NC State Beats #1 Virginia for ACC Title + Gainey Portal Watch | Tuffy Talk Live

The Pack had a weekend. Let's break it all down.

NC State women's tennis did something special in Cary on Sunday — the 3-seed took down No. 1 Virginia to win the ACC Championship. Second title in program history. First since 2023. Tonight we talk about how they got there, what it means, and what to expect when the NCAA Tournament bracket drops.

Then we shift to the Gainey rebuild. Christian Hammond. Preston Edmead. Two commits in, nine guys out, and rumors swirling around Bishop Boswell. We're breaking down exactly what Gainey has, what he still needs, and whether he can actually build a tournament-caliber roster in one portal window.

And we don't let the baseball weekend off the hook. 40 runs allowed in two games at Wake Forest is not a vibe. Rett Johnson went 5-for-5 in Game 3 to save the sweep, and Ryder Garino gave us a shutdown pen outing — but the Pack heads to Virginia Tech this week and things have to be tighter. We get into it.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 1:56

What is going on, Wolfpack Nation? Welcome to another edition of the Toughy Talk Live Show. You got myself Late Smith, Greg Deleg here. We are excited to get to a lot of NC State stuff here today. There has been a non-revenue AC championship we got to talk about a good bit. A lot to talk about in the baseball world. Maybe not so positive as it was last week, Greg, but we you know owe it to the fans still to talk through it here and give some NC State fans some thoughts here. The good and the bad. But also, too, as well, though, you know, you got some hurricanes hockey going on right now as of this recording. The hurricanes are up one-nothing versus Ottawa. And uh, you know, I can't as much as I would love to poke at Greg and say, Greg, we're up one game to nothing, Tampa Bay is down to one-one. I know he's immediately gonna come back with the back-to-back Stanley Cup champions. So I'm not even gonna try to poke. You know, Greg. You know back. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. So yeah, anyway. But with that being said, though, I do want to start off with one thing, Greg, here, before we get to the NC State stuff here. And it was a question that uh I saw on ESPN today, actually, and I wanted to, you know, I had some immediate thoughts to it, uh, being a former hockey player myself, uh, and I know you've follow hockey pretty, pretty predominantly here, also with other sports as well. But with actually, before we even ask, I asked the question that I saw on ESPN today, I do want to say, as it says down there in the banner, if you have any questions, comments, thoughts, questions that you have, make sure to put them in the chat and they'll pop down right down there in that bottom square, and uh we will answer them and discuss them right here on the live show today. With that being said, Greg, there is a question around is the Stanley Cup the hardest trophy to win in sports? And I have my immediate thought for sure, but I want I want I want your thought, Greg. And I'm I'm trying to figure out if this is a a debate we can get into here, or if this is a you and I together can just squash any other doubts of uh anybody who's thinking otherwise, listening or watching the show.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, I I tend to believe it is. Um just because of like gosh, I hate, I hate uh it's a very like baseball is a very hard sport to play. Again, you can have make the argument that hitting a baseball is the toughest thing to do in sports, it's been often debated. But I just don't think that the amount of effort and physicality of any sport compares to hockey except for football. But you only have to play like three to four games to win a Super Bowl. Um you have to win like Mass Hard. What is it? Like 18 game, no, more than like 16 games to win a Stanley Cup, is that right?

unknown 4:47

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yep, 16. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

So I don't know, man. Like my favorite part of hockey is at the end of the season after the the trophy's been awarded, and you hear about what the injuries that the players have played through. Um, and it would blow people's minds, like torn ACLs, broken hands, broken this, you know, sprained that. Uh it just feels like they're just built different. Um, so yeah, that's why I think hockey, the Stanley Cup is the hardest thing to win.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, uh, you know, to kind of give a couple points to this here, just for curiosity's sake, here to this point. But obviously, yeah, the format, you know, with the NFL, it's you know, one game wins all. Uh, they also talked about the NCAA tournament as well, which I'm like, uh, in my opinion, there's you you can't compare anything in college compared to anything in the pros because then they're like you had to win four games. That's not well well, but also too, like like you have 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, sometimes even 40-year-olds trying to win the Stanley Cup, like you know, who've been who've been playing the sport for a long time. Like it's like the the creme de la creme, like you know, to to to win. And uh, but yeah, so in terms of formats, like you said, uh, you know, so NFL, single game, uh, MLB, a mix is a mix between short and long series. Also, yeah, the physicality, the injuries, you know, there's not a single NHL team, especially once you get to the second, third, fourth rounds, that doesn't have a few injuries that are being played for that they're they're being played through. It's just a given. But also to the depth. Uh, you know, in order to be a Stanley Cup winning team, you can't just have a Kevin Durant and a Steph Curry, and you're gonna be competing for an you know a championship. You gotta have five, six, you know, proper stars and then and then depth behind it. And you gotta have solid goaltending, you know, to to win a standard cup. You don't necessarily need to have phenomenal, you know, you don't need to have Vabrowski necessarily, but you need to have solid goaltending, period. It is a team win. But also, too, as well, is the fact that uh like the incidentally tournament, one of the things, big things about it is um, you know, that people love is the the uh randomness a little bit to it, you know. Just in an incidentally tournament, if you have a bad day, you have a 12-seed upsetting a five seed. You have sometimes in a rare occasion a 16 a 16 seed uh uh upsetting a one seed. Now, on no planet earth would anybody say that 16 seed is truly a better team than the one seed. That's never been the case. Nobody's saying that the UVA team that lost was uh was not as good as the 16 seed that upset them. But uh in the NHL, it it's first of all interesting stat. There's only been one time, Greg, in the last decade that the uh betting favorite to win the Stanley Cup actually won the Stanley Cup. Do you know which you wanna you want to guess which team that was, Greg?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Was it my lightning? Nope. Nope. Uh I don't even like I'm saying, like it's it it happens in so infrequently. Um yeah, yeah, I don't know. Give me give me give me a hint, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

It's the team that's probably the batting favorite to win it right now. So Colorado, Colorado 2022.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Colorado they beat us, they beat the lightning.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

So to get to get rid of your three pre Greg, you'll say right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

No, it look, it's tough. Uh there's been many a times when Tampa Bay won the president's trophy for the league's best team and got bounced in like the first or second round. I mean, it just happens. Um it's it's tough, it's tough.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

Yeah, but again, I mean the thing is that you know, it there's a difference between being the best team in the regular season and being a best team in the playoffs, and a lot of that has to do with you know, chips falling properly. Gotta get have a little bit of puck luck. I mean, there's there's you know, there's everything in life has a little bit of luck to it. But also, too, as well, is the fact that just you know, certain certain players shine at the right times, and uh, you know, like that's the other thing as well, is that when you look at most Stanley Cup winning teams, it has some seniority to it. Some, you know, some guys that have been playing the game for a while that that rise up at the proper times here.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

So let's let's do this then. Let's bring it back to college sports. What do you think of the college sports is the toughest to win?

SPEAKER_04 9:12

All right, so that's tough. Um I mean i I feel like I feel like it's gotta be either men's basketball or football. Mostly just because of well, I checked that.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Baseball's pretty tough, man.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

I was gonna say, I was gonna say, I I I know. I checked that, I was like, oh uh yeah, I know baseball. Yeah, you know that's tough. That's actually a tough question. Only because, you know, I mean, football, it's a long season, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

I would say football's gotten tougher, right? Because now you've added extra rounds to the playoffs and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

Um yeah, you got David Jones in here saying baseball great.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, that's what I was gonna go with, honestly. Uh, just because you have a regional, right? And if you especially if you have to come out of the losers bracket, it's really tough in baseball, right? Um so you you know, you have to win uh three games in in a regional in some kind of combination, whether you win the first three or lose one and then win the next three, or it there's multiple combinations, so I won't go into that. But then you have to go win two out of three on a super regional, and then you gotta go to the college world series where you you know have to get out of pool play and then go win a best of three on top of that. So I I I think it's college baseball. Um basketball is you know, basically you win four games and in a row and you're done, but you have plenty of time. I mean, you you you play two games every weekend, essentially, you got rest a little bit. Like that seems fairly fairly common, even like for a regular season. Um so yeah, I think it's college baseball personally.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Let me give you so now let's give you the the the hide here to your jackal here with football and and why I think it's a first of all 12 game regular season. You know, if you make it to the playoffs, you're more than likely making it to your conference championship game. So that's 13. And then you got depending on how you're seated. Depending on how you're yeah, yeah, and then depending on how you're seated, you have to play four, you can play up to four more games to you know three or four. Three or four, depending on your seating. Um, so also too, as well, in terms of physicality, like we said, you know, there's definitely a different level of physicality uh in football versus baseball, but also too, as well in baseball, Greg, you know, if you're the let's say top four national seeds, let's say you're going against you're again paired with the 13th, 14, 15th, or 16th national seeds regional.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

If you hold chalk.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

If you hold chalk, right, no, exactly. But uh my thing is that in football I I I think in baseball, since there is so much more randomness, there's a lot of times that you have you can be very lucky and play like in in our first college world series, you play rice. I can't remember who who this the seed was that lost, but you definitely you know can have some randomness that goes your way sure to get you a good a good a good opportunity. But but in in college in the college football playoffs, those top 12 teams, you know, now actually you know what I take that immediately back though because freaking JMU is playing in it, like okay, well, okay, I take that back.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So but you're only gonna get one or two of those, right? Out of the playoffs.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

You're getting one, and and then you're playing juggernauts. Uh you know, since I because I also think too, as well, I think one thing that is makes it tougher for football is that the it's a lot more top heavy, I feel like, in college football than it is top heavy in college baseball. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, I mean, two years ago when you got all ACC, all S E C uh in 24 when we when last time we made it, like I mean, those were juggernauts. I granted, you know, state did go on the road to Athens and upset the national seed there. But you know, typically, you know, out of the eight teams that make it to Omaha, five to six are usually national seeds. Um, you know, you'll have maybe one or two um sneak in as as non-national seeds, but it for the most part, it holds uh it holds pretty close to chalk. Um but yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's a it's a good debate.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

It is a fun debate, yeah. No. Um and uh MB24 coming in here, right? As we were transitioning, I love MB24 saying I think baseball, due to how you have to plan your pitching. Yeah, I mean, but just like it says, Greg, you know, there's a big difference between going into the winner's bracket and going into the losers bracket. Like those first two games are 80% of the regional, honestly. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

How do you plan your pitching, right? Um obviously you obviously you go all in with your chips for game one, and then you know, you depending on how it goes, you know, if you go extra innings, you got to use extra pitchers. If you got a pitcher that kind of struggles, um, yeah, I mean that all that all dictates how how it how it can turn out for you in the long term. But yeah, no, fun debate.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Yeah. So with that being said, you know, Greg, uh I I put out a tweet out there saying that, you know, listen, like, you know, we all understand there's a difference between the revenue, sports, and the non-revenue, you know, men's basketball, football versus the rest here. But you know, at the end of the day, when you win an ACC title, especially in a conference as heavy in women's tennis as the ACC is, you gotta give them their roses for here for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

