Beyond the Algorithm: Mari Smith on Social Media Psychology & The Human Design System

In this episode of Discover U, join host JD Kalmenson as he and Mari discuss the psychological impact of social media algorithms and how they are psychologically designed to keep us hooked with unpredictable content. 

They explore signs of hope that society may be reaching what author Arthur Brooks calls a "Peak Addiction Point" with devices and is beginning to seek real, offline connection. Mari offers an introduction to the Human Design system, a tool she describes as a fusion of ancient wisdom—like astrology and the I-Ching—and modern science, such as quantum physics and genetics, to reveal one's unique genetic imprint. She outlines the four main energy types—Generators, Manifestors, Projectors, and Reflectors—that help people understand how they are designed to show up in the world. 

The conversation also covers how to tune into your body's wisdom to make decisions that are correct for you, rather than letting your "monkey mind" take over. To learn more about Mari Smith, visit her website at marismith.com.

Follow JD at JDKalmenson.com

Transcript

00;00;02;15 - 00;00;26;16
JD Kalmenson
Welcome to another episode of Discover U, our podcast exploring innovative solutions to issues in mental health. I'm JD Kalmenson CEO of Montare Behavioral Health, a family of treatment centers in Southern California and Arizona. We're here at the Emerging Themes Conference, catching up with some of the amazing innovators who are reshaping mental health treatment with breakthroughs and new approaches.

00;00;26;18 - 00;00;59;05
JD Kalmenson
Today's guest is a true pioneer at the intersection of technology, psychology, and personal transformation. Often referred to as the Queen of Facebook, Mari Smith is widely known as a top social media thought leader. With nearly two decades of experience helping businesses and individuals thrive online. Beyond her mastery of digital platforms, Mari has spent the past several years deeply studying the Human Design system, a powerful tool for cell for understanding and potential use cases in mental and emotional health.

00;00;59;07 - 00;01;27;02
JD Kalmenson
In today's conversation, we're going to explore how the psychology of social media impacts our mental health and how the human design system offers a road back to authenticity a roadmap to authenticity, vitality, and resilience. So, Mari, thank you so much for taking the time not only giving such a lovely keynote here at the conference, but for also having this conversation so that our wider listeners can really hear a little bit about the work that you're doing and the human design system.

00;01;27;10 - 00;01;35;13
JD Kalmenson
But let's start from the beginning. You've been in social media probably from its early inception since its inception. Stages. When was that?

00;01;35;15 - 00;01;51;27
Mari Smith
For me, I got on Facebook in 2007, May the 4th, actually. That said, May the force be with you 2007. What I know is a little bit of a hold out because, you know, being around well for college, you know, dreaded email address you could get on in 2004. But I joined the no. Seven.

00;01;52;00 - 00;01;53;28
JD Kalmenson
Yeah, you know, it's going to change your life.

00;01;54;01 - 00;02;16;05
Mari Smith
You know, I actually really did. I actually had this really profound gut response, which I've since discovered is an aspect of my human design. That's that's like my my gut speaking to me. My sacral or sacral is like the energetic response in my body is like, my cells are like just dancing and coming alive. And this felt so vibrant.

00;02;16;05 - 00;02;27;29
Mari Smith
And I had been looking for several years to to just really have, a part of my career. That would really be something that was deeply satisfying. It was a fusion of technology and relationships.

00;02;28;01 - 00;02;29;01
JD Kalmenson
What were you doing before?

00;02;29;08 - 00;02;48;26
Mari Smith
Well, I was I had this double career. I was a relationship coach working with singles and couples. But then I was also an email marketing. Online marketing had write copy, do websites, teach people how to do better email copywriting and email marketing. And I had a mentor once said to me, you can't do both. You have to choose.

00;02;48;26 - 00;02;54;26
Mari Smith
Yeah. And then that's when Facebook landed in my lap and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a fusion of my two loves.

00;02;54;27 - 00;02;55;27
JD Kalmenson
And you realize that right.

00;02;55;27 - 00;02;56;26
Mari Smith
Away I did.

00;02;56;26 - 00;03;05;29
JD Kalmenson
That's a visionary. That's the ability to see Facebook in 2007 and say, I can bridge the gap of the psychology work and the marketing work.

00;03;05;29 - 00;03;06;11
Mari Smith
Yes.

00;03;06;14 - 00;03;14;02
JD Kalmenson
And how long did it take you to figure out the technique of how are you going to actually deploy the vision? Three weeks, three weeks? Incredible.

00;03;14;05 - 00;03;35;00
Mari Smith
I just became like the unofficial evangelist for Facebook. This is before ads, before business pages groups. And it was so simple. And I saw that we could use it. We, you know, my fellow marketers and I, for a networking platform, which typically LinkedIn was for that and where we do a lot of offline networking. But I saw that back in the day.

00;03;35;00 - 00;03;55;07
Mari Smith
Do you remember that term, that movie where the line is, you've got mail, you've got mail? Well, now it was like you've got a dream. And people were genuinely excited to see that someone had reached out on Facebook and they were answering and opening. I'm like, I can reach anybody that I want to do interviews and, you know, joint ventures and people I'd long admired and thought leaders.

00;03;55;07 - 00;03;56;02
JD Kalmenson
Yeah.

00;03;56;04 - 00;03;57;19
Mari Smith
This is going to change everything.

