In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
Mind's detachment, the real vairagya | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.227
Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang
Mind's detachment, the real vairagya | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.227
Recorded on 31 August 2024 with worldwide participants.
0:00 Intro
0:06 The real vairagya is of the mind.
3:43 How can we achieve genuine vairagya in the world?
7:40 How can we reach that variagya, is it destiny?
11:08 What are the signs that we are progressing with vairagya?
13:26 How important is it to achieve vairagya while in the world?
17:01 How does vairagya create attachment to the Guru?
20:55 Why does vairagya not affect attachment to the Guru?
24:08 Why Swamiji trained to remove the attachment towards the Guru's physical form.
29:21 What is the connection between faith and vairagya?
30:51 Is the final vairagya achieved at Self Realization?
31:41 When this final vairagya is achieved, how does a person function in the world?
33:33 What is the relationship between vairagya and the doership?
34:55 How does the mind of a Yogi behave in the world?
39:24 Yogi's teach through their daily lives.
44:07 Whom should I take as a Guru, Swamiji or Babaji?
45:15 What is the significance of watching in between eyebrows?
45:49 As you gain vairagya do you become more of a witness?
46:50 When we experience physical or mental illness, how is it possible to cultivate vairagya in those situations?
48:06 Vairagya through contemplation versus directly through tapas.
51:32 Watching in meditation is like staring at a wall, is there something I should see?
54:21 How to practice vairagya in dealing with pain?
55:28 With vairagya, how to explain to family members when they notice a change in your behaviour?
57:17 How to respond to family members who think salvation is to be found only through Jesus.
1:01:44 How to give up attachments and to see that it is the Divine that both gives and takes.
1:03:11 Can the desire to earn money be an obstacle on the spiritual path?
1:05:25 Should you sit in any particular direction in meditation?
1:06:21 Can we only lose ego by doing seva?
1:08:09 As Babaji cultivated vairagya did Babaji lose interest in art, books and movies etc?
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Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
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Mind's detachment, the real vairagya | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.227
Recorded on 31 August 2024 with worldwide participants.
Question:
So, to start with, Babaji; Babaji always says that the real vairagya is of the mind. So, we can have everything in the world and not decide on anything at all, or we can go to a cave and not have anything but keep the mind on all attachments and desires. Like King Janaka, he was an emperor and he didn't have any attachment at all. He had everything in the world, but he didn't have any attachments. So, can Babaji comment on that, please?
Shri Babaji:
That means, say for example if King Janaka was in the world as an emperor, but in the mind He did not have any attachment at all. It is the mind which plays the tricks, what you have, the attachment. You might be in the world and you may not have any attachment at all. But you might be in a forest, in a cave, but you might be having all attachments, craving that you need to have this, you need to go back to the world. So, many times, like some students come to ashram or monastery like ours, or anywhere else, for some time they come, they expect a lot of glamorous things or whatever attachments they have. If their personal agenda is not fulfilled, they get attracted to the world, and they want to go back. So, then they simply give up and want to go back. They try to become more clever by abusing us also. So, the fault is there, that they were unable to have detachment.
And there is a beautiful quote in the Ramayana, one of the ones the poet remembers. Ravana, when he wanted to take away Sita, he comes to demon Maricha. “Maricha, you go disguised as a golden deer so that Rama can go after you. Then if nobody is there, then when you get killed, you shout in the name of Rama and Sita so that Sita sends Sri Lakshmana also. Then I can easily take away Sita.” Then, Maricha says, “You are such an illusionist. Why don't you become like Rama? And if you appear like Rama, Sita will go easily with you thinking you to be her husband.” But to this Ravana tells, “I don't know what material this Rama is made up of. If I have to assume the form of Rama, I have to think like Rama. When I think like Rama, I lose interest in Sita at all. I don't feel like taking her away. So, I don't want to become Rama.”
Means here, the meaning is, you can imagine how exalted Shri Rama's consciousness; it was one with the Divinity. He had no attachment of anything in the world. Though He was a householder, He was in the kingdom, He was in the forest, He was everywhere. But yet, He had the total vairagya. Means at all times, the consciousness was settled in the Divinity. So, it has to happen in the mind. That is what the real vairagya is.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. And Babaji, how can we in this world achieve that real vairagya genuinely, to detach everything from the mind?
Shri Babaji:
One important thing, understand that the entire universe is impermanent, our own physical body, that's what repeatedly we tell. The day that you realize, it penetrates your mind, “This is all impermanent. It will go away.” That's how like Buddha got into such beautiful vairagya. When He saw an old person, a person of illness, He saw a dead body, that was the first time He got to see as a prince. Otherwise, throughout His life He was kept inside the fort, so that He should not see the difficulties of the world at all. But one day it happened, He came out with his charioteer and got to see. Then He started seriously thinking, “Why should we die?” His charioteer says, “Everybody will have to die. This is impermanent, master. Our physical bodies are all impermanent.” Then seriously, He became worried. And He got into that detachment. “If it is all impermanent, what is it that is permanent?” So, He became restless until He did not find that. Thus, He became enlightened. He became a Buddha.
