Babbling About: When Self-Awareness Is Not Enough (Part II)

#224: You can explain your attachment style perfectly and still blow up the same relationship in the exact same way. That gap between insight and change is where we go next.

We pick up our part two conversation on self-awareness and get honest about the uncomfortable truth: understanding your patterns does not mean you have healed them. We talk about why awareness without nervous system work can change almost nothing, how “healing” can quietly turn into avoidance, and why real progress often starts with plain acceptance and a willingness to feel what you would rather label. If you have ever thought, “I know why I do this, so why do I still do it,” you will feel seen.

We also dig into how different people act like mirrors, pulling out different triggers and revealing new layers even after you have done therapy, coaching, or deep personal development. Then we zoom out to the culture piece: social media, performative vulnerability, weaponized therapy language, and the ego identity of being “the self-aware one.” We share how to tell the difference between humble self-worth and entitlement, and why peace can feel boring before it feels safe if your body is used to chaos.

If you want healing that is embodied, practical, and rooted in emotional regulation rather than performance, listen through and reflect with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves psychology content, and leave a review with the biggest pattern you are ready to change.

Transcript

Self-Awareness Is Not Healing

Johnna 0:00

What is up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense podcast. And of course, Me New is here for part two of our episode that continued from last week. In part one, we talked about self-awareness, emotional patterns, trauma, attachment styles, and how much psychology language has become part of our everyday life. But today we wanted to talk about the part people rarely discuss. And that's just because you understand yourself doesn't mean you've healed. There are a lot of people who can explain every behavior, every trigger, every trauma response, and still they feel emotionally stuck. So in today's episode, we are talking about the uncomfortable side of healing, how awareness without nervous system work changes nothing, how healing can secretly become avoidance, how some people become attached to being the self-aware one, and how social media has made vulnerability and healing performative. We want to talk about why true healing is probably such simpler and quieter than we've made it. Because maybe healing isn't about being perfect. Maybe it's finally feeling safe enough to actually just live your life. So if you want to hear more about this, then join us for part two.

Why Insight Still Feels Stuck

Johnna 1:29

All right, guys, we are back with part two, me and Minion here, and we just wanted to continue the conversation about self-awareness. Um, and maybe if it's a little too much of that, because as we talked about in the first, we kind of went through a lot in the first one, but we wanted to kind of tie it all into a pretty little bow in this one where we're talking about, you know, what happens after you become self-aware, or why do you so many people intellectually understand themselves but still repeat the same emotional patterns? Other things like can awareness become another form of control? Is inside actually overrated without embodiment and action? Because the biggest thing here that we understand, and well, we're trying to understand is because understanding yourself is one thing, but feeling safe enough to actually change is something completely different. So we're kind of gonna jump in and get started. And I know that mean you really wanted to talk about how awareness with the without nervous system work changes nothing because obviously that's what she does for a living. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. She helps people with nervous system work. Um, I've worked with her and she's amazing. So, Mew, when we start talking about like what we were talking about last week, and if you haven't listened to last week's episode, this one may or may not make sense because it's got a lot of information in the first one. So definitely recommend listening to that and then jumping back over to this one. But if we are now, because we talked about it all in the first one, how self-aware and intellectual and hyper focused that we can all become, because we live in this culture where you know we can get all on social media and we can hear, you know, every buzzword narcissist, um, secure attachment, anxiety, anxious attachment, all those things. And so once we become aware of it, then what do we

Acceptance Before Any Real Change

Johnna 3:07

do?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

I mean, first you gotta accept that it's gonna be extremely uncomfortable, right? So the first question I want to ask you is are you willing to accept that it's extremely uncomfortable? Because then if you don't accept it, then you're going to go again into intellectualizing it and reading about it and reading about it and reading about it. So the first thing is gonna be that it actually sucks when you find out, oh shit, I am anxiously attached. Oh crap, I do have anxiety, I am an anxious person, or I am detached, whatever you discover about yourself, right? Understand that once you identify that, there will be some hard emotions that come with it. And when I say hard emotions, it's gonna be massive discomfort and probably shame because you didn't know about it better, right? So once you confront the feelings and once you confront the discomfort, and it'll take a while to do this, right? For some people, it can take weeks of acceptance and reading to be like, okay, this is the pattern that I see in my life and all my relationships, and this is what's happening. So to answer the question, this is long story long, is once you find out what is it that you identify with, the second step is actually acceptance. It is not healing, it is not jumping in to read 200 books, it is understanding that okay, crap, I'm not perfect. Nobody said I have to be perfect, nobody's perfect. I understand that I have these flaws or these things that I want to work on. Can I find a way to accept this, even though this is massively uncomfortable?

