James Laughlin 00:00

Welcome to lead on purpose. I'm James Laughlin, former seven-time world champion, musician, and night executive coach to global leaders and high performers. In every episode, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today on investing yourself. Enjoy the show

James Laughlin 00:39

How much time do you invest in your brain? Well, look, our brain dictates so many things. It's our largest asset. We've got to look after it, right? But often we're putting things on our skin and we're doing all these other things that care for our bodies, but our brain dictates so much. I came across a product a week ago called Flow State and it's made such a difference. And look, they offer functional mushrooms that sharpen cognition, they really boost energy, and definitely strengthen immunity. And they actually use one of the key ingredients, it’s lion's mane. Right? So, the lion's mane is popular among really peak-performing athletes and those wanting an edge. It's known as the brain mushroom. And it's currently being studied extensively for its nerve growth factor potential as a means to ease the symptoms of Alzheimer's and for treating inflammation in the body. Look, the thing I love about these products, they don't taste like mushrooms, you can mix them in with your tea. They're a great replacement for coffee, but I actually love the P.M. Mushroom Blend, the evening one. It helps me sleep. And to know that my brain is getting extra nutrients is just the next level. The one thing that's really important for me is what's in there. So, they've tested heavily at Hill laboratories for heavy metals, pesticide residue, and microbial, and also Massey University for active compounds. So, I urge you, if you love your brain, and want to go the extra mile to nurture it, head on over to flowstate.nz and you can use the coupon code lead on purpose to get 15% off.

James Laughlin

I don't know about you, but sometimes I get home. And I think what I am eating tonight is the last thing I want to do. I don't know what to cook, I don't know what's in the cupboard or in the fridge. And it often leads to poor choices like ordering some takeaway. So recently, Carolyn and I started eating green dinner table, and it's absolutely amazing. After a long day, when I'm knackered, I know that when I get home, there's going to be a great recipe and all the ingredients I need right there in the fridge. And look, I absolutely love it. I've been doing it for several months. And it means I don't have to think at the end of the day. And I just know that I'm going to get good, nutritious, wholesome food. And look, it's plant-based, which has so many benefits. So, if you're a meat eater, perhaps you might want to start on maybe just three, a three-day plan. So, you've got three evening meals for you and your partner or you and your family depending on what option you want to go for. But the food is delicious. It's so nutritious, and it means we don't need to think. And as leaders of families, teams, and organizations, what we put in our bodies is just so crucially important, so I urge you to go and check it out and I want to give you 20% off your first order. So, you can go to the green dinner table.co dot N Zed and use the coupon code purpose.

James Laughlin 03:51

Sean Fahey is the founder and CEO of VidCruiter, one of the fastest-growing remote recruitment platforms in the world. Helping companies attract and hire better talent. 75,000 recruiters use VidCruiter to modernize their hiring and their clients include organizations like Samsung, United Nations, Lionsgate, Chicago Bears, and US foods. Sean has been in the HR industry for over 10 years and he started VidCruiter after realizing how slow and inefficient traditional hiring processes were. In today's show, we talk about how he thinks differently, how he identifies problems, and then gets to the root of those problems and the root of that problem, and then how he identifies what solutions might work. It's an incredible entrepreneurial mindset that he possesses. So, I know you're going to enjoy the show. So, sit back and enjoy

James Laughlin 05:00

Sean, a massive welcome to the Lead on Purpose Podcast.

Sean Fahey 05:04

Thank you, James, thanks for having me today, I really appreciate it.

James Laughlin 05:06

Well, it's an absolute pleasure, I was just really drawn to your product, and your service, and really inspired by what you do particularly post COVID In these difficult times for companies and organizations when they're trying to find top talent. So, before we get into what VidCruiter is all about, I really want to ask you about your thought processes. So, first of all, what do you think about leadership? What's your definition of leadership?

Sean Fahey 05:33

My definition of leadership would be to lead by example. So, I'm a big fan of leading by example and sort of setting a path and atoning for whatever it is I'm doing. And that tends to just gravitate people who want to follow in those kinds in that kind of path, I find that that's the best way to that's my definition of leadership basically.

James Laughlin 05:57

Fantastic. And at VidCruiter, as the leader and the Founder, how do you do that on a day-to-day basis on a weekly basis?

