Meditation, The Imagination And The Self | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.126

Meditation, The Imagination And The Self | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.126
Recorded on 22 January 2023 with US participants.

Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang 

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
3:13 Concentrating the mind and sight and then watching in meditation
15:01 Importance of remembering Pure Consciousness even when we are not experiencing it?
16:01 What is imagination?
17:12 The mind and pure consciousness
19:22 What does Babaji mean by the universe is the imagination of a bigger consciousness?
22:30 How do we acquire habits and what effect do they have on our life?
29:45 How does Babaji see the world as a Self Realized person?
34:29 How can we turn around the obstacle of time into peace?
37:39 If one wants to go for more meditation, is it better to extend the period of an hour or better to wait to do a separate sitting?
40:25 The difference between Christianity and going inwards in meditation
45:06 What did Ramana Maharshi mean with the word 'choiceless' when he said "effortless, choiceless awareness is our true nature"
46:27 If someone takes an oath in one lifetime, if that oath doesn't serve well in another lifetime, how to break such habits?
52:15 When we experience a moment of silence in meditation is that a glimpse of pure consciousness?
53:19 Before Tapas, can we know for certain that one single Self exists?
55:33 What is the value of the notion of liberation in this world which has only an appearance value?
57:11 How to find real peace in this world?

__ 
Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang 

Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shivarudrabalayogi/

Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang

Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shivarudrabalayogi/

Transcript

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji - online Q and A No. 126
 Meditation, The Imagination and The Self
You tube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L992Jja6DI
Recorded: 22 January 2023

Babaji Maharaj Commences:

   It is the mind which needs to become quiet.  That is the mantra you have to remember.  It is the mind which needs to become quiet.  That means it is you who have to become quiet.  You as the consciousness of existence, you as that mind, all these things you have assumed different forms.  You as That have to remain quiet so that you are in That only, the ultimate truth.  Just you have to watch in between eyebrows.  And any thoughts or visions appearing, do not have to bother, must not bother.  Just watch.  Don't try to call anybody good or anybody bad.  Don't call anything to this world, good or bad during meditation, then you see the wonder of how you can remain quiet.  

   Ready, prepare yourself, relax and forget the outside world.  There is an inside world that you have to deal with, that which you have imagined in your mind and you have to quieten this mind.  That is the challenge.  And it becomes simple when you accept the challenge and you sportively, with all enthusiasm you want to do it.  You simply have to watch it.  

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Thank You, Baba for being with us today, and everybody else.  So, if you have questions people, just formulate them as succinctly as possible.  And Baba, my sister-in-law gave me a shirt for Christmas.  And it's got your message on it.   “If it costs you your peace, it’s too expensive”

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, so wonderful the message is.  Peace is the real valuable thing.  You cannot afford to lose it, peace.  And if you gain the whole world and lose your own mental peace, you have lost.  Just like Jesus told, if you have won the world and lost to yourself, you have lost.  When you win over yourself, even if you lose the whole world, you have won.  Lovely message.  Appreciate it.  

Question:   So as usual, I’ll ask a few questions.  Then as we see questions pile up, I'll get out of the way.  First question, Baba is about the practice, just to discuss a little bit, there's three parts.  First part, “Sit comfortably”, second part “Concentrate your mind and sight between your eyebrows”, and the third part is “Just watch”.  So, just want to talk a little bit about the concentrating of mind and sight and the just watching.  Because when we start out with meditation, the concentration, concentrating your mind and sight between the eyebrows means focusing your attention between the eyebrows.  That takes a little bit of effort.  And then eventually you shift into just watching, but watching is being aware without thinking.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, we can say that.  

Question:   And so, it seems meditation is a play between this concentrating the mind and sight and just watching.  It goes back and forth for most people until you're able to obtain samadhi, or deeper, real, deep meditation.  Concentrating your mind and sight, focusing your attention, sometimes people might have to do that for a while.  I know myself sometimes I sit down and it just takes a minute and I am into watching.  But sometimes my mind is busy and it doesn't want to stay there.  So, I spend more time concentrating my mind and sight, just trying to keep with a little gentle.. gently, not forcing, gently trying to keep my attention there.  And automatically it goes to watching.  But if I try to jump to watching too quickly, not focusing my attention long enough, I can get into kind of a dreamy space.  I'm not really meditating.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, the thing is you close the eyes, just remain relaxed.  So, automatically the focus comes.  Here, after some time I've been talking, even if you are unable to remain focused in between eyebrows, anywhere if it can remain focused, is good enough, because the idea is, it has to remain quiet.  Not that it is going to watch something other than itself.  It has to become aware of itself.  Watching itself means becoming aware that it exists in this way.  So, there your focus settles down.  So, that is important for that.  

