":"When everything was"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1814.56,"endTime":1817.11,"body":"completely different before the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1817.11,"endTime":1821.04,"body":"internet, when expectations were"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1817.11,"endTime":1821.04,"body":"completely different when we"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1821.04,"endTime":1824.04,"body":"weren't changing on a dime, when"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1821.04,"endTime":1824.04,"body":"we were when it wasn't normal"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1824.04,"endTime":1827.7,"body":"for an organization to pivot"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1824.04,"endTime":1827.7,"body":"every couple of years, stay in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1827.7,"endTime":1830.46,"body":"touch with the market. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1827.7,"endTime":1830.46,"body":"yeah, that's a wholly totally"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1830.46,"endTime":1833.34,"body":"different world and so in a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1830.46,"endTime":1833.34,"body":"really processed story oriented"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1833.34,"endTime":1837.57,"body":"organization, that will seem"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1833.34,"endTime":1837.57,"body":"like a reasonable proposition"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1838.08,"endTime":1842.1,"body":"until you kind of push on it for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1838.08,"endTime":1842.1,"body":"a second. So I like to so as a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1842.13,"endTime":1844.71,"body":"kind of a bellwether, I like to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1842.13,"endTime":1844.71,"body":"think about what's the nature of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1844.71,"endTime":1848.7,"body":"the pushback I'm getting here?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1844.71,"endTime":1848.7,"body":"So if the nature is well, how"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1848.7,"endTime":1853.17,"body":"would you know, we can't do"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1848.7,"endTime":1853.17,"body":"that? Because we aren't sure how"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1853.17,"endTime":1855.72,"body":"that would affect the supply"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1853.17,"endTime":1855.72,"body":"chain or something. You know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1855.72,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"that's like, that's a real"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1855.72,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"objection. Let's think that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1862.05,"body":"through, okay. But if it's just"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1862.05,"body":"personality based, or if it is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1862.05,"endTime":1864.93,"body":"we, we tried that and it didn't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1862.05,"endTime":1864.93,"body":"work, and it was in a completely"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1864.93,"endTime":1868.47,"body":"different situation, then that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1864.93,"endTime":1868.47,"body":"to me is that to me is okay,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1868.47,"endTime":1870.75,"body":"there's something happening here"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1868.47,"endTime":1870.75,"body":"where people are spending more"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1870.75,"endTime":1876.12,"body":"time protecting the status quo,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1870.75,"endTime":1876.12,"body":"then they are thinking about the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1876.12,"endTime":1879.18,"body":"possibilities. Yes."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1879.9,"endTime":1881.34,"body":"Oh, there you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1879.9,"endTime":1881.34,"body":"go, I cut you off. Sorry."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1881.34,"endTime":1884.49,"body":"Oh, yeah, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1881.34,"endTime":1884.49,"body":"know, in an organization,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1886.71,"body":"that's, that's ready to think"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1884.49,"endTime":1886.71,"body":"about the possibilities, they"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1886.71,"endTime":1889.83,"body":"actually will entertain it, they"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1886.71,"endTime":1889.83,"body":"may still decide that this is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1889.83,"endTime":1892.41,"body":"not something they want to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1889.83,"endTime":1892.41,"body":"support, and that's fine, but at"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1892.41,"endTime":1895.08,"body":"least entertaining the idea"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1892.41,"endTime":1895.08,"body":"without shutting it down based"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1895.08,"endTime":1900.24,"body":"on personality, or, or previous"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1895.08,"endTime":1900.24,"body":"experience. That's a big, that's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1900.24,"endTime":1904.05,"body":"a big deal. You know, and I did"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1900.24,"endTime":1904.05,"body":"a big project on cynicism last"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1904.05,"endTime":1908.28,"body":"year, to really understand the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1904.05,"endTime":1908.28,"body":"idea of organizational cynicism,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1908.28,"endTime":1912.51,"body":"which is one characteristic of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1908.28,"endTime":1912.51,"body":"burnout. And if people just"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1912.51,"endTime":1917.25,"body":"reflexively saying, oh, that'll"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1912.51,"endTime":1917.25,"body":"never work. Because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1917.25,"endTime":1922.74,"body":"this organization doesn't care"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1917.25,"endTime":1922.74,"body":"about that. That's, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1922.74,"endTime":1924.81,"body":"gives you it's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1922.74,"endTime":1924.81,"body":"eating a bunch of Pringles"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1924.81,"endTime":1927.51,"body":"potato chips, you know, it makes"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1924.81,"endTime":1927.51,"body":"you feel good and makes you feel"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1927.51,"endTime":1931.56,"body":"special in the moment, because"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1927.51,"endTime":1931.56,"body":"you it's very easy to predict"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1932.34,"endTime":1939.24,"body":"that something will fail, you're"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1932.34,"endTime":1939.24,"body":"probably right. things being the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1939.24,"endTime":1941.43,"body":"way they are, I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1939.24,"endTime":1941.43,"body":"part of my point with loser,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1941.43,"endTime":1945.48,"body":"take none is that winning is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1941.43,"endTime":1945.48,"body":"actually rare, winning in any"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1945.48,"endTime":1948.21,"body":"way that you can really point"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1945.48,"endTime":1948.21,"body":"to, it's pretty rare and most of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1948.33,"endTime":1952.74,"body":"things, people and things are"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1948.33,"endTime":1952.74,"body":"losing, you know, in an"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1952.74,"endTime":1955.98,"body":"objective sense, losing"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1952.74,"endTime":1955.98,"body":"consistently, but that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1955.98,"endTime":1959.49,"body":"mean that they're dead. So that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1955.98,"endTime":1959.49,"body":"ability, that ability to try"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1959.49,"endTime":1961.77,"body":"stuff and think about trying"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1959.49,"endTime":1961.77,"body":"stuff, it's really what, what"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1961.8,"endTime":1965.37,"body":"what you want. And so, I... A"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1961.8,"endTime":1965.37,"body":"lot of times people don't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1965.37,"endTime":1967.86,"body":"question cynicism, when they"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1965.37,"endTime":1967.86,"body":"hear it, they just go around,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1968.22,"endTime":1971.16,"body":"and then they entrench about it."