Money Management for Catholic Couples w/ Jonathan & Amanda Teixera

Catholic Money Mastermind hosts Deb Meyer of WorthyNest® and Ben Martinek of Bona Fide Finance are joined by two very special guests today. Amanda and Jonathan Teixeira are the duo and happily married couple behind WalletWin, where they help everyday people create the life of their dreams by getting intentional with money. Additionally, the Teixeira’s share smart money principles from their first book -- How to Attack Debt, Build Savings, and Change the World Through Generosity: A Catholic Guide to Managing Your Money. We’re excited to share this interview with you!

Show Notes: https://www.catholicfinancialplanners.com/money-management-for-catholic-couples-w-jonathan-amanda-teixera-podcast/

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Transcript

Deb Meyer: All right. Welcome to the Catholic money mastermind podcast brought to you by the Catholic financial planners network. I'm your host, Deb Meyer, the founder of worthy nest and a CP financial planner. And today I'm also joined by my cohost Ben Martinek the founder of bone, a few day finance and also a financial planner.

We have a very special guest duo for you today. Amanda and Jonathan tech, Sarah are the happily married couple behind wallet. When, where they help everyday people create the life of their dreams by getting intentional with money. Additionally, they recently published their first book. It's called how to attack debt, build savings and change the world through generosity, a Catholic guide to managing your money.

We invited them on the podcast for a couple of weeks. First we're all Catholic. And secondly, we spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about advanced financial concepts around morally responsible investing or charitable giving other topics that you might talk about with a financial advisor. But Amanda and Jonathan bring a really unique perspective in foundational finance concepts like budgeting or getting out of debt.

We think their principles must be mastered first, and that's why we're bringing them on today. Okay, so Amanda and Jonathan, thanks for coming onto our podcast. I just want to start with something I saw in the beginning of the book where you talk about the myth that money is evil. And specifically you give some examples of saints like Saint Catherine, Drexel, or the Martines.

Could you elaborate for the podcast listeners on. W, you know, these examples or maybe pick one of them and then why it's crucial to consider the stories of the saints or other biblical truths in the financial decisions.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Hmm. I love that you referenced that. And really that was one of the most fun chapters for us to write. And it spent a lot of fun for us to dive into the lives of the saints. And something that I don't think we even fully realized maybe even a decade ago, but God is calling all of us to holiness and.

How he's going to use that call with our finances is going to look different for each of us. And I think sometimes the temptation is the, you know, the, the most perfect way to, to, to grow in holiness is to just abandon everything you have and just rely on divine Providence. But many of us are not going to be called.

And if we look to the lives of saints, certainly we're going to see many, you know, that we're called to kind of give away everything and just follow, follow the Lord or start a religious order. But we see so many that we're called to take the resources, entrusted to them and manage them in such a way that allowed them to do far greater, good in the world.

And to answer that call that he was at inviting them into. So specifically, when we look at the lives of, you know, the Drexels, they were extremely well. And they use that money to do so much good in Philadelphia where Katherine grew up. She saw her parents living out this heroic generosity, this oh my goodness.

I'm forgetting the word, Meg magnanimity. I can never quite say that easily. And then also the, the Martins you know, they ran successful businesses and manage their finances, very prudently. And because they were able to be so intentional with that, they literally raised St probably multiple.

 So not only did it serve them in growing in holiness, but it aided them to do. Kind of that, that biggest call of their vocation to lead their children to heaven too. So money was not an obstacle. So if money is evil, we see it contradicted all over the place in the lives of the saints. And really, I think.

 What it boils down to is what is God asking each of us uniquely in how to handle our money. And that's what we need to say yes to, and that's where we can grow in holiness, whether we have much or a little. Yeah. I think a lot of folks get the, get the idea from scripture where we see Jesus talked to the rich young man and he's tells him to, yeah, go sell everything.

You have, give it to the poor and come follow me. So then we think, oh, okay. I, if he was supposed to, I guess that may be I'm. I I'm called do that too. I don't want to walk away sad. And so we think, Okay. well that's the way to do it. Get rid of everything and, and, and go for it. But that was, Jesus has call.