So, when you close the eyes, just remain relaxed and just be there, and you will see that your eyeballs also start looking into that consciousness of existence, is what I have explained.  So, there it settles, then you have the peace.  So, this is how you have to practice. That's why I keep telling - relax, be gentle to yourself, gently close your eyes, don't be in your rush, don't do anything abruptly, [Babaji inhales] take a long inhale exhale.  Haaah [Babaji exhales] See the relief.  When you feel relieved, “O God, the problem is over.”  That relief gives you a long inhale and exhale [Babaji exhales] - along with that the mind also settles down.  So, that happens automatically would be much better than you trying to do struggling to bring both eyeballs here and it's running.  

And this is one, another is that, that is the reason we want you to sit for at least one hour.  It takes time, the beginning you have to put efforts, ten minutes, fifteen minutes, even thirty minutes it can be a struggle.  So, then after that it may start settling once the mind is tired; as you go on doing every day the mind becomes relaxed.  It won't go after the thoughts for long time.  So, very quickly ten minutes, fifteen minutes it will come under control, then it settles down.  So, this is recommended, this is okay.  You don't have to worry that precisely you have to be in between eyebrows only.  Simply one target is given so that using the eyeballs you can fix the eyeballs and simply keep watching there.  So, you should not visualize anything, do not expect anything also.  So, these are important things, then meditation becomes smooth.  

Question:   So, Baba, You say not to put much emphasis on concentrating your mind and sight?  

Babaji Maharaj:   Why I told this point, unnecessarily your mind might get into agitations.  “O, this is not happening, this may not be for me, it's difficult.”  So, like that you don't have to struggle or worry; just relax.  Because the idea is mind has to become quiet.  It doesn't have to watch anything other than itself.  So, watching itself turns there of becoming aware of itself.  When it becomes silent, it is aware of itself.  That is what is needed.  So that's why I try to allow, whatever is easy for you, you just practice as you are telling.  So, just relax and settle on yourself.  So, you find it very easy.  So, then people can adopt that also.  They don't have to be worrying “O, I am unable to bring the concentration in between eyebrows.”

Question:   Okay, the thing is, I think the average person's mind is very active, Baba, and it does not want to come into control easily.  And, it doesn't have to be between the eyes, but the deliberate thing of focusing your attention does keep your mind momentarily from wandering and getting involved and meshed in thoughts in your drama of the day or whatever problems you're dealing with.  If you don't do something, you're just going to sit there and daydream.  I mean, you might relax, but you won't…

Babaji Maharaj:  Become quiet.

Same questioner: You won't become quiet.  You'll be caught in your thinking.  So there takes some deliberate gentle awareness, but You're right.  I mean, I know it's been so many years of meditating, it's easy for me to watch between my eyebrows.  But when I started, I remember it wanted to be out here, it didn't want to be here (pointing to in-between eyebrows).  I know never do you force anything in meditation, you're doing something wrong if you're forced to do something.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly, that's what I'm trying to tell.  You don't have to struggle to do only one thing, whichever is easier for you than adopt and just go ahead.  Because you see, bringing both eyeballs into one point, that technology helps you, the mind to dissolve in itself and become a pure consciousness and expand into the purest form.  That's what would be helpful if that is possible for you.  Like in any photograph or drawing, the road starts with a width like this, and as it proceeds it narrows down and it comes to a single point like that in the drawing.  So sometimes, I have heard people calling it as the ‘vanishing point’ when you are watching towards the road.  The same way here, as long as the eyeballs are away, the distance is there within an illusion.  So, when the distance is there, then imagination pops up, it keeps spinning.  The thoughts and visions keep coming, keep coming.  But if the eyeballs can be slowly, steadily - you need patience, not in a rush, no rush.  Don't be harsh on you, just be gentle.  Try to just watch. That's why next point what I teach is, just try to watch the front portion.  Don't bother at that moment whether the eyeballs are here or here or what it is.  Just don't bother.  Just watch.  Then ‘stop’ means, stop the eyeballs, don't allow it to move.  Try that it steadily stays there.  Then wherever it stays, through the eyes, just keep watching.  Then you will see automatically, slowly and slowly, gradually, the eyeballs start coming towards one direction, both of them.  Then the visions, distance, decreases, it starts coming closer and closer to you.  Then the two, duality vanishes and it becomes single-pointed one day.  So in this way if your practice, it also can be very helpful, or you just relax and try to concentrate on the consciousness of existence, if that is easier for you without bothering the eyeballs, or the eyeballs coming together, anything, because after all, finally you have to quieten yourself.  

