Tough on Art
Tough on Art
Gallerist Q&A 07
Gallerist Jen Tough answers questions from artists, always unscripted (and sometimes rambling and off the cuff). All questions were submitted by artists prior to the podcast.
There is some profanity in this episode.
Ask your own questions at www.JenTough.gallery
This episode's questions are:
1. Jen's pet peeves on the art world, and what should change (rant!)
2. Did shelter in place and Covid help or hurt the art world?
3. Is there any weight, authority or necessity to earning a university degree in fine art?
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(00:00):
Welcome to tough on art, the podcast for artists interested in ways to get ahead in today's art market. I'm Jen Tough owner of Jen Tough Gallery and the Artist Alliance Community. Join me for some down to earth talk about the best ways for artists to navigate this new and different landscape.
(00:23):
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of a Gallerist Q & A where artists have submitted their questions, and I'm gonna do my best to answer them. So the first one is from Jocelyn Matthewes and you can find her work@joslinmatthewes.com and it's spelled a little differently. So it's J O C E L Y N M A T H E W E S.com. And she's got a great question, which I could just go off on, which I'm going to do. And her question is, give me your pet peeves about the art world. I want to hear what you dislike and what you want to see changed. Okay. So I just jotted down a couple things right off the top of my head. The first one that I thought of was, uh, obvious rampant sexism in the art market, which has been going on forever. I remember when I was in college in the 1980s and the Gorilla Girls, you guys probably remember them, they're still around and that's sort of when they burst onto the scene. And unfortunately we're still, you know, dealing with the exact same garbage. Some things have changed a little bit, but a lot of the stuff, you know, hasn't, for instance, there's still hardly any women compared to men, um, in museum collections, it's still primarily men and my own personal experience with it. Um, not so much, you know, when I was an artist long ago, but more as a, as a gallerist is that, you know, you're just not taken as seriously as, as a woman I found. And I don't think I would have, you know, I mean, I think you get so used to it as a woman. You just, you know, when you're in a workplace with men, you know, it's very subtle. Um, it's not very blatant a lot of times there's no, you know, perhaps hopefully, you know, harassment like that sort of level, but I'm talking about this sort of quiet sort of unspoken sort of understanding that men are going to be taken more seriously.
(02:20):
And when you're a gallerist, you are trying to sell art and you have to be taken seriously because if you're not people aren't going to buy from you, especially when you're talking about things that cost thousands of dollars, right? So my first grossest, most blatant example of this was the very first art fair I did. And I hadn't done an art fair before, and I had a really small booth, but of course I had great art, I must say, which, um, caught the eye of a couple other gallerists around. And, um, we had struck up conversation, you know, on and off when you're doing an art fair, you definitely get to know the people who are also exhibiting at the fair, because there's a lot of work. You spend a lot of time together and you always want to kind of check in with each other and see how their sales are. And, you know, uh, you know, and you sort of swap stories of, you know, how good your sales were or how bad they're going. Things like that. And this particular male gallerist had come over and he asked me how my sales were going. And I said, you know, not so great. They're really, you know, I'm really not moving anything. I have lots of bites, but nothing, really, nothing really good. And he said, well, let me give you a bit of advice. And he, you know, he's a, I'm not going to say who it is, but he's, he's, he had owned an art gallery. He's owned an art gallery for quite a while and he still does. And he said to me, will you just, you know, you need to have a hot chick selling for you. That's going to make all your art sell. And I just, I like it was sort of so insulting on so many levels, but I, you know, I was kinda taken aback and it was one of those situations where you're like, wow, it was, I just really majorly insulted or, you know, what do I say to this?
