The Impact of Inflation: Long-Term Approach for Addressing Short-Term Concerns

On this episode of Catholic Money Mastermind podcast, Deb Meyer of WorthyNest®, Ben Martinek of Bona Fide Finance and Michael R. Acosta of Consolidated Planning, Inc. discuss the impacts of #inflation on households and how it is playing a role in the short-term financial decisions we make.  Be sure to listen to the end when the group provides thoughtful insights on how to better manage your emotions now while still focusing on the long-term horizon of your financial plan!

Show Notes: https://www.catholicfinancialplanners.com/the-impact-of-inflation-long-term-approach-for-addressing-short-term-concerns-podcast/

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Transcript

Ben Martinek: Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. It's great to have you here. This has been Martin knack with Catholic money mastermind and I'm being joined by two lovely members of the Catholic financial planners network. Deb Meyer and Michael Kosta. Is that the right pronunciation, Michael? 

Michael Acosta: Yeah, uh, Kosta Acosta. either way.

Ben Martinek: Kosta Acosta. All right. Like a tomato, tomato, so got Kosta Acosta. Well, Mike and Deb, thanks for joining me. We've got a fascinating conversation to have on, uh, really, uh, the current event of inflation it's taking hold here in our, our economy. It's definitely a hot topic item that we want to address and give some direction towards, uh, for those who are listening to.

But we also have a broader conversation really to have, uh, which has to do with how much, maybe the short-term impact of what's taking place in the marketplace or the economy should have on our long-term decision-making, uh, cause you know, should we give a whole lot of weight to the current impact of inflation?

And if so, how, how would that affect, uh, both the short-term and the long-term, but in the more immediate, uh, conversation. Get into some practical considerations of the timing of your decisions and maybe the challenges folks are facing with real estate acquisition purchases, your first time home buyer and, or even buying, uh, buying cars, groceries, or fuel, which I'm sure as everyone has seen has gone up quite a bit in recent months.

So, uh, you know, as we get underway, both Devin, Mike, uh, you know, who, uh, who wants to speak a little bit about the real estate, uh, exposure. He had some great thoughts for us, Mike, maybe. At the beginning of this, what are you, what are your thoughts on real estate in light of some of the latest market impacts? 

Michael Acosta: So it's interesting. Cause so here, out of the, out of the Southeast side of the Charlotte North Carolina area, we're seeing that, um, as far as homes coming to the market, about 90% of them or pre-existing homes, which is fairly high, historically when you know, real estate purchases are being made, usually there's a finer balance between new construction and pre-existing homes.

But what we've seen is, you know, that's increased to 90% and a lot of that stems from the fact that, uh, you know, we've been dealing with a global supply chain. Across the board since the start of the pandemic. So as we start to come out of the pandemic, you know, we're still trying to catch up with bottlenecks and just material being slow to, to entry into the, into the country, in getting off the ships and onto the, onto the, onto the, uh, the trucks and getting to their final destination.

So that's. Pushed, it pushed up the price of fair market value of homes in certain areas. Um, it mostly across the entire us. And so it's inflated inflated the actual cost itself. But what that's doing to first-time home buyers is it's making it more and more impossible to actually be in a position to afford a new home.

Right? So the median price of a home in Charlotte, North Carolina used to. Around 240,000, um, three, four or five years ago. Now that's a sense of increased to about 350, almost $400,000. Um, so you take young professional, young family. Who's looking to purchase their first home and that's going to require.

Um, a little bit more strategic planning, both on the down the down payment side of things, but also having to take into account the recent fed rate hikes in that interest rates had increased. I think about, uh, on mortgages, about 150 basis points in a fairly short period of time. So interest rates went, you know, if you recall.

Last summer being low twos. And in some instances, upper ones to now being into the upper fours, mid fives, and in some cases, lower sixes, which still, you know, in the grand scheme of things is, is relatively low interest rate. Right. Um, Deb, you mentioned during our conversation at going back to the eighties interest rates for home purchases, mortgages were as high as 26.

Um, obviously a different period of time. Cause you also have to take into account that homes. Then the median cost of a home was probably somewhere between 60,000 and $90,000, I would imagine. So society's evolved in the size homes that we desire. Right. And we've become a society where every three to five years, maybe for five to six, We want something new.

Right? And as someone that's just based on the quality of the builder, the homes that are, that are being brought to production today, they just don't last. Like they used to the material's not the same. Um, they may not be nearly as efficient, so wanting something new and something a little bit more glamorous, but from a purchasing standpoint, as those interest rates go up, your purchasing power goes down.