Question:   So, what You're saying is, don't obsess too much about focusing between the eyebrows - you do need to focus your attention, but don't obsess about where it is.  

Babaji Maharaj:   It should not become a worry.  That's why Swamiji always was unique, like telling “Sitting in any comfortable posture”.  Ancient scriptures might talk of a lotus posture of sitting like this and doing like this.  Then people might struggle unnecessarily, “O I'm unable to sit like that, meditation is not for me.”  No, not at all like that.  You sit any comfortable posture.  If you find it comfortable on the chair, you sit. Just try to keep the back and neck straight.  We have told even, you want to sit onto the wall, keeping a pillow behind you, cushion, whichever way you feel comfortable.  So, like that, for any reason, do not give up meditation, whichever way is possible, you adapt and keep going.  Take care that you become quiet, you don't analyze, you don't make judgments, you don't bother.  These are the important points which you have to take care.  Then the rest happens automatically, amazing truths get revealed.  

Question:   Baba, what's the important of remembering, ‘I am pure consciousness,’ even if we're not experiencing it?

Babaji Maharaj:   So that you don't get attracted to the thoughts or this world's materialistic vision.  Everything is impermanent.  So, you are able to bring away your consciousness from any visions, any worldly visions,  from all the sensory organs.  If it is into the sensory organ, it will be actively moving, spinning, imagining.  So, it gets to hear something, then it further imagines and magnifies.  It gets to see something, then it starts getting involved into thoughts, hundreds, thousands, everything.  So, this thing starts happening.  So, thus, you can avoid.  So, if you just concentrate, so that is the idea.  

Question:   Usually, people think of imagination as something that exists in the mind which can be real or unreal, but it exists in the mind.  What is imagination? 

Babaji Maharaj:   It is a capacity that is within the energy and consciousness.  The consciousness, it can become creative by imagining.  It won't really create anything, because except that Self, nothing else exists in reality.  Nothing else has any existence value.  Everything else is only appearance value.  Just like in your mind, only your mind has the existence value, anything that appears in the mind has only appearance value and no existence value.  Though the appearance is truth, but it is actually not the truth.  That is how this world is.  So, that's what is important.  

Question:   So, when You said ‘mind’ there, You also meant just consciousness.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Consciousness.  Yes.  

Question:   Because You've said when thoughts are present in consciousness, you call that ‘mind’.  When there are no thoughts in consciousness, you call that ‘pure consciousness’.  

Babaji Maharaj:   We need to invent some terminology to give a clue, make others understand what it is.  Because here, consciousness, before it gets applied to its own imagination, is consciousness.  It can get applied to its own imaginations, any such thing, so then it becomes mind.  That means the consciousness itself is the beginning of corruption.  Why I am telling this?  Because it is in the form of consciousness, it can jump into imaginations.  Once it jumps into imaginations, it can lose control over itself.  So, like that step after step, it goes on getting corrupted.  Corrupted here means it acquires wrong habits to keep on doing and forget to become quiet at all.  Like that, it can go a long distance in imagination.  So, that needs to be avoided.  So, if you can keep into the pure consciousness level, from there the merger becomes easier.  If you are consistently able to hold onto that pure consciousness, that is what is ‘just watch,’ just being there, thus into the meditation, until it gets into a level of tapas.  Slowly, slowly, no need to be in a rush.  Slowly, if you go, you can achieve better.  In a rush, you are likely to lose the grip over that one, by losing temper or by becoming irritated.  That is why patience; very, very important here.  They are dedicated, disciplined approach, and patience.  

Question:   So, Baba, would You say imagination is the creative power of consciousness? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  

Question:   And so, one time You said, actually I've heard it a couple times, the universe is the imagination of a bigger consciousness.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  Giving the first clue, like your mind.  Whatever is in your mind, it is the mind's creation.  And technology is imagination.  By imagining, it has used its creative power, and when it has deeply involved into its own creation, it has brought into a solidness, solid appearance.  That is all in your mind.  See, how much one's own mind believes whatever is in the mind, people believe that to be the truth.  Now, always a bigger thing can create a smaller thing.  This is the thing.  Means a consciousness has to be bigger - for all the objects that are in the mind, mind is simply all pervaded.  For here, for us, it may not be visible.  In the same way, because this universe…we are only a tiny, micro speck part, with this body whatever role we play, just sticking on to the earth like an ant.  So, that's why we cannot handle this universe creation.  So, this universe has been created by a higher consciousness, much more powerful, much more spread, all pervaded.  So, our mind has to become one with that big consciousness.  Then, we can get rid of this universe and merge into ourselves, achieving supreme peace, total liberation, realizing that there is nothing that we need or nothing that can disturb us, nothing that can destroy us, totally secure and peaceful existence.  So, now people understand the value of peace, that peace which nobody can rob, nothing, because it doesn't depend on any object or anything.  If you depend on your t-shirt for your peace, somebody else can come and snatch that t-shirt.  Simply you have the peace and you cherish somebody gifting that to you, that infinity, somebody gifting out of love and care, that gives more peace, better peace, better quality peace, that nobody can rob that one.  So, like that, we overcome the effect of the materialistic world and go to the infinity of real love and peace.  