That particular person, right? He has an intimate relationship, or he wants an intimate relationship with each of us individually. And I'm going to ask, you know, I asked different things from my relationship with Amanda than I do the neighbor down the street. From, you know, from one child to another, we asked different things of them.

We have a unique relationship with each of them. And so Jesus asks us for unique things. And for that guy, yes, the path for his salvation and his holiness was to sell everything, give it to the poor and follow Jesus other folks. Right. If, if the Drexel family did that, There would've been hundreds of folks without their rent getting paid in Philadelphia.

There wouldn't have been the sisters of the blessed sacrament and countless native American and African-American people would have gone without an education and who knows the ripples through the generations. So it's all about what God is asking us to do individually. And that's where a life of prayer and discernment comes in. 

Ben Martinek: For sure. Thanks so much guys for that great answer from ya. So as we move on from kind of the, the saints and maybe this dichotomy where the saints. I have provided a different path than what we might initially think of how to handle money and that we don't necessarily see the, the handling of your finances as an impairment to holiness.

In fact, it very well is Jonathan was just suggesting it might be the very pathway. One needs to take actually as their part pathway to sanctity. Nonetheless, in the beginning stages of your book, you only both come from different money backgrounds. And only use those variations to come up with your own new forged path.

 What practical advice would you give someone who's in the early stages of their financial journey and is we have maybe one who's more naturally inclined to save and the other one's naturally inclined to spend, you know, how did you guys work it out between the two of you? What advice would you give to somebody who's just starting off with how to manage. 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: I love this question. Because Jonathan and I are. We don't call it opposite. It's just complimentary. It's the nice way of saying it. You know, this is like as far on the two spectrums, as you could get in a lot of different things, we do have some similarities. There's a reason why we get, you know, why God matched us.

 But when it came to finances, you could not have found two different people. Just for an example. When I, when my dad moved me in for. You know, he dropped me off at the dorm. He gave me five crisp twenties, you know, thinking it'd probably be gone next weekend. Right. When I came home for Christmas break, I still had $60.

I'd only spent $40 on two sorority. T-shirts the entire semester. My meals are provided. My social life has provided. What else is there to spend money on? And it's 

Ben Martinek: Now you've met Jonathan, 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Listen to this. Hey honey. How many pizzas did you buy your entire college career? Zero. 

Ben Martinek: what? No way.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Right. I don't know if I went two weeks without a pizza. was always food. Why would I pay for more? Some people. How do they do it? I don't know. And you, you, you grew up like with your parents, always saying, you know, money's burning a hole in your pocket and before it even got to you, you know, how you already had it spent mentally. Absolutely. and so I think, you know, we encourage people when they're just starting out, we call it a money date.

So go on a money date, usually in a neutral public location, because this could get ugly. If you, you know, don't have eyewitnesses. And essentially you're going to unpack your family of origin. You know, how did money get handled in your home? Growing up? What kind of things were said about money, money doesn't go on, grow on trees, or, you know, what kind of little isms were existing.

And your family culture talk, you know, reflect on those yourself, you know, maybe take 15 or 20 minutes to kind of identify those. Cause I think most of us just ever sit down and actually realize what those were that were drilled into our, in our money mindset. Then you need to unpack that with the other person.

And then together, as you see these all kind of laying out on the table, you get to decide. Okay. Which ones are actually healthy and good, and which ones are garbage and we need to evict immediately. Cause they're not going to serve our family or uniting us as a couple. And so you get to decide, okay. Living off credit cards and, you know, Hating money and talking badly about it. We're not, that's not how we want to do it. Your family over here, they budgeted and you watch them do that. Okay. Let's go ahead and embrace that habit. And you know, they, they trusted God with their money. Okay. We want that to be part of our family and then you get to decide together what's going to be left in the past, and then what you're going to be striving to work towards together as a couple.