Sean Fahey 06:07

Just show up and work as hard as I can and get as many things done as I can to move the needle so to speak with whoever I'm working with whatever we're doing, whatever initiative we're working on, is that I try to take action at every meeting. So, if there's a purpose to that meeting, there has to be an outcome to that meeting, and an action that is done at the end and sort of maybe an action, a series of action items. And so doing that all day long, in every meeting, and every initiative moves the organization forward faster. And that's sort of one of my goals of sort of leadership, in my day-to-day abilities.

James Laughlin 06:51

It's so important. You know, we're looking at so many companies where leaders are busy being busy, as opposed to saying, hey, we're outcome-driven, each meeting has got a purpose and an outcome at the end of it. To me, that's a game changer.

Sean Fahey 07:03

Yeah, just that simple concept to say, okay, every single meeting I'm going to go into because I do meetings all day, is to make sure that there's an outcome that's derived from that conversation. And if not, then we stop the meeting, or we continue the meeting until we find an outcome. Yeah, you know, and if we can't, then maybe that's too complicated to decide on the spot, and we need more people's input. But you know, to move that forward is sort of the goal.

James Laughlin 07:30

Great, and in terms of how you think so I imagine you have the ability to see a problem and go, Okay, I know how to figure out a solution. If it takes me a month, a year, or a decade, I'm going to figure out a solution to this problem. So, when you're looking around you in your world, whether it's your personal life or your professional life, and you see a problem, what's the first thing that comes to mind for you?

Sean Fahey 07:54

The first thing is getting really attuned to seeing problems. So how do you spot those problems? And one of the things that I find that's the easiest to spot problems is flow. So that happens in a lot of different types of sports and analogies or anything else. As soon as you're not in flow, things are not feeling good, you don't have a comfortable grasp of the situation, there seems to be something wrong, it's, there's just not a proper flow of how things should run according to you know, proper business or just things moving forward properly, then there's a problem that needs to be fixed. So that's the first thing is to identify those problems. You know, whatever that problem may be, then the trigger in the flow or the fact that the flow is not pulling properly is just step one. Step two is once you determine that, that is a problem or issue, what are the possible outcomes like I said before outcomes that you would like to solve that possible problem, and what is the root cause of creating that problem? And so, I would just start looking at the different options and maybe write them down or start thinking of them through my mind and then determine, Okay, which outcome would be the best to fix this problem So, it wouldn't have occurred in the first place. In that kind of sort of problem-solving, thinking of, you know, some people call it system thinking where you look at the system as a whole, not just that problem, specifically, what caused it? What caused that? Where's that coming from? It's sort of where I try to apply my thinking when I'm looking at problems that are, you know, whether it's in my day-to-day or long-term problems to sort of solution for the long term. That's sort of the case in which I'm trying to solve it. And so, identifying problems is sort of half the battle, not just fixing them. Because it's somewhat easier to fix a problem when it's in your face. It's hard to fix a problem that you don't notice. And so, you have to get really in tune with noticing problems that are occurring. That I think is the first step and getting really good at that first, and then choosing which one you want to fix and how you want to fix it. comes easier as you start noticing the different problems.

James Laughlin 10:02

And for the person who's really struggling to identify problems and just almost blank stares, what can they do to get out of that state and start to become more aware of potential problems around them?

Sean Fahey 10:15

Listening, listening to people listening to conversations, you know, listening to cues, and starting to pick up on those cues. So, if you're not used to that, and it is a skill that you have to develop, I agree, it's to work on something simple, where you can where it's very easy to spot a problem. And you'll get this sort of feeling or tingling or idea or feeling. And that's, that's your cue and sort of becoming acute to this is happening, this is my reaction when this happens. I need to spot and look for this reaction. And you're right, it is not that easy to develop that skill set. However, you start with bigger problems that are more obvious. And you know, your house is on fire, or there's a problem, I can see it, I've gotten this feeling okay, well, then there's a leak in my toilet. And there's a different kind of problem, right? But that feeling is so minute in business, sometimes you're just talking to an employee, and there, they don't really want to tell you problems often because they're sort of shy, or they don't want to. So, you have to listen within the context and understand what they're really trying to tell you. And get acute to that sort of problem-finding skill set to then get really good at problem solutions for those.

