In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
Ego - the biggest hurdle for progress | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.208
Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang
Ego - the biggest hurdle for progress | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.208
Recorded on 4 January 2025 with worldwide participants.
0:00 Intro
0:17 What is the ego and why is it the biggest hurdle?
2:14 Is it because we start defining everything we see as a reality and become stubborn in our thinking - is that ego?
9:01 To remove the ego and achieve the truth of existence, do we need to let go of all definitions in the mind?
15:08 Babaji's quote "actions prove who someone is, words just prove who they pretend to be"
22:55 If a student authorises the Guru to remove the ego, how does the Guru help to remove it?
25:07 How does the technique of meditation help to dissolve this ego?
29:54 If the ego is removed, does that mean everything disappears?
32:53 When Babaji says that He takes a risk when teaching the student - does that mean the teaching is an automatic thing that happens?
35:43 Throughout the day, what is the best way to be aware of the movements of the ego and transcend those ego movements?
37:19 Properties and relationships have given me comfort but not happiness. Yet I am attached knowing well that everything will go one day - is it all ego-doing?
38:45 How is ego different from confidence?
40:09 In relationships, how do we interact with ego-minded people, when in disagreements or arguments and not losing our own spiritual path?
43:15 Why does this Maya exist? How do childhood issues affect your spiritual journey?
47:55 How to overcome resistance, frustration, misery, distraction with our daily practice of meditation?
49:43 During meditation, eyes open halfway which distracts. How to avoid this?
50:53 How can I feel more love in taking care of elderly parents during the last periods of their life.
54:22 In what sense are we saying that the world is unreal?
57:19 How to detach from the constant narrative in the mind when meditating or chanting?
58:55 Is ok to use the breath to focus?
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Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
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Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.208
Ego, The Biggest Hurdle for Progress
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/3mmYgcJZMl4
Recorded: 04 January 2025
Start of Questions and Answers
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Question: So, Babaji, the topic today is about ego; the biggest hurdle, as Babaji mentions. So, the first question Babaji. Could Babaji explain what this ego is and also why it is the biggest hurdle?
Babaji Maharaj: It would be very difficult to give a particular definition for ego, a very wide subject. But generally, for understanding, we can try to understand like this. We presume ourselves as this body and consider that personality as me, and everything connected to that, whatever we imagine, that can become ego. Like, in this body, I am this body and I have a brain and I can apply intelligence, and I start considering, “I know everything, I don't have to learn anything else,” so, that is the ego form. So, that's why Swamiji always told, “Never stop the learning process.” This was one of His beautiful teachings. “From anywhere, in any way, a learning is possible. Don't show any ego; don't show any reservations that you don't have to learn. That might be useful; you learn.” So, that is how the ego forms. Ego, in other words also, we presume ourselves as something else other than what we actually, really are. Then, about that personality which we are not, we go on imagining everything about ourselves. So, that becomes ego, and narrow-mindedness like we talk.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. So, as Babaji mentioned, we imagine ourselves to be this body. So, is it because we start defining everything that we see as a reality, and then we become stubborn in our way of thinking. Is that what the ego is, Babaji?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah. This ego, in other words we can define like this also. Like, first we assume ourselves as the body, means “That is me. I am.” Then starts ‘mine.’ “My intelligence, my knowledge, my wisdom;” and in this world, whatever objects are there, they are all as mine. “I want to own this. I want to have this. I am the king of this kingdom. I want to own the world.” That type of ego goes on and on, never ending. So, if we have a little bit of knowledge also, like the frog of the pond – it thinks that this pond is all that exists because it has never seen about ocean or anything else. So, such people are there. They become narrow-minded. They fail to see things beyond their physical body or their understanding, their capacities, all such things. The Ultimate Truth as the omnipotent, omnipresent, they fail to see these things, let alone understand or even they cannot even smell also these things, these truths. So thus, they become egoistic.
Like in the story, the pond's frog was informed that a strange frog has come. A frog from ocean, by chance it was flowing in the rainwater and fell into that pond. This frog in the pond was the king, it considered itself as the king in the pond. So, it asked its subordinates to go and bring that other frog. So, it was brought to the king's presence. The king asked, “Where are you from? Who are you?” “I live in the ocean. I have come from the ocean.” The king doesn't know what ocean is. So, arrogantly he says, “Huh? What ocean is that nonsense? Can your ocean be this big?” He tries to jump within the pond, whatever he could jump. “Is your ocean this big?” He smiles, the frog of the ocean. “No, your majesty, it's very difficult to explain to you. This is just nothing what you are jumping. Ocean is vast and very big.”