So what are we doing now? To prepare these clients to prepare these families, to be in a position to say, Hey, even if you're only bringing five, 10% as a first time home buyer, how are you getting to that point to where those savings are there? And how are you combating the fact that if the funds are sitting in a risk-free account, which they really should be right?

Because you don't want to expose them to any principal loss that they're not losing value even further because we're at an 8.3% inflation rate, right? So it's, it's a multifaceted compounding effect of all of these various variables that are. Not just the real estate market and home purchases, but across the board with everything that we're seeing, just society and within, you know, one's finding.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, 

Ben Martinek: I mean, we kind of have real quick. Yeah. We kind of have a question here really of rent versus buy and, you know, is it better or more affordable and uh, only, not just simply more affordable, but only to your, your best interest in the longterm to continue renting in the current circumstance versus buying.

And when would you see this crossover where the choice to have bought, even if it does. Packed into it, baked into it. These higher expenses is still going to be the better payoff if held a long enough. So I think we need to give some consideration on that, that breakeven analysis, but Deb, what, uh, what thoughts do you have on the matter?

Deb Meyer: Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, there's a couple of factors at play, obviously, as Michael was alluding to with the first time home buyers, they're in a very different spot than established homeowners, right? The established owner owners, if, if they were invested or had their house prior to. COVID uh, being declared a worldwide pandemic.

They've seen amazing appreciation in their homes in a very short time span. So in some of those cases, it can be very beneficial to if they are in a retiree stage where they're wanting to downsize anyway. So their house at a premium price and then go into a smaller, more modest home, less expensive home.

And even though the interest rates are increasing, they're still not increasing to an extent that, you know, we saw an hyperinflation in the eighties. So I think, uh, just to put some context around it, it's important to think about where you're at in that. Are you a new time, new home buyer potentially, or are you an existing owner who would just be looking to make a move either up or down or, or lateral move?

Right. Um, and for those who are looking to buy a bigger home or get into a more expensive home, The time to do that would have been last year when the mortgage rates were lower. Right. If, if you're planning on taking out a mortgage, which most 90% of people need to take a mortgage in order to afford it.

Um, so, you know, there's, there's that dynamic of like, okay, W am I too late now? Right. What we do know is the fed intends to raise interest rates even more so as the year goes on six months from now, mortgage rates could be even higher, likely will be higher. Um, if you are looking for a long-term. Home.

Don't look at it as a, as an investment. Look at it as more of this is the place you want to live and try to figure out as a Catholic, go through that lens of, of prudence and say, what's the type of home that is going to make my family happy and comfortable, but where I'm not overshooting. So I'm just living paycheck to paycheck because I'm trying to get into.

It more expensive rate. Um, and then for the renters, yeah. I mean, this might not be the optimal time to purchase, especially if you're going to be transitioning or moving to a new city or state, I would really only encourage you to look at buying a home as a first time home buyer. If you plan on staying in the house at least five.

Uh, just because the costs of selling after the fact they can run high, especially if you use a real estate agent, which most people do. Um, all of those costs for the real estate agent, both the seller and buyer's agents are on the seller that you're, you're paying those, those fees. Um, so there's a lot at play.

And then the other piece that I sometimes get concerned about is just. No, given the run-up, we've had 20% appreciation for the last two years and in most markets nationally or more. Right. But 20% I think is the average. Um, each of the last two years that has created an issue of, okay, well, our price is going to start crashing.

Right? We saw it in 2008, 2009, the housing market kind of blew up. There were a lot of houses. You had to take quite a haircut to sell if, if you had gotten into it in 2006 or 2007. So, um, in those particular cases, I mean, from what I've heard of real estate agents, they're not saying there's going to be any sharp.

Drop-off like we saw just 15 years ago, but we could be seeing definitely a much lower rate of appreciation than we have these last two years, which. When you look at historical norms, the last two years were just off the charts in terms of appreciate.

Ben Martinek: and I suppose we would credit Mike or Deb that to supply chain change shortages. I, is that what we're thinking? Maybe once that matter gets resolved at a home appreciation will maybe either plateau, not in your estimation, not that you're trying to predict anything, but in your estimation would necessarily revert and we'd see a decrease in value, but we wouldn't see quite the steep climb in home appreciation.

Once the supply chain gets caught up to do either one of you feel differently. 

