Making Moola - Erika Rier

A Colorful Trajectory: Artist Erika Rier

In this episode, part one of our Making Moola series, Jen talks to Portland artist Erika Rier about how she entered the art world through hard work, a few bi-coastal moves, and killing it on Etsy, Patreon, fairs + galleries.

We touch on: 

Using both Etsy and Patreon as a fine artist

How Erika uses Patreon as what she calls “an incubator” for ideas

Being defined by other people as an artist

How trying to not put yourself in a defined box can free you creatively

Why not caring about what other people think is empowering

Using ceramics or small works as an introduction to more expensive works

Why following your own path is important 

Links:

Erika’s website

Erika’s Etsy Account

Erika’s Patreon Account

Erika’s Instagram: erika_rier


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Transcript

Jen Tough: 0:00

Welcome to tough on art, the podcast for artists interested in ways to get ahead in today's art market. I'm Jen Tough owner of Jen Tough gallery and the Artist Alliance community. Join me for some down to earth talk about the best ways for artists to navigate this new and different landscape. After being a freelance art director and graphic designer for years, and then selling art at my gallery, I'm always interested in how artists make a living and which paths artists take to build their career. Making money for artists has always been a huge issue. Do you do the nine to five and then toil away in your studio at night? Do you do commercial art to pay the bills? So I decided to have some conversations with artists who have been successful in supporting themselves while still making art. So I'm calling this series, making Moolah. For the first episode in this series, I'll be chatting with Erika Rier. Erika has a wide range of work, including painting, drawing zines sculpture, clothing, ceramics, and more. She likes to call her style folk surrealism, a name that I think fits considering her wide range of work, curious characters and dreamlike narratives. Erica has lived all over the country, including Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, New York city, Arizona, and Washington state, but now happily resides in Portland with her daughter, her husband and cat. I wanted to chat with Erica because she's been super successful in supporting herself as an artist in a variety of ways, including Etsy, Patrion, direct sales to people, and then gallery sales. She offers some great insight and tips for artists that might be interested in quitting that nine to five and ditching with the, what will they think, mindset and forging their own path. We also talk about wearing bright colors in the Pacific Northwest and how not fitting into the regular. Quote, unquote fine artists box is actually a fantastic thing. You can learn more about Erika in the show notes on our website, tough on art.com or you can visit her website. Erika rier.com, which is E R I K A R I E R.com. There's kind of like all these myths and stuff that are attached to being an artist. Like you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. Like, there's you certain sort of prescribed trajectories that you know, that people are supposed to take. And I think it's all bullshit, really. I really do. I think that, you know, it's, it, it doesn't make any sense and it's, it's almost set up to really not. It doesn't help artists at all, basically, you know, like, because artists get in their mind like, Oh, I shouldn't sell on Etsy. And I know you sell on Etsy and you do great. You do great on Etsy. So those are the kinds of things that I was hoping to do.

Erika Reir: 2:46

Oh, like real paintings on Etsy. It's not like, I mean, I saw a lot of like prints and stuff like that, but like I just sold an$1,800 painting on Etsy to someone I've never met on the other side of the country. Like people are so down on Etsy and I'm like, My like, I mean, I it's like getting a paycheck every week is just my Etsy shop.

Jen Tough: 3:05

That's fantastic. So let's unpack that a little bit. So this, this whole idea of artists saying, Oh no, I'm not going to tell an Etsy. Matter of fact, I got an email just the other day, like, Oh, I don't want to sell on Etsy. I don't want to do something like that. And it's like, Why not right? Like, what is this idea that there are certain things that are okay to make money on and certain, and then other things that aren't like other ways to earn money, like artists, lots of times think Oh, I can only teach. That's the only sort of acceptable way to earn money, but let's talk about your, your Etsy experience. How long have you been following you been doing that?

Erika Reir: 3:41

I started on Etsy like literally six months after they started being a thing at the time. So. I've been an artist since I was a teenager, but always was trying to find a, like a way to make money. That wasn't my art kind of, for these reasons, thinking that I had to keep my art sterile and I had to find a real job to support my art. And I tried a lot of different things. I've been a seamstress since I was little, my grandmother taught me to sell when I was six. So I was a clothing designer for about 12 years when we lived on these coast. And so I started with Etsy when I was a clothing designer. It kind of makes sense for that. I had my own web shop also cause I did custom made clothing, but started with that. And then over the years have kind of changed, like eventually made an art shop. Probably. I think the one I have now is from 2010. I think that's how long I've had the current shop that I have. And I had a couple other iterations of it before then, but I've always had at least one sometimes up to three different Etsy shops. Depending on what I was doing when we lived in Arizona, like you've probably found this in the Southwest, like the vintage shopping and is really amazing, so I was supplementing my income down there for a while by South selling vintage stuff on Etsy as well. Just because we lived in a nowhere town in Arizona and the vintage stuff was magic. But, yeah. So I've been on Etsy for the better part of 20 years now. They were, they actually were founded in a building that was right across from where I lived in Brooklyn. So I had found out about them really early because of that, because they were just literally located by where I lived in Brooklyn.

Jen Tough: 5:13

That's great.

Erika Reir: 5:14

Yeah, but I've been on there a long time and it's been selling art and stuff on there for yeah. At least 10 or 15 years. Yeah.

Jen Tough: 5:21

That's I mean, starting anything really early like that and getting used to it, like being an early adopter, I guess they call it is always a really good thing to do. You know, it gives a little leg up. So you have, so you have a lot of experience and you know how the system works.

