Matt Moncrieff- First Nations Native Food & Food Sovereignty

In this episode, Caroline is joined by TV star and proud Yamatji man Matt Moncrieff from  Gwoonwardu in Western Australia. Matt is a bushfood advocate with a large platform after featuring on Seven's My Kitchen Rules, and has made headlines again recently for his petition calling supermarkets to begin stocking native foods in order to support indigenous businesses, share indigenous culture, and promote the natural flavors and cuisine of our land.

In this episode, Caroline and Matt yarn about his inspiration for starting the petition, as well as the attention, support, and prospects it has attracted. Matt also talks about his relationship with food, how his community and family have influenced him, as well as his favorite ingredients and meals and how he was able to bring them to light on My Kitchen Rules. They also dive into questions abut the current food industry, the relationship between food and community, and the businesses and organisations out there who are already fighting behind the scenes to bring our ingredients and expertise into the forefront of Australian cuisine.

To learn more about Matt and his work, follow him on Instagram @_mattmoncrieff and have a read of his article for the Urban List here, and buy some of his candles here. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show! 

Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here! 

We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.

This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Podcast. Unite our voices.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

This podcast is brought to you by On Track Studio. Welcome to Yarning Up, a podcast that showcases stories of First Nations excellence. To help us learn and unlearn Australia's history to work towards a better future. I'm your host, proud Barbara Woman and founder of Blackwater Coaching and Consulting, Caroline Cowell. This podcast was taped on the sacred, stolen and unceded Aboriginal lands of the Warundari people of the Kulan Nation. I pay my deepest respects to them, my elders, your elders, and all owners of country at this beautiful place that we call home. Well, as someone who loves food and as someone who has been experimenting with bush foods and native foods themselves, I'm so excited for today's guest. I've been trying to get this lad on our podcast for quite some time, and the ancestors have tested us. But I'm so grateful that you're finally here, Matt, and we can finally talk all things bush food, all things you've done since you've left My Kitchen Rules. So thank you so much for being here today, Matt.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Oh, thanks for having me. I know our ancestors have tested us, but we're here, we're we're ready to go. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah. Well, some of you, Mom, might be familiar with Matt Moncrief, who was on My Kitchen Rules, one of the semi-finalists. The first show in the fifth, the first team, sorry, in the show's 15-year history to feature native Australian ingredients. And I I can't wait to sort of dive into that experience and what it was like for you. But as we do on this show, we always like to start by getting to know who you are. So can you tell us who's your mob and a little bit about yourself, please?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. So uh Matt Moncrief, I've got a huge, huge black family back home in Western Australia. I'm a Munaru Wadri uh Yamiji from Western Australia, so the Gascoigne region, um, Kwanuaradu. It's called Canavan. It's about 10 hours' drive north of Perth. It's a beautiful little town. That's where the best produce comes from. I've come from an incredible family. My grandma was born actually on the rabbit-proof fence, Medallia Station, and my granddad was born under a tree at Philly Station just up the road as well. So I come from a uh a long line of strong Aboriginal people. So um shout out to all the good mob back home.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Bless. Big shout out to your family. What a legacy! Wow, that's that's incredible. So 10 hours from Perth, your mob of Yeah, yeah, 10 hours from Perth.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So um not many people know where Carnarvon is. It's yeah, 10 hours north. So the only town in between is um is Geraldton. So uh we don't stop there though. Geraldton and Carnarvon have a bit of a you know, in the footy, they have they have a bit of a white butt. But no, yeah, little country town boy grew up on country. My um my mum was black, my dad was white, but I grew up with my mum, so you know, the culture isn't the colour of your skin, you know. I'm I'm light-skinned blackfella, but you know, as they say, no matter how much uh no matter how much um milk you put in a tea, it's still tea at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

That's so true. Yeah, I feel you ask fair skinned blackfellas, you know, it's always about yeah, how um the colour of who we are and what's in our heart. And yeah, it's nice to hear about you and your family. You know, were were other people in your family cooks? Was there was was there any inspiration which led you on your path to becoming a chef and a cook and and bringing all this native produce into the way that we think about culinary experiences?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So my mum's gonna hate me for saying this, but the the way I learnt to cook is because she couldn't cook.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

So sorry, mum.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So uh sorry, Cheryl, back home, but um, yeah, she couldn't cook to save her life. But you know, she was a single mum, worked three jobs, and I had to eat, so I improvised and whatever was in the fridge. I cooked and you know, she provided, and and my grandma was an incredible cook, you know. She um she cooked amazing foods, and and all my family are hunters or uh cooks on the other side. So yeah, big family of of people who just lived off the land and and yeah, I'm super, super happy and super proud to come from a little town like that. And growing up on country is just there's just no better, nothing better than that.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah, how special. How special to hear that that on both sides of your family, you know, looking at produce, but also yeah, how do we ethically source our food through hunting and and that repreciation for what this country can provide in terms of food sources?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Absolutely, yeah. People don't actually know that we've got 5,600 native bush foods and botanicals out there. So yeah, so we've got so much food out there, but we import it all from overseas. About 20 of them make it to the shelves, and that's it. And you see those, you know, like lemon myrtle, um, saltborsch, pepperberry, you see the main ones, but there's so much more out there that that I'm out here, you know, getting louder and and trying to promote because it's on our doorstep, it's at our roundabouts, it's at our you know, at our beck and call. And we've got um we've got these incredible businesses out there ready just to be tapped into, that's run by mob, that's you know, passed down through generations how to pick it, how to cook it, and it's just it's just there, you know. So why we import from overseas is just wild to me.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Wow, I that is so fascinating. So 5,600 native plants or species that we could potentially eat or bush medicine or that we could use in our kind of everyday cooking.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Exactly. And so and it's not like you know, we need to really upskill in using these. We've got things like native thyme, native basil, that we can swap out just for basil and thyme, you know. For pepper, we can swap it out for pepperberry. Instead of salt, use saltbush. You know, we've got these native ingredients that are great for the the the environment that are available, that will also give our mob jobs because we've eaten these foods for so long, and we've our bodies are in tuned for these native foods as mob. It's not the Mediterranean diet that our that our bodies love, it's it's these foods that are grown right here on our doorstep.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah, I don't because I don't think the colonized diet's good for anyone. Like, you know, I think a lot of us, I know over the years I've become gluten-free, lactose intolerant, you know, just things that have been introduced to our bodies. We're not meant to break them down. And so, yeah, I feel like you're right. There's such a benefit, and how and and it's so important that our mob get an opportunity, be the kind of front and running of this, like Providence, where things are at, farming, because you're right, a lot of this is done overseas. Can you tell us a little bit about that? So, Australia, what imports a lot of native produce from other countries?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

