Troy Benjamin – The brains behind Blak Brews Tea and building a First Nations-led enterprise

In this episode, we sit down with Troy Benjamin, a proud Wadi Wadi, Tadi Tadi, Mutti Mutti, and Wemba Wemba man. A entrepreneur, storyteller, and the visionary behind Black Brews, Australia’s first 100% First Nations-owned tea business. Troy’s journey is one of resilience, cultural pride, and groundbreaking success. From his early days navigating the challenges of business ownership, to winning Australia's first ever Food Stars with Gordon Ramsay, he has continuously pushed boundaries with fun and flair and mob in his heart.

We dive into the importance of challenges and triumphs of building a First Nations-led enterprise and the process behind Blak Brews, being on TV and forming a friendship with Gordon Ramsey.. Troy also shares his insights on representation, the future of Indigenous entrepreneurship, and what it takes to turn passion into purpose-driven success.

Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, a supporter of Indigenous businesses, or simply someone who loves hearing inspiring success stories, this episode is packed with wisdom, motivation, and some  powerful reflections!.

To learn more about Troy Benjamin, follow his journey and business blakbrews.com

Follow Caroline on Instagram:
@blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here.

We would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where this podcast was taped, and pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders, past, present, and emerging across Australia.

This podcast is brought to you by On Track Studio.
www.ontrackstudio.com.au
@on.track.studio

For advertising opportunities, please email: hello@ontrackstudio.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Podcast. Unite our voices.

SPEAKER_05 0:03

This podcast is brought to you by On Track Studio. Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's history to work towards a better future. I'm your host, Proud Barbara Woman and founder of Black Waddle Coaching and Consulting, Caroline Cal. We acknowledge the Rurundari people and elders where this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands that you are listening in from today. It always was and always will be unseated Aboriginal and Taurus Red Islander land. Well, I'm so excited to speak to my next guest. I know um he's not shy or unfamiliar with being in radio and having his own show. And actually, the last time we connected in this particular way, of course, was on your show. Really good radio. So it's nice to have you on the other side. Today I'm sitting down with Troy Benjamin and yeah, just really keen to connect and hear what's been happening and um get to know a bit more about you. So welcome to the show, Troy.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So good to be here. And um, yeah, good memories. That was that was through Arnie Rona and trying to do exactly what you're doing now, just stay connected and and what a hard time that was. But I I can feel your excitement because I was so excited to interview you. I know what it feels like to have just guests on, and that you kind of, you know, you just wonder what they've been up to, but also they got some value to add, and um it's yeah, good to be on here.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Yeah, no, it was it was so lovely. You I feel like you really like you really kept us connected and afloat during COVID by then. This is the thing about mob and just jumping in and doing what they've got to do for the benefit of mob. And so a lot's happened since that time. I'm now pregnant. You've gone on to, you know, go on to national TV and build this evolution of your idea, Black Bruise, from very, you know, very humble beginnings into, you know, onto a global stage. So I'm so excited to connect and and find out exactly what's been happening. But as we always do on this show, we always like to start by getting you to sort of introduce yourself, how you would like to be introduced. So yeah, can you tell us a bit about your mob and just a little bit about your story and and who you are?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yeah, it's cool. Um so yeah, I'm uh I'm a I'm a proud First Nations man living down here in Waterong Country, you know. I'm back in back in my birth home. Um, but my mob's up tutty tutty, muddy muddy, wadi wadi, latchy latchy country up Robinvale by Reynold. Um it's uh Yeah, I've had a cool life, cool journey. Um I've got a lovely wife now in my in my world, been together for five years and inherited a an absolute champion of a a son for legal term stepson. But man, I I'm just loving fatherhood and good things come to those who wait, I guess. Or or put yeah, I don't know if that I I wasn't waiting. But what amazing world that we can live in when you kind of hit your late 30s and ticking over to 40, and you're wondering, you know, am I gonna be these guys that are wasting their life away and keep kind of shifting and moving house and relationships end or jobs change, or you know, I was I've had a pretty a variety of of movements in my life, which as a young fella, yeah. Especially in the 90s when back then it was really um everyone's really proud to say that you've got a sturdy job, like you know, you got your nine or fiver. And as much as um I kind of agreed at the time, I never I didn't have that style of living. Things ended sooner than I guess what what everyone else wanted, and but uh guess what? Entrepreneurial ship is this, and I'm just grateful that interesting journey of youthful eventful life where there's no commitment and everyone's wanting you to settle down, and it's like, well, I don't know, I like exploring. I like exploring and I like switching it up if I don't feel it. And I'm an instinct person, not a a numbers and graphs person, and that might mean that my emotions take me to different areas, and I often pinch myself and and think, what am I doing? But I'm like I'm currently sitting in my old spare room when I was a teenager in my mum's house. Mum's moved out, but you know, I'm yeah, it's just crazy to to be in Geelong. And I'm one of those oldies that go, You're gonna come back to your hometown when some stage when you want a family. And you know, I left Geelong in the early 2000s and went to Melbourne and tried to spread my wings there and um but no, it's good to be home. Home is Geelong for me, and families here, my my schoolmates, you know. I was brought up in a very small community, and I I I like I like the power of small community, and yeah, it's good, but it's um it's a journey, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Yeah. Wow, it's so interesting. I mean, you know, muddy, muddy lati lati, like all along Robin Valley, all along the Murray River there and Bell Reynolds and then back to the the coast of you know Waterong and you know that water calling. And it sounds to me like, yeah, you're in a phase where you're grounded and anchored in, but still, you know, being creative and and like you say, trying to yeah, carve out your own entrepreneurial journey in this space that isn't always designed for mob, but it's almost like those small country towns force you to be resourceful and you have to sort of then think on your toes in in other ways. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, and I think I think yeah, I th you're spot on, and and to add on to that, uh I I realize the important parts of your life, a a good base is. Um, when you move, as growing and challenging as it is, you still need a good base where you go, I think. And my best years have always been when I'm I'm not moving, and whether it's relationship or my own health, or am I living a central life to my beliefs, that my core values, and or am I just being a little kind of leaf in the wind, and and I don't want people to name a name and you're not having any impact, deep impact with people, are you just being surface and you do you go through those times in life where you I don't know, you just pretend to be something else for a bit to see if it suits you. And through all those kind of I guess snakes shedding moments, skin shedding moments, what was in central was um my my base I found my base to be here. And yeah, it's where you know other people find it in other places. Um I'd love to hear from other people about where they think home is, but some people find home in other countries or completely different to what they'll brought up in. But I think for the most part, your home is is where you can settle and be nurtured and feel safe. And the people in Geelong just have always known me, so um, I just didn't think that would be the most valuable thing to me now, where it is very strange, very strange.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