Erika Reir: 5:36

Yeah. I've tried a lot of different things. I mean, I've tried selling on my own site as well, and I've tried Etsy, but in the end, like at like anyone will buy my work through Etsy cause they trust it as a platform. So if someone follows my work already, they know Etsy is a secure way to buy work so that doesn't, there's no hesitation like, Oh, what is this weird website that I'm putting money into? But then at Esty. Makes money because I make money, you know? So it, they also, even though it takes a while to get to the point where they're siphoning you know, people into your, your shop. I get a lot of people who discover my work just because of Etsy. And some of those people become some of my best collectors. So. I mean, I, I have nothing but good things to say about them. Like, I don't like never have like the become like a top tier seller on there where I like get super promoted by them or anything, but just as a general user, I find them to be like, it just a really easy, it's an easy platform that brings me new, new, new audiences. And I just got a huge commission through it too. So I don't, I don't know how much you follow my work, but I just finished A giant ceramic installation for a hotel in Denver. And the curator found my work through Etsy.

Jen Tough: 6:44

Yeah.

Erika Reir: 6:45

I mean, that was like a huge project. Like I get real work because of my Etsy shop, which is magic.

Jen Tough: 6:51

Yeah. And that's, you know, and the, and the idea of also of real work, you know, enabling you to do your quote unquote real work by selling other stuff, doing commissions or selling smaller prints or whatever you might sell on Esty. I mean, you said that. You just sold an$1,800 painting too. Right?

Erika Reir: 7:08

Right.

Jen Tough: 7:08

That's amazing.

Erika Reir: 7:09

I've never seen one shows in real life who only saw the piece online. Yeah, they follow me on Instagram, but then they just went to the Instagram shop and like I posted the painting and they bought it within five minutes. I mean, it was just like immediate, it was mad. It was really amazing. Like, I just think it's a great, I think it's a great platform.

Jen Tough: 7:28

So there's a is there like a, like a shopping cart plug-in type thing for Instagram? How does that work with Etsy?

Erika Reir: 7:35

I think there is, I don't use it. I, the, like on Instagram, I just have a personal account. I I've tried having different ones. Business and commercial accounts, but I feel like my traffic suffers from it. So I'm back to having a personal account, which means I can't use the shopping feature. But I just have a link tree in my, like in my one profile link, I have a link tree. So it brings people to either Etsy or Patreon on my website and my website. I mean, it's nice that people go to my website, but I really have my website more for curators and applications. I don't really care if a normal average. Art buyer goes to my website. There's it's more for curators. So I mostly want people to go to Etsy or Patreon cause that's where I'm making money.

Jen Tough: 8:18

And so that's where you're putting your energy in for the most part when it comes to your marketing. I mean, that's super smart.

Erika Reir: 8:24

Yeah. And then, I mean, I think if, when it comes down to it, like I, yeah, I spend like probably two thirds of my marketing time on Etsy and Instagram and Patreon, and just like getting people excited about stuff there. And the other third of the time is really just like applying to shows, doing mailings to curators. I mean I do because I make a lot of different things. Like I often send like my newest art zine or book to two curators and our directors just to try to get shows and things like that. Because shows are really also an important part of my income. Still. It's been hard with COVID because of that, because usually I can count on a certain amount of income from my in-person exhibits each year, because I usually have like two to three solo shows a year. And I didn't, I didn't have any say in 2020, I had one solo show right before COVID happens like in February. So it was like, we, it was like in the ether, we knew it was kind of coming, but didn't know what it was. And that show was great, but then I didn't have any more. I had like two or three other shows that were postponed or canceled like last year. So that's hard.

Jen Tough: 9:26

When you do have sales, when you're looking back on like the last few years, like where are you making the most money, do you think? Is it from Esty? It was definitely at the, by far. Through Etsy. I also in the last year have started ceramics though, and I do, I do find art ceramics, but I also do like little.

Erika Reir: 9:48

Like cute dishes and cups because they helped me refine my skills and people will buy them. Because I do, I like doing sculptural ceramics, but like, it's, it's hard to get control of the clay of the way I'd like to, because I'm pretty pretty novice at ceramics. So making cups and other things is actually like really good at building my skills and letting me test out ideas and then I can apply it to the bigger work. And then people are more likely to buy that, to some extent, I don't know, the sculptural work has been selling really well too, so I'm not people buy ceramics a lot easier than painting.

Jen Tough: 10:21

I mean, that's, I, I found that even at art fairs too, People really like the sculptural stuff, because it's different because there's a lot of paintings in the world, you know?

Erika Reir: 10:31

So weirdly, since I started the ceramics, I do feel like my paintings are also selling better. I think the ceramics are bringing people to me, but then they see the paintings and they, they like that idea of pairing the ceramics and the paintings together because I show them that way a lot. Like often it's like a painting with ceramics that are like speaking to the painting. So I feel That the ceramics are just really good at driving people to me more because it's like an easy entry point. So I think the ceramics have kind of changed everything. I think all of my platforms are doing better.

Jen Tough: 11:04

Yeah. Well don't me never underestimate the power of merchandising.