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1968.22,"endTime":1971.16,"body":"You know, well, \"Joe is pretty"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1971.16,"endTime":1975.33,"body":"cynical, so he won't go for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1971.16,"endTime":1975.33,"body":"anything.\" And, and that's I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1975.33,"endTime":1979.59,"body":"like to question cynics. I find"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1975.33,"endTime":1979.59,"body":"that cynics are disappointed"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1979.59,"endTime":1980.28,"body":"idealists."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1982.8,"endTime":1984.96,"body":"I like how you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1982.8,"endTime":1984.96,"body":"worded that, you know, and it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1984.96,"endTime":1987.87,"body":"interesting. So when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1984.96,"endTime":1987.87,"body":"talking about how can we get the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1988.2,"endTime":1991.14,"body":"help the emerging eeaders see"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1988.2,"endTime":1991.14,"body":"when it is you know, observe"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1991.14,"endTime":1993.36,"body":"those cynics and see those. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1991.14,"endTime":1993.36,"body":"I like that I like how you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1993.36,"endTime":1996.57,"body":"worded that? Could you hit that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1993.36,"endTime":1996.57,"body":"again? Already, I'm just gonna"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":1996.57,"endTime":1997.41,"body":"write it down what was"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1997.41,"endTime":2001.43,"body":"Yeah.... cynics are"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":1997.41,"endTime":2001.43,"body":"disappointed idealists. They"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2001.49,"endTime":2005.06,"body":"feel like they feel strongly"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2001.49,"endTime":2005.06,"body":"about how things should be and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2005.06,"endTime":2007.97,"body":"the current situations are"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2005.06,"endTime":2007.97,"body":"definitely not living up to that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2007.97,"endTime":2012.41,"body":"for them. And so they find it"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2007.97,"endTime":2012.41,"body":"more emotionally safe to just"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2012.41,"endTime":2013.94,"body":"toss the baby out with the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2012.41,"endTime":2013.94,"body":"bathwater."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2014.18,"endTime":2016.16,"body":"It's easier to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2014.18,"endTime":2016.16,"body":"just be upset about something"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2016.16,"endTime":2019.7,"body":"than actually try and be part of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2016.16,"endTime":2019.7,"body":"the positive solution in moving"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2019.7,"endTime":2022.1,"body":"forward. Because it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2019.7,"endTime":2022.1,"body":"sit there and be upset."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2022.55,"endTime":2024.89,"body":"Right, and you can"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2022.55,"endTime":2024.89,"body":"kind of trauma bond with people."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2024.89,"endTime":2027.05,"body":"I don't know, you know, people"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2024.89,"endTime":2027.05,"body":"don't always talk about that as"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2027.05,"endTime":2028.61,"body":"a leadership term. But I feel"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2027.05,"endTime":2028.61,"body":"like that's something that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2028.61,"endTime":2031.91,"body":"happens in offices all the time,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2028.61,"endTime":2031.91,"body":"or in other workplace"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2031.91,"endTime":2033.77,"body":"environments. Where going,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2031.91,"endTime":2033.77,"body":"\"Yeah, this sucks, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2033.77,"endTime":2037.46,"body":"Yeah, you see as much this"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2033.77,"endTime":2037.46,"body":"sucks, so therefore we're on the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2037.46,"endTime":2041.81,"body":"same page, right?\" And so"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2037.46,"endTime":2041.81,"body":"that's, that can be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2041.81,"endTime":2046.07,"body":"very useful, bonding, but at a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2041.81,"endTime":2046.07,"body":"certain point that keeps you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2046.07,"endTime":2049.22,"body":"stuck and smaller, because you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2046.07,"endTime":2049.22,"body":"can't go the next day to the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2049.22,"endTime":2051.71,"body":"person and say, hey, that's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2049.22,"endTime":2051.71,"body":"really good thing happened."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2052.16,"endTime":2054.32,"body":"Because then they have to say,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2052.16,"endTime":2054.32,"body":"Yeah, but this sucks, right?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2054.32,"endTime":2055.97,"body":"Because that's where your bond"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2054.32,"endTime":2055.97,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2056.92,"endTime":2059.32,"body":"Exactly right."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2056.92,"endTime":2059.32,"body":"And once you started down that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2059.35,"endTime":2064.54,"body":"path, like it's it that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2059.35,"endTime":2064.54,"body":"leadership leader follower"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2064.6,"endTime":2068.02,"body":"relationship theory now has just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2064.6,"endTime":2068.02,"body":"been, oh, it's just been"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2068.02,"endTime":2070.57,"body":"crushed. And it's hard to get"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2068.02,"endTime":2070.57,"body":"any real, I don't want to say"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2070.9,"endTime":2073.6,"body":"get any real respect, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2070.9,"endTime":2073.6,"body":"definitely that, that deep"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2073.6,"endTime":2075.82,"body":"seated respect isn't is not"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2073.6,"endTime":2075.82,"body":"going to be there."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2075.85,"endTime":2077.98,"body":"And then yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2075.85,"endTime":2077.98,"body":"then we're all you know, the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2080.68,"body":"cool kids in the back of the bus"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2080.68,"body":"making fun of the stuff we have"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2080.68,"endTime":2084.79,"body":"to do and then yes, we're all"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2080.68,"endTime":2084.79,"body":"cool, but where's the Bus go?