Question:   Baba, You're the shirt for all of us reminding us that we're the peace.  Thank You.  Let's see.  You mentioned acquired habits.  This is something that plagues all of us.  We have good habits and we have…  I mean good habits are habits that serve us well and we have bad habits that don’t serve as well.  But how do we, you know, You’ve talked about desire and then fulfillment of desires and impressions that created acquired habit.  How do we acquire habits and what effect does that have on our life? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Mind imagines a thought; watching that thought mind forgets this thought is there simply because of my imagination and not a reality.  Instead of that, mind gets involved into the thought further, analyzing, recognizing that it is there, it exists and then analyzes whether it is good or bad, mine or not mine, “I need to own.”  I have imagined a thing which never existed and now I want to own that which does not exist.  See how the mind has got involved now.  It is so much worried to own a substance which does not exist at all.  It has created and it is thinking it belongs to it.  So, then it makes a judgment.  “Yes, this is mine.  This is apple, this is mango.”  Once it decides, at all times, always it is mango.  Whenever it comes across that substance it instantly tells, “Hey what is this?  This is mango.”  Suppose if I come and tell “This simply you have imagined, does not even exist.  What exists is Divinity, one all pervaded, ultimate truth.  Within that you have imagined and that's why this is appearing to you.”  Like we were talking, this universe has been imagined by a higher consciousness.  Means if your consciousness is of ten percent potency, when this consciousness of what has given you as a personality, was with its hundred thousand potency consciousness, whatever it imagined has become a solid world for you now, solid universe.  So, by being as a ten percent consciousness you cannot get rid of this because you are a part of this.  You have to reach that consciousness, hundred thousand potency.  Then you can withdraw this.  Now whatever is in your mind you can withdraw by practicing meditation just by watching and not bothering whatever it is.  

So, that is how mind acquires habits.  Once it acquires a habit that firmly sits as an idea.  “This is mango, this is mine” - that idea sits.  Or “Somebody is very good, somebody is very bad, this person is so bad,” and starts imagining all the bad qualities that it can imagine - all that sits in the mind.  It corrupts the mind.  So, the mind has acquired that habit.  When the mind has acquired that habit, it keeps in infinity but whenever it wants to think that thought appears.  That is the acquired habits of the mind.  Sometimes, in the psychological, what they call it as a subconscious state.  We can accept subconscious state but nothing really such exists within the mind.  Mind is simply infinity.  In imagination only. When it gets applied to the brain that imagination starts coming up because that is there as a habit.  Just like, just now you may not be using any wrong language, you are quiet.  Suddenly something if triggers; if you become annoyed or if you become unhappy you may start using a wrong language.  From where did it come?  Nobody knows the source.  It has come out of nothing because the infinity appears to be just nothing.  Mind does not appear to be anything at all.  From that only it has come up.  So that is what we call it is there in the mind as an acquired habit which forms the attitude of the mind.  That becomes the attitude of the mind.  Whenever you come across such person that is your attitude and you will show that attitude to that, anybody, to this world.  So that is how it remains there, acquired habits what we call and then it shows the attitude.  

Based on this attitude further thoughts are generated, thought after thought you get involved into the whirlpool.  And you become so confused, don't know how to get rid of that.  These thoughts are giving you stress, tremendous amount of stress and one is so confused.  If anybody can help me to get rid of these thoughts so that I can have peace. Sssst [Babaji makes a cooling down noise]. Peace, composed peace.  That is what we call beyond bliss.  That is the meditation practice.  You just have to get rid of all this without bothering what is this, why I should get rid.  You have to get rid then only you have peace.  Either you have peace or you have stress.  Either you have thoughts or you have the quietness.  If there is quietness there is peace.  If there is thought it brings both – stress, sometimes happiness, sometimes unhappiness.  It doesn't keep quiet into one.  So, we might start with good thoughts, thinking “O we have all good thoughts.”  Good are always welcome.  In this world it is welcome but not for you.  Because you are likely to slip into a bad also.  You try to be a good guy.  Anytime anything of this world can make you a bad guy, you never know.  So that is why get rid of both.  We don't need.  We don’t need either the good or bad.  You help somebody is no problem.  For that you don't expect that somebody has to recognize you as a good man.  No need.  That is my nature, we will help it.  Nobody, we don't need the certificate from somebody that I am a very good person.  I am good, that is good enough for me.  These are some of the points of how the acquired habits happen.  