So, like this, it goes on and on. Then finally, the frog of the pond refuses to accept. And it declares, “There is no ocean existing now at all.” So, often you see, if we go to other knowledgeable people, they acquire a little bit of knowledge and refuse to understand there can be much bigger than this. We see a small space in front of us. And we start considering “This is all the space and I own this one, there cannot be anything else further.” So, these type of egos happen.
So, when this ego happens, who is the loser? The frog of the pond was the loser. It refused to understand about the ocean, let alone try to go and see the ocean. Like that, if you just observe the creatures of this world, particularly human beings and everyone, their life moves around in a small sphere of surroundings. If a human has adopted certain relationships, a family and this, a few friends, more than that they don't know what the world is. Their life revolves around that small sphere. That becomes their ego. And they can be boasting, “I know this person, I know that person, I know all these things.” But they don't know anything about the Ultimate Truth, the Divinity, why it was known as Divine, why that Ultimate Truth as boundless they said.
That is the greatness of the sages, to not allow the consciousness to become egoistic. They used the word, “It is anantha.” It is boundless. Don't try to define what it is. Like, a knowledgeable person will tell you, “Don't try to measure the space. It's boundless. It simply goes on and on and on; everywhere it is - omnipresent.” So, that is the knowledgeable thing. Like that, they also advised, “Don't try to understand what the Divinity is. It is beyond. It is boundless.” So, like this, the ego goes. So, when we become narrow-minded in our knowledge, understanding, defining and claiming and becoming egoistic – that's what we tell, “This person is very egoistic. He doesn't know anything. Yet he thinks he is the king.” Whereas he is just nothing. He doesn't own a kingdom at all. Still, he tells he is the king.
So, many people in this world, in the society would behave like that if you have seen. The more you come across the truth and you know, then you become humble. Humility will be there. That is one of the greatest realizations. So, in this body, we cannot know the truth as it is. You have to become That. When you become That, there is nothing that you have to claim. The seer and seen, everything disappears. With that, all ego also disappears. There is nothing. Where do I claim? That alone is there, and it has nothing to claim that “I have become Self-realized. I know this truth.” There is no such thing at all. All things disappear. All ideas disappear and get dropped. You just exist in itself.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. So, Babaji, to remove this ego and achieve that truth of existence, does that mean we have to let go of all the definitions that we have made in our minds or anything that we are hanging on to?
Babaji Maharaj: You can have definitions. But we need to know that is not the final truth. It is only limited. It is like you can measure the space any number of times, but if you have the knowledge, “What I have measured is only a little bit, impossible to measure the space as it is.” And you need to know, “If we need to know the space, we have to become the space itself.” Once you become the space, there is nothing to know. So, like that, that type of knowledge also will be helpful to overcome the ego and you become humble. Once you understand the all-pervadedness of the space, you are humbled. So, that is how when you go closer to the truth also, understand the truth also, you do not claim that “I know everything of the truth.” Simply, “I have become quiet”, that’s what it is. Like, Buddha told that dacoit Angulimala – he used to cut people's fingers and make it a garland and he used to wear. Once Buddha was walking in the forest. So, this Angulimala shouts at him, “Hey, stop there!” So, composed, at peace, Buddha looks back telling, “I stopped long ago. When are you going to stop?” At His composed face and that beauty of His Self-realized [state], that dacoit surrendered to Buddha, telling “Why are You telling like this, that You stopped and I also have to stop? From which thing that I have to stop?” And when he heard Buddha’s teaching, he totally became a disciple of Lord Buddha.
So, that is how the things are. Once you realize there is something much beyond us and our understanding, you become humble. Then you give up all ego. There is nothing, no ego; that's all. So, like when we do the tapas, we realize, to our Guru we are always a disciple. In future, another person might accept me as a Guru, but we cannot become Guru to our Guru. So, that ego must not happen. So many things, several stories all we have heard about the ego things also.
Many times I have narrated, if some of you might remember, the story of two wrestlers. One was the master and another person comes. He thinks, “Let me learn everything from this master and I must defeat this master.” He goes and for several months he learns all the tricks of the wrestling championship. Then he goes to the king. He tells, “Now I can challenge the master myself. I am sure that I can defeat him.” The king says, “Really? Do you think that you can defeat the master? He is the great master.” He says, “No problem, I will defeat him. I have learned everything from him.” He was under the impression. So, he had become egoistic. So, he declared that “I can defeat him.”
So, on the particular day which was declared, all people that gathered; everybody was informed and this wrestling started. Within moments, the master caught hold of the disciple and defeated him. Then the disciple complains, “Master you never taught me this trick, this wrestling trick.” The master says, “Idiot, I knew you would challenge me. You would become egoistic and you would challenge your master. For that sake only I have kept this trick.”