Erika Reir: 11:09

Right, right. And I think I'm lucky in that way, in that I've always liked to make stuff like my grandmother was a crafter and, you know, she made these beautiful quilts and she was a knitter. So I'm a knitter and I. Sew so, and I like doing other things, like I like screen printing. I mean, I'd describe myself as an interdisciplinary artist cause I, while painting and drawing are my true loves, I do love to dabble in other creative things. And I think that. It kind of benefits me on Etsy because my Etsy shop, isn't just paintings, it's paintings and ceramics and art books and prints and other random things that I just decided on a whim to make one day. Cause I thought they'd be funny or interesting.

Jen Tough: 11:48

Well, you know, a lot of artists also, I mean, we were talking about like, there's sort of this, you know, it's sort of, poo-pooed in a way in some circles to not, do you Esty to your, not make other things and you know, one of the questions that I get all the time from artists is, is it okay? To have all these different kinds of series or work in all these different directions and no, absolutely. Yes. Like you have to explore. Don't you think like the difference,

Erika Reir: 12:14

my main body of work so much Richer, like how ceramics have changed my paintings and drawings in the last year and a half. I mean, I'm doing things I didn't think I would be doing before ceramics. And it's because of ceramics that I'm doing them and the way the two mediums are now pushing each other back and forth. I mean, I love just painting, but I also love going and working with my hands and like, Thinking about painting while I'm working with clay. And I think I'm, I think the different mediums would make my, my overall art stronger because I start thinking about things I might not think about while I was painting when I'm sculpting, you know, I think I, and it did take me a long time to get past this. Like I, in my twenties really struggled because I have a very illustrative style. I get called an illustrator a lot, which I really chafe under because I love illustration work, obviously, because my work is very like derives from illustration work. But like illustration work illustrates a points. My work is very multilayered. It's not an illustration. There's too much going on. So I get put in like an illustrator or a craft box often, and that I chafe under it. Cause I, I want to be seen as a fine artist, which is just stupid. And I think in the last 10 years, I'm like, I don't care. I don't care what people think I am. If they like the work, they resonate with the work they buy the work that's am I still getting to make the work? Cool. Call me whatever you want to call me. I just want to make sure the work, I don't care what people call me or what they buy or don't buy.

Jen Tough: 13:42

So when you kind of shook loose that sort of, that idea that, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a fine artist, but then everyone keeps sort of putting me in each other boxes of illustrator or you know, when you were finally able to sort of shake that idea and like, Hey, it's okay. Doing what I'm doing. Did you find that your work sort of turned, it was easier to produce you, you weren't as hard on yourself, maybe like, can you talk a little bit about that and share like how that shaking off those sort of ideas was freeing and in what ways it was.

Erika Reir: 14:14

I think that, I mean, I still there definitely. So days I struggle with it. Like my husband's he's also a painter, he's an abstract painter and he went to art school. I didn't go to art school. So there's like, I feel like I have a little bit of around me all the time in that, like the fine art thinking. But as I, I feel like I'm, it's a process on constantly going through, trying to release myself from it, but I feel like. The less, I care about it. The more complicated, a lot of what I make get. So when I first started making like little zines and comics and artists' books, they're really simple because I was like, Oh my God, people are going to see me as an illustrator because I'm making these little silly books and zines and comics. And then I was like, I don't care. Like I like making them, and now they're turning to these like just nutty over the top constructions with like fold out pages and hand cut panels. And I mean, they weirdly are getting more fine arty. As I released this idea that I don't care what people think I am anymore. Which is the weird thing over all, like I've started, I've started painting again and I hadn't. I had been an oil painter originally and stopped in my late twenties when my daughter was born. Because I really love drawing, you know, and I, and I felt like I was only oil painting cause I was supposed to be a painter because drawing is seen as like less valid for some reason. And really spent the next 10 or 15 years only drawing and doing some paint work on top of the drawing, but not. A painting on canvas. And then the last year I was like, well, I really, since I don't care anymore, I guess I could just paint also. And so I've started painting, but in general, I feel like now I feel free to just do what I want to do. Cause I don't feel like it matters. It's either going to resonate with people or it's not. And I should just make what feels true to me and what I feel moved to make the moment. Cause then I'll make my best work. You know, if I'm worrying about what other people think, I'm not making my best work.

Jen Tough: 16:05

Yeah, absolutely. You're not free to like, explore what you want to explore. So tell me a little bit about Patreon or Patreon. I always call it Patreon, but maybe that's wrong. Maybe it's my Ohio way of saying, but I think it is Patreon. It's like one of those things I never talk about out loud, so I get it in my head.

Erika Reir: 16:26

That it's one way, but yeah. Patreon would make a lot more sense. There's I do risograph printing kind of print work and people are always like, is it risograph graph or risograph graph? And there actually isn't a correct, correct pronunciation, which I find hilarious. Yeah. Patreon patron. John has been like a super slow burn for me. I also like jumped on it pretty early on after it was started because I just thought it was an interesting idea. It's. Definitely focused more on like the comic book kind of nerd community, like people who, you know, were buying stuff on Kickstarter and like really committed to certain like creative pursuits and like podcasts and things like that, where people. It just, they were already used to paying for content and kind of an unconventional way. So it's been kind of a slow burn because the people that follow me aren't necessarily in that community as much. My first Patreon supporters were definitely people who were like going to comic cons, but also happened to like buying my paintings. But in the last year that's been shifting like more people know what it is. There's still, aren't a ton of fine artists on there. But I'm up to like 28 supporters now. And they also, I mean, they all support me between$3 and$60 a month. They get a mailing depending on how much they give each month. They get a mailing anywhere from once a year to every month. So last month, everyone that qualified for that month got a six by eight inch acrylic painting. So it was like, I sent out like 12 paintings, I think last month, this month they're getting these pillows that I illustrated that are. That I'm in the middle of sewing. They're actually like on my sewing machine back there. And next month I'm making a new artist book for them. I'm doing an artist residency for the first part of the month. I'm going to draw the whole book there and then come home and print it and send it out to them.

