NC State's Last Stand: ACC Tournament Preview & Tommy Gantt's UFC KO | Tuffy Talk Live

Wolfpack Nation — tonight we're talking about everything on the line for NC State baseball in Charlotte this week.

The Pack heads to the ACC Tournament as the #9 seed, opening against #16 Duke on Tuesday at 9 AM on ACC Network. NC State is 32-21 on the season and sitting squarely on the NCAA Tournament bubble — one of the last four teams in the projected field. 

What does this team actually need to do to dance? How far do they have to go in Charlotte? And is this roster capable of it?

We also give the UNC series an honest autopsy. Two losses at home. 17-7 in Game 2. What went wrong and what has to be fixed before Tuesday?

Then we turn the page to something that felt great this week — Tommy Gantt made his UFC debut and finished his opponent by KO/TKO. NC State All-American. 11-0 as a pro. From the wrestling room in Raleigh to the Octagon in Las Vegas. We celebrate that one.

And we close with the women's tennis season in full — back-to-back ACC Championships, seven straight Sweet 16s, an Elite 8 run against the reigning national champion. That program deserves its flowers.

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Transcript

1:54

What is going on, Wolf Pack Nation, welcome to another edition of the tough Toughie talk live show you got. Myself, Leighton Smith, you got Greg. The leg here. Just like normal here. Uh, for myself. Here. So if you couldn't tell, I'm not in my normal stage. Here is. I'm actually out in Austin, Texas on some work, but that does not hold us back, as we definitely still said. You know what? We still got sticks to it. We want to jump on live. We want to talk all things and see staple especially to as well. With this ACC tournament starting off tomorrow. We got to talk all about it here for sure. As I know Greg has some thoughts that he wants to discuss here regarding the ACC, the ACC tournament regarding the UNC series this past weekend, among other things as well. So with that being said, if you haven't already, make sure to put any questions, thoughts, uh, requests that you have in the chat and we will discuss them here today. Uh, apologies for again for a little bit of delay has once again just had to get the timing right here. But we are live and we're excited to be here. So with that being said, Greg, let's not waste any time here. Let's jump into why everybody wants to talk about here some ACC, NC state baseball here man. So. NC state drawing the number nine seed. And we'll be facing off against number 16 seed. Uh Duke uh tomorrow. And uh right now NC state sits right around number 42 in the RPI. So sitting definitely better definitely. Now on the right side of that at large bid um section here. So first of all, I just want to kind of ask I mean, where NC state sits right now. Greg, what's your confidence level of us making the NCAA tournament? Um, probably 7030. We make it okay. Yeah, I don't know. Like, you just never know what the committee is looking for. Um, there's lots of things that state has done fairly decent. Um, you know, obviously the non-conference schedule or schedule slash record was good, but again, a lot of that due to. creative scheduling, if you will. Um, definitely didn't really challenge ourselves too much. We had I mean, you could say the three toughest games we had on our out of conference schedule, we won, right? The two, the two, um, ECU games and the Coastal Carolina game. Uh, arguably those were the three best opponents. And we did we did win all three, so that was good. Uh, two and one at home. Uh, where we're going to get dinged at. Is that the. And I and I hate this argument. You know, you have the RPI which takes into consideration your strength of schedule. But when you look at the strength of schedule as a separate piece of the RPI, it looks really bad, right? So you can't really say, oh, you got to go to RPI, but you're starting to schedule sucks like that argument just doesn't I, I never I've never understood that. I will never understand that. Um, no road series wins again. The only true road series we had this year, uh, was, uh, the ACC schedule. We went over on that over five. Um, you know, you didn't you didn't win a series against FSU, Georgia Tech or Carolina. Uh, but that being said, you also played FSU, Georgia Tech and UNC, uh, state had the toughest ACC schedule. So will you get credit for that and going, um, 14. And was it 14 and 16? We ended up correct. Um, so will you get credit for that tough schedule? And, you know, two of those three series were on the road. Um, and that was FSU with Bailey. Georgia Tech, you know, was, you know, has been Georgia Tech and then Carolina, you ended up getting, you know, salvaging game three out of that series. And I know we'll talk about that more when we get down. So that's kind of where I'm at. Um, I don't think tomorrow really matters if you win. If you lose, you know, does the does the committee take that into consideration and penalize you? Um, because that would not be the greatest of losses. Um, yeah. To Duke. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's pretty. It's let's put it this way. I still think that there's definitely a decent chance. And when I say decent, I'm not saying it's more likely. I'm saying that it's a significant chance that NC states still might not make the tournament for a couple of reasons. First of all, you know, uh, you know, I think it was Coach Haven that made the comment or made the statement of, you know, you want to be playing your best baseball and in, in June and, uh, you know, unfortunately for NC state, they've lost four of their last five series. Um, you know, with, you know, obviously Stanford and Virginia Tech specifically standing out of like just when one of those please, just one of those. We're not even talking about this right now, but also to as well. And uh, uh, I saw a key comparison talking about Notre Dame last year, who missed the tournament at 14 and 16. They were number 48, uh, RPI. And they missed the tournament and they missed the tournament. So right now we're at, uh, I believe it was like 42, so a little bit higher than RPI, but same ACC schedule, ACC record. So and then also to as well, I think, uh, Baseball America also even said that this profile the state currently has aligns more closely with the tournament myths. After this recent slide to as well. It's you know it definitely doesn't help the recency bias. I think it it definitely would play a lot better if you were going into the tournament with momentum and with a stronger resume at the end than at the beginning. Uh, but again, you know, does the committee at all take into account injuries that we've had with maroon and Duden? Uh, you know, it's it's hard to say, you know, but at the end of the day, it just it's just it stinks and it sucks once again that we're leaving it in the committee's hands, like, you know, the the saying goes like, don't let the referees, you know, make the decision. Well, don't like the don't let don't let Mindy make the decision for you. Like make it make it a a like not even a thought like yeah of course in the States in it like, you know we shouldn't have even have have been here. And then there's a lot of, you know. You know, topics or live discussions that can be made around the decisions with the pitch and philosophy, the decisions with the batting lineup, you know, and the fact that, you know, Vargo started off, yes, really strong in that week, one week, then that first week in series. But then ever since then, he's not really been much of a, of a of a game changer while, you know, uh, you know, Wiggins, you know, has really came on strong here at uh towards the end. So but again there's a lot to dive into there, there for sure. But once again I mean if I can push back on the Bargo thing, I mean, I just don't think he was ever right after that Richmond game. I mean, he was on a tear going into that, you know, that midweek Richmond game. And he was I don't know, maybe you could even say inexcusably left in uh, in a blowout. Um, that should have never if that was an ACC game, that that injury would never have happened because they would have run ruled it at seven. Um, but you know, again, you can't you can't go back in and change time. Unfortunately, I don't have a Delorean that that works. And, um, but, um, getting back to, you know, state, um, you know, chances of making the NCAA tournament just for comparison. And again, look, it's it is apples to oranges a little bit, but it, it, it provides some context. In 2022 when we were quote unquote snubbed. Right. We were the the first team out, if you will. Our RPI that season was 35. And this year we're sitting at 42. Again. The bubble line moves every year. So I you know, if you want to make that argument you have at it, I, I won't disagree with you there. Um similar ACC resume. We were 14 and 15 had won one game canceled that year. So basically the same sitting 36 and 21 in that year. Our strength of schedule was 35 in the country. Okay. So anyway yeah I'm just providing data points. Not saying that, you know, that's going to hold true this year. Again, you kind of mentioned it, and I've mentioned it at nauseam. Like you just don't know what the committee is looking for, right? Are they looking for, you know, strength of schedule or are they looking for RPI? Are they looking at conference record? They're looking at series wins. All of those things. There's just you know, we're not in that. We're not in that discussion room. All you can do at this point is just go keep winning and hope that the things turn out the way that you hope and envision that they will. Um, you know, obviously, if you ask Coach Haven, he thinks this is a tournament team. Um, you mentioned the injuries. You know, with all that being said, they they've still fought and hung around. Now, I will say that their schedule is much lighter, and I'll put that in quotations just because, again, you know, you early on you played those series that I mentioned. Uh, but you still struggled to win ACC series. And, you know, you had you had multiple opportunities. You know, you Virginia Tech, you had a chance to win that series. Stanford. You had a chance to win that series. If you win one of those series on the road, you're We're probably not having this discussion. Um, yeah. It's just you put yourself. You've you've you put yourself into a corner. Now you gotta