James Laughlin 11:30

Really powerful stuff. Thanks for sharing that. And I think the level that you do that is quite incredible in terms of what you've created with VidCruiter, and I look back and go, Okay, well, you've done some reps, anybody that's excellent at anything, whether it's a world champion athlete, whether it's a CEO of a billion-dollar company, they've put in a ton of reps. So, when you look back on your life, where did some of those reps start to happen? Maybe earlier in life when you were spotting problems coming up with identifying and coming up with solutions? 

Sean Fahey 12:01

Yeah, I mean, I think the first time is when I was maybe like 12 or 13 years old, and I wanted to buy a Super Nintendo, and my parents wouldn't let me have one because I was, I had the original Nintendo and was playing it too much. So, there was this problem I wanted to play video games, and I couldn't get the solution through traditional methods. So, I had to find another way to do that. And I ended up winning and raising more money when I was 12 or 13 years old for our school through a walkathon and ended up winning the Super Nintendo, right? So, it was just sort of out of necessity at that stage. But it basically comes down to, you know, honing the skill of finding problems, and then learning to let the process of fixing problems and finding them, you know, that would be the other layer of what I would say that you would need to do is, when it becomes a game, to find these problems, you're going to start getting good at it, and maybe do it with your kids on something simple, but just make it a game or something of a process, you know, you walk into a restaurant, let's look at what's wrong with this business as we have dinner here. Not that what's wrong, but what could be improved. And they know the waiter could have said this, oh, the hostess could have done this, oh, the, you know, they could have done that. Okay, and then you start to sort of spot those when you're walking into your everyday life. And then it becomes easier to see those as you sort of run your own business. Or even if you're an athlete, if you're running plays, or whatever it is that you're doing, you'll notice that it just doesn't flow properly. This could have been better, what is missing to do that extra level? And I used to do that a lot when I used to go to retail organizations and say, Okay, how could that have been a better experience for me? What problems that I see that that business had, and you get into that mindset. And then it's much easier for you to do that all the time, it just becomes second nature.

James Laughlin 13:47

What I love about that, is that it's just that whole idea. So, let's take something that's computer oriented. So, I've got a friend who loves building funnels, who loves using Zapier and all these things, and I just get like, frustrated, I get overwhelmed. I'm like, that's not my thing. I want to speak and communicate. I don't want to do all that stuff. So, I have this attachment or frustration attached to that stuff. Whereas he's like, oh, my God, this is the greatest challenge, the greatest opportunity to overcome this challenge. And it sounds like you've got a similar take on when you look at a problem. It's like attaching joy to figuring out the problem rather than frustration.

Sean Fahey 14:26

Exactly. And that also was skill that I had to develop was developing a skill to enjoy the process of fixing problems and enjoy the process of finding them and making them as a game. And then it no longer becomes, you know, annoying or not a good experience for you just you turn it around and make it fun, right? And so, whether it's just a small simple thing is when you walk into a restaurant or store instead of looking at it from that point of view.

James Laughlin 14:54

Well, I want to take this in kind of real-time. So, VidCruiter is the solution to a problem. So, I want to step back and I'd love to know, what was the problem you identified at the start? And you're like, oh, I need to start exploring that.