Jen Tough: 18:12

That's great.

Erika Reir: 18:12

So it was cool. Cause it kind of pushes me to make new work because I want to give them really fun things. And it's a nice chunk of change at the beginning of every month, you know, that I get that I can count on which that the thing like. Of all the things like I, if everyone that liked my work supported me on Patreon, even just a tiny bit, even if it was just the$3 level, like that's what makes the biggest deal for me deal breaker for me. Cause I, I can't count on my income. That's the hardest part, you know? And so something like patreon is a paycheck that I can look forward to each month and know that I can count on plan on. And I think it's an amazing platform for supporting artists. You're very committed to because it just can change a person's economic perspective completely.

Jen Tough: 18:53

Yeah. I we've been I support an artist on there while she's a photographer, Joann MacArthur. She does. Do you know her? She does the animal rights. While she does, she does these beautiful photographs of animals you know, usually in not so happy situations. Yeah. And, but her photography is, I mean, to me is incredible. I just, and then she gives the photographs to anybody who might be writing about, you know, animal rights in one way or another. So, you know, she offers them for free. So I thought it was, you know, I've been supporting her, I think for spent maybe like eight years or something. And it's a lot, a lot, it's like$10 a month or something.

Erika Reir: 19:30

But I think when you add it all up between the different supporters, it really it's. It makes such a difference for me. Like it's the reason I recently I was working at a nonprofit here just two days a week and I loved it to death, but like trying to balance my business and the non-profit was really overwhelming and my Patreon getting bigger as the thing that made it. So I could finally be like, all right, I'm making as much now from Patreon. And as I am from a part-time job, I don't need, I can let this go. And at least know that I have that same amount of income coming in each month.

Jen Tough: 20:01

So, if you were to like other artists who might be interested in doing Patreon, what, what would you say to them? Do they, do they have to spend a lot of time marketing to do that? Is that like a constant, ongoing thing? What are your best tips for that?

Erika Reir: 20:14

So I think having an interesting, an interesting reward is really going to be the thing that gets people in. And I definitely notice that like on the months where I have like really interesting rewards. I get a lot more a lot more new subscribers that tend to stay. So it's like they get very excited about a certain thing. The nice thing about like designing things with Patreon in mind is that it gives me a way of sharing my Patreon without advertising it. Exactly. So like I did all those paintings last month. So every time I posted a painting on Instagram, I could be like, Oh, Hey, this is another one of those paintings I'm sending out to a Patreon subscriber, you know? And then I would. Usually get, you know, I did get a couple subscribers over the month just cause they got excited about the paintings. So just, you know, and then it's in everything I do. Like all my business cards, I have a link to it. It's if you buy something from Etsy, there's a link to it. And I think, you know, on Etsy in my newsletter, I mentioned it once a month. I'll mentioned it, my newsletter, just like this is what I'm giving people this month. Okay. Because it's the thing that it takes people awhile to sign up for, for some reason. So that's what I mean by a slow burn. Like either a couple of times where I was like, this is not worth my time, I'm giving up on it. But as I refined my reward system and my different tiers, having good tiers made a huge difference too. So like when I first started, yeah, when I first started it, it was just one tier and I only did a quarterly mailing cause they didn't want to be mailing things every month. But that like, didn't get people a lot of different ways of entering. So if they couldn't do$10 a month at the beginning, then they weren't going to sign up for and they might forget about it. But then I settled on$3,$5,$10,$15, 30 and 60. And that the 30 and 60 both monthly subscriptions, 60 just gets you a bigger box. So like this month I'm doing pillows. Most people just get one, but the$60 subscribers would get two. I it's like the supersize me level. And so, yeah. That gives people entry points at any place. The$3 subscribers often don't even realize that they're they get a physical mailing. So when they get them once a year, right. Randomly they're like, why did I get this? This is amazing. And I'm like, know, every year you get a box. Cause you're supporting me just, you know, just once a year though. Yeah. And then people can knock it up. Like if they get excited, they could like bump it up one notch. So I'll have people start at five and then go to 10 and like slowly work their way up to 30.

Jen Tough: 22:36

Yeah. I mean, the thing about having that, you know, a ton of subscribers and that, you know, at a lower price point, it can often be better than selling one big painting.

Erika Reir: 22:47

Yeah, no, and I think so, and also like the$3 a month subscribers only get my mailing once a year also. So like labor wise, they're actually kind of an easier, it's kind of easier, like sure. I make a lot more money. If I had more of the higher tier ones. I wouldn't complain about that. But I also wouldn't complain about having a a hundred, three,$3 subscribers, you know, like that's super manageable also. Because of the way I have it set up But I think it's really just about giving people options and not giving up on it and knowing it takes a while because people just aren't familiar with the idea of it. But as you like educate them about it and they start watching your feed and seeing what you're sharing, you know, it just kind of organically starts happening more.