00;03;57;24 - 00;04;05;25
JD Kalmenson
That's, that's that's extraordinary. To be able to see that at the earliest stages and really know where it's heading. And a lot's changed since 2007.

00;04;05;29 - 00;04;06;18
Mari Smith
Big time.

00;04;06;19 - 00;04;24;00
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the immediate service and launching of the sort of consulting work and the marketing work that you started back then, and how it's evolved. Just a high level overview, how it's evolved from 2007 to what you're doing with Facebook and social media today in 2025.

00;04;24;05 - 00;04;48;18
Mari Smith
My bread and butter, if you will, for, you know, revenue and career has always been course creation. So I work with a lot of small business owners, solopreneurs, independent professionals, and I lead cohorts through an online course and teaching them the fundamentals and how to really reach their their clients through social media and through Facebook and Instagram are my two main ones that I focus on.

00;04;48;20 - 00;05;08;29
Mari Smith
And then I also another part of my career is it's public speaking. So I do a lot of events traveling around the country and internationally quite a bit more. Before Covid, it kind of slowed down a bit, which was fine by me because I had my my bread and butter with my courses, which I still do. And then a third aspect, which I have done a lot of over the years is, what's called a brand ambassador.

00;05;08;29 - 00;05;28;07
Mari Smith
So I'd be an evangelist for, for example, a new video tool. And so then I would tell my whole audience online about this cool new video tool and how to use it. And I do educational webinars and drive new leads to, to the, the brand and, you know, get paid very well for it. I was one of my favorite ways actually.

00;05;28;07 - 00;05;29;29
Mari Smith
Wow. To make, money.

00;05;30;00 - 00;05;49;27
JD Kalmenson
So tell me a little bit about the the landscape. Currently, we're all familiar at this point with some of the dangers and, the safety concerns of excessive social media use of the use, especially for adolescents and teenagers. What do you think is the most overarching concern? And maybe you can tell us a little bit about how to deal with it.

00;05;50;02 - 00;05;51;21
JD Kalmenson
And you're from your perspective.

00;05;51;23 - 00;06;16;19
Mari Smith
Yeah. Well, you know, just doing a keynote here, the emerging themes for behavioral health. And it was on social media's impact on our behavioral health with social media addiction or even just device addiction. And I, you know, for many, many months, I've been accumulating a lot of research and observing my own self. And every time I grab my phone and be like, oh, I'm just going to check Facebook for five minutes because, you know, it's my job.

00;06;16;19 - 00;06;40;13
Mari Smith
I need to be up to date. 45 minutes go by. I'm like, oh crap, I've done it again. Have consumed just a bunch of nonsense that the algorithms are feeding me. So it's become extremely, more and much, much more manipulative, controlling. I mean, we're literally being programed what to think. Wow. And so you go to your feeds now and it's no longer even about the friends or the followers.

00;06;40;13 - 00;07;03;23
Mari Smith
We don't really see our friends content. Although Facebook to to their credit, they did bring out a separate little tab that's just a friends feed, but generally speaking, they want us to just get pulled into the main algorithmically programed feed where they have been gathering every new data point in understanding you and your interests and now what they call the interest graph.

00;07;03;25 - 00;07;24;10
Mari Smith
So if you see, you know, one cat video, you'll see more cat videos or in my case Benz and Boone. I just singer I just love them. That's like whoa okay another video events. So it's just it's they're psychologically designed these social platforms to keep people extremely hooked to come back you the dopamine hits your it's unpredictable. So you don't know what you're going to see next.

00;07;24;16 - 00;07;51;04
Mari Smith
The little red notification is like does a number in your brain like I know for me, when I see the little red bubble, somebody, you know need something, so it's just change. And generally speaking, you know, I'm a real feeler and I can feel into the frickin frequency in general of of marketers or small business owners, if some everyday users, they're just fed up, they're tired of being puppets on a string and being manipulated.

00;07;51;11 - 00;07;56;09
Mari Smith
Yeah. Trust is at an all time low. Of course you go, I can go crazy.

00;07;56;14 - 00;08;27;04
JD Kalmenson
You know, we do. We look on a societal level and how polarizing politics is and that how little tolerance we have for opposing viewpoints. Yes. And it's no wonder when your entire sort of orbit of content consumption is strictly being tailored around what you call the interest graph, around an algorithm that is designed to exclusively feed you content that we know from previous searches or previous indications is what you're interested in.

00;08;27;11 - 00;08;53;25
JD Kalmenson
And so we've completely shut out any type of curiosity, any type of opposing content. And then you just don't, you know, you don't have access to it. But through these social media feeds, you know, we talk about the the and the vaccine concept. The vaccine concept is where you get a little bit of the bacteria to build up the resiliency antibodies.

00;08;53;25 - 00;09;03;26
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. The immunity right. And in life I think we need a little bit of content that bacteria to be able to see the world from a bigger perspective. We're not getting that, that's all.

00;09;03;26 - 00;09;27;00
Mari Smith
You're just this filter bubble. There's literally there's Ted talk in a book called yeah, echo chamber filter bubble. And people don't even realize they're in it. Yeah. Like in this fishbowl. You don't know you're in this fishbowl, right? Yeah, I, I have grave concerns about the, you know, really intense social media use right now. And at the same time, I can hold this vision of some glimmers of hope.