Johnna 4:44

Uh yes, I agree with all of that. And then you said something before we jumped on the podcast that really kind of like was like, oh wow, that's a good saying, or I'm not gonna quote it exactly. But you were talking about how we can we can start working on it or we can become not sorry, sorry, let me back that up. You were talking about how we can recognize it and we can become aware, but if we don't do this nervous system work, then we think, oh, well, now I'm aware, so it's not gonna ever come back up in my life

New Relationships Reveal New Wounds

Johnna 5:12

again.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Oh yeah, that's a that's a beautiful mistake that we all make, right? And it happens in relationships mostly, and I've seen this. It's when they date somebody and a lot of issues come up and they break up and they're sitting and asking, damn, what did I learn from this partner? What did this relationship teach me? And then they go to therapy, go to coaching, learn all these things, rediscover all these things about their triggers and themselves, and then they start dating someone else, and it's a different set of issues. Okay, so when we are saying, hey guys, you might notice that you give yourself a diagnosis when something comes up, and then you start healing that, then something else can come up in a different relationship. For example, I know this woman in her 50s, and you know, she's in the dating pool, and she noticed that when she was dating this man that she was with for three years, she was very securely attached, and the man was very anxiously attached. And then she's now dating someone else, and she's noticing that she's a little bit leaning on the anxious side because the man is actually avoidant. So automatically that makes her anxious. So she'd be like, Oh crap, I didn't know that you know this is coming up for me. She would probably label herself as secure. And the reason I bring this up, guys, is because everybody that comes into your life, whether it's a friend, whether it's a relationship, whether it's a partner, they bring their set of mirrors into the relationship, which reflects parts of your insecurities, which reflects parts that you need to heal. So just because you heal in one profound way with one person, and then a friend brings up another reflection, you're like, oh, I didn't expect all this. I thought I was done with this. No, no, no. It's just with every level demands a deeper healing and a different version of you to show up and heal. So again, just because you're aware, just because you worked on it with one relationship or one dynamic doesn't mean that it's not going to be a different dynamic with another person.

Johnna 7:14

Right. And I know when I worked with you, I said this all the time and I still say it. I honestly feel like becoming aware makes it doubly worse for me because it's like now I'm aware of what I'm doing in the moment and I still haven't done enough work to stop it or change it. So then I'm like, I'm aware I'm doing it. So now I'm like, now I'm doing it and I'm aware of it. So that makes it worse because I would rather just be oblivious and not aware. Like, what are you talking about? I don't do that. You does that make sense in a way?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

It kind of does. And and you know, I think it's a process, right? And it's really interesting you say that because when you're not aware, there are still different sets of problems that you have to encounter. And even you are aware, there is again, this is actually we're speaking the same language, but you know, which is parallel, and now you are aware, and there is a different level of healing that it demands, right? So, why we're saying this, guys, is that just because you're aware doesn't mean, oh my god, I've healed now, now I know all this, and and you know, I can just bypass this, I can just go straight through this, and you know, everything will be fine. It's not gonna be like that, right?

When The Nervous System Overrides Logic

Johnna 8:20

And then why is it that logic often is lost, or we can lose logic against our nervous system conditioning?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Because the nervous system always takes over. And a classic example of logic versus nervous system taking over is let's say you run into somebody on the street, right? Logically, you have absolutely no facts telling you that they're good or bad or how their energy is, but your body starts picking up on something. Sometimes when you talk to somebody, your body is like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know why my body is saying no, but I'm gonna go against it and still become friends with this person. And then a few months later, you find out, oh, oopsies, my body was right, my nervous system was trying to warn me. And that doesn't mean that they're bad, it's just that they triggered something in your nervous system that you weren't prepared to deal with, right? Right. And so I will always say, with every situation in my life, with every business partnership that I've gone into, with every client that I've worked with, and every friendship that I still have, I feel like every time I go against my nervous system and go into logic, then that basically just bites me back. No, I agree.

Johnna 9:30

And I know because we talk like kind of similar, not really like a woman's intuition. Like, you know, we often, often, often ignore it. And we'll be like, you know, and like and then a lot of people like watching movies and stuff, you see, like, oh, I have butterflies, and uh and actually like working with like life coaches and people who do energy work, like you, or even hearing it now on social media, even though we're talking about awareness, is butterflies aren't always a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, it's actually a stress response, advice just just FYI, it's not a good thing. So, like I said, it can it can really show up in so many ways, and um everybody can bring up a mirror that you haven't worked with before, and and you're not you're gonna be challenged in different situations to answer your question. So the nervous system is always going to take over when it comes to logic. Logic is simply just for the ego, right?

Johnna 10:29

Do you sorry, one more question, and then I'm glad you said ego because I have a bunch of questions for that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, what have you noticed, like a nervous system pattern, or do you notice that people have nervous system patterns that they mistake for personality traits because they feel like they're so self-aware? Like, for example, you know, is it a nervous pattern or is it truly anxious attachment? And they just mistake it.