Swamiji used to tell this story also. So many times we tell, “Don't try to argue with your Master.” This is the subject. So, if you try to be more clever unnecessarily, you will get beaten up. So, being humble is very important that you lose ego. Then you gain the right type of knowledge. A knowledge needs to have wisdom also. If the wisdom is there, you will not become egoistic. Only those people who read a book and become knowledgeable, they think that they know everything and they become so egoistic, rational, all these things keep happening. They don't know the boundlessness of the Ultimate Truth. So, now and then they try to define, “This is the truth, this is the truth.” Then they come out after six months “No, what hitherto humanity had thought of this truth, it is not like that; this is like this”, they come.
New, new things get discovered, discovered, discovered. So, there is no end for this. That’s what is illusion, maaya. So that's how the ego goes. And that's how we need to overcome the ego. We can never claim that we have come to know of the truth. The truth is not separate from us. As long as we keep it separated, we can never know. In the human body, as a human, you can never measure the space. You become the space itself. And then also the ego stops, ego vanishes. A droplet, when it merges in the ocean, the droplet did not become the ocean; the ocean already existed. The droplet simply merged with the ocean, thus, you lose the ego at all.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Babaji recently posted a quote, which said, “Actions prove who someone is, words just prove who they pretend to be.” Could Babaji talk a bit about this quote?
Babaji Maharaj: Just like that it came to me when I was composing the quotes. We have seen many people boasting and talking, talking, talking, “Ah, I know this, I can do this one.” “I know these people” and “he was doing this, recognizing me like that.” But in action they don't do anything actually. They are simply talkative, chatterbox. In the local language, they are just the barking dogs; they cannot bite. They are not practical. Those who know the truth and who are practical, they don't have to boast. When the time comes, they simply show their knowledge and their prowess and everything. Once you become the owner of the factory, you don't have to boast anything. When you are the gate watchman, then you keep boasting; “I know the owner of this factory also.” Every day you salute him and you know he is master; that doesn't mean that you know everything of the owner of the factory.
Like that, simply if we go to temple place of worship and do pranaams, that doesn't mean that we know of God everything. A little bit slap happens in our life and we start accusing God, we start accusing Guru, “In spite of our faith, O Guru, why this thing happened to my son? Why did we had to suffer?” Because their imagination is “When we believe in the Guru, that means the Guru must look after that no calamity, no trouble should come to us. No ill health should come, ever. If it comes, he is not the Guru then. Then I will question.” What do they know about Guru, what Guru means, what the Guru wants to teach? That's how I have always told, “If you ask, you will ask only for a small chocolate; that is all your imagination is. You allow the Guru to give; the Guru can give you supermarket.” That is what Swamiji used to tell.
So, that is the sacrificing the ego. When you want to become a student. That's why Swamiji also said, “When you come to me, come as a devotee. Because if you come that you are a royal person, you are a business person, you are an army officer, you are this, that, everything political stalwarts, everything, then you will be egotistic with that and you will never learn from me. You will never ask the question, even if I am answering also, you won't pay attention.” We see many people come in front of us. They come, they want to show their knowledge and just want me to endorse that they are the ‘known’ people, they know everything. They don't want to listen to my explanation, what that truth is, how to go for that. They don't want to learn. They go on talking. They ask a question. And before I can answer, they either keep talking or their attention is somewhere and then again they come back with the same question because they wouldn't have heard me talking.
That's why I insist. When you are given a chance to ask a question, once you ask the question, be clear about that question, then become silent, concentrate, have patience, focus on what I have to answer. Then only you can learn. If you want to ask a question, you should have the humility that you want to learn something. It should not be that you want to test your Guru. Some people show such type of ego, whether the Guru knows this truth or what they know and they would have read some book and somewhere something or heard some other Guru talking. So, they try to ask this question also; “Let us test our Guru, whether our Guru knows this or not. So, then they are not humble. They won't like to learn anything. They simply ask a question and they want to know whether I know that truth or not. They don't have any interest. So, such people will never learn. They will always be egoistic.
That's why you need to be humble when you ask a question. Then when I answer, you must understand this question and answer session is for educational purpose of all the students and participants of the meditation who want to learn if they want to learn more. Then they can be sitting and they can listen to my answers and learn from that one. If they are not, then that means they are not fit to learn anything. That's very important. Many times we keep telling, we keep telling, hundreds of times we would have told. So, we are conducting Zoom for the last five, six years now. Many answers would be repeating, questions would have come repeatedly, again and again we talk, but often people don't pay attention when I am answering. I tell that “This is not just for Simon Grisdale only. He is asking questions on your behalf and the answer is for all of you, all of your participants in the Zoom.” So, it should be interesting for you if you want to learn more about the truth of what we experienced, what my Guru taught me.