So absolutely, you know, they they had a tough path to a championship and and they and they ran through it.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Yeah. I mean, so obviously we're gonna talk here to start here about the NC State women's tennis team. Uh, win the ACC title second time in program history, second time in the last four years, both under Coach Simon Urshaw. Um went into the uh ACC tournament, ranked 13th nationally. Uh, the number three seed in the tournament, which Greg, again, I mean, if if you don't know anything about women's tennis, they were ranked 13th nationally, but ranked the three seed in the AC tournament. So again, very, very top heavy AC conference here. Um but to get there, they had to beat the number six seed Cal, who was number 21 in the country, swept them 4-0. Uh and then they had to go against the number two seed UNC, who was number six nationally, won four to two. Um and also two along uh during that uh matchup, uh Mia Slama, who's the MVP, rightfully so, uh beat the 2025 NCAA singles champ Reese, uh Reese Bronteer from UNC as well to do it. So, you know, again, just I in my opinion, that see, and we can honestly get into another debate of which win was bigger, because I mean UNC was was actually the highest ranked national team in terms of number six in the country, and a two on along the way in order to get there. We had to beat the NCAA singles champ in order to get there as well. And then to wrap it all up, you had to beat the number one seed, Virginia, who's number seven in the country, and you swept them four-nothing. Uh, got the doubles point and then um got the first three single wins to wrap it up here.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So I I agree with you. I think the Carolina victory was more impressive just because you you you did go through the singles champion. Um for me, like I get it, you get ranked six, seven, four, five, whatever. Some of that's subjective. Uh rankings are very subjective. Um, but if you go out and beat a national title winner, then that's a that's an exclamation point in my book.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Yeah. Well, and also, too, as well, like you know, one of the things that's what was forgotten about, I feel, I feel like, in my opinion, is the fact that uh we had two uh tennis players win the doubles national championship earlier this season.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, so when you add that.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah, so so so when yeah, so when you add those two things together, it's it's it's been an extremely impressive season to say the least for sure for Coach Earnshaw. So that's all two of them there.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, that's another great hire just under the radar. Like again, because like you said, it's an it's a non-rev sport, um, don't get a lot of lot of love. No, they do everything to market themselves to get people to come out, and I think definitely if you're you know any kind of if you're into into any kind of tennis, it's kind of fun. Like I've been to a couple of matches. Uh, unfortunately, it falls in a line a lot of times with baseball season. Uh, so it's hard for me to make things, but if I can get over there for you know an hour or two, I've done that multiple times. And it's fun, uh, whether it's indoors or outdoors. Uh, it is tennis, but it gets a little raucous. I I kind of I kind of enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Yeah. Well, and and and to highlight even more of how impressive this win was, uh, NC State lost to Virginia during the regular season, uh, just eight days before they faced each other in the AC tournament. And you you UBA was 21 and 5 overall, undefeated in the ACC, 12 and 0. And again, I I say this again, Greg. The ACC is extremely difficult women's stance. To go undefeated in the regular season, yeah. That's that's tough. And you beat them.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see how the uh how the big tournament plays out as far as the seedings. Um, you know, does the state get a break with being the ACC champion and knocking off you know, UVA and Carolina on the way? Like, will they get a better seed? Um, you know, how much does the committee value regular season versus postseason? Because again, um it's just as hard, you know, whether it's a a postseason or or um a regular season match. Now, I think I think the UVA match was close when we lost. I is that do you remember the score? Or two. I thought yeah, it was decided in the singles matches. But um, so yeah, we you know we came back and then we handled Carolina pretty well, even though the matches were close. So the overall score doesn't look as close as it really was. Um, but state was able to to prevail in that match. So yeah, um just yeah, I again can't say enough about Kurt Coach Urshaw and what he's built over there. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah, huge shout out. Uh Northwolf coming in here. The environment of college tennis matches electric. If there is a big and vocal crowd, which was the case with the Wolfpack Women versus UNC in Virginia in the AC tournament, then watch out for here for sure. And yeah, I mean, and and that's and that's the thing we have to remind state fans all the time. Is once again, a lot of times they're literally women's tennis is laid not only offering you because all all admission is free to go watch the women's tennis masters, a lot of times they're giving you like cookies, free pizza, you name it.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah, no, it's it's and and and and then you know to the to the point of you know here that n um North Wolf Wolf North Wolf is making that ACC championship's over in Kerry, like it's in our backyard. Like there's no reason why, you know, it does cost a few dollars to go to the to the ACC tournament. Not not a lot. I think it was like 15-20 bucks when I when I went a couple years ago. But um, it's a lot of fun, lots of matches happening. Um, the carry facility is is very nice to go watch a a tennis match. So um, but yeah, it's um it's one of those championships that's right in your backyard, and you know, uh hopefully they had a good turnout. I was over in Winston, so but I was definitely following it on my phone.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Yeah, no, watching out on TV, uh no, it was definitely a great turnout for sure. And uh, you know, again, I was extremely impressed for sure. I was not expecting uh, you know, uh a dominant win like that, uh, for sure. So again, it definitely makes me excited. Is that in the fact that a couple years ago we uh made it to the national championship match for Shue and C fell up a little bit short here, so you know, hey, this is a team I feel like that's gonna go into the instable tournament under the radar, not really talking about you know, make you know, as much as they should be and make some noise here for sure. Um so again, time will tell. CD, I think we should be able to find out more tomorrow. Um, and uh hopefully we get uh a good run here and uh we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, the men fell a little short in the ACC tournament, but again, they'll big the big tournament as well. And you know, they've got they've got some talent on there. They can they can surprise some people. Um so again, you know, you talked about you know puck luck earlier, but you know, there is a such thing as seeding luck, and you got to get the right matchups. Um that will that goes a long way in determining you know your fate a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Yeah, no, absolutely. So again, uh huge hats off uh to to Mia, Gabriella, Victoria, uh, Coach Earnshaw, uh, and the NSA women's team tennis team on their ACC championship uh in dominant fashion here for sure, and excited to support and follow them as they go into the NCAA tournament here. So uh with that being said, uh the big thing here, Greg, is uh do not worry, do not fret whatsoever. The burner verse has confirmed that Paul McNeil is coming back. So if the burner verse says it, Greg, it's happening, baby. Like, I mean, I mean, what do we even need IPS for? What do we need pack pride? What do we need? The Wolfpacker for like the Burnerverse has this cover, Greg. So please say it's happening.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah. No, just go ahead and stamp it and keep moving to the next topic. So what do you have to get?

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Again, it it's it's just funny to me how like you can keep in mind, folks. Like this is like the great thing about Verners burners is more like is 99.9% of the time, aka I'm not saying it's an absolute because I'm sure there's a there's a few, you know, you know, but like you know, there's a few that maybe that that don't have that most most all of them do not have a name, a face, or anything like that type zone. So they can say whatever they want to say, and you know, and if they're wrong, then who cares? You know, like it it does nothing to them, you know, they don't need to stand by it or anything. They can just, you know, if they want to delete it and create a different burner, and you know, who cares? So yeah, but with that being said, though, I mean I do find it interesting, Greg, because I mean that I think that's the big thing. Yeah, no, like Mongo said, not all burners, yeah. Again, it's I mean, you know, to each its own here, but one percent. One percent, exactly. Um, but yeah, Greg, so so kind of talk to me in terms of and let me know in the comments here, too, as well, y'all, what you think about Paul McNeil. Like, you know, is it is it annoying to you at all that we haven't heard a decision yet from Paul? Like, where's what's your kind of stance right now on the Paul McNeil return or transfer or MBA decision?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, well, the NBA decision is always gonna be like a little bit longer process, but um I would be shocked, shock, shock, shocked if he does not return back to college, just because like I don't think he's got a good enough draft grade to where um the money is better uh in the NBA. Um, I mean, obviously there's pros and cons, right? Um, you get your pro con you get your pro career going a little bit faster, but at this point, it doesn't matter because the money is fair, definitely unless you're a lottery pick, I think the money's probably better for at least in the first year for a college.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Um but especially because this NBA class is so loaded too, as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

It's a pretty good class, and and again, they they slot value. And so you you you know if you're above pick whatever, you know what you're gonna be roughly making, and then you already know kind of what your market value is um at the college level. Um so yeah, but for as far as like okay, like making a decision, um definitely have to make the right decision for themselves. Um, you know, they should not be influenced by agents or fans or coaches of other teams. Like you you really have to sit down and figure out what's best for you and your family and make sure that you're getting good sound advice. And I feel like a lot of times these players are not getting good advice, whether they're getting family friends in their ear, whether getting agents in the ear, whether getting coaches in their ear. Um, you know, there's a lot of times, you know, you hear that players regret their decisions because they did this or that for this reason. Um, you know, are you a player that wants to get paid? Are you want to are you a player that wants to go win a championship? Are you wanting to be a player who's gonna get paid, but maybe not as much paid to go chase the championship? Are you gonna go to a crappy team and go max out your your dollar value? Those are things that only you as a player know what you want to do. Um, you know, if you're if you're a player with your salt, I would like take decent money, but then also go to a contending contending team, right? Like, so what is more important in your life? Um, but as far as the timeline goes, you can't hold you can't hold teams hostage. And I feel like that's we're getting into that that area. Um because last year, like he went through this process and he came back pretty quickly. Um now I don't think his value was nearly what it is this year. Um, you know, he had very little playing time the year before under Keats, and then he blossoms this last year. Um, and there was no way to project that, right? And I think that's the thing. Um, that's the thing that we're doing with a lot of other players in a tier lower than McNeil. Um, but at some point you have to make a decision. Like be an adult, make a decision and roll with it.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, and Chillen's saying uh the thing I think a lot of Venice State and State fans are feeling, which is I'm fine with whatever he does, just don't go to UNC. And I I don't know, Greg.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

I mean, I I'm here's like it sounds like one of our former players might be headed there.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Well, and and you know, and we'll talk about that, but yeah, yeah, we could talk about that. But yeah, in terms of Paul, I don't know. I I've you know, he he's the North Carolina guy, you know, he's been in C State for for two years now. Uh heck, there was even a video of him two years ago when we got uh beat by UNC and the UNC guy was smack talking to us, and Paul McNeil yelled at him and he could read his lips, but he said puck you uh uh to the UNC guy. And so again, like you know, I I think he's fully like bought into which side of the rivalry he falls on, but also too as well. I don't know, man. Like, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I will say look, I I for all the jokes we like to make at Carolina's expense, like they do they didn't have to do. There's a money needing well, not only that, but you know, and I and I I I feel the counter-argument coming if I make this comment, but yes, um, you you know, you have a guy that's mentored Steph and mentored LeBron and can get you to the league, right? Right? No, I look I get it, I get it. Um, but then you have Belichick who just feels like the complete opposite of of what this what this feels like. Um so is how important is that to Paul McNeil? Like, does he feel like he can get developed under Gainey and get the exposure that he needs to get in order to be seen? I I feel yes. Like honestly, any team worth their salt and um when I say team, NBA team, like they're going to do their due diligence to like like find guys and scout them and then figure out if they're a prospect that they want to deal with. Um, I don't think that you need the Carolina name across your chest to be rated or ranked any higher. Um I think Gainey, I honestly, if anything, and this is where the argument comes in about Paul versus potential other recruits or commits. Can Gainey get him to the next level defensively, right? Because if if anything, the knock on McNeil's game is he doesn't play enough defense, right? Correct um, and that's something where Ganey could help him, right? Like, like can Carolina or another team help him that way? Maybe, maybe not. Like, I don't, I'm not saying yes or no, but again, that's a decision he has to make. Like, who can best develop him for his future?

SPEAKER_04 28:50

Yeah, no, absolutely. Because also other thing, too, as well, that state fans can't forget about as well, is the long relationship that Ganey and uh and McNeil have, uh, you know, when Gainey originally recruited McNeil uh out of high school when when Ganey was at Tennessee. So you know that has to pull a little bit of weight here for sure, too, as well. So so I mean, just wanted to kind of ask Greg like do you think that this delay is because he's weighing college options, or do you think it truly is just a matter of him deciding, like him letting the NBA process see itself through?

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, I mean, not not being in the no, right? Um I I would say comfortably, I pad that's a little bit of each. Um, but again, I think at this point, I well, don't they go through so so this is what I'm trying to remember as far as as the process. Um, do they go to the combine? Like, what do they what is the what is the process look like in the timeline that it looks like? Like I'm not much of a NBA guy, so I don't really follow all of that stuff. Like I follow NFL and MLB, but I'm not really an NBA guy, so I'm not sure what that like when you have to you know pull out of the draft process. And so does anyone know that like that's what I'm not sure about.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Yeah, let us know in the comments here for sure. It's definitely I'm the first thing from a big NBA follower too. I know that you get you know invited uh you know to uh the combine um well also too, like teams like we'll we'll ask you to come and work out for them things like that too, as well. So yeah, I again I I I I I think it's more of just weighing college options at this point. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, I I I do. I think that um as good as Paul is, I I don't think he's ready for the NBA, or the NBA is not ready for him, I would say. Um, you know, because that it takes two to tango to become an NBA player, so I hear. Um, because if that were the case, I'd have been an NBA player a long time ago. But um yeah, I I think that like Paul is definitely a prospect for the NBA. Um I don't again, like you said earlier, like the draft class is really loaded this year. I if he if he were to get drafted, I don't believe he's a first-round draft pick this year. I think I could see a scenario where he could be a second round draft pick, but like even second-round draft picks, like their contracts aren't like as guaranteed that typically they become two-way players. And at that point, also the money is is not as good. Um you know, unless you make the NBA roster, then it changes. But I'm not sure. And the question was in here in the comments, like, what do we think that his number looks like? Um I don't know, man. Like I've heard, like I feel like the the floor is like two and a half million, and I feel like the ceiling is about three and a half million. Um if I had to if I had to guess, like again, I have no no thing out there, but um, I know we'll talk about women's basketball in a little bit. And um some of the rumors out there, you know, what we heard for some of the women's players ended up being the number. Um yeah, so I I think it's somewhere between two and a half and three and a half. And again, you know, does state want Paul McNeil? Like you can go pay Paul whatever number you want to give him, right? There's nothing that precludes that, but then you have a budget for the rest of your players. So you you have to keep that in mind. And I think you know, we talked about this before. If you just because you have money doesn't mean you have to go spend it all, right? Right. Um, you you want to spend it smartly. And I don't like if it were me, I would be comfortable with Paul around like 2.75. Like that would be my that would be my number where I would be like, okay, like again, you want value. And as much as I hate to say this, you know, and I compare us to professional sports, we would be considered a small market team. And like, yes, you can go overpay for some of your players, and maybe sometimes you have to in order to retain them, as as I've I've as I've seen on the female side. Um, but like you can't you can't dedicate one quarter of your of your of your budget to one player. And if state's numbers around 9 million, 10 million, if those rumors are true, if you pay Paul three, that's a third of your budget right there. And like it's a little it's a little little much to pay one player that number, that pay that player that number.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

Yeah, it definitely seems like Bradley M uh 7899 hidden in the chat. Do you think that you know we shouldn't be paying above even two million for Paul? And here's my thing, Greg. You know, I there the the and I've I've heard this said multiple times by multiple different areas as well, and I completely agree with it. At the end day, Paul is still such a huge work in progress. Uh, you know, there's no doubt his side, yeah. Yeah, defensive side, but even too as well. His his his go to the basket game uh is still a work in progress as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