kind of swing, come swinging out of it, and hopefully that you do enough this week to, you know, put one last thought into the committee's mind to say that you you do belong. Correct. Yeah. No, absolutely. It's it's just, you know, there's nothing you can do about it except, you know, hey, just go into this. I mean, like, listen, like like the the the entire batting order has shown potential, has shown promise, has shown a lot of high points. Yeah. You know, at times for sure. I mean, like like you've seen, you know, like it's it's not it's not a batting lineup where you're reliant on your top 4 or 5 guys. Like, like there really is potential across the board to do damage. Um, now and then also to with the, with the pitching. You know, you've seen, you know, potential. Right. You know you know how elite Anderson Nance has has played recently. Um, you know Cooper Consiglio he didn't have his best performance against Carolina. You know again, he's shown a lot of times where he's been able to get you out of some tough holes here. So like I was part two, I would push back against coop. I didn't think coop pitched bad the other night. You know, he you know he's if you're looking at his raw numbers. Yeah. He gave up the runs. But look up. Look at the earned runs. Right. Like it wasn't that bad. We made a costly error and they score five runs because of that error. That game looks vastly different if if we get one out there to close the inning out. And those those runs don't get plated. And then you know we'll again we'll get we'll we'll we'll dive a little bit deeper into these games. But I thought if you, if you get out of that inning, you know his pitch count looks different. Maybe he goes another extra inning on the back end. Um, you know, there's just so many different factors. Like, again, when when you have the injuries that we currently have with the pitching staff and the Mikey Ryan has, you know, kind of just been trying to fight through his injury. And, you know, he got in a little bit of DH this weekend. Your room in your margin for error is just so paper thin. And and we had been doing a really good job up until that point in the season. Defensively, we were number two. Uh, we still may be number two in the conference defensively. But, um, you know, when you're kind of fighting for your, your, your, your postseason life, you, you, you got to be sharp and and again, um, you know, this isn't a knock on, on on Christian. He's out of hell of a, um, um, start to his college career. Yeah. Debut. Um, you know, he's done he's been asked a lot, you know, slide into a position that's not an easy position at all. Uh, and these things happen. I mean, he's a he's a freshman. Freshman or got a, you know, it wasn't it just just happened. I mean, it's just a play. Uh, he probably makes that nine and a half out of ten times. Um, but unfortunately, it's just one of those moments where it was crucial and it hurt and, you know, it changed. It changed the complexion of the game, uh, drastically. Um, yeah. No. Absolutely. Now, um, just to kind of wrap up talking here a little bit about the tournament here is, you know, it's all you know, most of the storyline really with the tournament is just let's see what happens. You know, there's I mean like it's a tough road to say the least. I mean you're having to win basically five games in a row. Uh, you have to beat, uh, Duke and then you have to face Virginia, who you haven't faced this season. But, you know, is, you know, that's definitely a winnable game. But then you have to go face Georgia Tech. And Georgia Tech is Georgia Tech. They're, you know, as hot as anybody in the country right now. And then you probably have to face either Boston College or Miami, which either of those would be a tough pull. And then you find those series, but you beat you won the World Series, correct? Yep. That's true. But I want to pause that. Georgia Tech like I honestly, I don't want to even think there's too many what if scenarios at the Georgia Tech like you you got to go win tomorrow. We'll have Heath on the mound. Yep. Um, you know he he pitched pretty well against Duke. Got the win against um, uh, earlier in the season in game two of that series. Um, you know, what are we? You know, what's the you know, what is the what is the backing? If you will look like you, you probably won't have. Well, I know you won't have Nancy. He won't be available. Uh, Cooper is probably not available. Um, but again, you know, if we can take the the old slogan from basketball in 83, just survive in advance, and then you deal with tomorrow's pitching when you get there. Yeah. And, um, you know, kind of see where the chips fly. Yep. Yeah. No, I in my, in my opinion, you really just, you know, let's put it this way. Like, like you don't save any bullets for Georgia Tech. Like thin day, like, like, use whatever bullets you need. Get through Duke, get through Virginia. And then just let's see what happens with Georgia Tech, you know? Well, I do I do like it again. We're getting way ahead of ourselves because tomorrow's not even promised. But, um, you know, if you get to a, if you get to a Georgia Tech, I mean, you you you it sets up for Anderson Nance to be able to, you know, give you some stuff. Right. Because that would be that would be on Thursday. And he had pitched um um on Saturday. Uh, I think either right around 95 or so pitches, I would have to go back and look the actual numbers. Um, maybe he gives you something, you know, if you're if you're just trying to, again, advance to the next day again, it's just trying to find an arm for the situation to get you a couple of outs to get you to the next guy. And then, you know, hopefully, you know, your hope. Really your hope is you can get some run rules into this if you're going to if you're if you're in states position for this tournament, your hope is to run, rule the shit out of people and only have to go seven innings to save arms. Um, if if somehow we we we we catch lightning in a bottle offensively and able to do that. Okay. Like now now you might have something cooking. Uh, but you could Duke and Virginia. That's it's doable for sure. It's possible. Sure it's possible. I mean we put up runs. We put up I think 18 runs against Duke earlier in the season, if I'm not mistaken, 17, 18, something like that. I'm um, and I think we did run rule them in that he Heath Andrew start um and again I haven't I didn't I had a really busy day today so I wasn't able to do a lot of lot of research. I'm just kind of we won, we won, we won 10 to 4. We won ten four in game one. And then we won 18 five in game 218 five okay. Yeah. All right. That's pretty that's pretty good memory. Um but yeah 18 five in the Heath Andrew's game I think he threw like six and a third um, gave up like 5 or 6 runs. But again, um, I was okay with him giving up that many runs because you had such a big lead. You know, you want him to pitch the contact and just let your defense, you know, make outs don't don't, don't give them, quote unquote, a big inning. Um, and most of the runs he gave up were early in the, in the start. And then he was really good. Um, from after like the second inning or so. Yeah. Um, so again, you know, you hope maybe, you know, there's something there. But again, you know, Duke has got tape on Heath there. They're going to go back and study their at bats and see how they, you know, how they were pitched to and you know. Now, can we counter that and keep them off balance? Right. Because that's the whole point of pitching is keeping the offense off balance. Keep them guessing. Uh, if you can do that, then you give yourself a chance. But we gotta hit the ball. I mean, there's just no evidence or buts about it. This is a team that when they're on, they hit really well. And, um, again, yeah, I'm just kind of kind of going on hoping. Hoping for something. Um, yeah. Again, you know, again, that 22 season, you know, I, I brought that up for comparison. That's a, that's a team that went all the way to the SEC Championship game and it didn't matter. Right. So again, you know, if you start Chris Villa in that game that might look different. Um again apples to oranges a little bit. But just contextually that's kind of what I'm seeing here. Yeah. No, absolutely. And just like you said, Greg, for sure. I mean, you know, we are getting ahead of ourselves. Nobody saying that we're going to even miss a beat, Duke. But obviously to, you know, we don't we don't we don't, but we don't. What else do we. We don't podcast. On a daily basis either. So, you know, obviously a week from now we'll know how things go. But, uh. Yeah. So, you know, I do want to jump into here and any other final comments, Greg, about the AC tournament here before we jump into. No, I mean, you've seen some teams make runs early on, like Kyle made a nice little mini run last year. Um, obviously again, you know, when you're when you're going day one pitching is going to be the biggest concern that you have is do you have enough depth to get you to from Tuesday to Saturday. Um, is it Sunday Championship on Sunday? Yeah. Championships on Sunday. On Sunday? Yeah. I always get confused because sometimes like the basketball, they do theirs on Saturday for the ACC and men's. Um, right. But uh, yeah, that's you know, when, when, when you, when you're going to this and you're breaking it down, do you have the pitching. And we'll have to just watch the games and find out. Well yeah. Because guess what. Then day like, you know there is going to be a pitcher that. Walks up on the mound, you know, to start the game. Period. Now who it is. You know, at that day it doesn't really matter at then day. Whoever it is, just go get the job done. Just like you said in advance, you know, like you don't have to win it all by yourself. Just just get us in a position to win. That's all I do. Yeah. And I guess the last thing I'll say about, about the tournament is like, what is the leash look like for these guys? Right. I would imagine like first sign of trouble, you get guys out, you know, get people ready to go. Don't don't don't play with fire. They're, uh, even if he only goes two innings, you know, get him out of there. Maybe you bring them back in, you know, 2 or 3 games if you're still advancing, right? Like, I just don't. I just don't think you have time to let guys figure it out. Uh, when you're in these. Yeah. Postseason play, especially in single elimination. Well, especially