Repeating Patterns And The Broken Picker

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I think you have to look at patterns in your life, right? And when you look at patterns, um, patterns repeat themselves until you have learned the lesson. So if very similar type of people are coming into your life, if you're attracting similar type of partners, if you're attracting similar types of friends, then you already know that it is something that you need to fix, you need to alter, right? It's there's something, something going on with your picker.

Johnna 11:25

When you have a common theme, keep coming into the case.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Exactly, you have a common theme. So I wouldn't say that that's intuition. I would say that there's something going on in your nervous system that's not completely healed, or there's some lesson that is not fully understood by your body. So it feels the need to continually repeat certain cycles so that it's like, do you get it now? Do you get it? Um, I'm gonna show you the same thing 10 different times and 10 different people for you to understand the lesson.

Johnna 11:54

Okay, so that makes a lot of sense. But how do you know if it's that situation versus you're well, I guess it's the same thing when I think about the question. So, like when I'm working with you about my, let's say it's anxiety. If I'm working with you about anxiety, and how do I know that that's my nervous system coming up saying you're picking these people? Because you actually, here's a better example. If I'm picking um an emotionally avoidant partner, and I keep doing that, well, obviously, like doing some work, I know where that's coming from in my childhood because you know I was emotionally abandoned from my parents, so I continue to do that. How do you know it's your nervous system saying, is this the same lesson coming up and repeating, or how do you know it's not just something that you're comfortable with because it's comfortable because that's all you know? Or is it both?

SPEAKER_00 12:44

It's both. You just answered your question. It's absolutely both. You're absolutely repeating that because even if it's chaos and you recognize that it's chaos, it's still comfort because that's what you've always done. Okay, right? And your nervous system is showing you hey, you need to learn from this. If you want to attract something new, you gotta you gotta be massively uncomfortable with this. The problem is you're comfortable with this, right? You gotta be massively uncomfortable, disgusted, angry, annoyed, pissed off, frustrated. Like you have to reach a level of rock bottom and say, I deserve better. I want something else, and I don't want this. And even if that's scaring me to death, I'm ready to experience contrast. I'm ready to experience something different because I want that.

Johnna 13:29

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But with what you're just example that you just said, how do you say, how do you stay in that power of I want this and I deserve that versus it becoming an ego-driven thing? Like I just, you know what I'm saying? Like you could say the same sentence, like, I deserve this, I want this, and you can also say, I deserve this, I want that, but it once ego, one's your nervous system telling you to change. How do you differentiate those types of things?

Humble Desire Versus Ego Entitlement

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I think ego is more entitlement. Nervous system is, I feel like ego is more entitlement, nervous system work is more humble.

Johnna 14:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

You literally can feel the difference when you're exhausted and done, and you say, I deserve this, versus no, no, no, I'm a badass bitch and I deserve it.

Johnna 14:17

That's why when I like changed my tone when I said it, I said you can say the same sentence like, hey, I deserve this versus hey, I deserve this.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And I have actually noticed this in certain people around me when they they they don't say it from a place of humility, saying, Oh my god, you know, I'm exhausted. This has been happening. I finally feel like I've learned this and I think I deserve something else, versus I'm a good person, everything good should happen to me. Fuck this, I deserve better. Like I'm a badass, like you know, you you sense the undertone on where that's coming from.

Johnna 14:48

Yeah. Would you say that it could be described maybe like one is more self-awareness versus self-importance? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

That's actually very accurate, very accurate, yeah.

Johnna 15:02

And then how can self-awareness in itself like become an ego identity? Just like we talked about earlier, like if you have an anxious attachment or secure attachment, but now you have this ego identity.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Can being too self-aware make you egotistical?

Healing As An Ego Identity

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Let's talk about ego identities, right? I mean, back in the day, and I'm talking during our parents' generation, the ego identity that people had is okay, I make this much money, so I'm valuable and I'm worthy, right? And I feel like with every uh generation or every decade or decades, there's different ego identities that take over societal lands, right? And so I think we're in this era where oh, I'm doing all the healing and oh, I'm going to therapy and I'm I'm I have a life coach and I'm working on my energy and my chakras, so I must be evolved, you know? Yeah. And so this is a very big rabbit hole you don't want to go into. And whoever is listening to you, I love you. Uh, thank you for being here and listening to us. But I want to humble you in the second that just because you're doing the work or just because you're spiritual, it doesn't make you better. Right. It doesn't make me better just because I'm a life coach and I've done this for 11 years doesn't mean I'm better than anyone. It doesn't make anybody better. So we always have to catch ourselves in what uh uh identities we're attaching to egos. And what's happening now is people are like saging themselves and posting on Instagram, and they're like, Oh, I'm meditating, I'm above all this bullshit, and da da da no, you guys, and that that doesn't mean that you're better than an average person that doesn't meditate, right?