He's not a playmaker, he's a catch and shoot guy.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

He's he is an elite shooter for sure. That he does not need to work on, you know, like that. That's not the area he needs to work on. But so so that that's my big issue for sure is that if you're gonna spend you know above 30, you know, of your budget, is that the real you know, I mean now again, it could work out. That's the thing, though. Again, like like if Ganey has enough faith and and is willing to take that risk on Paul, you know, hey, listen, like like at the end of the day, everybody's gotta make gotta get to make risks for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And that's a great point. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, good.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Yep. Well, because the thing I love, and because everybody says, well, if you have Christian Hammond, if you have President Edmead, who are both known as shooters here, then why do you need Paul? It's like, well, listen, at the end of the day, you know, you I don't want to put necessarily all my chips in the Paul basket all year round, you know, especially too in the game of basketball.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

You saw them last year. You score 41 and then barely can't score 10.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

Right, yeah, like like it happens, you know, it goes through ebbs and flows here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Like he's very streaky.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

It's very streaky.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Uh so um, you know, the other point I'll make too, like again, and and you started to you started to allude to it was what kind of talent are you putting around him, right? Correct. And and and and do you feel that you can go get value for guys that are being undervalued, right? Like you can go pay 700,000 for a guy that that you see a lot of upside based on your on your system. And and at the end of the day, you don't really know what you don't know if you got good value. Say we go out and pay Paul two and a half, three, three and a half, whatever that number becomes. If you surround him with the right talent around him, and then you can kind of protect him defensively, um, that's a big thing, right? Like, do you do you get a shot blocker rim protector where if a player beats Paul off the dribble and he can kind of back him up defensively, okay, then like you're good. Um, but you know, we saw we saw instances last year where we got beat off the ball and one of our forwards, you know, like L Van Lubin or Sonia or somebody got in foul trouble because they're having to they're having to defend twice as hard. They're defending their man plus the man that gets beat off the ball. Um so yeah, if if you feel like you can work budgetarily around whatever number you're comfortable paying with Paul, then go for it. Um and again, like I said, we may have to overpay for Paul if we want to keep him. But again, if you overpay for Paul, you better, it's like pay rock Peter to pay Paul, literally, right? Um if you if you do that, then you better go find some diamonds in the rough and they and that they have to they have to pay off for you.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Well, and to kind of kind of transition this conversation a little bit here to another area. One of the things I love that Gainey has done so honestly, like I love how Gainey has handled the transfer portal so far. Like it really does seem like he took his time, he evaluated, and now you're starting to see a little bit of the you know, like these players showing up that that people didn't even know they were we were even interested until they showed up. And and and once you start to, I mean, and it's and it's a mix between Power Forge, you have guards, you have even centers coming. You know, you have the guy from US uh Southern California, 7-3 guy who's taking a visit this upcoming weekend. Uh so here's the thing is I love is that like it's obvious from the guys he's he's bringing to visit on visits, he's not waiting for McNeil. At the end of the day, I think that there is gonna come a point here, probably by this coming weekend, where at the end of the day, if the opportunity is on the table, Ganey might just have to say, hey, listen, McNeil, like you know, we have a guy we're very excited about, like, especially if it's a big because because here's the thing too, Greg. If you want a uh a solid center, seven foot center, it's gonna cost you at least three three million at the very least.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Depending on who they are, but yeah, that's that's a fair assessment.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

For for for for for a solid for a solid big, that's that that's what the market is for sure. That that you've heard between I've heard between three and four million is around what what you've heard, which is just it's market value. Um, and so with that being said, you know, if like let's say this center comes in, if Gany's really high on him, because here's my thing is I you know, I think that you can't get both. You're either going to get a solidified center or you're gonna get McNeil, in my opinion. I don't know if you could do both with with the with the with the NIL budget we have. Do you disagree, Greg?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Um again, like it goes back to what I said just a few minutes ago. Yes, you have to prioritize. And if you get McNeil, like what can you surround him with? Like, again, what is more important? I are you do you want a shooter or a defender? Now we saw again, I hate comparing last year to this year because one, we don't even know what this year's team is gonna look like. We don't know what they're gonna do defensively, but I told you when they hired Gainey, as long as we don't switch defensively on every single play, I think we're gonna be okay. Um but with that being said, you saw what Virginia did to us three times last year, right? And they ran big after big after big at us, and we had no answer. We got we just got beat down two out of the three games. Like it's hard to beat a team three times in a row, and yet Virginia did it, and we weren't even close until the last game, and I think we lost by like seven points. Um it would have taken the game of our life to beat Virginia last year, but because we just got destroyed, like they blocked they probably blocked what 15-16 shots in the three games we played against them at least. We got out rebounded probably two to one in those in those matches. Um yeah, and so there that that's that's Virginia's philosophy. And so if you're trying to win the ACC, there's a good chance you're gonna have to go through Virginia at some point, right? And Carolina, like like is gonna get bigs. Duke's gonna be bigs, but by the way, it's really weird that one so far in the portal, Duke didn't have anyone that really went in the portal that was in the top 100, and they really haven't gotten anybody in the top 100 yet, which is very interesting. Um, but I digress. Um so yeah, you're gonna, I think you're gonna have to get big. Like a six foot seven guy at center is not gonna cut it, like anything less than six foot ten is not gonna cut it, and you probably need two of those.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

Yeah, yep. Well, and and and also too, as well, because again, just like the the market is it's it's a known fact at this point. The market for centers is just so much more bloated than every other position.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Um, and and it's interesting too because the philosophy in basketball has shifted over the years, like back in the 80s, it was dominated by big men. Like, like you look at Patrick Ewing, you look at Kim Elijah, you look at Carmelone, he wasn't necessarily a true big, but he was like a power forward, right? Um, like the game ran through the bigs, like back to your back to the basket, work it, whatever. Now it's it's shooting. It's just like if you don't got four shooting guards, then what are you even doing? But now you're starting to see the philosophy kind of shift back to big man, right? With with Wimby in the NBA, like he's a new breed of big man, right? He's not your typical prototypical six foot ten, seven foot one, just beast of a linebacker center. They're more nimble, quick, European, you know, do a multitude of things, right? Um, and you saw that last year with again. I go back to UVA, they had like three European dudes at bigs, and they all did a little something a little different. Um so you either adapt or you become a dinosaur.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

That's right. Yeah. And here's my thing, too, as well, is at the end of the day, it's patience, you know. But but patience, but also too, I love the fact that it's clear Gainey is moving, unlike another former coach that it is is like is like dust, you know, it's like the little dust ball moving moving in a desert right now.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Or like your like your browser spinning, right? Like it just keeps spinning.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Yeah, it's just spinning, it's not doing anything. But but you know, so but again, with both guys, I still would say, even though I'm not a fan of that other guy, for both guys, and for every coach, I would say patience. Like it, it's it's did you see speaking of that other coach?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Did you I don't know if I shared it with us. I know I shared it with Ryan the other day. It was a big black guy on a on a rant. We can't play it here, but it's just Google in our LSU fan loses it on Will Wade. It is one of the funniest, like 20-second clips you will ever, ever, ever see. Um, I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you offline when we get done with this.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

But uh yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah, no, it's just patience and and to the last point about McNeil, I think it has to come to a head this week at some point. Um I think that um I think Ganey will probably give an ultimatum because again, he doesn't want to be held hostage in this situation. He's gonna he's gonna present probably if he hasn't already, and this may already happen. I'm obviously just speculating here. He's gonna say, This is our final number, this is what we're gonna put around you. Are you in or you out? If you're in, great. Let's get it signed up, let's get it moving so that way I can continue to complete and build a roster around you. If not, Paul, thank you for your service. You've been a hell of a guy. You know, you didn't have to come back this last year, but we're gonna move on and go get the team that we need to go compete to win a championship. And I think that's probably how the conversation will go. I think there's a mutual respect from both of them, but I don't think either one of them is gonna play. Well, I I will tell you this that Ganey will probably not play the games. I don't think McNeil is playing a game, I think he's truly going through the process, but he some point has to make that decision. Like his representation, his friends and family cannot make that for him. He needs to correct up and make that decision, whatever that is, and then live with the decision.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Yep. And then the last thing I want to say about Paul is the fact that la everybody, you know, lots I've seen one or two people point out about how last year Paul, you know, committed to the previous coach pretty early that he was coming back, um, and saying, Well, you know, why hasn't he done that here? Well, I would say, well, his value this year is definitely extremely is much higher than it was last year. I mean, he broke he he. tie the AC record and three-pointers made in a game.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

I mean that by itself tie the state single season record.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Right. Yeah and the tie the state season single season record as well which I mean anybody who's followed college basketball knows that in state it's been known for having some pretty daggone good three-point shooters in its history.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Which by the way do you remember who holds that record? Sky Wood. No it just happened a few years ago nope a couple years ago nope.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Man I should know this uh how many years are we talking ago? Two years ago Final four run oh DJ Horn right that's what I'm saying like that's a trivia question yeah exactly yeah people don't realize like like he he tied the record or yeah he set the record um in that again he didn't shoot it at the same clip that Scott did but he put up a ton of three pointers that year a ton yeah so yeah but yeah DJ won and and to kind of talk like big philosophy thought talk here Greg as we kind of move into the women's side here I am fully on board with the the philosophy of listen get you a lot of solid upside guys don't I'm not really a fan of the UNC you know go go all in on two guys and you know kind of fill in around just because of the fact that like you know you like like look at like look at Michigan. What did Michigan do? Did Michigan get you know that one absolute stud no I mean they really got a lot of guys that that are were were were solid pieces for those teams but the guy that even won the MVP uh you know former UNC uh point guard he was a no he's he's been he's he's been terrible for us we got we got rid of him and he went and won the the NCAA championship game MVP you know they they they took guys that are solidified you know producers and put them together and guess what it turned into a national championship team yeah I mean they created a cohesive unit and they were able to go you know win an win a national championship and by the way like they were pretty much the dominant team for most of the part most of the season anyway it was kind of like them in Arizona were kind of like the two 1A 1Bs um that were the most consistent um what do those two things have in common they're both great teams they're both great teams yeah um right I mean this past year you saw they put a lot of their all their ducks into Caleb Wilson and as as good as Caleb Wilson was he had a free cann injury and he was out and pretty much was the was the was the the dunce the dunsky of the of the season and um I I think like a team like Michigan could could probably have withstood an injury like that.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Granted Caleb Wilson is a and is going to be a top five draft pick um with all you know intents and purposes but um you have to be careful when you have only one like superstar and you just have four guys around him to pass them the ball. It's it's it's a much tougher um water to navigate.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Yep. So to answer MB24's question here because we can answer this real quickly I think it's all really just speculation Greg.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

I mean you've heard between nine to twelve but it's it's just yeah if I had to guess I mean I kind of use the the number nine earlier in my discussion just as a nice number to say hey if you give Paul McNeil three million dollars that's a third of your budget. I I do think it's somewhere around 10 to probably 11 million if I had to guess it may I think if I've if I've heard what I heard is correct like like the solid budget is 10 to 11 but there's might be some discretionary funds we could tap into as an emergency hey we need like kind of like what we did with Darion last year and then um uh who was the one that that committed and then decommitted and then went to Kansas um PJ oh oh uh uh yeah we're actually talking to him now or we were are some whatever yeah what yeah the center why am I just anyway so we found it was some we we got a couple extra dollars uh to get him to commit um we we we hit up the discretionary fund or the slush fund as I like to call it and then you know of course it thank you yeah Paul Membaya thank you Paul Mbaya yeah yeah I'm just I'm just like the um so they so they they found some more funds to get him from what I understand and obviously he ultimately didn't commit um but I think the the the the dollar bearers that be would probably like to keep that number around 10 to 11 but you know can break the case open in emergency and and pull out a couple million if necessary but again that's not a that's not a sustainable um it's not a long-term success I don't think you can kind of keep tapping in those emergency emergency discretionary funds every year I think you know people that have to provide that money are gonna get tired especially if you're not like going to Final Fours and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Exactly so with that being said though switching over to women's basketball side Greg it's a very it's a very like tough situation there. It really just is because and and because like you've seen it with uh you know like even even South Carolina women's basketball let's say for example you know who's been one of the dynasties of women's basketball over the last you know five to eight years uh you know always competing for a national title one of the greatest women's basketball coaches of all time Don Staley's coaching them yet still year after year they still lose money overall on the season for from that program and uh you said right but wait go ahead yeah no yeah you go ahead please oh it's the coach's salary uh that's the that's the number one driving factor is that you know you're paying um you know Don Gino um probably there's probably a couple other coaches but but they're the two mulky yeah mulky um maybe even Texas coach uh Schaefer um you're you're you they're getting top dollar they're they're the top one percent earners of their sport um so in order to you just have a you know a chance to be in the conversation you got to pay up and a lot of their a lot of their stuff goes to the coaching and the staff as well because again they have top notch staffs. Yep. So with that being said Greg I mean like you know uh I think it was what's her name Audi Brooks I think is her name the the transfer from Iowa State who just committed what is it Cooks. Yeah Cooks uh committed to Oklahoma State and uh it's been said that she's getting 1.4 million dollars to go to Oklahoma State here and I don't know Greg if we could even you know give our whole NIL budget and and and that's more than our budget. That's more than our budget.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

So maybe not quite our budget's right around around 1.4 I'll say either a little less a little more um yeah but what's half of 1.4 700 000 what if I told you that's what tilde trigger got to go to Washington so think about that as far as talent right so a 1.4 and then a 700,000 um yeah um so yeah I mean here's my thing Greg is is this going to be a little bit of a you know a decision it's gonna be it's gonna it's gonna be a split road here you know either we're gonna keep doing what we're doing and we're gonna be middle to upper half of the ACC or we're going to make some moves and invest.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

But also too if you do invest in women's basketball where does it get pulled from you know and I don't know if you could really tap the wells of any other non-revenue sport. I mean there's not much there that you're gonna get from that but are you really going to pull away from men's basketball where you just invested a big sum right now?