So interesting to hear, yeah, hear you say that. And I think we've definitely all gone through phases of life where it's easier to like make ourselves small or chameleon, or you know, when we step into our authentic selves, it can be really vulnerable. But it's interesting. Did you imagine when you were growing up in DeLong that you would come back? Was that a part of your what you thought would be your base or what's important to you now? Or these are just parts of these shifts and evolutions?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, I think like up until 19, like I hadn't we really I was that kid that hadn't been to Melbourne, like 19 years old, so crazy. We might have gone on a train or something, but we're gonna Daimaroo or but you know, like to experience living somewhere else, like you know, you gotta move away from the family. Like I'm I've got no brothers and sisters, so my mum's got me on a short chain, you know, she's scared of losing me to the big smoke, you know. But even in my world, like we just didn't have a lot of people typical country town, I guess, back then, but we just didn't have a lot of people going to look for opportunities in Melbourne because most people would classically just get a trade, work in their parents' business, play footy on Saturdays, and just kind of never really dream outside the the norm and like to think that that and I so I was not aching, but when I got an opportunity to go up to the the Gold Coast, it was just because I knew a friend up there, I was classic rebelling against my mum's chain, short chain, and like yeah, I'm done with this and I'm out of here, and I'm calling a friend who lives in another place. And um until I was out there, um and I didn't come back because I came back to Geelong two years later after my stint in the Gold Coast, and I had changed, I had changed, I had seen things, I had done things, I had it was different just even within, you know, just this country, there's you know, Gold Coast is very different to Geelong. Gold Coast is different at Melbourne, Perth's different, you can tell you know, Perth's different than Adelaide, it's just different, you know, and Geelong didn't definitely didn't suit me. So I for a long time it's funny, whenever I had a relationship, and you know, it sounds like a serial relationship person, but I you know, when I have a relationship, I use they're usually my bookends like when people ask me, like, remember that time I'll go, oh, who was I with? Was I alone?

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Who was there? Was I with the first person?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Because other than that, they were really important to me those moments, you know. When I usually have I've you know, I've got a beautiful wife now, but she honest, you know, relationships have been really they take you on journeys with people and they can yeah, you know, you'd you experience the highs and lows of those people, and um whenever I would, I'd I'd felt like I was by myself, I'd always come running back to Geelong. I'd come back for a weekend, I'd move out of the house, I'd I'd come in back home, mum's mum's cooking.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

So I never like, you know, Mumma would always say, You're gonna come back here at some stage because you've got to settle down in some stage. And I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

But my wife is the catalyst of me being open to this style of living, and it's cons it's it's considered everything, you know, we we're living a very considered life down here. We're Melbourne, I was in Melbourne for the last 15 years, it was your event calendar's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:46

Just because of the you know, the city life, and you go on, you got tribute on Tuesdays, you're playing basketball on Wednesdays, you Baco's got a gig on down Brunswick East, and you gotta get over to Chapel Street for lunch and yeah, and just the sounds and the but like just everything, yeah, everything's like heightened and yeah, yeah, the nervous system is constantly on and almost, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, it was just it was just kind of beautiful timing coming back here and then meeting my wife and going, she would love Geelong. And I could nurture this boy and be a role a father role to the her her then seven-year-old, and I know exactly where to go because I was a seven-year-old in this town.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

You're going to this basketball club, you're going to this school. I'm speaking of the principal. This is my old teacher, this is my classroom.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I had a good time down here, you know. It was just it so no, I didn't think I'd be here, but it just makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Mind you, I wouldn't mind randomly picking up the family and going to Bali for a year. We think about it often.

SPEAKER_05 13:00

Yeah. Oh my god. I've sounds very resonant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

I've been thinking about ways how I can change my name or fake my death and leave. Set set up somewhere else for a while. It wouldn't be nice just to de plug from some of the yeah, the things.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah. Kind of I was late to the overseas cultural trip and I wish I'd I know I do. I wish I went overseas as a teenager or as anything. Like Lockheed now has been to Italy and Barcelona and Bali, and you know, he's like, you know, he that's cool. For I notice kids that have traveled, they they reflect a bit bit more factually about their life because he thinks it's all about the PlayStation, it's all about why and I getting picked in the team. It's like, come on.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Opens your eyes a bit.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

Doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I love talking about family. Can we just talk about family forever?

SPEAKER_05 13:58

Yeah, I know. I mean I love it too. And it's certainly something that I think, you know, as becoming in this new journey, it's something I'm really interested in is yeah, how people find their own peace or carve out their beautiful life or yeah, want to raise their families or their own values. So yeah, there's there's lots to lots to explore. I mean, I think it's beautiful. And I I think it's always interesting. Like, yeah, mum was right, and you know, you were gonna come back there. It's like, thanks, Mum. But um, yeah, it's something it's it feels very resonant because um you are such a product of your environments, aren't you? And and you want to be like intentional with yeah, the people that you know you know and the community there and Lockie's upbringing, and you know, just the pace of life that the coast brings. Yeah, all of these sort of like eco networks are attached with where we live and what life you want to have, really, isn't it? It's all it's all relative. So yeah, it sounds like you and Carissa have been on quite the adventure over the last five years of marriage. How long have when was this relationship? When did you guys meet?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah, about five years ago when we got married a year later. Um two-week COVID COVID marriage. It was we just squeezed when it when it went from zero to twenty people. We're like, that'll do.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Wow, I had to wait 12 years, my end. Look here, this one. Well done. When you know you love it, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 15:33

Let's get this, let's get this game back on track. Get it done.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Get in, commit, give it a crack.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Look, it's hard to commentate on this world, hey, but long like committed relationships uh is hard, but man, they're awesome. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Anyway, that's because you sort of you you kind of go through your own seasons and like evolutions as an individual. And if you find someone that you can do that with, and you know, where you're constantly, you know, falling in and out of love with yourself and blah blah and got just navigating that that with someone and you enjoy them, then tick, like like bonus. You know, it's like I still think my partner and I we've been together for almost 14 years, and I look at him and I'm like, I still like hanging out with ya, you know, you're still a good bloke.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I know gold.

SPEAKER_05 16:28

I actually just still like ya.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:32

Yeah, you and Carissa, you you founded your business, and I'd love to talk about that. So in 2022, you and Carissa founded 100% First Nations Black owned operated business that offers ethically sourced premium tea with native ingredients. You took that idea onto a global stage. You were on the first um ever Food Stars last year, and which was run by Gordon Ramsey, and you fellas went on to win. You got the$250,000 investment and a mentorship with Black Bruce. So where did this all come about? How did this fit into the picture? You know, where did you, Mob, come up with the idea? Yeah, where did it all start for you, Mob?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Just so you know, while you were doing that little rap sheet on the journey of the Black Bruise, I I s I can't I shake my head because if I really listen to what you said, I still don't it's not believable. It's not yeah, what happened?