too, since you do have a long road that you would have to do in order to get there. So like, it's it'd be one thing if you only had to play three games. So it's like, listen, just let the guy finish his job, get through the game, and then you have plenty of options for the next two, like the end day. It's like, hey, listen, if you, you know, if this is not Heath Andrew's day, pull them. It's that way. If you make it later in the week, you can bring it back, you know, and then and then that'll be his day, you know that. That's the hope. But yeah. And and again you know the last thing I'll say. But if he's, if he's pitching really well, you want to ride him like Seabiscuit, you know. But yeah. Absolutely. First sign of trouble, you get him the hell out of there and you get somebody else up there. Um, you know, you you gotta you gotta be ahead of it, you know, even if you, you know, hopefully. And I trust the I trust the staff enough, I don't I'm not saying like they're gonna do this, but I, I would hope that, you know, as soon as they see, you know, hey, he's at so many pitches. He's coming through the lineup for the third time. You know three. You know, three, four, five are up the next three up maybe 567. But number seven is hit him. You know two for two. Those type of things. Hopefully they're making those decisions like in real time and not waiting for that to develop. Correct. Which and we're kind of obviously thinking that. But you know, obviously it's unfortunately not really been I think the philosophy this season to be proactive. It's unfortunately kind of no, and it's not even just the season. It just feels like over the years we've left our pitchers out to dry sometimes where, you know, and it's the toughest call in baseball for a from a pitching coach and a managerial perspective. It's just like, okay, when because the coach always wants one more guy, one more inning, like because he's like, if I can just get to this inning, I can bring in this guy. If I can just get to this, I can get to this guy. Like, like you do have a game plan, I assume. I mean, I would, um, and you just want to, like, hope. Can we just execute this? Just give me one more pitch. Because if you can get this lefty out, I can bring a righty to face this guy. Like, it's just. It's a game of chess, and you just, you know, you just hold on to that. That to that hope. Yeah. Well, it's it's it's like, uh, two years ago when we were in the World Series and, uh, you know, we pulled, uh, d rock to put, uh, Duden in, and everybody was saying, why, what? Why the heck did did they, you know, pull d rock to put dude in to give up a home run. And I said, well, because they didn't know he was going to give up a home run. Like like like, I mean, like it's it's a hindsight is a definition. Hindsight 2020. Like like like guess what. Like it could have been looked at as a genius move. Like, hey, yeah, bring in the young guy who's who's proven who went against some of the toughest competition college baseball has to offer and is completely fresh. Sure. And I'll shoot those guys. Haven't seen him yet either. So like, it's it's that is a total hindsight 2020 statement. Say well, why did you pull them. Well what they didn't know. Well yeah I mean you play odds, right? I mean there's you you literally have analytics that says, okay, like dude throws a mean slider. This guy can't hit a slider. Okay. Okay. Then you bring in dude in, right? I'm just using this your example as the as the case, you know. But you know what? If dude misses his spot? What if Duden just, you know, whatever. What if d rock, you know, whatever. I mean, again, to your point, you play the what if game ever. It's just it's baseball, bro. Like, you know, you're going to make decisions in life. They're going to be wrong and you learn from them. Um, just unfortunately, it's with millions of people watching. You know, no one's there's not millions of people watching me, you know, put in information into a computer at work. It's just we we have the ability to scrutinize, you know, these moves and, um, you know, we all we all want to, you know, armchair quarterback the thing, if you will. Absolutely. So with that being said, uh, rusty brought up a great point, which I want to talk about here. Lots of speculation that this is Avon's last Stan thoughts, and if so, what will be his legacy, NC state. You know, Greg, this is we can honestly spend a whole hour just talking about this and definitely and and and obviously whenever, whenever it does get called, we'll definitely be doing an episode whenever it happens. And this is not like I don't know anything. I know Greg, because at least to my knowledge, you don't know anything either. but and I mean and I to I think. To Avon's Avon is one of those guys that it's it's pretty cut and dry like you know I think that you know he's you know, he probably like like especially in his recent statement where he said, you know, listen, I'm just I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. I'm going to go home, enjoy this whenever you and see and I'm going to go to Charlotte. I truly do think that truly is actually where his head is at, is like, I'm not sure. Now, obviously there's, you know, to be completely frank, there's two sides of this coin. It's what Avon wants to do and it's what he wants to do, you know? And so just gotta call a spade a spade, you know, like, what does he want to do? You know, as well, like, if Avon wants to come back. But booze has another thing in mind then that that plays a factor here. Now again, that's just that's just laying all the cards on the table. It's not just simply what does Avon want to do now, with that being said, I do want to make crystal clear in my opinion, and I know I'm pretty sure in your opinion, it should be Avon's choice of when he wants to go. I think he's he's earned that right for for from a from a general perspective with the fact that he's, you know, he's spent 30 years as he stayed. You know, he has for the last six years made it to Omaha twice. You know, he's like he he's shown again, a lot of success here. Uh, you know, so I, you know, I just would have a really hard time of, you know, pushing him out now again, like, I do want to say this also to as well, I can guarantee you it's not going to be a there's, there's, it's, it's it's not going to be a headline of haven't got fired. That is never going to be a headline. That's not how that's not how it's going to happen. It's going to be simply a you know, Elliott Haven is, is is moving on or whatever it may be like. So like it's like I just I just want to kind of say that from a perspective. If at the end of the day, like with me pointing out that it is partly Boo's decision with what Avon means to NC state with what he's given to NC state, it's it's it's never going to be put as Avon was pushed out publicly, you know, But again. So jumping into it here now, uh, you know, about what does he do next? Well, do I get to rebuttal this? Like, that was like, oh, yeah. I was like, sorry. Sorry, bud. So, well, if you're if you're hunkering to get in, usually you're the one to jump in. So I'll let you go with it. No, because I think I think this isn't just a, you know, I, I it's funny because I looked at the clock where we were at when you started the conversation. We were at 24 minutes. And so that was just over a two minute, you know. Um, yeah. Dissertation if you will. But, um, no, I think, I think we we can't just gloss over this. Right. I think I think that, you know, there should be about a 10 or 15 minute conversation. So let's let's give it for what it's worth. Well, yeah. No, and I was I wasn't moving on from Avon. No no no no then to. Yeah. Go ahead though. No no no it's all good brother. Um so you brought up some points. Uh, first off, it takes two to tango, right? Right. Um, you know, boot, uh, I'll start with Avon. Probably still wants to dance. Sure. I'm not sure if boo wants to be his dancing partner. Um, you know, to your point. Also his contract. I think at this point, everyone knows his contract expires after this season. Yep. And yes, I don't think you would ever say if if anyone if any journalist that is paid to cover NC state athletics, if any one of those people put Boo Corrigan fired Avent or Avent was fired. That's a bunch of hogwash. It it should be. There's you can say the same thing in multiple different ways. And it's all about framing, right? We talk about catchers framing. You can frame the story however you want to. So if if you want to get clickbait and gotcha you will you're going to put Avent gets fired. Yeah. We can't stop people from doing that. Um, and I don't even think that it would necessarily be unless it truly was mutually agreed upon that Avent steps aside. I don't I I'm genuinely curious if if if a move is made after this season, how it's going to be framed. I think the, the, the wording of it is going to say a lot about, um, Coach Avon's legacy. Right. And that's kind of one of the things I think we were starting to head towards was his legacy. It's NC state. Um, and again, you know, depending on how it's worked in the back, back rooms of, of whatever, um, you know, and if coach event is or excuse me if Coach Hart is the successor to Coach Avent, I think that kind of frames the conversation differently, right? Um, I think you could see a move where Avon agrees to step aside in order for Chris Hart. Um, who's the third base coach and hitting coach at NC state, to take the job because most would assume that's the most logical next move. Um, as much as Coach Hart. Um, there's even been some articles written about how much the duties that have been put on him over the recent years. Um, coach Hart's a great a great hitting coach. You saw what he did with a mac. Mac, you mentioned that College World Series run. Um, you know, he's very well regarded in the industry. Um, you know, he's he's a key recruiter from the all those guys you see from Florida, i.e., all the way back to Trey Turner. Very, very, um, significant in getting trade to NC state. And you see the the pipeline of Florida kids that we've have right now. There's a bunch of them on this team. You have Mikey Ragusa. Um, Vince DiCarlo you got Cooper Consiglio, you got Ty Head. Um, two of those are very significant contribution guys. Two of them are true freshmen that you've seen in the last month, or half have some success and had some, some, some, you know, decisions in the