Yeah, a lot of it's similar to when you're getting married, you've got to figure out your family traditions. Now a lot of those are going to be shaped by the way, the two of you grew up, but you get a chance to pick and choose what you do and even incorporate some new things, right? Bring them into the family tree for the first time and see the same opportunities there with our finances, for those, whether it's daily or monthly or annual, you know, traditions, when it comes to handling our money. 

Deb Meyer: I was a great ideas. Thank you for sharing them. I guess we just want to expand upon the budget concept a little bit more. Cause obviously, you know, for a lot of people, budget might be considered a dirty word or it's just something they think of as restrictive and. Especially. I see I know we're recording this on audio, but I can see the video and Jonathan has this big smile.

 But you know, th this idea that like, okay, budgets are bad, any kind of restriction is, is not going to be a healthy path forward. So what do you guys think about the. Saying, Hey, there shouldn't be any negative connotation for budgets. Why do you think budgeting is necessary? You know, especially for Catholics who want to have this faith journey and be good stewards of wealth.

 And, and perhaps it's regardless of their income, right? It doesn't matter if they're making $500,000 or 50,000, but it just talk to that idea of budget.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: I'm smiling. Right? I had a very different idea. I mean, I wouldn't even call it budgeting, but before we got married, I did bank balance budgeting, which meant when I went to the store to buy something. If the price tag was low, Then my bank balance, I'd buy it. Without any regard to what else might need to come out of that bank balance like rent or 

Ben Martinek: gosh.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: And then it caught me and then I carried that with us. So us into some trouble early on. And so budgeting. I mean, I hear you, man. I mean, if, if you're listening to this, you're like, Yeah. budgeting. It can get a bad rap. It can be misused and certainly misunderstood. I mean, budgeting is not a way to keep your spending spouse in line.

It is not a way to whip yourself into shape. It is your plan for spending your money. I mean, a religious order lives by a rule of life. They'd say, you know, in this situation, we're going to act this way, a budget kind of the same thing, but for. of George Washington's that you have in the monastery of your bank.

Oh, what about that one? That's new right. You say in this situation, we're going, you guys are gonna act like this, right? So this, this group of you you're for the groceries, you're for the mortgage, whatever it is. And so it's, it's the plan, right? You sit down kind of in your right mind when you're calm and you're thinking about it, what you want to do in light of your goals.

 And you make the plan on how that money is going to get spent. So then when you're in the moment of decision in your brains, you know, kind of, kind of whacked out with all these different new stress hormones or whatever else is going on. Well, you don't have to make the decisions anymore. You just go to the decisions you've already made and live by the. Studies have shown that the word budget triggers, pain receptors in the brain, the same way that the word diet does. And so, you know, a lot of times people think of it as this financial juice cleanse and this painful tool, you know, the budget is going to come in, kind of manhandle me and tell me I can't do anything.

And I get like one penny over here for the stuff. And 99 pennies over to the stuff that I don't really want to do, but I should do because I'm an adult. And that sounds horrible. Who wants to do that? And so, you know, it's just this idea of reframing it and really when you approach it with a mindset of virtue budgeting is just living virtue with our money because we're it's an opportunity to kind of make that plan according to.

As best we know it God's will and circumstances for us in the present right now this month. And then we get to live by that and make those decisions based off. You know, the real data in front of us, that the budget is giving us our culture though tells us that freedom is doing whatever I want whenever I want with whoever I want, however much I want, but really that isn't freedom.

That's slavery to whatever whim fancy or, you know, idea. Come across my brain, true freedom is being able to do the right thing at the right time. And I think budgeting helps us to do that. And so it really does help us take a number of the virtues and kind of live them practically in our everyday life. 

Ben Martinek: For sure. I mean, I think one of the two items that we're always dealing with when it comes to money is either a fear or greed. And you know, I suppose you could maybe assign greed to the spender but then fear to the saver. Right? So but we have to work on both and I feel that budgeting helps in both ways because we have, I've certainly encountered other clients where their struggle actually isn't spending their money.

Saving too much of it. Like they're not willing to enjoy their money and the budget can be a tool to actually help extract out. Like and it's not just a budget, but really the financial plan. You have the means here. You've got freedom and ability to spend this money and we don't have not all your future days are going to be rainy.