Question:   Thank you, Baba.  That was beautiful.  Just one more question.  How do You see the world Baba and how do You see us as an enlightened person or Self-realized person? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Only a vague vision is there, but the mind it doesn't become a mind, my consciousness.  It doesn't imagine, it is totally aware, whatever this appearance is only appearance value; it is not useful for me or my existence or my peace in any way.  Without all these things, even if the entire universe disappears, even if this body disappears, that Self is always at peace.  For that only everybody with the hands and legs and all strength, all the wealth and health one keeps trying.  We want happiness.  We want peace.  We want enjoyment.  We want this world for enjoyment.  We want enjoyment, we want this world for enjoyment.  But one has become aware.  I don't want this world for my enjoyment.  I am happy.  Without anything I am happy.  So, this appears as a vague dream.  This doesn't register in my mind.  For a while, I might try and be able to hold on to that if I need to act upon on something of this world, sometimes.  But if I give up the grip it simply disappears, dissolves.  It doesn't stay in the mind.  Like you write on the white paper, it quickly erases.  Before it erases, you read if you want to read otherwise it's gone.  Anybody has behaved badly, anybody has behaved very good way, these things don't stay.  It's all over.  So, any person has criticized me, that doesn't sit in the mind long time - very quickly it gets erased.  I am at peace, no any imagination, no brooding.  No anxiousness that this person has behaved badly.  So, like that it remains in its quietness.  The Self remains in peace.  We don't even need any awareness of myself now.  Because it's gone deeply merged.  Because awareness also it brings up to a level.  You are aware of yourself.  That also disappears when the merger happens.  

Question:   I that when the ‘I am-ness’ kind of blends back…  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  

Question:   So, Baba when You say vague dream, it sounds like something not clear.  But You're the clearest person I’ve ever known.  

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, clearest person in the sense; knowing about the Self.  I may not know everything of this world.  I may not have the correct knowledge for every subject, every operation, everybody who is living in this world.  For that you have to go deep into this world and understand the worldly knowledge.  But clear means “This is it. The Self is this.”  The Divinity or the ‘I,’ that we are clear.  Nobody can disturb or make me move or confuse me in any way.  Means not one person.  The entire universe.  Imagine the strength of this universe.  Potency, hundred thousand potency consciousness which has created with such concentration.  That's how this appears so solid.  A brick is thrown on the head, head breaks and the blood comes out.  Don't expect that that will not happen.  Such is the amazing strength.  But yet the consciousness is detached now, is free, liberated.  So at peace, no stress what the world will give. When we disappear physically, whether the world will criticize us, worship us, there is no such anxiousness.  It happens; both will be there.  Some will worship, some will criticize, some will accept the teaching, some will understand the teaching, some will not understand the teaching.  

Question:   So, Baba with us, most of us anyway, the world seems clear and the Self seems vague.  But for You, the Self seems clear and the world seems vague.

Babaji Maharaj:   

Very true.  Exactly - it is opposite. 

Question:   

Hi, Babaji.  There was something on Instagram with Swamiji this week.  It quoted Him saying, “We must welcome obstacles, because they show us our strength.”  My question is in the context of work.   Somedays, I get lots of urgent cases and need to go fast which I usually do okay with.  My question is how can I turn around the obstacle of time, which is illusory anyway, into peace? Time really has only appearance value as You've been using that wonderful metaphor.  I just wondered if You could expand on that.  Thank You.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Anything that is obstructing your peace, we need to get rid of that.  See here, the time is useful only for this world.  If you are operating, if you have to travel, if you have to live, for that then the time becomes important.  But if you are giving up everything, you are just settling to the Self, at peace, mentally at peace, then you don't need the time.  Because it is beyond the time, the peace is beyond the time, the Self is also beyond the time.  Just like if you are on the earth, you need the directions – east, west, north, compass, everything is useful.  So, within certain…  If you go into the center of space, everything is lost.  And it may not be needed at all.  So, when you become space, you are simply all pervaded.  