game. Right. Or, you know, impact on the game is what's the word I'm looking for? Yeah. Um, I, I and again, you know, you know, you could almost would hope that maybe Avent was ready to retire and had one more year on his contract and then steps aside like maybe a Tony Bennett did. And then it kind of forces the hand to make, uh, Coach Hart the new coach. Yeah. Um, I don't know. Like, again, I've heard rumors that Coach Avent and Boone may not have the best of relationships. Uh, I think some of that, from what I've heard, stem from Omaha. Uh, people can read into that however they want. Again, that's just what I've heard and what I've been told. I don't know how much of that's true. Uh, if that were the case, does does does bu want Coach Hart. Right. Because again. That's right. That that's a, that's a disciple. That's a leaf or a branch off of the event coaching tree. Um, again different different people. Go ahead. Well, because that's the thing too is like like I don't want and no, NC state fans should want bu to do the like just do the obvious thing. Just because it's the obvious thing. Like like I truly want, you know, you know him to, you know, like do his due diligence, you know like see what other options are interested out there. You know, and just, you know, gauge, you know, is there a, you know, a level head coach that's interested, you know, and and taking the job and you know, but yeah, I mean like obviously Chris Hart for sure should get the first look. 100% no doubt about it. And and I think that from an NC state fan perspective, I don't think we'd be upset at all if Coach Heart is given. I would be shocked if if any NC state fan that really falls baseball would be shocked if or mad or upset that Chris Hart got the head coaching position. Nope. Again, I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves like we do with the ACC Baseball Tournament, but this is a current topic. Like it's it's very relevant in topic. It's very um, well, because I mean, it's really it's, it's it's the end of an era, you know, if it is potentially, I mean, at some point in the next couple of years, whether it's in three, three, two weeks, three weeks, a year or two years, like it's it's definitely on the back end, the back half of it. Right, the back and especially to as well, Greg, because I mean let's be real. Like. Like if if this year NC state was looking at hosting a regional, it was you know top you know, 20 team in the country. Then I think the wins about the next steps of Coach Haven's career would be different than it is right now. Now not to not say not to say it's been a bad year, but just, you know, it's it's it's, you know, so but but again this you're talking a coach that's gone to Omaha in two of the last five seasons. Well we went 21 and 24. You know the same Greg. You know, what have you done for me lately. Like it's like like like this. Okay. What have I done to you lately? I made the turn. And again, we're just having a conversation. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying I'm right. Go for it. I love it like you. You went to Omaha in 21 and 24, all right? You probably would have won it. Let's be real. Like I think most fans would. State fans. You you were one game away from making the finals at Omaha College baseball fans would say that. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean, it helped. Mississippi State fans were like, y'all were the best team. Like, I can't tell you how many people I've had tell me that. Um, you know, and again, you know, if you want to play this game, what if you won in 21? Are you getting rid of him in 26? Like, I don't think so. Um, now, you did see Mississippi State kind of make that move. They won in 22. And then like two years later, they got rid of their coach. Again, not unprecedented, but it's fairly rare. Um, but you know, since the run in 21, we've made the postseason every year. But 22 again I gave you the, the the criteria and then the information earlier. Um, that that was a snub. Um, ironically, the we were the it was us in Mississippi that were fighting for the last spot and wouldn't you know, Mississippi goes and wins the College World Series that year. Yeah. So you can't really say the committee got it wrong. That's the that's the frustrating part from a state thing. You're like, you got it wrong. But they got but then they got the national champion out of us. But um yeah. So again we're gonna, you know, we're we're kind of seeing where we're going to go with the, with the with the postseason this year. Now I will say this if if we don't make the postseason, that's just the that's that's a loaded gun. Now for boo Corgan. All right. Yeah yeah. Can I get the lifetime achievement award with with Elliott. Right. Like he's been a dude. Been here 30 years. Over 1100 career wins at NC state. You know, the like you root for the guy. He's an NC state guy thinking through, you know, he tells the stories of Monte, told David Thompson. Um, you know, he he's got NC state stories galore. You know. Absolutely. Coach Esposito, who was a, you know, a dude, you had coach Tanner. Um, um, um, uh, Bob was it Bob Guzzo who just passed away? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just catch Coach Gonzo like he's got stories about him. Like he's got all the stories. I mean, he's been here. He's been there, done that. Got the t shirt. Um, but again, at the end of the day, these coaches are judged on wins and losses. It's what you think the direction of your program is currently headed to from today. And as the as the Adi bu, Corgan has to make that decision. Look, sometimes you got to make decisions that are hot takes, right? If you will. You you can't let outside noise pressure you. It's a tough job. Bu Corgan is getting paid to make these decisions. Sometimes they're going to be popular decisions, right? Like everyone love the the way the wheel weighed higher. All right. Again, take away all the nonsense at the end. That was a home run. Higher. You had home run. Hires an, um, soccer coach recently, Mark Hubbard. Like, that's been a really good coaching decision he's made and pulled some triggers on coaches that have done really well in NC state. Yeah. So you have to think and trust the process if that decision is made now. Yeah. Let's go ahead and reset and kind of move the conversation and some other things. Um, I will say Saturday felt different being in the ballpark. Um, kind of waving to the fans, tipping his hat. It just felt different. I can't remember a time at the end of a season that I've seen him do that. And that's not to say that he's not done that before. Sure, it it just looked and felt different. Um, yeah. Again, that's just a gut feeling. I had, uh, some of the people in the ballpark kind of had said I had the same thoughts. Um, it's it's one of those things I. Uh, let me ask you this. If you had to go 5050. What percentage? You know, 73, 90, 1099, 000. Whatever. What what what is your gut thought? In which way are you leaning of him coming back or or or leaving? Yeah, I here's my thing. And then the the the everything is lining up too perfectly, in my opinion, and I'll explain those different pieces. Yeah, to the point that I have to say 8020 that that he is not the head coach. And he stayed next year. And there's a couple things. First of all, and we've talked about this before of, you know, like like this, these upgrades have been like he's been extremely involved in these upgrades, you know, making it a part of his legacy that we'll talk a little bit more about here. Um, and you know, those are, you know, getting towards the back end of getting completed, number two as well. His contract is coming to an end. So it's another piece that's lining up. Number three, you are going to lose a few big pieces of this team. This up I counted. So just my gut feeling I counted off this current roster. I expect 21 people not to be on this roster next year. Yeah. So and obviously highlighted at the most by Jacob Dutton and Maroon. That will sure tie head you know Ty. Yeah that's a big one McHugh Sherman Johnson, Nixon, just to name a few. There's more guys that we can name, but just out of the starting lineup, you know, Braden Fraser, you know he's in the starting lineup for the most of the season. Um, you I only counted probably two positional players off of your starting roster. That will be, like, perennial starters. Right now. I'm not talking guys that have made stars yet, but you're, you know, made over 50% of the starts this year. And that would be Mikey Ryan and and Rhett Johnson. Other than that you're replacing seven position players. But there's even a fourth thing I would say that lines up perfectly to as well. And this is something that's kind of a little bit definitely out of, you know, Coach Havens control here. But the way that college athletics has changed now where it's it's all about the shiny toy. It's all about, you know, like it's all about raising money. And how do you raise money by getting people excited, by getting people. Fascinating. How do you get people excited, fascinated by bringing like, you know, having that new shiny toy and like, you know Coach Haven he's he's you know Ole. Not Ole Ole reliable. Uh, you know like I know what's his old school. Yeah. He like. Like, you know what you're going to get from him. You know, you're going to have, you know, a competitive roster. You're going to have a roster that's exciting to watch, and you're going to have a team that that plays, you know, that plays really hard, you know, and and and represents the state very well. Um, so but you know, now especially with, you know, these other schools out there that are making heavy investments from a nil rev share perspective in the school. And, you know, and especially to right now, like, you know, in-state fans are getting pulled by the arms at all these different sports between men's basketball, women's basketball, football, even the non-revenue like wrestling. Like you know baseball's got to start getting gotta guys start pulling, you know, to a little bit as well. And so I think having somebody, you know, who can come in who is a little bit more open, you know, to the idea of getting out there and, and, you know, helping to push the nil rev share perspective around baseball, I think can really be a, you know, a huge step in in terms of moving towards this new era, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I'll piggyback off of