00;09;27;02 - 00;09;56;20
Mari Smith
Because, I was recently listening to Professor Arthur Brooks. He's an author of Build a Life. You want strength. That strength was a great podcast. He did on Rich Roll and he was talking about we are now right now at Peak Addiction Point. People are starting to wake up and recognize and especially for kids, there's a beautiful book called, The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Height Industry about this whole generation who've grown up with the phone in their hand and the touch screen.

00;09;56;20 - 00;10;32;00
Mari Smith
And it's rewired their whole brains differently. So we're now at peak addiction point, says Arthur Brooks. And think back to decades ago when everybody smoked. It was just a dancing, especially males. And so then over time, slowly but surely, society starts to go, maybe this is not so good for us. And I believe that we're starting to see that glimmer of hope in the coming years where more and more parents, maybe youngsters, but certainly adults recognizing, gosh, I'm really lonely right now, actually reaching for my phone.

00;10;32;00 - 00;10;51;15
Mari Smith
It's not really the best thing I want to do. And so what I'm seeing emerging, interestingly enough, mostly in Europe, I don't think it's quite made it to the state. But there's a beautiful startup initiative called the Off Line Club. And interesting people are getting together and they're doing art and music and games and just hanging out and read books, not a phone in sight.

00;10;51;18 - 00;10;54;22
Mari Smith
And like, oh, that sounds really nourishing.

00;10;54;23 - 00;11;15;09
JD Kalmenson
Yes. And I wouldn't be surprised if technology itself becomes this part of the solution, where they start to help you regulate your usage, where it's simply not available to use certain apps at certain times. Right. Just really helps you get a sense of control and reclaim a part of your life back as it were.

00;11;15;09 - 00;11;20;20
Mari Smith
Right? Gosh, a little notification. Are you sure you want to check this book for the 400th time?

00;11;20;23 - 00;11;38;13
JD Kalmenson
It's true. I get a notification once a week how much screen time I've used, and that's like my, emotional scale. You know, you've got your physical scale to see how much you weigh, and then you've got those notifications to tell you, like how how are you doing this? If this is scaring you, then maybe next week should look a little different.

00;11;38;15 - 00;11;42;26
JD Kalmenson
Could you tell me about the human design system that you developed?

00;11;42;28 - 00;12;04;27
Mari Smith
Well, I haven't developed it. It came about in 1987. Okay. The founder's name is Robert LaRue. Who? And so we've been around many decades, and it is a beautiful fusion of Eastern and Western astrology, the Chinese etching, the ancient Book of Wisdom, and then the chakras, Kabbalah, and but then also quantum physics, genetics, biology, astronomy.

00;12;04;27 - 00;12;41;21
Mari Smith
It's the most profound system that I've ever come across. And I've studied a lot the Myers-Briggs Enneagram desk, you know, strengths finders, all of these ones that are great at identifying a personality traits. Whereas what the human design system does is really showing you this genetic imprint. How am I genetically designed to show up in the world and use my life force, whether it's, you know, my strengths, my skills, my life purpose, my life theme, what is what are my my true gifts and what's happened is, you know, really from birth, we are, conditioned.

00;12;41;21 - 00;13;01;19
Mari Smith
We get deeply conditioned, you know, moved away from who? From our true essence. So one of the things I love about human design is it's an aspect of self-awareness, self, self and other understanding. So starting with you. Okay, who am I? The generator of two thirds of the world are what are called generator types generator a manifesting generator.

00;13;01;25 - 00;13;21;04
Mari Smith
We have this that's kind of in the the lower belly. This like this Energizer bunny, this access to this energy that that creates life force in the world. We love to be busy, but also busy doing things we love. So there's so many people in the planet, they're just in some kind of a job that doesn't light them up.

00;13;21;07 - 00;13;46;21
Mari Smith
And so, yeah, so the human design system, it can give you this incredible knowledge of, of yourself. But then those around you and then especially as a parent to identify, okay, how I need to treat my children a little bit differently according to their type and nurture their true essence as opposed to what society wants us to do, you know, conform us and get us to fit into certain boxes.

00;13;46;21 - 00;14;08;25
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. That's beautiful. It's so valuable when we don't have to really define a painter, taint ourselves by either the mistakes of yesterday or the perceptions of the people around us. That's really, you know, this connects to what you were just mentioning before, when we're being fed and manipulated, that itself is a.

00;14;08;25 - 00;14;09;20
Mari Smith
Really.

00;14;09;20 - 00;14;42;07
JD Kalmenson
Sort of sinister form of conformism. Yes. And it, it really it raises probably the most precious part of our humanity, our ability to creatively think or to critically think or to think outside of the box and to not necessarily have to buy into our own algorithms of previous thought patterns. And, that's freedom. That's liberty. Right? The moment that we take that out, there's no free press or there's no free, sense of what I'm able to consume or how I'm able to think about myself.

00;14;42;09 - 00;14;58;03
JD Kalmenson
We're conforming. Yeah. And so the human design system is, is a philosophy that is espousing, you're saying the ability to especially you called it the generator. So you said two thirds are generators and manifester. And the other third you would call them what sort of.