If a question comes then I can answer easily. So, when I am answering, all of you must pay attention. It's 150 people or more than that. If everybody's mind is here what Babaji has to say, then you will be able to learn. And then you will churn it out and you will learn that you have to silence your mind. That's all you have to practice. So, that is what is important. One time Swamiji used to tell and we haven't forgotten; that is ringing in our ears even now also. We haven't forgotten that one. Swamiji’s physical body has long gone, but Swamiji's voice is ringing in our ears. So, we used to pay apt attention.
I never wanted to talk anything in front of Swamiji. Just wanted to listen what He has to say, what He has to convey, what He wants to teach me. Practically, through the theory, through the mouth or through other actions. Even if He scolded or slapped, we always used to think “What is that He wanted to teach me, where was I doing some mistakes?” So, like that only students can learn. So, imagine, these sessions are such a golden opportunity, once in a life-cycle opportunity that some questions are being asked, and the Master is trying to answer. So, these answers can be so enlightening for everyone to practice also; to be practical in their life also they can learn. Otherwise, they will be condemned to the beds.
Question: If a student authorizes the Guru to remove one's ego, how does the Guru help to remove one's ego?
Babaji Maharaj: Guru knows how and when, in which way to remove the ego. He may not tell you; that can be a suspense. You don't keep expecting “This way the Guru will do so I will be ready to do that one” –
things don't happen. Any moment, anywhere, in any way the Guru can be teaching you. It is your duty to be attentive all the time, particularly when you come in front of the Guru; you should be attentive to what the Guru has to say, not what you have to explain to the Guru. So, then you will be able to learn. I am talking only for educational purpose. When I answer for any one person's question also, it is for everybody, all participants; that is important. You don't ask, you ask and the Guru will not tell because this is how… You ask “What are the questions you are going to ask me in the examination paper?” No, no, no, no, no, no – questions will not be revealed. You come to the examination hall, you take the question paper and you will get to see the questions, then you answer, then we will know how much you have learned all these days.
Every day the Guru teaches, every moment the Guru teaches. He keeps talking, He keeps talking something; sometimes He might appear as very naughty, sometimes He might appear as scolding, teasing this, doing that, finding faults deliberately, finding faults – and that can be sometimes very painful also; one can get annoyed, irritated, all these things can be happening. So, the Guru will never tell you how He is going to test you, how He is going to remove the ego. You just learn to give up the ego.
Question: Could Babaji talk about the technique of meditation, how does that help to dissolve this ego?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, in this technique which I have always told is one of the highest techniques practiced in ancient India, which Lord Shiva gave to our Guru Shivabalayogi by the appearance who came as a Jangama sage. In this you are silently to watch in between eyebrows, fixing your eyeballs and mind. They both go together. If the eyeballs can be fixed, it can withhold the mind also there focused. When it is focused, slowly all the thoughts, all the visions disappear. If you do not analyze what they are, that means you won't be holding on to the thoughts; this is the secret. When you close the eyes, thousands and millions of thoughts might come, visions might come. Watching them do not try to analyze, just be a witness. If you analyze you will get involved, then you will be creating further thoughts, further thoughts. So, this is what happens.
So, this is the concept of the Vijayadashami, after the eight, nine days of Durga Ashtami and Durga Saptami, it’s all the Vijayadashami, the final victorious day. The more that She used to cut the head of the demon, the more blood that fell down, used to create so many demons again. So, that is what it is. When you analyze one thought, you might be creating hundreds of more thoughts unnecessarily. So, for that you have to exercise willpower; just watch – “This is not for me to analyze. It is a garbage being thrown out; let it go, simply.” That you are forced to watch as a thought or a vision. So, this is very important. Then this technique helps you to lose ego; once all the thoughts visions all disappear with that all ego also disappears. Slowly even imagination about yourself as the body also disappears; what you are, you will never have such ideas.
These imaginations doesn't come to us that I am least and I am a Realized person, nothing. When I don't exist at all, the question of Self-Realized person doesn't arise. Others may call me as a Realized Master, this, that, everything. But that imagination never troubles me, that anybody can hurt or anybody can question. If anybody tells “You are not Realized,” “OK, no problem; if I am not Realized, I will get Realization. Somebody might tell “O, You are a very Realized Master. We surrender to you.” Okay, okay, no problem. I will bless you, I will pray for you.” Both are equally same. The truth is truth.
So, that's what is the importance of losing ego through this meditation; every thought is to be considered as an ego in spirituality. I understand. Do not misunderstand; for living in this world, your analyzations, your judgments, your use of the mind all may be necessary, but if you practice meditation, slowly you will be still able to use your mind by imagining but these imaginations will not trouble you anymore. You simply use it that much that is necessary then those thoughts will disappear. You won't be absorbing it as acquired habits.