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Probably not are you really going to pull away from football you know I mean in in football the rumored number is 13 million like that's that's that's nothing that's not even like I don't know where that puts you in the top you know 2550 or whatever but you know it's rumored that Ohio State um who else Alabama um you know those programs are in the 30 to 40 million dollar range um some even say like teams are going to start approaching 50 million really quickly um yeah so if we're here at 13 maybe we can get that number you know depending on Rev share and all that maybe up to like I maybe 16 17 like that's still not even not even close to what the big boys are paying. And you see what we're getting with that. Now again if you go play money ball like maybe you get you know fancy and and create you know stuff but that's just where we are and and and I hate again I say this every time and I just I should just have this on recording. Like if people want to complain about where we're at in athletics correct then like let's let's do something um but yeah yeah but but again too is it's like at the end of the day like if I have five you know you know if I have five dollars I want to donate Greg like you know like yes like like like it's one thing just to donate like like Greg I am willing to donate but I also too like you know football you know needs the money too women's uh women's basketball needs the money men's basketball needs the money there's wrestling needs the money like you know there's all these different areas yeah I mean we just lost Vince Robinson a national champion right he went to Nebraska probably got an IO I would be willing to bet your paycheck that he got in IO I I I've heard it's rumored around 150 000 is what yeah it's not a lot but again it's something that's 150 000 that more they didn't they didn't have yeah like but so so with that being said though to to to wee jones question of why do the huskies have so much money for women's basketball is crazy why does Oklahoma state have so much money Oklahoma State Oklahoma State's got stupid money they've always had well they got stupid money but but but like but there they just hired a brand new you know football coach you know like you know but yet I don't have a man as a coach anymore well it's yeah exactly so so so it's like it's like whoa like like Oklahoma State was way out of left field uh for for them to get cooks like that was that was uh shocking uh for sure yeah I I didn't think I had them in my top ten um um yeah I I don't know I I joked with a friend of mine um I said that that's a that's a lot of money to go buy chicken fried steak which apparently is the official meal of Oklahoma so she'll be able to buy a couple of chicken fried steaks um we kind of talked about this once before if you're making 1.4 million dollars or if you're a basketball player making three million dollars at what point should you be paying for your own education?

SPEAKER_04 54:43

Yeah we talked about that yeah yeah yeah no I mean it it it it it it's sad it really is sad because it's like listen like when you make that kind of money yeah unfortunately education is just like that's that's just like the the little gnat uh you know flying in your ear like for for for most all athletes it's like yeah like listen I don't care like I'm I'm making 1.4 million before taxes and everything like that and paying your agents I get that like you know that then they they're not actually taking 1.4 million putting in their pocket I get that but still there they're still taking home a considerable sum and way more than it would take for them to pay for their own education so but I don't know Greg like do you think that that kind of ties into like do you do you see the the conversation being similar or different than the conversation around paying for performance well it's definitely not a pay-for-play system allegedly um yeah I I don't know I I this could this is gonna get into a much deeper con con conversation and I don't know if we want to get there um tonight there'll probably be time for that like in the summer but um I I at some point they they're gonna have to rein this stuff in right and and I and again we talked about a little bit last week and I think I think you're gonna you know if the NCAA is not gonna own it you know maybe Congress needs to step in at some point and and regulate this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

But um allegedly too the other thing was like this was supposed to all be um kind of being reined in because of the clearinghouse and like anything over a certain dollar value was supposed to be cleared and they were going to tighten this up and it just doesn't feel like it's being tightened up like they said it was going to be um and again it was all kind of on the honor system but like don't get caught if if you do we're gonna hammer you and now you're seeing like the penalties for out of cycle recruiting um for committing players like you you hear all this stuff but again I don't see a lot of action being done. So the and and so kind of pulling it back here to women's basketball Greg uh the transfer portal window tomorrow is that for women's basketball too or is it just men's basketball do you know they should be pretty close to one another because I think they only opened up within 24 hours so I don't think they both close at the same time. So the reason I'm saying that is because there's a specific player in NC State women's basketball's roster that to my knowledge hasn't been Camille Pierre she's locked in she already signed her paperwork was that announced no I know maybe I shouldn't I shouldn't have said anything but yeah yeah she's she's she has signed oh shoot breaking news y'all that's uh yeah I'm not naming who I got it from so I guess I'm okay but yeah yeah from from from I've heard from multiple people I can say that I've heard from four or five people that it's already happened. Okay let's go that's huge okay so now but but that being said I I mean things can I I've heard like look at football from a couple years ago when guys supposedly signed and then they were in the portal the the then you know within the couple of days um if you remember all the defensive backs that we lost what was it two years ago um so they had all signed as well but um yeah all signs point that Camille will be back next year. Well and even just using common sense Greg to your defense here too like at the end day if she hasn't put her name in the portal yet what's she waiting for like like if if she if she's gonna go she's well maybe she's a procrastinator that's maybe that's how she does her homework too she waits to last to do her homework that's how she did last year right so well she was well if you remember she's one of those people that are causing this whole out of cycle because she never she never truly entered the transfer portal um and then she kind of just showed up on campus and like here I'm here to play ball and um yeah that's big so with that being said Greg around Camille and Zoe what do you kind of predict do you I and and and Kate Kate uh Kaden Samuels as well also too now she's coming back.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

So so around that what do you see Greg? What do you see kind of happening there to fill out this roster?

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Because it needs depth yeah so a couple things that are interesting like and Lunin and Lunin Destiny Lunan yeah she came back um yeah that was um there was some some stuff there where she was kind of on the on the fence but I think once Zam went in the portal I think that kind of sh kind of solidified for her to stay um at least it feels like um because again she would have been buried on the in the depth chart um and again we've talked about this before where you know players just don't want to sit around and wait anymore there's plenty of opportunity there's money um I I get it um but uh yeah I still feel like you need a center at at this point um obviously with Tilda leaving you know you you didn't have a lot of depth there Mallory has left um can Maddie Cox play center I I don't know um to me she's more of a four um you know do you slide Camille over to play center she's she's not tall but she's got the Van Allen Lubin arms she's got a a really big wingspan um and she's kind of a dog you know as far as rebounding and all of that but I don't know if you necessarily want to put her through through that she's you know uh so you need that I don't know how many times we're gonna say this you need a shooting guard you need something but guess what they cost money and um you know if you're bringing back Pierre and you're bringing back Zoe that's gonna be a good chunk of your budget right yep um yeah and and and what do you what are you paying to retain players because if if they were making say 75000 well if you're gonna retain them you're probably gonna bump them up to a hundred thousand again just making up random numbers I have nothing you know to say that that's what what what the what the budget looks like but again typically if you're gonna keep a player you're gonna get you're gonna give them a little raise you know kind of kind of keep them keep them you know to keep them around uh to not let them be enticed to go into the portal um so how much are you paying to these other players to round out the roster how much do you have left over um right you know are there discretionary funds i i'm not so sure about that um but yeah it in in my book you need a you need a scorer and and a in a in a in a center and I you know obviously I know a few things that I don't really want to share here that you know now that I already said the Camille thing but I'm not sure we have like yes can you go get somebody yes you can go get somebody is it gonna be to the level that you want probably not right yeah no and so I I think honestly at this point locking in Zoe locking in Camille you're gonna have to find the diamond in the rough at this point.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:34

Like you're you're more likely not going to go get a stud or or a solidified option you're gonna go get some some either players that were um you know top scorers at the lower divisions or or lower conferences or you're gonna go get a bench player um you know from another school and take a shot on them. That's at this point what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Yeah at this point we don't have a whole lot of players on the roster so you need to go find some you right so you fill it out. You need to fill it out and I think right now I think we only have seven or eight on the roster um so you probably need at least four more three to four more yeah because it's if it's eight you probably you're okay with 11 probably um because you still have to have practice like unless you're running managers out there for practice. Yeah no but yeah you you you're just you're gonna have to figure this out and again this is where this is where you have to be really smart with your money. This is where a GM would maybe help maybe an analytical person to help again if you want to put some money but again the problem is if you handle it if you if you if you sign a GM and you sign an analytical person for women's basketball they cost money they don't really quote unquote make you money if you will like yes they go out and find players but they're not a direct reflection of of of value added for revenue um and and that falls on the head coach you know on top of everything else he's already doing right he or she depending on you know what program yeah so but the other question or the other thing too I want to talk about here with the portal here and this actually goes back to the men side here real quick is uh Patrick Stacy as well too I don't know if we necessarily talked about him last week but uh getting announced uh being assistant GM no no not yet not yet no what go look at his go look at his twitter profile did update well he it was updated for a minute and then it changed real quick oh interesting interesting uh gm at Snell you interesting okay yeah that's yeah uh so what what you take for that Greg what'd you take for that um like I love Patrick Stacy I think he's a great dude I think he's a really smart guy uh he's gonna be an asset from it sounded like everything that I've read in the tea leaves that he has a role within the program um I just don't think that it's been officially worked out in the whole because there was locked on our guy Grayson over there got a screenshot when it was it was it did say GM for a minute um but then it quickly came down and changed over to what you see now. But I hope in the end that that he does become the GM I I think he's you know a really smart guy. A lot of the stuff that you saw um he had a hand in as far as um doing that he's a very analytical guy he'd started up his own company and you know was kind of running that um really smart guy again like I said it was at um the Chicago White Sox for a minute doing analytical stuff and um I think he would be a great asset in that role um should they choose to for that to be his role but um yeah I hope I hope I hope that it does become him as the GM.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:53

Yeah yeah so time will tell here but yeah no so so you think that was just a little slip up Greg?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

A little Yeah I think maybe some missing communication or something or I I don't think it was anything I mean he's a great dude I I don't think it was anything you know crazy. He's definitely still around um doing things for the program. I I just don't know in what official title capacity but he's definitely out there you know helping the helping Ganey do through things and and maybe it's just a part of uh you know filling out process if Ganey's comfortable with that title for him um maybe they just got to work together a little bit just to kind of see how one another and how they work and communicate.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Yeah. So uh other than that Greg uh any other final thoughts here about basketball before make a transition here?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

No um a lot of things are going to come into focus here in the next probably 48 to 72 to 96 hours. Um lots of folks making visits zoom calls this week um more on the men's side I haven't heard a lot on the on the women's side um that's kind of and that's the other thing too about the women That I want to say, like you haven't heard a lot from the media side of the house. Um typically, and unfortunately, the the male sports kind of dominate the news headlines. Uh, and that's what you're seeing right now. Uh, you're not seeing a lot of things get out with the women um from the the the the pack prides and the well, whatever that is, pack power now or IPS. It's been kind of kind of quiet on those fronts. Um again, uh just like last year, Ganey's the new shiny tool or toy, excuse me. Um, and they're gonna get all the all the all the attention and kind of spin up the the fever, if you will. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:40

So with that being said, I did want to give another shout actually from a non-revenue perspective here to our track and field team. Uh had uh uh Sadie Engelhart uh specifically two school records and uh with it within the last two weeks. Uh um two weeks ago ran the fastest 800 meter uh time in NC State school history last week and then came back and set the 1500 meter record this weekend. Uh so again, just you know, another feather in the cap here for the track and field team and cross-country team that is uh uh you know quietly been a huge shining star for the state athletics program for the last five, six years here. So huge shout out to for sure. Um so Sandy Engelhart, congratulations, love it, keep doing what you're doing. Um, but with that being said, Greg, uh I do want to real quick.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Uh I don't know where they ended up at, but I think they uh yeah. Uh NC State Women's Golf. Uh I know they had their moment at the uh at the baseball two Sundays ago for the Masters, but uh an important you know little tidbit that was put out there that for the first time ever in program history, they advanced to match play at the ACC women's tournament, which was really impressive. They they knocked off like well, knocked off's not the right word, but they finished ahead of like some big time programs. Um were only two shots off of the third place um standings, but um through the through the first three rounds, like Stanford was like number one in the country, right? Then you had number 26 SMU, number nine Wake Forest, number 10 Duke, number 45 North Carolina North Carolina State. And then we had we finished ahead of North Carolina, who was 12, Clemson, who was 45, Virginia Tech, who was 39, and Virginia that was 33. So a hell of a showing by the women's golf uh program. And then they they did fall in match play to Duke um two two and one. So they they did play them tough, but uh yeah, they should definitely make some uh make a little bit of noise at the um nationals. I you'll you'll have some qualifiers there.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Yeah, yeah. So love it as well. Uh give a shout out to women's golf as well. Again, once again, Wolfback Nation. That that those those non-revenue sports can't sleep on them one bit. Can't sleep on them one bit here. But with that being said, before we talk some baseball here, I did want to uh pull up one video here that got a lot of uh talk on the Twitter side here, and that's uh in-state men's basketball coach Justin Gainey here doing the siren at the Hurricanes game, Greg. I don't know if you saw this video, but uh Gainey was getting supporting I support it. Absolutely, yeah. No, and and and and that was a great A performance, especially compared to the performance of our previous coach when he did the siren, which was lackluster at best for sure. Um, so you know, take that with what you will, make make what conclusions you would like out of the performances on both sides here. But man, you shout out Justin Gainey, man, leaving all in the court representing the the good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