Johnna 16:45

And that in itself, do you feel can like start like therapy language or stuff like that, like you know, become become a little bit of weaponizing towards people or a little bit or a little bit of manipulation?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

It can be, it can literally be like, Hey, I went to the therapist last week, and this is what my therapist said. So I'm gonna tell you what my therapist said, and I know better than you because I went to the therapist. You know, you see what I'm trying to say. Instead, instead, the way they should approach is saying, Hey, I'm really hurt about this. This really bothered me. Can we sit down and talk about this? Can we just talk about two adults talk about what's arising, what's coming up? I'll talk first and then I'll hold the space for you. And I would love it if you don't interrupt me. And then when you're talking, I will not interrupt you. I want both of us to feel seen and heard. You see how that is versus using therapy and self-work to weaponize things that's happening. And I think that is happening, which makes me sad.

Johnna 17:43

Well, and I and I've noticed, like, you know, when some people are getting their therapy language or their information just from social media and not doing the work themselves, you can tell because people will diagnose everyone else and say, You're doing this because I saw it on a TikTok or you're doing that, but then they struggle to look at themselves and say, Oh, I actually do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, I actually know or actually knew this person a long, long time ago. And they would go to workout classes, they would go to breath work sessions, they would do the nervous system work, they had a therapist, they like they had every person and their mother you can think of helping them in something, but they have not spent even a single moment with themselves facing their own inner demons. So you can look at someone and be like, damn, they really have their life together. Look at them having all these things, but then it's an illusion, it's an illusion until you really interact with them and go into their inner world and you've had a conflict with them. I say this over and over you guys over and over again. It's like when you have a conflict with someone, you know if they're using the mask of self-awareness or if they're actually really self-aware and they've done the work. Because when you don't agree on something and you disagree for once with your friend or your partner, that is when you actually see the real them.

Johnna 19:13

Yeah. And when you say the mask of self-awareness, that's really more the ego that you're talking about, right? Like absolutely. It's that ego that's like, oh, I think I'm self-aware, but I'm not really self-aware because I just want you to think I'm self-aware.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I want you to think I'm self-aware so that you pay attention to me so that you validate me that I'm right in my Gululu.

Johnna 19:34

So, how would someone, if they're not trying to stay in the ego mind, they're really trying, but they're still becoming so self-aware from social media, how could they stay humble while still growing emotionally and not leaning towards that ego side?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I think that you can learn, and again, I'm so grateful, right? And we talked about this in the last episode. We've come from our we've seen our parents' generation where therapy was frowned upon. Doing any kind of self self-work means something is really wrong with you. We've seen how harsh it has been for that generation, and here we are proudly talking about it. So I really want to just take a moment and acknowledge that I am really happy, and we are really happy that people are learning so much from what's out there on the internet. However, you can always watch the thing, watch the YouTube video. You can always learn. But I think where you want to check your ego, you know, somewhere, is you gotta really ask yourself and keep asking yourself certain questions as to where am I still massively uncomfortable in my life?

Johnna 20:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Is it in my work? Is it a coworker that really annoys me? Because remember, guys, as long as you have triggers, you are not healed. Right. I don't care how much you consume, I don't care what you read, I don't care who's your teacher or who's your coach. If you're actively getting triggered all the time, it is an invitation that something is coming up for you. Yeah. That you haven't healed. So it I don't care whether you know all the fancy terms, it doesn't matter to me how many therapists you see.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Right?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

So if you have a lot of anxiety, you have a lot of things showing up for you continually, my friend, you have work to do.

Johnna 21:22

I agree. And I think that's important because we get in this world of like healing. Like we're we're healing, we're healed, we're healed. And like you said, we're still triggered. But that that identity or ego of I'm I'm working on it, I'm healing is actually a hiding place to stay because they're avoiding, you know, because that's that kind of goes into our next position where endless healing can become avoidance ultimately.

When Healing Becomes Avoidance

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Oh, 1000%. And this again goes to the person that I used to know where they were doing everything, but they were actually avoiding the inner demon. Yeah, they were actually avoiding. Avoiding sitting with the discomfort and doing the deep work. They didn't want to do that. They wanted the label that I am healing. I have all these tools. I'm I love, I believe in healing. You know, they wanted the title. So you also want to be careful. And where I would watch if I were listening to this podcast in an audience perspective is are you doing too much to actually numb the pain? Yeah, I agree. You know, are you are you going to the therapist maybe two times a week instead of just once a week? Right? Are you hiring multiple people to fix the issue so that you don't want to be alone with yourself? Right? Are you calling your friends constantly to avoid actually having a good cry?