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2084.79,"endTime":2085.75,"body":"Who's driving the bus?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2087.28,"endTime":2089.8,"body":"I was just gonna"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2087.28,"endTime":2089.8,"body":"say that right like and, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2089.8,"endTime":2092.26,"body":"know, I don't need to be the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2089.8,"endTime":2092.26,"body":"cool kid, that's exactly what I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2092.26,"endTime":2095.08,"body":"just gonna say. But someone's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2092.26,"endTime":2095.08,"body":"got to be the person in charge."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2095.08,"endTime":2098.02,"body":"And yeah, odds are you're in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2095.08,"endTime":2098.02,"body":"that role because you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2098.02,"endTime":2098.68,"body":"be in charge,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2098.68,"endTime":2102.07,"body":"Right and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2098.68,"endTime":2102.07,"body":"times, leaders emerging have"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2102.1,"endTime":2105.25,"body":"been, bad trauma bonding with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2102.1,"endTime":2105.25,"body":"people that they're now in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2105.25,"endTime":2107.41,"body":"charge of, and they can't have"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2105.25,"endTime":2107.41,"body":"that same relationship. It's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2107.41,"endTime":2109.9,"body":"just not going to work. You"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2107.41,"endTime":2109.9,"body":"cannot be cynical and actually"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2109.9,"endTime":2112.63,"body":"move anything forward. I've"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2109.9,"endTime":2112.63,"body":"thought about that a lot like,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2112.63,"endTime":2116.38,"body":"could you but maybe are there"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2112.63,"endTime":2116.38,"body":"circumstances and I have yet to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2116.38,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"find a circumstance where a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2116.38,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"person professing cynicism can"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2123.49,"body":"actually lead? And I don't see"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2123.49,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2123.91,"endTime":2127.15,"body":"So I have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2123.91,"endTime":2127.15,"body":"question then. So let's say, I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2127.15,"endTime":2130.09,"body":"going to drop a scenario and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2127.15,"endTime":2130.09,"body":"then lead into the question. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2130.09,"endTime":2133.06,"body":"let's say we're all part of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2130.09,"endTime":2133.06,"body":"same team, you and me, we're all"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2133.06,"endTime":2136.15,"body":"part of the same team. And our"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2133.06,"endTime":2136.15,"body":"boss comes down says good news."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2136.39,"endTime":2140.44,"body":"Kim. You're You're in charge."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2136.39,"endTime":2140.44,"body":"Jim, retired. You're in charge."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2140.92,"endTime":2143.98,"body":"Tomorrow, you start tomorrow. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2140.92,"endTime":2143.98,"body":"for the rest of the day, you and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2143.98,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"I are peers. And tomorrow,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2143.98,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"you're bam, you're the new"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2150.01,"body":"emerging leader. But we've been,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2150.01,"body":"you know, slamming everyone"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2150.04,"endTime":2154.15,"body":"together as peers. How, how can"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2150.04,"endTime":2154.15,"body":"we work with that? That's got to"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2154.15,"endTime":2156.22,"body":"be tough. Would you have any"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2154.15,"endTime":2156.22,"body":"advice for those?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2157.29,"endTime":2159.54,"body":"Yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2157.29,"endTime":2159.54,"body":"might get out of jail free on"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2159.54,"endTime":2165.66,"body":"everything, is to call it out."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2159.54,"endTime":2165.66,"body":"Say, \"Hey, you know, maybe I've"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2165.66,"endTime":2169.29,"body":"been making the assumption with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2165.66,"endTime":2169.29,"body":"my co worker that he's gonna"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2169.29,"endTime":2172.05,"body":"know the score. It's not today"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2169.29,"endTime":2172.05,"body":"that tomorrow, right?\""},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2172.05,"endTime":2173.31,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2172.05,"endTime":2173.31,"body":"It's right away."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2175.68,"endTime":2178.08,"body":"So say, hey, look,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2175.68,"endTime":2178.08,"body":"I forgot what my coworkers name"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2178.29,"endTime":2180.99,"body":"is the gym though. That's the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2178.29,"endTime":2180.99,"body":"other guy who's retired. So Joe."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2181.2,"endTime":2183.9,"body":"Yeah, I think it"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2181.2,"endTime":2183.9,"body":"was Joe, Joe. Joe, Joe. Joe."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2186.15,"endTime":2190.23,"body":"Joe. So hey, guess"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2186.15,"endTime":2190.23,"body":"what, I got some news. So I,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2190.74,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"I've been promoted to be in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2190.74,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"charge of this thing. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.56,"body":"I've really liked working with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.56,"body":"you so far, and I really enjoy a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2199.56,"endTime":2203.07,"body":"relationship. But I you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2199.56,"endTime":2203.07,"body":"that dynamic is gonna change a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2203.07,"endTime":2205.59,"body":"little bit. I don't know exactly"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2203.07,"endTime":2205.59,"body":"how it's gonna change, but it's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2205.59,"endTime":2209.79,"body":"probably gonna change. And I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2205.59,"endTime":2209.79,"body":"really want and I'd really love"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2209.79,"endTime":2210.96,"body":"to be able to have your support."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2211.56,"endTime":2214.44,"body":"I love how you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2211.56,"endTime":2214.44,"body":"said the dynamics gonna change."