Eating Disorders with Jennifer Rollin, MSW, LCSW-C

Montare Media presents Season 2, episode 19 of the Discover U Podcast with JD Kalmenson: Healing from Eating Disorders with Jennifer Rollin, MSW, LSCSW-C.

Learn More about Montare Behavioral Health: https://montarebehavioralhealth.com/about/digital-library/

JD Kalmenson’s interview with Jennifer Rollin, MSW, LCSW-C, brings a nuanced perspective to the wide-ranging world of eating disorders. Jennifer discusses the connection between various symptoms and their underlying causes– from genetic to environmental, and paths toward
healing.

Jennifer is a therapist and founder of The Eating Disorder Center in Rockville, Maryland, who specializes in working with adolescents and adults with eating disorders including anorexia, bulimia and binge eating disorder, and body image issues as well as anxiety, depression,
 bipolar disorder and self-injury.
 

Named as one of the top eating disorder experts in the country by a leading eating disorder treatment center, Jennifer has experience working in a variety of settings and served as the chairwoman of Project Heal’s national network of eating disorder treatment providers.

She has been interviewed about eating disorders on NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, and PBS, as well as The Washington Post, TIME Magazine, US News and World Report, Forbes, and Esquire, to name a few. She gives talks on eating disorders at national conferences, therapy centers, retreats and colleges. And she is the staff expert writer on eating disorders at the Huffington Post and Psychology Today. Jennifer co-authored the best-selling book “The Inside Scoop to Eating Disorder Recover: Advice From Two Therapists Who Have Been There.”
 

Host Kalmenson is the CEO/Founder of Renewal Health Group, a family of addiction treatment centers, and Montare Behavioral Health, a comprehensive brand of mental health treatment facilities in Southern California. Kalmenson is a Yale Chabad Scholar, a skilled facilitator, teacher, counselor, and speaker, who has provided chaplain services to prisons, local groups and remote villages throughout the world. His diverse experience as a rabbi, chaplain, and CEO has inspired his passion and deep understanding of the necessity for effective mental health treatment and long-term sobriety.

Follow JD at JDKalmenson.com

Transcript

JD Kalmenson: 

Welcome to another episode of Discover U, our podcast exploring innovative and effective solutions to issues in mental and behavioral health. I'm JD Kalmenson, CEO of Montare Behavioral Health, a family of dynamic treatment centers in Southern California. I'm so honored and excited to introduce you to our wonderful guest today, Jennifer Rollin. Jennifer is a therapist and founder of the eating disorder in Rockville, Maryland, who specializes in working with adolescents and adults with eating disorders, including anorexia bulimia, binge eating disorder and body image issues, as well as anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, and self-injury. She's been interviewed about eating disorders on NBC, ABC, CBS Fox, and PBS, as well as the Washington Post, Time Magazine, US News and World Report, Forbes, and Esquire to name just a few. She gives talks on eating disorders at national conferences, therapy centers, retreats, and colleges. And she's the staff expert writer on eating disorders at the Huffington Post and Psychology Today. Jennifer co-authored the bestselling book, The Inside Scoop on Eating Disorders: Recovery Advice from Two Therapists Who Have Been There. Welcome Jennifer. So happy to have you with us today. 

Jennifer Rollin:

Thank you so much for having me

JD Kalmenson:

Absolutely jumping right in to start with, how did you get interested in working with clients with eating disorders?

Jennifer Rollin:

So I went through my own recovery and eventually recovered from an eating disorder. And I actually thought that I didn't wanna work with clients with eating disorders, but when I went to school to become a therapist, I found that I naturally kind of gravitated towards those clients in my clinical practicums. And so then I sought additional training in eating disorders. And now that's the majority of what I do is specializing in working with clients with eating disorders.

JD Kalmenson:

That's amazing. Well, obviously having been through experience like that, you have deeper insight in ways that somebody who's never been through that would never have. And I, I would like to ask you if empathy and having been there creates just that in it of itself creates a greater effective efficaciousness when you're treating a client by them really feeling like, wow, you, know exactly what I'm feeling.