that. Right. Like a couple years ago you saw like a baseball celebration, which is essentially an Nil event, right. Yep. We haven't had one in the last two years. Right. So what are we doing there? We were. What are we doing two years ago? Correct, correct. What are we what are we doing from that perspective? Right. I think anytime and again it again takes people to tango, takes people to put these things events together. You know, is there enough interest, you know, the money you have to spend to make the money, like, is there enough? I don't know those questions. I just know that we had a one. Um, I thought it was fairly successful, but we haven't had two of the two of them the last years. You know, you've had the basketball celebration, which is a men and women's event together. It's just a basketball thing. Every year you have the Savage Wolves one pack, uh, football, football one. Um, what are we what are we doing for baseball? Um, especially when you look at, you know, again, you see the rumor numbers that each sport is getting. Don't know if those are true or not, but if they are or they're pretty close. You know, baseball, baseball is fighting for dollars. Like, if you can go have an event and raise a couple hundred thousand dollars, that's money towards, you know, a couple of players. Um, I don't know. I don't know the official going rate of players. Um, it's definitely nowhere near basketball. Um, definitely isn't anywhere near football. Yeah, but you need to find creative ways to get revenue. Um, you know, hell, uh, I think it was Louisiana Lafayette this year had a special, like, Mardi Gras jersey. You could, you could. They auctioned them right off the players back. Perfect. You have 30 guys that each jersey gets. Save 250 bucks. I don't know, public math is hard, but that's that's that's free money. Those jerseys probably cost you less than $1,000 to make. I don't know, you probably even had you get all these Adidas credits and all that, so I don't even know how much it truly, truly cost. Have a special jersey made. Um, we have to find ways in today's world to get revenue. And, you know, is Coach Avent the person to lead that charge? I'm not sure about that. Um, like you said, he's an old school guy. Thinks differently. Um, again, in order, like, at the end of the day, how serious are you about baseball, right? Like, I get it. Like I get it. It's not the SEC, right? Like, there are there are programs in the SEC that are very solvent that they make money. Um, baseball's not that. Baseball's not that an NC state. It's just not. I don't think it ever will be. Um, I don't even think we're. I don't even think we're. I don't know if we're even top half, to be honest with you. Um, as far as the ACC. The ACC yeah, I, I've been to. I've been to a lot of stadiums and I love the dome. I will say that we kick every stadium's ass in the scoreboard round, like our scoreboard is the best in the ACC. I haven't seen one better, but the game day environment, like it's pretty weak. Like I'm very vocal as people know it. Games. I was doing my damnedest to get people. Like you thought you would have thought that we were in the middle of a church service at a tennis match or a golf outing. Like it was like quiet as a church mouse. I'm like. Y'all do realize what's at stake tonight and in this weekend? Like, we need to make it uncomfortable. I've been to stadiums in the ACC where it's very uncomfortable. I don't like it's just everybody goes to have a good time, like, hey, it's a social outing. Hey, maybe have a drink. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've been at a damn ball game. And people will want to talk about their kids in the weather and what they're doing in a month. And they're going to vacation in Cabo. Like I don't give. We're at nine, almost 930. I don't give a hell. I don't give a shit about that. I'm. I'm here to play. I'm here to watch a baseball game. I'm here to get rowdy. I'm here to make a few friends. I'm here to win. I'm here to win. Yeah, I'm here to win. Exactly. Yeah. And again. So do we take baseball as a fan? And as an NC state community? Serious enough to where we want to make it a priority? Well, I don't think so. I think it's third or fourth. You know, I, I think, honestly, if I'm being real and truthful, I think women's basketball in the pecking order is ahead of baseball. Mhm. As much as it pains me to say that. And again that's nothing against Coach Haven. I'm just talking about how it's embraced from an NC state fan community. Most people don't care about baseball until after basketball is over. Period. Dude, I mean, all right, here's my thing. You know, because you were talking about, like, you know, is a the right guy, I don't know. Here's my thing. There's never. And by the way, I love Coach Haven. This is not a not a knock on coach event whatsoever. Like you said, the the game is changed. It's a new thing. Exactly. No, this is this is. Listen. Like we can still. Hey, we still love our family, but admit that there's that their shortcomings and and and one. You know, one shortcoming which I've been frustrated by is, in my opinion, Greg, there's never been a better time than over the last five years to squeeze every juice that you every, every bit of juice you can out of Carlos Rodon, Trey Turner, Patrick Bailey, those guys like dude like, well, like I've heard rumors. I've heard rumors that they wanted to give more, but with certain stipulations and well, but stipulations weren't met and so they didn't give as much. So don't always. Again, I don't know how true that rumor is. I've heard it from several people that I. That I trust that like, what are we doing again? Are we serious about baseball? But that's the thing though. Like it doesn't if they need to be them giving money. It's doing an event with Carlos Jordan, Trey Turner there. So they're not giving Trey like I mean like I get it like Trey wasn't there, but he does victory Day over cancer. Like That's. Sure. Like that's freaking amazing. Like I can't I get it, like I get it, I get I totally get where you're coming from late. And this is, again, this is not me pushing back at you. Yeah. Um, it's it's like it's I'll. I'll take it this way. It's like asking the same ten donors that have always giving tons of money to NC state. Hey, I need to get. I need you to give me a little more. I need you to give me more, I need you give me more. And at some point, there's going to be fatigue there. And you don't want to burn those guys out, right? Because they are the face of your program. You don't want to alienate them because you're like, hey, Carlos, I know you just got a contract extension. Can you, uh, a couple dollars, like. Sure. It's just it's not fair to them. No, but also to like, because, like, just my thing is like. Yes. Like there's no doubt. I mean, like like I'm not sitting because I'm also sitting here saying, not not saying that that Carlos Rodon trade turn don't do like like they give a lot for sure. No for sure for sure. My my issue is more of around that. We haven't put you know, we haven't involved them in terms of a fan experience. Okay. Pause, pause. What did I just bring up that we haven't done over the last couple of years? Right. No. Exactly. Exactly. Because guess who's coming to the football this year? Uh, Philip. Rivers. Jericho. Kotori. There's your there's your there's your comp. There's your comp. Right. If you're using Philip Rivers as your comp. Trey Turner and or Carlos Roden is your is your Philip Rivers of of baseball. And so if you have an event yes you invite them. You get more people to show up. You raise more money. This is how it works. Like, again, I'm not pushing back at you, Layton. We I get you, I don't know. And again, maybe they've tried this. I'm not saying we don't know if they have or have it. So. So we have to be perfectly fair in that, um, you know, that that that stipulation there. Um, but but again, goes back to my point. How serious are you about baseball? How serious are you about winning? Look, and you've seen some great things and it's taken coach Avent damn near climbing Mount Everest to get these upgrades. I mean, I mean, I've talked to players from years on past like, yeah, when we showed up in like Trey Turner show up there like we have upgrades coming. You know, we have upgrades coming for the next guys. Like, you know, Brant Austin was part of that group. You, you know, the next group of like Reed Johnson's and and Sam Highfields and all of those. When you saw the 21, they that shit was supposed to be done when they showed up. Right. Like and now we're here. So so, you know, we talk about Coach Evans legacy. He got it done right. He did. He got those upgrades done. And again it's it's it's new. Building is awesome. It's it's great right. It's great. Um okay. Here let's have an event. You want to go see the new facilities, make a $25 donation, make a$50 donation. Whatever. All right. Again, let's get creative and, like. Like you want to have fun? 100 bucks. Go take some rips in the batting cage. Right. Hell, I'll go pay 100 bucks to get some rips in the batting cage in the in the baseball practice facility. Like there's ways to do this, but do you want to put in the effort to do it right? Exactly. And again, even if we only raise$1,000, that's $1,000 more than you had before. And it cost you a couple of hours. So someone volunteer their time in the Or in the athletic department, make it fricking happen. Like there's people out there would love to do these things. Um, have a coaches clinic. All right. For adults. Like, how many times have you seen adults playing at spring training? Like, dude, I'll go out there and take a couple of ribs around the doc. 200 bucks, like, whatever. Again, there are ways to make money. Hire me. I'm ready. I love it. That's awesome. Greg. I think these are just things. I'm just throwing off the top of my head right now. And again, people may think they're stupid ideas, harebrained ideas, but you. There are ways to make money. You just have to put forth the effort. Again, I'm going to keep hammering this point. How serious are you about winning baseball? How about we totally got off tangent there. But it's all relative. It was so good. Hey, you are. In my opinion, that is where you in. That piece right there for sure now. But anyway. So so I didn't. I'll give my my thoughts. I'm kind of with you 8020. He doesn't come back and it's not because he doesn't want to