And we're also losing a lot of our native foods to international countries like Brazil. They love our finger lines, love it so much that now finger lines are becoming native to Brazil, which is wild. You know, these foods are just that they're untapped as well. So people don't know what finger lines are if you go to England and and other countries like that. There are some countries that are really in tune with our with our our foods, but only specific foods. Our Australian foods, our national foods, are our native foods. It's not Lamingtons, it's not meat pies, it's not all of that kind of stuff. It's this food that's that that we thrived on and you know kept us strong and black and vibrant for 60 plus thousand years. So why aren't we using it? So that's why I started this petition. But even going back to my kitchen rules, I was um, I had no idea that because I've never watched the show, I need to say, I never watched the show before I went on it, and they were like, Oh, do you want to be on the show? And I'm like, Okay, absolutely, went on it, and the producer said we've never had an Indigenous team or an indigenous person cooking native foods. And I was just like, Well, it's been 15 years, why not? Like, why are you so late to it? We had like three Italian teams on it, there's always Italian teams, there's always all these different culinary international uh foods on the menu, but never our native foods, and it's like, why not? There's so many incredible black fellas out there that make the most amazing pots of kangaroo tail stew, you know what I mean? Like, whip that up in chat. Like, I I had a kangaroo tail on my kitchen rules, and people were just like, they had no idea. But there were there were also some foods that I wasn't allowed to use, so like turtle, I love turtle, I make an incredible turtle soup, and I wasn't allowed to use it because the whiter Australia didn't want to eat a cute little turtle, and I'm like, well, that's my native food, so uh, you know, like what why are we not celebrating these foods? And in the lead up to my restaurant, the teams around the table were also worried about what they were gonna get, and it's like, but you guys have lived here your whole life, all they knew was like wichety grubs and kangaroo and emu, and that's it. Whereas and they were scared I was gonna whip up some wichety grubs, and then I had a had a had a thought and I was like, maybe I should whip up like a a a wichety grub cocktail, you know. And I would just like, but then it wasn't witchety grub season, so and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, I think that's really interesting what you're saying, and I really want to unpack your experience on the show, but before I do that, just that that notion of I guess of people being connected or disconnected from land and therefore being disconnected from the vibrant food sources, you know, I think most people wouldn't even know that the humble macadamia is Australian, right? And now it's like the I remember it being growing up the bougie nut, like it cost a fortune to get, you know, a lot of imports. And because we didn't really manage that food source natively, now it has been picked up overseas. And so I think there is this like unconscious not knowing what what is here, what existed here, people and the food. So the thing that I really admired about your time on the show was that there's still this sort of I guess viewpoint that yeah, this food is for a culinary experience, it's bougie, you've got to go to a fine dining, but you kind of brought it into people's everyday homes. So I want to ask you about that. Like, what was the experience like for you being on the show and being the first black fellow too, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Exactly. Yeah, well, I um well, the the hardest thing was, well, it was two things. It was actually sourcing the food. So we we get a budget for our instant restaurant, so we get a certain amount of money. Everyone else could just go to Coles Woolley's and get their foods and go home. I had to go to all these specialty markets, all these specialty stores when they're open. We had to pre-plan it beforehand to get crocodile, to get all of that stuff, and it was just wild to me. And my budget, I blew Channel 7's budget out so far.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Pay the rent now, Gavin.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I know I should have gone more actually, but like Kakado Plums, for example, was a hundred dollars a kilo, and it's just insane. Whereas you could get normal plums at the at Woolies for I don't know, whatever it is, five dollars or probably a million dollars now, though. But you know, like all the imported stuff is so much cheaper, and the reason is is because there's a there's a want and a need for it, and because we haven't tapped into our native foods properly yet, but well, Wurz and Coles are so silly because it's right there, and like they could just do so much for this country if they just tapped into it and and utilized what's right there. You create jobs for mob, you know, like and and the way we we get our foods is with bush tomatoes, for example. If you went out and picked a bush tomato and just ate it, it would taste gross. But the aunties have passed down through generations that you pick the bush tomatoes, grab the dirt, rub them in the dirt, it takes that film off it, then you eat it. And that's a song line that's been passed down for generations to eat this food. So not only is it just culinary experience, but it's also keeping culture and tradition alive, but it's also giving back jobs to mob and yeah, just carrying on our legacy as the deadliest mob on earth.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Wow, it's so interesting to hear that I guess why people were yeah, just racing down to coals to get their everyday ingredients, you had to, yeah, kind of like forage, as also I understand, and go and seek out these real specialty products that just aren't accessible. And it makes you just think about like I guess food sovereignty as well. Like how why shouldn't black fellows should have access to their their native foods for their well-being, for their you know, for their nutrition as well. So it really should be available. And I know that you've led up a huge campaign after the fact around getting this on our shelves, which, you know, it's so you know, you can never stop a black fellow from just going doing the thing. But yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