Johnna 22:42

Yeah. Because I think I used to do that when I worked in the ER for sure. Um, and then it creates this overthinking spiral where you my aunt, my aunt would say, you get into analysis paralysis. She was like, you overthink yourself so much that you can't even make a decision. And I remember like when I first started working with you, that was one of the things that I was like, hey, I like I can't, and you were like, Okay, it's a you you did my um what's that chart called we did? Um human design. Yes. I was like, with a little human, human design. We did the human design, and you went through that and you said, Okay, well, you're actually going against your human design. And so if it's a yes, it's a yes. If it's a no, it's a no. If it's a maybe, it's a no. And I was like, so I still use that now because I'll try to, I'll I still have that in the back of me where I still get into this overthinking rumination. And I'm like, oh, what did menu teach me? Okay, if it's a maybe, it's a no. And so I try to still do that so that I don't get stuck in that avoiding pattern pattern behavior.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Um, it's not always easy because healing is not easy. It's not easy, you guys. And I think that, you know, another way to humble yourself is saying, okay, you know what? This is it's May right now. When in five months I've learned all these things, then there's all these triggers, and in the next six or seven months, more could come up, and I'm I'm here for that, right? I'm not healed, I'm not perfect, I'm available for that, and I'm available not in a hyperfixating way as to like being hyper-vigilant saying, Oh, I'm gonna go to the therapist five times a week so that I can avoid it. No, no, no, no, no. You're just available if and when it shows up.

Johnna 24:17

Yeah, so you would say like healing sometimes is less about learning more and more about practicing differently. And more, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yes, yes, and more about being present when it comes up. Right. Right? People, what they do is when they overlearn, they also think that okay, when something else comes up, I can control it so I can be aware of it so it doesn't throw me off my tracks. No, you can't do that. Life is full of

Real Life Is The Only Test

SPEAKER_00 24:39

surprises.

Johnna 24:39

I was about to say, real life is actually the test, right? Like, real life is the thing that actually exposes our healing or in our triggers because we read all these books, right? And we're like, oh, this makes so much sense. This is what I do. Oh, I can just control that.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

No, you can't. You you really can't, and I can give you an example of this client um that worked with me very deeply um a few years ago, and her deepest wound was relationships, right? And so we were working on some trauma and we were releasing some old wounds and stuff like that. And then she was like, Well, I don't know, I don't know if this is enough, I don't know if this is enough. And I said, You know what? You're not gonna know until you start dating. Yeah, because when that per when another person comes and when they show you the mirror and they hold all your insecurities show up, and everything shows up, and that is an opportunity, a beautiful invitation for you to be like, Oh, gotcha, see, I didn't know all these things would show up and I'm single, but now that this person is presenting me with this mirror, now I know that these are things that I want to work with. And what we're actually sadly, what we're taught is that anything and everything that comes up, which is not happiness, is bad.

Johnna 25:51

Right. Which is if we wanted to flip that into a positive, and I don't know if this is true or not, you can tell me. Um, like you when we meet people and things and they're triggering us, it's like a mirror, like you said. Um, I heard this person when you are dating and you are so happy with this person or laughing or whatever, you you love the mo the feelings and the emotions. That's not really them, that's a mirror of you, and you like how you feel with them, and you like that version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

No, 1000%. It's never about anyone else. They are also reflecting the greatness and the light within you. And what that means is you don't need them, you already have that greatness and the light. They just reflected that part in you. And instead, what people do these days is they're like, Oh my god, he made me the happiest version or she made me the happiest version. No, no, no, no, no. That version lived in you. They were just holding up this mirror to reflect that, be a catalyst to show you that that's that is still alive within you.

Johnna 26:51

Yeah, and when you hear it like that, it kind of helps a little. I'm not saying it heals heartbreak, but that kind of helps a little bit. But

Social Media And Performative Vulnerability

Johnna 26:58

I know we were talking a little bit earlier about social media and how social media has made like I guess self-awareness in a way more complicated because now healing or being self-aware is something people just try to perform publicly, and that's what we were talking about, like you know, influencers or you know, self-help everywhere. Yeah. So, how has social media, in your opinion, changed the way people express trauma and healing? Since that's kind of what you do for a living, like and you see it, like, how do you not look at some like for example, if I'm looking at Gray's Anatomy TV and I'm in the healthcare field, I'm like, this is not real life. You know what I'm saying? So, like, and then you have people that believe that's how hospital systems are. And I'm like, So, do you in a sense, do you kind of do that too? Like when you're seeing people that probably has never went to training or teaching or anything, and they're saying, You should do this and you'll be healed. Are you like viral?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

So many times, so many times, and it's really sad, um, in a way that people really want to be seen, right? Everybody, all of us wants to be seen. So, what people have started doing is they've started using social media as a validation tool um to be seen, than actually um jump in and do the uncomfortable work. Because think about it, if you really do the work, if you're really making progress, why do you care whether you're seen or not? Right, right, right. Why do you, you know, you don't have to put that big post saying, oh my God, and these things happened and these things happened. And I'm not saying that I'm not an advocate for people that are healing and want to talk about it. Great, do the work and talk about it. Don't use social media as a platform for validation. I would rather you work on your validation issues and see yourself and give a big hug to your inner child all on your own in your own intimate time, right? And then you want to talk about it, talk about it. Don't talk about it without doing the work just because you want the comments and the likes.