So, that is how if we understand the impermanence of this world, our own physical bodies, impermanence of everything that we have. So, that's what gave such vairagya to us also, within us, quietly inside. When we read the “Bhaja Govindam, Govindam bhaja mudhamate, sampraptē sannihitē kālē, nahi nahi raksati dukrinkaranē”. ‘Dukrinkarane’ was a grammar word that a scholar was trying to memorize by repeating it. Adi Shankara was coming from a bath in the holy river Ganga. And He got to see him and then composed this song and sang. “Sing the glory of the Divine. Remember the Divine because when death happens to your physical body” – “sannihitē kālē”. ‘Kālē’ means, when the time comes. The Divine is known as ‘maha kala’; ‘kala’ is the time that lapses, that goes by. So, that's what in the name of that, the Lord is known as Lord Shiva as Maha Kāleshwara. Means, when time comes for the body to end, none of your worldly wealth, health, scholar[ship], anything, cannot come to your rescue. Only you have to purify your mind, control your mind by remembering the Divine. So, that gave such an obsession and insight into the impermanence of this world.
So, these things can always give a detachment for us, but not necessary that one should simply give up the world or the life they are living. There is no need. I have always recommended or as a disclaimer or a side – think to a better understanding. You live a normal life in the world. Just be ready that the world is impermanent, be alert, that is all enough that you have the vairagya. That's what is necessary. Vairagya is also, in other words for me, in my opinion, acceptance, when you have acceptance. You go on living whatever way you want to live. You are a householder, you are a business person, but simply go on accepting the things as it happens. Today we are here, tomorrow we may not have to be here. So, we have to accept that fact, then there is the vairagya for us.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. So, what I understand is that these great sages, everyone has had this strong experience that has led them to that vairagya. Like Babaji with Bhaja Govindam, like Ramana Maharshi when He was feeling He was dying in the room... all these experiences. Is this because of the destiny, prarabdha? How can we reach that experience so we can get that vairagya?
Shri Babaji:
You see, when it happens, that is to be considered as a destiny. Before that, don't keep waiting for destiny, that when the destiny comes, then it will happen. You try to understand. Just like today you asked a question. That is your destiny. And you got to listen to my answer. That is also your destiny. So, the destiny is always there in front of you. Then consider this as a destiny and develop vairagya. This world is impermanent. This is not going to be there forever. We need to find that which is permanent when we have the opportunity. That means, when we have the physical body, we have a beautiful opportunity to know ourselves as the eternal entity soul.
That’s what Krishna tells Arjuna. Repeatedly, we talk about these things, you see? “Before death shall claim thee Arjuna, go to the knowers of truth, sitting at their Lotus Feet.” Everything is taught in this one shloka. You have to approach a Self-Realized Master. You need to have the yearning, understanding that you want to know that truth before death happens to your own physical body. Then you need to have reverence. You need to sit at the Lotus Feet of such a Master and seeking their permission, ask intelligent questions. Then, adopt such methods advocated by them and achieve the Truth to yourself.
Today, many people, they want to become a student, but they are in a rush. They write, one person writes to me, “Master, can you initiate me? Please initiate me into tapas. I am into deep meditation.” I wrote to him, “Whenever it's possible for you to come in front of me I can initiate you, but just now you participate in the Zoom. When I instruct, consider that as the initiation and keep practicing and go ahead.” Then, he wrote back, “I have got a strong intuition, I want to go to another saint. So, what is your opinion?” So, what opinion shall I give? If you want to go to another saint, you go, you don't have to ask me. But if you have faith, you wait until you get that opportunity, that moment, then you have the faith. And then you have the vairagya. So that has to be permanent. Not that jumping from one tree to another tree, “So this tree is not okay. Let me go to that tree,” then you will miss all the trees. Somebody else will take away the fruits. So, that is vairagya.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. So, what are the signs that we can understand that we are progressing, achieving that vairagya? Babaji said acceptance, but there are more signs that we can notice them and see that we are really progressing in that?
Shri Babaji:
See, peace descends. When peace descends, then we won't have that anxiousness, or abruptness, or a rush that “We want to have it just now. If the master can give, then He is the master. If the master cannot give, let me look for some other master.” It is not like that. You need to have faith. This is the first symptom that you have yearning. Natural, real, genuine yearning for Self-Realization. Then you will not look back. One master, you accept and you wait for the Grace, for His blessings. And then as you practice, your awareness increases about the impermanence of the world, about the universe, about the body. When anything happens, you will have the better understanding, “So this had to happen. After all, this is impermanent. So, there is nothing to brood or worry. Somebody, loved ones go away. It had to happen. This is impermanent world. It is natural for this thing to happen. When our own body is going to give up, leave us alone, and go away, only till the last moment this body is the best friend, it will be there. But one time this body will also go. It cannot hold us always. It has to go away.” So, this type of understanding it can give you, that we are progressing. We become more mature and remain composed, peace descends, acceptance also comes for us. So, that is the best symptom.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. And how important is it to achieve that vairagya while in the world and not to run, try to escape the world to achieve that vairagya?
Shri Babaji:
See, the vairagya is such an important... that’s why reading Adi Shankaracharya's teaching since childhood, my mind always repeated in prayers, “Oh, my Divine, please grant me jnana, bhakti, vairagya.” These three things are important. Jnana is knowledge awareness of the truth, and Bhakti – total devotion, mind, consciousness, merged with that truth, to that truth always. And vairagya – detachment from the unreal, which is not real, which is impermanent. “Always let me have that detachment that nothing else should attract me ever! If I come to the Lotus Feet of my Master and I’m in the monastery, never look back, nothing else should attract.” Because after all this monastery Ashram is also in the society. Hundreds of types of people will come to the Ashram also. They will be belonging to different walks of life. And you get to see the world also. You go to buy something, you go to bring something for the Ashram so much to get attracted, to suck you to the world. But if you have the vairagya, then you know it is all impermanent, then you will come back. You will come back to your monastery. You will not get attracted to run away from the monastery. Means, monastery is the Lotus Feet of our Master. That type of imagination, that vairagya will come. Under the umbrella of our Guru's grace, we live.