That is the benefit you would achieve when you practice meditation. You can live a normal life, you can make a judgment, you can understand if somebody is trying to fool you, somebody is misbehaving, everything you can understand, but you will not become a victim of further allowing the mind to get involved too much. You will just behave that much that is necessary and then the job is over, finished, like that. So, once you are a driver and you have to drive, once the driving is done then you are no more a driver. You come out, that's it, finished, like that. So, that's how you can achieve this by practicing meditation. You can totally annihilate the ego. When that final ‘I’ also disappears then the merger of the mind called consciousness happens with the Ultimate Truth called the Divinity, Parabrahman, Truth.
Question: So, if the ego is totally destroyed and removed then does that mean everything disappears really, for a Self-Realized yogi?
Babaji Maharaj: Yes. It all disappears but however when we have to live in this world, when I have to teach, I have to create awareness, those who love me and who consider me as a Master, to them I have to help to remove their ego. Different ways that we have to adopt; we have to take a risk of annoying that student. Student might get annoyed when we behave like that one. You never know what way the Master behaves, in which way He would like to teach you. So, these type of things we have to adopt.
And also we have to deal with an institution. We have to look after the Guru's institution where people can come, meditate and learn the truth, all this thing. For all these I have called as we have to maintain a sattvic ego. An ego in the name of my Guru. You see, in my Guru's institution I am only a servant. That attitude we have to adopt but that will not be absorbed as an imprint. Finally, we know very well that the ‘I’ doesn't exist, only that Ultimate Truth exists, the rest is all illusion. We just have to behave according to the illusion, then forget about it, we don't carry.
Say, sitting here if I have to handle these questions, I answer. So, by the time we have finished this session, do the aarathi and get up and go to my room, I would have forgotten what I answered, what the questions that came. For people who have to listen that which has been recorded repeatedly for them to understand, I won't be thinking that, “O, I have answered like this. This question came like this.” No such imagination comes to me. I would have totally erased everything; it's gone. Because that is how in Yoga Vashistha at the end Vashistha tells “All these days, Hey Rama, whatever I spoke is also false.” It can be so confusing for people. I have told, we have to use the nearest imagination to give a clue to the student to understand the truth, to go for the truth. Means that shall not be binding upon me. I will not be binding myself to a particular definition. It is beyond, boundless. Parabrahma, that is the word they used, tattva, tattvamasi.
Question: Baba, when Babaji said Babaji takes a risk when teaching students, does that mean that teaching is an automatic thing that happens?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, so many times I'm guided by my Guru. Sometimes it has happened also. But I try to do this so that they may be benefited. They may lose the ego. They overcome. So, when they do that one, they can gain the highest things, it’s possible. So, that means like for example, a mother would like to scold, pull up the children. It is a risk; the children might misunderstand the mother and get irritated, annoyed and they protest. They do this, that, everything. But the mother takes that risk because she knows what is beneficial to her children. “This is beneficial. I am not going to compromise. You misunderstand me, no problem. You get annoyed with me, no problem. At least I will have the satisfaction I tried to teach you all.” So, when this body goes one day soon, I will have the satisfaction whoever came in front of me, I tried to teach them the truth, I tried to teach them all the values of life. About ego, about the languages, about the culture; all these things we try to teach to make them a better human being so that they can go towards the Ultimate Truth, learn what the real bhakti is, learn what spirituality means.
Not simply coming in front of me for one hour, you sit and then say “O, I participated in the Zoom session. I meditated for one hour. And then I listened to the questions.” “So, what were the questions? What were the answers?” “Something happened. I am forgetting.” You'd have forgotten by the time the session is over. Need to pay attention. So, that has to be there. That's why I don't mind repeating the answers. I don't mind if the questions are repeated again by many people. No problem. You want to learn, I am happy to teach you. You just learn and adopt these methods in your life. When you achieve, I have told that is the greatest donation that you can give me, when you achieve the truth to yourself. If I am trying to remove your ego, know that I love you all so much. That's what Swamiji also told. That's what He taught me.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Throughout the day, what is the best way to be aware of the movements of the ego? And how to transcend those ego movements?