Look at his face, man. Like he's just living his best life.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

Loving it. Loving it, living his best life.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Yeah, and then uh Mongo, who is in our chat tonight here. Um coach must have a bionic rotator cuff. Yeah, jealous. He was he was he was moving it, he was moving it.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

Well, another thing, too, as well, which is actually impressive. So I don't know if you know too, Greg, but basically that the that hurricane sir is basically attached to like a moving uh uh uh uh like wheel cart, uh, you know, so it's not like it's like screwed into the floor here. So like it's pretty common for that thing to be moving pretty pretty you know hard back and forth, especially if you're going that fast. But that thing is locked in solid too, as well. So, you know, I you know there definitely has to be a certain amount of strength here to to be able to go that fast and not you know do a number on that siren. So huge shout out to Justin Gane representing there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

How do you like they gave him his NC state number for his jersey or his sweater?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

I did not even notice that. I love that. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Yeah, yeah. That's cool. I just had to Google it to make sure I said I thought 12 was his number, so I just actually Googled it to make sure I wasn't wrong before I put that out. But yeah, nice touch, nice touch.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

Hey, think about it this way too, real quick. Like, he got the number one game, right? Like, who didn't get the number one game?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:08

Yeah, I I do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

I'll just leave it, I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:11

I I I will wait, I will wait for the day that they bring in one of those Malone, uh Malone to do the siren.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

Hey, hell Manny Diaz got game too. They didn't even give it to like the the the the newer coach over there, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Has Shire ever even done it? Has Shire ever done it?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

I don't you know me. I don't really follow the Kings like that, so I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:32

I don't think he does. That's my name.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

And they'll and they only had Velichek there in the house. He didn't actually do the siren. Yeah, so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:40

Yeah, yeah. Uh his his girlfriend declined uh the option. Uh, but uh yeah, no, but hey, you know what? Hey, how's out to Man Diaz at the end of the day? Guess what? Man, uh yeah, do your thing. Yeah, so uh anywho though, so one of the things Greg, I put out a tweet uh earlier today talking about the uh Mr. Rhett Johnson here and uh what a tear this guy has been on this season and been one of the huge bright spots of this season for sure, hitting 485 in ACC play, 32 of 66 in his first 18 conference games.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

And uh I mean first off, I I do take exception. I do take exception. You're lucky that my Twitter at work was not working properly because I was gonna quote tweet you or quote tweet the channel. Um, you said people haven't been talking about him enough. Now, you know your boy right here has been talking about him.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

I'm I'm just saying people in general, man, like like NC State nationally ACC, he's not being talked about enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

He's not correct, he's not. He that is a true statement. And the problem is is he does he doesn't hit a bunch of home runs and he doesn't have a lot of RBIs. All he does is get on base, whether it's a walk, a bunt, an infield hit, a nice drive, you know, out to the outfield, um, hit by a pitch. Like he he's found pretty much every way to get on base this year. And all he does is just get on base. Like you'll see him, and again, it's all quietly, right? And I think to your point, it kind of gets to your larger point that it's not being talked about on a national level. Um, you know, you'll just be watching a ball game, and then you'll see him on base here, and you'll see him on base there. And the next thing you know, you look in the ninth inning, he's four for four, and then he's about to get his fifth hit of the game, right? Just he just goes about it quietly, just gets gets it done. Um, just plays everything the right way. I mean, he's even old school with uh actually, I do have a funny story um that I was I was told. I normally don't share parent stories, but I think this is a good one. If you notice, he wears his pant legs kind of like bloused up and pulled up. And I was told the reason for that was is he could never find pants that fit him right uh when he was younger. So that was just the style that he went with, and it works. And look, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And uh he's an awesome ball player, just just just like old school, like just an old school kind of player. Um yeah, anyway, I I know you probably wanted to say some stuff, but he's just uh he's an all-around good dude, his family is amazing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

Yeah, no, just wanted to kind of highlight the positive before he gets to the rest of it. Uh, you know, here. But I mean, yeah, I mean it's just that go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

We better show up with a checkbook, um, because there's gonna be programs coming after him. Oh god, yes. Um, he loves NC State. NC State was one of the early um teams to show up for him. Um, but you know, it is it is still a business. Um, so we'll have to see how that plays out. But man, he can be one of the one of the good ones when it's all said and done if he's here for three years, four years, depending on how that how that shakes out for him.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:44

Well, and just a question too of uh, you know what happens the rest of the season, what happens this upcoming offseason as well within the program, too, as well. Again, this is this is don't know nothing, but this is just you know, listen, we we know it's not a matter of five, ten years of you know when Avon's gonna make a move here. Um, you know, and so what happens? Does Koach H step in? I you know, right? Who knows? We'll find out. And there's time for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

Yeah, there's time for that discussion. I mean, we're still in the middle of a race to the postseason, and you know, we we've got some work to do to set ourselves up to be it stay in to stay in the conversation. Um you know, we we we did pretty decent last week. We did we did go two and two. Um got a nice one down in the jungle. Um yeah, just smacked them. We smacked them, which was nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:36

They're ruining our strength of schedule, our strength of schedule.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:39

Well, no, actually, ECU is actually helping our strength of schedule, to be honest with you. Well, yeah, at this point, yes, at this point, yeah. Um yeah, we need to find a rain out on May 5th. Like it we need to pray for rain on May 5th. Because we're will be playing North Carolina A and T and they're like number 199, like in the RPI last time I saw, and that that will just just just destroy us unless we win like 99 to nothing. Um that's just a that's just a bad schedule. Um I would have rather had like UNC Greensboro, and they're just slightly better. No offense, Hayes. I love you. Um but um yeah, a lot of work to do. We we we I hate to say it, but it feels like this is almost a must-suite weekend. It's definitely you you you so there's four series left, right? Yeah, four series left. You probably need to win three of them to feel good about yourself. Um right now you're kind of probably tournament for NCAA tournament. Yeah, um, you're kind of in the bubble area, uh, you know, depending on you know who you subscribe to, you're looking at the RPI, looking at some of the analytics. Um, some some of these little sites again have us kind of sitting around a three-seed in a region. And so when you're sitting a three-seed from a power conference, you you're you're in bubble status. Um but uh you know, you go you you still have some opportunities, you still have Miami, you still have UNC, um you know, uh a top three, top four UNC coming to town to end the season. Uh you go win a series like that or sweep that series again, getting ahead of ourselves, but you can make some hay. Um I I so 12 games left in the conference. I feel like you gotta go seven and then five at a at the at a minimum. I feel better at eight and four. Yeah. So however you get to that number, you get to that number. But anyway, getting ahead of ourselves a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:39

So one of the interesting things that's happening this week too, Greg, though, in preparation for the Virginia Tech uh series uh at Blacksburg. There's no midweek uh game this this uh this week. Do you see that as a benefit, Greg?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Yeah, that's definitely a benefit. Um, especially hold on one second. Actually, you know, you can ask this question too. You can ask our guy, Ethan Berry. You can ask Ethan Berry this question.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:02

Um Ethan, what's up, bud?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

How are you guys? Oh, there he is. Late notice. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

No, no, no. You know, you always have an open invitation, and I'm glad you took us up on it. So anyone that's uh joining us live, we got Ethan Berry from IPS. Um the IPS baseball whisperer. Yeah, I don't know about all that now.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

And and and so I'll I'll ask so here, I'll ask the question question, Ethan. Uh that was that we were talking about here. So uh how did Wake Forest cheat and why do they do it?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:35

No, no, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:36

Uh no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

I'm just gonna no what what did what what did you guys say about it?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

We haven't we this heard the baseball conversation. Yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:45

I don't think they did. I I I I am interested to see they play UNCG at home tomorrow. I am interested to see if UNCG does the same thing. Uh that's something I'm gonna tune in. I'm gonna turn that game on specifically to see if they do that. Because I would guess that like state gave them like a hey, just so you know. Um, but to me, like the underlying numbers there, like obviously Wake Forest only scored five runs on Sunday, but like the walk and strikeout numbers were the same, the power was the same. I reached out to somebody for like chase numbers, those were the same, so I don't know. I I'm I'm skeptical. I like the idea. I'm I'm a little skeptical of it though. That's fair.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was I it was different.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:28

I just want to bring that up because there was some rumblings, and even our very own Michael Tracy decided to go ruffle some feathers and just you know, so you know, no, that was a good observation by you yesterday, Ethan, that you picked up on the uh hand signals, and uh that was definitely a first time this year that we've we've done that. First time in years, yeah, years, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:47

Well, first of all, Greg, uh Ethan didn't say that. Wolfpack stat said that. So yeah, it's true. You're getting him confused, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:54

Well, no, Ethan, Ethan doesn't hide behind Wolfpack stats. He's he's come out in public and owned that in the past.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:59

So okay. I I hey listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

We're not breaking, we're not we're not uh doxing anybody here.

unknown 1:20:04

No, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:05

I'm I'm waiting for the profile picture change then, Ethan. So let me know. Let me know if you help with one. So uh no, the actual question, uh uh, so obviously, you know, we'll talk about the series here a little bit here. But Greg, you know, was kind of getting into about how at this point V the VT series kind of seems like a must sweep. Uh, you know, we're kind of getting to that point here with only four series left in ACC. But the specific question which I was asking is it's interesting this week in the fact that you do not have a midweek game. And so do you feel like Ethan, that is a good thing, or do you think that's you know it would be nice to have that midweek game to kind of use as a reset point in preparation for the weekend series versus BT?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

Why is that, Greg? I like isn't it odd?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

Yeah, I it I first I thought maybe like uh finals coming up, but that's not this week, and and um yeah, I thought maybe finals, but it's because you've got another week when you don't have one when you go to Stanford, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

And that one maybe that one is that maybe that one's finals. That one makes more sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:06

That's normal. Yeah, that is finals week.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:10

Look, a state needs all the RPI help they can get. Um like you've got NCA and T coming up in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

I just mentioned that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

You've got to find a way to get out of that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

I was praying for rain right before you came on. I said I pray for rain on on Cinco de Mayo.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

Like, or we give them we go through this every year, it's ridiculous that this is still a thing. Right Michigan, I was getting ready to say that. Yeah, they canceled their game against that to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

No, no, I saw they canceled their game against uh Dayton, right? And they picked up Miami, Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

I I I mean, look, with your pitching situation, you're probably better off not having one, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

You you need Hemerick on Sundays, you don't have Marone.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

Uh you wouldn't have had Ryder for Tuesday either.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:55

Yeah, or and probably not even Nance, right? Um, so and and you can mash your way past NCA and T if you end up playing that game. But if you're playing, you like you need to be playing a good team that would help your RPI, and just you know, you got ECU next week, that's gonna be a real test, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Um so well, and that goes to that point, right? Like, how like yeah, and we you you and I have talked about this. Like, do you punt Sundays, right? I think you can punt Sundays if you win the first two games. Um, but if you're in like you know, 0-2, 1-1, you gotta go out and play hard Sunday. And you know, you saw their their approach this past weekend on Sunday with Brider and Nance, and that's two of your better arms. Like, do you end up punting in the midweek then if you if if not?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:46

Well, and that's why it's you really only have one midweek left, and that's why it is kind of beneficial. Yeah, uh, like you said, I mean you should be able to beat ATT, ATT, AT like 19 to 15 if you really have to, you know. So the the and your back end arm should be able to get those outs anyway. So yeah, um, yeah, I I mean, like you said, like I and I don't view it as like a punting Sunday. I view it as you punt if you fall behind, which is really what we saw on Friday and Saturday and Saturday. I mean you know, state went to Aiden Kitchings. Now I thought they had opportunity if they pulled Consiglio earlier. Yeah, it was by four. Right. Could you have gone to Nance? Could you have gone to Garino? It was gonna be one of those type of games. Obviously, they didn't, they end up going to Kitchings, which well, why would you waste them if they got your pitchcom?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:33

I'm just kidding. Right, I'm just kidding. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:37

Um, but yeah, I I don't know. I mean, it's it's it's tough. And the other thing is some of these guys gotta be better too. Like you're gonna need outs from them, and some of them are good against ECU. Um, and maybe again from that perspective, maybe the pitchcom was a real thing. And if it is, and you come out and you hold Virginia Tech to seven runs this weekend, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