So, like that, time is useful only in this world.  But when you are meditating and going beyond, to the Self, you don't need the time at all.  That is the liberation.  Means you don't depend on time.  At all times the peace is there now.  Nothing can disturb your peace once you achieve that.  So, then the time cannot disturb.  Suppose for example, if we depend on the physical body for our happiness, that time disturbs.  Until we were young, we were teenage, we were totally healthy, so happy, excitement about this world, running here and there.  As the aging process has started, so that time has started troubling us now.  Because we are depending on the worldly object for our happiness.  So, the same body through which we were deriving happiness has started giving unhappiness.  So, that's what happens when we depend on the time factor - which is needed for this world, but for our peace and happiness, this time is not needed.  We have to cross the barrier of time and space.  

Same Questioner:   Thank You.  Thank You so much.  

Question:   Hello Baba.  Ram, Ram.  Very nice to see You, Jai Baba my Guru.  Baba, if one is going in for more meditation sitting, is it better to attempt to extend the period of an hour or is it better to wait and do a separate sitting? 

Babaji Maharaj:   First, you must get used to sitting comfortably for one hour, both physically and mentally.  Once you are comfortable with that one hour, then you can start extending.  So, all the time you must feel comfortable.  It should not be a heart-losing struggle.  Then you won't like to sit for many times.  So that's what happens.  First, achieve the comfort of one hour.  Means in that one hour, physically you are able to sit comfortably.  Then comfortably you are able to keep the mind quiet, just watching.  Achieve that fun, watching; all the one hour you are just watching and you have no other thought at all.  Then you extend step by step.  Maybe another one hour, another one hour, like that.  

Same Questioner:   And just to clarify something Baba because I was unsure whether it's suggested that for a period, you are having your eyes open to learn that focus, or always you are doing that eyes closed only?  

Babaji Maharaj:   During tapas, always I used to do only closing the eyes.  And before that also, like for twenty years I was serving, whenever I sat for meditation, it was with closed eyes.  So, what I would have mentioned is - sometimes like during night when I had to go to bed and switch off the light, at that time I would gaze at Swamiji's photo so that the mind remains there single-pointedly, then switch off the light.  Then the mind would absorb that one.  So, with that it would always remain single-pointed and just go into peace.  Swamiji's appearance for me was so peaceful.  Watching Swamiji either on a photo or physically I had that fortune to watch Him for twenty years physically.  So, that's what I practiced for some time but not for very long time.  Swamiji prohibited watching any object matter for long time.  He advocated by closing the eyes only you meditate.  

Question:   Good to see you, Baba.  Thanks so much.  Last night I was at a church service, Catholic church mass.  And it struck me that in Christianity the disciple gives their life to Jesus.  They're giving their life to the Master.  And then they try and do work in the world that is like representative of Him.  And then after they die, they go to heaven and they're living in God's presence for eternity.  And in our practice here the whole focus is to go inside, Self-realization.  And with Christianity it feels like the work is done in the world.  It's about serving others and serving Christ.  So, in some ways they feel the same and in other ways they feel different.  How do You see the difference between these two? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Perhaps all religions teach the same thing.  But the meaning that people understand can differ sometimes if the master is unable to explain thoroughly.  The same thing like in Hinduism is explained as a karma yoga, means you serve.  Serve doesn't mean that you have to be in the ashram of a Master only.  Anywhere you're able to help somebody that you are serving.  So, with the prayer, “Let this service reach the Lotus Feet of my Master.”  Thus, you are giving yourself to Jesus, to the Master with your prayer and the mind, consciousness.  So that's what is happening.  Now, going to the heaven doesn't mean that your body gets dropped and you travel to some other world.  Finally, as your mind is becoming quiet and quiet, it is losing its desires.  It is quiet with the results and it has learnt to accept things.  Because everything you are doing for sake of the service to the Master, service to Jesus; anything you can consider, it's no problem.  Thus, your mind is giving up the world and settling into the Lotus Feet of the Master, mind.  Such a mind becomes eligible by becoming purified to merge with the Self.  That Self is what some people might, who wouldn’t have understood, talk as heaven.  Like if you have read, some points that we got to read about Jesus, He spoke of father, kingdom, holy spirit, all these things.  So that if people could have misunderstood, the kingdom He spoke is the same ultimate truth, all pervaded Divinity.  That's what other terminologies - nirvana by Buddha; like these different teachers used different terminologies.  Like Jesus also said, the kingdom will not come as you expect or you would imagine.  It will come in its own way.  Means it is not a physical empire or any such thing.  You are not going to be… ‘in the presence of the Master’ means you merge, your consciousness, merges with the Supreme Consciousness.  That is the heaven.  When you have peace, you can call it either heaven or the Divine's abode, different terminology - it is all the same.  So, this is what will happen eventually.  With the karma yoga because you are not having any expectations, you are allowing every service, wherever you do any service, any help to anybody, you consider it as a service.  And then you are offering it to the Lotus Feet of the Master, to Jesus.  So, your consciousness is becoming quiet and quiet with acceptance.  Finally, it merges with the ultimate truth.  That is the kingdom.  That is the heaven.  So, this is what the truth is.  Hope I am clear.  You could understand?