00;14;58;05 - 00;15;19;08
Mari Smith
The four types. So the generator slash manifesting generator, there's subtypes of each other. Those are 66%. The second type would be called a manifest or just a manifest. Or they're about 10% of the world. They can be very impactful. They're really here to make a profound impact on the world. And they they're go getters. They will go getter, but they they initiate.

00;15;19;09 - 00;15;42;13
Mari Smith
They're here the ones to start things. And then the generators come and pick up the ball and run with the projectors or in the business term they're known as advisors. They're really here to to 22, 22.5%. They are brilliant one on one. And they're very focused on the other. Very good at directing. The energy of the two thirds of the world has all that generative life force.

00;15;42;19 - 00;15;58;12
Mari Smith
And then the most rare type, which is about 1.5%, is called a reflector. And the reflectors, they evaluate, they sample the world around them. They really, really good at just observing and picking up what's, what's going on around them and reflecting that back to the world.

00;15;58;12 - 00;16;17;26
JD Kalmenson
So very interesting. And this was founded in the 80s. Is it a sort of manual for living or it's more of a philosophy that, you know, once you, once you buy into it, you already are able to apply the lessons in your own sort of way. How how rigid, how defined, how comprehensive is is.

00;16;17;26 - 00;16;39;19
Mari Smith
It is extremely deep body of work. I'm now in my fifth year of studies, and I'm actually taking part of those five years. Is a three and a half year equivalent of a PhD. I'm in the final semester. I'm going to be working on my thesis. There's deeper and deeper layers of the system, and it is based like astrologically, our solar system is the planet is the position of the planets in the sky.

00;16;39;21 - 00;17;08;26
Mari Smith
They proved in the 90s that neutrinos neutrinos is the matter, or gas or breath of the stars. It's emitted because we're all you know, most people know that we're affected by the moon. If we didn't have the moon, we'd probably fall off the planet. And you got the, you know, the waves and whatnot, the tides. But, so the position of each of the planets in our solar system, it makes this genetic imprint because the neutrinos it proved in the 90s actually have mass.

00;17;08;28 - 00;17;28;24
Mari Smith
And so there's, there is infinite attempts to assemble it. It's coming to us and through us. And so we're always being, affected by what's called the program, just the program of the universe or our solar system. And so it's not so much a philosophy as the founder. He he says, you know, don't believe a word I say.

00;17;28;24 - 00;17;47;29
Mari Smith
It's not a belief system. It's not a doctrine. It's not a cult, not a religion. Simply experiment for yourself. Wow. Earlier when I was saying, like my my gut, I tune into my gut. That helps me to make my decisions because I'm very heady. I've got all this intellect and all these thoughts and ideas and and our minds can outsmart us.

00;17;48;01 - 00;18;00;07
Mari Smith
Like you can feel your body like wanting to go a certain way. And. But the mind comes in orbit. Are you sure you've never done it that way before? Or stick for what you know or you know, whatever the thoughts can come in. I call it the monkey mind.

00;18;00;07 - 00;18;01;14
JD Kalmenson
And so.

00;18;01;16 - 00;18;13;10
Mari Smith
Yeah, one of the aspects is to just become more aware of those dominant thoughts and start to draw more into the body, right? And and follow the body's wisdom of right. What's healthy for it?

00;18;13;12 - 00;18;38;04
JD Kalmenson
Very interesting. I think that's such a powerful misconception that so many times we will think a certain thought. And if you don't take the power to be a pause and to really just almost look at the thought from a third party neutral standpoint and say, is this a thought that I enjoy, that I want to identify, that I want to, you know, sort of get behind?

00;18;38;04 - 00;18;58;02
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. Or is this just the thought that could have come from a thousand different reactive, responsive sort of, stimuli? Yeah. But it's not necessarily something that I agree with. There's so much power and freedom in that power of pause just to say, okay, the thought happens to be coming from my brain, but it doesn't have to be aligned with my values.

00;18;58;02 - 00;19;15;13
JD Kalmenson
It doesn't have to be something that I actually keep. You know, there's the famous Jerry Seinfeld, episode where he's talking about the car rental. He made a reservation, and they don't have his car, and they, he says, but I made a reservation and they say, now we have your reservation. We just don't have the car, he says.

00;19;15;15 - 00;19;37;18
JD Kalmenson
So you don't really understand how the reservation works. He says everybody could make a reservation. The trick is to hold the reservation. But you didn't hold the reservation, right? So we all have thoughts. But the trick is that we going to hold it or are we going to release it? And there's tremendous freedom in in going through that process, even though it's so easy and so simple.

00;19;37;21 - 00;19;39;15
JD Kalmenson
But it's, not as common.

00;19;39;16 - 00;20;03;28
Mari Smith
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I could just plus what you said. So there's nine different energy centers in the body, one of which is the head, and the head is where, like our source of inspiration. And for 70, about 70, 75% of the world they have this center is open. So it's like it's not defined to have like a fixed way, of, of their head showing up.

00;20;04;04 - 00;20;26;28
Mari Smith
And so and we've got like aspects in human design we call in the not self, which is akin to the shadow self. And so to your point about the thought, the shadow self of a of an undefined or an open head center is thinking about things that don't matter to me now. They might matter in the world, they might be big global, political, socio economic right.

00;20;26;29 - 00;20;47;17
Mari Smith
But the thoughts just looping in looping and looping. And so I love what you just said about this, you know, not holding the reservation because part of human design is to be able to de condition, go, witness a call witness consciousness or we call it passenger, get in the back seat of the limo. The limo is your body.