Michael Acosta: I would agree with that statement. I think it's going to take some time to get, you know, the global economy back to the scale. It was from a production standpoint and get caught up on the demand. That's there today. Um, with there being such a high demand with so many different transplants, right? It's a, it's a completely new work economy where, you know, um, employees can work just from about anywhere.

So now there's, there's a, an incentive to move to that state or that location that you wanted to be in and work remotely where, you know, you can clock out and go outside and be right on the beach. Right. You can do that as opposed to having to be near the city so that you can take the bus or the train.

You know, commute in to be in the office and in your suit or your finest. Um, so, so because there is such a high demand with, you know, people moving, wanting to buy their first home or even downsizing. I think it's going to take some time just to, to get the supply chain back to where it was. But because of that, we're going to see those prices stay perched up.

Like I mentioned, and that's just going to be because of the pre-existing homes that are going to be coming to. Um, whether they, you know, they've been pre-existing for 20 years or five years and, you know, I'm hedging off of what, what, what would dead mention looking at that rent to buy? And are we moving into a, a, um, a time period where, you know, there might be a class of full-time renters, right?

They may not ever get to that point to where they would, they're able to purchase a home. You know, we have clients out in California and that's the biggest fear is being pressured. Because of how quickly the housing market grew in the California area, especially if you want to live in a fairly modest part of part of town or in a, in a safe city.

So I think that's something that's starting to spread nationwide, um, mainly in the larger cities. Um, but I think it could become more concerning if it actually started to spread to, um, some of the more rural, rural areas. 

Ben Martinek: Now that that is interesting and I'm only not a macro economist, so I can't really speak to this matter other than just simply speculate. But you know, as much as maybe home prices are appreciating and value, presumably those higher earning jobs that have now spread out from the centralized urban areas or Metro areas.

And now coming into the more rural spaces. You know, that higher income also comes into that local economy. And one would think, and in its own, right, would spur other economic activity and give maybe a, some rural areas that have been sluggish, a jolt of life that they wouldn't get otherwise. So even if it does push price, price, home prices up.

One would wonder, at least I do whether or not this is still in the grand scheme of things is still good for those local markets and may spur other development that they would have struggled to, uh, to have acquired, uh, otherwise in some ways it's, you know, it's a transference of economic development that has been rather, uh, consolidated into some locales.

And now spreading that more as a matter of equilibrium, one might say into other parts of the country, either one of you kind of feel or think similarly as to that, as a possibility of what we would see, uh, the playout of this. Move towards telecommuting and working from home.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I'm actually seeing it a lot in my community. I'm in Florida and, uh, just outside Fort Myers in a newer, uh, Called Babcock ranch. And what we're seeing locally, I was actually just watching a YouTube video of one of our local realtors here. Um, affordability is definitely becoming an issue out here.

We, we do attract a lot of, um, I guess, higher paid workers that have the opportunity of in many cases working remotely and, um, For them, you know, it's like, okay, they, they're not as concerned about coming into the neighborhood, but there is a concern. We want to be able to develop a self-sustaining town.

And we have a, you know, neighborhood school. And we have teachers that work at the neighborhood school that are not ever going to be making, you know, six figure incomes. Uh, so the whole idea is how do we create a space where the teachers can live in addition to. You know, perhaps higher earning white collar workers.

Um, and what they're actually looking at doing is developing plots of single family homes for rent. Uh, the developer here is actually looking at building that out. Uh, I don't know exactly what the timeframe is, but it's, it's definitely down, you know, coming down the pike and. What we're also seeing just within the last couple of weeks, the tide has turned in terms of home sitting a little bit longer on the market, especially if they're over a certain price point, uh, and people are really starting to see that impact of the higher interest rates and affordable.

Ben Martinek: For sure. But I, the question I would like to circle back to, and maybe get your thoughts on Mike is in the long-term though. I mean, it's unfortunate maybe to have higher costs in home acquisition than what you would have had a few years ago and you hate to come to the party too late, but it doesn't really change in my estimation, the radical decision or the fundamental decision here.

Uh, when do you have this breakeven where versus a short-term versus long-term arrangement, typically in the longterm, you tend to come out with home ownership, uh, and what would change here? Isn't so much whether or not, I think in the long-term, but that would still be the play is perhaps it just delays that break even point maybe instead of three to five years, you would come out to head by owning a home versus renting.