And then exactly, and and that, and that's to your point, you know, there was a point in our history recently where where the colonizers hit the pause button or the mute button on our culture and our tradition, and we weren't allowed to speak language. We, you know, that we all know the history, we don't need to go into that. But what what what we're what I'm doing is I'm just turning that volume back up, you know, and just celebrating our mob because we've been here for so long and and we need to be celebrated, you know. We we've just got so much to be tapped into, but it has to be tapped into in the right way.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, it's so interesting. Like thinking about my kind of experience with this. So I grew up, yes, similarly, mum, single mum, five kids. She was also a terrible cook. I mean, when I say terrible, like we, you know, she would just boil up all the veggies, those season, and you'd she'd make us sit there and until we had an eat, like that was all we would get. And I still have this like food trauma about her making us sit there until nine, ten o'clock at night. I'd be like wailing into my food thinking this pumpkin's gonna like kill me or something, just traumatized. But yeah, I guess it was just food to just get through by your family. And it's not until recently, I guess, in the last five years or so since our family have had land back that they have started to cultivate and harvest and I guess observe what's there and bring and regenerate that back. And so it really is like a part of this decolonization process for us all to return back to our food and on our on our land food. And it's just so beautiful that you're kind of leading this conversation and and helping us kind of lift our gaze about what is possible for us. So, yeah, mad respect for you on that. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And do you know what? Do you know what it started off as a as quite a selfish venture, really, because I left my little country town where my uncles would go and get the food, my aunties would cook up this big pot of stew and damper and all that kind of stuff. But then I had to leave, you know, to chase my dreams, to chase my career and all of that. And when I left, I realized that this food wasn't there available for me. And I just wanted to go get a kangaroo tail, chuck a pot of stew on, and and that stew would just transport me back to a time with my family, you know, when I was feeling homesick, I would take a big mouthful of that kangaroo tail stew, and I would be there with my cousins and my mum and my grandma and my family, and it would just take me home while I'm living in Melbourne or London or wherever I was. Um, it would just take me back to a time or back home when I was feeling homesick. And it just, it really has that it's like it's like a picture. A bowl of food that your grandma made you is like a is like a time machine, really, that transport you back, you know, to that comfortable home where they've got the pot on the stove and all the kids are running around screaming, and all the and the aunties are playing cards at the table and the family's just all around. So that it was really just it was me really wanting to connect back with my culture back home while chasing my dreams of my career. And and I'm like, well, why we've got a Mexican Isle, an English Isle, we've got New Zealand foods all in these shelves. Why is there not kangaroo, emu, all of our foods in our shops? Because it's not just me that would love this food, it would be people coming in from internationally as well, wanting to try our foods. And our foods, like I said, it's not it's it's not pies and lamingtons, like I love pies and lemming tons, don't get me wrong, but that's not our native foods. Our native foods is kangaroo, emu, turtle, dogo, all of that. My mouth's watering as I say it.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