Sean Fahey 15:09

So that's a great question. And so, the problem that was I was working for an insurance company in the Greater Toronto area at the time. And they were explaining to me their goal and the vision of this organization, and I was a new employee at the time there, and I just started. And they told me that they wanted to hire 200 insurance agents across the country as fast as possible. But their goal was like a five-year plan. And I went home, and I said, Okay, well, they want to hire 200 People in five years. What if we could do that in 30 days? What if we could turn around this idea of this sort of goal that they had, and really turn around its head and say, How can we hire 200 People in 30 days, and I started doing the math of how many resumes you'd have to look at, like 10,000, or 20,000, or 50,000, and then phone screens, and then interviews and then checking references and maybe background checks. And, you know, the process of bringing everyone in the office to do the interview with them, because that wasn't video conferencing at that time. And, you know, how would you go about all these different steps and stages, I said, we would if only I had a solution that would automate most of those steps in stages in the recruitment process. And I could just sit in my office and the finalists would walk in. That's what I would like to have. And so that's where the idea from VidCruiter came from. Shortly thereafter, I quit my job and started an intruder. But the idea to solve that problem was to solve automated hiring. And at the time, I realized that that wasn't a marketable product. So, what we ended up doing is building six different products that automate different stages of the recruitment cycle. So, we have one for referees, we automate the process of capturing referees, then we have one to automate skilled testing. So, we have one to automate interviewing and scheduling and filtering so and then what we've ended up doing is selling each individual product as a separate product for organizations depending on which problem, they need to solve in their recruitment cycle. Because not everyone has the same product problem. And no one really wants to automate recruiting, they always want to know that's, that's sort of that was the initial idea. But we're fixing different steps and stages of that recruitment cycle, then you can mix and match those products together for whichever one you need. But the idea was simply asking me, how would you automate? Or how would you automate the recruiting process? And I just sort of put these pieces together and started VidCruiter, which our core product is video interviewing. It's an asynchronous or On Demand video interview technology, where candidates will record themselves at home on their own time. And then you'll watch that video interview on your own time to determine if that's someone you actually want to talk to.

James Laughlin 17:59

Love it. And before we unpack that a bit more, that step to me, that's the big leap where you were working for the organization, you had this amazing idea. And you're like, done, I'm heading over here, and I'm going to do my own thing. What gives you enough confidence and self-belief to make that big leap?

Sean Fahey 18:18

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, I had been an entrepreneur for 10 years before that, worked for them for two, or three months, and then continued my entrepreneur journey. So, it was not a big leap for me at the time. But the first big leap that I did, you know, we go back 10 years before that, that would have been a series of I know, you were asking this at the beginning, sort of reprogramming my thought process on what it is to be an entrepreneur and own your own business and how to how to really get into that phase? I think that's what kind of what you're asking. So, the first one was to read a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which was, you know, the one that really gave me the concept of owning a business. And after that, I started some small businesses. And one of the best things that I did, which is kind of funny looking back, was I listened to Eminem a lot, to certain key songs that he had about the struggle that you would go through to sort of help reprogram my thoughts around success and how I needed to sort of visualize myself attaining these goals and becoming an entrepreneur and going through that challenge. And it was very similar to the eight-mile song and those kinds of songs that he listened to. And just listening to that on repeat would help me develop sort of that mindset that willpower to overcome the sort of negative self-talk that comes with being an entrepreneur that maybe restricts you from getting to that next level.

James Laughlin 19:46

What you're saying is, it just rings so many. When I’m someone who's an Olympic champion or say an All-Blacks rugby captain. One thing that you've just said that they also say, is the power of visualizing the desired outcome, getting that mental image, and using mental imagery to help you move towards it. And I always think, you know, vision precedes victory. You know, when you're heading towards victory, you need to have a clear sign of what that looks like. And I love that you're very clear that you use that model to get there. Now entrepreneur, so, let's talk about it, you had like a little moment, a little blink, where you went and worked for someone else. So, for the person that is thinking of becoming an entrepreneur, and is working for someone else, right now, what's the difference?

Sean Fahey 20:33

It's night and day. That, I mean, I've been a career entrepreneur my whole life, since I was, you know, graduated from university, I sort of started with a business and I created the business while I was at school. If someone wants to be a career entrepreneur, I think the first thing that you need to master is that vision. And the same way you have to master not just the vision, but the negative feedback loop that you have in your mind or within your mind the same voice that tells you, you shouldn't do that extra crunch at the gym. That's the same voice that you need to master to become an entrepreneur. And so, if you're an athlete, and you master that voice before, it's easier to go into entrepreneurship, because you conquered that part of your mind. And so, I often recommend people that who want to be entrepreneurs to look at, how can you get over that initial hump of self-doubt, that is the hardest step to take. And also use your willpower to your advantage, and have that as a muscle that you develop, you need to develop that kind of thinking the same way that you develop your bicep at the gym, it's developed as a muscle that you continuously push and retract and push and push and push. So that you are not the reason that your business doesn't succeed. And develop very good habits in this problem solving, sort of secondary aspect I was telling you about before and problem spotting, to then be able to move forward. And if you can do that in a business that has good potential and is a marketable product, and you're driven to accomplish that goal, then nothing will stop you. You’ll accomplish whatever goal it is that you set out to achieve.