Like we can enjoy your life a little bit. I see it on both sides and so on the, budget's a very helpful tool in either way, really like the media, they media via media with aerosol or St. Thomas Aquinas hitting and are identifying. Keeping us in the middle path or we're going to avoid either extreme here and not be operating either from greed or from fear.

You know, we want to be operating from a place of wholesomeness and, and respect and being human, really budgets. I love budgets. Honestly. I think they're amazing tools for pulling people right to where they need to be. They can be toilsome and tiresome and they definitely have that know factor. But they also have a wonderful, powerful yes.

Factor to them. And I couldn't speak highly enough on how good a budget is. Like, if you're not budgeting folks, like go do that. Like, it's one of the best things you could do for yourself. You know, I got to get my sales plug on budgeting. I love it. So anyhow, 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: and you know, I want to. Expand on that, just a little more, you know, debit brought up the idea of whether you have, you make $50,000 a year or $500,000 a year. The budget in both circumstances is going to be how you get to prioritize, how you're going to spend or assign all of that money and how you're going to make things happen in your life.

It's such a, a practical tool. And so we, we also love it and we teach people that it is not this, the thing. Kills all the fun. It's the thing that you, you might have to say no to some things that you want so that you can say yes to all the things that you love. And most of our budgets are going to be wildly different from one another's.

 Depending on what our current financial goals might be. Some people are paying off debt. And so that's going to be reflected very highly as a big percentage in their budget. But later on in the journey you know, if you don't have debt and you, your savings are kind of. Well, then by all means, you know, you could have a higher percentage to a number of different things where other people wouldn't prioritize them, but your budget reflects back to you.

The things that you value and is, is a real unique reflection of kind of your personality and your family's calling. So I love that. 

Ben Martinek: Maybe we're the savers in the group, but Debbie, you're quiet. I can, I pegged you as a, as a saver though. Jab, your attempt to save her. Sorry, John, you should speak up area.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: as a spender. I also love the budget it allows me. To spend it is, it is. Okay. Well, I'm going to save this up or I've got this much available for this thing or whatever. So I, I plan out the spending. A lot of people just think, oh, a spender, oh, you just, you just throws this money around.

No, not necessarily some, but Hey, but, but a spending can be Very in the details in response. It's just about where, where are you fall, right. And you want to be, you certainly, I don't know. Right? If anybody, like you said, should be on the extreme ends of either. If you can work your way even a little bit more towards the middle, you're going to be a happier person.

You're going to actually have money to spend. And you're actually going to be able to do something with the money that you've, that you have saved. So would you say when you open up the budget and you see, you know, $150 for. like, yes. And you're looking for ways to go spend it. It's a, it's an in some ways it's like, it's like somebody who likes to cook you, you want to know what ingredients you have.

You want to be able to open the pantry and see what you've got. And that is what a budget does.

Deb Meyer: Very well put.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Always a food analogy. 

Ben Martinek: Good for you. Alright, man. After my own heart. Yeah. Well, I'm in the last night, I would like to say on this and then we'll pivot into our next question is I think in every couple everyone's, regardless of who you are, more objectively, one, one person, a couple, the suspender one. Person's the saver, right?

I mean, I think both my wife and I tend to be savers overall, but between the two of us, I'm definitely the spender and she's the saver between the two of us. So she probably would laugh if she heard this in which I would identify myself as a saver because I love to spend too. So, but anyhow, both sides. Well at, so in the wallet when method you only make a distinction between starting a rainy rainy day fund and fully funding one. And truthfully, I'm not as familiar with the wallet, wind methods. I'd like for you to maybe just share a little bit, what is the wallet when method, you know, what have you identified here?

And then what is this distinction between starting a Randi rainy day fund and fully funding? One? What, what, what do you see the value in differentiating those two?

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Well, the wallet wind method is the phase. So it's made up of our four financial phases and 12 money milestones that we suggest that people go through on their financial journey. From first understanding their, we call their money mindset, you know, their relationship with money, what they think about it.