I know, I'm thinking, oh, I'm so hungry listening to this. We'll be back, you mob, right after this short break. I mean, for the for the mob who, you know, are non-Indigenous listeners or even the people who are listening internationally, if we were sitting around like a campfire or, you know, in your home, your family home, you mentioned kangaroo tail, what what what other foods would you kind of see on your on your family table? And are they curries? Are they, you know, are they looking at the meat? Because that's the thing I feel like blackfellas or our family do really well, is they're really resourceful. They'll put it's like peasant food, but it it works. It's curries, it's rich, it's full of veggies, it's full of good things. Can you help us understand what are some of the types of things that we would see at your table?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Oh, well, you'd see, well, it depends on what the what the uncles went out and got that day. But if they went to the coast and they got a turtle, you know, we'd chuck a turtle on the fire and just grab a knife and just cut that meat off the back of a turtle shell and just eat that with a bit of salt and make. But you know what? Our food is, like you said, it's very um, you know, you don't need to uh add a million spices and it and all of that. You know, we had the basics, we had rations, we had, and we made it taste incredible. So turtle is absolutely one of my favourites. But yeah, you never you never miss a pot of kangaroo on the st a pot of kangaroo tail stew or kangaroo on the on the stove at any of my mob's house, a damper, you know, all of that kind of stuff is just it's nothing like anywhere else in the world, and it's sustainable and green and all of that. And previously there's been um policies and stuff to put in place to stunt food, export, like even I think emu, I think one of the things on the show is how you reveal your menu. And so, okay, how I want to reveal my menu is I ended up doing a three-step, so instead of entree main and dessert, I did voice, treaty, and truth. And yeah, it's and so I changed it around. But how I wanted it is I wanted to do an emu nest on the table, and they grab an emu egg and crack it open and pull the menu out like that. But but I found out that you it's eight hundred dollars a year or something to have to be able to actually just have emu eggs, a lice, a license. And I was and and the producers were like, you can't do this because we'd need to pay eight hundred dollars for a license to show emu eggs. And I'm like, Well, I can just call my uncle and he can go and get a couple of emu eggs, and they're like exactly, and they were like, No, there's these, you know, it's against the law to have emu eggs, and I'm like, Well, that's just insane, but there's these historical policies, historical ways that are set up around our foods that that kind of stop us flourishing in that in that sector, and food is just food like you go to any mob's house, and the first thing you do is look in the fridge.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Yeah, no, it's it's really an interesting point because I think people, you know, I know we mentioned we wouldn't talk about it, but you gotta talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Oh, you gotta talk about it. And and like you you actually said it right, it's decolonizing, and it's just unpicking all that stuff that people don't realise because it's ingrained in the country or in you know the region or whatever it is, it's ingrained. So what we're doing is just unpicking and and letting us, letting our voice turning that volume back up, like I said, you know, we've been silenced for too long. Our voice is going to be amplified now, sis.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, that's it. And because, you know, I think people forget that Australia as a so-called Australia as a continent, you know, the reason why it was so appealing for settlers at the time was because of rural and pastoral expansion. So we have, you know, one of the best beef industries. Like it's it's the economic benefits from having land because of what it can yield is so important. And so Australia presented a huge lot. Land it actually advertised as come over and get your bit of land. And there was mining agrable soil. We've got really great soil, and we also have huge rural pastoral lands. And so it wouldn't be surprising that still in this day and age there there's some ways to keep us out of that economic benefit from having access to our own providence, our own farming, and our own agricultural practices. It wouldn't be surprised if it's part of that grand plan.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Exactly. And that's exactly right. They they didn't see us, you know, as a as a vibrant culture. You know, we had fish traps that uh Uncle Bruce Pasco wrote Dark Emu and just really highlighted exactly what was going on in Australia at the time. If no one's read Dark Emu, you know, go and read it. He's the most incredible. It's the most incredible book. And I actually met him at the Aboriginal Economic Development Forum in Darwin last year, and I said, Why was your book so famous? Because like we've been shouting and and really trying to bring all this stuff to light, and it just sometimes falls on deaf ears. And he goes, Because I spoke to them in their way, in their language, and that's what really sparked it. And I was just like, they just weren't really interested in listening. And it was I think I think I think it's turning now though. But then in saying that, we just saw what happened with the referendum. But I I feel like we just need to take it now. It's no more asking, it's no more none of that. It's the we were here first, it's our land. There's science to prove that we've been here for this long, and we're not gone anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Absolutely. And I think one of the most sort of, like you say, with Bruce Pasco's, I guess, findings and you know, echoing other people who've also shared those same sentiments is that there was that sort of myth that Aboriginal people were nomadic hunter-gatherers, that we were just kind of aimlessly walking through bushes, you know, finding things as we go. Of course, we moved with the food sources, right? Like we moved around as the seasons changed to higher ground, to lower ground. But also, you know, I think the thing that he really highlighted is that we had agricultural practices, ways to reduce our energy and create food, which is what, like, which is what it means to be human, right? Is to have ways to have energy, calorie intake, and reduce the amount of work you have to do. We're not just going to sit around and you know look for, you know, a berry over here and a bush over there. Of course, we had ways to sort of farm that. So it's so, it's such a fascinating conversation. But I feel like, yeah, Australia is just catching up. And also a lot of black fellas. You know, you mentioned before 5,600 native produce. What are some of the things that you enjoy cooking with the most? Like, so myself, I've just been dabbling in lemon myrtle and baked goods. I love dampers and and breads and baked goods, but I know there's a plethora of things, but I'm also a little bit like afraid to experiment. So, yeah, what are some of the things that you like to cook with? And what are some of the things that we can like substitute and introduce into our day-to-day like now, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Absolutely. And I think we're going to be always learning because every single because this country is so big that every single region or mob or land is totally different. We've got rainforests, we've got saltwater mold, we've got river mob, we've got desert mold, which is completely different food. So in the river, you get, you know, all the river fish, all that kind of stuff. On the coast, you get, like I said, turtle, you get dugong, you get all of that. And then you go inland and you've got the kangaroo and the emu and the goana, we call it your good you back home. Like, it's just totally different. And so we're constantly learning as well. And the thing is, right, is that chefs, the indigenous chefs in Australia, you could count how many on one hand, you know. Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. And Mindy, Mindy Woods from My Kitchen Rules, I met her last year, and she is a sis on a mission. Like, she is absolutely incredible. Uh, she's just so knowledgeable. I love meeting a mob from different cultures as well to teach me like their ways and their foods. And like, so so what I love cooking is back home, it's all kangaroo, it's all the meats, you know, and then it's just pairing it with things. So it's all the meats, it's kangaroo, it's emu, it's goanna, it's all of that. But then I I like to change it up a little bit. So I like to modernize it. So, like doing a pasta, putting Warragle greens in the pasta sauce. And Waragle Greens is like using is like a mix between rocket and spinach. So it's not foods that are completely insane, you know, it's it's foods that we can substitute for foods we already eat. So lemon myrtle, you know, pop that in like a lemon cake. Waddle seed is incredible in chocolate, in chocolate cakes, things like that. There's just so much out there. And and I have gotten this question a lot. It's how do we how do we do it? You know, how do we start? And it's just start really slowly. So instead of salt in some things, use salt bush. Instead of pepper, use pepperberry. Instead of time, like international time, use native time. Instead of tomatoes, use bush tomatoes. So it and then just work your way up like that. So, but but but the thing is is we have to pull it right back, and it needs to be available to us. Because I work, you know, I work a normal nine to five, insane job. I don't have time to go on forage, which I've what when I started this um petition, people were like, Oh, why don't you just go get your own foods? Like, why don't you just go on forage? And I'm like, Oh, do I just finish working at six o'clock and then I'll just quickly go on forage? Yeah, and and then I'll have dinner at midnight and then get up for work. Like, it doesn't work like that, you know. Like, if their foods can be available for them, why can't our foods be available for us? And there's an entire industry in the back of this waiting. There's aunties from the uh First Nations Bush Fruits and Botanicals Association that have been doing this for forever and they've got all the knowledge, you know. So once I kind of got my platform, I I I they reached out to me and they said, you know, what we've been trying to do in like 40 years, you did in this really brief kind of stint on this reality show. And I was just I was kind of shocked because this isn't my this isn't for me. I want to hand this over to them, I want to give them this platform because they deserve it, and I'll learn I'll learn from them because you know they they need the recognition because they've been fighting this fight just like all our mob for so long, and this is just one aspect of it, this is just food, but food encompasses all of it, and one thing is is that food, when you're talking about culture, it's very hard to appropriate. Food is is is an appreciation, you don't appropriate it. Yeah, so it's really easy for non-Indigenous bowl. I really urge them just go and try it, you know. And the more we buy it, the more we do it, the more the need is there, the more the industry builds up, the more we get jobs in the background, the more we start running our own businesses, and then we're this flourishing, thriving mob with all this industry and our foods that have been here and pass down, you know, how to cook it for years and years and years. You know, we didn't have history books, we don't have all of that kind of stuff. We passed it down through song lines and knowledge and and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Oh gosh, that you're such a ball of wisdom. But this is why representation on TV is really important. It's not just about representing, but it's the responsibility back with what we're gonna do, and to hear that you brought elders together and to sort of like you know, really shine the light on this issue around food accessibility. And yeah, it's just and I I love that what you said. You can't appropriate food, you appreciate it. Like it's so, so true. It's something that it really connects to a heart, a feeling, an emotion, a story, and that's really hard to kind of appropriate when you're really stopping in that in that space. My partner, he he's Greek fella, and his yeah, he's 98 years young, and she passes, has passed down over the years her family, like pittas and spanacopitas and all of those. It's incredible. It's incredible, you know, all of the yummies, and you know, just I guess these are like 66-year-old family recipes that they've been able to keep passing down. And yeah, it doesn't matter who you are, it's the thing that really connects us, is food as people, you know, it's that it's coming back to that tribal way of being. It's it's something so special. That's such a beautiful way to put it. We can't appropriate it. There is that deep, deep appreciation. And maybe when people start to actually eat it, they can understand where things come from. Because when we get something in our shelves and culls and woolies, you don't know where it's come from, do you? You just see it on your plate and you think, oh, yeah. But when you actually like, wow, this has come from, you know, this Warrugal Green has come from this place, and this is what maybe it might change the way we look at many things like our health, the climate, you know, First Nations sovereignty here.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Exactly, exactly. And everyone comes together with food. You know what I mean? Everyone, it's something that we obviously all do to survive, but it's also something that we do when we go out with our friends, when we invite people over, there's always food there. There's always so you know, it's um and and it's also that international lens as well, is that when they fly in, like when I've when I backpack to Europe, I wanted to try all the different foods from all the different countries. But when you fly in here, you've really got to look for it. And I'm like, and and do you know what really, really so I started this petition, right? And I didn't not expect it. I'm just a big mouth black fella who's trying to like fight for our rights back and our back that and then I've always been like that. But you know what I really want? Why do we have a Chinatown in the middle of every single city? Why don't we have a blackfella town? Why don't we have a blackfella town in the middle of every city with you know like with Larakia foods, with Baianu foods back home, with Yungal foods, with you know, Gadigal foods, with you know, all that kind of stuff. Like, why don't we have a a hub like that in the middle of these cities with our foods from these different places? That's my when I close my eyes, that's the dream I envision for Australia.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Oh my god, could you imagine that would be incredible to be able to taste a bit of all countries and wow, how special.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Exactly. You can you can see that, can't you? Like if you close your eyes, you know there's Torres Show Island of Food at this cafe. Oh no, we had that last week, so this week we'll go and have Bungalung, we have a bunjulung feed this, you know, like where that would just be incredible. Just a whole hub in these cities of just our foods, not just one specialty restaurant that's you know, that's struggling because it let's have a full community of these restaurants in the middle of these cities, like why not? Like, why not?