James Laughlin 22:25

Great advice. And I want to talk a little bit about where things are right now. So, post-COVID, certainly here in Australia, New Zealand and I know in the UK as well. There's a big struggle to find top talent and recruit top talent. So, from your experience, how can we do that? What are your strategies to attract top talent?

Sean Fahey 22:47

That's a good question. Yeah. So being in the talent business, we see all different approaches from all sorts of different organizations. I think the first approach to attracting top talent is really putting your best foot forward and showcasing what makes your organization great. Why do people come to work for you in the first place? Not that many organizations do that. And that starts on your career page. And so, when you're your biggest career pages, sort of your biggest billboard for talent? Do you have testimonials from current staff? Does it say why working for you is a great idea? What is your vision for that organization, the culture of the future, you know, what makes it fun to work there and try to hit as many different sorts of touch points that people are looking for within the organization? Because you can't just compete on salary, everyone has a sort of salary bracket for their industry, you have to stand out from that. And that starts on the Career page. And one thing that a lot of people don't do is add videos, add videos, testimonials of different types of people within the organization who've been there for five to 10 years telling their story. That would be the first thing that I would recommend to anyone who is looking to enhance their brand. And their brand experience for candidates applying to them steps one. Step two would be to automate as many different stages as possible of the recruitment process that don't bring value, and tends to drag on for candidates. We have some clients in the retail sector, a lot of them in Australia, you can apply for a job and get hired within 24 hours. And so how can you compete against that if you're another retailer and it takes four weeks to give a job offer? Do these candidates need a job today? You know, so they're looking to get hired now. And so, if you can meet them where their goals are, and their needs are for the type of role that you're hiring for, give them a job and 24 hours that should be your challenge. And so, we do that with Monroe footwear group in Australia actually. So, you know, these are examples of How we can meet the candidates where their needs are to give them what they're looking for in the roles that they're looking to fix and hire.

James Laughlin 25:12

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James Laughlin 26:24

Oscar de la Renta put it perfectly. Fashion is about dressing according to what's fashionable. Style is more about being yourself. And that's one thing I always try to do is try to be myself whether I'm interviewing a former head of state, hanging with my family on the weekend, or working with some of my incredible clients. I try to always just be myself as much as possible. And part of that is dressing accordingly. But every now and then, a special occasion will call for some special fashion and I am by no means an expert on fashion. And that's why I'm delighted to partner with Munss. Munss is back and it's better than ever. Located in the beautiful tannery Emporium on Garland's Road in Christchurch. It offers a huge range for men with suits for hire and sale, ties, jeans, waistcoats, hats, sunglasses and more. So, for all of your mandatory needs, head along and check out at munss.co.nz 

James Laughlin 27:30

That's powerful. And in terms of the costs around poor hiring decisions, what are those costs, if people are not making good hiring decisions and have clunky ways of hiring? What are the costs associated with that, in your opinion,

Sean Fahey 27:43

Every organization has a different cost structure around what it costs to hire someone, and you know, retail versus different types of executives, and so on and so forth. Those numbers are all over the map for all sorts of different companies, our goal is to reduce that by 50%, 60%, to 75%. And also, the time to hire or which is a little bit more important than the cost, the cost structure is not always easy to reduce or change because, you know, that's sort of your team's cost. And that's the team that you have in place. But filling that time to hire has a much higher ROI. So, if you have, you know, a need to get 20, 30, 40 people on your team all of a sudden, then how much is it costing you not having those people in the organization? That is probably a bigger cost than the cost to hire them. So that's really when you have to look at the cost structure, is what is it costing you not having that staff on board? And that is where you know, adequate, the real dollars, not just the cost of hiring and reducing that by 20, 30 40%. But if I have now these 15 or 20, new engineers, how much more money is the business going to make? And that's the way to look at that sort of equation in my opinion.

James Laughlin 28:56

Yeah, it kind of interrupts that pattern of thinking around just the fixed costs around recruitment and looks at that potential lost opportunity by not having the staff on board. 