We talked about at the top of the episode and then all the way through really just lean. All the way into generosity, turning in and up to an 11 at the end of their journey when they have the freedom to, and along the way there's certainly kind of the step-by-step milestones, you know, do this, do this, do this.

 But then there's the higher level four financial phases, which kind of give you the character of that point in your journey. So the first one is establish your financial foundation. This is understanding your money mindset. Starting your budget, having the proper insurance getting that starter rainy day fund in place and getting off the paycheck to paycheck cycle.

So that started a rainy day fund, right? I mean, we want people to be well-prepared for an emergency that in some ways we'll hit but to save up, right, we recommend the full rainy day fund be four to six months of your expenses. And that can be. Bit of an amount to save up, especially coming out the gate.

And so by having a smaller amount there at the beginning when someone's just starting off, when you're getting going, you're able to, you know, hit that mark of about a thousand bucks and, you know, check that off and move on to the next goal. So we're able to have some cushion between you and life, but you're not slowed down and stuck there and thinking, man, this is.

Being responsible as all right, and all, but this is no fun. You know, I'm not making any progress, I'm not doing anything. We don't want people to just kind of get stuck there and give up. So we say, all right, have your surgery today, phone and then move on. Right. And you know, we've gotten a lot of feedback over the years of people asking, you know, a thousand dollars and I start a rainy day fund.

Is that really enough to sustain on along the journey of paying off debt? Because we, you know, show people how to do that after that, but there's a middle step there where we teach people how to. Break the paycheck to paycheck cycle by essentially getting a month ahead of their money. And so what this does, so not only do you have a thousand dollars kind of set aside for emergencies, but when you get a full month ahead of your money, you're now budgeting money.

You have not money you hope to have. And so a lot of other personal finance gurus out there will just kind of say, Make a budget based on kind of what you think is coming. But how many of us have had the situation where the money we thought was coming, never came or it was super different. And so we teach people to fully get out of that that paycheck to paycheck and have an entire month of money as they go into the month.

And what this does is it gives them an additional buffer before they'd have to bump into that thousand dollars. And so. It's a little bit of a, a custom plan to kind of have the starter rainy day fund, but then you've got this buffer according to your family. If you're you know, single and a new college grad saving up a month of money might only be a couple thousand dollars and it might be relatively easy for you, but maybe a larger family of 10.

They might need to save $9,000, but that's going to give them flexibility and freedom. In addition to that starter rainy day fund. So while they are getting out of debt, They aren't sweating because they really could sustain some impact on that without kind of reaching rock bottom. And then once they, you know, get out of debt, they full, they top out that full rainy day fund.

 And you know, we recommend four to six months of expenses for that. But gosh, in the last two years, I think most people are more comfortable now leaning towards the six than the, you know, they ever used. 

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I have some followup questions on that. Cause I was going to ask a little bit about that intermediary step. And you already touched on that, but I guess with the full rainy day fund, you know, you've also heard some people say save as much as 12 months of living expenses. I guess. What, what for you is that magic four to six number?

And does it vary depending upon whether you're a single income household or dual working parents? Like how does that make sense? As you're helping people build these full rainy day.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Figuring out that where you're, where you want to land between the four and the six months is, you know, Matter of, you know, your personal discernment. Now, the things that go into that decision-making process are, yeah. Okay. How stable is our income? Is it, you know, is there a big component of our households income that's commission or bonus based?

Is it just one or two incomes? Is it a. Sorry. Wow. Brain is blank. How risk tolerant are we? Are we people that are more comfortable just kind of living on the edge? Yeah. Or do we have, do I have steady employment? Or my, you know, a freelancer do I, my self employed where there's a little bit where, you know, it could get a little bit dicier. So there's all those little and just your own personal comfort level.

You know, some folks are just like, I want it maxed out. Yo somebody mentioned 12. That's interesting. Maybe we should do that. So there's going to be, there's going to be that personal part. That's going to pull you around. We say, we put that limit at six saving up the 12. I mean, that's, that's going to take at least twice as long.