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Like push the check, Netflix, come on board.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

That's it, that's it, right? But like like people don't realize they kind of put us in this umbrella and go, oh, well that's indigenous food or first age food or whatever it is. But no, it's different every season. If you think of Australia like Europe, they've got so much different foods across the board from Spanish, Italian, French, and they're just really close to each other. So that's how we are.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

It's so true. Like, even here in Nam, we've got obviously Mabu Mabu, which is headed up by Nawny, who's doing incredible things, but there possibly would be even a dissonance for people who are getting that food from an island, like or an island, a Toro Strait Islander influence, and whilst they're relying on innovative ingredients, but to know that that is not from this place, this is not from Wurundry Land. So having I can feel it, I can see it. We need to call that vision into life because that is that's the future really of us being able to really think about our own health and well-being too, and and what nourishes us. You know, I know that over the last few years, just looking at food as less of a thing, but how do we feel fueled and energy and what do we get nourishment from? And how do we be present with food and how do we enjoy it? So you have mentioned the work that you did. So shortly after featuring as a semi-finalist on My Kitchen Rules, you essentially led Spearheaded a movement uh which was around, yeah, I guess sort of um talking about introducing native ingredients to our major supermarkets, to Kohl's and Woolies. And I believe, you know, thousands and thousands of people participated in signing this petition. Like I think somewhere I read 12,000 signatures in a really short period of time. Can you talk me through the petition and the process and I guess yeah, what's happening next in this space?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Yeah, well, it um it started with me just kind of sitting at home going, I just want to go to Kohl's that's across the road with Woolies and just buying my food and coming home and eating my food. The market's closed. Like it's it's just ridiculous that we have to go to a specialty market, you know. We go to Woolies and we see these rotisserie chickens. I want to see a kangaroo tail spinning on those rotisseries, you know. I w I want to go in and grab that instead of a instead of a cooked choke, you know, uh nothing against the cooked chokes, but that's not our native food. So I was um I was just sitting at home and I was talking to my friends, and I don't know, I have no idea how it came about. But then I just started that petition and it just went off. And it was just I was on pretty much every single channel, every single radio station, and they're all like this is so obvious. Obvious thing. Why isn't it happening? And I and they kept asking me, and I said, Well, you tell me, you know, like I don't know why it's not happening. We've got these businesses ready to go. We don't we don't have them ready to go in the sense of you know, we've got all these food reading, like you've got to go back to the drawing board, all where it's called. And what was really amazing is once we got all of that, and once I got all of the um signatures, and once I got all the all all the media attention, Allworth actually reached out to me and said, We love this, we think it's incredible. So why don't you come in and present to our entire product development team, tell us exactly what you want. And I was like, Oh shit, I wasn't ready, you know, like I wasn't ready.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Usually we're used to asking for stuff and not being heard, so I was like, Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