00;20;47;19 - 00;20;50;26
Mari Smith
And and just don't let your mind be the driver anymore.

00;20;50;26 - 00;21;10;15
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. It's the most beautiful part of Sherlock Holmes for me. We're in the beginning of the book. He really describes the mind as an attic. And there's a limited space in this attic. And to anything that's not absolutely vital and crucial for your survival, you have to dump. There's no luxury to be a hoarder when we're only playing with an attic.

00;21;10;15 - 00;21;35;10
JD Kalmenson
Yeah, we don't have endless store storage of square footage. And so he had this really unique memory where his memory was completely aligned in the fictional tale with his interests. How amazing would that be? Yeah, if we didn't remember all sorts of things that had no bearing and impact that aren't alive, and we exclusively remember the things that make a difference, we'd be so much more brilliant at our crafts.

00;21;35;10 - 00;21;59;18
JD Kalmenson
We'd never forget the birthdays of the loved ones. Yeah, or their hobbies or their colors that they like and. We would have a really deep sense of alignment and harmony. You know, the fact that we remember things that we don't necessarily care for and we don't remember the things that are important to us. There's a little bit of a divide there where they're not completely on the same page.

00;21;59;18 - 00;22;21;00
JD Kalmenson
And the more we, the more we take ownership over the thought processes and the patterns, what we keep, what we don't keep, what we choose to identify with, whatnot, I just think like, yeah, we're getting we're getting into the driver's seat, you know, the limo, it's nice to be in the back, but it's you. It's even more powerful to be in the front and be able to determine where we're going.

00;22;21;00 - 00;22;22;24
Mari Smith
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00;22;22;27 - 00;22;35;05
JD Kalmenson
So that's really awesome. Tell me a little bit about how the human design system, I know that's something that you're studying. You're writing a thesis on how does it work and does it impact the work that you do in marketing and social media?

00;22;35;06 - 00;23;07;22
Mari Smith
Oh yeah. See now this is interesting. Earlier I was saying when I had that real knowing that Facebook would be my career trajectory in 2007 and me around maybe 2016, 2017, I was starting to feel like some unrest, like I just wasn't as satisfied with my career and I didn't want to give it up. I saw, you know, love what I do, and but I wanted to add something to integrate, to, like, evolve to the next level that I could really make a deeper impact and more transformational.

00;23;07;28 - 00;23;30;17
Mari Smith
And having people wake up and be more aware. And so, for example, the different types, I was explaining the two thirds that are the generative type respond was the got to yes no questions. So for example, in my marketing with my calls to actions are called CTAs. Instead of saying, you know click here, sign up, download now, I'll simply ask a yes no question.

00;23;30;17 - 00;23;50;12
Mari Smith
Would you like to join? Would you like to join? And I just make it so freeing because it's like I've come to just better accept, like I'm not going to force what I want you to do, which a lot of marketing can be quite coercive and manipulative. I'm going to present something to my audience and I'm like, if it's correct for, you know, would you like to join us?

00;23;50;12 - 00;24;12;04
Mari Smith
Or, you know, I'd love to invite you, that kind of thing. So just making that shift and then for me personally, is using my what works called inner authority is the, the circle, the gut for me. And to just tune into myself and see is my energy, like expanding like for me, a true body wisdom? Yes. Is is like a magnetic pool.

00;24;12;08 - 00;24;28;28
Mari Smith
And it could be just something on my screen, the email invitation to be on a podcast and or to speak in a van or whatever the case might be. And I can now, like I in my fifth year of studies, I can just I feel that energetic expansion and rising. Conversely when it's when it's a no and it's a body wisdom.

00;24;28;28 - 00;24;43;09
Mari Smith
No. I will show a little bit of a repelling. I can feel what my my cells start to contract a little bit, and sometimes it's a bit imperceptible because the mind will quickly come in and go, oh, but you can't say no. You know, you said the last, yeah, last time. And you know, you have to be nice.

00;24;43;09 - 00;24;46;18
Mari Smith
You have to be very interesting. This stuff comes in. Yes.

00;24;46;20 - 00;25;15;12
JD Kalmenson
I love that. I think that so many of our feelings of discontent, angst, depression, anxiety, a lot of them have to do with chemical. A lot of them have to do with circumstantial, but there is a good degree of them that just is an internal sort of cognitive dissonance, where the thoughts that we're thinking, the decisions that we're making, are not following the sort of intrinsic physiological sensations that tell us that indicate whether we feel good about it or we don't feel good about it.

00;25;15;14 - 00;25;38;02
JD Kalmenson
You know, as much as we're so passionate about investing in our bodies, whether it's in the gym or whether it's in supplements or it's hard with our nutritionists, we're not really taking the time to connect emotionally with our bodies. Right there is the physiological, physiological sensation and health of the body. But there's the emotional health of the body.

00;25;38;02 - 00;25;52;17
JD Kalmenson
I'm not even referring to the psychology, just listening to the body. And that's the type of stuff that you start to only hear when you take a moment to listen. Yeah, you listen to the book. What is the body telling me about this food? I know my eyes are telling me that this food is delicious. What is my body?

00;25;52;17 - 00;25;53;10
JD Kalmenson
Tell me about the food.