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2214.5,"endTime":2217.38,"body":"I don't really know how it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2214.5,"endTime":2217.38,"body":"going to change yet. Because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2217.38,"endTime":2220.44,"body":"that that that is the basis of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2217.38,"endTime":2220.44,"body":"all the honesty in there. This"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2220.44,"endTime":2221.58,"body":"is things have to change."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2221.76,"endTime":2223.92,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2221.76,"endTime":2223.92,"body":"exactly. And you don't know how"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2223.92,"endTime":2226.98,"body":"but you want to invite them to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2223.92,"endTime":2226.98,"body":"help change it with you and make"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2226.98,"endTime":2229.86,"body":"it something everybody likes him"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2226.98,"endTime":2229.86,"body":"something that's cool. And not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2229.86,"endTime":2231.99,"body":"you telling him how it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2229.86,"endTime":2231.99,"body":"be? Because you don't know."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2232.5,"endTime":2235.02,"body":"Right? You know, he's gonna deal"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2232.5,"endTime":2235.02,"body":"with this, but you do but but"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2235.02,"endTime":2237.93,"body":"basically, that just that way,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2235.02,"endTime":2237.93,"body":"they can see that you value"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2237.96,"endTime":2242.16,"body":"relationship and you respect"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2237.96,"endTime":2242.16,"body":"them, and invite them into, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2242.16,"endTime":2243.39,"body":"know, play with you in a new"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2242.16,"endTime":2243.39,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2243.69,"endTime":2245.88,"body":"It's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2243.69,"endTime":2245.88,"body":"awkward. As long as that's part"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2245.88,"endTime":2249.51,"body":"of it, that's, it's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2245.88,"endTime":2249.51,"body":"awkward no matter what. But this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2249.51,"endTime":2251.49,"body":"has has a lot to do with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2249.51,"endTime":2251.49,"body":"toxic. Excellent, we were"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2251.49,"endTime":2254.7,"body":"talking about in a ways that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2251.49,"endTime":2254.7,"body":"can help avoid that, or at least"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2254.7,"endTime":2256.98,"body":"manage part of that, would that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2254.7,"endTime":2256.98,"body":"be accurate?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2257.43,"endTime":2259.86,"body":"Absolutely. Because"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2257.43,"endTime":2259.86,"body":"again, What you don't want is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2259.86,"endTime":2262.59,"body":"for like, I have been chosen as"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2259.86,"endTime":2262.59,"body":"leader, and therefore what I say"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2262.59,"endTime":2264.36,"body":"goes, because what I say is,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2262.59,"endTime":2264.36,"body":"right,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2265.14,"endTime":2267.06,"body":"Because I'm such"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2265.14,"endTime":2267.06,"body":"a great man are great."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2267.06,"endTime":2272.28,"body":"Because I have been"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2267.06,"endTime":2272.28,"body":"tapped for leadership, and not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2272.28,"endTime":2272.76,"body":"you! (Kim and Simon laughing)"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2272.76,"endTime":2277.92,"body":"For leadership. Exactly. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2272.76,"endTime":2277.92,"body":"that's what you want, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2277.92,"endTime":2282.36,"body":"and, and, you know, hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2277.92,"endTime":2282.36,"body":"if Joe, as some emotional"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2282.36,"endTime":2287.19,"body":"intelligence will be like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2282.36,"endTime":2287.19,"body":"wow. Oh, wow. Good for you. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2287.19,"endTime":2290.28,"body":"then hopefully, Joe will notice"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2287.19,"endTime":2290.28,"body":"like, Hey, I'm friends with the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2290.28,"endTime":2291.66,"body":"boss, that can't be bad."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2293.13,"endTime":2299.46,"body":"Right? That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2293.13,"endTime":2299.46,"body":"fantastic. For you know, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2299.46,"endTime":2302.79,"body":"sake of this, this scenario,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2299.46,"endTime":2302.79,"body":"what if Joe doesn't have that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2302.79,"endTime":2305.91,"body":"emotional abilities to handle"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2302.79,"endTime":2305.91,"body":"that? What would be some ways"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2305.91,"endTime":2308.07,"body":"you might offer that people"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2305.91,"endTime":2308.07,"body":"could deal with that?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2308.54,"endTime":2310.73,"body":"Yeah, well, it's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2308.54,"endTime":2310.73,"body":"very possible that Joe could be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2310.73,"endTime":2313.79,"body":"like, \"They chose you, for me to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2310.73,"endTime":2313.79,"body":"keep on leaving, this is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2313.79,"endTime":2318.23,"body":"terrible. What do you got?\" It"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2313.79,"endTime":2318.23,"body":"basically after you remember"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2318.23,"endTime":2321.59,"body":"that Joe is making it about"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2318.23,"endTime":2321.59,"body":"himself in a situation like"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2321.59,"endTime":2325.34,"body":"that. So this is one where you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2321.59,"endTime":2325.34,"body":"kind of internally roll your"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2325.34,"endTime":2329.33,"body":"eyes, and you let him speak for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2325.34,"endTime":2329.33,"body":"a minute, and let him process"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2329.33,"endTime":2334.37,"body":"through it. Right? And then say,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2329.33,"endTime":2334.37,"body":"\"Well, this seems to be what's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2334.37,"endTime":2337.04,"body":"happening. Like I said, I don't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2334.37,"endTime":2337.04,"body":"know what's going to happen, but"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2337.04,"endTime":2340.46,"body":"I'm hoping that we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2337.04,"endTime":2340.46,"body":"looking forward to see what we"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2340.46,"endTime":2343.85,"body":"do.