Sean Fahey 29:05

You got it. Exactly. And that's really the cost. It's looking at it from the system's point of view. It's not just what this cost me and I'm going to make this a little bit faster. It's not having that person hired. But you know, by reducing the time that we have some clients, a lot of government clients, we reduce their time to hire a person from 200 days to 40 days. We do that with a lot of governments in Australia and all across Canada, all around the world, that you know, that time to fill that role, whether it's private sector or government doesn't matter who it is, is dramatic in terms of the upside and ROI once that person can start contributing to your organization.

James Laughlin 29:43

That's huge. And I hope that the leader that's listening to this right now is taking that on board. And something I wanted to ask you is this just around interviewing processes? So, during an interview process, we're human and we naturally have different biases programmed in. So how can we remove bias from the interviewing process?

Sean Fahey 30:05

There are a few different ways that we suggest to our clients to remove biases from their interview process. The first one is removed, you know, the human from the interview process, if possible, in the sense that with an asynchronous video interview, there's no one human asking the questions directly, it would be a video of someone asking the question. So, you record yourself asking the question, and the candidate records themselves asking the question. The reason that's a great process is that what happens is that every single candidate is asked the same question, interviewed the same way, given the same amount of time to think about their answer, given the same amount of time to answer their question, and the same difficulty level. And so, all of a sudden, every interview is identical. So, we didn't ask, you know, you're from Auckland, or you're from this place, or you like the All Blacks, I like the All Blacks, like, let's, let's not, you can't have that kind of conversation anymore, right? When it's sort of automated in this way, then what we do is we give the videos to be watched by maybe more than one manager. And so, I will send these videos that are recorded to two or three people. And they will all watch the interview in their own time. So, there won't be a bias during the sort of recap or debate after the interview, and determine using a structured interview format, which I'll explain here in a second. But using a competency-by-guide interview format, what are the criteria we're looking for? And how did that candidate do against those criteria that I'm looking to evaluate in terms of what should be a good answer for this kind of interview question? And that's the kind of thing that we recommend. So, everyone's treated identically, they're evaluated by humans, not robots because that can be, you know, discriminatory on its own. And the evaluation methodology that is used is the best practice to ensure that no biases creep into the process. And that sort of will help eliminate biases because nothing can be created when everyone's treated identically. And then multiple people with different backgrounds or different sort of demographics can evaluate the candidates, and then give they’re on a like, unbiased opinion, which means like, no other person can be in a panel when there's a debrief, and say, well, I really liked this person, because, you know, secretly, they're my cousin. So, I'm going to push everyone to hire them. When everyone's evaluating their own time independently, that can't happen as well. And so, the process of using our tools helps reduce bias. And that's one of the main value propositions that we have. Then when you do meet with someone in a video conference or whatever type of format that you're meeting with them. You then also add in that structured interview layer, so that there are competency guides and evaluation guides built into how to look for a good answer for that candidate’s response. So, what that means is, when you do an interview, you're listening to an answer. You might do an interview once a year as a hiring manager. How do you know what is a good answer? You might have a gut feeling about what they said. And what they're looking for. What our most sophisticated clients do is that when that candidate walks in the door, you have your interview questions, and you have a grid of what a good answer is specific to that interview question. In customer support, I would say did they say that they followed up with the client after? Did they go and figure out why that client complained in the first place and fix that problem for them? Did they set up you know other things? So, it kind of guides you into what to look for in a good answer from a response to that specific candidate. So, the hiring manager who interviews once a year has something to base their decision on instead of just gut feeling, structuring that process and delivering that mechanism. So, delivering the interview guide to every manager for every interview at every single time, whether it's in person in a video conference over the phone, or however they're conducting that final interview, after they've sort of gone through the initial rigor is then the next level to ensuring the biases are removed from the interview process. So that's a lot of information I just share. We sell interview compliance, it's one of the things that we do to large organizations for every interview like that, delivering that to everyone everywhere to make sure everyone's compliant to make sure there are no biases, but that humans are still making the decisions. That's really what VidCruiter’s power is.

