Kirby Bentley - Representing First Nation's people on her Survivor journey

In this episode, Caroline is joined by Kirby Bentley, a proud Noongar woman and contestant in season 9 of Survivor. A lifelong lover of sports, Kirby played netball for Western Australia before switching fields to AFL, before becoming an AFLW coach. It’s this professional sporting background, along with the gifts of her culture, that she believes gave her the skills and the confidence to take on anything, even Survivor!

Caroline and Kirby chat about her goal of inspiring Aboriginal people through her television journey and how ultimately mob can accomplish anything! The pair also dive into Kirby’s Survivor strategy, from how she used the connection skills passed down from her ancestors to form bonds to those infamous tribal councils. They also yarn about her entertaining if not tumultuous collaboration with fellow contestant Feras Basal, and how their rivalry turned to an alliance to ultimately her eviction. Kirby shares her regrets about her time on the show and also gives Caroline the inside scoop on whether or not she’d go back in the Survivor game.

Kirby then catches Caroline and listeners up on her life post-Survivor and the incredible work she’s doing with her business Gnalla, an inclusive First Nations brand that encourages people to have the important conversations - even when no one is looking. The brand is all about celebrating identity, with the important goal of elevating suppressed voices. Whether you’re a self-proclaimed survivor fanatic like Caroline, or you’ve never seen an episode, you won’t want to miss out on this listen!

To follow Kirby visit her Instagram page here.

To check out Gnalla visit here.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show! 

Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here! 

We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.

This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Podcast Unite Our Voices.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

This podcast is brought to you by On Track Studio. Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's history to work towards a better future. I'm your host, Proud Barbara Woman and founder of Blackwattle Coaching and Consulting, Caroline Cal. We acknowledge the Rurundari people and elders where this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands that you are listening in from today. It always was and always will be unseated Aboriginal and Torres Red Islander land. I'm actually really nervous and excited, and I feel like today is gonna be a really interesting and amazing conversation. I have the privilege and honor of sitting down with Kirby Bentley, the very impressive, cheeky, strategic, social gameplay mastermind of season nine of Survivor, The Rebels vs. Titans. And it's so nice to be able to just sit down with you today and find out a little bit more about the sister that we saw on the screens, but behind the screens, and of course, to talk about your incredible survivor experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

So thank you so much for being here today, sis. No, thank you. I love talking to Mob and I love talking to other women as well. Like obviously, Aboriginal Women was all of spoke about. Actually, I don't think it was that obvious, but it was all I spoke about on the show. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this yarn.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

I'm so excited for today. We have a million questions that we want to go through today, but I guess we always like to start by, you know, really getting to know you. And we saw so much of you on our screens, but I want to open up by just sort of starting with talking about, you know, who you are, if you could introduce yourself, how you like to be introduced, share a little bit about your mob and a little bit around your own personal story.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, so I am a nyunga woman from Mount Barker in Western Australia. I think in the AFL world it's traditionally known as the Kraken Country. I have two younger sisters, and both parents are nyunga as well. So my dad's side of the family comes from Kalgoli, Kitanning mob, that area, and mum's the north, like Geraldton, bit of Yamagee in there as well. So I'm Nyunga Wongai Yamerji. And yeah, I'm a proud black woman, grew up in the country and a bit of a tomboy as well. I wasn't that articulate in school, like I really struggled in school. I am a visual learner and hands-on, but again, I think a lot of our people, like we're pretty cheeky, so I used humour and that sort of engagement and jokes and laughs or everything else to sort of interact. But yeah, I just really struggled in school as a young kid.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

I think a lot of the teaching environments aren't set up for mob or people, hey. Like learning is not a linear process, it's like through yarn and touching and for our mob, like you say, it's like doing the thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Well, I think the system is failing a lot of our people. Like we're missing out on so many opportunities because we're perceived not to be as educated because of our learning styles in a lot of ways. And I learned that later in life, probably hitting mid-20s to the late 20s, that I understood the way that I actually learn and understand, and it is visual and hands-on. I wish I knew what I knew now, back then. It's an old cliche saying, but things might be so different. The way that I learned how to speak was just watching people talk. David Ruppun is a good example of yarn telling and storytelling and engaging and just his humour. So he taught me how to speak, and I don't think he even knows that himself.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