We got to see in these fifty years that we have been at the Lotus Feet of Master, we got to see the entire world. Worldly people come here also, they talk, they do wrong, everything happened. But our minds never got attracted that we have to give up this Ashram and go away. Never, not even a moment. That is vairagya. If the attachment comes to the Lotus Feet of the Master, the vairagya to the other is automatic. The mind can be either here or there. If the attachment is to the world, then your vairagya is to the spiritual life. If you have attachment to the spiritual life, you will have vairagya of the world. In the world, you are just satisfied with whatever you get. Any type of food, that is fine, there shall not be any craving. That you have to run 100 miles to get a particular food. No need. “What we are getting in the monastery is the best one, whatever we can get.” Like that, always you feel satisfied. So that is vairagya. Never look back. Not that five years we stay in the monastery and then run away to getting attracted to the world. That is not the vairagya. Vairagya is, you never look back, you are ready to die. You are ready to live and die for the Master like that. So, that is vairagya.
Same Questioner:
Thank you. Babaji. So, this leads to the next point that is; this progressing in that vairagya towards this creation at the same time seems to create more faith and attachment towards the Guru. So how these two seeming opposites can go together?
Shri Babaji:
You see, I spoke about the monastic disciples, people who live in the monastery. But people who live in the world also can be genuinely spiritual. When they get attracted to meditation, want to have Self-Realization, want to know about themselves, want to have the jnana, bhakti, vairagya. They also can have. They can live, lead a normal life in the world, no problem. But all the time their mind needs to be on the Master, on the method of meditation that is given. You do anything, you go anywhere, you get to see your Master only in your heart. Even if you go to some other monastery, you must know that there also it is your Master who is there. You get to see your Master always. Whether we go to temple of Lord Shiva or Vishnu, we get to see our own Shiva Balayogi there always and nothing else.
So that is the mind's bhakti. So that is how you can maintain yourself being in the world also. You don't get sucked into the world. You try to take up all good habits that are connected to spirituality. You will never get attracted to such programs which are worldly, which will keep you away from spirituality, from your Master. You will always try to do something that can remind you of your Master. So that is how even for a worldly person, a vairagya can be there. A vairagya can always sustain that person to be on the spiritual path. Like every week, restlessly you will wait for the Zoom classes for the meditation, “Oh Master is going to come on live.” Sometimes, a certain week if I am traveling or anywhere busy with some other important equally important program of spirituality, then I would excuse, rarely though it happens, that I won't be able to come live on this Zoom. But then also you participate, try to see my recorded talk. Try to remember, “Oh, we will wait for another one week. Restlessly let us wait. The Master is going to come back.” Not that you give up your interest and go away somewhere else.
That genuineness is what the Master tests always. Watching the YouTube short videos, shorter things, many emails keep coming. But many of them are very rushed. They are in a rush. They think that we simply touch their head and give them Self-Realization. They don't have to do anything, such type of people come. When I explain to them genuinely, sincerely, then they lose interest. They try to look for some other miraculous person whom they think might be able to give them Self-Realization. But it never comes to them, such people will never get Self-Realization until they don't put self-efforts, until they don't practice meditation, until they don't cleanse their mind, make their mind quiet and silent, that will not come. So that determination must be there, that this is our Master. Wherever you are, you see your Master.
Same Questioner:
So, Babaji, this vairagya, how is the process with the Guru? Like we get the vairagya towards this creation, but why this vairagya doesn't affect the attachment towards the Guru? It seems to make more strong that attachment.
Shri Babaji:
You see, now this doubt might come to many people. Does it mean that we need to have vairagya towards our Guru also? Not in the beginning. In the beginning, it is recommended that you have attachment to the Guru. That one thought can keep you away from all other thoughts. It is like you need to use that one ladder to go up on the terrace. You need that one. So, once you go on the terrace, always you are on the terrace. The terrace is the Guru. Like, it means once you become Self-Realized, you are always one with the Guru. You don't have to separately think about the Guru. Then the detachment, how it happens; from one place, like in an idol or a photo of the Guru or the physical body of the Guru, you will see the Guru within your heart. You will see the Guru everywhere in everybody's heart. In every action, everything that is happening, you get to see your Guru only. That level will come one day.
So, in spite of that also, like now my Guru has dropped His physical body, He is no more there. After Self-Realization, I am always with the Guru in the awareness of Guru. That means consciousness is worshipping the Guru only. Still, yet, I play with the idol of my Guru. I would like to pour water, do abhishekam. I would like to give a bath to my Guru. I would like to worship by offering flowers. I would like to do puja by offering an aarathi with the camphor. Everything I do. This is just to inspire others so that let all others also join, and let their minds be single pointed until they also don't achieve a Self-Realization. This is like a prarabdha. Since childhood if I am used to these type of exercises… see, though God is everywhere in everything, but we are used to imagine God in a particular way. In that idol, in that form, as a Guru, like that. So, we cannot imagine Guru in the hospital or in the pillar or in a tiger, anywhere. Though there is God in there also. Narayana is in the tiger also, everywhere. But we are used to remembering the Guru in this form and we would love to continue. Vasistha calls it as prarabdha. Like that, we always try to remember the God or the Guru. But inside you are merged with the Guru. The Guru is always there.
Same Questioner:
Thank you Babaji, Sometimes Babaji has said that Swamiji tried to, for Babaji, when He was going to tapas or while He was in tapas, trying to remove that attachment towards the Guru so that can lead towards Self-Realization. It was like that?