Jen Tough: 23:29

So you started out getting the word out about your Patreon primarily on like Instagram and other social media. That's how you did it.,

Erika Reir: 23:37

my newsletter, which my newsletter, I only sent out like every two weeks and I don't have like a ton of subscribers, but the people's subscriber, like, like my, probably my most like diehard followers. So the chances that they're going to. Convert over to, to Patreon is much higher than I think any other platform. And it usually goes that way. Like someone follows me on Instagram, then they like subscribe to my newsletter. And then in a couple of weeks or months, they, they subscribed to Patreon.

Jen Tough: 24:03

Yeah. I tell artists all the time too, like don't, you know, sort of not think about all the friends and family that you already have. Like, you know, these people want to support you. They want to buy art from you. You know, just because somebody knew you before and they buy a painting, doesn't make that sale any less important or whatever. And they're the ones who, you know, that that's your community. Those are the people you turn to first.

Erika Reir: 24:27

Yeah. It's good for that kind of thing too. Like, I actually just think I had my first family members subscribe on there and I was like, Oh my God, that's so sweet, but it's nice for them. Cause they're not like they're not on, they're not on Instagram a lot. They live on the East coast. So we don't see each other a lot. And I think for them, it's like exciting to know that they're going to like get something from me every month. I mean, I would write them a letter for no reason also, but I think just knowing that they're going to get a little piece of art from me every month, it's just like, it's sweet for them, you know? That's a little, yeah. Yeah. Without having to like go through my Etsy shop and find something, you know, just fun to get something as a prize. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Tough: 25:03

Yeah. So has it been which thing do you think is more time consuming if you're, is it Etsy or is it Patreon for you? It's hard. Patreon is definitely in some ways the more time intensive thing, but then everything I developed for Patreon I then can use to sell in other venues.

Erika Reir: 25:20

So I almost think of Patreon as my incubator, you know, the desire to like get a new new work for Patreon will. Push me to, you know, write a new zine or make some new textile product or paint, a bunch of paintings I'm like around a certain theme. So I think it takes a lot of time, but it serves two purposes. One, it helps me refine skills like painting 12 tiny paintings. And a couple of weeks really helped me refine some ideas I had about painting in a way that like other kinds of things. It's harder to get that external, like push to really push yourself with a certain medium. And then I constantly have new new art books and things like that, that I'm releasing because of them. Etsy. So the thing is, is that like before COVID I also did a lot of in-person events and like a, like a very wide variety of type of events, anything from an art exhibit zine show, like zine shows or one of my favorite things to do. Cause I do a lot of artists zines. And I even do some craft fairs where I sell paintings and ceramics which typically is where I make the most money. The last year Etsy kind of stepped in for that. And I made the same amount of money from Etsy as I would've made from in-person events. So that was good. I just didn't feel like I got to meet as many new people and like expand my net as much. But but shipping is time consuming. I mean, honestly, like, you know, it's like if I have a good week, like if I'm at an event and I sell$2,000 worth of product, that's a lot easier than selling them with a product at home, unless it's like just, I paint a painting from that, but that's even stressful. You know, like shipping a giant painting across the country is nerve. Like, it creates a lot of money. You know, I, you know, packaging, it is very stressful. Yeah. And knock on wood. Everything's gone. All right. But you know, shipping is definitely, it takes a lot of time.

Jen Tough: 27:10

It's a nightmare and it's super expensive. I mean, I was just talking to one of my artists before we started chatting, we were on the phone and it's, every time I shipped something off, like some art, I swear I have to take sleeping pills that night because I get so freaked out about it. I mean, FedEx has lost stuff for us. And then they incinerated, Oh my God. You know, it's like, I know it's been, it's so stressful. If I hate shipping, like I would do anything to avoid shipping.

Erika Reir: 27:41

Oh, I usually ship like priority mail just because it's fast in that way. I don't have to stress out about it for as long, because the last big painting I sent through FedEx ground, I had to wait a week and I was like, I can't, I'm like I'm spending the extra$50 next time. I need to know. Faster. This is going to make it. I felt so nervous the whole time.

Jen Tough: 28:01

Yeah. Super nerve wracking. I know,

Erika Reir: 28:04

I know client like with an older client, I'm like, I know if something breaks or gets damaged that they'll let me paint them something new, but with a new client. And it's like, I just don't want that first painting to show up like, Broken in half.

Jen Tough: 28:17

Yeah.

Erika Reir: 28:18

Yeah.

Jen Tough: 28:19

So, so let's talk about, like, in the, in the beginning of your career, where you, when you first started out, were you working like a full-time job and then doing art on the side and then sort of, how did that go?

Erika Reir: 28:30

Conventional life on like a lot of levels. So I mean, I had a full-time job once for like 10 months in New York city, before nine 11 and I got laid off And I mean, I've worked a lot. I worked a lot of weird jobs in my late teens. I left home very young, like I was 17 and Worked some unconventional jobs went to college a little bit. I left high school after 10th grade, I was accepted to college early, but then I couldn't afford it college. So I wanted to be in artists. I don't work well in an office environment or anything. Right. So I was always like, what can I do? And I can't be an artist because no one makes any money from that. And that's kind of how I fell into dressmaking. After nine 11, I got laid off and I was living with my husband who was then my my boyfriend. And he was like, why don't you just make clothes? People are always complimenting your dresses. Like just make some dresses. I'll bring them to some shops and we'll see what happens. And what I started doing. I'd like make a bunch of dresses, put them in a bag and I'd go to boutiques and just shop and they'd be like, Whoa, I love your dress. And I'd be like, actually I sell them. You want to see something? Because New York was really weird at the time. And there were a lot of dress shops. Selling like handmade clothing that was like on a more consignment kind of system. So I started making a living as a dressmaker.