SPEAKER_05 17:36

Well, how did the boy from GeLong who went on to win on TV? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

It's tea company, it's not it's just not obvious, but you know, no man, it's so hard. I often do talks that you know, because that's what happens when you win TV shows, people want you to talk on things, it's really interesting. Even though I ain't the pro on any topic at all, I talk about I talk about just kind of you know what you're doing here, like bringing people together, and and I often talk about how I fell into most of my career-defining moments over the last 12 years, whether it's running my own cafe to running a barista agency, to running that radio show, to running deadly events, open mic nights, to comedy, like I just uh jumping on radio, like it's all kind of um I don't think about it too much, other than um I just feel like it'd be really fun to talk to others and hear about what's going on. And it's the same, like this tea thing came about. I was um trying to encourage Carissa because she was a bit she's a she's a nine or fiver. She's a nine or fiver, she loves the nine or five grind. Yeah, give me my lunch break, give me my wage at the end of the week, and I'll look after the home. She's a home woman, she wants to come home and and bait the cakes and make your beds look nice. She loves it. I was like, Love it. Well, you know, during yeah, and during COVID, I was, you know, you couldn't really do that as much. I mean, I I reckon you got a good idea. She had an idea to do an essential oils business with native ingredients, and I I knew someone who knew a thing about she knew about herbs plants. I thought she'd be a good starting point here in Geelong. She's also a a tea master, a world-renowned tea master. Wow. But I didn't think about the tea, I just thought I'll let Carissa go over there, she could have a little dabble of exploring her this project that she's really keen on. And I'll just stand back and let her have the fun ride of exploring this brain of hers and see if she can get a product off the ground. And um, and I just overheard the conversation and started thinking about man, these tea blends that she had in store also could apply to native ingredients. And yeah, maybe I start a tea range. And I went back a week later and and just asked her what what it takes to kind of develop some tea blends with you. Um, would you be interested in working with her with me? Just a couple of the hoops like you thought that might be hard to get through, like how how much money do I need to get a brand? I don't know, like get a web brand off the ground. And I've been in coffee operation, like it's different, somewhat different. Like to get a product, like, and then to release it online and had to work out Shopify and how much do I protect the product the names of the teas. Anyway, I went crazy for like three weeks, just in the locker, just like this is the best idea on the planet, and and just thought we just took some teas out there, and the product spoke for itself. Very, very high quality tea, very little uh insert of anything other than native ingredients, so it's just those pure plants and fruits.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

It's and we're like with that, like where is it? It is it source when you say like native ingredients, like is there like tea places where like I imagine that would have been really hard. Like, okay, very hard. Where do I source the tea? Like, who's making it, who's farming it? How much is that yeah? How did you navigate that? The sourcing of ethical native tea.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

The so the sourcing part. So Sharon, who's a very good friend of mine, I had a coffee relationship with her, it's his mum. Yeah, and you know, often the topic that kind of comes through black fellows is uh I prefer to deal with First Nations people, but like who's this white person that's gatekeeping this product? Yeah, anyway, but the person that we're talking about is someone that I know, like yeah, so I was like, Where are you getting all this lemon myrtle from? And she's like, Look, I've got a guy like who's just with they call him bush, they call him bushies, they're people that live out in the bush and just grow it. Yeah, and I don't have and she just pays for it. And yeah, I'm of often like, give me the bushes name.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

She's got a business, she's got a business to run. She's got a business, and she has supported, she runs her own native blends, she helps people that are uh non indigenous and and black fellow, like yeah, and she's you know, but she helps a Lot of the other brands that we know about. Um, yeah, she's just a person that's got great connections over her 30 year career, and I think love it rightly so. I don't, you know, I'd love like and this is one of your questions is really interesting. One, and I mean we might be jumping there already, but yeah, I had to really kind of work out is this the right thing to do?

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah. Or do I avoid benefiting, uh giving her yeah, look, she's got the product. What do I do? Right, yeah, what blow a house a house up and say, I got it now. Like, yeah, which might make sense, might be a good revenge tip. But yeah, no, I've got to work with this woman, and and I love her, she's a brilliant woman, and she was just like, whatever you want to do, let's do try with native, whatever you want, Troy, and I will lend you anything that you need. You're like a son to me, you're such a good friend with my son. What do you need to get these blends off the ground? I've got people that can help you with design. I'm like, nah, I'll go to Nara Millie and I want to at least go there first. And you know, just to get a pulse check, culture check. How does products get released in this market? How can we hold on to some our pride and our our culture and our strength? And and you know, I just went with it. I she's a good person, and our ethos and our brand is you know, be good people, work with good people. It's not um, it's not be black, stay black, only work with black. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Well you you'd be hard pressed to be able to get any business off the ground if we just relied solely on the black economy, sadly. Like you have to use your resources accordingly, and you have to go where people have relationships, and yeah, that's just that's business. That's the that's just the name of the game.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah, and who's the who's the client? Yeah, who's the client? Like, who's buying this tea? Yeah, and I know this is just for Aboriginal people, like yeah, no, like the client in Australia is not indigenous, so yeah, I've got to work with people that understand that crew, which is not saying we don't, but anyway, I was just really early on, and I've never really been like, nah, you're not black, like you can't get into this space. I'm like, Yeah, if you're a good person and you're gonna support me, and I'm I'm you want to work together, I'm let's get this. And she just she is the reason I've gotten to this point today, whilst it's my story and my reason, and we got in this show, and the first episode, she's one of the four people that I got to bring I I brought. I said, Shaz, you you have you have got me to this point. You have lent she's she's even mortgaged her house. I'm not joking you mortgaged her house to get me enough stock in the lead up to the grand final to ensure that I've got enough prod product. Wow, this woman is just an ultimate human being.

SPEAKER_05 24:50

What a weapon, and like also to you know, it's a weapon exactly, yeah. Seriously, but you know, I think this is the thing, it's like just working with people who share similar values. I mean, anyone who's gonna put their neck on the line truly believes, not just in the product, but believes in you, you know, and that's what you want. Someone in your in your corner who believes in you and what you what you stand for and the mission. So I'm all for it. Wow. So three we yeah, three weeks went into this sort of like chamber, got your resources together, and then and then how did and then where did you land with Black Bruce? Like how did you how did you pick the flavor combinations? How did you then move through the the process? I'm just being a dory because I love tea, by the way. Do you I love drinking it and I love spilling the tea? Naggie.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Hey, look, she's the tea sommelier, right? And that's what they call their psalms. They are high class, high-level pallets. I am not going to get on that wagon and I could not wait to release these teas. I'm not going and take this home. I'm like, give me some bangers, give me and I tasted the bangers, give me a lemongrass and ginger, give me a a breakfast tea. But what do we got? She's like, Dane tree grows incredible tea in the Dane Tree Forest. Like, great.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Give me some an El Gray, but let's put a black fella twist on it. What are we doing? She's like, just whack some finger lime in there, it'd be unreal. It's gonna cool. So we came up with six blends. She did, and I'll never never stop campaigning her. She came up with them and goes, try these. And I went, they are incredible.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

I'm going out to the Grinchy Freedom Festival in a month. I'm gonna take these blends out there and Grinchy Freedom Festival, my wife's country, she it's all unpowered sites, so heaps of campfires. I just went and dunked like all day long, dunking teas in people's pots.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

And oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

The response, just the market said, This tea's off its head.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Wow, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

What are they called? I better go back and make some names, and um it's how it launched. The Shopify site, Nara Millie were brilliant. Big shout out to them crew there. Met Monique, Rennie, who's just created on country, a brilliant artist.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Oh Monique's Monique's actually in our leadership program, my leadership program.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

She's uh the the best as again early early backbone of of she gave me the brand direct. She she she designed the logo. Wow, and then I changed it to solid red, yellow, black, but we'll muck around with logo design. But she got the concept and the little black blurbs, she designed that coffee van that you see around everywhere. She was cool, she was cool, and that's how it got done. I love it. No, I didn't have I didn't add I had no cash. Yeah, I want to tell people that if I ever looked in this pocket, I had no cash, yeah, no cash here, Robbo. But none. But yeah, my wife tells me.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

No cash, more passion. So it should be more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Passion.