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. So I don't think you need to have had a eating disorder to be an awesome eating disorder therapist, but I think it has definitely helped me to have that empathy and to be able to say to clients when appropriate, you know, I can relate to that. That was something I also struggled with in the past. And it's something I don't struggle with anymore. And let's talk about how we can help you to get there. So I think it also instills hope for clients to see that there are people on the other side and that there is life after an eating disorder.

JD Kalmenson:

Sure, for sure. I mean, before we go any further, people lump together all the categories of you know, eating disorders and they just call it one general eating disorder. But if you can give our audience a brief description of the most prominent, prevalent diagnoses and what distinguishes one from the next.

Jennifer Rollin:

Sure. So there's a lot of similarities for sure, but there's also differences among the diagnoses. The main eating disorders that we think about there's anorexia, which involves restriction of energy intake. Often a fear of weight gain or persistent behavior that interferes with weight gain, as well as distorted body image. There's also binge eating disorder, and that one involves recurrent episodes of binge eating at least once a week for three months, then there's bulimia, and bulimia is episodes of binge eating with compensatory behaviors. So that might be excessive exercise, laxatives, enemas, and then there's OSFED, otherwise specified feeding and eating disorder. And that is still a very serious eating disorder, but it's essentially when you have a clinically significant eating disorder, but you don't fit into the other categories. And then there's also RFID which is an eating or feeding disturbance that involves a lack of interest in eating of food, or avoidance based on sensory characteristics of the food as manifested by a persistent failure to meet appropriate nutritional or energy needs. An

JD Kalmenson:

So RFID wouldn't, wouldn't be as a result of body image, it would just be a host of other variables, which would impact somebody's appetite in a, in a destructive way.

Jennifer Rollin:

Exactly.

JD Kalmenson:

And when you talked about binge eating that, that having that type of an experience once a week or so is binge eating defined based on somebody eating way more than they need, or should, or is it defined by other metrics

Jennifer Rollin:

It's defined by a few different things, but it's eating more than quote unquote the average person would consume in a short period of time, and it's associated with feeling out of control, feeling guilt and shame after a binge episode feelings of disgust with one self. So those are some of the other factors that signify that it's a binge. Eating more rapidly than usual would be another one.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. Right. How about obsessive thinking about food even when you're not eating?

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah, so that one is pretty common across. Many of the eating disorders is thinking about food pretty much 24 /7.

JD Kalmenson:

Interesting. So we have this entire gamut, right from anorexia to binge eating with everything in between. Can they be treated in the same environment as far as interventions go… is there anything similar even though their symptoms are so diverse or are polar opposites?

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah, I think there can be a lot of similarities in how we treat eating disorders. And there also can be both symptom crossover where we see a lot of people with binge eating disorder are very restrictive at times, similar to somebody with anorexia. And we also see that in terms of treatment, there are similarities in how we treat it. So the other thing that we see is there are people who go from different eating disorder manifestations. So maybe they start out having anorexia, but then later it looks like binge eating disorder. So there's a lot of overlap and I do think they can be treated in the same environment as long as we're giving special considerations to each illness.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. Right. And we wanna obviously make sure nobody gets triggered by you know, by someone else's symptoms.

Jennifer Rollin:

Right?

JD Kalmenson:

So O C D for example, treatment for O C D is very behavioral. It's very practice based. You are trying to undo certain habits or, and, you know, and help them learn new ones. Eating disorder is a composite of a lot of psychological chaos turmoil underneath, right. Obviously poor body image is going to reflect a poor sense of self-esteem poor confidence. And then there's also the very real toxic behavioral pattern of binging or restricting or purging. What would you say should be the focus? I mean, obviously we wanna tackle both. We don't wanna neglect one over the other is one more of a cause and effect. H how would you go about intertwining and meshing these two separate components within the intervention and the recovery?