Babaji Maharaj: Always take help of an anchor, a higher consciousness. That's why the Divine concept has been given. And the Divine is the all-pervaded, all-knower of the truth. In front of the Divine, we are just micro-specks and just nothing. Consider yourself a servant of the Lord and keep behaving accordingly. You go on doing whatever you want to do. Try to remember as much as possible. Then your ego will be washed away. So, that's what it is. Like Ramakrishna used to say, “Look at the feet of a woman. All evil thoughts will be washed away.” The impression that you are going to give to your own mind, it can be either way; it can be extremely corrupted, or it can be extremely fruitful. Simply the mind's attitude, that is all. The world is okay in its place. Your attitude is what matters. So, you keep a God for yourself, a Guru for yourself. Remember that Guru is watching, that God is watching you all the time. Then you won't allow any ego to crop up within you.
Question: Babaji, it was my belief that acquiring property, status, relationships was my sole goal, but it did not bring happiness. Comfort, yes. Yet I am attached knowing well that everything will go one day. Is it all ego doing?
Babaji Maharaj: Having any property is no problem. While in this world, you need a place to live, you need some food to eat, sustain your physical body. That is why all this time if you try to remember the Divinity, the Guru all the time, whichever property is yours, wherever you live, consider that place as the temple of your Master, of your God. So, you are living in the temple of your God. You own that property, no problem. God doesn't want your property. Guru also doesn't need your property. But wherever you are living, consider that as the temple, then you will not misbehave with that property. You will look after that carefully, and you will always be humble; “This is the temple of my Lord,” and you will always remember the Lord. So, then you will always be humble.
Question: How is ego different from confidence? What traits does ego have that confidence doesn't have?
Babaji Maharaj: Confidence always keeps a person humble and composed. When there is ego, that person becomes rude and arrogant, all these things come along with that. So, these are the accompaniments. If it is confidence, its accompaniments are all humble, friendly, compassionate, peaceful, behaving well with others. You will not become cunning, but you will be careful. See, becoming cunning and being careful are totally two different things. Cunning is the other end of the extremism, corrupted way of extremism. But to be careful, it is necessary for everybody. You don't have to be a fool in this world. So, while behaving so, you don't have to be rude to others, you don't have to be punishing others unnecessarily. Just defend yourself and stay to yourself. So, like these are the symptoms of confidence and cunningness.
Question: In relationships, how do we interact or be with ego-minded people, mainly when there is a disagreement or argument and not losing our own spiritual path?
Babaji Maharaj: You have to be very careful in this world, that too when you come across egoistic people. See, is it worthwhile to argue with them or for your own peace? Just arguing may not bring out any fruit. So, leave it there. Let them have their opinions. You have your opinion. You live for what you believe, your Divinity, your Guru, and your spiritual path is more important. For that wherever necessary, you just give up that, sacrifice. Unless they try to harm you physically or mentally. These two things you have to defend yourself. If you have anything of yours in this world, if somebody tries to rob that one, you have a right to defend. While doing so also, you can still be sattvic. Simply you want to defend. More than that you don't want to keep remembering that wicked person all the time. If you go to office, you might come across an egoistic person. So, let him be; you just mind your work and be diplomatic a little bit. Just like the tongue has to move under the teeth, thirty-two teeth ready to bite it all that time, these thirty-two wicked teeth. You cannot run away also. You have to live in this world. But you have to learn to be skillful. Sometimes you might appear to be listening to that. But you don't have to become egoistic for that purpose. Just tackle diplomatically, then do your work and try to live.
If you meditate, you will be able to learn these things better. You will not get involved. You will not acquire any such habits. You can be on the spiritual side all the time. We all came up in the society. We had to be. We went to school, we went to college. We saw the people. Whether in the Ashram, mandir, office anywhere, you will come across egoistic people, all these things happen. But you have to protect yourself, defend yourself. While defending means, you defend your character, your culture; you must not sacrifice. These things very important. But at the same time, don't allow anybody to exploit you, don't become a victim of any such thing. Skillfully just move here and there and come out.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. I kind of see the answer for the question, but still I would like to know Your opinion on it. Two things. One, the most infamous question that existed all the time. Why? Why all these things, why the maaya? I don't know if You have any interesting insight to it?
And second, I have another thing. What is the connection between a spiritual journey and people who go through certain childhood issues? If you're not loved in your childhood, then you behave in the world in a particular way that is not good for yourself and the others. And how does that affect the spiritual journey? When people get enlightened, they just completely forget all these childhood issues and then just go to a completely different prayer or something? Or do they come to peace with themselves first and then they go ahead on the spiritual journey?
Babaji Maharaj: For the first question, this question comes up many times. And to be precise, perhaps there is no conclusive answer for this. Even our tapas also we have observed and the ancient teachers who have spoken. The presence of energy in the Parabrahman; just like that it has happened. Because there is no use of this creation for the Ultimate Truth, Divinity. He doesn't need any of this creation, world for its peace, existence, secure existence, all these things. Somewhere the consciousness lost its control over itself. Means, another example: say if you have had a good night's sleep and you feel fresh in the morning when you get up, for a while mind would be very peaceful. Then suddenly, unknown to you the mind starts imagining something. In the beginning it imagines good things, pleasant things because nobody wants unpleasantness. But as the days pass by, the mind slips into good and bad, right and wrong all sorts of imaginations, and gets involved. Like this, long time if you don't attend to your mind and control it, you would have lost control of the things and these things would have happened.