Shri Babaji:
Slowly He trained that your faith is your Guru. You will see your Guru within you only, like that also. In tapas also He trained. He guided. Even much before also He tested the faith. When you have the faith, the Guru will have to bless you. He is with you always. He doesn't have to be physically only all the time. Like for 20 years, though we were in the monastery only, there was no such opportunity that we could stay physically with the Master all the time. He used to come for two months and then go away traveling somewhere else. But we got hints, His teachings, His sayings. He wouldn’t sit down and read a chapter or teach like that. Simply by walking, sitting, eating, He would utter some beautiful Upanishad words or sentences that we used to catch. We used to be waiting, “What is it that the Master wants to convey?” Not what I want to convey to the Master. I always waited, “What is it that the Master wants to convey?”
So, I was always observant in everything, in every action of His, whether He was scolding, whether He was loving, whether He was caring, whether He was feeding, whether He was talking, everything I tried to observe, “What is it that He wants to teach?” Keep the mind quiet. Then you will see your Guru everywhere, not simply in the one physical body. Though a physical body is always a bonus, of course. As long as He was in the physical body, we wanted to go and spend time with Him. Even during the fag end also, I prayed, I prayed, I prayed and I troubled Him. Finally, He had to accept and allow me to go to Him and spend some time and then come back. Then very soon He dropped His physical body.
So, like that, like for example, He didn't want me to see when He was ill; His body was becoming very old. Because I had seen Him as a young person. In 1970s, when I saw Him, He was very young. So that was how I got the idol constructed for our Devarayasamudra Ashram also. I wouldn't accept any type of other old age Swamiji's idols. I refused, “This is not my Swamiji. My Swamiji is this one with a loin cloth, with just the kaupinam.” Not even a shawl used to be there on His body. That beautiful glow, that was how I saw Him. That is sitting in my consciousness because my consciousness merged with Him, when I fell in love with Him. That was the amazing thing that happened. The ‘I’ merged with Him. I was gone with Him when He left in the car after giving darshan. So that is there in my consciousness always. That's why I got this type of idol. Wherever I got a chance, wherever I have a say, I have a command to give order, I have got this type of idol only to do. Like in your background, everybody can see this beautiful white marble idol of Swamiji. And in the same way, in the temple also we have kept the Ashtadhatu idol also; bronze idol of Swamiji also is equally very beautiful. So I would get it done. That was how I saw Him. And always He's like that for me. I saw Him in everybody, everywhere.
Whenever I saw, I see Swamiji's devotees also, whether they are loving for me or they criticize me, they make fun of me, I keep laughing within me, “This is Swamiji's drama. He has no other job”. I keep fighting with Swamiji. When others criticize me also. “Always keep troubling, cannot You keep quiet for some time. Let me keep watching You”. That is another thing. I always loved to watch Swamiji. He was talking also, I used to feel irritated; inside me I used to pray, “Cannot You keep quiet for some time and just keep sitting. I just want to watch You, that is all. I don't want You to talk. I don't want to ask You anything at all. I just want to see You.” So, like that, He trained us and we practiced, and the vairagya was there towards the world. When the attachment was towards the Master, automatically there was no attachment towards the world. So, then the vairagya is automatically there.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. So, what is the connection between faith and vairagya? What is the relationship? What happens there?
Shri Babaji:
So, when you have faith, you are sure. You are for sure that it will happen. The Guru is there. You are sure of that. You won't doubt. The Guru's grace and blessings will always protect you. And you are sure of that. You are under the umbrella of your Guru and He will not allow you to go towards the world. You are sure of that. If you surrender mentally, He will definitely take care of you. He will create obstacles if you want to go towards the world. He will slap you, He will beat you with a cane. He will take care, if only you have that faith in the Master. If you don't have faith and you want to overrule the Master, abuse the Master and you want to order the Master, then the Master will withdraw and keep quiet, “This boy is not for the spirituality. He has attraction for the world. Let him enjoy the world. In some other life, He will come to me. Then I will bless Him again”. So, I don't accuse anybody. I bless. Even if I scold them, I bless them. I remove their karmas.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. So, this vairagya, the final vairagya is achieved once we reach Self Realization? Before that, both go simultaneously? So, how does it happen?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, final vairagya is when the mind totally becomes silenced and merges with the Self. When there is no thought of the ‘I’ also is there, no individuality, no ‘I’. Not even the imagination, “I am a Yogi. I have become a Self-Realized”. Nothing will be there. That is the real vairagya. Means, you are totally detached from any type of imagination once for all, it’s finished.
Same Questioner:
And, Babaji, when we reach that vairagya, how that person can normally function in the world and will it be needed for that person to function normally in the world?
Shri Babaji:
His function in the world shall be limited. He will not be a worldly-wise person attracting millions and millions of people, entertaining them with a disco dance. Like people don't come in tens and thousands to us. Few come. Even if four people are sitting in front of me and they meditate or they ask questions and they try to understand or they want to spend silently with me also. Like that. And like in this meditation, we have 130, 140 plus. This is a big number. I don't have to boast that I conducted a Zoom and 1,000 people came for meditation, statistics; no need for such things. We tell the truth.
To many of our Guru's devotees, they try to boast, “We initiated people for 600 people. We put it in the channel.” So that is simply boasting and we know that actually not even six people would have come. We don't need such things. Yogis don't need. Whoever is destined to come, they will be brought by my Guru actually. That's what I said from beginning also. Then we, our job is to just give meditation. Like my job is to answer your question. Questioning is your job. I just do my job. Like that.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. And what is the relationship between vairagya and doership? “I am doing this” or, “This is mine”. So, what happens when the vairagya is achieved with that doership?