Jennifer Rollin:

I think both need to be addressed. We need to be looking at underlying things that may have contributed to the eating disorder, such as past trauma experiences of depression, relational issues, anxiety, or depression, and kind of, you know, the function of the eating disorder. And then we also need to be directly looking at the eating disorder thoughts and behaviors, because I could talk with you all day about, you know, the impact your mother had on your life. And that's important, but if we never talk about the food and your thoughts and behaviors around food, we're missing a really crucial element. So we really have to be combined in both in our treatment of eating disorders.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. I mean, and that leads me to the next thing. So many people have a lot of the same underlying traumatic or psychological issues and challenges, but they will not develop an eating disorder. Is there's something that makes one particularly prone susceptible or vulnerable to a behavioral, psychological challenge, traversing and bridging its way into an actual eating disorder. Is there something specific that one can identify or one can you know, be aware of that makes them aware of the susceptibility?

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. So there are, it's a bio psychosocial illness. So there's often an underlying genetic component. There might be a family member who struggled with eating disorder, and then there are certain environmental and temperamental factors that can bring out that eating disorder and cause it to develop. And so some of those environmental factors could include being bullied as a child for your weight, exposure to diet culture, and anti-fat bias, past trauma and temperamental factors. They're so different per each unique person, but that could include harm avoidance, perfectionism, impulsivity. So there's a variety of personality traits that could also be associated. So we think of it like the perfect storm of factors coming together often there's that underlying genetic component. And then there's these environmental and temperamental factors as well, which trigger the eating disorder to develop.

JD Kalmenson:

Wow. So would you say a hundred percent of the time eating disorders are usually a symptom are a symptom of some other underlying mental health condition, or can they ever present themselves as a completely independent, autonomous behavioral issue?

Jennifer Rollin:

I think they're often a symptom similar to substance use disorder where often first off, I wanna say, of course eating disorders, aren't a choice, right. They’re something that we do not choose to develop. Right. But I like to think of them as a coping mechanism that people use for coping with other things in their life, whether that's past trauma, experiences of oppression, anxiety, or depression. So often they really are that symptom of a storm that's kind of brewing underneath for that person.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. Right. And what would you say is, I know there's some type of debate within the eating disorder community about whether recovery is possible in a complete and absolute way, or whether it's a perpetual journey. I mean, we have that similar debate in chemical dependency recovered versus recovery. I mean, you have the, the AA community, which will you know, advocate for eternally identifying as an addict. And then you have very different schools of thought, which say, no, maybe that was a phase of my life, but I really have moved past that. And I have found closure. What's how, how would you apply that to the eating disorder arena?

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. So I think that full recovery from eating disorder is completely possible. And I think we can't neglect… like we need to be talking about how there are more barriers that exist for more marginalized folks when it comes to recovery. So we don't wanna just say recovery is possible without highlighting that not everyone is on an even playing field when it comes to the recovery process, when it comes to access to treatment, when it comes to the treatment that's received or being believed. So it's important to be talking about that. And but I do think that full recovery and not dealing with the eating disorder anymore is completely possible and attainable.

JD Kalmenson:

That's powerful. I mean, that, that, that, you know, that is very, that is light at the end of the tunnel.

Jennifer Rollin:

Absolutely. And I think it's important to help, to instill hope, because I know when I was struggling with an eating disorder, if someone told me that I could never recover that I would always be in recovery. I think that would've been tough for me to stay motivated. Yeah. 

JD Kalmenson:

People who go to treatment it's because their functionality is so paralyzed and crippled that they really can't live life as they would like to hold down a job or relationship, et cetera. But there's probably such a huge swath of the population that has an extremely unhealthy relationship with food. And yet they maintain their functionality. Unlike other areas of behavioral health, where it's, you know, it's impossible really to be dependent on a drug dependent on a mind altering substance over a long period of time and hold it together. I mean, some people manage the impossible, but largely speaking, it is impossible. With eating disorders on the other hand, there's probably, and tell me if I'm wrong, such a significant percentage of the population that are not even aware that they have an incredibly toxic and destructive relationship with food and they manage to hold it together, not to not lose enough weight where there are major acute medical concerns, but nonetheless, a lot of the underlying issues are there for them. 