SPEAKER_05 27:55

Passion. Yes, it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Asking for help has been my currency. So when I do these talks, I always feel out it's a complete imposter. I'm like, why do they want to talk to me? I go, I think I can teach people, or at least encourage people, ask for help. Yeah. In any possible format. My wife tells me all the time, I don't know how you ask people for help. I went, Well, I don't get how you don't. Yeah. You need it. But two people, too many people are too scared to look inferior. They don't know what they're doing, or they might get backslapped and go, you know, you do it yourself. Or maybe at 30 you should have had your life together by now. All these stuff.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

It's like, what? So true.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

That's um keep forgetting about your questions because I go off on it.

SPEAKER_05 28:39

No, that's okay. I love it. I love it. We just go where we need to go. No, I think you're right. It sounds yeah, there's such strength in giving help. I think mob are really good at showing up and doing, but also just the strength in receiving help and playing to everyone's strengths and and sharing that responsibility and their passions and you know, identifying your roles. So, wow. I mean, were you prior to launching Black Bruce, were you and Carissa tea drinkers? Did you enjoy a cuppa?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Nah. Carissa was a little bit, but no, no.

SPEAKER_05 29:15

And um, look, I'm still not like we are having quite convinced yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

I'm not going out there like on the Dilma family, like we're the kings and queens of tea.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Like, yeah, yeah. I just did a tea tasting yesterday at a shop, and they're like the barista is like, oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

I love that cacao little um.

SPEAKER_05 29:38

Oh god, like these woody notes and like how they say with wine.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Like is that a good thing?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Good, good, I believe you. On the show, Carolyn, I've I um episode three, I got super sick. I and I'm confident it was COVID.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

That's two years ago almost to the day, and I can't smell and taste since. I haven't ever smelled it. Two years, two years have been.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

So I trust that one I remember the flavours back in the day, but right now, if I tasted a lemongrass and ginger tea, yeah, I can smell it a little bit, I get a hint, but um, yeah. But what I do know about tea is tea's very peaceful to people. Yeah, there's a different, different attitude towards it.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

Yeah, it's it's a ritual. I feel like for anyway for me, it is so sacred. It's like we just had a conversation. I mean, there's there's this really old, I don't know if you're a big brother fan, but back in the day, there's this big brother celebrity, and David Bowie's wife is in there, and this English woman speaking to an American woman, and she's just talking about her obsession with tea. She's like, and it's like a grand. And this American's like, right, okay, like does not understand. And I don't know, I think if you grew up in black communities too, like it it is, it's a gesture, it's a gift, it's uh when I don't know what else to say and I want to break the ice, let's do that. It feels like a it's an exchange, it's a ritual. I know we just had a big conversation in our women's leadership program that we run with Black Waddle about what's the difference between a routine, so something we might do, versus a ritual, something when we're a bit more intentional, and and tea came up heavily throughout. And it does, it feels like it's it's that warmth, it's that the smell, it's it is a really yeah, and it's also quite you know linked to so many traditional ceremonies and practices. So I'm a very big tea advocate. If you ever need me to try any of your teas that you can't taste, I knew exactly where this was going.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

I've had these conversations on the daily.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

I'm just a tea drink.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

If you want to try let us charm.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

No, but it is sacred. And I just think it's so beautiful to see that, you know, you've taken that to TV as well. Like, and just watching you on TV in your in your natural element, like you were fantastic. Did you talk me through the first time you were on the set and you met Gordon Ramsay? What was that like? Were you just freaking out? We'll be back, you mob, right after this short break.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

It is the most, yeah. I don't know the most famous. Who's the most famous person you ever met? Is it Gordon level? Have you met a Gordon level person?

SPEAKER_05 32:45

I'm just trying to think. I'm sorry to put you on the spot. No, let me think. Probably the most famous person I've ever met. Well, TV wise, I sort of fangirlled over. I had Kirby Bentley from Survivor on my podcast, and she is a yeah, she was a legend, and I'm a huge Survivor fan, so I fangirlled for days. I know, and then I was like, Yeah, I don't know. I met Yothi Indy, like the mob then that was pretty deadly. That's a rather calabar, no Gordon Ramsies.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

It's you know, like, oh look, I get it. The survivor, like you know, once you see someone on TV, so you didn't met you hadn't met Cooper before she was on Survivor? No, haven't you? Yeah, so the TV first, yeah, same with Gordon, TV first, YouTube, everything, Gordon, and then he's at ya going, Troy, what's going on over here? Get the team together. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_05 33:38

Every time the same in real life, or is it so fun, Carolyn?

SPEAKER_00 33:43

He's the funnest. He's he's immediately in your corner, yeah, and he knows how to he's just ruthless with his pursuit for excellence. Right. If you're not interested, he won't invest in you. If he sees that you're interested in ruthless execution and get on with it, and just from sheer brute aggression, we will get there. Yeah. If you're in that page, he's all into it. He's India. And that's that's how he treats people. Like he's just like, well, why didn't I I don't need that right now. I need solution. Like he's very good, and he had to deal with so many different personalities. And this is one series of how like so many formats that he looks after. He's got a little earpiece in his ear, right? Yeah, tiniest little like the size of this little tissue in his ear all the time.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

So he's got someone, he can't, he's not around. So I remember the audition um when he came up to my van and I'm packing dax, packing dax. And I'm in my element too. I'm in my van. Packing it. I was walking down, they've got the longest red carpet. The carpet that goes to them is too long, it should be a cut in quarters. But you're walking all the way down. It was just Janine Ellis is there, which I'm a big fan of Janine Ellis too. But yeah, Gordon in the real life is just full on. And I just tried to pay attention to what they were saying and not I didn't want to get too comfortable because this is flipping TV. So I was scared. I was like, Do I do some joke or am I gonna say something that I might say comfortable with you, but this shouldn't go on channel on TV? Really nervous about just what you're gonna say. But Gordon's great, he's like, man, good to see you. I'm like, good to see you too, Gordon. Um hi Janine, and he's like, Um, tell us your name. And and uh I told he goes, tell us your first name, and I'm like, Troy.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

It was so one line up.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

I'm like and he's like, Great, great, yeah, great. Like, what's going on here? And they had to cut the episode and go, pause. Um, Troy, are you gonna I heard that there's going to be um a welcome to country? Because there was going to be. I had a lovely auntie who I'm not gonna say her name, she pulled out for one one hour beforehand.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Oh, good ways.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Who was gonna do a smoking uh a full no, he was gonna do a welcome, and so he didn't understand what was going on, yeah. And he's like, I go, Oh, I was gonna acknowledge country, but uh, do I do it now?

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Exactly. Let's remind it back. Hi, I'm Troy. I'd like to uh acknowledge anyway.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

I said, and so the episode kind of looks real casual, and they kind of edited out to make it not look like that anything that happened, but yeah, very quickly the stuff ups and the the the cameras and him, we were all in we all stuff up mode very early. But Gordon is he's got an incredible memory bank. I think that's his biggest weapon. If he saw you, Carolyn, and met you, high chance he would get you again and go, Hey, I've I've met you before, haven't I? He's very good. He's really attentive.

SPEAKER_04 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Um he would kind of float in and out of the set. He'd come in, do his bit, but he's not in the backgrounds watching us. He's he's off doing other stuff, and he's a producer as well, so he's probably standing at the back making sure certain people are maybe fighting and they've got to find some stories to follow up.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

That was all cool. But we were given the vote of con at the start, they did say, Hey, just in case you're scared, like this TV show is about elevating you and your brand. So unless you provide some content for us, we're not gonna get at you to be this person that you're not. So just shine and and that was really helpful.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Very fun being on TV, though, I must say.