00;25;53;11 - 00;25;55;01
Mari Smith
So good. You're so on point.

00;25;55;01 - 00;25;59;07
JD Kalmenson
What is. What have my body tell me about the company of these people.

00;25;59;09 - 00;26;00;29
Mari Smith
Exactly, exactly.

00;26;00;29 - 00;26;18;00
JD Kalmenson
You know Jerry Seinfeld I it's so funny I, I never quote him but like it just happens to be that I watched another interview of his with Barry Weiss and he was talking about New York City. Happens to be I grew up in Connecticut. I'm not a big fan of New York City, but there are certain people who are diehard New York City people.

00;26;18;00 - 00;26;36;01
JD Kalmenson
They can't imagine living anywhere else in New York City. I like the real New York was like, I can't even imagine going south of 40s, you know, they have it all broken down into this little orbit, this little world, in reality, this planet. And he was saying that there is for him just a frequency in the air that drives so well.

00;26;36;01 - 00;27;05;25
JD Kalmenson
He's alive. Obviously, I feel that way. But in certain parts of the world, you know, I'm there the moment I get off the plane and I'm just walking around. It's a combination of so many things the energy of the air, the people, whether it's the mountains or it's the ocean or it's the history, whatever it is, there's a frequency in the air that when it really aligns with your spirit, your physiology, your existence, there is a increased state of alacrity.

00;27;05;25 - 00;27;22;22
JD Kalmenson
We're just more alive. You know, we could all experience that. There are days where we've got some brain fog and our we're not completely alive, and our days were just sharper. We're with it and we're fully alive. And so they're also knowing the places in the world, only the times of the day, whether you're a night person or a morning person.

00;27;22;22 - 00;27;25;24
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. Just listening to the body. When is the body most alive? This is.

00;27;25;24 - 00;27;46;28
Mari Smith
So good. You are speaking the deeper layers of the human design system, because we can see it in the genetics. There's your correct environment. There's how your body, Jeanette, is genetically predisposed to digest food, to take it in. Like, for me, it's a low sound environment. I know that when I go, I can't digest properly if it's super noisy or sports bar or just chaos.

00;27;46;28 - 00;28;10;16
Mari Smith
I like my body is very like Zen and I have in the past I have been, you know, in really loud environments and also natural shores. So on the edge of a lake or, you know, a beach or shore. I grew up on the lake, but but I just recently moved from San Diego a couple of years ago now, and I'm in Ashland, Oregon, right on a lake, and the Pete and I go to see the eye and I just go, whoa, what was that?

00;28;10;19 - 00;28;28;18
Mari Smith
Was that, you know, a goose or, a coyote? And we off in the distance, and it's like all I can hear, and I'm like, just so, like, more dropped into my body. Whereas other people, like you said, their environment might be loud, right? Or it might be the hustle and bustle of of a city or urban. Yeah.

00;28;28;19 - 00;28;29;18
Mari Smith
Brings them alive.

00;28;29;19 - 00;28;32;14
JD Kalmenson
The sometimes for some people, the stillness is disconcerting.

00;28;32;14 - 00;28;34;07
Mari Smith
Yes, yes.

00;28;34;10 - 00;28;38;28
JD Kalmenson
I know people who will be in the kitchen and they'll just turn the radio on. They don't want to hear the radio. They just don't want the quiet.

00;28;38;28 - 00;28;40;07
Mari Smith
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;28;40;09 - 00;29;06;28
JD Kalmenson
And so that's the part of life, the human design system, I mean, interestingly enough, to just go full circle with everything we've been talking about. No amount of algorithms, no amount of Silicon Valley sophistication can tell me what my body can tell me about myself. So that's why, you know something? All the algorithms and all the most incredible, innovative features that have transformed our lives dramatically with so much more convenience and ease.

00;29;07;00 - 00;29;10;01
JD Kalmenson
Silicon Valley has not cracked the code for dating.

00;29;10;03 - 00;29;11;03
Mari Smith
For dating.

00;29;11;08 - 00;29;22;18
JD Kalmenson
For marriage, for in depth intimate relationships, because that's the type of thing that you have to listen to yourself. Yeah, not about what algorithms or what hobbies or the checklist.

00;29;22;24 - 00;29;23;09
Mari Smith
Yeah.

00;29;23;10 - 00;29;32;04
JD Kalmenson
Will not determine the synergy of this checklist. Chemistry that will not determine the chemistry. The chemistry is just something you got to listen to internally.

00;29;32;06 - 00;29;32;19
Mari Smith
Yeah.

00;29;32;19 - 00;29;36;00
JD Kalmenson
So that is a very interesting intersection.

00;29;36;02 - 00;30;06;25
Mari Smith
Yeah. And just to add one more little piece about the emotions you were talking earlier about emotions and feelings, I've said numerous times about I know for me my decision making process, my authority is my my circle. The most common inner authority body wisdom decisions is is called emotional. It's the solar plexus. It's almost half the world. And so they have more of, waves, consistent waves of emotion, emotion, energy and motion flowing through the body.

00;30;06;27 - 00;30;21;10
Mari Smith
And so important to allow laws to allow. Oh, I'm up on my wave. Oh, I'm a little bit low on my wave. And they're not here to make fast decisions. The world. Come on, come on, come on. You need to decide. No. And you might. Oh, yeah. I feel great about it. Yeah. I'm not so sure about it.