Jennifer Rollin:

You're so right. And I think it's incredibly dangerous. This concept of like high functioning with an eating disorder, because often these people are experiencing these negative impacts on their life, but they're able to quote unquote function in certain areas of their life. They think that their eating disorder isn't that significant, whereas they might actually be really struggling. And so I think that that concept can be really dangerous for people. 

JD Kalmenson:

Eating disorders seem to be on the rise, especially with adolescents, especially with social media, especially because society is glorifying the body more and more. And that pressure is all the more prevalent. And it's almost like we're giving you a nod and saying, yeah, go ahead and pursue this dangerous behavior, even though it might kill you.

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think that's one of the challenges of eating disorder recovery is recovering into a world full of diet culture, anti-fat bias, and idolizing the thin ideal, where, like you said, so many people are being praised for weight loss or for changing their body. And it gives a really harmful message and that praise can be really intoxicating for someone with an eating disorder, for them to continue in their like unhealthy behaviors in a way that, that, like you said, might not be the case with other mental illnesses. Nobody's idolizing somebody who's depressed and can't get out of bed. But for somebody whose eating disorder causes their body to change, they might be receiving a lot of praise, which can be so hard when then professionals tell them that they need to let go of what they were doing.

JD Kalmenson:

Yeah. Such mixed messages.

Jennifer Rollin:

Right.

JD Kalmenson:

I mean even coming from parents, you know, absolutely parents wanting these, these unhealthy standards. I, I, you know, I was looking at the, there was a car in front of me a few weeks ago and there was a bumper sticker on the back that said “too dumb for New York, too ugly for LA.” And it's like, locally, we really feel this diet culture very strongly. 

Jennifer Rollin:

Absolutely.

JD Kalmenson:

You know, the Grinch character, the evil character. So there was a big bull billboard on one of the local streets here where the Grinch was saying he had like a, you know, “shhh” imagery and it said, “I slipped some gluten in your smoothie.” And it's like, that's the obsession that really leads people off the edge, especially those who are suffering from a lot of underlying mental health challenges to begin with.

Jennifer Rollin:

Right. And then to recover from an eating disorder, it really involves going against the grain of these super prominent messages. Right. So people might feel like they're quote unquote, doing something wrong in recovery, because they're doing the opposite of what that billboard or what these people on TV are telling them they should do. So I think it adds another layer of challenge to the recovery process.

JD Kalmenson:

Yes. For those who haven't suffered from reading disorder personally, can you give us a little bit of insight? What feelings of relief, what feelings of adrenaline, somebody who will restrict, who will binge chew, purge, are feeling when they're going through that? What is the dopamine? What's the allure? 

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. So I think the allure is, like I said before, it's not a choice and it can sometimes be a maladaptive coping mechanism. So for a lot of clients, what they'll say is, you know, I felt an emotion and then I felt like I couldn't cope with that emotion, or I didn't wanna feel that feeling. And so I turned to food or I turned away from food or I turned to exercise. And so similar to a substance, it can be kind of a numbing type of behavior. It can also produce a little bit of that high for some people like it, there is like a reward pathway in the brain that's activated for people who have restrictive eating disorders for instance. And so, yeah, there there's that very real high that people can receive from using eating disorder behaviors. There's that numbing feeling often with binge eating people will talk about wanting to feel comforted, wanting to feel numb. So those are some common feelings associated with binge eating. So I think, like I said, at the end of the day, it's ultimately a coping mechanism that people are using to try to cope with difficult emotions with past trauma, with other things in their life. 

JD Kalmenson:

Right. Numbing, distracting oneself from one's self.

Jennifer Rollin:

Right. and there can sometimes also be a feeling of like this false sense of control yes. With certain eating disorders. And it's this feeling of, it's not true, but it's this false feeling of, oh, I'm in control because I'm not eating as much as them, or I weigh less than them, or I'm eating in this certain kind of way. It's this very false feeling, similar to OCD of, if I engage in this compulsion, then I'm in control. Whereas what we know as professionals is that the deeper someone is in their eating disorder, the less they're actually in control and empowered in their life, but it's this very fake feeling. And also sometimes people will describe an eating disorder as feeling like their best friend or like their only friend, similar to substance use disorder, where the eating disorder becomes their like companion and edges out other relationships.