And maybe it's as much as five to seven or even 10 years. Uh, we also have the potential in which we would get too much money. Resources tied up in your home and you become a house rich and cash poor. We don't have any other resources of money, but, you know, I would like to give a little bit of a long-term take on this, you know, do you see my, you know, does this fundamentally change the decision to buy a home?

You know, even, even if it's not as favorable as it was a little while ago, Should is the longterm bet of homeownership, the right call. And you just kind of have to stomach these higher costs or what kind of changes or adjustments to timing would you advocate for? Uh, right now, even with an eye to the long-term. 

Michael Acosta: So I think it fundamentally comes down to a couple of variables. One, are you able to purchase a home in an area that, that you desire, right? Are you having to settle or concede on. Location because your purchasing power was just decreased based on interest rates or even inflation, um, eating away your savings power month to month.

So I think you first have to determine, okay, well, can I still get the home that I desire and that I want, Right. That I would be satisfied with because no one wants buyer's remorse, especially with a house. I mean, you just mentioned it would more than likely be five years until you hit your breakeven in being able to recoup all your expenses that you put into the home.

Um, also. What would you now qualify for purchase price wise based on those interest rates? Right. And then because of the home prices going up, do I have enough liquidity on hand to make the required down payment? Whether it's 5, 10, 15, 20%, but also still have an adequate emergency fund or liquidity on hand for.

That first year of home ownership, which we all know is the most expensive year. Right? You have moving expenses. You probably now have more rooms than you had prior when you were renting. Um, every weekend you're at Lowe's or some sort of home goods place, because you're trying to fill a place. Something got broken transition, you know, it's just very expensive.

It is what it is. So we never want to see our clients go into their first home. By depleting all of their liquidity, because then what they're doing is they're exposing themselves to unforeseen risk, especially as we're seeing other expenses that are, non-discretionary like, uh, automobile fuel groceries and just energy in general and other services just going up, right?

Because th the, the increased costs are being passed onto the. So I wouldn't necessarily say that it deters anyone from being able to be in a position to purchase a home. I think it just requires a little bit more prudence and discernment, right. Maybe a little bit more prayer to say, okay, well is now the right time.

Um, should I wait a couple more months and save for a couple more months? We'll have a little bit more liquidity on hand so that I can purchase the home that I truly love as opposed to settling for something that I may want to try to sell in the next two to three years and maybe not recoup everything, you know, that I put in.

Um, so, you know, it's the best answer I think any advisor could give is that it really depends, right? It depends on the situation. That's a great answer that anyone wants to hear, but it's truly the best answer because it is circumstantial. 

Ben Martinek: Great. I'd love to kick it over to you in a moment to get your thoughts. But I mean, some of the takeaways I had from that mic is you shouldn't Nestle have urgency in this decision and try to rush it along because it may be inferior. You think mortgage rates will go up even higher or even home to appreciate even higher.

And you're afraid that you won't ever get in. If you don't get it. Now, the reality is is if you don't get into what you like and stick with. You're probably going to go backwards anyhow, in this decision and get hurt. And especially if there's any concern about job stability and your ability to stay in this home for five, seven years, it's, we've been alluding to, you know, what would could really hurt you as to make renting, be the better choice as if you've gotten into a home, but you can't maintain them and you have to get right back.

I went at the same time, home values have dropped off and you can't, you're selling at a bad price or whatever it might be. You know, now this whole decide decision to try to win by long-term home ownership has just kind of blown up in your face. And so we don't, uh, you know, even things aren't as favorable as they are.

It doesn't mean we need to go and panic and rush, rush this decision along. Uh, do you feel the same way, Deb? I mean, what kind of thoughts do you have on this? You know, how soon should someone try to buy right now? Is that really matter?

Deb Meyer: Yeah. I mean, I think Michael hits the nail on the head in terms of understanding. It's not just about getting in quickly before prices appreciate more or the interest rate goes up. It's really that longer-term decision of, Hey, am I ready as a first time home buyer potentially, am I really ready to own a home?

Because there are a lot of hidden costs. Um, I have one client that when they are, they first moved into their home, I mean, they had. The roof and the furnace and all these other things all within the first year. And they, I think they like had the inspection, but hadn't really gone through the detail of understanding, okay, this is going to be a really big expense coming up right off the bat.

And, uh, it was, it was a shock. And luckily they were in a position where they could, you know, uh, pay for some of those costs just because they had developed diligence, savings habits. Uh, it was, it was really tough. And I would just encourage anyone if you're, um, currently running and looking to own. Yeah.