Same Questioner:   Yeah, it is pretty good.  So, the kingdom of heaven and Self-realization is the same?

Babaji Maharaj:   Same.  Same. 

Same Questioner:   Okay.  Thank You. 

Question:   Yes.  Thank You so much, Baba.  Just had a question on a quote from Ramana Maharishi.  So, He said “Effortless, choiceless awareness is our true nature”.  But the word there that kind of surprised me is ‘choiceless.’  So, in that state is there no choice?

Babaji Maharaj:   Let me tell you - first thing, effortless.  When you practice, practice, practice and that practice becomes natural, then effortlessly you are into that state.  You don't have to put special effort to get rid of a thought; you have already got rid of the thought.  That's over.  So effortlessly, naturally you are there.  Now, choiceless.  Choiceless means you don't have any more desire.  Once you reach that state, there is no more desire.  Means no choice that you want to exercise.  That's what it is.  So, that's what He meant,  in that context only He told.  

Same Questioner:   Got it, thank You.  

Question:   Baba, there's a question on the chat.  Suppose a person takes an oath of poverty or brahmacharya in one lifetime, but that oath does not serve well in another lifetime, how to break such habits?  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see, when you resolve that you're going to be like this, you are unable to do that one, then your mind might get affected with a guilty consciousness or something that would be troubling.  With that throughout you live like that and then finally when the body is dropped, then your consciousness will attain the next incarnation based on such thoughts.  So, then it will strive again.  If you are becoming more positive by regretting, by feeling sad that you couldn't live like that one, you want to be in such a way, then that can be your inclination.  Much more strongly you would like to live like that one, in that type, brahmacharya or whatever it is.  Then you will be able to achieve better results of sadhana and the Self-realization will continue.  Whatever sadhana you have put, it will continue.

Question:   Unless it is inappropriate to this session, can SRBY comment on animal's consciousness.  

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, animals also have consciousness, but the question is, brains, their brains, how much is it developed?  Is it equivalent to humans or not, less?  Like, once they are hungry, they hunt and find their food.  Generation after generation they learn this - to sustain themselves, survive in this world.  But probably due to lack of such a developed brain, it is unable to think or discriminate good or bad, right or wrong, or what is truth, real or unreal.  This is what happens.  However, by a previous life’s destiny… Imagine a dog in a beautiful home with affectionate caretakers.  So, its consciousness absorbs that positive energy and it cools down.  Means it achieves more peace, it enjoys that.  Unknown to itself, then its next birth can get elevated.  That means in other words it becomes non-violent, its consciousness.  That's what happens.  So, then it gets elevated, elevated like that.  One time it is able to come to a body like a human life where well-developed brain is there which can help the mind to think, discriminate, real, unreal, good and bad, all will be possible.  

So, slowly the destiny works.  Like Swamiji used to tell, after undergoing in all species, the consciousness gets a chance to become a human being.  This must not be wasted.  Once in a life cycle opportunity for you to find the reality, the truth of your existence, and achieve that supreme peace, which is elusive for any creature.  Anywhere in the world you observe. Whether it is a bird, whether it is a carnivore, herbivore, anything, everybody has an enemy, has a fear, has an insecure feeling.  So, all these things are there.  When finally, when you come to the human body which has the well-developed brain to discriminate, good, real, unreal, all this things, then slowly as your inclination goes towards finding the truth.  Instead of telling the spirituality word, I am just talking ‘finding the truth’, so that we remain neutral, no religion, no spirituality.  The temperament when it comes, that we start calling spirituality, we give it a name to the subject.  When you want to know yourself as that spirit, that is spirituality, study of that is the spirituality.  So, this is how with this opportunity, finally one can become liberated.  Many times, like either in Australia or America, people have requested me to bless their pets.  They have brought it.  Though I am allergic to pets, my body is, but from a distance I have always blessed them.  And with a mild warning, don't become too much attached to this animal, because in the next life you might be inside the bone, and this animal might be carrying you for my blessings, be careful.  Like that I have alerted them.  But otherwise, you take care of animal is no problem, it is a good habit, and thus… you see? That animal is so blessed, though on its own, it cannot think and such – “I want to see a yogi, I want to meet a yogi, I want to discuss;” it cannot think all such things.  Yet, its destiny has brought it to the presence of a yogi to receive the blessings.  Isn't it amazing, the Divine’s grace?  So, like this animals also get benefited eventually.  Soul, it is the same consciousness is there.  Eventually, everybody will return to the Divinity.  