come back. I just think I think again, I have no inside information on this. Um, I know that the players have no inside information on this as well. At the end of the day, it's going to be boos. Call and boos call alone. I don't think at this point he's interested in hearing a vent. Um, now, the one thing I will say is, what the hell? If we go win an ACC championship this week, what if we go make it to Omaha? Is it going to be like a Kevin Keet situation in 2024, when he has all these clauses and escalators in his contract, it was sure look funny if that were, you know, and again, don't know if that's in his contract or not, but it would be the all it would be the most NC state stuff of all time. Well, hey, remember, uh, everybody was was saying that when, uh, Debbie fired Mike Garfield being like, yeah, well, wait, what if he wins ACC tournament, then he loses in round one. So yeah. And now again hopefully I, I, I truly I truly hope it doesn't happen. You know and I hope he go wins at all because I do want to just kind of shift here a little bit to legacy here Greg. And then we'll wrap up on a couple of small topics here. But legacy Elliott Avent NC state You know, here's my thing. I'll kind of summarize it in this way. He's the Dan Marino of NC state. He's he's the the the greatest to narrow our championship. Yeah. Now he's the greatest. He's one of the greatest of all times and never win a championship. If you were to if you were to line up, you know, all the the the greatest college baseball coaches in the history of college baseball to never win a championship. He'd be up there for sure. Like, you know, I'm just going off pure speculation. Like, like like the amount of accomplishments, like, this guy has accomplished everything else there is to do in college baseball except for winning an ACC or national championship. Now, once again, as we've said, you know, 2021 sure looked like, you know, a national championship was coming to him. But like we said, though, before, you know, we can't play the game of what ifs. He doesn't have a championship trophy in his in his in his in a showcase, which sucks. There's no doubt about it. Because he's he's I again, I used to be really privy on this when I was, you know, pushing on this a little bit more. But I think he's been to like 7 or 8 ACC Championship games and has never won and hadn't won a single. One of them, uh, highlighted 2021 when he lost. Freaking won nothing to Duke. Like, oh my God, dude. Like. Like. Like you watch that. You watch that team. Like. Like like like. Like. And you say, Greg, you know? Hey, guess what. Dukes going and score one run, and I'll let you bet as much money as you want on NC state. Winning. Like, like. Like you got the house like of course they're going to win, but damn. Yeah. So yeah. And you had the Trey Turner slide. You know in another ACC game you tried second row baby that awful that that that that's you know gotta haunt you know it. When I talked to Trey Turner a few years ago at a meet and greet for the Nats, this is I mean, it's so it's definitely been a while. Um, you know, that's still one of the things that grinds his gear, you know, if you wanted to do if he ever came on this program, we would have a grind his gear, uh, segment, and and we would let him, you know, have that moment, uh, to relive again. You know, what really grinds Mike is, um. Yeah. Straight. That would be Trey Turner. Um, but, you know, he's he's like, he's like Mike Martin with the only difference is, is like Martin won, like a lot of games, I think he still might be the NCAA all times winning leader, but he never won a national championship. But he did win. Like I think he like had 19 or 20. Combination of regular season and ACC championship titles. And really that's the only difference. Um you know people are you know non baseball people are going to hold the fact that he has zero championships. But he's won three super regionals to get to Omaha, which in my mind is like an unofficial championship. You get a trophy for it. So if you get a trophy I feel like that's kind of a championship. They don't just they don't hand out trophies just to hand them out unless you're like Little League and everyone gets one. Um, but yes, he, he never, you know, he never won in Omaha even though, you know, going three times. Um, you know, if, if the, if the fences were a little different the year trade turner, you know, hits that blast and it just gets knocked down at the warning track. Um, you know, things are different. Yeah. But, you know, his legacy is he's a great human being. He. He's the one of the greatest, if not the greatest ambassadors of NC state. At least from a coaching perspective. Um, I don't know too many coaches out there. Um, look, they named the they named the clubhouse after him. Uh, again, he was so instrumental in getting that built. Um, you know, one day he will be in the NC State Hall of Fame. There's. There's no doubt about that. Um, you know, those are his legacies. He he is the epitome. And look, Ray Tanner was a great coach. And for those that don't follow NC state baseball, that was the head coach before, uh, Coach Ben Avent was on his staff. Um, coach Turner goes, leaves to South Carolina, went to national championships. We won't talk about that right now. But, you know, if there was anyone that could replace coach Tanner, it was definitely Coach Avent. And he is definitely left the program. And the program was in good hands when he assumed it, right. But it's in an even better place now. Um, whenever it is done for, for him. Yep. No, absolutely. Again, just. I think you said it all, Greg. And I think we've said it again, just, you know, there's there's no doubt he's up there with, you know, I'm going to say it, you know, like the cow, the Jimmy V's of in terms of how much he's loved by N.C. state fans for sure. Yeah. And it's not even from a from a championship perspective. It's just what he embodies to the to the NC state fan base. Right. We're we're taking the wins and losses out of it. But there's there's more to a legacy than just necessarily wins and losses. And I think Coach Haven is that guy. Right. Like he has again we talked about it is over 1100 career runs career wins just at NC state alone. Um, he he he's done so much for so many people. Um, and that I think that, you know, he will be missed and you know, but the question becomes at the end of the day, Where are we at as a program? Right. We we had an early exit loss last year in a regional final in Auburn. Um, probably should not have lost to Stetson, though. It was a good, scrappy Stetson team. But on paper you should have won that game. And this year I know we've had injuries and we fought through those. And look, injuries are a part of the game, but it's having your team prepared to be able to absorb some of those injuries. Now the injuries we we took pretty significant right with your one and one a pitcher. I know maroon was Friday dude was Saturday. But I swear you could you can interchange them and you don't miss a beat. Um, it just depends if you want to go lefty Friday and Saturdays or lefty Friday, righty Saturday or reverse it like that's really the only difference. Like when you when you see them and you look at the numbers, the numbers are going to bear out there. They're pretty much what I just said. And again you, you got you took a hit at Mikey Ryan. Um, he's been out now for, um, since the Virginia the second game of the Virginia Tech series. So you know, you missed them on like, the last three, three weekends. Um, just some spot pinch inning here and there. It's a lot. It's a lot to absorb and all. And I'll say those are the last thing I'll say about this season. Because of these injuries, you had to rely so heavy on freshman pitchers like Luke Hamrick, um Ragusa and Aiden Kitchens. And why am I missing one? I'm missing one. Uh oh. Sam Harris. Yeah. Sam Harris. Sam, you've you've pitched really well over the last three weeks of the season. I apologize, I just brain farted there. And so if you can hold those three pitchers together Ragusa, Harris and Hemric, that's going to be a combo in the next two years. Right. So again, you know, and that was what we always projected with this trio of Cooper, Duden and Marone. The goal was their junior year to make the run to Omaha. Right. And so it just didn't work out because of injuries. And again, tomorrow was never promised. So you just got to go out and conquer the day. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And uh, again so you know excited to you know, you know, see what see what's to come with the rest of the season but also to as well. I mean, Greg, I mean we honestly we we didn't even mention the thing that that Avon's legacy is going to lean on the most. And that's the spin move, man. I mean, like, you know, like one of the greatest, you know, coaching clips of all time. Like, I don't know how you don't put a top 20 greatest, you know, coaching clips and and and college sports and I and not have that on there man. Like you know you know guy way past his his playing prime you know in his 50s and pulling a pretty dadgum good spin move. But also to again keeping the and and you add in the context of the fact that like he was going in standing up for, you know, his pitcher you know that did not get the the right side of a call that was going that way the entire time. And also but again, hey, you know what? The umpire, he he wanted the smoke and he got it. He didn't have to throw even out of that game. But he did. And that's a good point right. Like and I'm going to say this and it's going to sound like a negative and I don't I don't mean it. And this is really the last thing I want to say about this. Because guess what. The season's not over. Like we're acting like the season is over. There's, there's there is going to be some kind of postseason run here, whether it's whether it starts and stops in the ACC or it starts and stops and post that in the NCAA tournament, whether that's a regional, super regional or Omaha. Um, but you mentioned the loyalty, right? And that he was sticking up for his player. I think that is one of his greatest strengths and weaknesses. At the same time, I, I think he's loyal to a fault where, like, he likes to play his guys that have kind of been there, done that. And you've seen that this year at times and I won't name players, but if you watch the ball games, you can you can see and know what I'm talking about. Um, and, you know, he's just he. He trusts his guys, right? And and look, I, I will say this. I won't name any names from this team, but I'll take it back in 2024 when, um, Alex Sosa was. Oh, for 3104 34, whatever. That number was over 39. It was something like that. I don't I don't remember, but even in that slump, he's still stuck with him. He believed in him that much. And and he was rewarded, like Alex got it together and had probably one of the best postseasons, you know, in a little while. Right. That's still that moonshot that I, I'm maybe it's still orbiting around somewhere in Athens. Um, was just a monster moment for him. Um, but, you know, him sticking with guys a little longer. Um, you know, if it were me, I would have pulled the lead. I pulled pulled it, pulled the plug on some of these guys this year. Um, just because I'm an antsy fan, like, I'm not a guy that's been around the game for 40 plus years. And so he's seen a lot of things. And and again, that's just his style. So whether you want to call that a positive or a weakness, I'll let you make those decisions. But he is he is loyal to a fault. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So we'll end it there again and we'll see what what what. Time will tell for tomorrow