00;30;21;10 - 00;30;41;00
Mari Smith
I feel great about. And so then giving yourself that time. And I encourage people that I'm talking to my, my students and people that come to my classes now with human design, it's like when they learn that their inner authority is the solar plexus, the seed of the emotional intelligence. You start practicing saying to people, I'm going to need some time.

00;30;41;02 - 00;30;49;21
Mari Smith
When do you need to know by can I get back to I need to sleep on it and you can see them just like drop their shoulders and go, oh, I can do that. Yeah.

00;30;49;24 - 00;31;12;28
JD Kalmenson
Okay. So true. I, I, you know, it's so funny how so much of what you're saying, I, the truths of it are so evident. And for years I've been either thinking, talking about it, but just using other language. I'll give you an example. This entire sort of worldview for me has always been summed up in a line what not why?

00;31;13;00 - 00;31;13;16
Mari Smith


00;31;13;18 - 00;31;42;20
JD Kalmenson
Ask what not why I will ask ourselves, why do I feel this way? The why, in a very sneaky, subliminal manner, intertwines the feeling with me because it's saying, the feeling that I have is something that I have to back up. It's got me all written all over it. So why am I feeling this way? As opposed to what am I feeling?

00;31;42;23 - 00;32;00;13
JD Kalmenson
If I ask, what am I feeling? Then I can start to view it a little bit more objectively, a little bit more neutrally, without that level of subjective intertwine ment. So I'm not going to have to be enmeshed in it if the feeling is something I really don't appreciate or approve of. You know, the deer. The famous analogy.

00;32;00;13 - 00;32;25;28
JD Kalmenson
The deer takes the path every day to the riverbed, and then one day the tree falls over the path, and now the path is split, is littered with sprinkles or splinters of wood, which, if the deer were continue to take the same path, it could hurt itself. So the deer assesses the situation and it sees that the path is perilous should it take a different path.

00;32;25;28 - 00;32;47;26
JD Kalmenson
But this is the only path it knows, and it's well-worn, and it continues in a flash of impulsivity, and it gets hurt. A casual outside observer can say, why don't you care about your hopes? Why are you reckless? And that why only reinforces whatever negative sort of attribute we're attributing to the deer.

00;32;47;27 - 00;32;49;03
Mari Smith


00;32;49;05 - 00;33;13;19
JD Kalmenson
But what would be the more appropriate question, which is what caused you to impulsively take the path that you took. Even though you knew that there were splinters which can harm you? And the answer to the what is maybe the deer defaulted to its previous sort of conduct. Yeah. And didn't have enough of a thoughtful analytical process before it went ahead with the decision.

00;33;13;21 - 00;33;31;20
JD Kalmenson
So it wasn't necessarily that there was an interest in self-sabotage and recklessness and didn't care about its hopes. It was just that it had a problem. It defaulted into what it was comfortable with too quickly to even think the process through. That's a simple analogy with an animal. We in our treatment world, we deal with that all the time.

00;33;31;20 - 00;33;55;21
JD Kalmenson
When a client relapses, spent 90 days in treatment, three months back at home and into their job, things got a little stressful. There was a trigger. They met the dealer. Whatever the circumstances may have been, they relapsed. The casual outside observer says. Why did you relapse? The worst question you could ask the why says that whatever led you to relapse is in part of your destiny.

00;33;55;26 - 00;34;30;29
JD Kalmenson
It's an indelible part of your decision making. Maybe everything that you did up until now was false, maybe wasn't sincere. It was definitely an effective step. You ask what happened here? There could be a lot of helpful and constructive answers to that. What the. What is that? I didn't utilize my coping mechanisms that I was taught about when I did experience a stressor and a trigger, the what may have been that I was in a circumstantial setting where I didn't have what it takes to really rise above the challenge.

00;34;30;29 - 00;34;36;16
JD Kalmenson
But maybe the wisdom is I don't have to put myself in that circumstantial setting. That's so true. The what allows me to move.

00;34;36;16 - 00;34;37;03
Mari Smith
On, that's.

00;34;37;03 - 00;34;53;24
JD Kalmenson
Really the why makes it a part of me forever. And the power of pause is what allows you to distinguish between the why and the what. I think it was Thomas Friedman who said, you press pause at a machine and the machine stops. When you press pause on the human being, it starts.

00;34;53;26 - 00;34;55;21
Mari Smith
Oh, that's really good.

00;34;55;23 - 00;35;10;15
JD Kalmenson
So that's that's it. And I'm hearing so much of that truth in what you're describing with the human design system. Yeah. The power of false. Because all of the philosophy in the world is, is, is great in theory, but not practice. If we don't actually have that power of force.

00;35;10;15 - 00;35;29;18
Mari Smith
Yeah. And a lot of people are very out of sync and out of tune with their bodies. And especially, as I've mentioned earlier, with the emotional ones, those middle 80 the other week there that had had a really difficult journey with some kidney and bladder issues, which are associated with that particular energy center of the emotional energy Center.

00;35;29;21 - 00;35;46;00
Mari Smith
And it was so cute because she was a mother and a daughter that had come to me, and she said that she was like, envious of her daughter's more kind of cool emotions. And it's like you could see that she just she didn't want to experience these really intense highs and lows of. And I'm like, yeah, you're do you have that?