Shri Babaji:
They both cannot stay at one place. If one is strongly there, the other disappears. The vairagya is there, the doership automatically disappears. When the ‘I’ itself is not there, the ‘I am doing something’ totally disappears. Long ago, after my tapas initially we were visiting a place. The host brought a big plate of food for me with so many items. One person who was sitting, he jokingly said, “Oh, how wonderful to become a yogi. Then people will serve me also with so many beautiful, eatable items.” I said, “If you are interested to eat all these things, never try to become a yogi. Because if you become a yogi, you will never be interested at all in these things. Even if it comes in front of you, nothing works in the mind at all. So, if you are really interested, you want to enjoy in the mind, you be an ordinary person and enjoy the world.” I told like that. So, when the ‘I’ itself is not there, “I am doing something,” will never appear.
Same Questioner:
So, Babaji, how the mind or the consciousness for the yogi works with that vairagya? How does it work in this world of worldly people and try to meet with others? How this happens?
Shri Babaji:
You see, when we behave in the world, to the matured eyes, to the people who can observe, every movement of mine, every world that comes out of the mouth will have some teaching of the Upanishad; something, some psychological teaching. Even if I am scolding a child also, it will be of a great meaning. Not that I am really annoyed with the child. Just want to channelize the child's energies properly. Somebody might think, “Oh, Baba is getting annoyed with the small child” – there is a meaning. We don't want the child to suffer later. If it becomes stubborn, it will suffer later. If we can do it… just I show an act, a little bit for a moment and I cool down, I withdraw myself.
So like that, when the thinking is needed, we think and do it and that it gets erased, it doesn't stay in the mind. Like every act of mine will be beneficial to somebody, if only they understand. I have told, even those people who abused me and left me and went away and abused, them also, if I scold also, they will be benefited. Their karma will not… they will not have to suffer. They will be blessed by God, or I will bless them. So like that, they will come back to spirituality sometime later again. Something will happen in their life. It will always be beneficial. So, when a Yogi talks or He does, it will always be meaningful. If only there are eyes to see it. Otherwise, it will simply go away.
We saw in Swamiji's life, some people were there very close to Him for years. But one time He scolded them, they left Him and went away. I used to wonder, which was not necessary, “He is not really scolding them. He is just annoyed only for a second. If only they had come back, He would have forgotten”. Because a thousand times we got to see that one. He used to be scolding us inside His room, ask us to get out, not to show the face. Simply I used to come out, take one round and go back and stand in front of Him. He would have forgotten. It would have got erased in His consciousness. He would never entertain any enmity, any dislike like that. Then He would feed something. And He would talk normally. You would be wondering, “Just a few moments ago He was so annoyed. Others would get terrified that he might break my head, something like that.” That was the Yogi. If only somebody can understand. But I saw several of His closest devotees who were with Him. They could not understand. They left and went to some other gurus also. Because they wanted to be VIPs. They wanted to be very important for themselves. They did not give importance to the Master.
When something wrong happens in our life, our things are snatched by the destiny, it is after all the Master, the Divine. He is the Divine. He is the Master. He is the Lord. He can do anything He wants. Let Him do it. He wants to snatch something from me. Let him snatch. It's over. When He wants to give me, He will give me. When He wants to take away, He will take away from me. That is His play. We just accept it. Like that, if you love the Master, you will know that a Yogi's operations are always beneficial. Swamiji also used to tell, “Even if I slap somebody, I will do beneficial things to that person. I will never harm anyone.” Because a Yogi's consciousness is so pure. Knowingly, unknowingly also He cannot harm anybody at all. But rarely people of this world can understand this phenomenon.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. Just the last question to finish with is, being with Babaji and also hearing the stories of how the Yogis teach, I see that they teach through the daily life. Many people expect like spirituality is having some experiences, or talking about mystical things, but finally the yogi teaches through the daily life and the scoldings and the, “Do this small job”. All this is what makes their mind progress towards the goal. So, can Babaji comment on that?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, you see, you have seen all those people who are with me. Only at that moment I will pull them up, if they are abrupt, if they are immature, if they are going to commit mistakes – by this, they lose discipline. See, always, whatever we train or we scold, we try to make them disciplined so that eventually when they sit for meditation, they remain disciplined. If a person is talking too much, like a chatterbox, I warn and I scold sometimes, I might scold, “Enough. How much are you going to talk like this, idiot?” Like that, something affectionately I might tell. That is I am training that boy, so that when eventually he sits into the meditation, he should not be talking. He should not be talking at all, let alone much, or so much, or anything. That discipline is needed when he sits for meditation.
So, whenever you sit for meditation, all of you need the first discipline, that bodily you don't move for one hour. Then your eyeballs and eyelids don't move. Then see the miracle that you yourself become still, and you become aware of yourself that you are the mind. You are the consciousness. Everything was you. And then that ‘you’ also disappears. Then you will see Divine, the Ultimate Truth. That is the process that can happen. But for this, enormous amount of discipline and dedication are required. That's what a Guru trains and tests. Everything He does. If we give work for you, you have to dust the Ashram, you have to clean the gardens, cut this one, do work there, drive the vehicle anywhere. So, people might wonder, “I came to meditate, but I am not meditating, I have to do all these things”. Like Swamiji made me to do all odd jobs. But all such odd jobs gave us vairagya, discipline, dedication, discipline, such amount of attachment to spirituality and Guru, that the Guru Himself could not disturb it finally. We took it as a challenge when Swamiji wanted to disturb or test. You can call it either ‘He wanted to test’ or ‘He wanted to disturb’, test me and disturb like that. Nothing doing – “We are going to love you more. You cannot make me not to love you. You don't have the power, my Lord. God does not have”. Your love should be like that. Then that is the successful training that you are getting from your Master, your attachment and your learning from the Master.