And again, you're not making progress towards these other financial goals. You're not putting, you know, money towards investment or a down payment or things like that, where we want, we want people to be able to keep progressing through their journey even as, as they are. A set, you know, like Ben said, you know, not every day is going to be a rainy day preparing for six, six months.

 It gives you a pretty good buffer to figure out how to get back on your feet when something comes or, you know, absorb whatever shock might come your way. And you know, I just, I think that saving up a year of expenses for so many people could just be prohibitive. And then now even with our economy, you know, with inflation going up, it's like, goodness, well, what, what good was was that chunk of change doing there could half of it maybe have been put towards an asset that could actually appreciate and cashflow there's so many other options that I think would be better serve people beyond the six months.

And we're also in a day. and age when will it take six months to actually. Get a stream of income. Again, if you did lose your job, there's so many more opportunities nowadays. So that's kinda why we ended up with the four to six months range. And we do teach that that would be expenses, not just maybe like your everyday monthly budget since those can be pretty different.

If you're in a true emergency situation, you're probably not going to do some of the things that you do during a normal. 

Deb Meyer: Sure.

Ben Martinek: Yeah, there's a natural reduction in spending, right? I mean, if you're not feasting still, if you just lost your job, probably you will naturally tighten that belt up regardless of who you are. Right. And so yeah, I mean, I think that would that would make sense on, on any number of levels. You know, if you don't mind me asking, what, where do you guys keep yours personally?

What's your what's? What have you settled on for your emergency? 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: We just keep ours in a high, high, high yield checking or savings. Oh. 

Ben Martinek: Yeah, the link length of length of time. What have you guys settled on for the amount of savings you think is appropriate? Or if it suits you.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: well I'll, I guess I'll just be super transparent back in the day, we were more comfortable with for four months. And then now that our family has grown we're well more onto the side of six, you know, three adoptions in four years that. Essentially obliterated that fund every time. We're just, we're like, okay, we just, we got to grow this more. So if God, you. know, opens an opportunity, there'll be something maybe left at the end of it. 

Ben Martinek: I have a Deb. I don't want us to, I know you've got some other questions here, but I am curious to get your thoughts on the paycheck to paycheck. Why do you think people live paycheck to paycheck? Like just, what is it that prompts that? And maybe Jonathan, this question could be more geared towards yourself because I would imagine if you're going on a bank balance arrangement you know, that's pretty pay pretty paycheck to

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: of personal experience. So at least for me, it was you know, was spending money. And then it it's a question of, of when the funds are there. So I didn't have money to, and this, and then of course, debt gets piled on top of this. Right. But it's paycheck to paycheck because, well, I've got all these expenses, you know, legitimate expenses, even, you know, rent or mortgage and groceries and insurance and gas, you know, all that. Well, there's only, you know, those, those eat up the money and then, well, no, I'm waiting for the next paycheck. and then it comes and I need to spend it away, you know, right away. And then if you get. And F in front of that cycle, not like what I did well then. All right. Well, I know I'm going to get paid in a week, but I need to eat today, so let's put it on the credit card.

Okay. And I'm, you know, I'm going to put it on a credit card now I'm going to pay it off. You know, I'm just kind of moot, just kind of pushing the money forward a week or two. But then of course, I found ways to spend that money and I didn't have it again. And I paid off the car, but now I have that much less for my expenses.

And then I am there the same, same place two weeks later. So it's just, it starts a cycle where. You start eating into the money that either that you just got or you're about to get, and it just makes, it makes budgeting so much harder because we have to think and think through it and plan. Okay, well, this bill comes on this day, the month and I get paid on this one, but this is not quite enough money.

So I got to wait until after the next page. And now you're just doing this big scheduling. You have a calendar just for when you're going to pay your bills, where if you enter into the month, With a month of money, if you know, okay. For June, I've got $6,000 to spend, you know, I can put this much towards groceries.

I can put this much towards the electricity bill and pay it no matter what day of the month it comes, because I have it just sitting there waiting for when the bill comes. So it, it gets off the cycle. I'd say, I mean, what is. I just read this it's something like 75% of households are paycheck to paycheck and it's just, I mean, it's just stressful.