00;35;46;00 - 00;36;01;24
Mari Smith
That's that's your gift, you know. That's right dear. Insert let it flow. Don't judge it because the mind will come in and go, oh my God, it feeling so intense. I can feel that when you start squashing it and putting a lid on it, it's like trying to hold a beach ball underwater, you know. Right. Your hands start trembling and it pops.

00;36;01;24 - 00;36;24;25
JD Kalmenson
That's sustainable. Yeah. You know, it's so true. Is that in the world of Babel health and the world of clinicians. So somatic experience, which is, you know, the body keeps the score of the famous book that's really highlighting how the trauma resides in the body. And you have to listen to the body to be able to release it.

00;36;24;27 - 00;36;48;23
JD Kalmenson
And for the body to sort of recalibrate and, restore the normal state of its nervous system. But that is obviously true in a clinical sense when you're dealing with somebody who's got it, a traumatic event that ends up being stored somewhere in the body. But you don't only have to listen to the body when something terrible happened.

00;36;48;25 - 00;37;08;28
JD Kalmenson
We have to be able to listen to the body on a normal, regular day to day basis. It's true. Yes. I mean, take eating, for example. The classic syndrome of overeating is because we don't listen to the enzymes. We don't listen to the the messaging that our stomach is giving us, partially because it's a little delayed, but also partially because our we're eating with our eyes.

00;37;08;28 - 00;37;26;24
JD Kalmenson
We're eating with our mind. Yeah. So now, my wife has this great rule. She says, if I'm feeling 60% full, I know that I'm really 100% full. It's just going to take time. Oh, yeah. So we stop at 60 as opposed to start stopping at 100? Yes. And then we're 140. Resentful.

00;37;26;27 - 00;37;29;28
Mari Smith
Yeah. That's get.

00;37;30;00 - 00;37;34;17
JD Kalmenson
So it's just really being able to engage through the body and listening. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

00;37;34;23 - 00;37;47;12
Mari Smith
You know my dad was a professional baker. So I grew up in a bakery and I did I have a pension for baked goods. I just watch myself going, oh, cookies, cakes. And then I'm like, you know. Oh, a comfort food.

00;37;47;15 - 00;37;47;25
JD Kalmenson
Yeah, my.

00;37;47;25 - 00;37;48;19
Mari Smith
Name of my child.

00;37;48;19 - 00;37;49;08
JD Kalmenson
Of course.

00;37;49;08 - 00;37;49;18
Mari Smith
I'm going to.

00;37;49;18 - 00;37;51;06
JD Kalmenson
Regret that. Where was the bakery?

00;37;51;08 - 00;37;52;22
Mari Smith
It was in BC, Canada time.

00;37;52;22 - 00;37;53;25
JD Kalmenson
Oh, nice.

00;37;53;28 - 00;37;55;05
Mari Smith
A little place in Canada.

00;37;55;07 - 00;38;08;04
JD Kalmenson
Yeah. That's lovely. So, I heard that, you know, you speak at hundreds of venues and conferences, but this one at Emerging Famous was of a particular milestone nature to you. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

00;38;08;06 - 00;38;30;08
Mari Smith
Oh, absolutely. Because I'm so grateful to Renee, my longtime friend Renee, bearable for the invitation because I realized it was really and she's very intuitive. And she just said, you know, I intuitively knew there was you've got this career evolution coming and it's not like a pivot because I'm managing. I'm managing my audience's response. I don't want them to think, oh my God, she's no longer doing any social media.

00;38;30;08 - 00;38;50;06
Mari Smith
All right, well, go hire a different social media expert because it's like this, this evolution. And we'll see. I'm just going to trust my body to see what where does it want to go next. But, it's just been so refreshing to come to the emerging themes in behavioral health. I've attended practically all the sessions that I could, and there's a couple more to go in this afternoon.

00;38;50;06 - 00;39;18;10
Mari Smith
And, I knew some of the folks here, brothers Corin, have been longtime friends of mine, beautiful souls, and it's just been so refreshingly stimulating to me on, on, on all levels. You know, my heart, my body, my soul, my mind and different from my regular conference where it's rooms full of marketers and, in just in a bit more, probably a bit more in their head, just like figuring out what's the next I tool and how can I make my life easier and make more money and get more leads?

00;39;18;10 - 00;39;26;14
Mari Smith
You get more customers, which is an aspect of it, but there's not a lot of real, true embodiment. And, you know, talking about the health of the mind.

00;39;26;14 - 00;39;45;23
JD Kalmenson
And yeah, I love that and I love that about this conference. There's intellectual curiosity. There's an aspiration for how can I broaden my horizons, how can I do what I do even better? Yeah. And, that is very special about it. So grateful that you came to the conference that you spoke at the conference, and now we had a chance to connect and, again, conversate.

00;39;45;25 - 00;39;50;20
JD Kalmenson
And, how can our listeners find out more about the work that you do? Sure.

00;39;50;20 - 00;39;55;20
Mari Smith
Visit my website, Murray smith.com. And they're amazing. All the socials as well.

00;39;55;23 - 00;40;06;20
JD Kalmenson
Amazing. And the last but not least, I want to thank all of our listeners and viewers, who make this, podcast all the worthwhile and, looking forward to seeing you real soon.