(04:00):
So I was kind of tongue tied and, you know, it just sort of left it at that and didn't, you know, respond to him. And then it was one of those situations where later you just start sort of burning about it, you know, you just, you start thinking about it and you're, you know, like good God, really, you know, but the sad thing is, is that, you know, no, he's probably right. He's probably right. You go to art fairs and you can see that there's a lot of, you know, very attractive young women selling the art, um, and pushing it, not all the time, but, you know, that's definitely a common, you know, tactic and probably because it works. So, you know, what do you, what are you gonna say about that? You know, if you're trying to like, you know, I don't want to participate in that sort of in that sort of process. So I never did that, but, uh, there is, you know, there's a term gallerina, which is, you know, in the art community, um, which sort of applies to that in some ways. So that was, you know, sort of a rude awakening. And then I had some other situations where again, at art fairs, after I had done multiple, multiple fairs, and there were times when there would be a, I'll give you an example of one fair. I'm not going to say which one it is because people might be able to figure out who I'm talking about, which I don't, I don't want that to happen, but there was a very distinguished white man across the aisle from me. He had a bigger booth. He was from a very wealthy part of the country. And boy people just, you know, flock to him. It was the way it was like, I was like gutter trash. And, you know, he got a lot of attention. He, you know, he, he obviously was a very good salesman. He carried himself very well. He's very articulate, but you know, that, I think, you know, it, it's not so much systemic, uh, sexism in the, in the art market, any more that there's, you know, systemic sexism in our culture, you know, it's sort of more that, that people still take men, uh, you know, more seriously in general, white men, you know, white, straight men in general, you know, they have a real advantage to, uh, women or people of color, or, you know, a lot of just white, straight men, you know, and it's not that I don't want them around. I rather just change the culture around it. And I don't know, in all honesty, if that's possible now I work with a lot of women artists who are coming back to art perhaps after a really long time after raising kids or having to do a job that, you know, earn them more money, things like that. And, you know, I call them re-emerging artists and they're really close to my heart because I sort of feel like I'm a re-emerging gallerist in a way that, you know, if I could have opened a gallery years and years ago, maybe I would've and things would be very different. So I really relate a lot to, so many of these older women, artists that are just so often ignored. And, and this I think is all part of the, uh, of our culture in the United States in general. It's something definitely that gets under my skin. I mean, I definitely want to see it change. I hope it does for my daughter's sake, um, when she's, you know, an adult, but that's my first pet peeve.
(07:25):
My other pet peeve, um, would be talking about women who are re-emerging artists. There's a lot of fear involved for women, re-emerging artists or artists who, you know, sort of put things aside or men, you know, put things aside and then they're coming back to it. There's a lot of fear of going alone. There's a lot of fear of rejection and that's something that I would love to see changed. I would love to see artists being more empowered, having more self-confidence, uh, feeling like they don't have to have a gallery to make it just feeling good about what they're doing and sort of taking charge of their career instead of sort of waiting for a gallery or an art consultant or dealer to sort of sweep in and take care of things for them, because that just doesn't happen anymore. That doesn't, it just doesn't happen. And especially if you're, you know, an older woman that's, the chances of that happening are like next to zero. Um, really, I mean, it's really the, you know, it does happen, but so, so rarely. So that's one thing that I would really love to see change is just artists having more self-confidence and feeling more empowered in being able to really shape their career the way that they would like to, and not depending on other people to do that for them, because with social media and the internet, you really don't have to have a gallery anymore. You don't have to do that. And maybe it's because people, artists
don't want to have the responsibility. Maybe they're afraid of messing up. Maybe, you k now, they're scared of being rejected. Maybe they feel like having a gallery or a rep sort of gives them a sense of clout or something. But I can tell you many, many times where the art fairs that I've done, or even people coming into the gallery, the vast majority of people buying art, the vast, vast majority do not care if it's coming from a gallery or from an artist. As a matter of fact, they rather buy from an artist directly. They love to have that connection to have that story, to get to, you know, get to know that artist better. And then they can tell people, Oh, I, you know, I bought this from this artist from Montreal and she paints this way and dah, dah, dah, and sort of, you know, they have a story about it.
(09:48):
They have a connection to the artists more than just, you know, a gallerist. The other thing is, is that people are very intimidated by art in general, very intimidated. So if you, if you're buying from a gallerist that, you know, you, you sort of feel like, Oh God, is this person can ask me questions that I don't, that I might not be able to answer. Um, you know, maybe they're, they're gonna think I'm an idiot or they're gonna think I don't have any money or, you know, they, they think, I think buyers in general, the vast majority I'm talking like probably 98%, not only do they not know a lot about art, but they're extremely intimidated because they don't know a lot about it. And so you, you enter a gallerist into the picture and then that gets even more intimidating. So it's sort of this bizarre sort of scenario that's been set up right now that somehow having a gallery is just the most important thing yet buyers really rather buy from the artist directly because it takes away a lot of that intimidation. And it gives them a connection to the artist who made the actual piece. So I think that, you know, what I would really wish and what do I love to see change more than anything. It's just artists feeling more empowered and understanding that they really don't have to have a gallerist to do all these things. And that, you know, overcoming that fear is what would be the most important thing to accelerating their careers. So that would be another thing that I would really love to see changed.