It's very stressful. And it's just because, you know, we, to be able to get off the paycheck to paycheck cycle, I mean, it's to be able to it's living below your means to build it up a bit and to, to get there. But a lot of us, I mean, I mean, especially these days when you know, prices rising. It's hard to get off the cycle if you, especially, if you're not thinking about it and really actively trying to do it it just can it can just eat it up.

Spending has a way of, of finding the available dollars and taking care of them for you. 

Ben Martinek: Two or three times over, I think, right. I think that's part of the problem is we have we have double accounting and we're like, oh, I got a $5,000 bonus or whatever it may be. And we find three different ways to spend it. And we spend it all three different ways. The $5,000 just doesn't stretch out to be 15, you know?

And that's the money didn't go quite as far as you thought it was going to. And I mean, I hate to be hearkening back on budgeting so much, but it just like. We all, I mean, I would be certainly without a budget, I would spend three different ways. I would come up with three different ways to spend that five grand and I would spend it three different ways and then I'd be like, oh crap.

You know, I don't have any money anymore. Where did it all go? It's the budget, but it tells me like, okay, well the spending stop the first time, you know, you'll have to wait for the second and third time, come up with another 5,000 to figure that out. Right. So.

Deb Meyer: yeah.

Ben Martinek: Well, Devin, I'm going to kick it over to you. I know you've got some other questions and guys I've broken us. I've taken us off script, which is I'm a little bit of an off-road or so watch out. Yeah.

Deb Meyer: I was going to ask a follow up question. It like went away from my mind for a second. So I was like, oh, I'll just go back onto the script. All right. So I was reading in the book. You said the day after your engagement, you actually sat down and had the money talk, right? You sh you were open and vulnerable with each other about some of your stories and, and talking about debt, things like that.

So, You know, I'm sure that was a very vulnerable day for both of you. How do you think debt actually played a role in helping you come together as a couple, rather than separating you? Because I think a natural tendency for a lot of people, if they have that conflict just want to run away or shut down, whatever.

How did you guys use that as a source of strength in your marriage rather than just disintegrate. 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: that I mean, we often tell people that we didn't know, our first year of marriage would be. Defined by a giant financial goal or that money would be the single most unifying thing in our marriage. We had no idea that was going to come. But we're so thankful that that was one of the first things that United us and brought us together.

And I think that that day, you know, where I asked Jonathan one day after we got engaged, like, do you have any debt? I probably should have asked that. Well, before. Oh, you didn't. But what I saw in him that day was just a desire to want to grow and a desire to want. Do it differently. He just didn't he had this natural humility and I think this might be one of your best strengths is, you know, he's not afraid to admit what he doesn't know. And then to say, I could use some formation in that, or I'd like to grow in that area.

 Whereas my, my more natural tendency is, you know, prideful and I want to act like I've got it all together, et cetera. But that gift that you gave us was just. Admitting kind of what, you know, you had some credit cards, et cetera, but like, Hey Lee, we could probably grow in this and now we, we didn't do it right away.

Cause we had a wedding to plan and we were distracted. But after we got home from the honeymoon, we added up the numbers and you know, it, it didn't look great, but. We both had this willingness to grow and it felt like we were on the same side of the table and debt was over there on the other side. So we were teammates.

It wasn't me versus him. We just automatically, it didn't matter whose this was coming into the relationship. It didn't matter what habits contributed to it. It was over there. We were here and we knew that we were both committed to. In our, you know, financial literacy skills and our knowledge. And I think that that can be, that can apply to most other areas in our life, you know?

And if you are looking for, you know, a great spouse, look for someone who's teachable, honestly, someone who has the humility to say, I want to grow, I've not arrived. I'm on a lifelong journey and I'm trying my best because that quality. Going to serve you decades and decades over in numerous situations that you run into.