Yeah, I have you been to Wake Forest before? Have you been to that ballpark before? My god, that's a small damn. Like I thought, I thought Foley Field when we went to Georgia a few years ago was small. This was this was tiny, it's like 300 down the lines, man. And again, 310, yeah. Yeah, 310, and I think it's three three ten and one and three hundred, maybe three ten and both. I can't remember, but even deep center is 500, or if not 500, 400. Um, what with the stupid hill? Like, I didn't realize they had a hill in that ballpark uh on the warning track. Um, they do, yeah, yeah. It's like a little, it's like a slight incline. It's not it, it was not as bad as what Houston used to have at Minute Made or whatever the hell they call it now. Yeah, um, but it there is a there is a slight embankment, if you will. Um, but we played in the same ballpark and we couldn't lift the ball to save our life.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:46

No, yeah, yeah, and that's why you know it was it was frustrating because we've seen state hit for power, like that had come back the last few weeks, and what it was it, one home run, Mikey Ryan. And I mean, it wasn't even like they were close, like there wasn't anything up in the air. Um, and again, you know, look at Wake Forest outs, like even their outs, there were a lot of fly ball outs for Wake Forest. They had a clear goal of of getting the ball in the air, and some of them were bobs, some of them were, you know, I I think the one that one on Saturday was like a 50-degree launch signal, which is a pop-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:16

Yeah, but it was yeah, the one that the one that I think the one that went to left field that yeah, I mean there were a few. I think they there was one yesterday that was a pop-up too.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

Yeah, there was a few that were pop-ups. I think most of them were legit, but as you said, state played in the same ballpark and didn't hit them. So um, you know, yeah, we've seen state take advantage of that ballpark many times.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:38

Yeah, yeah. We were talking right before you jumped on, we were talking about Rhett Johnson and and and why he's gonna be the ACC freshman of the year, right? Like, yeah, uh do you I mean, I know you follow some of the other teams a little bit more than I do. Like, do you see another freshman out there in the ACC that is kind of putting up those again? What I said, you know, and I'll let you chime in with your thoughts. Like, what's holding him back is his home runs and RBIs. But again, that's not his, that's not what he is, right? And some of and some of that's too the lower end of the lower half of the lineup isn't producing a lot in order for Rhett to drive them to drive him in. You know, when you look at seven, eight, and nine, whatever combination that is, that's not a great on-base percentage, high K rate. Um, but so those are the two factors that I again, because these voters, let's be real, they're not looking at the deep analytics. They're a lot of them are looking at raw numbers and and and and and um superficial numbers. But but tell me, like, do you see anyone else in the league, Ethan, that's kind of doing what he's what Rhett's doing? And he keeps getting better, by the way. Like it no, yeah, like he hasn't dropped off an ACC play, which is typically what you see.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:44

Yeah, he's better. Yeah, no, he's yeah, so t Teddy Tokheim, I guess, is the second best. I I mean I say second best, he does have a 1200 OPS in in the ACC. Um, and he's got 10 home runs. So, you know, if you were to look past batting average, I do think he would be. I mean, he's got 22 extra base hits.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

Um Brett's probably got like five.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:09

Uh yeah, Rhett has 10. Oh well, but more than that. But no, I I I do think it's probably Rhett's to lose. Um I I think Tokim is having a good enough year to where like Rhett can't necessarily take his foot off the gas. But I mean the batting average and on the who does he pay play for too? Who does he play for? Uh Stanford. Which won't help this case.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:29

Yeah, yeah. So sometimes that'll cause that'll come down to like okay, who played on the better team and who had protection and so on and so forth. Yeah, yeah. Um Leighton, uh, do you want me to ask some questions or you want to ask questions? Because I don't want to like ignore you because I still love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:47

I want to get to my I want to get to Marone here eventually because I think that's the question everybody's freaking out about right now is is is you know, and obviously, you know, there's it's it's it's we can do around now.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:58

No, go ahead. We can do around now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:00

Well, so I mean again, it's it's it's injury stuff, you know, it's you know I don't know. Just I I guess I'll say this. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:09

They have him listed as week to week, right? So there's a hope. If you if you're listed as week to week in in that the staff is being truthful and honest on this, which we have no reason not to believe. Sure. Like like there's a chance for him to be back, right? Um like if you're going week to week, obviously week to week is week to week, but with it being Marone and being a pitcher and being his draft year, I would hope they would be more on the precautionary side and um not rush him back, right? For those reasons. And like state, like people want to talk in social media um and say what they want to say, but like I always feel that the staff does the pitchers right. Like, I don't feel like they put them in jeopardy. Um, I've had folks come out and say, like, yeah, like I've worked with the team before. If there's a sign of an arm injury, they're shutting them down. Like they're not, they don't play with arm injuries. Like, that's a pretty serious thing. But Ethan, what are your kind of what are your thoughts on on Marone and week to week and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:09

Yeah, I mean, that's more up your alley, but I don't know what you're talking about, sir. I I think you do have you're right, you gotta be careful. You know, you just you kind of have to. Um you've got to be able to pitch to parents and agents now, uh high school coaches, that you're gonna take care of their kids. And you know, if you're to if you are going to um throw a pitcher out there when you know, as you mentioned, three months before he's drafted, you're gonna have some explaining to do. Like you've you've got to be certain that he's 100% healthy, and you know Marone's gonna want to go out there. You you know that. And states state's better with him out there, obviously. No question about that. State's got a chance to win a regional with him.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:51

I don't know, like I'm it's a lot tougher without him.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:55

It's a lot tougher. Oh, it's tough.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:57

Uh I mean, I know we're homers, but we can't even homer that like into truth. Like, it's you it's significantly different. Like, you felt really good with both Dude and Marone, and then you lose dude and you're like, Well, we still got Marone, like you can go out and win game one. Because again, this staff, you have to win game one. You you probably have to win game two to feel really good about advancing in a in a regional. Um, I just anything less, uh, it's an uphill battle, especially after you saw what you saw this past weekend. If if the what we saw was legit, not damn forget.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:31

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

But yeah, I I think you can get by with just Marone in a regional. I really do agree. I agree. Um, now you've got you've got to manage things correctly. You need Consiglio to throw well, you need a good start from Heath Andrews. Um, but you you can get there. There's no doubt you can get there. You you need a good matchup, you need a good draw.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:49

You can a good ballpark.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:51

Yeah, yeah. But his health has to come first. I mean, you're looking at like a you're looking at a seven-figure payday, no doubt, a couple months away. And you've got to be able to go sell to the next guy, whether it's in the portal, whether it's in high school, whether it's a player on your current roster who has other options. You've got to be able to sell, hey, we're going to take care of your guy. We're going to prioritize his health above all else. And um, you know, it it the timing is certainly unfortunate, but um, you know, if you if you handle it correctly, you know, hopefully it can it can pay off on the field and long term. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:26

With the with uh you know the Virginia Tech series, Greg, compared to the other series that are still coming up here in this regular season, do you expect there's a more than likely if he is week to week that you're more likely not gonna see him against Virginia Tech?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:41

I would be I would put Ethan's paycheck on it that we don't see him this weekend. Okay. That's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:49

Like, is it like is he actually week to week? Like it I don't think anybody buys that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:53

Yeah, I don't think week to week per se. Um, but I don't see it being like a two, I don't see it. I had to be careful here. Um I don't see it a month to month injury. How about that, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:06

Like I don't see let me phrase it to you this way you've got four weeks of ACC play left. Yeah, then you've got the ACC tournament. So you're playing in a regional and it's Monday night, so you're playing in a regional in five weeks and five days, basically, four days, whatever. That regional can't be the first start back. I don't even know that the ACC tournament can be the first start back. So to me, you've got until the last week of the regular.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

Who says you have to start him? That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:36

I don't know why if he's available, I don't know why he wouldn't start.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:40

Um that's fair too. I I'm just I know nothing. I'm just throwing it out there. Like, like you could make that and I know you make this argument, right? You've made this argument about Nance a few weeks ago. Like, well, if he was available, what why didn't you just bring him out in the knife instead of bringing him in halfway through the knife? Again, that was in the the Notre Dame, you know, kerfuffle, if you will. Right. Um no, I yeah, you're right though. He has to see some kind of live action.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

Um like it's UNC the last week of the year, is that right? That's correct. He's got a pitch in that series, he has to.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:12

Yes. Well, especially if you look at it, this would be his last series in an NC State uniform at the Doke. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:19

And I mean, we can't even take for granted making the tournament. I mean, you you know, you may need to throw him to there just to make it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:25

Well, and I think that has a lot to play with it too, as well. In in that, in my opinion, you kind of let the Virginia Tech series play out. If it plays out as you expect it to, then you know, if things are looking positive in his development, then great. Let's see where we can fit him back in before uh that AC tournament. But if it goes south, then you know, what really more are you, you know, you're you're okay. Now you're playing behind the eight ball in terms of making the NCAA tournament, and you know, you're in a huge uphill battle. And like, you know, do you even risk with with Marone with everything that he has to to play for with his uh you know professional career coming up here as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:06

So it's just well, and if he comes in, like is he gonna be on a pitch count, right? Like I would assume he probably would be on some kind of pitch count. Um like he's not he's definitely not coming back in his first start back, whatever that looks like, whenever that is, and throw 116 pitches. And yes, I said 116 pitches because well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:26

Yeah, oh Greg. Yeah, man. Look, look, I love the pokes we're we're we're we're implementing during this during this baseball part here, man. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:35

I have the I have my most fun with baseball, but no, he has to yeah, I think he has to have some kind of action. Um, I don't know, like Ethan depends on like where we're at in the ACC tournament. Like, you know, if we're in a position where we're probably not gonna win it, like if we're like a eight, nine, ten seed, which could happen depending on how the next couple of weeks play out, because there's some bunching there and tiebreakers. Um, maybe you do throw them out there um just to get them some exposure. Again, I don't know. Like, like honestly, don't even know if you'll even be ready then. Um, and if that's the case, I would think you would probably shut them down and you wouldn't throw them in a regional again. I that would be some serious discussions that would have to be had with the player, the family, doctors, all of that stuff, right? I think you'd have to have some serious conversations. Uh is it is is the juice worth the squeeze on on it at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:30

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, it's you know, and hopefully it doesn't get to that point. Hopefully it's I mean, even if you're looking at like we're calling it week to week, right? Even if it's three, four weeks, like again, that's that gives you a little bit of a buffer. That gives you two potential starts headed into the and into regionals, and you know, if you end up you you know, if you throw them against UNC that last week of the year, and then even if it's a short outing the next week in the ACC tournament, which again I I I can't imagine that states in a situation where they don't have anything to play for there, like I I just think the RPI, they're they're gonna have to find ways to help it. And uh I you know the ACC tournaments, either you're gonna play somebody who's gonna drag you down, or you're gonna have play somebody who is a real opportunity to uh to help yourself out. So right.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:18

Um yeah, depending on where you're but yeah, right, to your point, right? If you're if you're a six seed, you're gonna probably play someone that's gonna drag you down. But if you're an eight or nine, you're gonna play someone that could potentially give you a little bump.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:31

But again, I don't know if you want to be playing with that fire in either situation. No, real quick, let's move on. Real quick, go ahead, Leighton.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:38

Well, no, I was gonna say, real quick, uh, and this is this is for the true fans are listening now that were listening back when we started this conversation, Greg, at the at the beginning of this podcast. The other reason why the Stanley Cup is the hardest game to win is because overtimes you play until somebody scores. And I don't care if it's three periods, four periods.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:55

Well, baseball's the same way. I mean, hell, there was a game this past weekend that ended on a damn bulk in the 18th inning. Oh, like I mean, how that's brutal, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:05

That's a brutal way to live. Brutal, brutal. Um, but go ahead, Greg.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:09

Get like we don't win yesterday without Ryder Greeno throwing the way he's gonna bring him up.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:15

Love that my boy Ryder, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:16

Yeah, Ryder. He he can do it in a like what do you think is more important? Ryder out of the pen or rider starting a midweek game?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:31

Well, again, I I think midweeks are tough because you really you have one left.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

We have one left, yeah. That's true. I don't know if you're talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:38

I that would probably be my answer. And I've always been a guy who really values the midweeks. I mean, think about where state is without some of these midweek wins. Like you have a win over ECU, you have two wins against UNCW, you play against Coastal. One against Coastal, yeah. That's their the best win of the year. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, right there with Fort State, but anyway. Um if it was beginning of the year, I would say midweek. At this point, yeah, you've you've got one left. I think it's trouble then.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:06

That's fair. But to to his point, I mean, he was great yesterday. Um, this is another one he pitched really well against Notre Dame a few weeks ago. Very similar kind of stat line. Um, his only blemish was a home run, a solo shot. Again, I I I I put a put a post out earlier, and I once I sent it, I was like, eh, that didn't really phrase right. And I said he was really good except for the lone home run he gave up. But again, that was a pop-up at the doak. Like, so it was a it was an unfortunate ballpark situation. Um, but he was just really good yesterday. He if we if he doesn't pitch like that yesterday, we don't come back and win. I mean, he held those bats um pretty silent and gave us a chance to kind of claw our way back into it. Um, kind of like I felt like too, like Ryder's gotten better as the season has gone along. Um, how would you assess that too, Ethan?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:56