It's a fascinating what we draw inspiration from and who we draw inspiration from. I always like to think about not what I want to do, but what person I want to be, and look at people like the Dave Wupenders, people like yourself. It's so nice to sort of learn a bit more about your personal story and where you come from because I understand that you have a huge sports background. You spent like 10 years playing netball, AFL coach, AFL playing. I read that you played in State of Origin. There's a Bentley Cup named in your which I thought was really cool. Are your family all sports people? Did you carve your own path in that respect?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Well, I think naturally black fellas just can do anything. And on the show they were asking me if I was an athlete. I just said, look, I'm black, I'm good at everything, so don't me again, you know. So I grew up around sport and footy and country footy as well. And when I was younger, being a tomboy, I wanted to play AFL with Chris Lewis and the Matiras, and you know, like in that era. But as a young girl, obviously that wasn't possible at that time. So Netball was the pathway that I went down, and I think it saved me in being able to leave a small town that is pretty old school in the way that they think. So there's a lot of racism around that country towns. It is Aboriginal mob, and then there's Wodulas, like white mob. So it's a hard space to live in when people are so set in their ways and stuck, and you know, they're just this stigma lives with you. So Netball going through that sort of pathway freed me from that world and opened my eyes up to what could be. And I am a pretty optimistic, open-minded person. So when I started playing Netball, and the reason why I played, I was just filling in for my school teachers' team one morning, and I played seven games, ended up going out to Perth. I was invited to these trials, I had no idea what it was, but at the end it said Canberra, which is a flight away. And mob not having a lot of money, I was thinking, oh, this is my first time on an aeroplane. So I trained my ass off. I worked so hard to make this team just to go on the aeroplane. I was 14 years old and got through 200 selection cut and it went down to 100, went down to 80, and the final selection, this is all within like four months. I got handed this black and gold dress, and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. Like now, where's my flight ticket? Because I want to go on the plane. And I was 14 years old, so I ended up making the State 17s team with Brie and Bianca Franklin, who are now like my sisters, but I was that excited to go on the plane. But I was actually named to represent WA and one of the youngest players to ever do that. So that was the start of my netboard journey, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

What a fascinating story to kind of fall into something and go on to again like push the boundaries and challenge these norms or views of what successful sports people are. Yeah, that's really interesting to know. In thinking about that as someone who is involved in sports and coaching and being active in community and in your advocacy, I mean, what then motivated you to apply for survivor? Like what led you to that? I'm curious to know.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well, sport is all I've ever known, and sport again has been like my sort of saviour in moving forward in life and creating some sort of change. And whenever I stepped on the netball court, whenever I put the footy boots on and had that jumper on my back, I was free in that moment for you know the length of time that sport was going. When I stopped playing, I felt like I lost a huge part of who I was. And yeah, I remember seeing on LinkedIn Survivor were looking for people to apply and everything else, and I was just like, I had no idea what it was. I sort of read up a little bit about it, and my understanding was that it is about manipulation, it is about deceit, and it is about working your way through and looking after yourself, which is all against who I am. But I saw it as a social experiment to put all of the practices and everything that I've sort of been taught through sport of loyalty and integrity and hard work and discipline and knowing your people. I wanted to see what that looked like in a game like that because it's a small scale of what society is. That's what I feel like with all of these wild characters out there.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

It's so interesting, you're right. It is a little microcosm, hey, and I imagine you would have so drawn on your sporting talents, but then yeah, the way that mob relate, like that interrelationality part. So I imagine it would have pulled all of your skills together. And I must admit, I was like a little shocked when I read that you actually had no idea about the game. Like, as a quote unquote, I would say that I am a super fan. I'm a counsellor by trade, and so there's some psychology that I love similarly with you about watching people interact. And it's fascinating because when I talk about it with friends or whatever, they're like, oh, you know, I'm not into the show, I can't deal with all the lying and manipulation. And I think it's just such a funny thing that we say because there is a very thin line in our lives between good and bad and evil, and I think we all have the ability to be self-serving at times and mask it as something else. I think we can all do it. You know, there's a bias about it. But yeah, I was so fascinated to hear that you didn't know much about the show, and that was a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