Johnna 29:03

Because do you feel like it's more so like they use their trauma for social currency? Like 1000%. Even if you're getting bad remarks or um comments or whatever, it's still engagement and the algorithm sees that engagement. Absolutely, and then like I'm gonna say this, and I hope nobody hates me for it, but like the crying videos, I don't understand them, like people posting themselves crying. Like, I I in a sense I get it because people are like, look, it's okay to cry, it's okay to put that out there, but at the same time, it's just odd to post yourself crying. Yeah, I don't know, and I'm not trying to like hate on anyone for what they do or not, but for me, I'm just like, but why are you sharing that vulnerable moment? Like you could have easily done a similar post. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, I mean, that that's where I feel like there is authenticity some in some places, and then there is a lot of performance. I hate to say that word, but there is a lot of performance. And so um, I'm telling you guys when you when you consume it, and we've made an episode about this, I think many, many months ago, on how to consume responsibly. Remember, Jonah, we we made a really good episode, and we would really recommend listening to that because um when you consume, you also want to be really mindful, right? And I've I'm not saying I'm an expert at this, but at this point, after you know, working with over 2,000 clients and doing this work for 11 years, I think when I see two different posts on social media, I'm almost able to tell which is performance and which is real.

Johnna 30:39

Even though And maybe that's what it is when I see them, like maybe it doesn't feel authentic. That's what it is, and maybe that's why I'm like like this seems, but maybe if it felt authentic, and I mean I guess that like I've watched stories of people where they start crying and I'm like, oh wow, they really mean this, but versus like you know, because it's in that moment and it's raw and they're talking exactly, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

And and that's where I I would really use your discernment, right? Again, this is coming back to your point. Your nervous system is gonna pick up over your logic, yeah, and the nervous system is gonna, yeah, your nervous full circle, your nervous system is gonna be like, uh, I don't know if that's very genuine or it doesn't feel very genuine for me to like accept that. Yeah, you know, and then keep scrolling, keep scrolling.

Johnna 31:23

And I think you were right with like when you said I was gonna ask you this question, anyways, but you already said it like, do you think some people perform healing instead of actually embodying

Getting Addicted To Being Broken

Johnna 31:31

it?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yes, they perform healing because again, now coming back to the ego identity, it gives them the identity that oh my god, look at her, she's really doing the work. Yeah, and they care more about getting that validation than actually doing the healing.

Johnna 31:47

Yeah. Do you think that people could actually stay or be attached to being emotionally broken because of that? Because if you're putting it online and you're getting so many like comments, whether they be like, oh no, we don't want you to feel that way or you're so loved or whatever, can they be can people become attached to feeling emotionally broken?

SPEAKER_00 32:08

1000%. And think about it. It's in in their eyes, it's very, very beneficial for them. Because now, if they heal, they're not gonna get any attention. Yeah, that's what they're thinking because their currency is attention and validation. Their currency is not healing, right? Their currency now becomes perform performative validation, performing for attention, performing for approval.

Johnna 32:35

And guys, we're not saying this about everybody, just so you know, we're just talking about certain posts or language and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and coming to once again full circle, right? If you okay, if you're self-aware, you don't need to say that you are self-aware. This is another example of confidence. When you're confident, you don't have to say, I'm a confident woman. You don't have to say it. If you're aware, you don't have to say it. You don't know.

Johnna 33:04

Because you embody it.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, you embody it. People can feel that, oh, okay, this is a woman that's aware, and it looks like she's doing the work, or it looks like she's in touch with her emotions and vulnerability. And one classic sign I will tell you guys of somebody that's self-aware is, and and I know this is gonna sound counterintuitive, whatever, but they're they're actually going to be more comfortable being vulnerable, yeah, and being in touch with vulnerability.