(11:12):
The other thing I would love to see changed is that wall between artists and gallerists or gatekeepers, there's this kind of built in invisible, uh, you know, fencing or wall between the two. And I would love to see that totally taken away. I know there's a lot of gallerists who are, you know, can be intimidating. And, um, I wish that just wasn't there because artists and gallerists should be completely, you know, they should completely work together. One, you know, especially galleries, they can't exist without artists. They can't exist without art. Right. Um, but yet this sort of idea of this, you know, hoity-toity gallerist like that's that just, you know, it's permeated in our culture, you know, you can see examples on, you know, in movies and, and, and comedy and stuff like that, about how snotty and arrogant, um, and elusive, you know, gallerists are. And you know, that I would love to see disappear. And I'm, I'm really hoping that with the, um, you know, with the internet and now after COVID where everyone has become really dependent on the internet, more than ever, that this dynamic will really change because that dynamic, the dynamic is. It really is artists shouldn't have to feel like, um, they're, you know, at the mercy of gallerists, because in reality they really aren't. And in reality, you know, I was always, I, as I was saying before, artists really have so much more power than they think, and they need to get over this idea that they don't.
(12:58):
And hopefully, you know, with the internet, with the ability to sell directly to customers and buyers and collectors that artists in time won't feel that sort of at the mercy of gallerists, they'll never be able to sell anything if they don't, you know, have a gallery. So they're never going to be able to do this. They're
never going to be able to climb the ladder. And all of that is totally not true. So hopefully in time, that's something else, something else that's going to change. Okay. So going further on the idea that galleries are there to rescue you. This is a huge thing and very, very common. And I know that the idea is some, an artists had, had told me that it's sort of like making the team when you get a gallery. Um, and it, and that might be true, but to who, who thinks that, is it other artists or is it the public? Because usually that kind of thing, um, it's only other artists who would say, Oh, you know, this person got signed at so-and- so and you know, this person's going to this gallery, or now they've got five different galleries. It's usually only other artists that do that. It's not the people who are buying art. Now I understand that, you know, as you're growing your career, that it's important to get more and more galleries and representation that, you know, in multiple States and things like that. And that's all part of growing your career. And I understand I'm not like lessening the power of that, but there's also a lot of power in artists, you know, going out and doing things on their own. There's no shame in that. And I think right now there's kind of this sort of dark cloud around that. Like, you sort of made it if you, if you're with a gallery or you've made it, if you have multiple galleries and other States, and there is, you know, there are some clout and cache to that, but I just don't think it's that big of a deal. I think artists put way more importance on that than anybody else does. And I've seen this over and over again at art fairs where you have, uh, galleries and then you have artists right next to them, for instance, and it doesn't make a scrap of difference to the people buying the art. That's a direct comparison right there. I mean, I've seen it time and time and time. Again, people love buying art from artists. So the idea that a gallery is somehow rescuing you and somehow makes you feel, you know, makes you more important, makes elevates your career. You know, I think the thing that's important to consider is, you know, elevates it to whom, you know, you're getting a stamp of approval from, from somebody who knows about art. And, and I understand the importance of that, but I think that there's just, it's just become really skewed.