\" I tried to invoke"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2340.46,"endTime":2343.85,"body":"curiosity, basically, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2344.03,"endTime":2347.36,"body":"as opposed to the curiosity,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2344.03,"endTime":2347.36,"body":"it's kind of like the opposite"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2347.36,"endTime":2351.47,"body":"of defensiveness. In general,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2347.36,"endTime":2351.47,"body":"when people react badly, it's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2351.53,"endTime":2354.47,"body":"pretty much because they're"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2351.53,"endTime":2354.47,"body":"thinking about what this means"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2354.47,"endTime":2357.8,"body":"for them, which means they stop"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2354.47,"endTime":2357.8,"body":"thinking about you. And I think"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2357.8,"endTime":2360.26,"body":"it's important to remember that,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2357.8,"endTime":2360.26,"body":"that they're really not thinking"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2360.26,"endTime":2363.17,"body":"about you, when they react"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2360.26,"endTime":2363.17,"body":"badly. They're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2363.17,"endTime":2365.99,"body":"them. And it may be related to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2363.17,"endTime":2365.99,"body":"all kinds of things that you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2365.99,"endTime":2368.33,"body":"can't even see at that moment."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2365.99,"endTime":2368.33,"body":"You know, this might be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2368.33,"endTime":2370.91,"body":"something their dad said, when"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2368.33,"endTime":2370.91,"body":"they're eight that is separate,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2370.91,"endTime":2373.88,"body":"you know, setting them off and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2370.91,"endTime":2373.88,"body":"not you. I don't know if you've"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2373.88,"endTime":2378.14,"body":"ever seen the spacing on the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2373.88,"endTime":2378.14,"body":"name and what's the baseball"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2378.14,"endTime":2381.53,"body":"movie with Jonah Hill and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2381.86,"endTime":2382.7,"body":"Moneyball!"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2382.87,"endTime":2389.02,"body":"Moneyball!! There's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2382.87,"endTime":2389.02,"body":"a firing scene in there. That is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2389.11,"endTime":2395.02,"body":"awesome. And so you know, the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2389.11,"endTime":2395.02,"body":"manager and training is being is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2396.25,"endTime":2398.71,"body":"like, I have to find this guy."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2396.25,"endTime":2398.71,"body":"It's gonna be terrible, and I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2398.71,"endTime":2402.94,"body":"was doing it. So the experienced"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2398.71,"endTime":2402.94,"body":"manager is like, Look, you just"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2402.94,"endTime":2407.86,"body":"do it, pull the band aid off."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2402.94,"endTime":2407.86,"body":"And so he goes in there, and he"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2407.86,"endTime":2410.98,"body":"just posts about you being"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2407.86,"endTime":2410.98,"body":"traded. And the guy goes, the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2410.98,"endTime":2414.58,"body":"actors fantastic on this player"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2410.98,"endTime":2414.58,"body":"is being traded he, he can see"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2414.58,"endTime":2419.26,"body":"him being like, really upset,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2414.58,"endTime":2419.26,"body":"and then thinks it over for"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2419.26,"endTime":2423.91,"body":"himself. And then it's like,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2419.26,"endTime":2423.91,"body":"okay, and leaves the room. And I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2423.91,"endTime":2426.52,"body":"find that sometimes beginning"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2423.91,"endTime":2426.52,"body":"leaders say what That's so mean,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2426.52,"endTime":2428.89,"body":"he didn't like help him process"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2426.52,"endTime":2428.89,"body":"or do anything like that. It's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2428.89,"endTime":2431.95,"body":"like, no, that's like your job,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2428.89,"endTime":2431.95,"body":"your job as the manager is to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2432.58,"endTime":2436.42,"body":"not be a jerk about it, but"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2432.58,"endTime":2436.42,"body":"basically say what's gonna"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2436.42,"endTime":2439.78,"body":"happen and let them and then"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2436.42,"endTime":2439.78,"body":"oftentimes just shut up and let"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2439.78,"endTime":2442.18,"body":"them deal with it on their own,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2439.78,"endTime":2442.18,"body":"and they will often come to a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2442.18,"endTime":2445.51,"body":"better thing. And if you try to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2442.18,"endTime":2445.51,"body":"manage their reaction."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2445.72,"endTime":2448.33,"body":"Once you start"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2445.72,"endTime":2448.33,"body":"acknowledging all of their,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2448.33,"endTime":2451.06,"body":"whatever the emotions might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2448.33,"endTime":2451.06,"body":"going on it, it always, always,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2451.06,"endTime":2454.27,"body":"always blows up into this big"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2451.06,"endTime":2454.27,"body":"massive thing. You know, like,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2454.27,"endTime":2456.82,"body":"if Joe has a bad, a bad"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2454.27,"endTime":2456.82,"body":"reaction, like don't worry about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2456.82,"endTime":2459.49,"body":"it buds, I gotcha. And you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2456.82,"endTime":2459.49,"body":"going to give them a fist bump,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2459.58,"endTime":2461.56,"body":"you're basically acknowledging"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2459.58,"endTime":2461.56,"body":"everything that he's just said,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2461.56,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"or thinking about himself. In"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2461.56,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"those that particular situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2464.98,"endTime":2468.46,"body":"And now it's just a mess, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2464.98,"endTime":2468.46,"body":"So and yeah, being the new"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2468.46,"endTime":2471.91,"body":"leader in charge, all that much"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2468.46,"endTime":2471.91,"body":"harder right from the right from"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2471.91,"endTime":2472.39,"body":"the get go."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2472.9,"endTime":2475.18,"body":"Absolutely. So the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2472.9,"endTime":2475.18,"body":"reaction is their reaction, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2475.18,"endTime":2477.91,"body":"it's about them, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2475.18,"endTime":2477.91,"body":"about you. And basically, if you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2477.91,"endTime":2481.39,"body":"can just sort of sit through"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2477.91,"endTime":2481.39,"body":"that small hurricane, like, you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2481.39,"endTime":2484.09,"body":"know, on the baseball team,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2481.39,"endTime":2484.09,"body":"everybody's pretty much so"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2484.09,"endTime":2486.34,"body":"they're not gonna say it out"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2484.09,"endTime":2486.34,"body":"loud, they're just gonna leave."