And they called me and I was like, Oh shit, like they're actually listening, they're interested. And they called me and said, This is a no-brainer, we didn't even think about this. Like, come and present to us. And I went, Oh shit, what am I gonna present? I've got to fly to Sydney, it's in this auditorium, it's with the entire team from Woolworths that decide what foods go on the shelves. And I got a I think I reached out to one of the First Nations Bush Foods and Botanicals Association aunties, so there were four of them. Ani Dale, she runs My Dilly Bag up in Queensland, and she is spearheading. She sh if you want your native foods, go to her My Dilly Bag online, Queensland. She runs like cooking things and things like that. And so there's these people in the background that have been doing this for 40 years. So I was like, Well, I'm kind of just using my platform right now to amplify voices. I'm gonna bring Annie Dale down to Sydney. So I was like, Well, if you're gonna take me, you're gonna bring Annie Dale, and Annie Dale and I never met before, met the night before. I felt like I knew her my whole life, and we presented to uh to Woolworths, and they were just blown away. They were like, of course, like the I I remember and we cooked for her and we did a demonstration, we got him to eat the foods, and I remember one of the ladies who from Woolworths who ran the dip department, which I didn't know was a thing, but someone runs like the perishable department but focuses on dips, and she goes, We've had four dips forever, we've had like Suziki, homice, all that kind of stuff, and we've been looking to branch out forever, but we didn't know what to do. And you've just showed us so many different native foods that we can create dips out of. And I was just like, Exactly, it's just right there, ready for you. And she was like, Well, and Woolworths said, Well, how do we do it? And I said, Well, this is more for you to determine, you know. Build an Indigenous procurement team internally in Woolworths and get them to focus just on native foods because our foods or our businesses aren't at the capability or the capacity to stock the shelves just yet. But we've got, say, I don't know, 80 or something, 100% indigenous-owned businesses or companies that stock these foods or have an array of foods. If you just got bought one product from all of these 80 different businesses, you'd fill an entire shelf of native foods. So it's not that hard, you know what I mean? Just if you think about it, don't overwhelm yourself. And that's what I was saying. You know, tomorrow I don't want to walk in and see those kangaroo tails on the rotisserie, but in 10 years I want to see it. You know, we're gonna have to build up there. And and plus one thing that community or the non-agitation people don't know is we don't go off the fall seasons, we have our own seasons, we've got like six or seven seasons ourselves. So kakadu plums isn't gonna be available all year round, but substitute that for something else in that spot because they're thinking commercially, whereas you know, if it's not season and this food's not there, we're gonna have a gap. Well, then just fill it with something that's in season or freeze it and have it available in the frozen section. So it's it it's it sounds really huge, but it's actually not that big. It's building our mobile, building us back up to be able to supply, and once you get the demand there, the supply will increase and our businesses increase, and this whole sector of food that's just waiting to be tapped into will flourish, and and it's not it's not that hard. I think sometimes we think too big. Well, not too big, but I think that that we think things have to change overnight. They're obviously not going to change overnight, but if we if we just think about it in one step at a time, someone said to me once to eat an elephant, you start with just the first bite. You know what I mean? You start with the first bite, you don't eat the whole elephant at once, you just take one bite. That's how that's how we start, and and it's changing the narrative around the food. That's my goal, is like I said, you know, changing the narrative that our food's not not pies and lamingtons, it's this food that's thrived here for thousands, thousands, thousands of years. And and we are the knowledge holders to this. So go, you know, and I said this to Woolworths. I said, go to an auntie's table, go and sit down next to her with a nice cup of tea, and she will, you know, she would be more than happy to collaborate and and these businesses. Like I said, they're just sitting there waiting to be tapped into.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

I mean, it's so incredible to hear what you've done in terms of yeah, leading this conversation, but also bringing in people who have been in the space, like Aunt that you said from my dilly bag. And on um, on I think it might have been season two for our listeners, we had two fellas on the line from Bush to Bowl, and they are a native farming and garden practice. So you could get native plants for your gardens, and they also have a lot of native produce. And you're right, it's almost like yeah, these things don't change overnight, like changing our psyche around how we view native foods and having it accessible, but it's almost as if we need to also think about, yeah, like you say, increasing the supply chain, making it easier for our mobs to return back to our practices, return back to our farming, return back to having a supply chain to provide. Because a lot of the native produce that we see now, like to think about NAM here in in Melbourne, in Victoria, down south, we've got kind of two main, I guess, of suppliers. So Mabu Mabu, the restaurant, actually makes their own produce to sell commercially as well. And then we've got another mob, um, Melbourne Bush Food, which is sadly just about to close up. They're they're no longer talking.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Melbourne Bush Food is not Indigenous owned.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