You have not come just to eat and be merriment, and dictate the terms to the Master and you want to do what you want to do. A boy came, and just he wanted to push me backward, “You just remain in the room, I can handle everything.” He was in such a rush to take over the mission. I said, “Don’t do like that one, you are not yet ripe. “I have loved people. I have built up a group with love and care, with affection. I have never scolded or become rude to anybody. I have never tried to hurt anyone. You also learn that first from me. You learn from me. Then you will be eligible to handle the mission. When you handle, you should handle people affectionately. When you allow them to question, let them ask any type of question. You have the patience, affectionately answer them, enlighten them about the question. Even if you cannot answer, when “No” is the answer also, say it with a smile.”
Same Questioner:
Thank You, Babaji. So I think we can open up the session for the people to ask any question.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, we can do that one.
Question:
Babaji, I met You in JP Nagar on 5th and 6th, 7th August and I got initiated by You, Babaji. Who should I take as a Guru? Babaji or Swamiji?
Shri Babaji:
It is all the same. If Shiva Balayogi is appealing, you can take Him also as a Guru and you can take guidance from me also. Both are same actually. There need not be any confusion.
Same Questioner:
I am watching His YouTube when He was alive. He had given a lot of YouTube; I am watching in Telugu also, a translation. And I am very much attached to that actually. He is telling some “Jabujabujabu”, I am very much fond of his accent.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, He was very childish and innocently, beautiful He used to talk. Like an innocent child He used to talk.
Same Questioner:
One more question, Babaji. You are asking to concentrate in between the eyebrows. What is the significance in watching here?
Shri Babaji:
Watching here means you are trying not to do anything in the mind. That is the significance. If you are just watching, you are not imagining anything when you are able to watch through the mind. That's what you have to achieve.
Same Questioner:
Thank You Babaji.
Question:
Pranams, Babaji. So, I have noticed that even as I develop a little bit of vairagya or so it seems to me, I become more of a witness. I noticed things that I never noticed before, whether it is in nature, mostly in nature or in life, but it is more of being a witness quality. Is this conducive with... Normally what happens as you lessen your strength of your attachments; you become more of a witness?
Shri Babaji:
You become more of a witness. Whatever you come across, you are simply a witness. Mentally, you are not getting involved in any way.
Same Questioner:
So, it's okay that I am noticing more as long as I am not analyzing it?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, yes.
Same Questioner:
Okay. Thank You, Babaji.
Question:
Pranam, Babaji. Babaji, when we experience physical illness or mental illness or those around us are experiencing deep physical and mental illness, how is it possible to cultivate vairagya in those situations, please?
Shri Babaji:
See, vairagya doesn't mean that you have to look the other way from them. You can sympathize them or you can love them. You can try to attend to them. Vairagya is if you don't worry in your mind. What is the teaching here; simply by worrying in your mind, you yourself becoming agonizing, you cannot help them. But if you're mentally strong and you have that peace, then you will be able to help them better. You will be able to console them. You might be able to pray for them. Whatever physically you have to attend, you can definitely attend to them. Simply, the vairagya doesn't mean that you have to look the other way. So, simply, mentally you don't get involved [into] agonizing for you, suffering for you, is the vairagya.
Same Questioner: Thank You.
Question: Pranams, Babaji. Babaji, I wanted a translation or a description. I was reading a text through Yoga Vasistha. So, Sage Vasistha says that there are two ways of abandoning all notions from the mind. Let's say, like, Realization. One way is abandonment of ego sense through intense contemplation. So, the translator is calling it ‘contemplative egoless’. And the second one is the ‘direct realization of egoless’, which is through direct experience. So, Babaji is like, with your experience, it feels both happened, vairagya, and then the tapas. So, I just want to understand, are they two different things or they reach to one single goal?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah. You see, here, the contemplation means you should be able to understand the finest point of the truth. Then your mind will give up the other thing actually. So, that is how the awareness will come, “Oh, this is it”. Like, for example, years ago, when I read Yoga Vasistha, apart from other things like all pervaded, omnipresent; everybody has read these words, terminologies. But, in that, one important terminology He uses, “That truth exists in itself”. This struck me in my contemplation, “Oh, God, that means this all-pervaded space, it is not simply a void place or simply a space. This is the Ultimate Truth, Supreme Consciousness. So, mind became quiet in such a way, ‘dumbfound’, what you call it, that type of [thing]. So, that type of contemplation through which a reality, you are able to get the finest point, important. Or, you follow the path of sadhana through which you try to overcome all imaginations once for all. Then also you get the awareness. So, that's what they talk in this script.
Same Questioner:
Babaji, does that mean this contemplative is to use your mind to understand the mind itself?
Shri Babaji:
No. In the beginning, you try to understand so that your mind becomes quiet here. That is the trickiest situation. You cannot know what it is in the mind. When the mind gives up with that amazing, “Oh God, this cannot be known by imagining. This is beyond that”. With that thought, the mind becomes quiet. The ‘I’ also becomes quiet. Remember Guru Nanak's “Tera, Tera, Tera…” He went on doing the Tera and the ‘I’, He lost it. He became one with that one. So, that type of amazing contemplation. Rarest of rare cases, it happens, but one can try. That's how it has to happen.