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2486.34,"endTime":2488.53,"body":"And they might in real life,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2486.34,"endTime":2488.53,"body":"they might not do that. And if"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2488.53,"endTime":2491.59,"body":"you're a female person, as a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2488.53,"endTime":2491.59,"body":"leader, people often want to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2491.59,"endTime":2494.53,"body":"tell you things that they might"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2491.59,"endTime":2494.53,"body":"not want to share with the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2499.57,"body":"dude's for example, but your"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2499.57,"body":"your, you know, your, all you"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2499.57,"endTime":2501.97,"body":"can do is do let you let them do"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2499.57,"endTime":2501.97,"body":"what they're doing without"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2501.97,"endTime":2505.57,"body":"feeding into it, or trying to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2501.97,"endTime":2505.57,"body":"minimize it or trying to manage"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2505.57,"endTime":2508.15,"body":"it in any way. And they will"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2505.57,"endTime":2508.15,"body":"eventually come to their own"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2508.15,"endTime":2508.6,"body":"conclusions."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2509.02,"endTime":2510.67,"body":"And this takes"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2509.02,"endTime":2510.67,"body":"us right back to the beginning"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2510.67,"endTime":2512.92,"body":"of what we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2510.67,"endTime":2512.92,"body":"when all these different things"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2512.92,"endTime":2516.82,"body":"are happening. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2512.92,"endTime":2516.82,"body":"realistically, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2516.85,"endTime":2520.33,"body":"the leader is not about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2516.85,"endTime":2520.33,"body":"themselves. It's about, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2520.33,"endTime":2522.82,"body":"know, whatever is going on with"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2520.33,"endTime":2522.82,"body":"the other person when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2522.82,"endTime":2525.82,"body":"talking about sending emails and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2522.82,"endTime":2525.82,"body":"the shame spirals and waiting"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2525.82,"endTime":2528.91,"body":"for those responses. It's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2525.82,"endTime":2528.91,"body":"about us if we're not being"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2531.28,"body":"judged and I think it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2531.28,"body":"important to remember that when"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2531.28,"endTime":2533.59,"body":"we have to have those tough"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2531.28,"endTime":2533.59,"body":"conversations about you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2533.59,"endTime":2536.77,"body":"hey, look, I'm I'm your boss"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2533.59,"endTime":2536.77,"body":"tomorrow. I'm the leader"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2536.77,"endTime":2539.23,"body":"tomorrow. It's still not about"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2536.77,"endTime":2539.23,"body":"me, like you had mentioned."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2539.23,"endTime":2541.57,"body":"That's important. You know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2539.23,"endTime":2541.57,"body":"it's, I think we've taken this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2541.57,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"full circle. with that. I think"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2541.57,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"maybe this might be a good time"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2547.99,"body":"for us to move into the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2547.99,"body":"lightning round. Would that be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2547.99,"endTime":2548.65,"body":"okay with you?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2548.8,"endTime":2550.03,"body":"Lightning round?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2548.8,"endTime":2550.03,"body":"Let's do it!"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2550.42,"endTime":2552.79,"body":"Okay, so folks,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2550.42,"endTime":2552.79,"body":"for those of you who don't know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2553.0,"endTime":2556.33,"body":"I'm hoping a lot of people are"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2553.0,"endTime":2556.33,"body":"listening to this podcast, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2556.33,"endTime":2558.94,"body":"they they're well versed in what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2556.33,"endTime":2558.94,"body":"the leader, the lightning round"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2558.94,"endTime":2562.42,"body":"is. But here's the thing, in"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2558.94,"endTime":2562.42,"body":"case you don't know, all I tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2562.42,"endTime":2564.85,"body":"the guest is that there will be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2562.42,"endTime":2564.85,"body":"five leadership related"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2564.85,"endTime":2566.92,"body":"questions. I don't tell them"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2564.85,"endTime":2566.92,"body":"what the questions are ahead of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2566.92,"endTime":2570.43,"body":"time. And because that is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2566.92,"endTime":2570.43,"body":"personally honestly, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2570.43,"endTime":2573.73,"body":"of funny for me. And if the idea"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2570.43,"endTime":2573.73,"body":"is to put everyone on edge, just"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2573.73,"endTime":2576.55,"body":"a little tiny bit, but I promise"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2573.73,"endTime":2576.55,"body":"they're not they're not crazy"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2576.55,"endTime":2578.29,"body":"questions. Are we ready for"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2576.55,"endTime":2578.29,"body":"this?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2578.68,"endTime":2580.39,"body":"I, why not? Let's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2578.68,"endTime":2580.39,"body":"do this."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2580.51,"endTime":2583.84,"body":"Let's do this."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2580.51,"endTime":2583.84,"body":"Okay, So question number one, as"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2583.84,"endTime":2587.17,"body":"a leader, what do you consider"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2583.84,"endTime":2587.17,"body":"to be your greatest strength?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2588.82,"endTime":2593.47,"body":"I've been told that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2588.82,"endTime":2593.47,"body":"I'm good at telling people the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2593.56,"endTime":2598.24,"body":"hard truth without making them"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2593.56,"endTime":2598.24,"body":"feel unnecessarily bad about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2598.51,"endTime":2601.66,"body":"Question number"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2598.51,"endTime":2601.66,"body":"two, cup half full, or cup half"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2601.66,"endTime":2602.08,"body":"empty?