So, that is how the reason is. It started and it just happened. And as soon as possible if you can get rid of this maaya, it will be beneficial. Because it can be very mind-boggling if you try to know the root cause why and when and how this happened. You can never find the proper answer. Somewhere you have to accept, “This thing has happened, we have to get rid of it” –is the best way for us to achieve peace and Self-Realization, all these are the things.
A living in the world also. If you are on the spiritual path you have to do sadhana; regularly if you meditate you will gain better control over your mind. And when the mind is more concentrated, in situations you will be able to apply your brains in a better way. You yourself will not become a victim even if you have to defend yourself in the midst of somebody trying to harm you and these type of things you come across in the society. So, you will be moving in the society; you will be very diplomatically moving, but you will behave like a witness and then defend yourself, but you won't become habitual for that thing. Say for example somebody is trying to harm you, you have a right to defend yourself. But all the twenty-four hours if you keep thinking of the person who tried to harm you then your mind also becomes corrupted and becomes a casualty. So that is why this arishadvarga of kaama, krodha, loba, moha, madha, matsaryam - jealousy, false pride, extreme attachment to impermanent world, and extreme anger, extreme greediness. These are considered six enemies of human mind because these are the shapes the mind takes. Whoever has got these things in them they are the first casualty before they can harm somebody else. That you have to be careful. Only strong regular meditation can help you to live in this world without getting too much attached, but yet you can be defending yourself.
Question: Namaskar Babaji. My question tonight is, can you please help me with some obstacles I've been experiencing around meditation. Like for the past two to three weeks I've been feeling resistance, misery, frustration, destruction, feel overwhelmed, etc. And I'm having difficulty in getting back into my daily practice. How can I accept all these difficult experiences and persist with my daily meditations again? Thank You.
Babaji Maharaj: You see, it is important, we need to understand for a long time we could not take care of our mind and the mind has got exposed too much to this world. See, in olden days like in our childhood we got very less exposed to the world. The technological advancement was not that much. We didn't have gadgets, social media, this, that everything. So, our living was in a limited way and we just listened to our parents and became spiritual and that helped us to keep our minds very peaceful and meditation came very handy. Whereas the present day you all get exposed so much. So, that is the troublesome thing, but you need to have enormous patience. Don't give up; one day you can achieve. Simply understand the technique. When you close the eyes, whatever comes, any thought, vision, just watch and don't try to analyze further. The day, the moment your mind understands “It is me who has to keep quiet and watch,” then you will win. One day it will happen. Have confidence in you. We will pray for you.
Question: So, me and my mother practice meditation regularly. There is one question from my mother which I would like to put across to You. So, during the meditation, sometimes her eyes open up – half, so that kind of distracts her. She was wondering if You can give any advice that she can correct.
Babaji Maharaj: She needs to close down whenever it opens. Whenever she notices that it is disturbing, distracting, she just needs to close gently with all the patience, and quietly close it. If necessary, still if it is not coming under control, for two minutes just get up, pour some water on the face, wash your face, come back and sit again and continue, then slowly it will be alright. By practice it has to come down, so, it will be all right afterwards.
Question: Namaste Swamiji. I have a question about bhakti, service and the joy and the ego. And so I find myself in my life, in the decades of my life, for example the last number of years taking care of my elderly parents and my wife's elderly parents through the last parts of their life. So, it's a great service to be able to do this. I find myself doing this because it's just the thing to do, and oftentimes there's thoughts come up, feelings of resentment occasionally. Occasionally, there are feelings and thoughts of joy but it seems like a lot of the time there's nothing and I feel like an imposter almost, like I'm doing this out of a sense of duty or it's the right thing to do. I don't think about it. It's just what there is to do. But somehow I feel in all this process, why am I not feeling more love? How can I feel more love? What mistake am I making? What am I missing?