Same Questioner:
Thank You, Babaji.
Question: Babaji Pranam. I am from India, and thanks to your blessings and initiations, I have now started. Though I am just a beginner, I am trying with all my earnestness. But, you know, this whole path to Realization of course maybe a long one, maybe will take more lives depending upon how Guru wants to bless us. As a beginner, my problem is, looking here [inbetween eyebrows] for a long time is like staring at a wall. Nothing appears. And that ends up annoying me because I don't see if I am progressing or am I doing something wrong. Is there a milestone or is there something that I should see, or there is no guarantee like that?
Shri Babaji:
Ah, important, now pay attention. If nothing is appearing, you are really blessed. There is nothing that you have to see. Instead, the thing, one who is watching, trying to watch, that is the consciousness of existence, that is you as the infinite, which is not this body. But just now, if your mind is preoccupied with its imaginations and its consciousness is shifted onto the brain's reflections giving yourself as the body, it is not visible. But when you sit down and just try to watch, nothing appears. That means that you are trying to watch; that is there, that will not disappear. So, you just try to remain focused without losing interest or don't become frustrated at all. There is nothing else that you have to know. That is the Ultimate Truth. Until you become effortless, you are able to watch totally. Then it will take you introverted into Samadhi one day.
Another thing, you said you are a beginner. It is wonderful. Somewhere, something is better than nothing. You have begun is a very good thing. However, first day, one step, second step, don't try to look at the top of Mount Everest. It could be frustrating, “How long, how many lives to go?” Don't have to think like that. It can happen in this very life also. Have a positive feeling always and go on doing. You will be able to do it and achieve better things. More peace will descend for you. You will become a more matured person. And you will not feel hurt quickly in this world. You are able to let go of things, forgive. All these qualities will crop up within you, making you a matured, better human being. Our blessings and prayers for you.
Question:
Pranams, Babaji. Thank You for Your blessings. I had a successful knee operation. My question now is dealing with pain. Vairagya, pain, and can I offer this pain as a kind of tapas? Sometimes medicines are not enough. The pain is something I have to live with while the recovery is going well. But I wanted your advice, Your blessings also.
Shri Babaji:
Mentally, you can offer. Thus, you see, in the mind, if the pain is agonizing, you are bringing in the remembrance of the Guru also. So gradually, the remembrance of Guru overtakes the pain that is occupying the mental consciousness. So, like that, you can try to spend. That can serve like a meditation for you. It is like a playful struggle, a little bit, then you will enjoy it. The battle also will be enjoyable when you become a soldier. We will pray for you.
Same Questioner:
Thank You Babaji.
Question:
Namaste Babaji, thank You for Your time. I’ve got actually two questions. One is related to vairagya. And the other one is slightly out of the topic. But with vairagya, so when you have started feeling like you are not interested in some of the worldly things, but you are living in a family with your other family people, and they start to notice, like, “Oh, she used to do this before, now why is she not doing, what happened to her?” How do you explain to them? Or you just wait? You just hope that they will understand this later or something like that?
Shri Babaji:
I will answer this question. In our younger days also, we all faced this in the society, in the families. But one thing, “Simply I am not interested” – that is all enough. You don't have to explain. Because everybody may not be able to understand you, what you undergo about vairagya, why you don't feel interested anymore in such things, which is not needed. Simply politely smiling. Even if they criticize or make fun, remain smiling. Then that will make them cool down, and you will have your peace and concentration, continuation. That is all you can do. That's what you have to do. You have a choice. Everybody in the world makes their choice. The one who goes to the world also makes their choice. Even if you ask, “Why are you going to the world?” They say, “This is natural.” If they ask you, you can tell, “This is natural for me. I am not interested to do that.” Opposite, that is all.
Same Questioner:
Thank You. And the next one was, I just want to know what your thoughts are on the Christian teaching. Because I come from a Christian background. And when in the Bible, it says, “Christ, it is through me, I am the way, the truth, and the life. And it's only through me you get salvation.” So I'm being told that from other people in my family that I'm going the wrong way or something. And it's only through Christ that you can attain salvation. And all our sins are already forgiven. So, there's nothing. I don't know how you would interpret that?
Shri Babaji:
Some of my opinions: See, we have had highest reverence to Jesus Christ also since childhood. That which we heard are some of the teachings and His life, sacrifices, everything. Also, our Guru also taught us that all religions are equal and honourable. So that way everything is really great and wonderful. Now, another point, through Jesus only doesn't mean that that physical body is the only Jesus. Try to see your Jesus everywhere, in everything. Everybody that you meet, your Jesus is there. Your Jesus is in your heart. So like that, through wherever you feel inspired, that is your Jesus.
If you look like that one, you will feel so satisfied and you will not forget your Jesus. And you will see that your Jesus is always with you in every form, in every way, teaching you so many things. Actual Jesus’s teachings are also equally like the meditation things that He saw. The Father, Holy Spirit, Kingdom, these terminologies that He used. For the Kingdom, we call it the Ultimate Truth or Parabrahman, or the Holy Spirit is the Divinity. Like that, the Father is that beyond all imaginations that we try to talk. The same thing He spoke in such a language that was prevailing in those areas. And He also said, “When you go introverted in the mind, when you are totally still, know that as the Truth” also He has told that one place, I have read in an article about Jesus. And also “The Kingdom will come in its own way, not the way that you expect”. That means the Kingdom, not of this world, the Kingdom is of your heart, your Divinity. So like that, if you do that, you will not be confused. You can remember Jesus only everywhere. You have the right of choice. So through that only you will get salvation. But that doesn't mean it is to be through that physical form of Jesus.