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2602.95,"endTime":2606.79,"body":"Haha, that's a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2602.95,"endTime":2606.79,"body":"tough one, my style comes up"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2606.79,"endTime":2610.06,"body":"consistently defensive"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2606.79,"endTime":2610.06,"body":"pessimists, which means the cup"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2610.06,"endTime":2612.37,"body":"is half empty. So we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2610.06,"endTime":2612.37,"body":"have to do some work to make"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2612.37,"endTime":2615.7,"body":"sure this is full enough. But"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2612.37,"endTime":2615.7,"body":"lately, I've been kind of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2615.7,"endTime":2618.4,"body":"letting go of a lot of data. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2615.7,"endTime":2618.4,"body":"I feel like I'm ready for a cup"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2618.4,"endTime":2618.94,"body":"half full."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2619.27,"endTime":2621.76,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2619.27,"endTime":2621.76,"body":"question. A little quick sidebar"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2621.76,"endTime":2625.24,"body":"was the lightning round. Not so"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2621.76,"endTime":2625.24,"body":"lightning fast. But I love that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2625.24,"endTime":2627.43,"body":"question. It's my favorite of"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2625.24,"endTime":2627.43,"body":"all the five of them, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2627.43,"endTime":2629.17,"body":"it's interesting to see what"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2627.43,"endTime":2629.17,"body":"their reactions are. And it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2629.17,"endTime":2632.5,"body":"very, very rare. Will someone"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2629.17,"endTime":2632.5,"body":"say half empty? half full? And"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2632.5,"endTime":2635.38,"body":"that's it. Right? There's Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2632.5,"endTime":2635.38,"body":"there's it. I love it. I just I"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2635.38,"endTime":2636.37,"body":"love that question."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2636.37,"endTime":2637.12,"body":"That's fun."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2637.39,"endTime":2640.54,"body":"Oh, it's great."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2637.39,"endTime":2640.54,"body":"So question number three. If you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2640.54,"endTime":2644.59,"body":"could ask a leadership advice"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2640.54,"endTime":2644.59,"body":"from any leader alive or dead?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2644.62,"endTime":2647.2,"body":"Who would it be? And what is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2644.62,"endTime":2647.2,"body":"question?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2650.11,"endTime":2660.73,"body":"So many things. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2650.11,"endTime":2660.73,"body":"wow. This is a very tough one."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2660.73,"endTime":2661.84,"body":"Give me one second here."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2662.23,"endTime":2663.43,"body":"No, no problem"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2662.23,"endTime":2663.43,"body":"at all."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2663.82,"endTime":2669.13,"body":"My temptation is"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2663.82,"endTime":2669.13,"body":"that I kind of know it. My"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2669.13,"endTime":2673.48,"body":"temptation is to say I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2669.13,"endTime":2673.48,"body":"take somebody who I think of as"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2673.48,"endTime":2677.83,"body":"not a good model of a leader,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2673.48,"endTime":2677.83,"body":"you know, somebody who is has a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2677.83,"endTime":2682.63,"body":"very competitive command and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2677.83,"endTime":2682.63,"body":"control attitude and find out"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2684.58,"endTime":2687.46,"body":"you know, how what they think"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2684.58,"endTime":2687.46,"body":"they're doing that helps them"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2687.46,"endTime":2690.4,"body":"get away with it for so long. So"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2687.46,"endTime":2690.4,"body":"I think I'd asked I would"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2690.4,"endTime":2696.73,"body":"probably last like Mussolini"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2690.4,"endTime":2696.73,"body":"probably asked them, you know,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2696.76,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"how did you manage to keep this"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2696.76,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"and what do you You're doing"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2700.63,"endTime":2703.21,"body":"that makes people follow you,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2700.63,"endTime":2703.21,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2703.78,"endTime":2707.05,"body":"Yeah. I love"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2703.78,"endTime":2707.05,"body":"that no one has ever taken that"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2707.05,"endTime":2711.43,"body":"approach before. Question number"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2707.05,"endTime":2711.43,"body":"four, in one word, describe your"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2711.43,"endTime":2714.28,"body":"feelings fhe first time you were"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2711.43,"endTime":2714.28,"body":"placed in the role as the"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2714.28,"endTime":2714.73,"body":"leader."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2715.24,"endTime":2718.6,"body":"Ah, terror,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2715.24,"endTime":2718.6,"body":"actually, no, let me try that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2718.6,"endTime":2723.16,"body":"again. First hubris. Of course,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2718.6,"endTime":2723.16,"body":"I'm the leader. And then, and"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2723.16,"endTime":2725.92,"body":"then terror, when I realized"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2723.16,"endTime":2725.92,"body":"that that meant was going to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2725.92,"endTime":2728.74,"body":"mean to disappointing a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2725.92,"endTime":2728.74,"body":"people, and that there was"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2728.74,"endTime":2732.88,"body":"nothing I could do about it. And"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2728.74,"endTime":2732.88,"body":"so I had a real, you know, dark"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2732.88,"endTime":2735.46,"body":"night of the soul of like, do I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2732.88,"endTime":2735.46,"body":"really want to do this Is this"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2735.46,"endTime":2738.16,"body":"what you have to do? And I was"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2735.46,"endTime":2738.16,"body":"like, now this is what I got to"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2738.16,"endTime":2741.37,"body":"stand up for. And it was a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2738.16,"endTime":2741.37,"body":"values based thing is I've got"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2741.37,"endTime":2743.32,"body":"to stand up for them. I'm here"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2741.37,"endTime":2743.32,"body":"to stand up for the values got"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2743.32,"endTime":2747.91,"body":"to stand up for the values got"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2743.32,"endTime":2747.91,"body":"to do it. And and that was that"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2747.91,"endTime":2749.05,"body":"felt like trial by fire?"