(15:39):
And I think also after COVID, when there's less and less galleries, that artists need to really embrace not sort of like be grudgingly sort of, you know, move forward without so many galleries around or without as many of those types of opportunities, but to just sort of embrace the idea of like, okay, like, let's just do this, let's do it. I'm going to go out on my own. I'm going to show at art fairs and, and, you know, we'll see what happens because people want to buy from the artists. They want to know you, they want to learn more about you. They want to share your story. Like I mentioned before, it's, it's a very, it's a very powerful thing. And I hope one of the things that does change in the art world is that artists, do you feel more empowered and more confident and more secure in just moving forward without a gallery? Because sometimes I think as well that artists may seek out a gallery because it sort of takes them off the hook of doing things on their own. And I'm not saying that's true for all artists, but there's definitely, you know, this sort of idea of like, Oh, well, if I have a gallery, then I don't have to do all this yucky stuff. And that's totally not true anymore. Even if you were to get signed for representation with a gallery, you still would have to do just as much promotion, personal management, all that kind of thing that you were doing before. So it really doesn't make that much of a difference at all. If you get signed as in regard to, in regard to that. But the other thing that's sort of interesting about it is that, you know, the idea of being off the hook, like if you, you know, if you get signed by a gallery, then anything that goes wrong in your career, let's say the sales are really bad when you're with a gallery or you don't feel like you're making any movement, you don't feel like you're, you know, you're getting your name out there more, even though you do have a gallery. If you have a gallery, you don't have to blame yourself. The artist doesn't have to blame themselves, right? They can just, Oh, the gallery, wasn't good at sales, that that gallery was terrible at selling or something like that. And it really, you know, takes away any of that responsibility or mistakes, but mostly responsibility off of, you know, the artist shoulders. They can just
blame the gallery and I've seen that happen over and over. I've had that happen to me. And it's terrible. It's an awful feeling when you feel like you've done all you can for an artist and, you know, really put a lot of time, sweat, money into their career. And they get really upset. Maybe their sales weren't as good as, you know, they had hoped. And, um, you know, and you get blamed for this sort of, you know, a trajectory that they think isn't good enough and that's a horrible feeling, but I think, you know, for a gallerist, but I think that artists need to take that responsibility, the responsibility on to themselves and take it on and realize that when you are with a gallery, it's a joint venture, no matter what, there is no off the hook, there's no, you know, all the responsibility doesn't fall on the gallery.
(18:36):
They're not gods, you know, artists need to take that on themselves. And maybe, I mean, this is something that artists need to think about each, each person individually, maybe there is like sort of an entanglement between wanting a gallery and, and not really wanting some of the responsibility of the trajectory of their career. Maybe there's that for some people. So I think it's just really important to, uh, look at the idea of really, why do you want a gallery? Because frankly like 95% of the people, they don't know the difference between galleries. They don't know which ones are good, which ones are bad. Um, you know, that's all for artists. And for the most part, you're not selling to artists. You're not going to be advancing your career through other artists. So definitely something to think about and galleries, aren't there to rescue you. It's not all their responsibility for your career and you, you know, you might get a stamp of approval, but who does that really mean anything to other than maybe other artists and other galleries? So the idea of rescuing, um, is something that I definitely wish would change in the art world.
(19:54):
The other thing that I think would be really important or I'd love to see is emerging artists lowering their prices. I'm talking about artists that don't have gallery representation yet who are just, you know, just starting out. Maybe they don't have a lot of shows under their belt. Maybe just a couple. I see prices on art for artists that I've never heard of that are ridiculous, so expensive. And all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot because in order for somebody to pay the kind of prices, a lot of times artists are asking for, you know, emerging artists. They have to have a really good reputation in order to claim those kinds of prices. I am totally of the mindset that artists should sell their work. If they're emerging the lowest possible price, because it's going to get their work out into the, it's going to get your name out into the world. It's going to get more people buying things from you. I mean, think about it this way. If you were going to be buying something, that's a three to $5,000, right? Anything let's just, you know, it could be anything. Are you going to buy it from somebody you don't know? And you don't know anything about the history of the whatever you're buying and you know, nothing about the seller, you know, nothing, you know, chances are, you are not going to be purchasing something for that kind of money. So asking three to five thousand six thousand seven thousand, I'm you seen these prices on these paintings, it's just ridiculous. Nobody's going to buy that. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You're going to have to lower your prices as low as you can go.