Same Questioner:
Okay, so yeah, it's not my confusion really. It's only because when they tell me that, I don't know what to tell back to them, because if Bible says something, then I can't say that is wrong, because then you can question the Vedas as well. Because I don't say that anything is wrong, but…
Shri Babaji:
You don't have to question about Bible or Vedas, talk about that at all. One thing you can say, my Jesus is everywhere. I am seeing only Jesus. I learn from Jesus only. You simply tell this much. They will understand.
Same Questioner:
You got me wrong. They are saying that it is only through Jesus that you can get salvation. But I'm not saying that. So they're saying that I should follow Jesus and not worship others like Shiva and things like that. I shouldn't do that. That's what they are saying.
Shri Babaji:
I understand. For that only, so that you don't have any confusion, I'm trying to tell this thing. If they try to accuse you or they try to teach you, you can tell, “I see my Jesus only everywhere”. And the controversy, argument ends. Simple. Then you go on doing your things. May Jesus bless you always.
Same Questioner: I see, right, okay, thank you.
Question:
Can you please say something more about attachments coming from a place of giving and not needing. Because attachments we have already made are very difficult to go. And how to strengthen the faith that it's Divines will to give and take any time?
Shri Babaji:
Try to see the Divine in slapping, in a kiss, in both. Try to see Divine in a love, and in a dislike. All these things. So, both is coming from the Divine. Then you will understand, it is the Divine who is playing this drama. And mentally you have nothing to feel good or bad. Then your mind will cool down and become quiet. Acceptance will come like that one. You are a part of it just doing the drama. Slowly you will become a witness when you learn to see the Divine everywhere in everything. So, that is the one way best possible that you don't feel attached to one physical body. That doesn't mean that you have to dislike a person. Simply you are alert that the physical body will go away one day. So that's how this world also is impermanent and will go away. As long as it is there, it is fine. You are simply alert, even if it goes, there is no problem for you because it has to go. That type of thing will help you to remain detached and yet be a normal person in the world. Carry on the meditation, finally, will help you practically to experience this status that I am talking.
Same Questioner:
Thank You, Babaji.
Question:
Namaskar, Babaji. Actually, my question is we need a car, home, money, for our daily living purposes. And if we don't have these things we should surely be considered as a failed person also. So can the desire for these needs lead to the obstacle in this spiritual path? And how to balance the desire for the materialistic needs and the spirituality?
Shri Babaji:
You see, having a desire itself is not a problem. You want to earn, to have a livelihood. Slowly as you meditate, you will learn to earn only for your need. You will not become greedy. You will be able to set a target. A standard life you would like to have in this world, that you have sufficient for yourself to eat peacefully. So, that much you have to earn. When you work also, that work also will become worship when you simply remember the Divine and meditate. So simply ready and be alert that the world is impermanent. That is what will give you detachment.
Detachment doesn't mean that you have to become depressed and give up everything. You need money to live. You need food. Even if you go to temple or a monastery also you need food. You need money to run the monastery also. Not simply for a householder; everywhere. But like the old saying, “You eat to live, don't live to eat”. Money can be a very good servant but a bad master. So that type of things if you understand, it should be alright. It's no problem that you want to earn something for yourself. And you can fulfill your dreams. The same time go on meditating. That will help you to balance between spirituality and the worldly life. Prayers and blessings for you.
Question:
Pranams, Babaji. Babaji, my question is very simple. While sitting for meditation is there any direction where we have to follow to sit?
Shri Babaji:
Ah, in our Guru Parampara, our Guru was asked by his Guru to follow directions. The same thing He guided me, that's why we did. Probably the mind should overcome the directions and conquering. So though in our philosophical things, the northern and eastern directions are required, for noble things and the saintly things that's coming from Himalaya. So if you like you can try to face the north and east in the beginning. Only when you do tapas you have to do all the four directions. Otherwise, these two directions are better.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji. And my one more question is, I heard you saying that, you know, we have to remove all our labels as “I'm a businessman, I'm a big person”, while coming to you or going to any seer. So, it is like we have to lose our ego, that means we should not carry our ego along with us? So, I have read elsewhere that we can lose ego by doing only seva?
Shri Babaji:
Ah, see, seva doesn't mean that only from outside seva. Along with the outside seva, you need to be selfless. You need to lose the idea of doer-ship also. In the same way, if you meditate also the same thing will come. Like, you will be a normal person doing a seva or even if you carry on your business or anything that you are having, these things will not attract your attachment too much more than that is necessary. You will just do it as a duty. Even when you are marketing also, you will consider it as a service to the Divine. Like that your mind will get purified. That is the real seva. My Master used to tell, “If you have twelve bananas, you keep four bananas for yourself, give other six bananas distribute to others. That seva will be helpful to you. If you become greedy to have all the twelve, then the trouble starts,” He used to say, a simple example. So that way whatever you are having, a little bit you give to somebody and you keep some for yourself. Fine.
Same Questioner:
Thank You, pranam Babaji.
Question: Namaskar Babaji. Since You started serving at Swamiji's Ashrams many decades ago, due to your growing vairagya, did you stop enjoying art, such as in books, music, movies and TV shows, etc.?
Shri Babaji:
No, no. I enjoyed everything that was spiritual, connected to my Guru and the Divine. Everywhere I just wanted to see Divine. The music also, I enjoyed the Divine. Whichever could give me the Divine remembrance – that we enjoyed definitely.
End of Session