morning, 9: 1:01:56

00 am. I saw, uh, Benjamin here in the chat is going to be at the game again hoping to

see a live right there in Charlotte. Uh, tomorrow morning, 9:00, 10: 1:02:00

00 early. You know, get your mimosas in your in your bloody Mary's ready? Yep. No. Absolutely. So, uh, excited to see what what's to come. And then, you know, whenever decisions made, then we'll definitely you can bet your ass we'll have a podcast. What is that decision. Right. Yeah. What is that decision? Is that decision, you know, a tournament bid or are we done? And then if we're done, then it becomes the wait and see game. Um, exactly. You know, I, I, I again know inside information. I know I said it was the last thing I wanted to say. It would not surprise me That coach will be done. Bu will do the right thing among the fans. Right. But he'll also make the best decision that he thinks is better. I, I'm I'm saying the best move among the fans. He doesn't care about that when he cares about the fans, but not when making business decisions. He's going to do what's best that he thinks for his athletic department. Correct. Uh, I, I see a scenario where they they work it, they spin it positive because, again, that's what Avent should get and receive. Um, for everything that he's done. And I'm not calling this a lifetime achievement. He's earned all the accolades that he that he gets and things should be done the right way for him. Um, and again, I think this is where Bu has the ability to show that he cares to the fans. Right? Because again, boo has taken a lot of heat in the baseball fans eyes about how 21 was handled, whether he could have changed it or he couldn't. Doesn't matter. That ship has sailed. Um, I have my yeah, I have my opinions. And I won't share those here in the public eye because it doesn't. It doesn't matter what I think in those regards, but I think I think everyone can go home happy in this situation. The fans coach Avon boo. I think I think cooler heads will come together and do what's right. Bye bye everybody. At least, at least in my heart. I hope that's what happens. Because I think if, if, if Coach Avon has done nothing, he's earned that. Yeah. No 100%. And I actually do hope to as well because like there's a lot of talk about, you know okay, if this is Avon's last year then he should get, you know, of his rightful salute, you know, during one of the games. But that's not his. That's not his. That's not his style. Exactly. That's not he was embarrassed by the clubhouse being named. Like, that's not why he had those those enhancements in all of the facilities upgraded. He he didn't do that to get his name on a, on a, on a placard or on a wall, he did it for his players. Like, again, that's what leaders do. They, they they put their they put their people ahead of them and their agendas like they, they do what's best by their people. Like, yeah. Like if you're a supervisor at work, you know, whatever you do, what's right by them because they're going to take care of you by proxy. That's just how it works. Exactly. And again, like, like there's there's zero chance that he was going to take any of the spotlight off of his players and put it on him. Like it's just not not his interest at all. So time will tell. Now real quick shifting gears here away from baseball here. I want to give a shout, though. In a positive light though, to former NC state wrestler Tommy Gantt, man who was who's been absolutely impressive to say the least here starting off 11. And oh, as a professional in the UFC, uh, main field uh obviously highlighted this past Saturday uh, with a ko ko in, uh, second round UFC Fight Night. Yep, in Vegas on Paramount Plus. So like this is not just like a Joe Schmo minor league, you know quote win like this is it's not in Dorton Arena. Like it's no offensive Dorton Arena. So if you're watching Dorton Arena I apologize. Uh, this is it's it's the big show. It's not East coast McCombe. Like it's it's the UFC, baby. It's it's major leagues. Yeah. No. And so, so you know and and going to love and oh. And because one of the other points I want to point out as well is and then the UFC is just like I mean it's a business. And then they they're going to promote what's going to put butts in seats, what's going to put butts in seats, guys that are going to finish matches and not go to decision that are going to win by knockout, they're going to win by submission. You know, and so the fact that Tommy, you know, in his UFC debut could win by Ko. It just it it's even it's it's way bigger than just a win. It's it's truly like, wow, okay. Like, that's a guy I can watch, you know? And that's a guy that, you know, can be up for. For, for a, you know, a title. Uh, so and it also plays into his. Go ahead. Greg. No, I was just going to say to your point, like he's a wrestler by default. And from all things that I've heard and and seen and read, guys that have a wrestling background. Right. And you see that with with with gable. Steve is Gabe, is it Gable or Gabe Stevenson. Gable. Stevenson. Gable. Stevenson. You see how he's marching up through the ranks and what they say? Yeah. Like, same, same thing. Um, guys with a wrestling background tend to do better in the MMA because it's easier for them to learn jiu jitsu and and those type of martial arts than it is for those jiu jitsu martial arts guys to learn wrestling. So he already has a, uh, a a leg up, if you will, in, in, in in getting through, you know, the tears that he has to get to in order to potentially compete, and it sounded like he was ready to go. Like next week, again listening to his post-game interview just because he he's a little bit behind the power curve and getting a later start in his career. Yeah, well, it also plays into his benefit, as well as being trained by Daniel Cormier, who is a former UFC heavyweight and light heavyweight champion. Uh, so, like, it's no Joe Schmo for sure. It's backing him up. Uh, so which says a lot about Tommy and the fact that, you know, a guy like Daniel with his, you know, his his background, pedigree and resume his pedigree is investing in Tommy. So, so, like, one of my questions is, you know, what's Tommy's ceiling? I don't know what is his ceiling. We'll find out. What is it? What does he want it to be? Because I think I think he's the kind of guy where he was an All-American at NC state wrestling. Like, he he knows what it takes to be on the upper echelon of competition and being amongst the elite. Right. And I and I think he's the guy that you've seen because of that, willing to put in the work. Right. And to your point, like Daniel Cormier is not going to invest his time resources in a guy that's not serious about this. Great. Again, because Cormier his reputation is again, he's legendary. Like, I don't even I don't even follow MMA that closely. But I know who Daniel Cormier is. You know what I mean? Like like if you have any inclination of what MMA is, you you know, Daniel Cormier. I mean, like there's a couple of names like Conor McGregor. Like there's there's probably a handful of names that I could probably give you of, like John Jones, jock, jock, Joan Jones, Jon Jones, Jon Jones, Jon Jones. Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's just there's just some dudes out there that if you know anything about sports and MMA, those are the guys that ring off. So correct. To get that, that's that's an impressive. And I didn't know that he was being trained by him by the way. So thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Now with that being said, do you want to shift a little bit towards negative because this is a a this is this for me? I know we kind of looped it in with the Trey Turner thing, but this is really a you know, what really grinds my gears And that is man. I say trouble just got absolutely screwed this weekend, man. Competing for final legs. Yeah, I know, I guess you haven't seen the clip. No, I, I was traveling and doing things I, I, I yeah, yeah it I'll have to look it up. So basically and I don't have it put up because again I've been traveling so I didn't have. But basically it's very simple. It's very simple. So basically Isaac Trumbull uh was one match away from making it to final legs. And final legs is basically like consider like the national championship and aspect of if you win that match, you represent team USA in the World Championships. So even was sorry, Trumbull was one match away from getting the final legs to compete for an opportunity at a World Championship appearance. And so the guy who was going against it was like maybe a minute, a little less than a minute in the match. And, uh, Trumbull got him in a head pinch, which is basically you have the guy basically in a like you have his his head and his his shoulder wrapped up. So underneath, underneath your arm and you're you're squeezing him, right? You're squeezing them, controlling him. Uh, and basically what Trump will end up doing was he went to to turn him. Well, the problem is that as he turned them, his opponent passed out as he turned him. And so they originally called the pinfall. But then it got reviewed and they ended up taking away saying that was an injury default, uh, and