(21:30):
It doesn't never ever, you know, th the thing about art in this, where there's so much money laundering in the art world and stuff, it's basically, we all know this. You can put any price tag you want on that art, right? But it doesn't mean it's really worth that. You know, it, it doesn't mean that. And as an emerging artist, the most important thing that you can do is get your name and your art out into the world. As many, in as many places as you can for a price that doesn't make it seem like it's from a garage sale, but also, you know, doesn't, you know, dissuade people from purchasing it. I have found that things priced
under $700 for artists who don't know, you know, whose name is not well known, who don't have a track history who don't have a ton of exhibition history who aren't represented by a gallery, that those will move. Those will, those will move. If it's priced under 500, even better, if it's priced around $250, way better as the world opens up from COVID. I think art fairs are going to become really popular, really popular again. And I think that a lot of art fairs I've mentioned this before are going to be taking on more and more artists or collectives of artists instead of galleries, because galleries are closing down left and right. They were having a hard time paying for art fair fees before COVID now, after COVID, it's going to become kind of ridiculous. So I think art fairs are going to be opening up their, their booth rentals to artists. They're going to be much more comfortable with doing that. And artists are going to have more ability to sell at art fairs and exhibit at art fairs. And I have found at art fairs that if people have, if they can, you know, there's a lot of people who go, who are like, you know, maybe they're interested in finding a piece. That's going to go in the, you know, in their hallway, in their bedroom, et cetera, they're looking for a particular kind of piece, or they want to have something that they can just sort of dash off with. Right. And that's something that's like in the $250 range, there was a guy who sold ceramic donuts and I'm blanking on his name. I feel really bad, but he sold these really cool ceramic donuts. And they were life-size and he hung them in his booth floor to ceiling almost, um, all the way around his booth. And they sold like crazy. They sold like crazy. So what happened with, you know, what happens with that artist, somebody who does something like that, who is selling tiny works, let's say, or multiples, you know, and with a fantastic installation and an art fair, not only are they getting their name out because every single person who's purchased that original piece of art, they know that artist's name, they're probably going to buy from them.
(24:02):
Again. They have a conversation about that art when people come to their house, um, and they're there, they have that sort of souvenir from that experience, they have a story about it. They met the artists, they can talk about the work. They might start a collection of the work, which is what happened with this artist. People started collecting all the donuts, buying all these different kinds of ceramic donuts from this guy. Fantastic. So not only did he make a ton of money from what I understand, but he also got his name out to like hundreds, if not thousands of people, that's amazing. That is amazing. So when you have, you know, one huge gigantic painting and you're selling it, you know, like say it's 40 by 40, and you're selling it for $6,000 and you really don't have a track history of selling that that's a really, really hard sell. If you do manage to sell it, you've only have one person who knows your name and, you know, and knows your work and understands your work. So when you're first emerging onto the scene, I highly recommend smaller works very, you know, affordably priced, something that you know, that you would pay. If you saw something that you really loved at an art fair, and you would, you would buy it. Um, something that doesn't take a ton of thought, you know, that's where you want to go. That's what you want to do. That's going to get your name out there. It's going to get your work out into the world. And it's a fantastic way just to get you just to get yourself known, because that's how you're going to find the collectors. And then you can always raise your prices down the line. You always have the ability to do that. You, you know, you, you don't want to have to go back down in price if things aren't moving, but I would recommend that actually, if, if things aren't moving at all, but if you have all these smaller price works and they're moving out into the world, I mean, it's almost, they're like little seeds, right? And people are gonna learn your name. They're gonna, they're gonna know what you do. And they're more likely, far more likely to buy that more expensive piece down the road, because the most important thing is just getting your name and your work out into the world in the beginning. So a very appealing price point if your name isn't well-known, which is most emerging artists, obviously, you know, make it as affordable as possible value and cost of the art never go hand in hand, right? You can see auctions of
art and they they're selling for millions of dollars. And it's, it's garbage. It's total garbage. I mean, we all know that we've all seen it before. So the, the price tag on a piece of art, there's so many moving parts to that, but there's a sort of idea, I think with emerging artists that, Oh, if I price it at like three or $5,000, that makes me more valuable. It makes me a more important artist. And really it doesn't, it makes you not a good sales person and you're going to have to be a good business person to survive. So that's my recommendation.