Jen Tough: 29:51

When was this? What year was this? Right after nine 11. So it was like,

Erika Reir: 29:54

so like 2001 early,

Jen Tough: 29:56

two thousands.

Erika Reir: 29:58

Yeah. And I kept doing that until I think my daughter was like two or three. I got really burnt out and sewing. I mean, you know, like having a toddler and sewing, I had someone that did sewing for me at that point, but I have a weird way of making clothing that I develop myself, that I had to assemble each piece of clothing. Someone else could. So it for me, but I. I always had to have a hand on it. So I just got super burned out kind of dabbled with the idea of nutrition, like becoming a nutritionist for a little while, because I have some like weird health problems. And so like kind of did some kind of health counseling, nutrition, counseling kind of stuff for a couple years. Then we moved to Arizona and I opened like a little shop where I started. Selling clothing and paintings. And then slowly from there, it just become just more paintings and I've stopped selling clothing at all.

Jen Tough: 30:47

So what, what, tell me about the shop where you, where was it?

Erika Reir: 30:51

It was in Patagonia, Arizona where it's like an hour South of Tucson's like 18 miles North of Nogales. Which is right on the Mexican border. It's like a mountain town in Arizona. It's very sweet. I ended up there cause I got a weird job working for some like hippie health food company. Cause we were just done with New York city. My husband was working for Viacom. I was raising a five-year-old in New York city and I'm from a town of a thousand people. I just couldn't wrap my head around. Like what do you do with a kid in New York? So we moved to a town that was the size of the one I grew up in. Yeah, but the shop was called tumbleweed and popple swamp. And. I kind of like I did nutritional counseling out of there. I had a wall full of paintings and I made dresses for like pretty much everyone that lived in town.

Jen Tough: 31:37

I love it.

Erika Reir: 31:37

Yeah. It was really fun. I loved it. And we probably would have seen stay longer. It was just, I think it would have been a hard place for his adore to be a teenager. And there wasn't like great work for my husband there. The commute to Tucson was too long. So we ended up in Washington state after that. And then I really was like, well, if I'm. Going to be someplace like this. I want to really just, I really just want to try doing art. And so that's when I made the transition to just doing art.

Jen Tough: 32:03

So where were you in Washington?

Erika Reir: 32:05

We're at Tacoma for awhile. Yeah. It's like an hour South of Seattle. So my husband actually worked in Seattle and community each day to Seattle. And there's a, but there's a great creative scene in Tacoma. I mean, I still, like, I think all of my best friends live in Tacoma and I go up there to do stuff really regularly. There's a lot of really cool stuff happening there. I don't know how to drive though. And the transit system was too hard for me there. So Portland has a much better transit system.

Jen Tough: 32:34

Yeah. Well, living in New York for so long, I'm sure you guys didn't have a car.

Erika Reir: 32:38

We never, we never owned a car as a couple until we moved to Arizona. And even in Arizona, we didn't have one for like the first eight months or so, because Patagonia actually kind of had everything we needed. And it was like very, you know, like Southwest towns are like very centralized. So they're actually weirdly walkable compared to a lot of other places I've lived. And there was a good store there and we'd get a ride into Tucson every month or so with a friends and. Yeah, we didn't have a car.

Jen Tough: 33:04

Okay. So then you were in, you were in Tacoma and then, and then you moved to Portland or where you somewhere to Portland's. Yeah. And then you were able to focus more on your art, art, and not so much the.

Erika Reir: 33:14

Yeah. I feel like Tacoma in a way was kind of like a two and a half year long artists residency because it was kind of stuck in the house. And I couldn't really go anywhere easily because of where we lived in Tacoma in relation to the train station. So I feel like I got to do so much work in Tacoma and really like. Got solid with what it was I was trying to do as an artist. Like I wrote my artists, like my artist's statement really well, and like really thought about what I was trying to do. And then we got to Portland and I was just like really ready to start, like putting myself into the world more. And I think it was really helpful, you know, having that time in Tacoma where I was a little bit secluded to just do the work. Yeah. And now being here, being able to just network Portland is a tricky city for me to sell art. And for some reason, I still ended up going to Seattle to do a lot of events or going to LA. But the artist community, the creative community here is really amazing. There's just so many artists here and people to talk to and con and be in contact with an amazing community studios to work out of.

Jen Tough: 34:13

Yeah, I bet there. Yeah. I mean, Portland, Portland has it going on? I mean, I think when I think about Portland, I always think everything cool comes from Portland.

Erika Reir: 34:23

There's a lot of the problem also is that like, it's like a little bit of a preoccupation with being cool here. And I feel like slightly cooler, less earnest work does better here. Like. Work more concerned with being cool. And I'm more concerned with like getting my point across maybe a little too East coast. My work's a little too feminine for the city. I think overall it has a slightly more like masculine art bro vibe going on, I think.

Jen Tough: 34:49

Oh yeah. I can see that. Yeah. I can totally see that. And you got a even an outdoor art fair you're doing coming up like or festival or something,

Erika Reir: 34:58

two different things. I'm just doing like, there's like this funny, it's called the Portland flea, but it's like everything. It's not, it's like there's art and there's. There's any kind of thing that you can imagine out of outdoor event. They, they do that at this little it's very like very chic. They like the best things there I've ever seen. Yeah. And the people who run it are amazing. I love them very much. But I did it for the first time last month. The weather was miserable, but it was still really great. Everyone that came through was really great and like, definitely my speed, like just finding the right places here for me, because there are a lot of different kinds of like cliques and niches and places to kind of find your way into here.