Yeah, yeah. He I mean he's been excellent. Um, he he's stepped up. It it was we like he wasn't you know going into uh to the season into ACC play, even like he was down the list. He was behind Nance, he was behind Collins Black. I think he was even behind some of the other guys, and I know you know we talked about it uh a little bit, like there were some reasons for that uh slow start why he wasn't as available early on. But yeah, once he's kind of gotten into the groove, like he's surpassed pretty much everybody. I mean, you could make the case at this point that he's better, he's been better than Nance this season. Now, again, like if the game's on the line, I still want Nance out there. I agree, but Gorino's been right there, and you know, the way I view it, you need five, maybe six pitchers in a regional. There's no doubt he's he's one of those five guys. And look, even without Marone, I think State has their six. Yeah, actually, it would be five, six with Marone. But I I have I have a ton of faith in Garino. His fastball, it's only 88 to 90, but it's deceptive. It's it's deceptive. Um, and it plays up from where it is, you can tell that. I think it's a it's a low release height for him. Uh it moves, um, and his ability to miss bats at that velocity is really, really impressive. So yeah, um he he's been he's been excellent. He's taken a big step forward from where he was last year at South Carolina, where he showed some flashes, but he he's been really, really good for state. And like you said, if they if they're gonna do anything in a regional, they're gonna need and they've been getting this every week from him at this point. It's a couple innings, two, three. Yesterday was three and a third, which I thought was kind of an inning too long, but it ended up working out. Um he he's been nails every time.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:38

Yeah, I mean, he's got the second lowest ERA on the staff at 333. Um, he's not qualified just because he just hasn't had enough appearances. But you were talking about his velocity. I think he's a guy, he's got a frame where if you can put on another 15 pounds or so of muscle, you could see it up taking his VLO by you know two or three miles an hour, um, which could put him in a in a good range. Um, he's you know still working his way back from some stuff that you know he he he has to put the weight back on. Um, but yeah, if he's a guy that you can kind of keep, um, I feel like you can even slot him into your starting rotation next year. Uh again, depending on you know if you're able to retain him.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:15

Under your head, what's your starting rotation next year right now? Oh, it should be easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:20

Yeah, yeah. Um obviously you're gonna go with Luke Hammerick, he was probably your number one. Um, well, does Nance come back?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:31

You tell me, Greg.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:34

If Nance comes back, he's probably your number one guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:37

Greg, it's April 20th. I really don't like that. You're putting an if on that right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:41

You don't know, man. Like, you know, there's you know, again, does Avant come back? If Avant doesn't come back, who who doesn't want to be here? Um, like who again, who becomes the head coach? Are they able to return? There's too many the the what if game sucks, Ethan, and you know this.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:56

Yeah, um, but what but you're playing that with him and not with Hemrick.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:02

Mmm, look at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:04

I think, well, okay, so inside baseball, both his parents went to state. Hemricks, both of Henrick's parents went to state. He's an Apex kid. I think you have a better chance of root retaining him than than Nance. Not to say that Nance is an absolute yes or no. Like, again, and I hate this because I love everybody on the staff. Um and so assuming that I you you have Hemrick, you have Nance. I could see maybe yeah, that's too easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:35

The third one is a little up in the air. I think I could see Greeno, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:39

I could see Sam Harris. Um you know, what does Aiden Kitchens come back with? Um who was the other freshman? Oh no, Hemrick is the other freshman. Yeah. Um, yeah, so that's what I could foresee. But again, that's so far in the future. Um DH. Let's talk DH for a minute.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:00

We'll do this last this last topic, Greg, and then I want to jump over and wrap this thing up here. But go ahead, Greg. Yeah, let's jump into DH here.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:07

We have to find something at DH that's that's sustainable. Um something.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:12

Or like I mean, like you have a lot of some things. That's the problem, though. You just you have a lot of some things.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:17

Would you I I just I mean, it whoever it is, right? Whether it's Bargo, whether it's Wiggins, whether it's Novi, someone just has to take that and run with it. And I just feel that the opportunities that you've given all three, none of them have just just wowed you. Um they've all done a little bit of something. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but no one's been consistent and no one's just kind of ran with it. But I also want to say on the flip side, like, has the coaches really truly given someone to run with it? Because again, when you see Novi or Wiggins in there at DH, they tend to pinch hit for them when a pitching change happens. So Ethan, just kind of like, are we gonna figure are we gonna figure seven, eight, nine out? I'll even take it even bigger than that.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:04

I think State has their answer. Like, I I I don't I don't see anything changing at this point. No, and it's frustrating. This goes back to last year, too. This this was the same exact problem. You didn't pick a DH last year. And you had Ryder Woodson sitting on the bench. You had Jet Gilliam. What one of my suggestions last year, put Jet Gilliam in the outfield and DH Josh Hoke. Do not go look at what Jet Gilliam has done at Utah this year. Don't don't look. Don't look or Ryder Woodson. Or well, what we knew about Woodson.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:35

Um, you know, he's obviously he's more of a third baseman. Yeah, he's more of a third baseman. We've also had a high profile school, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:42

Um I think we've been fine. I think we've been fine at short and third. Like that's not the reason. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:49

Yeah, for sure. Um it's more it's more about last year, but anyway. Um I I think state has their answer. I think it's a platoon. Bargo will start. It's weird that they've like, and I know I'm the Andrew Wiggins guy. It's just weird. Like, if you don't want to play him, don't play him. Like, don't halfway like, oh, we're gonna play him sometimes, we're gonna pinch it for him in the middle of the at bat. And credit to Ava, that that move ended up working out. Um I forsaken.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:17

I told you to Carlo yesterday, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:20

Yeah, that was a that was a really good move. It paid off. I I don't like people act like Andrew Wiggins just has like this huge strikeout problem. He did. It's like a sub-20% strikeout rate. I think he struck out like once or twice an ACC play. Yeah, um, so if you're not gonna play like, hey, you have your reasons for not playing him, cool, don't play him. But also don't like half-heartedly not play him. They think Bargo, if Bargo's the guy, Bargo's the guy. Platoon him and Novi. Um, and I think that's that's what it is. It's Novi against a lefty and bargo against a righty, and then if you end up going back to a righty, you'll see Wiggins. Um, you mean righty pitcher?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:57

You're talking about the righty pitcher, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:00

Um I don't know if you guys talked about the Sherman Johnson injury. That that really limits again, not that like it. I'd say it limits your options, but we haven't seen Wyatt Piffer at all, so I don't think that was really under consideration. He had a good munt.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:12

He had a good bunt.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:13

He had a good bunt, yeah, and he'll be really solid defensively for you at third base. Um, like I I Braden Frasman, I mean, you've played him for a year and a half, he's been the same exact guy for a year and a half.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:24

By the way, it it it doesn't take a genius to look at the scout, just throw him off speed, like a slider, a curveball, and in the left-handed batter's box, he's got a swing at it every time. It just is it's it's rinse and repeat when you see his pitch selection, everything he sees. It's like you know, a fastball out of the zone, you know, maybe a breaking ball, and then some kind of sweeper, and he just goes and fishing for it every time. Like it reminds me of the movie Um A League of Their Own, and she's like like lay off the high one. It's just like hag nag, you know. It's that's the that's the exact sequence of what Brandon Fraseman is. It's like lay off of it, you know, and every time it's just you know, anyway. That's my that's my rant for the night. Well, actually you know what really grinds my gears. Yeah, Frezeman chasing balls. Like yesterday he chased one and then hit it back to the pitcher, and I was like, holy cow, he actually made contact, but again, it was just to the pitcher. Um, it's just like if he could just lay off that pitch, like I know it's so easy for us that you know, the fat guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:22

Easier said than done, for sure. Yeah, yeah, easier said than done. Yeah, yeah, but I I I I again I don't know what the alternative is there. Like played anybody else. Like, I I don't see that happening now.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:34

So well, and again, you value his glove a lot, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:38

Like glove has been good, and and I I think he deserves credit for that. I did I think last from uh the jump that he's made from last year to this year, I think he's he deserves credit for that. He's much better defensively. Um, and I think that's a big reason why you're okay leaving him out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:54

Yeah, so fellas, uh, one thing I did want to bring up before we wrap this up here, which uh Greg, I'll give you an opportunity. Any final thoughts, comments here on baseball here before I move us off of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:05

Yeah, Ethan, you kind of rolled your eyes when I said we had to go 3-0 this weekend. Do you disagree?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:10

Yeah, I disagree.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:11

Yeah, okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:12

Yeah, Virginia Tech's top 50 in RPI. Like, this is a series where yeah. Um, and it's weird, they're like 19 to 19 overall, um, which is weird. Like it was I was watching, I don't know if you guys saw the the D1 projected field, but they had Virginia Tech in the field, and then they were like, wait a second, they're under 500. Um, but their RPI is so good, it's just kind of like okay. So from an RPI perspective, this should help state. I mean, if you win two out of three, you're gonna your RPI is gonna jump again, even one out of three, your RPA, your RPI might may jump. So no, I I don't feel the need for a sweep. Certainly, a sweep would give you some breathing room, no doubt. Where I think at that point you could definitely start to feel confident about state uh definitively being in a regional.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:54

But uh yeah, the only reason I said sweep is because statistically, even with their decent RPI, it's gonna get tougher with Miami and Carolina, even though you have those two at home. And you do have Stanford, and they're not necessarily good by any stretch of imagination, but you got to go across the country to play that series.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:12

Well, and you played them at the end of the year last year.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:14

Yeah, so we did not do well, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

So and that's why I think it's the breathing room, really more than anything. And yeah, again, state really even 14 and 16. If the RPI is where it needs to be, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:28

But here's my thing I don't want to leave it up to a committee to choose our fate.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:32

Agree. Yeah, agree. But again, then you go back to the non-conference schedule where you you're you're do you're doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:38

Yeah, and we had a much better RPI in 22 when we got left out. Yeah, true. So, what is the committee looking for? So that's why I'm that's the reason. Yeah, you like yes, you don't technically have to have a sweep, but I feel like if you're gonna gain momentum, this is a great way to do it because you're on the road against against a team. Um and you you're not gonna have like this. Easier of an opportunity. Not easy, but easier.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:03

Sure. Now, quick question here. Uh and Ethan, since you're our guest here, I'll let you let you answer or answer first. But what kind of uh uh reception do you think Alex Sosa will get when he returns to Doke?

SPEAKER_02 1:50:18

Um it's weird. Like I feel like those transfers have just kind of become the norm. Like, and I and you know it's tough that that's what it's turned into, but I I don't know. And you know, baseball's hard. Like, how many diehards are there like us? You know, like where it's like how many people are you 3,000 people will be at the game. How many of those people are gonna know who Alex Sosa is? You know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:42

Well, and I'll I'll take it one step further. We don't take baseball as serious. Like if Alex Sosa played for ECU and went back to ECU, he'd have hell on his hell on his hands. If he played for Georgia Tech, Clemson, any of those teams where they take like like you've been saying the take the fans take baseball serious and student sections actually show up and give the opposing team all they can get. Like, yeah, I I I don't think it's gonna be anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:10

He'll probably get some like light blues. A couple, a couple, yeah. I don't I don't see it being now.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:15

If he goes and and hits four home runs and you know hits for a cycle or something like that, then yeah, people will remember his name really fast.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:22

But if he does something to too, we should have kept him over Lamphier. If he does something to instigate, I guess I could see that. Uh he's that's not his style. Yeah, if not, I I think it'll be fine. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:37

So now, Greg, since we brought up one last uh uh topic I want to bring up that goes really great with our second segment.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:44

You know what really grinds my gears?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:46

Is that it's always it's always been my tradition every single year, Greg, whenever it happens, was that football games during the military appreciation game, and they will call off the uh the halftime show performance, specifically the the the plane jumpers, uh, because of of winds. And it's like, what wins? Like, like it's it's barely even breezy here. Like, what do you mean? And now, Greg, unfortunately, I'll never again be able to complain about that and say, you know, they should go out there because man, you could go viral on Twitter. I mean viral to the point of I I looked it up, I had to see four different angles of it in order to make sure it wasn't AI generated, honestly. And for those that are living under a rock, they don't know what I'm talking about. During the spring uh game of Virginia Tech, there was uh uh a what's the technical word? Paratrooper. Paratrooper, thank you. A paratrooper that uh banged that banged into the front of the Virginia Tech uh football scoreboard and actually got caught up there. Um and yeah, man, that that went everywhere. But I I I I was I was I the only one I thought that was AI generated at first. Was that the only one?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:01

Um I didn't think it was AI generated, but again, nothing surprises me if it would have been. Um but when I saw when I saw like five or six different camera angles or different people posting a different version of it, then then that was the key. Like, no, it's not AI, but no, that was that was that was pretty serious stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:20

Um he could have been seriously injured.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:23

Yeah, yeah. He busted the hell out of that seat.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:26

Like, is he gonna get a bill for that?

unknown 1:53:28

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:30

Well, somebody somebody's getting the stern talking to, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:32

I don't know who, but somebody hey, what is James Franklin thinking? Like, dude, this is the start of my tenure here at Virginia Tech. Like, it literally is literally hanging in the balance. Like the dude is up 300 feet or whatever. I don't know, it wasn't 300 feet, but um, I actually was told a funny story over the weekend yesterday by one of the parents, um, Brent Morris, who is Caden Morris's dad. He was telling me that years and years ago, the Grateful Dead were playing at Carter Finley, and they ordered a uh a similar thing with the paratrooper guys jumping into the Carter Finley to get the concert started. And they called in and said, No, man, like the wind's really bad, there's thunderstorms, like we're not we're not jumping. And the promoter or whatever is like, no, bro, like we paid you, you're gonna jump. And apparently they jumped, never landed in Carter Finlay. Apparently, they landed in Carrie. Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:25

How long ago was this?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:27

Uh Grateful Dead, so it's probably like late 70s, early 80s, I would imagine. But uh, and you if you think about it too, like 70s and 80s in the Raleigh area, like it wasn't as developed as it was, and lots of farms and trees. So, like, I don't even know where in Carrie they supposedly landed, but uh yeah. Um the wind wind will take you when you are in one of those uh little sales.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:49

Parts of carry aren't far from there either.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:50

No, they're not. No, because you oh you have over like where the Bass Pro Shop is, that's just up the road from Carter Finley, not too too far, but uh, but still it's it's pretty funny to to think about it in those terms. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:02

But hey, uh and uh well it didn't help either the case too. When I thought it was AI generated, when right before that, I saw there was a video going around that the bus and the boys uh quote tweeted with uh the Oklahoma Sooners entrance where all the guys were going through the smoke and one of the guys tripped and they just had like a dog pile like in the middle of the smoke and stuff. And and apparently that was from actually a couple years ago, but apparently actually was a thing, but it was just a couple years ago that that happened. But uh, you know, so again, it's just it's just a day, it's just the day and age we live in, Greg. You know, it's just is it AI generated? Is the first question. Uh so anywho though. So Ethan man, uh, I mean, I shared something that that really grinds my gears. Greg shopped in that shared something really grinds his gears. Do you have anything, Ethan, you want to share about that really grinds your gears?