(26:55):
This next question comes from Elvira Dayel, You can find her work at Elvira Dayel.art. That's spelled E L V I R A D A Y E l.art, not.com. She asked, do you feel like shelter in place orders helped or hurt the art world? I think in general, it is almost completely decimated. It, at least as far as, you know, galleries and museums, museums, especially they've been hit extremely hard. I know here in Santa Fe, they haven't been open for, geez. I think it's been almost a year. And as far as galleries go, my gallery is closed. So I have been hit so hard. I can't even, I don't even have words for it. I don't really know any galleries who are booming, other galleries that I know and talk to. I feel like they're giving me a straight answer so that it's definitely hurt them, uh, dramatically. I think galleries who've been in business for a long time, or if they're in a touristy, very touristy area, I think they're doing okay. Even though I think travel has dropped obviously a ton, but there's still a lot of people driving in places. So if you had a gallery in a more touristy town, you're probably doing somewhat okay. If you can get that drive in traffic, it definitely has been hit. I don't, I don't know of anyone who's saying, Oh yeah. Things have been, things are better now with the, with the pandemic. I think, I think it's, it's, it's gone. Um, it's been really, really hard for people. I know it's been really, really hard for myself. I think it's been really hard for everybody. And yeah, you mentioned that you understand this is a complex multi-layer discussion and it certainly is. I think that the main thing that's going to happen is that artists are going to be taking a lot of the responsibility for sales and promotion moving forward on themselves. And, you know, hopefully artists will embrace that more and it can be really an amazing thing if artists can sell their work and get, you know, a hundred percent, you know, joined together with, uh, you know, with other artists form a collective and do pop-up shows or art fairs, which I keep sort of rattling on and on about, which I think are going to do really great once the world opens up, because people are going to want to travel.
(29:12):
People are going to want around, be around other people. And hopefully, you know, this fall or this winter or 2021 things will be, you know, a lot better and improve how many galleries are going to be able to survive this, you know, brick and mortar galleries. I don't know. Um, I've heard about several galleries have been around for a long time, like Metro Pictures in New York. I read just yesterday is closing and they've been open for 40 years and they cited the pandemic, you know, the closures and also the changing art world, the changing market as the reasons for closing. So it's, it's, it's, it's huge. I think that we're still gonna see, you know, some galleries that have sort of limped along and then possibly closing their doors down the line. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, if it's a commercial gallery, you know, it's a business. And if the business model isn't, you know, profitable and you're sort of spending more money, you know, you're not earning any money and you're in the red all the time, how long galleries can, you know, keep doing that, you know, obviously is dependent on a ton of factors there or how long somebody would want to be supporting a business. You know, if you own the business and not just closed down at which point, at what point is it best to just cut your losses? So I think, you know, we're just sort of starting to see the closures. I think there's going to be more closures throughout the next year, moving forward, which is really sad. I know a lot of museums are really struggling there they've, you know, in less they're going be more, you know, money from donors and
sponsors and things like that. Um, because most museums are nonprofit. So they're able to get donations, whereas commercial galleries, don't, it's, it's going to be, it's going to be sad. I think there's going to be a major shift with things in the art world and some good, some bad like anything else. But for the most part, I think that it was kind of the nail in the coffin for commercial galleries because commercial galleries were really struggling even before the pandemic. And I think for a lot of them, it's going to be the final straw or the final nail.
(31:24):
This next question is from Katie. Hi Katie. I know Katie from Northern California. She is a fantastic artist. I love her work and you can find her work@katiekuhn.com and that's spelled K A T Y K U H N. And her question is there are so many incredible art teachers in the universe today. Anyone can enroll and commit themselves to making art, especially with so many classes are offered online. Is there any weight, authority or necessity to earning a university degree in fine art? Oh my God, I love this question. Okay. I love this question so much because this is something that has been going through my mind the last couple of years. And I totally agree with you, Katie. There's so many amazing teachers and artists who are teaching now, they, you know, you really do wonder, like, what is the point of this, you know, $60,000 a year, art school degree, my God, you know, that's so much money by the time you're done. And God forbid, people are taking out loans to get that BFA or MFA here. Here's sort of my take on it. I mean, I, I, at first, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, kind of, yeah. Why bother? Why get a BFA? Why get an MFA? But I think there's still, especially culturally, I think there's a lot of weight with a BFA and an MFA depends, you know, and also depending on the school. So there's that. And so I think some people would definitely think that it's really important. My personal take on it is that it's not that important if people have, you know, basically the most important thing is your portfolio. And if you have an amazing portfolio and you're not alone, Dick, you're going to, you know, you're going to do okay, you're gonna, you're gonna do fine. All right. So it's like, you know, if you're a Dick and you you're, you're up against somebody who has an MFA, let's say, um, or you have an MFA and you're a Dick, then no, one's going to take you on that's that's, that's not, um, as far as the gallery representation that that never works.