Johnna 33:33

Yeah, I think there's a difference in being comfortable with vulnerable, I can never say that word, vulnerability versus like because for example, this podcast, when we have these conversations, we get vulnerable and we talk about these things. Yes, someone could come back and say, Well, y'all are being a little hypocritical because you're saying intense vulnerability, you're talking about emotions. Sure, one can think that, but I think we're also very um vulnerable enough to share our stories, but we're also just trying to do not a self-health podcast, we're just trying to like things that we've experienced in our lives, and we're comfortable doing that because if you come back and say, Oh, XYZ in a negative way, it's like, okay, well, I'm sorry it struck that nerve. But I get positive DMs a lot for people from people being like, we really appreciate you sharing that because I didn't realize other people were experiencing it, or it made me think about what I'm going through in a completely different way, which is the goal.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Which is the goal, exactly. And I I would just say again, you have to be okay with adversity, you have to be okay with discomfort, you have to be willing to do the deep work, but also don't attach your identity to it, right? Don't become that girl. Like, oh my god, I'm always the victim, I'm always unhealed, and you know, I'm always damaged. No, no, no, no, no. Everybody, if you look at it that way, everybody has work to do. How are you willing to see it? Are you willing to see that? Oh my God, what an honor and privilege it is to live in these times where there are so many tools available for free that I can actually show up for myself and do the work. Do you have that perspective? Or are you gonna say, oh my god, poor me, all the all these things keep happening to me? Again, if things are happening to you, it's not things are happening to you, things are happening for you. For you to rise up and say, Okay, I am the common denominator. What's going on with my frequency? What's going on with me? Right? And again, if you're self-aware of it, you don't have to publicly announce it and talk about it. Just do the work. Right.

Simpler Healing And The Human Experience

Johnna 35:44

So, would you say that true healing is simpler than we all think?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

True healing is extremely simpler than uh what we all think. True healing is showing up when discomfort arises before giving it titles and labels.

Johnna 35:58

And kind of like feeling safe enough to just live your life.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Feeling safe enough to regulate your feelings, feeling safe enough to admit that life is not perfect, feeling safe enough to admit that even if the day starts off good, it can be shitty later. Feeling safe enough to admit that it's gonna be up and down, and I'm human and I've signed up for a human experience, not a perfect experience, you know, not an ascended master experience where I don't have difficult times or difficult days. And life will humble you if you are not humble. Yeah, I that's something that I've learned. Yeah.

Johnna 36:29

And I love that you said that. Like we we signed up for this human experience, not this perfect experience, because we do watch movies. I mean, that's an entertainment here, you know. And so you look at these movies and you're like, wow, what a perfect life or everything, you know, turns out the way the person wanted it to. And we get in our mind that we're living this movie in our life, but we forget we don't have the production, we don't have the lighting, we don't have the editing, we don't have any of that. It's just an imperfect human experience that we have no control over ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

We have no control over ultimately, and and I also, I mean, this is another whole podcast I would like to talk about um on how movies are also like a form of brainwashing, is that um when they show you how the quote unquote perfect ending in the movie, um they want to make you think that that is the only appropriate uh perfect ending, right? But you gotta have discernment and be like, okay, what what is perfect for me? And not what they show in motion pictures, not what's happening in my friend's life, not what all the people that are quote unquote self-aware are talking about. What is nearly good for me? What's what's feeling like it's perfect for me? So it's also really important to not get trapped in that version.

Johnna 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Because they have to sell the tickets, you guys. They're doing it for a reason.

Johnna 37:49

Well, I mean, that's a good point, and that would be a really good podcast because there's so much I could say about that. Like that can tie into like how people view relationships and themselves and all that. So we'll save that for another day.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah, yeah.

Johnna 37:59

But why do you think it is that we make it so complicated to just heal?

SPEAKER_00 38:07

I think the truth is too simple for people.

Johnna 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

I think it's just so out there and it's so obvious. And so it's easy to ignore what's out there and what's so simple because we inherently want something more complex. We inherently want something that's bigger than simple. It it gives us a sense of ego again. It gives us a sense of problem solving, it gives us a sense of, oh my God, I'm really, really figuring it out. So I must be that person, right? So it's very difficult to just look at it. And I'm sorry to bring this example back again. And I think I talked about it in the previous episode, but if we looked at kids and kids are having a temper tantrum and they just cry, and then they're they're kind of okay in the next five minutes, you know, because they just let themselves feel the disappointment and feel upset and have a tantrum. And I'm not telling you to have a tantrum, but it is that simple.

Johnna 39:02

Yeah. Well, I think that I used to complicate it before working with you because I thought healing was I'm gonna be once once I figure it out, once I become so self-aware, I can stop it in its tracks, and I'm gonna be this whole new person. And I think once you realize like healing doesn't mean you're gonna wake up and be somebody different, it's still gonna be you because I remember you had to tell me a lot. I'd be like, Man, I did it again, I got upset again, or whatever it was. You'd be like, Yeah, but you're three steps forward, one step back, you're still two steps forward. But we catastrophize everything and want to go, well, I'm still that old me, that old version of me. It's like you're always gonna have that old version of you in you. That's not going nowhere. That's and once you accept that, I think that's like you said earlier. Like, once you have that acceptance of like, hey, that's part of my personality, and I need to just learn to accept it and love it. Unless you're a serial killer, don't accept that and don't love that. But just things like that are gonna come up, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, well, all I have to say is that's some self-awareness, Jonna.