James Laughlin 34:40

That's really incredible. And do you still see like, there's that element of like the human element at the end of the process, whereas you say, it's not AI assessing the responses? It's a human so there's still some degree, of a gut feeling of is that person telling me what I want to hear versus Oh, that sounds authentic. So, you still think There's room in the VidCruiter process, like, hey, we still have the human aspect.

Sean Fahey 35:06

100%. We didn't have AI in our product at this time. Because in every study and research we've done, which we've done multiple and every, there's discrimination leaking into that decision-making process at this time. It could be from your accent, or it could be from, you know, a way that you say a certain word or a way that you explain a certain situation can be perceived in different cultures, different ways. So, you know, we say reference, and you say, referee, right, but we're talking about your previous employer, well, maybe the AI doesn't realize that those are the same work, you know, and we see all sorts of cases of that. So yeah, at this time, humans still need to make the final judgment call. But the difference with what we're talking about in a structured interview is, your ratings throughout the structured interview will guide you into this is the best person, and these are the second, third and fourth. Now, you might say, well, my rating during that time wasn't accurate and after I review the other person, I need to calibrate my scores. But you have a data point to make a decision, sort of a comparative decision. I've got five candidates, they have 80, 90, you know, 100%, score, etc., right? But I still want to hire 90%. And here's why. But at least you can justify that you have data to back it up. And strangely enough, or funny enough, all governments follow this interview process to protect themselves from discrimination because they realize it's the best practice, it's the easiest way for compliance, and it's the hardest way to prove that you didn't, that you had a bias. The private sector hasn't really, you know, jumped on as much because it's typically super expensive and time-consuming to deliver this kind of interview method, you have to meet in panels, you have to meet in person, everyone's taking notes, you have to you know, it's super expensive. So, we just flipped that whole model and delivered it to everyone, every time every place, extremely cost-effectively without the burdens of all the previous sort of cost structure associated with structured interviews in the past. That's a little bit of how we did that. 

James Laughlin 37:12

Yeah, you really flipped it, I love it. It's interesting, it reminds me so of my past time as a drummer. So, we'd be drumming at a world championship event, you'd have four adjudicators. And so, let's say there are 20 to 30 people in a band. And you're playing about seven and a half to 8000. notes in a seven-minute period, like a lot, a lot of detail going on there. And the judges are assessing tempo, tonality, the variation of dynamics, the ensemble, and all these different things. Now, in the UK, where it was founded, there's a certain system for each judge, but it's very subjective. Like, oh, yeah, and I liked that tune you selected, I liked the dynamic range you selected, I liked the difficulty I didn't like that. Canada came out as sort of a PPBS CIO of Ontario, actually, they came out with this different system. And it was very much what you just described, it was quite incredible and give a judge the opportunity to go, okay, the introduction, the first 30 seconds, you know, good, bad, indifferent, then the pickup from there, their tonality, and was checkboxes. Now, a lot of people worldwide are like this, this is not, we shouldn't be doing that. But actually, when you're judging 25, pipe bands, within a two-hour period, and each of them is playing seven halves to 8000 strokes in a short period of time, having that system to go, oh, there's my top three, there's, you know, four to 10, there's 10 to 20. It's such a great system. So, what I'm hearing is you taking a very similar but more detailed approach, a very similar model, I'm bringing that to the recruitment experience.

Sean Fahey 38:50

You got it. That's the exact analogy for the exact same of, you know, word for word. It's structuring the process by which you make your decisions. Yeah. And by doing so you will make a better decision. Now, your guide at the end may not agree with what you've decided, however, now you have to justify why your own scores are not the reason for you know, and if you add multiple panelists, like multiple judges, in your case, it eventually will get to a consensus or much closer to a consensus. So, it's much easier to get to a decision-making process. And our goal as an organization is that every interview at every stage follows the same methodology that you've just described for every interview,

James Laughlin 39:36

It’s the same methodology. We had worked at a private school for a number of years, and we had scholarships given out quite substantial scholarships for the entire, high school experience for this private school. And each candidate would come in and there'll be a panel of three assessors, and there'll be six pages with checkboxes in terms of how they performed in this area, you know, on all the different possibilities within that, and it was just incredibly helpful. So, at the end, when you make an 80 to $200,000 decision for this young, 10-year-old family, you're like, we feel good that we were thorough, we have data points that we can go back and reflect on if anybody ever challenges this. So, I think what you're doing from a recruitment standpoint is absolutely needed.