Question:   Baba, I have a question about individual consciousness and mind, and the pure consciousness or universal consciousness.  Earlier today You said that you elevate your consciousness to be the pure consciousness, at least that's what I thought I heard.  So, my question is, when we're meditating and there is a stillness in silence, are we getting a glimpse of pure consciousness?  I can't stay there, but I do touch it, and I experience it.  Is that pure consciousness?  

Babaji Maharaj:   Whenever you experience the quietness, even for a fraction of a moment, that is the glimpse of Divinity, that is the glimpse of the atman.  I have told previously if you remember, thought after thought gets produced, but in between two thoughts there is a small gap.  That gap is the Divinity.  Our attention has to go to that gap instead of the thoughts.  That is the idea of meditation.  

Same Questioner:   So, my next question is, before You became Self-realized before tapas, You have attained levels of awakening.  So, my question is, can we, before tapas actually know for certain that one single Self exists?  Can we know the one single Self in pure consciousness? 

Babaji Maharaj:   In the quietness, we can experience.   Like, in the tennis, you become a Wimbledon champion is different.  Before becoming a Wimbledon champion, every day you are practicing the tennis.  Some sort of knowledge definitely comes to you.  Some awareness about the tennis match, where to hit, how to hit, why, which angle, which way you hold the racquet, all these things, this knowledge also comes.  Means this awareness starts coming.  In that way, before tapas also, that awareness was coming, that awareness.  When we read the Yoga Vashista, way back in 1976 or 1977, that was when I got the book, and then used to sit under the mango tree behind bushes, then meditate.  Then suddenly we realized, it is talking that ultimate Divinity exists in itself.  That means this space that is in front of me, in the midst of all these trees and all things, this is the only thing which exists in itself.  That means this space must be the Divinity.  All the time we are seeing this Divine, we are in the midst of Divine, in the Divine, one with the Divine.  So, this awareness came and we could hold onto that one at all times.  That's why we maintained most of the time silent.  Whatever happened in life, good, or anybody humiliated, anybody criticized, anybody cheated, did anything, we didn't react, kept quiet, so that we could keep into that awareness. That practice continued.  

Same Questioner:   Thank You.  

Question:   Baba it seems that the notion of liberation only has value or utility within an appearance world.  And since an appearance world has no existence value, then the notion of liberation also has ultimately no existence value also because it disappears when the world appearance disappears.  Is this true?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, when you achieve that, it disappears.  Until then you would need that, like you need a ladder, until you go onto the terrace.  Once you go onto the terrace, the ladder may not have any meaning, but with a consideration you would keep that ladder, “Let others also use this ladder and come onto the terrace”.  That's why we keep talking about liberation in the midst of universe, though we don't need it anymore, but we want others also to climb onto the ladder, come onto the terrace.  So that's how it is there, it is not there.  

Same Questioner:   So, it's not liberation, it's not really an action that actually happens.  It's just a notion that we choose to motivate us to keep going forward, to quiet the mind and become silent.  Is that true? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  Here, in some way, due to your actions, you have bound yourself.  So, you give up such actions which can liberate you.  

Question:   You have touched on that real peace is within us, that Jesus said “The kingdom of heaven lies within”,  Nisargadatta said something to the fact that the Self is so wonderful, you can sit in a barren field and it will be filled with beautiful gardens.  And so, these are all ways to try to emphasize importance of the impermanence, nothing in this world ever brings us lasting peace and the importance of trying to find the peace of the Self or know the Self.  But anyway, could You comment a little bit on that again?  It is inspiring.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, first thing you all have to remember, you get the real peace when you don't need anything.  Any… even you need oxygen, you may lose peace because of that.  When you don't need anything, that happens only when you totally realize what you are, how you are existing.  That existence doesn't need anything for its existence.  It is secure already.  Unnecessarily, it had binded with creative imaginations, imaginations and it forgot.  It forgot, it forgot, and it got involved into that creation as if it was the reality.  Now it's time to forget about this, what we were thinking about reality.  Time to forget that this world is a real item and try to get rid of it mentally, not physically.  Because the physical itself is a part of this universe only.  You don't have to get rid of it.  You just be in the world with physical body, but try to detach the mind.  Just be ready that it's unreal.  Behave as if it's real, but in the mind keep it as unreal.  Don't forget.  That's good enough.  Inner peace, the outer peace, everything will be same, wonderful always.

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.

  Wonderful, such a beautiful evening that I could spend with you all.  All your intelligent questions have helped me to get some enthusiastic answers to you all.  Wonderful.     

End of Session