SPEAKER_05 37:28

I was gonna say, I mean, you're a natural. I mean, you're I mean, you're up on stages, you've been in radio, you know, you're an entertainer at the at its core, really. And so, you know, and that's that's the hard part where I think where people might have like a business on RDH and being able to sell and promote because you are the brand, you know, you doing that, flying that flag. So, yeah, I mean, what was that experience like? So once you got rid of the initial nerves and just the awkward Gordon Ramsay jitters, how did you go? Like, how what was your mindset going on to said? And and when when when when were you like at what point were we like, okay, we're going all in here, and we're just gonna give this a red hot go?

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Hey, you work in teams and you're in the um you know leadership space. It's really strange, and uh I don't know you well enough, Caroline, to know what you would you'd be like in a team, but I'm sure you'd support if you were knew that there was time to support, and you're not the leader. Yeah, you got room awareness and instincts, and you read the room. We had people in our team that couldn't read the room, yeah, and were trying to push their agenda and say, nah, I've done catering for 47 years, I know like and just trying to like we just weren't weren't gelling and you know, disclaimer for the people that haven't watched the show. We we we struggled the first two episodes because and I didn't know what to do. I didn't know I've never been in a room with lots of egos old ding bats who are a bit not sure what to do because everyone was kind of a bit cautious and didn't want to upset each other. And yeah, we knew this is gonna be on TV on channel nine, like it's like I don't want to look bad, I don't want my family to look I don't want to look like a psycho, go down to Aldi and someone's like Yeah, I don't want to go to the shopping center and like you're the dude that berated a woman. It's like, oh man, like I'm just everyone's freaking out, I think. Yeah, anyway. I trusted that I wasn't gonna do anything too wrong, but uh at the end of episode three, I I mean, you saw the show, I walk out the door, and Gordon that was by the way, that's all unscripted. A lot of this show is unscripted. Like it naturally happens, they don't say Troy, Gordon's gonna and Gordon's like, Troy, get him going, man. Get him going. That's the first time he's talked to me directly.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Right. And I'm like, I believe in you, you got this sort of gone then.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Just gave me the nudge to go, we need someone to and I step up. Because at least I can go, hey, Gordon told me to, or yeah, I'll throw his authority around.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

So if you don't like it, talk to him.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

We just needed that little nudge of going, cool, yeah, let's have just a central point at the at the top, or you know, a leader and then funnel your stuff through. We ended up winning the next episode. We got the Jerry Jiries on there and put Jade Kennedy.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just pulled together this cultural masterpiece, it was like yeah, it was beautiful, and it was nice for people like us watching me like, oh my god, Stace, oh my god, yeah, or like you know, people that we know, like you know, and that's another thing about mob. It's like if we are on, we bring in our contacts with us. So that was nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

It was powerful, and I hadn't seen family for two weeks, and because you're not allowed to leave the hotel really unless it's for filming, and yeah, you can go get some food, but I balled my head off when I saw Mandy and Stacy and I was the known as the crying guy on the set because I think I was just overtime, but I'm an emotional guy, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:48

Yeah, we wear our heart on our sleeves, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

You know, so when they came in, I was like, ah, you're so good to see you. And I, you know, we were halfway through the dinner, and it's like we're gonna. I said, Stacey, just make this so good. I'm so glad you're here, and we're gonna win this. We need to win this episode, and yeah, no pressure, but pull out all strings, like put on a show for the crowd because we it was a a seated dinner that we had to impress kind of 18 or 15 socialites.

SPEAKER_04 41:18

But um that's right.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

The show was one of the most funnest experiences, but going back to what you're saying, like I'd half by that episode I felt comfortable being myself. Well, usually I am anyway, but yeah, on that ep on that weird setup, I was a bit cautious and I could feel myself being cautious. Normally I would have spoken up two episodes earlier and called out someone and go, You can't, you're an idiot. Like, why are we doing this? But I didn't speak like that, you know. And I realized that Gordon can see probably that I've got some qualities to add that maybe the team needed, and and funny enough, it's weird when it happens, but the team will right behind it, go, man, this is so good to have a working group. I'm like, wow, all it takes is someone just to kind of get the structure right and go, look, I'll lead everyone's support. We just lost three challenges in a row, like we were on the gutter. Gordon was losing his mind going, This is called Gordon Ramsey's Food Stars, and my team's losing.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

Yeah, like I I need you guys to step up.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, step up, and uh it it it went really well from there. So wow, very I still yeah, I still I still tingle about it thinking, Did I really did that happen to me? It's very weird.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

I feel you do you know what I often say?

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Sorry to keep going at this.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

No, don't apologize.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

I told so many of production, I like you know, because people were like, You're so real and so genuine, so authentic. You were um community orientated, you're patient with all the production crew, you're the nicest guy to interview. I'm like, I got so many mob yeah that would be we balance, we balance that world, I think, very well.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Totally. And this is why mob don't only just make good tally, but they are easy to work with, they bring the right, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Ether Kirby's a great example.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

She was lovable and yeah, and you know herself.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm so glad to hear that you enjoyed the experience. Do you reckon that might be it for you for TV? Because I reckon you've got I reckon, yeah, you were you were just so so easy to watch, so fun to watch. We got to see the real emotion. Yeah, it's more than just the brand of the tea, wasn't it? It's it's about you stepping up in these scenarios. And yeah, do you reckon that's it for TV? Or would you give it another crack if there's an opportunity? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

I'm trying. I was to be honest, like, and you talk about Big Brother or something before, like I remember the Big Brother days when someone would finish the show and they're like on channel 10 the next morning after they got the couriers, like the yeah. I thought that was gonna happen and um it didn't. And you know, I went and tried to I'm trying to push. You know, it's been a year far at flown, a year since the episode finished. I'm trying to get in TV. Yeah, I've got I've got I enjoyed it. I think there's I think Tony Armstrong's doing a great job on air. Um we need more black representation. Not just not but not just black, but black you just said, that description. If we can find an audience for that style of interest, natural combos. People don't want to be over-dramatized anymore. Like you look at the block, and it used to be a good show where you learnt how to build buildings, and now it's just yeah, now it's just yeah, it's like just age conflict, and yeah, it's giving maps now. Yeah, right. MAF's still going strong, by the way. We were very honored to be our ads were in the intertwined into MAFs. So I had to start watching MAFs because our ads were.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

It's a slippery slope. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, I'd love I'd love to do TV or some. Yeah. I I thoroughly enjoyed the value of large exposure. Um I I want to reach more people, like you know, like probably yourself, like you know, you're just the idea is you want to reach people, like how big you want to go, I don't know, in a natural setting, I'll as long as I'm not losing my life and ignoring my family and you know, yeah. I don't want to be I don't want to be superstar of being a superstar.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