They're not Indigenous, exactly right. And I think they've come under a little bit of scrutiny about that.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah, and and I think it's and uh like I I don't know him, but I I know he's um he's he wants to celebrate the food and all that kind of stuff. But it's also you need to do it in a way that we're involved, exactly. We're we're there, we're working with you, we're co-designing, we've got the knowledge, we've got all of this. So we need to be at the table because you know, this is this is our foods, this is we need to take that back. A lot of our our men in our mob, you know, there's that we don't really see our future sometimes. Like we don't really have, you know, as men, this is something I've really been thinking about recently, and I've had so many mob, both family and and extended family and in the community that have you know that haven't seen a way forward and that they've just kind of thought that uh ending it all was was you know, there was. no other way out but food men have been providers in our in our culture forever like give them back that cultural you know that that that the cultural knowledge that they have that they've grown up with they'll go out get our food supply it to these big shops they'll have something to actually actually you know hold on to and and have something to be proud of and it's bringing that culture and tradition in it it really breaks my heart because I've got a young nephew and we saw that that young boy recently who went to footy and got all that racism and you know like our men we it take it's really hard for us to speak and so just having having something and food and providing is something as men in our culture is something that we've done forever. You know all my uncles they go out in the morning and they sorry I was almost about to swear but they love it. You know they they come home with a full kangaroo or trailer full of kangaroo not one bit of that kangaroo from the nose to the tail is spared it's shared with the entire community they have a sense of purpose they have a sense of love they have a sense of appreciation and that's what we're missing as men as mob as well and I just and and this would really help just invigorate our culture and and it's not hard you know what I mean just give us just give us a little bit you know just these big corporations that are already ripping ourselves for billions of dollars just put some of that back into the community into our mob you'll see change tenfold it's I really appreciate you you sharing that and and you're so you're you're so right in saying that a lot of our uh I think about my brothers and cousins yeah have been so disempowered about where is our place and space and you know that that sense of purpose and sense of providing for mob you know a lot of the women run the shows in a lot of areas and that is such a beautiful way to bring this back to this holistic offering that this is important cultural business as much as it is about having really beautiful food and and having a place for our our fellas to really yeah play a role in that. Exactly and they have a huge role in that you know what I mean and just at the moment we're just struggling to see a purpose for ourselves and that's ingrained in us. It's you know we were the first astronomers were the first you know agricultures we're the first all of that I think Dampell was the first bread ever made I'm pretty sure and so like you know it's we're really missing that and I I really it really makes me sad because we are some of the most incredible people in the entire world and we hold so much knowledge. And you know what we're funny we are the funniest mob ever. Like you can just meet anyone from any any mob and you can just strike up a conversation and you laugh for 25 minutes for an hour you know just someone you never met.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

It's really one of the most gifted superpowers we've got amongst many but yeah the fact that we can be like crying around or be real staunch and then just be silly carrying on at the same time you're so right. But I love this you know I mean if we're gonna obviously put all of Matt's details and all the wonderful things he's doing in our show notes but you know maybe that's an invitation for our listeners you know if there are people out there that you know can contribute to this conversation about helping mob stay front and centre in these yarns it's a really important thing because these are billion dollar industries. These are ways this is a really neat way for us to return back to our culture return back to our land and also have some of this you know this slice of economic prosperity that this country offers through our our ways and our knowledges and our and our knowing and so I think it's a really multifaceted conversation and I think I'm really excited that we're having this yarn and yeah it's it's really prompted a lot in me. You know I you know how you think about when you go to a a shop and you get something that's like Australian made and it's got the little green and gold tick. Like could you imagine if we were to go and get like a bush, you know, bush tomato chutney or something off the shelf and it had a little sticker to say this is from Jar Jaburang country or this is from Gundijamara country. This is from Larikiya country we had this notion of actually being able to identify the providence where things come from it's almost like we need to have a a conversation with the suppliers like Coles but then also the consumers to be more conscientious about what they're buying from who I feel like you know people will actively buy ethical products if it's sourced here. But yeah this idea of native produce and and native things people don't necessarily have an appreciation of I mean they'll some fellas will go get you know paintings from China or whatever. There's just this lack of appreciation as you say about where things come from and I think a lot of that comes from people you know Migalus and you know Wajlus being disconnected from themselves really.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

And I think and I think they are they they they they are coming around they're starting to hear us they're starting to see us which is incredible they are and and and you know we need to give that a shout out as well the people that that that I would never have expected to ask me things are coming to ask me you know how can I do this or how can I do that or how can I use this in a cake or I've just been given lemon myrtle what can I use it as and it's just it's so great to see that people who I would thought would never have asked me that or come to me with that have totally come around and and it sounds like it's so exotic but it's not you know we've we've eaten it we've done it for it for thousands and thousands of years and like you said health benefits all of that is right there but it doesn't just stop at the food it goes right down the chain right down all the way to the aunties or whoever's picking it right in the dirt you know out on country and it just is supplying jobs it's giving us a purpose it's culture it's invigorating the culture it's keeping it alive it's you're doing more than just buying something off the shelf you're actually you're actually giving back yeah it's so important we say that a lot in our work too you know whenever you support one black fella you're supporting hundreds of people because we we we we don't have a concept of social enterprise where you're just giving back to our families and communities and we have that reciprocity and responsibility you know we have a thing you know that's why our the you know our knowledge is so different from the capitalist paradigm because we know that if we eat good then everyone else has to eat good and that's both a blessing and a curse for all my family who's you know always humbugging me now Gamin.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

But you know what I mean we have that responsibility so I feel you on that. I mean what do you think what's ne what's next for you in this space?