basically restarting the match, uh, like as if it's an injury timeout basically. Uh, and then they so they restarted the match and Trump will end up losing 14, 11, 14, 12. Uh, so but here's my thing. So I guess obviously while you're watching it here Greg here live. So I guess we'll get your reaction live to it. Here's my issue with it is listen like especially in wrestling, it's all about like, you know, they say like reaction time, like, you know, like giving opportunity. Like, Trumbull had already put all the work in to that point. Like at the end of the day, like it was the it was like the opponent had his own free will and and by his own free will, he still let Trumbull get to that point. So it like, listen, like the fact that he passed out as he was turning him, it was like like the the damage was done like like it was going to happen. Trumbull was going to pin the guy. He was going to do damage. And, you know, on the match right then and there. So like, listen, I get it in the aspect of like, okay. Like if they're wrestling safety. Yeah. Player safety. But also even too like like if, like if if if if you know, like Trumbull like let's say just the guy just falls over and you just go and jump on him and and it's a pinfall okay. That's, that's not what this is like. Like this was literally Trumbull was about to get him there. And literally the guy passing out saved him like like that. That's not how it should be. Like then they Trumbull should have been rewarded as just period. And because there's there's too much to that's on the line here. Again, opportunity to go and be one match away from competing for team USA, the World Championships. I mean, this is what guys dream of man like. And this is a guy that again like is is has worked his butt off man to get here. Uh, you know, just won a national title. So, you know, I think that at the end of the day, like he did enough to win the match, he got to that position. And at the end of the day, it was the opponent's free will that was about to lose him that match. And the only reason why he did not lose that match was because he passed out. Like to me, that's that's not right. Simple as that. So you know. But yeah that's my hill die on here. So yeah, that's a I mean that's close. I mean like it was like bang, bang. Like you could tell that the guy was going into distress and that he didn't have control of any of his body movements? Sure. Um, yeah. I don't know, like, the NC state fan of me is like, no way that guy was getting out of that move. But then the the non NC state in me is like maybe like I don't know. Like yeah it's just it's a it's a it's tough and unfortunate and trouble. Definitely deserved a better a better outcome. Uh so how did the match actually end. Because you didn't have the clip in that. But what what what end up would end up happening in the long run of the match? So sports I think it was 14, 11, 14, 12 final score. Um, so did he lose his points for at least getting him in that position? Um, yeah. No, he didn't get any points. Yeah. See, that's where I have a problem. Because the move the move happened before the the pass out. Like he should have gotten the move. And then you take off the pin and then you reset from that point. If he if he lost the the, the, the takedown for that, that's where I would have the issue in that, in that ruling, I don't have a problem with them stopping the play. Um, but he should have gotten credit for, for for up to that point. Yep. Nope. Didn't get anything. So, yeah. No. Again, it's a fine line for sure. But again Greg in because like this this is this is why I'm, I'm standing on this. Like, if we're talking about just a simple dual match, okay. Like, you know, I get it. Better safe than sorry. Whatever. But this is one match away from the finals of representing team USA at the world. No, that's where it says this is big time, man. Like, you know, and at the end of the day, like it's it's, in my opinion, the same kind of move as a cradle. Like at the end day, it's a very awkward position, you know for sure. But then they if you get him there, you have a 90% chance. As long as you have a little enough time, you're going to win that match right then and there. Like it's pretty much almost impossible. Get out of getting out of that head, pinch with your shoulder and your arm together like that. You're in an extremely tough situation there. My friend. So. Yeah. No. Agreed? Yeah. Agreed. It's. It's very unfortunate. And he deserved a better outcome. I will agree with that statement. Yeah. Now to wrap it up here. Also to you as well to give the flowers here to women's tennis. Uh, unfortunately was not able to pull off the huge upset. Uh, verse number one Georgia in Athens this past weekend, losing 4 to 1. Uh, again, like, you know, we had, uh, uh, you know, Brian, uh, Earnshaw. Uh, sorry, sorry. Brian Rosenthal I'm sorry, it's Earnshaw. Rosenthal. It's pretty close. Uh, Brian Rosenthal, former NCAA men's tennis player, came on last week. Talked a little bit about it. And, I mean, and he even said like, you know, this is this is a huge uphill battle that really comes down to can estate women's tennis win the doubles point. And unfortunately they were not able to do it. And then from there it was unless an absolute miracle happened, it wasn't going to happen. And unfortunately it didn't. But with that being said, once again, it was still a phenomenal season. To say the least. A women's doubles national championship and ACC championship. Only the second time in program history I've made it. Yep. Both under Coach Earnshaw made it to the Elite eight. Uh, you know, so. And you still have Maslama, who's only a sophomore. So, you know, between her and Coach Earnshaw, you're excited about what next season can hold. And again, you know, it just it it's still, in my opinion, was one of the best seasons in state women's tennis history. And you can't say any different. Well, and we always talk about this with other sports. Right. It's like you go out and win some kind of championship. Right. Whether it's a conference championship, individual championship. You're you're stacking those blocks. You're stacking those bricks. Right. And and as much as he keeps doing this Kirk or Coach Earnshaw to be exact, he's going to keep drawing more talent to the program. Um, and, you know, he's got a very good European background having, you know, being from England originally. So he's able, you know, to get really good folks to come to Raleigh and the city of Raleigh, as you're seeing is it's self recruiting itself. It's a great city to live in. It's not a quote unquote college town where there's nothing to do. Um, you know, we've talked about this before. Anyone that listens to the podcast is very familiar with Raleigh, so I don't need to tell you what Raleigh has to offer in, in the surrounding areas. And, and so if you can just catch a little a little momentum. Right. And then you build. Right. You know, 20 2022 was the ACC championship. And we got to, uh, the finals of, of nationals, you know, and then 20, 24, two years later, we're right back at it with another ACC championship. And by the way, the ACC in tennis is stacked like we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. Um, state was the number nine seed in the country. And there were two other ACC programs that were ranked ahead of them. Um, so it's it's it's not an easy task or an easy path to get to a championship. Um, but but you see the type of talent that he's, he's coach is bringing in, and I think he just keeps getting better. Um, and I don't see it. I don't see it slapping, stopping or slowing down. I said slopping right isn't stopping and slowing. Um, but this is kind of the things that we're talking about with Coach Avent. Like, like does bu I will come full circle and wrap it. Does Bu have that same confidence level in Coach Haven and sees a path where we're going to win an ACC championship in the next year or two, or we're going to compete for national championships, right? If his answer is yes, then yes. I think you take away the age thing, right? Like, you know, people say, you know, 30 years, 70 years old, but if he's competing at a high level like I, you know, it's he's going to he's going to stick around. Um, and this is a program that hasn't fallen off. Like we're still making playoff appearances or regionals or Super Regionals or College World Series. Like, we've been there the last couple of years, but I said we got we got eliminated early last year in a in a regional. I know it was the regional final, but we, we we weren't really competitive in that. Um, and you know, you saw the talent that left and the talent that's, you know, there's some guys out there that left this program that are having very, very good years. Um, I'm looking at your own so-so, but, uh, you know what? You know, if we were able to retain that talent, you know, um, if we don't make a regional this year, what, you know, to me, if I'm the if I'm the GM or the ad in this case, is my program turning in the right direction? You know, I got eliminated early last year in the, you know, in the in the tournament didn't make it this year. And then you add all now you add all those factors the age how long he's been there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's where that part comes into it for me. right. So yeah. No. Absolutely. So that being said, Wolf Pack Nation will wrap it up there. I just want to first of all say thank you so much again for joining us. We really do appreciate it. Uh, if you're listening to us, we really do appreciate that as well. If you wouldn't mind doing us a favor, do us a huge favor. Actually. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Hit that like button. If you haven't already hit those buttons, that means they're lining up for you right now. So that means smash them here, right here, right now. Make sure you give us a follow tough talk now on Twitter. And also to as well if you're listening to us on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, uh, wherever you listen to us, do us a big, big favor. Leave us a five star review. Greatly appreciate that as well. But with that being said, Wolfpack Nation, we will see you all soon. Let's be Dukes tomorrow and let's make it a run here. And uh, let's see what happens. And we'll talk more about it here once there's more to share. But with that being said, Wolf Pack Nation, as always, y'all go pack, y'all.