No, no, and I think Mob are always like inherently conscious about how you can balance both your individual pursuits with like community ways, you know. And sometimes that's also our Achilles heel, I think it holds us back. And it's interesting when you say that, like how big do I want to go? Like it's in I've actually never really thought of of that, but I I do think about I do have the like the subtext conversation where I'm like, oh, am I doing too much? Am I being too out there or am I being too individual? And you know, I'm constantly having that sort of like internal dialogue and trying to find a space where it feels comfortable. This is the most like gammon thing I've ever gonna say on I've said on the show. But I read this, I wrote this post a couple of months ago, and like Scissor, like the rapper, singer, songwriter, reposted it and shared it. And like just this little old like black waddle, you know, this little thing in NAM, um, who's just like a small business like you started with no money, just uh a logo and a lot of enthusiasm, had no idea what I was doing, no business now, so whatever. When she shared it, like my my following just went up, like within, and I started to get really scared about that in the in a way because I was just thinking, I don't know, we just it's just always this thing about being a black fella. It's like we're such a collective that sometimes it feels scary putting yourself out there, you know, and and doing the thing. But really having to try to just sit in that because other mob don't have to think about that, you know. We um and so how do you balance the collective responsibility with your own individual pursuits is something I have torn myself up over over many a year, I reckon.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yeah, yeah, I know. Stay small and no take.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

You can do more when you've got more of an influence, and right when you've got more reach, and you know, ultimately we all should be acquiring power, resources to do more so we can help more of our mob or or reach more of our mob, or you know, show that we exist, we're here, we're valued, we've got lots of skills and contributions to bring. So, you know, we shouldn't really be like our elders and old people, they wouldn't want us to play small, but we can still find ourselves in that mindset, and I think we all got to push through that. So seeing people like yourself on TV and others, it gives us that sense of like, hey, these spaces are for us too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

What do they say? Shine your light. Like it's so true. Like, yeah, why why have if you've got whatever your light is, why why hide it? Why why dilute it? Why turn the flame down if you can turn it up? Like if it's gonna produce more light, metaphorically and visibly, you know, like totally, like that's good, like yeah, yeah, people are gonna it's sad. The hard part, I think, and maybe you relate to this too, is like you're doing good, your heart's so into it, you put all this effort in, and you get people trying to knock you down. It's really tough. That's the tough part, I think. Like, man, come on, yeah, me, go knock out someone else.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

Yeah, I know. And I I don't yeah, I'm crack. Yeah, I get a bit wild when it's like mob piling on mob in that respect because you know you never really know what battles they've fought to even put themselves out there in the first place, you know. And I I hear, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

So the isolating part is challenging, and I think that goes back to what we started at. Like, if you've got a good base, I think you can get through anything like that. And you know, like I I I won't lie, like when we got off the show, in all that I've done, and you know, kind of some of the things I've done with events and whatever else, are you whatever they know? They're kind of all just little passion projects. I'd never got more positive experience than off this show. Yeah, people that I didn't know had a complimentary nature.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

I just went, man, I didn't know you liked me. Or yeah, oh maybe they just didn't have an opportunity to do it, but I just assume, and you say about black fellas, it really affects me when mob come at me or they struggle a bit at times to kind of just go, man. I especially people that you might know for a long time, and yeah, you don't always have had uh the most fun open line of combo. They come there. Some of them have come over and like, man, me and my dad watch you, you made me so proud. I'm like, I thought you hated me. Yeah, we're good. Yeah, anyway, it's probably self self kind of present. Like, I just want to protect and not read into what other people think, but at the same time, it's really nice when people have said nice things, and and I'm just thankful that that show it wasn't about as much as it was Troy from Black Bruce. I I hope, and the same way you're doing this podcast and anything that we've ever done, it's it's not about status.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

I don't like I don't anyway. I don't I I like being known for something good, but I don't I don't want to be known for being arrogant or having a big ego, or I want to try really hard to make sure that you guys all know that we're doing this for the for the to shine the light on on us and others.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

And I think you know, seeing people like you on TV or even I had a young sister girl say, Oh, I want to do a podcast. It just gives permission for this other generation and our peers to to you know dream a bit bigger, to believe they're worthy of those things, to um back themselves a bit more, you know. The more people that we see, you know, we grew up, like you mentioned before in the 90s, and I've said this on the show before, but like it was literally Ernie Dingo, Uncle Ernie on our TVs, and that was it. Maybe Deborah Malman, of course. But like, no, no disrespect to Uncle and his stature, but you know, it's like that's all we got. That's all we want. Um, there was no one on TV that looked like my mom or me or my aunties, you know, or so it's like this, it it's changing. It needs obviously there needs to be more opportunities for mob. Mob make great TV, you know. I think that's the best thing. It's like we because we don't really subscribe to the those can those norms. Um, we're not about ourselves, we're funny and cheeky, and we bring good, you know, good energy, and we're willing to be loud and silly and everything. So we make great TV to watch, and it's just deadly to see.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Oh, you talk of you mentioned Ernie Dingo there before, and I I'm gonna I'm gonna say he he got that gig. So we live in a world now where black fellas or any kind of minority group, if they get a gig, you get told that you got that because of whatever minority group you're live. Oh, you just whatever it is. The diversity is you're the topic of the day, you're the yeah, you just got that because you're black and it's Nadock Week and all the job. Ernie didn't get it. No, Ernie didn't get it because he was they were not up for putting black people on TV back then.

SPEAKER_05 52:44

No, and you think about what he would have gone through too, being like and Uncle Stan Grant, even you know, and thinking about when he was on the news and what they would have gone through in the 90s, where they were I mean, it's still we'd still got a long way to go, of course, but yes, they really flew the flag, eh, and really opened the doors.

unknown 53:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

And you talk of like I just think of Ernie Dingo, that's why I started laughing, like, man, he was just the best to watch.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

Like, I think he was everyone's uncle.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, he was everyone's he was just brilliant with he was just he got stories out of people, he was beautiful to watch, and and I I like to think that we're coming back to that now. And that's why people don't watch TV anymore, and they find the stuff that they want to watch because they're gonna get the stuff that they want to watch.

SPEAKER_05 53:33

Yeah, and you're right too. I think TV is like our one medium, but you know, there's like so many incredible black creators and storytellers, people on like I'm not quite there yet. I'm sort of in the weird cusp of being old. TikTok and no, I mean, there's like all these young people on TikTok and doing incredible things, and you think they've even just gone outside of the mainstream and making their own entertainment. You've got you know, models and artists, and just so many mob with this explosion, so it's it's exciting to see. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

I just DM'd um sorry, I just DM'd Norelda Jacobs yesterday, and I was so excited. Like she liked my my she parted my DM and I'm like, Can I send you some tea? Like, I'm such a fan, and you're the coolest, and you're on channel 10 news. She's like, love it, love it, love some tea.

SPEAKER_05 54:26

Yeah, oh well, you could so use um you could so just slide on into people's DMs. So by the way, me and Gordon Ramsay were talking, right? And no, yeah, I know, yeah. So okay, two questions on the show I want to finish off. Is very quickly, is is Gordon Ramsay the same on the show and on what we see on TV as he is in the wild, like when you guys were doing the wild, yeah, just in the wild every day. Is he the same or is it he's you know even better?

SPEAKER_00 54:58

I don't know what the same is to those people out there, but hey, you watch Hal's Kitchen, he's not Hal's Kitchen, like he's not because he's not swearing at people like and making people feel crap.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Even though a lot of that stuff's justified, he's one of the most beautiful men on the planet. I would love to have all that's going on in his world and have his grounded nature. He's an incredible human being with the biggest heart and his passion for family is incredible. Some people ask me, What? He's got a wife. I went, What did you think?