SPEAKER_00 51:01

What's next for you in this movement and what's next for you in cooking like you know you've come off the show you've you've done some amazing things you won a service in bush food and botanics award last year for the work that you've done in native foods and so you won an award at the Darwin uh the Aboriginal economic development award you know you're working at Urbanlist like what's next for you in this space what's in the crystal ball well what what I've done recently is I flew home back to the Gascoyne to Going and there was a TAFE course that's run in hospitality it's certificate two in hospitality and it was just all mob in this class and one of the things that they needed to get ticked off was native foods and they brought me in and I spent a week talk taking mob out on country foraging we I taught them we created a recipe we went out and and these are all young mob that were just so excited to to to kind of just be celebrated you know in something like too and then so the first two days we went and foraged and we went and looked at all the bush foods and you know I talked to them about all the the health benefits and all that kind of stuff and the industry and then we created a a menu which was really bougie and then on the Friday we put on this restaurant and we sold tickets and it was sold out and we had a 50 seat restaurant where me and the the kids I call them kids and you know some of them are kids so they were kids to me and then and we cooked this really bougie fancy dinner and just spoke where the we went and picked these foods on Monday and Tuesday and now that's the salad you're eating now. So it's just it's just giving it it to me it's giving back this was never something I didn't care about going on TV I didn't care about having a platform I didn't care about any of that. It's just I I've come from a very strong line of blackfollowers that have really instilled in me that you are a player proud blackfollow we have a place here this is our land and you know what keep that going and I'm just all I want to do is just keep that going and and just amplifying voices no matter if they're aunties uncles kids whatever just using my platform and putting others on my platform and letting them go for it because they've been doing this longer than me you know what I mean like I I've been doing I'm a Johnny Cum lately. These aunties have been doing it for 40 50 years so giving them giving them the the that platform it is what does it for me and it it's it it was never about me you know it was never about doing a cookbook or anything like that it was about mob culture and just celebrating us and and just bringing bringing it back you know because it's it's been gone for a little bit like I said our volume's been turned down but let's turn that right back up now and let's shout from the rooftops.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Oh I love it. Oh my god that sounds like my idea of heaven that program of being able to forage know what you're looking for then being able to eat and share together and like you know come back together in in that tribe community way is like my idea of absolute heaven what a wonderful contribution and what a wonderful way to yeah share the knowledges and like you say amplify and educate along the way it really is so incredible. Oh I I'm just blown away you know I'm I've been really into mushroom observations disclaimer I never pick mushrooms you know I think it's really just identifying all of the species and I I've just booked actually I'm gonna go on the weekend for a foraging so to learn about what it is and just you know and it's a non-Aboriginal fellow who's doing this and he's offered um Aboriginal prices for people to come along but just like going out and I'm just even teaching people what what to cook and what to look for and getting giving us back that knowledge is just so special.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

So I'd umbrella thank you and you know it always makes you feel awkward because I I when people like say things like that it's when I won that award I think I went bright red like I was not like bush tomato it's exactly right and and one other thing is that you know it's never too late to learn like you said you know it's never too late to learn it's it it's our culture it doesn't matter if you were taken or if your family grew up in the city or whatever and you weren't accessible to like the lifestyle I grew up in you know being immersed in culture if you you can still do it today there are people out there ready to teach you and ready to learn it's not shame it's your it's it's your right and it's your responsibility to carry on our legacy and our culture and our traditions. What a beautiful reminder it's never too late this is for you and that yeah it's all available for us as it's intended to be what a beautiful reminder for people who might be yeah a bit shame and and a bit unsure about how to go about this in the right way oh my goodness I can't wait to see what's in store with where you take this I will definitely be following along the journey and elevating in any way I can I um I got a message today I brought out I got reached out to by a company called Journey Beyond they own the GAN, the India Pacific the Overland and the Great South train lines they reached out to me because I um started a a a candle range which is a really bespoke small candle range to see if you know with the scents like lemon myrtle and cakati plums and things like that and this company called Journey Beyond reached out to me and they asked me to specifically curate or design a candle for their train for train lines and today I've just got a photo of them in their store in Adelaide. So yeah if you're if you're in Adelaide there's some um there's some native scented candles ready for you to to go and buy so and and that's it you know it's not just food that I'm focused on it's more the culture the the bush foods the all of that kind of stuff and there's so many avenues that we can take it in. It's not just food you can take it into the scent world you can take it all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

So you know the the world is always start the world is always and what a just a beautiful lovely invitation for people to just become more aware and invite this produce and these products and these beautiful offerings that are handmade using Aboriginal knowledge as into your home you know and and to know that the decision to bring something like this into your home is is is so rich. You're getting access to 80,000 years of people who know the plants who have foraged the plants who respect the plants that's incredible we'll we'll pot all those show notes in about where to get those candles. I am a candle queen I've got it's probably like my three toxic traits is like absorbent amounts of tea. I love tea and there's lots of black tea on the market now and candles so and food so and you know what we're just gonna get bigger and better and blacker and I'm looking forward to it. I just want to say thank you so much for being on the show today. The ancestors definitely put a few spanners in the works but I knew that as soon as we'd get yarning there'd be so much to cover. Matt Moncrief I'll put all of your details all of your handles online in the show notes to follow along this conversation this really important national conversation we're having about native foods but I just want to say thank you so much for being here today and just coming along and sharing all your wisdom. You've given me so much to think about even myself so thank you.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Oh Sam thank you for having me. I I hope I've given you some food for thoughts but yeah like I said you know it's not just bush foods it's it's so much more than that and I think if we're gonna spend a dollar here or there put it towards something that you know that will reinvigorate culture mob and all that and that's all I want. So thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

It's been a deadly yarn thank you I've actually I'm gonna send you I've got a bunch of native uh spices and things I'm I'm intending to experiment this weekend I've given myself permission to just play around with some things because of that notion that you have to get it right so I'll definitely be in touch with some ideas.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Definitely send me some comments definitely definitely definitely send me how how you went I I'd love to see it looking forward to it. And that's it you know you start slow from like they said from little things big things grow.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

So yeah that's right oh thank you