Think through it from a long-term perspective, not just a short-term perspective, fueled by this hyper inflationary environment. Uh, the other thing too, you know, with down payments, as Michael alluded to, you can get a home for lower than a 20% down payment, but you're going to have to. Meet the difference.

So if you don't have 20% down, usually you're either paying PMI, private mortgage insurance, or you're taking out a secondary loan. And that's typically a variable interest rate, which is going to increase. Interest rate as the fed increases rates. Right. So, um, there's just a lot of hardship there that you could run into where you would be paying PMI or paying on the secondary loan for quite a while before the home appreciation as enough that you have that 20% equity in the house.

And, um, yeah, just definitely think through those, those kinds of, um, items before you.

Ben Martinek: Well, as you as folks, uh, thanks for sharing that Deb is folks are considering this buy versus rent versus buy decision. If you're not familiar, there is a really handy calculator with the New York times called rent. Is it better to rent or buy, or you can find it pretty easily on Google. And as you're making a, you've got these considerations, there's about 20 inputs in that calculator.

Does a nice job of showing the potential break, even for the decision at hand. So certainly recommend that again, this with New York times, uh, is it better to rent or buy the New York times article? And if you need any additional assistance in that regard, give one of us a call. That's what we're here for as advisors of the Catholic financial planners network.

But before, uh, you know, we, we call this a wrap. I'd like to get into a few other topics. We've talked primarily about real estate and with good reason that the decision to buy a home is one of the biggest decisions. People will often make on their lifetimes. And now with the conditions not as favorable as once before, it's certainly a pertinent question, an item to a hair out, but inflation, isn't just inflecting home values.

As we know, it's also impacting, uh, gas prices and food prices and people are probably seeing it in other home fronts. Uh, you know, in terms of where things are just getting more expensive. And perhaps, unfortunately we're not seeing. Uh, I seen a similar increase in income. And so we're getting pinched where, you know, our money just isn't going as far as it has.

It used to, you know, in light of, uh, you know, managing your daily budget, monthly budget, what are some recommendations or ideas that come to mind for each of you for, uh, you know, fuel prices, food prices, utilities, and maybe getting an increase in salary there at the, or, and pay find another job in the face of inflation.

You know, Mike, what are you telling me? 

Michael Acosta: It's a combination of things, but I think the first one that you alluded to is can you afford, are you in a position to have a part-time role or a side side gig, right. We live in a gig economy now where you can pretty much, um, clock in clock out just by having a, um, a smartphone, whether it be for Uber or Uber eats or Lyft, whatever, it may be not doing something part-time just to make some extra cash, put it in your.

But also just understanding your financial plan. So if you work with a financial advisor, there's a plan for a reason. And the plan is really there to reaffirm the work that's been done during the glory days. Right? So when the market's going up and inflation is low and, and costs are relatively low and energy costs are low.

Everyone's excited. Everyone trusts the plan, but when things start to go sideways and everything's coming straight at you and everything just seems like it's complete terminal. That's when you start to question the plan and that's why the planes, their right to bring you back to reality to control the emotion.

So if you have been working with an advisor, leverage them to reaffirm, you know, what you've been doing, and hopefully they've been putting you in a position to where, even though the market's going down, even though that, you know, costs are going up, Built the right amount of liquidity on your balance sheet to be able to withstand this specific time period.

Right. Um, your portfolio is positioned in a manner where it's for the longterm so that you're not chasing return. You're not, um, adjusting the allocation based on trends or you're it's, it's, it's educational, there's a method to the madness and you're really focused on, okay. Well, when the market starts to recover, you're able to capture as much of that upside as well.

Right. So it's, it's a, it's a matter of managing risk and emotion. And that's where we come in as the advisors to help assist in that, because it could be detrimental as an investor to allow your emotions, get the best of you and you start to make a rational decisions. You know, I start to sell when it's low instead of selling when it's high.

So from an asset location standpoint, if you've done the right work, if you built your balance sheet and the appropriate manner where you have a liquidity, hopefully you've got enough savings to withstand the increased expenses. Just be more cognizant of your spending. Everyone knows that you're, you're going to the grocery store and spending the same amount and getting less items today.

So, um, just be aware of what you're purchasing and maybe. Creative with the different grocery stores that you're going to write, maybe drive a little bit less frequently, um, and just focus on the things that you can control, which is how much you're putting back on your balance sheet, where you're allocating it and, and how much you're putting onto somebody else's back. 