SPEAKER_05 55:32

Yeah, he's got he's always on TikTok with his daughters, like his family man.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yeah, he's a family man, you know, he's got six kids, yeah, five or six, he's just had another one. I don't know how his production system's going. Yeah, he's still pumping him out at 58. He's a good man.

SPEAKER_05 55:49

And um, you can tell someone that passionate, someone with that much like skin in the game and that longevity has like got to be a good bloke to work with, yeah. And then with the so you got a 12, you got the you won some prize money, and then you also got a mentorship. How's that journey been? What's been and and what's next for the black blue brews? On what's next for you in this sort of entrepreneurial space? I mean, if there's anyone listening from TV, hopefully there's somebody who can give you a nice plug. But yeah, I mean, what what what's what's been the evolution since the show, and what do you think's next?

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Yeah, um, Gordon's been great. He um he flew me over there about three months after the show and gave me full access to his entire team. And when I say entire team, he's got a small office in um Soho, London that runs his entire global empire. They're a top team, one person has four things, they're very talented, multi-skilled people. And he wanted to make sure why it took three months for me to get over there because he wanted to make sure they were all in Soho and him at the same time to be able to attend to me and some other things that they were doing at the same time. Post that I'm not really at the stage where I need to be calling him and going, Hey, why is my website slow? Like, go away. He's been brilliant in whenever I've talked to him or his team since uh the show and over the last year, he always says, You're going so well, mate. Reach out if you need anything, Gordon. He's I've got his private number, so it's I'm very careful that I don't have a wine or two and go, Gordo, watching you on YouTube again. Gotta be careful. The amount of people that have come up to me as well and gone, hey, can you get my wine glasses in Gordon's hands? They're like, far out.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

Yeah, I can imagine everyone coming out of the wood with their own.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Journey's been incredible. So, what we're doing now, we realise we're we've probably just got a bit more clarity in what Black Bruise is and what that is, is we're a high-end, luxurious brand. We're in the premium brand space, which means sadly, we can't say yes to everyone that wants to stock our teas. And that's really hard. It's really hard. Well, we can't really go into every single tea possibility because otherwise a lot of these premium tea brands they will cross-check and see where your brand is and say you're not for us. It's like imagine going to Gordon's restaurant and showing him my tea, and we're in bakeries and like we're in Coles and Woolies and IGAs, and he's like, We're not probably gonna take you on. So with Gordon's help, we're trying to, and his contacts, but also my own contacts in Melbourne and Sydney. Um, we're trying to just solidify ourselves as a very exclusive, high-end multiple faceted tea company that's kind of got medicinal properties and flavours, and it's exclusive to Australia. And we're just trying to build that brand the same way kind of Yeti did, or I mean, even the big brands like Nike and stuff. You can't get Nike in Kmart for a reason, you know.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

Yeah. So we're talking like I don't know, I'm trying to think of luxury, but like hotel chains and yeah, yeah, yeah, and so low volume, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

But premium presence, yeah. And that takes time, it takes time. You know, we're in um we're in all the resorts at Uluru. That's a really good kind of tourism one, high volume because there's you know, if anyone goes into sales in the desert, we've got a high tea there with our tea, and you can get it around. We're in View de Monde at the moment. We just got recently um signed up with them, and yeah, our name's getting out there just through word of mouth from these people because the great thing about being in uh View de Mond is that they are also a vessel of um information for other people that might say, Hey, what tea do you guys use? And they say, We got black brews.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

They're cool, and they it's a trust, it's a trust system, and yeah, otherwise I'm just getting this like image of you just having to like rub shoulders with all these like swanky things to find no.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

I hate it, Carolyn.

SPEAKER_05 59:56

I could imagine that would be the hard bit because you know that's the sort of calibre of the people, and yeah, I could just it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

I'm not judging it and I'm critical and I've got to shut my mouth, yeah, and it's a little bit of sucking, but it's just it's it's business at the same time. As long as I don't go like yesterday, I had to rush rush from the warehouse to a tea tasting, and I was in my warehouse trackies and I was late, I go, I can't go to this tea tasting in my night track suit pants.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:24

Doesn't it not give me a big one? Nor could I disarm them.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

So I have to kind of have a level of polish, but at the same time, our story is it's not a polished one, but it's uh if I can be as natural and as long as I'm gonna be who I can maintain and not change, and that's why you I mean back to the show, and once you yourself all if when you're you for yourself all the time, you're not too worried about either either we're gonna fit their fit their restaurant or not. I can't pretend to be someone else that I'm not because I've got a problem I want to talk to them again. Yeah. I want to ring them up again and deal with them, and they go, Wow, you're not you're not the guy that um was in a suit the other day. Yeah I thought we were gonna get this real polished deal. I'm like, no, you're gonna get me and the phone's gonna answer and it's me in the car driving my son's basketball.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

Yeah. I think people appreciate that though too. I think you know that's the one thing you can't is like you can't in business, or I found like when I came in, there was no um like blueprint in how to do it, there was no roadmap. No, the only like projection that I had was like how white fellas do it. You know, you've got to show up like this and find your niche and market like that, and rah rah. And I was like, all right, I'll give that a crack, but then you sort of just have to carve out the way that feels right for you, for you to have that longevity, I think. And and it's all about the relationship. So if you're not yourself and you're trying to be someone you're not, people know, you know, they know you're getting they're like, I'm not gonna deal with you. And so, you know, sometimes I I remember when I first started, I would present in certain ways with governments and clients, and and now I'm like, look, we're gonna get things wrong. We're not actually not the expert, and that's probably the worst thing to say when people are giving me money to be an expert. We are the expert here, but we'll take your money and no, but yeah, it's just it's just like I think just being yourself is like such an uh an important business quality, and you know, there's there's such a cookie-cutter approach, and I think people really appreciate you just being being you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Totally. You're spot on, like people can smell that something's up, like if you're not yourself. Yeah, like we are very good, humans are very good at usually picking up something's it's not them.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:43

Yeah. Why would I invest if like it don't feel right? It's gotta feel right too, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah, what do they call that? That meter. I don't know. My wife says it all the time, like a bullshit meter.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

Yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

Like you know, when some yeah, pretty much. You kinda know that's not the deal. That's a bit too bit too vanilla or a bit too plastic. Yeah. And I usually I'm I'm horrible at hiding when I think someone's being a little bit over the top or they're being a bit too presentable. I'm like, and my wife will go try elbow me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

It's all over your face.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

I'm like, nah, out, we're going, we're not hanging out, we've got to go, something's come up, we're out of here. Like, she's like, bro, you gotta be more kind, and but you know what? Yeah, on the other side of maybe a good, a natural, a good, healthy conversation, people open up, as you probably know, you know, as you through your industry, people open up when you just give them a bit of extra time past the past the walls.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:39

Um, I think it's another reason why black fellas are like inherently entrepreneurial because they spend that time to get to know who are they selling to, who are they working with, let's do this together. Not just like looking at people as you know, target markets, but relationships. And I mean, for anyone who's listening who's thinking about going all in on something like this, or you know, thinking about pursuing their own business or their own idea, or just maybe lacking a bit of confidence in themselves to take that step in their idea. Got any words of wisdom or advice that you'd impart to any of the mob who yeah have watched what you've done on TV and and the the black business, which is a monumental growth in like such a short amount of time in this wild ride. Yeah. Any tips, any advice, any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