Jen Tough: 35:41

Yeah. I bet I would be intimidated if we moved to Portland. You know what I mean? Kind of cliquey like that.

Erika Reir: 35:49

Like like I'm actually wearing a black dress right now, but that's just, cause it was the next thing in my closet. I usually dress like very flamboyantly and bright. And when I first moved here, people stared at me so much that I started wearing black. Clothing for events because I thought people wouldn't come up to talk to me. If I had a bright color dress on now it's shifting now I wear bright clothing and people like, kind of seem to resonate more with it, but there was definitely a time where people were like, Oh my God, whats wrong with that girl shes got like, pink on..

Jen Tough: 36:15

Oh my God. Yeah. Seattle like that too. I had a friend when I lived in LA, who moved up to Seattle and he has dreadlocks that are actually rainbow colored. And he said, and he dressed really bright colors. I mean, they do in LA, California, and LA.

Erika Reir: 36:32

I always feel like right at home there, you feel more at home.

Jen Tough: 36:34

Yeah, but he was saying like, by God people thought I was just this total freak, you know? So, you know, he, he it was a thing.

Erika Reir: 36:41

Yeah. When we lived in Tacoma, my daughter and I would go out and people would just. Like stare at us. Like, I mean like rubber neck, I mean, it was uncomfortable to the point where there would be times that is Isador and I would get dressed and my husband would be like, you sure you want to wear that out? I mean, he likes the way I dress never as judged it, but you could just see, he knew everyone was going to stare at us.

Jen Tough: 37:02

Yeah. Well it's, I mean, it's kind of everyone wears super dark colors are, will same with New York on the East coast. I was sort of asserted

Erika Reir: 37:09

something about New York is that they're used to it. Like when New York thrives on those eccentric dressers. So they, they, like most of them want to wear black, but they pride themselves on having those like recognizable, quirky people who are wearing outlandish things. So they kind of ignore you when you're dressed weird. When I lived in New York, I used to wear like yeah. Like I would make like medieval dresses out of Calvin Klein sheets, like that would literally drag on the ground. And I would just walk around in the city like that with like bull swing coats, like the craziest outfits. And like, sometimes people will be like, are you Amish? Like, that was it. That was the only thing I would get like into people just did not care. I could wear it and me laying in New York and I was like,

Jen Tough: 37:49

whatever,

Erika Reir: 37:50

whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Tough: 37:52

And then in Seattle and Portland, especially Seattle, it's very, it's more Not conservative, but sort of stuffy.

Erika Reir: 37:59

Yeah. It's more just like, I think people like to think that they're beyond fashion up here. I think, I mean, I don't know what else. I don't know how else to look at. It's weird. I can't, I know it's gotten much better in the last few years. Like when I first got here, I felt like sometimes open hostility towards my desire to dress up. And now I feel like I was even saying like recently, since COVID, when I go out I'm getting stopped by people who are like, Oh my God, your outfit, it's so bright and colorful. It just makes me feel so much better. I think everyone. So depressed right now. So I've been like really like upping it again and trying to be like, which is why all I have left today as a black dress cause I'm home.

Jen Tough: 38:40

Great. So what are your plans moving forward? What are you thinking?

Erika Reir: 38:45

It's hard. I mean, I definitely I definitely like to do some more shows, as I mentioned earlier, like I move around a lot. I do see myself probably moving again at some point in the future and just figuring out like, does this, does what I'm doing here in Portland? Is it dependent on being here? Like is my income inextricably bound to this place now? Somehow, even though I do make sales all over the country or could I move someplace else and still have a good base or would it be kind of like starting over again? So I think like widening my net is kind of where I'm at now. Like wanting to have shows, I'm going to have shows in Seattle. I have them like further a field, but like trying to get farther, farther afield from here. So that I feel like when I am ready to move and explore a new place that I don't feel nervous about doing so is going to be a hindrance to my work anymore.

Jen Tough: 39:39

Yeah. So if you hadn't like you've done so well, earning money on Patreon and Etsy and all these different types of fairs and the flea. If you could give some advice on, you know, for up and coming artists or artists who are interested in exploring those, those routes of sales outside of a regular gallery, even though I know you do have gallery shows as well. What would you, what, what's your, what's your advice for artists?

Erika Reir: 40:07

It's just like make the work. I mean, I don't, I mean, I know it sounds so basic, but I feel like I meet so many artists who are like, Oh, I want to make a living doing this. But then like the amount of work they're making, like. If you're a dabbler, that's fine. Commit to being a dabbler, put some drawings up on Etsy every once in a while. That's what you are. But like, if you want to make a living as an artist, you need to get up every day at nine o'clock like you would do, do a job and you need to do it like a job all day. And honestly, if you treat it like a job, It still takes time, but like the income will start coming in and just kind of being shameless about it being like, I don't care what people saying. I'm going to post 20 things on Instagram today. And if it annoys people and I lose followers, so be it, those weren't the people that were going to buy my work anyway. But I think you kind of have to put blinders on and just do the work. It sounds weird. I mean, It's the thing that I see so often in people who are having a hard time making a living is like letting their fear get in the way of actually sitting down and making work and to put the work out there. I always joke that my goal is to get a rejection every single day. Because if I not getting a rejection every day, then I'm not putting myself out there enough. Like someone doesn't like my work or I'm not right for a show or a gallery. I don't take it personally. Like it doesn't mean that they don't like my work. It just means that my work is not right for that venue. Sometimes they don't like my work and they can go off themselves. I don't really care. Like my work is not for everyone. I have a very unique style and perspective. That is just not always going to sit right with people. And that's also fine with me. So I think just treat it like a job and really like, just don't care what people think. Just, I mean, just be like Nike and just do it. I don't have, I mean, that's really it. I mean, it sounds silly, but I feel like that's what it is for me. Like I work a lot and I just keep going.