Babaji Maharaj: Ah, these are the things; when you love, love for sake of love. It should be totally unconditional. Unknown to you, somewhere in your consciousness it might be sitting that you looked after them. So, this thing has to completely vanish. So, eventually it will go away. Whenever such a thing comes, when you do not feel that happiness, think that you got an opportunity by the Divine. You were given an opportunity to serve, to look after. And who had come, like as your parents, suppose; they were souls who were born as your parents, and from them you were born. So, think that you owed them something. And then you became their son and you got the opportunity to look after them. Like that in humility, try to think these things, then slowly that will give you more happiness. How fortunate you are that you are blessed to have such parents, and then that you had this opportunity to look after. What you owed them in your previous lives, you don't know – like that if you think. Then you will start feeling so much of satisfaction, happiness. It will definitely come. So somewhere this ego has to go that you looked after them. Instead you think that God gave you an opportunity to know the bhakti marga, what it is. So, then you will feel more happy. There's nothing that you had to give, but you were given an opportunity.
Same Questioner: So, it feels a little bit transactional. Is that my misunderstanding? Like, somebody gave something to me. And so I'm going to repay them. Is this okay?
Babaji Maharaj: That's also okay. That's okay. Even if you want to rise above that level…
Same Questioner: Yes, I do.
Babaji Maharaj: …Whether they gave anything or not, you were given the opportunity. And that will elevate you towards Divinity. That will give you more happiness.
Question: Namaskaaram Babaji. So, my question is related to the words that You used, that “The world is unreal.” So, I just wanted to understand. When You say unreal, is it that the relationship that we have created; “Okay, this person is my friend, this person is my enemy” – that imaginary thing, is that unreal or in what sense are we saying that the world is unreal?
Babaji Maharaj: First thing, at least you begin with understanding that this world including your own physical body is all impermanent. This is practical, in front of you. Everybody will agree at least. Just now, because you are with this body as you, your consciousness is also part of this larger dream, the illusion. So, that's why you are unable to make out what this is. Just like when you are dreaming in the night when you have gone to sound sleep, as long as you are dreaming, you will never be able to make out that you are dreaming. That appears so solid and real. Only when you get up from the dream, you realize that you were dreaming. Where did that dream go? Where is the location? Where did that drama happen? Where is the stage? Nothing is there. It was an illusion. It simply disappeared.
Like this, what happens; to understand this world's illusion, your consciousness needs to reach a higher consciousness which created this universe. In this universe, your consciousness has become diluted and become a micro speck. That's why you are unable to handle this, to understand this as an illusion or unreal. This will not come to mind practically. This appears so solid and real. So, these are the two parts – one is the impermanent; another is it will be able to experience the unrealness through practice of meditation when you reach the higher consciousness. Then you will get up from this dream. This is a longer dream, actually. The length of the dream is very long compared to the dreams that you have in your night. Sometimes jokingly also I had told people, like when you are dreaming, you would not even remember where you are sleeping. Who knows? Now also you might be sleeping somewhere and you don't know where you are sleeping until you don't get up. So, finally, only the meditation will help you to reach that higher consciousness, and practically you will be able to experience. Until then, it is a bit difficult to understand. So, if you understand this is impermanent, that is good enough for now.
Question: Whenever I meditate or do chanting or anything, there is always this narrative. It's going to repeat the words You said, it's going to say; “Just be a witness.” But it keeps saying it over and over again. How do I detach from this narrative, this commentary that keeps going on and on?
Babaji Maharaj: The mind becomes chatterbox type narrative. For everybody this trouble happens. For that only the watching technique is repeatedly taught. Means, when you close the eyes, the meditation instructions we gave: “Just watch in between eyebrows, fixing your mind and sight.” Acha [good]. When you close the eyes, hundreds of thoughts and millions of thoughts keep coming. When the thoughts come, you further try to analyze and get involved with those thoughts. Then you create more thoughts. Like hen out of the egg, egg out of the hen. If you skillfully withdraw one of them, then the process stops. The same technique used here. That's what ‘watch’ means. Like when I ask you to watch, don't think whether it is a hand and who's hand, all this. Just watch, use it to watch. So, use every thought to just watch and don't try to analyze why that thought is there. Whether it is a good thought or a bad thought, don't try to bother anything. Slowly, then when your mind catches this technique of just watching, then thoughts will all disappear. As long as your mind thinks, it analyzes and it makes a judgment; the thoughts will be there. You will be holding those thoughts. You won't allow that to disappear.
Same Questioner: Sometimes I use breath as a distraction. Like when it starts chattering and then I focus on the breath and then I keep focusing on the breath, then it goes back. Is it okay to do that?
Babaji Maharaj: For a while, you can use the breath. The breath can bring down the restlessness of the mind. It will be helpful. Take a long inhale and exhale, slowly, and the mind concentrates, and it becomes restful. Then again, try to meditate without concentrating on the breath. It will be helpful. Occasionally, you can take the help. No problem.
End of Questions and Answers
Babaji Maharaj now concludes:
Okay, Simon, I think questions are over and we deeply appreciate, some wonderful questions came.
End of Session