I don't know if I'm in the position to be the person that people go to, which is you know, I've always found that the people that know more than you or are professionals in their field, they are almost like aching to be asked, can you help me? Yeah. Don't do you know what it like, yeah they love it. Yeah, they love it. Go ask for help, go ask, don't be afraid to go to. I went to Sharon, like a tea master, a world-renowned tea master. I mean, given I had a relationship with her, but I there's not there's lots of people that I don't have personal friendships with that I've gone, hey, I've got to hire someone. I've never hired someone before. They're an executive assistant and a HR person, they're asking for this wage. What do I do? All right, call me in five minutes. And it's like, I've got I've got lots of friends that are in, but you don't even need to be mates with them. You could easily meet someone in your networks. Yeah, I'm sure everyone's got someone around that they could ask that might know someone, even if they don't you know who the right person to ask. Ask me if you want some connections to someone. But if you want to build something or I don't know brand, I don't know what how to do my taxes. Come on, like we're in the world of the internet. ChatGTP can teach you a lot. Yeah, go to Google and type it in. Like, I just find that. Yeah, and what do they say? Just start. But I would ask for help. Yeah. Some people need to know from the pros is this a good idea, even though they do know it. Is this a good idea? Like, yeah, just be careful of the taxes, be careful that you don't go too heavy on the MOQs and buy five thousand stickers. Just go three hundred stickers. Just start, oh yeah, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

I think just getting your idea out. If it's if it's a business idea or start a podcast or I'm having this conversation with myself right now because I've got to get on TikTok ASAP.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:08

Yeah. I feel like the ship sailed for me, but good luck for you. I wish you the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

It's like and LinkedIn. I've got like it's they're big at the moment for businesses and building brand and relationships and especially the CEO. There's so many big crew that are doing it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

And sadly, like you genuinely have to jump on and and you have to. It's part of the the part of the parcel. But I don't know if they're really pick beautiful pieces of advice, you know, ask for help. I mean, that's what comes with people who have experience and wisdom is just that knowing and that guidance. Be willing to listen, I think, to the advice and know that you've got like, you know, some learning to do. And and I think you're right. We live in a world where we are all connected. And with that, you know, one thing when I started this business is I sort of got out like my contact list, like literally my phone book and my email contacts. And I just started to map out like who's in this space, who, who's gonna be helping, who who can I ask for this? And you know, it takes a bit of humility to say, hey, I don't know, but it's yeah, this is and like you say, people really are they want to share. Like it's like when you're yarning with someone and you feel a bit shame. It's like people love yarning about themselves. Just ask some questions and listen, you know, you'd be surprised at what comes at you. You actually don't need to know everything, believe it. Look, real talk, you don't need to know everything. I still don't know a lot at all. We've been in business for four years, and I say not openly, but you know, to my partner, like most of the time I feel like we're still improvising.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:45

And it's with the same ingredients of like connection, being committed, trying to have discipline, getting the right people around me. Like there's ingredients that pad out that out, but I'm still very much improvising, making mistakes, getting things wrong, fumbling through this, and then starting again.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

I like it that I like it how that I think that is what makes us not cookie cutters. Like if you had a script, that's not your jam. Like it's not that's not your offer.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:16

No, your offer. And it's very hard to sell that. Like, we could be this this day and that the next.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

Come to a come to it, come to a come to a session where we don't know what's gonna happen. It's it's right up your alley, it'll really get you on the right track. Exactly. But ain't it kind of the truth? Like, come with nothing, like yeah, come with everything to learn and soak up. Don't think you know it all. Oh, it's good, it's good. This is really this feels like a therapy session, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:48

I've really enjoyed just sitting down with you today. I mean, it's you're just a joy. You're just a joy to be around. You've got such wonderful energy. No matter what you do, it's gonna be successful because you've got yeah, the the head and the heart there. And yeah, just had a good laugh along the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

I'm sweating from laughter and things like that. It's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:07

Thank you so much for being on the show today, Troy. It's been a pleasure. I am so excited to see where you go next. We'll be following. Where can people who are listening along and want to come and get some of your deadly teas? We're talking Aussie Brecki, Minty Green, Kakadoo Sunset, little bit of lemon myrtle for your ritual. You like that plug? No, where can people follow along? And more importantly, where can people come and buy your tea?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

We're we're a small biz, so you know you can get me on socials. It's me, blackbrews.com, B-L-A-K-B-R-E-W S. But our website, I we've got stockers. We are trying to get some more credible ones. But at the same time, we if you order online, it's coming from us, we're packing it. As much as I'd like to say stockers are great, you don't know how much stock they're moving or might not have spoken to them for six months, it could be kind of old stock. I don't know. Come and and if you're ever in Geelong, down in Waterong Country, come down to um our warehouse, we're always around. We're also though, Carolyn, I don't know how when this will air, but by the time this might air, Bullen Bullen will be open, which is the new cultural centre's name down in Geelong that used to be called Narana, and that has just reopened to the public this coming Monday, where we will be the cafe operators, it'll be a Black Bruce Cafe. So we're opening up our first bricks and mortar. It couldn't have happened in a better area to a better community at a better time. And we've always been asked to kind of where can we come and drink your tea and meet you guys? Well, you're gonna have a spot from uh the 31st of March.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:40

Wow, that is so exciting to have a place going from your like hole in the wall to TV to now. And Nirana's such a place is significant. So people who might not know, it's like attached to the Aboriginal co-op there. They've got it been handed back. It's now an Aboriginal hand, it's a part of like this big reclamation that flaggy and the crew do, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

So yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

How deadly to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

It's good times down here in Geelong, and yeah, some great, great, great people involved, and community have been waiting kind of for just the right time to really take it on. We've got so many deadly people here, the young people down here, us old fellas, if you call us, that are are still wanting to, you know, bring up the youngies and work together. And that we already had a um it's a mob thing recently with Nari. It was so good, and that was kind of the first time that we all the community were invited down there, and we had K Eat and Dreaming Now and Philly, and it was so cool to be sitting on the grass under those gums with the with the boomerang classic um stage at the back there. But it's gonna be really busy, and they're already booked out for all of April in terms of like conferences and lunches, and we're just all chomping at the bit to get in there and give community a space to go to regular, you know, a hub. It's gonna be cool. Oh, how deadly.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:01

I was gonna say if you need an excuse to get away from the hustle and bustle and and a part of the slice of paradise that Troy was talking about earlier, um, with the coast and your dog and your family, you know, get on down there. It's beautiful to get out of Melbourne. We all could use a bit of a reset of our nervous systems and connect with some of these mob doing deadly things. I'll be down there, I'll have some tea, I'll be waiting. Any any Johnny cakes and scones, you reckon, will be in the menu.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

Gotta get a recipe off someone, but uh yeah, I'm sure someone will drop them off if I can't make them.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:37

Yeah. Oh, deadly. Well, I can't wait to see what's next, and thank you so much for being on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

You're more than welcome. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Heat.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:46

Thank you so much for listening, you mob. If you are vibing this season of Yarning Up, then please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast from to show us some love, rate, and review. Alternatively, you can get in contact and give us some feedback by visiting www.carolinecow.com.au