JD Kalmenson:

So in that sense, I I'm assuming that being in control is really geared towards the anorexia diagnosis and not towards binge eating because obviously people don't feel in control when they're binge eating.

Jennifer Rollin:

Yes, that's correct. Often, and this isn't always the case, but often anorexia is an eating disorder that feels more ego syntonic, and it's more socially praised sometimes at least in the initial stages, whereas someone's struggling with binge eating disorder often there's this feeling of distress around the binge eating. It's like, make it stop. I feel so uncomfortable. I feel so out of control, right. Versus somebody with anorexia might be more likely to say like, don't take this away from me. Right. And again, I'm making, speaking in generalities because everyone's eating disorder is so unique, but that's just like a broad-brush stroke of how it might exhibit.

JD Kalmenson:

And that makes so much sense. And you talk about control. It's not just control that I eat less than the next person, but it's also that I'm able to control my hunger pains and I'm able to ultimately do what I want to do. And I would imagine that for somebody who has experienced trauma, specifically trauma that would make one feel weak and powerless, then somehow reinstating this illusion that I'm in control would be their way of coping with those feelings of hopelessness and, and vulnerability and weakness.

Jennifer Rollin:

A hundred percent. And it might also be a numbing behavior. There is a statistic where they talk about up to 80% of people with eating disorders, experience, symptoms of post-traumatic stress. And so sometimes the behaviors are also a way that people are trying to numb out from those symptoms of post-traumatic stress, such as hypervigilance. but completely what you described about the trauma felt very out my control. And now this is how I feel in control. This is how I feel safe in my body is by restricting my food intake for instance. 

JD Kalmenson:

Right. I mean, I'm thinking out loud, right? So when you're dealing with mental primary mental health issues, depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, et cetera. So sometimes there could be a neurological chemical imbalance that gets treated by purely psychiatric intervention or by noninvasive neurological intervention, like the transcranial magnetic stimulation or ketamine or neuro biofeedback. And you might not ever need the additional component of talk therapy of integration because the issue is primarily a chemical imbalance. But eating disorder in a very funny way has so many parallels the way I see it to chemical dependency in the sense that regardless of what your primary mental health diagnosis might be, for example, let's say somebody is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, and that leads them to an eating disorder. Even if they can treat the depression and anxiety psychiatrically, they will still need an eating disorder specialist to help them integrate this newfound equilibrium or wellness, or to somehow wean off of these behaviors, like with a drug of choice with substance abuse, it's really a separate behavioral component that has to be integrated into whatever the, primary mental health intervention was. 

Jennifer Rollin:

Absolutely. Because like I said, you have to be treating both the underlying issues as well as the presenting symptoms. If you ignore one, you have a problem. So if you just treat the underlying depression and ignore the eating disorder, typically it's not gonna go away on its own. Typically it requires that intervention because it can become so ingrained in habitual, especially over time, the longer someone's in an eating disorder, it starts to become the norm similar to someone with substance use disorder, right? It's like, I wake up, I have a drink. It's like, I wake up, I restrict and that's just my way of being. And so it really needs to be unlearned and kind of deprogrammed, if that makes sense. 

JD Kalmenson:

That makes so much sense. You know, talking about parallels between eating disorder and substance abuse, I'm very familiar with the phenomena of folks who just hit rock bottom in the substance abuse arena and domain, whether that's the loss of a job, a spouse, a child, or this or that, some just really debilitating life circumstance, rock bottom is hit, and they never go to treatment. They just, they just really kick it off. Do you have any type of a parallel in the eating disorder or there is no rock-bottom equivalency, and you really just have to seek professional help?