SPEAKER_02 1:55:52

Oh man, put me on the spot. Um and it can't be about Wiggins.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:57

What and here, let me let me set you up, Greg. Let me set you up, Ethan. So here you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:00

You know what really grinds my gears? Mid-count pitching changes.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:06

Oh, that's a good one. That's a really good one. State does that a lot, both offensively and defensively. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:12

And and so why? Is it is it more of just like finish what you started, or I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:18

It's more about like set your guys up for success. I I think that's how I would describe it. Like help them out. Pull pull a pitcher preemptively, you know, before they get into trouble. Don't wait for them to get in trouble. Um if they're ready to start account, like obviously we saw Duden got pulled, you know, mid-count. That was a different situation. But it's just it seems like every pitching change is like mid-count. It's like you wait to see how the bat starts and then you go from there. But no, I I don't know. Like, you know, Avent's always done it, like it just kind of is what it is. I and it feels like it it's worked out many times, actually. But uh obviously the move to DeCarlo uh might have won in the game yesterday. Um but yeah, in general, it's just not it's not as aesthetically pleasing for me, which of course doesn't matter at all. But uh I don't know. That was just that was the first thing that came to mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:09

It's funny though, right? It's like you have faith in your guys to finish the finish finish the fight, if you will, but you also have faith in your guys to finish the fight if they get inserted after the fact. You know what I mean? Like it's just one of those weird things. Um, yeah, and you see it with the pitching too. It's like you have guy at first and second, and you think, okay, they can work themselves out of it, and then they throw four pitches and it's four balls, and now you have bases loaded, and now you have to bring someone else in, and they have to be perfect uh in order to get out. And I know we've seen that a couple of times this year where the first guy it's taken them a batter or two to get settled in, but they end up walking a guy or two, and now you've given up a run or so, and it's just like it's so frustrating. And um, yeah, I I'm I'm with you on the that that grinding my gears. That's a that's a really good one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:57

So that being said, Wolfpack Nation. Uh, if you want to go and uh uh uh you know follow Ethan for sure and uh even support him as well. Make sure to go to his, I guess now publicly knowing Twitter page Wolfpack stats.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:10

Can I pause one quick because what's that? I I have a question for Ethan, and I wasn't able, I was at work and I was gonna watch it this evening and I just hadn't got there. You got Patreon?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:19

Yeah, I just started a Patreon up this week, yeah. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:23

When do I get my free access? Like, when do I get my one free week trial?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:26

I gotta figure out how that works. I'm pretty sure there's a free trial up um for everybody, but I gotta figure out how free access works. I'm still trying to uh sort through it, but yeah, I'm trying to put something up every uh uh Monda every day, Monday through Friday. So we'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:42

Uh if you ever want someone to hop on, man, I'll always yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:45

I'm working on setting up a guest. I'm trying to get somebody, I'm trying to get like a pretty big name from inside the athletic department to start. So um, and then we'll kind of go from there. I'm just kidding. You're not inside the athletic department, Greg. So I mean I might as well be at this. Yeah, I'm close. No, but we'll definitely we'll definitely be be getting some some guests on for sure. So um, and then like I said, daily videos that aren't even like podcasts, it's just kind of like screen recording as I'm talking through what I see. Um, and then we'll do like podcasts other than that, too. So yeah, Patreon just got it started, NC State stats. So uh yeah, you go. I'm trying I'm on here promoting you. You're not even on here promoting yourself. I'm on here promoting you. I know, I appreciate it. Um yeah, 15. I'm trying to keep it to 15 minutes, so then baseball I went 25 minutes, of course. So of course a state gets outscored by 20 runs in in three games, but uh well it's it's a it's a minute for every run.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:36

I get it. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:40

Uh yeah, it it's like the it's it's like the SEC shorts episode where it's like uh um uh you know, like the where the the guys like went to the uh the drive-thru and ordered and and and uh they're lsu fans and they're like they're like you know, I'd like to order the tiger nuggets. And like, well, we don't really uh recommend ordering tiger nuggets. Why? It's well it's one nugget for every every rushing yard that that the tigers had, and they had like negative rushing yards that game, so it was a funny poke. Same thing. Yeah, exactly. You could run it run a special, Ethan, you know, for for one week only you get you get access for for 10 cents for every run that's I would do a dollar, I would do a dollar for each person on the LSU basketball roster, but then you wouldn't make any money.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:23

They're up to one now. Oh, they have the one? Okay, I missed one. They got one today.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:26

All right, yeah, I saw Tiger Bates tweet out something like like uh it was like a GIF and or a GIF. No, no, I'm not gonna get into that. Uh and it was like it was like it was like, oh man, LSU is about to make a splash.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:38

And I'm like, well, okay, well, I'm not I'm not dancing on Will Wade's grave yet in that regard. I I think they may end up with Mika Muren and Ann Ryan Hampton. We'll see.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:49

Hey, they could they hey but then why didn't they why didn't they have PJ Haggerty, Ethan? Hey, he PJ said no to him twice.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:56

He did say no to him twice. Oh, I don't know if he said no last year.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:00

But uh you know, but it's just interesting though. Like that that like in my opinion, that was that seemed like a layup option for for Wade to get PJ, but it didn't happen. So it did.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:10

We'll we'll see. And I know you guys talk basketball, I'm not gonna re-hash it, but no, go for it. I really like what Gainey's doing. I like I like you know the Paul McNeil situation, we'll see, but I like what I'm seeing from from Justin Ganey in terms of roster building, which was my biggest question.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:26

Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:27

Yeah, we'll give you two minutes. You got anything else? Go ahead. Okay, give it to me. I always love Ethan's takes. Like we talk all the time. Um, Ethan's my Ethan's my official Twitter battle buddy. Um, so he's always got good takes.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:39

Yeah, I well, I I mean I love the two guards, right? I mean, you start there, Hammond and uh Edmade. I mean, just in terms of a shooting perspective, and if you add McNeil, I don't know what you guys said about McNeil. I wasn't able to be on.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:51

Basically, we said it's after 10 o'clock, should or get off the pot.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:55

Oh, yeah, yeah, no question. I mean, come on, man. Yeah, I didn't know if you guys had talked, like it seems like somebody put out today, Greg, all your burner buddies seemed like they had something.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:05

Oh, we talked about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:06

Oh, we talked about it. Um, which I I maybe I guess I don't know, it hasn't happened yet. So um I those guys have jumped the gun before, so we'll see. But um, I mean that's as as good of a shooting trio as you'll find in the country.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:20

Let me ask you this though, real quick. What's your what what number would you be comfortable giving him? We're way past that point.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:27

I I would have drawn the line at two million.

unknown 2:02:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:30

Yeah, someone in the chat said two million earlier.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:32

I would have drawn the line at two million.

unknown 2:02:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:35

Just because of what we're constrained at?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:38

No, not even that. I just like you need to see you need to see more. Like, he's a great shooter. He's a great shooter, and I think he could potentially stick it take a step forward with the rest of his offensive game, but he hasn't yet. Are we like, are you paying for loyalty? Are you paying for sentimental? Are you paying for that? Are you paying for production of what you expect him to do next year? I don't know why you would expect him to take that step forward offensively. Now, if you project him to do that, then you know that makes sense. But you know, you have two shooters who are right behind what McNeil does. Yeah, beyond capable. And meade is in the same universe as McNeil. Like he he is right there with him. And Hammond, um maybe a step down, but yeah, and I like I like the possibility of the bigs uh that State has. Uh James and I had taped something on that actually right before I hopped on. But um, I I like those options. I'm I've been present pleasantly surprised. I think they're doing, from what I can tell, they're doing a good job um, you know, balancing the budget, staying disciplined. And um, you know, again, we'll see where it goes. You add McNeil, you add a couple of these bigs, and you'll be cooking.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:43

Could you see McNeil mucking up the water if he were to come back with not enough ball to go around three players for shooting, or you don't think that's a problem?

SPEAKER_02 2:03:52

I mean, McNeil hasn't been a high usage guy. Um, and neither has Han, like Hammond's not really a high usage guy either. So I I think you have room for two uh high usage guys. Ed Mead is one of them. Like, I I definitely consider him a high usage guy. He's over 25% usage rate. Um I McNeil and Hammond have not to this point, have not been that high. So I think you have room for one of them to take a step forward, and presumably it would be McNeil if he's if he's got if he's able to show off more of that all-around game.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:21

Yeah, and real quick, you you saw uh especially when we play like Virginia and in a couple of teams towards the end of the season, uh, Virginia Tech did a really nice job at limiting uh McNeil's touches, and we didn't do a really good job of freeing him up, whether that's you know ball movement, screenage, all of that stuff. So to your point, you know, you're gonna he's either gonna have to create his own or you're gonna have to run an offense to where you can clear him for shots.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:47

Well, and I thought too, some of that was Kadir Copeland became a little bit more guardable. And I thought McNeil's production was really tied to Copeland. If Copeland's able to create shots for McNeil, McNeil's life is easier. Same thing with Ven Al and Lubin. If co if the other team did a good job guarding Copeland, it made those guys' life harder. So to me, the difference there is that Mead is more of a score, right? Copeland wasn't really a score, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:10

He forced himself into a score, but not by trait.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:12

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um, and as good of a shooter as Edmead is, like he can create too. I don't foresee that being as big of an issue against the better teams he play. Um but again, him being able to with the way he elevates um and his his ability to create separation on his own shot, he should be able to get that shot at any point or a shot at any point. Um, and then it just comes down to developing more around that.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:40

Yeah, good point. By the way, too, though, I I have a uh conspiracy theory out there that the guy Well, we've we've been running them all night.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:50

Why stop now?

SPEAKER_04 2:05:50

Yeah, that the guy that uh called Will Wade a pair as uh he was driving uh through the gate to the airport is the pair rating guy account on Twitter, and he was just trying to do advertisement.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:04

That's why that account is busted out onto the scene. Like I had never heard of it until Ethan. You pointed it out like in the beginning of the season, and that's a that's a really good scene.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:13

That's a good dude. Yeah, it's a good he's an Arkansas fan, so he's a good dude. I love I love the site, I use it all the time.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:18

Well, hey, hey, maybe he flew all the way here just to fucking pair and and uh yeah, pair rating. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:27

All right, we're getting off the rails.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:29

Okay, like now we got off the rails. Okay, anyway. Uh so yeah, with that being said, as I was gonna promote the man Ethan himself as well. Uh Wolfpack stats, make sure to go and or NC State Stats, you know, add NC State Stats, Wolfpack Stats. Ethan, why'd you do that?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:44

Like, yeah, NC State Stats on Twitter. I'm pretty sure I I have a substack. I don't know how much I'll use it, but uh Patreon as well. Uh like I've never used Substack.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:53

I need to figure out what Substack is. I like Substack. I'm a boomer.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:57

Yeah, boomer. I like Substack. I just prefer to talk than write sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:01

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:02

So that was why I ended up on Patreon instead. Um, but yeah, and then obviously all the podcasts with James over at IPS.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:08

Let's go. With that being said, Wolfpack Nation for us, if you have already, make sure to hit that subscribe button, hit that like button if you haven't already. If both those things are lighting up for you, that means you need to hit them right now. And then also to make sure you give us a follow at Tuffy DuckNow on Twitter, and also to as well, if you're listening to us on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to us, do us a big, big favor, leave us a five star review. Greatly appreciate that as well. With that being said, Wolf Pack Nation, we appreciate y'all. We'll love y'all. We'll see y'all soon. As always, go pack y'all and beat VT, baby.

unknown 2:07:45

Did did he?