Johnna 40:07

Um what would you say? Um, like what if healing is finally just feeling safe enough to be yourself, like we were just talking about? Would you say that's like true acceptance of self? Like you mentioned earlier, confidence, like that is what it is, and like people think confidence means you start to love your looks or you start to love, you know, and that's I mean, yeah, that can be part of it, but I think it's really just that, like, oh no, this is just who I am. And if you don't like it, then that's okay.

Accepting Signature Traits Without Settling

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah. This is just like, for example, with me, I think some of my close friends know this, and my partner knows this about me. Is sometimes when I get very excited, I have this habit of interrupting people. Same. And uh because I'm very excited, and I'm also worried that if I don't share it, I'll forget it. Same.

Johnna 40:56

That's why I was gonna say, Well, forget it. Yep, because we're probably a little ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah. And so, and I've done this with a few clients too. I've done this with my partner, I do this with my friends all the time, and I don't know if I really want to change that. I think it's just a part of my excitement. Um, I don't mean to be disrespectful. I'm always gonna come back to you after I've shared my excitement. I'm not gonna make it about me, right? I have a really good way of like coming back to the conversation, but this is just an example to say there are some things which are more like signature you, there are some things which are fascinating just about you. And you also want to make sure, okay, where am I embracing myself with who I am? And where are some areas where I don't want to embrace that because I don't really like that. And let me actually work on that, right? It's like finding that balance between where I can accept myself and where do I want to heal so that you're not getting trapped in this like endless um illusion, let's call it, of self-healing and making that an identity.

Johnna 42:00

No, I like that you said that about the interrupting as an example because I I do that too. I also have a bad habit of when people tell me stories, I have to think about something in my life that I have experienced that's similar so that I can understand and relate like empathetically. And I and and that's the only way I know how to get my body and my my nervous system to be like, why are they upset about this?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

That's right.

Johnna 42:24

And then I'll speaking of social media, I watched a TikTok and this guy actually explained, he was like, Have y'all ever had friends where they always it seems like they're always making it about themselves because they have to bring up their life experiences? He was like, That's really an ADHD brain type thing because they can't understand it any other way. And I was like, Oh, so this isn't a problem. I accept myself for this. I was like, Yeah, because if I don't, then I'm just gonna sit there looking at you like so you're upset over nothing.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then I become a cold-hearted bitch. That's right. You have to tap into some some form of relatability for you to tap into deep empathy, right?

Peace Feels Boring Before It Feels Safe

Johnna 43:03

Yeah. So, last question can peace feel unfamiliar before it feels good.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

I mean, peace can feel extremely boring before it feels good. I mean, I don't know about unfamiliar, but it can feel mind-knobbingly boring.

Johnna 43:18

Yeah, um, which unfamiliar can be uh or boring can be unfamiliar for people who are in chaos.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Absolutely, and it can also feel uncomfortable, right? So to answer your question, yes, um, if you've had a lot of um, let's say, activity, right? Or if you've had a lot of things going on for you all the time where you're healing from one breakup, you're healing from a work situation, you're healing something with this and that, then suddenly nothing is happening for some periods of time. You're gonna be like, oh my God, um I'm bored. Why is nothing happening? I I feel like something is going to happen. So, what will happen is either you'll be so uncomfortable. That you'll start anticipating that something is gonna happen. Uh, because that's a story based on the discomfort. Instead of creating a story, you can just be like, hey, I'm just not used to this. This is just uncomfortable. I'm just gonna sit with this because I think there is something great on the other side if I lean into this a little bit more. Because I think that I want this. Yeah.

Johnna 44:20

Yeah. I think the other part of that is if if, like you said, if if it's not, then you create it.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, 1000%. Because you're so uncomfortable, you almost want to self-sabotage and you want to co-create these situations or these drama out of your life so that it becomes, I guess, interesting. Again, I call it chaotic. Some people call it interesting. Hey, pick your word, you know?

Stop Performing And Start Living

Johnna 44:44

All right. So final thought. And you tell me if you agree or disagree. Maybe healing isn't becoming perfectly optimized. Maybe it's finally having enough safety inside yourself to stop performing, stop proving, and stop surviving, and maybe actually start living.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

I agree.

Johnna 45:01

Okay. Well, thank you guys for joining us for part two. And maybe you already gave us the next idea for our next podcast.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

I guess we're gonna talk about movies in real life. Oh, yeah. We're gonna we're gonna have a lot of interesting content coming up, you guys. So definitely stay tuned. And again, we are really grateful that we have more tools and information these days, but you also don't want to overly obsess. It is very simple. I just want you to remember that it's actually simple and it's not that complicated.

Johnna 45:30

Agreed. Because obviously we want people consuming your content menu. We want people like coming to you and being like, okay, I need help, but it's how you deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's a journey, not a destination. Just wanted to remember that.

Johnna 45:44

All right, guys. Until next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Until next time. Bye-bye.