Ben Martinek: Sure. Thanks, Mike, for that. What are your thoughts on the matter of kind of some of these other, uh, daily home purchases, whether it's fuel fuel, not cars, we haven't even talked about vehicles much yet, but any considerations in light of inflation and, and perhaps a pinch that we're experiencing right now.

Deb Meyer: Yeah. Um, I do think it's important to be cognizant of your spending and look at, you know, areas where you could perhaps make some cuts because you know, the cost of fuel, the cost of food items are increasing. Um, but I also want, you know, I think through in terms of w you know, what's really important to you and your family.

If you guys are perpetually going out to eat, for example, maybe just having, okay, we're going to have one or two nights a week that we're cooking at home. You're going to save quite a bit of money. By doing that one simple action. Um, if you're the type of family that, you know, you have a job where you end up having to drive for an hour each way, and the fuel cost is just getting to be so extreme.

Perhaps it's good to start looking for a remote role or some other kind of position that's a little bit closer to home, uh, so that you could legitimately still, you know, be productive in the workforce and. Earn earn a good living for the family, but you're at least being, um, cognizant of the fact that gas prices are probably not going down anytime soon.

Um, You know, I've heard plenty of people ask, oh, well, would it make sense to buy an electric vehicle in times like these? Well, unfortunately it's very expensive to buy an electric vehicle and Tesla has a waiting list out the wazoo for what I hear. So, uh, everybody wants an electric vehicle now. Right?

They didn't want it six months ago, but they want it now. 

Michael Acosta: least a hybrid. 

Ben Martinek: There you go.

Deb Meyer: yes. My parents got a hybrid recently and they, uh, they had to wait. Quite a while. It was one of those things too, where the guy's like, oh yeah, it's going to be here. Then it was like three weeks after that. And that promise date. Right. Um, anyway, it's uh, yeah, there are definitely some decisions I think that you could be making, uh, just at a small level, but when you're thinking about some of these broader decisions, even just talking about vehicles for a minute, if you have a much older vehicle where.

It's several hundred thousand miles on it, I'd say 175,000 miles or more. Uh, if you're going to have to start putting a lot of money just into the mechanical maintenance of that, and it happens to be a gas hog, probably not the best vehicle for your family going forward, especially as interest rates rise.

Uh, I know most people are saying, oh, but always buy used cars, but to be totally honest. So used cars have risen in price like 40% and the matter of a year. New car prices have also risen. Uh, I think it's closer to 10%, but obviously there's a pretty big Delta there between used cars and new cars. If you have a used car and you were planning on purchasing something soon anyway, might make sense to try and capitalize on it while the used car prices are still strong and they can just get that other new car that you had planned for hopefully still at a pretty modest interest rate.

So those are some just practical considerations, I think in the short term that you could look at.

Ben Martinek: Well, great. Well, thank you so much. My condemn for taking some time to meet with us and hash through these considerations. You know, again, insulation's top of mind for a lot of folks right now, and you know, the world and the economy have changed quite a bit in the last year and what they were, what they were a year ago.

And so, uh, you know, people, I think. We have some anxiety and concern about what to do. It seems to me like some of the takeaways I'm taking from this is like, look, you know, in the long-term have a long-term plan and stick to that. And you know, we're going to have ups and downs in the markets is simply what they are.

And no one's ever had an easy time in the short term. There's always challenges that we all face. Uh, but what's kind of critical in this is this long-term plan and having an eye to that. Oh, these things in my estimation tend to work themselves out and, uh, where we can really get our help ourselves hurt isn't in the longterm.

It's going to be, and, uh, you know, rushing, rushing our decisions along and trying to get too smart with those decisions. And then, uh, in effect effectively shooting ourselves in the foot unintentionally as a result. So let's keep our head about ourselves and keep an eye to the, uh, keep the eyes of the longterm.

And, uh, you know, in the meantime, just manage, manage what we can. There are good rainy days and sunny days. And we have a little bit of a rainy day going on, but it's not always going to rain. So some will come back out so well, that'll be it for now. Thanks so much, Deb and Mike for joining us. Uh, thank you audience for listening to another episode of the Catholic money, mass money mastermind podcast.

It's great having you here. And I look forward to sending a few more your way. So stay tuned and keep an eye out in the meantime, God's blessings upon each and every one of you.