And so for us, the first one out the gate for us was finances. I think Amanda mentioned it, but viewing the debt as ours was very important now, whose who signed, who signed for it? Most of it may through you know, student loans through credit cards, all that. But once we got married, I mean, just like everything. Ceases to be our own and becomes ours together. And so instead of thinking, okay, well, we gotta pay off your debt. Note, we, we have this debt and we need to pay it off. And then. That is what United us. It wasn't, it could have easily been, oh, we've got to do all this work to clean up Jonathan's mess. But instead the two of us were fighting against this, this debt monster who was standing in between us and the rest of our life.

So it brought us together in ways we never could have expected to be able to reach this goal that we had. 

Ben Martinek: Yeah, it's a very similar story to my own, which I don't know if I have shared or you guys are as much into details with, but when my wife and I came into our marriage, we both had quite a bit of debt. And so we spent the first several years fighting our way through it. And it wasn't unifying. It really got us to be working together as a team.

I mean, everything you just shared there really is spot on to exactly what took place in our own own marriage. So, you know, it's funny that the greatest challenges we face we face in life aren't necessarily one. No, they're not, you know, it really does spin this back to a life of faith. You know, it's, it's funny what God gives to us.

And he doesn't give us more than what we can handle and the trust and reliance on grace, you know, the beauty of the sacrament of marriage, but also the, you know, God's a scrape, a sculptor, you know, chiseling away at us and having the trust that what he's been placed before us on our pathway is, is really almost designed or intended for us alone.

And to, to use this as an option. As a team to come together and, and attack it, work together and let God work through us in this. Like it's all, it's really, it's amazing, right? I mean, it's mysterious and beautiful and it's arduous, but at the same time, we can look back at all and say, wow, this. I can see the hand of God at play in all of this. obviously we, we love your book so happy that you guys have written it and you've put it out there. And especially this emphasis on generosity and financial abundance. I mean, it's just, everything is spot on, you know, what are you hoping will come from this book? You know, this, the, this team effort yet again, that you've put together, what, what are your desires?

What do you want your readers to take away? If you could try to sum it up in just a few.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: I think that the, the biggest Emotion, I guess that I want to leave people with after they read it is just hope we scattered throughout it in between different chapters. Some of the, our students is stories from over the years. And I want people to see themselves in those stories. We included people from all different circumstances and life situations, because I do want people to know that you don't have to be a unicorn.

You don't have to have. A super high income. You don't have to have any of the things that you might think in order just to create some financial peace in your life. You can really do that at any, at any level. And so I want people to feel that hope. And then as they see a plan in front of them, they now know the steps that they could walk in order to kind of create that in their own life.

So that whole. And then the confidence is what I'd love to, to give people. Yeah, our goal wallet win is through, you know, through our book, through our courses and membership through everything that we do is to raise up the most financially literate and generous generation of the church so that we can fund the new evangelization and reach the world with the gospel.

That's the goal for the book.

Deb Meyer: That's a wonderful goal.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: That's the goal. of all of the things we all do, right? 

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I think that's what Ben and I are trying to do too through our annual planning in a way 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Yes. 

Deb Meyer: I'm always trying to help people increase in generosity too. So, well, well, thank you so much for joining us today. This is really been a pleasure and I just want to, you know, Give up any listeners, the opportunity to connect with you after this podcast episode, if they're really resonating with this and want to either find the book or learn more about while it, when, where should they go? 

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: You can head on over to wallet, wind.com. You'll find this there or on social media. We are at war. 

Deb Meyer: Wonderful. Then any closing thoughts?

Ben Martinek: No, it's just great to connect again with you. Jonathan and Amanda, we've met a few times now otherwise, and we're just super thankful that you're out in the marketplace providing the good news that you are. Thank you for your work. You know, I hopefully you get that feedback, but we want to make sure you get that appreciation and recognition you deserve.

It's meaningful and it is making a difference in the lives of people. So continue the good work.

Amanda & Jonathan Teixera: Thank you very much, Ben. Yes. Yes we do have, if you just can't get enough, Ben Martin neck we have an interview on our podcast. So you can find that at wallin.com/podcast on that page or search wallet when wherever you listen. And you'll find that episode too. Yep. Thanks for having us. 

Deb Meyer: Perfect. Thank you so much.