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. I mean, I think the rock bottom idea can be a little bit dangerous when it comes to eating disorders because often people never feel that they're sick enough. That's a common eating disorder symptom is feeling like you're not sick enough. You don't deserve treatment. And similar to sometimes the substance use disorder, like someone might feel like they hit a bottom with their eating disorder that prompts them to seek treatment. But then there are plenty of people for whom the bottom would be death. And that would be it for them where they would never hit that point. And so it's better for them to just seek out treatment, even if they feel that they haven't hit their quote unquote bottom.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. So you don't see very often folks who are suffering from eating disorder self-regulate and naturally wean off of it without professional intervention.

Jennifer Rollin:

I think they can. And that's certainly possible. I think it's harder often without professional support. But I think that the person has to be very motivated. It has to be using the resources that they can find it's certainly possible. I just think it's really helpful if people are able to access it, to have that added layer of professional support versus doing it on your own. Right.

JD Kalmenson:

Right. Has technology changed our care protocols? In other words, do you feel that telehealth and virtual care is effective reading disorders?

Jennifer Rollin:

I think it's incredibly effective. And I see that in my practice, we're all telehealth and we have been throughout the pandemic and we're starting to have, I think at least one person who will be back in the office, but we found that it's just as effective and that people can still recover via telehealth. And that there's also some benefits to it where you can see what's in somebody's fridge because you're in their home where you can eat a meal with somebody and they can cook it while you're there over telehealth. You know, they can do an exposure with clothing because they're in their closet. Right. So it's sometimes nice to be able to be in the person's house. And I also think it can be regulating for clients, you know, if they have a pet there in their house or something that feels comfortable, I think there are some benefits of telehealth even over in person in that regard. 

JD Kalmenson:

Right. And they are also in their house. They have that comfort.

Jennifer Rollin:

Exactly. Yeah. 

JD Kalmenson: 

Right. So adolescences we, we are reading about this all the time in the news that adolescent eating disorder is on the rise. What would offhand, would you say that most people who end up developing eating disorder, does that happen at the adolescent age or it's equally split? They can get it at, at 30 and 40 and 50, just as much as an adolescence. 

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah. I think it can happen at any age. Eating disorders really don't discriminate, but I think there's the stereotype in the media that it primarily affects adolescence. So it can impact people of all ages 

JD Kalmenson:

And is the treatment different based on the age, the demographic is the effectiveness different based on the age and the demographic?

Jennifer Rollin:

The treatment is different. I think with adolescents and again, it's, so treatment is so tailored to each person. So I'm just speaking in generalities, but with adolescent, we might involve the family more and do more family based treatment informed approach. So that's a way that the treatment differs from working with a teen versus working with an adult. And there's some research that shows that early intervention is really helpful and that when people seek treatment earlier, of course, that can lead to better outcomes. That being said, I think it's so important. You know, I've worked with clients who have struggled with eating disorders for 15 years who have been able to recover. So I don't wanna discourage anyone who says, oh, well, I'm not, I've been struggling a long time. I shouldn't seek help. Then it's so important to seek help. It's just, the research shows that like obviously the earlier we can intervene the better.

JD Kalmenson:

If somebody does end up developing an eating disorder at a much later stage in life, it would probably be because of environmental, social, and circumstances, rather than hereditary. Would you say that that's true? 

Jennifer Rollin:

I think it can still be both. Cuz when you think about it, it could be that you have the underlying genetic component, but it just hasn't been expressed because you haven't had the environmental factors. So let's say I have a grandmother who had a eating disorder. I have the underlying genetic component and let's say I'm later in life and my children have just left home and I'm an empty nester and I'm feeling lonely and depressed and outta control. And so I go on a diet to try to feel more quote unquote control and it develops into an eating disorder because I had that underlying genetic component, but I just hadn't had the environmental stressors come out that caused it to develop until later in life. 

JD Kalmenson:

Wow. That is interesting. Right. Because it, it could be a combination of hereditary and circumstances and they come together only at a later point in, in, in your life.

Jennifer Rollin:

Exactly. Yeah.

JD Kalmenson:

What advice would you give for parents? I mean, we talk about preventative treatment, right? How to raise kids with healthy relationships with foods. I mean how to raise healthy kids, I guess as well, so that they shouldn't have any of those stress inducers or any of those attachment issues that might lead to some of these challenges. But what as, you know, if you had to give some, you know, a couple of tips to parents, what would that look like?