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2749.5,"endTime":2752.32,"body":"And the final"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2749.5,"endTime":2752.32,"body":"question in one minute, describe"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2752.32,"endTime":2755.38,"body":"what you believe is the most"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2752.32,"endTime":2755.38,"body":"important idea or concept for a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2755.38,"endTime":2758.23,"body":"new leader to consider as they"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2755.38,"endTime":2758.23,"body":"take on their role."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2758.71,"endTime":2761.35,"body":"So I want to go"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2758.71,"endTime":2761.35,"body":"macro here. So generally, in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2761.35,"endTime":2764.29,"body":"kind of the leader development"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2761.35,"endTime":2764.29,"body":"journey, in the beginning, it's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2764.29,"endTime":2768.07,"body":"Can I do it? in the middle? It's"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2764.29,"endTime":2768.07,"body":"kind of like, I mean, I can, but"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2768.07,"endTime":2771.7,"body":"do I have to? And where, where"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2768.07,"endTime":2771.7,"body":"do I have to be here? And who"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2771.7,"endTime":2775.18,"body":"are my people? And then as the"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2771.7,"endTime":2775.18,"body":"most the most experienced"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2775.18,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"leaders, okay, here's my people,"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2775.18,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"what do I want to do for them?"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2777.91,"endTime":2780.82,"body":"What do I how do I want to get"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2777.91,"endTime":2780.82,"body":"back? What's my legacy? And so I"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2780.82,"endTime":2784.69,"body":"think that I would want new"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2780.82,"endTime":2784.69,"body":"leaders to know that they don't"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2784.69,"endTime":2788.53,"body":"have to do all of that all at"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2784.69,"endTime":2788.53,"body":"once. That there is a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2793.06,"body":"progression and that there are"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2793.06,"body":"some things. There are some"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2793.06,"endTime":2795.49,"body":"advices gonna stick with you in"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2793.06,"endTime":2795.49,"body":"the stage you're at and a"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2795.49,"endTime":2797.62,"body":"certain end later, and you're"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2795.49,"endTime":2797.62,"body":"going to be somewhere else with"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2797.62,"endTime":2802.81,"body":"it. So you know, allow, allow"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2797.62,"endTime":2802.81,"body":"yourself to naturally evolve as"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2802.81,"endTime":2805.96,"body":"a leader and not try to be"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2802.81,"endTime":2805.96,"body":"perfect out of the gate."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2806.29,"endTime":2807.94,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2806.29,"endTime":2807.94,"body":"That's the lightning round. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2807.97,"endTime":2811.48,"body":"not so bad"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2808.75,"endTime":2811.48,"body":"Good question. That"},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2808.75,"endTime":2811.48,"body":"was hard. That was fun."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2811.69,"endTime":2813.58,"body":"Did you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2811.69,"endTime":2813.58,"body":"anything else you want to pass"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2817.51,"body":"on to anyone while we're still"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2817.51,"body":"chatting? My week, my website is"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2817.54,"endTime":2821.95,"body":"www.kimperkins.com. You can find"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2817.54,"endTime":2821.95,"body":"my book Winner Take None. I will"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2821.95,"endTime":2824.92,"body":"be sure to have your website an"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2821.95,"endTime":2824.92,"body":"a link to your book inside"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2824.92,"endTime":2828.04,"body":"he show notes. And thank you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2824.92,"endTime":2828.04,"body":"so much for all of your time"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2828.04,"endTime":2830.53,"body":"or this today. I know for a f"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2828.04,"endTime":2830.53,"body":"ct that anyone listening"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2830.53,"endTime":2833.2,"body":"as learned a lot some valuab"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2830.53,"endTime":2833.2,"body":"e, useful tools to help m"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2833.2,"endTime":2837.13,"body":"ve forward."},{"speaker":"Kim Perkins","startTime":2834.13,"endTime":2836.68,"body":"My pleasure, great conversation."},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2836.68,"endTime":2839.014,"body":"Well, that's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2836.68,"endTime":2839.014,"body":"wrap from the front. In this"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2839.068,"endTime":2842.0,"body":"episode, we learned that our"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2839.068,"endTime":2842.0,"body":"competitive energy can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2842.054,"endTime":2844.985,"body":"channeled in positive ways,"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2842.054,"endTime":2844.985,"body":"giving rise to even higher"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2845.04,"endTime":2847.971,"body":"levels of personal and"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2845.04,"endTime":2847.971,"body":"professional excellence. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2848.025,"endTime":2850.36,"body":"for tuning in, and we'll see you"},{"speaker":"Simon Kardynal","startTime":2848.025,"endTime":2850.36,"body":"next time."},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2851.35,"endTime":2854.5,"body":"Never miss an"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2851.35,"endTime":2854.5,"body":"episode by following us on all"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2854.5,"endTime":2858.1,"body":"of your favorite feeds. While"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2854.5,"endTime":2858.1,"body":"you're there, please consider"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2858.1,"endTime":2861.37,"body":"leaving an episode review and"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2858.1,"endTime":2861.37,"body":"let us know what topics you"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2865.72,"body":"would like to hear about. Be"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2865.72,"body":"sure to join us next week with"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2865.72,"endTime":2869.32,"body":"your host Simon Kardynal for"},{"speaker":"The Narrator","startTime":2865.72,"endTime":2869.32,"body":"another episode of Trench"},{"speaker":"Leadership","startTime":2869.32,"endTime":2874.24,"body":"APodcast From the"},{"speaker":"Leadership","startTime":2869.32,"endTime":2874.24,"body":"ront, produced by iglen studios,"},{"speaker":"Leadership","startTime":2874.36,"endTime":3593.52,"body":"music provided by Ashamaluev M"},{"speaker":"Leadership","startTime":2874.36,"endTime":3593.52,"body":"sic."}]}