(33:25):
So if you're a jerk and you have an, you know, an MFA, forget it, but if you're nice and you've done a bunch of workshops and you have an amazing portfolio, then heck yes. You know, to me, it doesn't matter at all. There's definitely quite a few galleries when you're talking about representation, who would say, uh, no, I only, you know, we only show MFA, you know, artists and the reason for that is, and I understand it's like, you know, you're getting tons of intensive education and focus on your work. You know, when you're talking about an MFA that you really it's, it's almost impossible to do that if you're just working on your own in your studio. So it's almost like putting your career in fast forward, because you're able to focus on your work at such an intense level for two solid years, like, you know, eight, 10, 12 hours a day for those two years. And really, really just focused solely on that. So there is that usually people who have an MFA can, can talk, uh, freely about their work there. They, they know what direction they're going. They're know, they know why they're making what they, what they make. But for, you know, for me personally, if, if somebody has, you know, some, uh, you know, advanced, uh, education, you know, past high school in the arts, they don't even necessarily have to have a BFA if they've really, if I get, if their portfolio, you know, kicks ass, if their portfolio is great. And to me, it doesn't matter at all. And one of the things that's really interesting is that not only are people, I think, you know, younger people starting to look at, um, art school in sort of a more negative light. Like what's the point there's so much money, you know, that has to go into that, especially if it's like a, you know, a private school, but what, what is the point when you can take all these amazing classes? You know, so
many, one of my artists that, who I represent shows or works at a college and what's happening now more than, you know, when I was in college, just that these professors are just adjunct professors. So they, I have no, uh, you know, health insurance, they don't have stability and security. They're certainly not going to be getting tenure. You know, it's, it's a really world now that colleges and universities are just hiring, uh, you know, professionals and, you know, really in my opinion, really taking advantage of them, you know, they're not offering them any kind of, uh, you know, security and benefits. So almost the better option is for people to take on the teaching themselves, which is what I think you're seeing this huge growth in art workshops and mentoring and things like that from artists who, uh, you know, easily could be teaching at a college, but, you know, they're saying, Hey, why, why do this, why bother doing this?
(36:16):
So I'm really curious to see what happens in the next five to 10 years as economically. Um, you know, at least here in the United States where things are going to be a little wobbly from COVID where, you know, if people are going to be spending that money on art schools, what's, what's going to happen with art schools. There was already one, you know, the closed down in San Francisco, you know, what's going to be happening with this. Are people going to be spending that kind of money on art school? It's and I, you know, I'm really not so sure about the value anymore. Uh, and the other thing is too, is that, you know, like what I was just talking about before is that there's going to be a huge movement. And, and I, you know, embrace that. I think it would be fantastic if artists really start doing more things on their own and don't feel, uh, like they're wedded to the gallery system because they're not, I think there's going to be a lot more, um, artists, you know, selling on their own and really, you know, doing some interesting things and selling art in different ways. I mean, you know, really who cares if, you know, when you're talking about that, you know, who cares, what a gallerist thinks, right? That's, um, you know, as far as your degree or your, you know, what you've done educationally in the past, if you're selling a ton of work and making a great living and, you know, selling your art, I mean, we've all seen these artists on Instagram, right. And I'm not super crazy about their art. I mean, frankly, you know, I, I think it's pretty bad and, you know, they don't have any, you know, advanced degrees in, in art. Didn't go to art school and they're making, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I mean, I think that's kind of almost every artist's dream. So I don't know. I don't really, I love to see, I'd love to see how this is going to unfold over the next decade, but I think that ultimately it all boils down to your portfolio. And, you know, if you're a kind person with a somewhat of a business sense, I think any artist would do great. So hope that helps.
(38:20):
Thank you so much for listening and supporting this podcast. Your support means everything. If you'd like to learn more about the Artists Alliance Community, send me a question or learn about other events or projects coming up, please visit my website at www.Jentough.gallery. See you next time.