Jennifer Rollin:

Sure. So I think not talking about food as good or bad around kids and not making negative comments about your body or other people's bodies just in general, but also around children can be important. I would also say working on your own relationship to food and body, so seeking therapy for yourself so that you're not modeling unhealthy behaviors or attitudes in front of your kids and that's not to shame or blame anyone, cuz like I said, people don't choose to struggle with eating disorder, but using that as motivation of like I wanna get well, so I can demonstrate this for my kids. Like what, having a healthy relationship to food and body looks like. And then I would also say reading the intuitive eating book and really starting to embody the principles, talking about things like diet culture and anti-fat bias in your home and educating kids early can be positive. So I think those can be some protective factors of like doing psychoeducation for yourself and then passing that along to your children in a kid friendly way. Because I think many of us were raised in homes where there was diet culture and our parents didn't know better. Right. And they talked about food as good or bad or they were constantly on diets and that sends a message to kids that like weight gain is something we need to fear. And that's a harmful message that can be really triggering towards kids.

JD Kalmenson:

For sure. I mean, we, it, it would seem that more eating disorder community are those who struggle with eating disorders tend to be more predominantly female than male. Is there a yeah. Is, do you have a, is there a statistic or is there some type of consensus on that?

Jennifer Rollin:

I would say that actually people of all genders can struggle, and I've worked with men with eating disorders, but I think there are more women presenting to treatment than other genders. And I think part of that is because of the shame and stigma and that men or people of other genders think, well, this is something that happens only to women. So I can't possibly struggle with an eating disorder. I'm not gonna seek treatment. And in fact, you know, sometimes people of other genders seek therapy for another issue and then the therapist says, oh, you also have like an eating disorder or something going on with your relationship to food. So I think we don't have a good, accurate gauge of statistically how many people who aren't female identifying struggle because there's so much like shame and secrecy surrounding it. So people are less likely to get help in treatment. 

JD Kalmenson: 

Fascinating. So how, if, if you had a magical wand and you can change something legislatively or culturally or nationally, what would it be to really help with the landscape of eating disorder right now, and to, you know, make treatment more available or more effective? What, what would that look like? How would you, what would you like to see in the future for the eating disorder world? 

Jennifer Rollin:

Yeah, I would say that I wish that there were more eating disorder professionals out there. I think that there are more people struggling and not always enough professionals. And that's why I founded the eating disorder center to have a bunch of eating disorder therapists. But I think certainly that as well as expanding access to care would be another one. And in general, just attitudes around anti-fat bias in society and how that can play into people's experiences of eating disorder. So I think there's a lot that needs to change ultimately. 

JD Kalmenson: 

Is there any country in the world that you feel like has really done it, right? Do you feel like this disorder is different and is has, you know, either greater numbers or lesser numbers or is treated worse or better in different countries or it's, it's a pretty universal phenomenon?

Jennifer Rollin:

I think it's pretty universal, but I think actually the United States has a lot of eating disorder treatment compared to, The Center has seen people reach out from other countries where they can't find one eating disorder specialist locally or eating disorders aren't talked about. So I actually think the United States has better eating disorder care than other places where it's like even more stigmatized and there are fewer providers is what I've seen.

JD Kalmenson:

Wow. That's been so helpful. Thank you so much, Jennifer, for joining us on the Discover U podcast, we truly appreciate the time that you took to share this really amazing insight with us and the audience. How can people find out more about you and the work that you do?

Jennifer Rollin:

Sure. So they can check out my website and reach out that way. It's www.theeatingdisordercenter.com. 

JD Kalmenson:

That's awesome. And thank you audience for joining us too. I hope you enjoy today's episode of Discover U. At Montare, we want you to know that you are not alone on your journey. And to find out more about our innovative treatment programs, you can find us @monteerbh.com and you can listen to our Discover U podcast on Apple, on Spotify, iTunes, wherever you get your podcasts. Wishing all of you vibrant health, and a safe and fulfilling day. See you next time.