Sean Fahey 40:22

We actually do that for admissions as well. We have a substantial number of clients, who use us for video, and admissions and admissions make process decisions as well, for universities. 

James Laughlin 40:31

It’s fantastic. So, for the person that's listening right now going, hey, I want to check this site, like what's VidCruiter all about? What's the easiest way for them to actually give it a go?

Sean Fahey 40:40

Perfect. So, we have a website, VidCruiter.com, you could see a couple of videos, we actually got one produced in Sydney, and that's on our homepage. And we have staff in Australia as well, as well as in Canada and all around the world, actually. And they can request a demo that would put them in touch with one of our people from our sales team. And they would get a half an hour or one-hour presentation of how our tools work. And we generally try to customize our presentation to that exact client's needs. So, it's not like a cookie cutter just like oh, I just want to look at, you know, a quick two-minute video we will drill into what is your need. What is your process? Where are your bottlenecks and we'll do that problem-solving experience that I was just describing with you, in terms of looking at your HR processes, from an operations point of view, basically, sort of, you know, the way that we do it, and then suggest this tool at this stage for this process will accelerate your recruiting by, you know, 70% on this one product? And if you multiply those times, you know, 10, 100, 1000 requisitions, that you're filling, you're changing dramatically the way in which that organization recruits its staff, while at the same time increasing the quality. One of the initial problems that I had with this entire idea was that quality and speed were opposites. You couldn't get a win-win. If you need to hire 200 people, you can do that in one day. Everyone that applies, here's your job, qualities, and guess. But if you want to do the structured interview methodology that we're talking about, it's for every hires all the time, and that's going to delay everything by months. And so how do you reduce? How do you get a win-win, and that was the goal of VidCruiter was faster, and better quality. And so that's sort of our mission at this time.

James Laughlin 42:35

I'll make sure and put the links in the show notes for that as well. So, people can actually click through and check it out. And as well, I guess, a question in my mind. So, this can be for an organization, but could this also be for a recruitment firm that wants to utilize the software?

Sean Fahey 42:50

Yeah, we have a lot of recruitment firms that use our products. We have governments, we helped build the West Gate tunnel in Melbourne, and we were part of that initiative. You know, we have clients all around the world. But whether it's an agency that's hiring for others, they can create video profiles, and then send those to their clients, which, you know, now I got a resume and I have six questions asked and you know, maybe a grid of what to look for when I'm evaluating them. We have a lot of agencies as clients as well.

James Laughlin 43:20

That's amazing. Well, there's just one last question, before we wrap up, I want to ask you to transport yourself ahead, maybe 20, 30, 40, maybe even 100 years if we're allowed to live that long with medical advances. So, it's your last day on earth. And it's your last five minutes, in fact, and you've got a young person who comes up to you, a young person in your family, who you really love and admire. And they asked you, hey, Sean, how can I lead my life on purpose? What would your advice be to them?

Sean Fahey 43:53

My advice would be to set up your life so that that happens automatically. And so, if that's your goal, set up your life so that it happens in an analogy that you could use in this time and era. You know, I never bought a TV, because I knew that that would distract me. For 20 years, I didn't own a television, because it wouldn't allow me to live my life for the purpose that I wanted to I would sometimes go and sit down and watch something that would remove me from being able to do that. Now, obviously, you need to do something else sometimes. And I got married and had to get a TV because my wife wanted to know you watch your movie from time to time, but that's an example of you setting up your life so that it happens no matter what you do, and you get that outcome.

James Laughlin 44:42

That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. I just want to say a huge thanks for what you do for all these companies globally, making life easier and getting better outcomes. So, keep doing what you're doing. I'm looking forward to seeing how it grows.

Sean Fahey 44:53

Thank you, James. I really appreciate you having us on the show. And yes, it's been awesome, great conversation. 

James Laughlin

Thanks, Sean.

James Laughlin 45:15

Thanks for tuning in today and investing in your own personal leadership. Please hit that subscribe button. And I'd love it if you'd leave me a rating and review. I've got some amazing guests lined up for you in the coming weeks. And leaders. It's that time to get out there and lead your life on purpose.