Jen Tough: 42:03

Yeah. I think when, you know, if you can put blinders on and not pay attention to what the person next to you is doing, you know, like a race horse, you know, it's your own race, no one else's race, but your own. And you know, when, when you, you know, it's like what you were saying, when you were letting go of, you know, well, you know, fuck it, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this. And, you know, I don't care anymore what people think. And that, that is so much of the key that, and persistence and working hard.

Erika Reir: 42:31

I think it really is. I mean, I think I was lucky in that I learned that lesson like very young in some ways, like when I was little, my family was very poor. I kind of dressed really weird then, and never could fit in no matter. And I would try so hard and like, I remember being nine and being like, I am never going to fit in with these people. So I'm not even going to try.

Jen Tough: 42:51

So Okay, well, this has been great. I am so happy that you spent time with me and it's, it's great to know more about your process. And I think it's, it's something that has to be talked about more with artists is just how you make money, how you, you know, Because working like a full-time job that isn't creative, you know? So then you go to your studio at night and try to make something that's like, I tried that after art school and that was like, it almost killed me.

Erika Reir: 43:20

There's going to people and people are like, Hmm. And want to do craft or fairs or blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, you want to go work a nine to five for Amazon? Go for it. Like I like. How was that the more valid than me making mugs with cat faces on them and the thing isn't the same people that buy the mugs with cat faces is by paintings. Like it doesn't like every single thing I do is still promoting my art career and moving me, like keeping me doing what I want to be doing, which is not working in an office all day long.

Jen Tough: 43:50

Right. No, I mean, some people can do that. I guess I have no idea how yeah.

Erika Reir: 43:55

And I think for some people like my husband, he works an office job, and then he comes home and paints like, I'm actually, we share this little corner of our living room. So I'm actually staring at all his paintings right now. And he's, he paints a lot, you know, for him, it works for some reason, it doesn't for me. I didn't get too caught up in things. But I, I just want to be creative. Like I have so many ideas, I just want to be making stuff. And I don't understand being worried that if you make something that's slightly more crafty or handmade and not a painting of like, What the ramifications are like if I never get a New York city art show that who cares if I'm still making a living,

Jen Tough: 44:37

like if there's going to be any galleries left in New York city. Exactly. I mean, I love galleries. I don't ever want them to go anywhere, but if galleries are going to be that gatekeepy about what's art, then they can all go to hell. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if anyone can like give an answer on what art is anyway, they, you know, they're going to be, I dunno, philosopher of the century or something, because. There was no rules in any of this. It's just these sort of self-imposed rules that people give themselves, which really ultimately just holds them back.

Erika Reir: 45:14

Right. And every time someone buys into that definition of art and those, those gatekeeper perspectives, it just strengthens that whole, that whole way of it. It just keeps people from making work. Like just make the work you want to make. You know, if you're making the work you want to make, you're going to get to where you are, want to be. I really truly believe that when we make the work, we truly want to make it not the work we think people want us to make. We make our best work and people resonate with that best work.

Jen Tough: 45:42

Yep. And the people who are meant to find your work and who are going to be like anybody who might be, you know, not gatekeepy like that word,

Erika Reir: 45:55

we're living in the internet age. It's like what? I'm going to be 44 this summer. I remember gallery life before the internet. I remember trying to be, that's why when I was in my early teens, my late teens and twenties, I didn't think I could be an artist because galleries were it. And I didn't fit into that scene. Right.

Jen Tough: 46:11

Right.

Erika Reir: 46:11

And there's no coincidence that like, when I decided to pursue art, 100% was like, when I got Instagram on my phone, like, and like suddenly I could show my work to anybody in the world. And we are so lucky as artists to live in a time with the internet. Like I know it's overwhelming. I know it feels like too much. And I know it never feels like it's fast enough, but Oh my God. It's faster than anything happened in the nineties. I'll tell you

Jen Tough: 46:38

no more slides.

Erika Reir: 46:39

No. Oh my God. I know just the amount of money I saved. Not having to like physically make applications. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I not even CDs anymore. Right. When I see someplace that wants a CD, like roll my eyes and my computer doesn't even have a CD drive in it anymore. What really? Okay. It's like a sure way to know that I'm not applying to your show. If I have to send a CD, right? Like where's one where the, like a Dropbox. Or better yet when they use like Submittable, like that's the best. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Tough: 47:14

Erika, this has been great. Thank you. So yeah. Thank you. It was really nice time with me. I appreciate it.

Erika Reir: 47:23

Yeah, no, that was awesome. Great.

Jen Tough: 47:25

To get to know you better.

Erika Reir: 47:26

Yeah, definitely. Even if it's virtually, maybe I'll be in Santa Santa Fe sometime maybe i'll move their next. Yeah, definitely. That'd be awesome. All right. Well, thank you. Have a great afternoon.

Jen Tough: 47:42

See you later.