I think so as well. And I don't think that, and I've found this as an athlete, like we have to be really self-aware. We have to be self-aware in the sense of knowing where we're at realistically, how hard have we actually worked, and you know, what shortcuts have we taken, and it's that real ownership and accountability. What I've found if they haven't sort of gone through that elite sort of sports programming, people don't realise that that deceit and those little lies and that you know, people are always trying to get ahead or make themselves feel a little bit better. And it might not be in a rude or an aggressive way, but it happens and it happens every single day. And people will start to realise if they actually tune into the conversations they're having. Are they holding back? Are they being reserved? Are they being too forward? Like that's all survivor, and I don't feel like I really lied in it. I think that I was a little too direct, which can be intimidating, but I like that because it makes people uncomfortable and they have to address it.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Oh my god, I have so much to say with your actual game style. I mean, one for the books, I think, because it's interesting. Oh, there's so much to unpack. But that notion of what you're saying about, yeah, lying and manipulating. I think sometimes we lie so much to ourselves, too. Like we get really, really good at it. I want to read something that is on the survival wiki page that they have set around your gameplay. I don't know if you've read this, but they describe you as a strategically aggressive player from the start. Kirby used her sociability to arrange numerous blind sides to further herself in the game through her unpredictability, caused her to be embroiled in a rivalry with Ferris. And I can't wait to unpack that yarn. After lying low during the early merge, her strategic vigour saw a resurgence as she's initiated a truce with Ferris, realizing this mutually benefit of an alliance. You know, there is this kind of notion, like you say that you were being direct or assertive. It's so fascinating for us black fellas because you represented like this stone, staunch women matriarchy, archetype that we all know and love, the one who's not afraid to say things, call it out, do it respectfully, but be honest and upfront. It's a really strong integrity value for a lot of us. So for us, it was so comforting and normal, but for the everyday person, you know, as women particularly, we do get told to be cooperative and polite. But in that game, you really can't be, you know, you're there for yourself. So I want to pick up on that about you didn't know the game. When you went in, did you have a strategy, a process, a thought of how you were going to play the game in mind? And did it change over time? What was the process like for that?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I actually had no idea. Because I didn't know the game, I actually had no idea to even have a strategy. I remember sitting on the beach and just thinking, well, I just need to know these people, I need to connect. And my biggest thing, and culturally, like you know this as well, we need to connect with people. But because I connected on a deeper level, and Aboriginal women, we're chameleons, we're able to adapt, we're able to conform when we need to, stand staunch when we have to, like, we can sort of manipulate the world around us because that's the superpower that we've been given. And I utilize that, like I made sure that I tapped into the people and the depth of who they were. So when it came to say walking up to Kitty, for example, and just saying, Are you gonna vote with us? It wasn't as easy as that if I didn't do the work. So, yeah, just relating to people, and there's so many versions of my story and who I am, or things or ways that I can connect to people to have that understanding and using language like I love that about you, or I love that you can do this, or like be that boss that you want to be. Like, why not? Like, so I use the empowering, the encouragement, the support sort of networking, which is manipulation, but it's also relationship building, and they were all true and genuine builds. So, and if you're asking about the strategy, that's what I did, and then I just built on that.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

You sort of built on what you already know, which is the importance of connections and relationality to really move at a speed of trust with people. And because you're right, I guess there's so much that happens behind the scenes, and we only see a snippet of it, which is you know, having those more direct conversations. There's probably a lot of real deep intentional relationship building that we don't actually see on TV or on the screen. I mean, with that, sis, you lasted 44 days in the jungle, and I'm gonna get to the gameplay because I, as I say, I really want to unpack that. But it's so fascinating to hear that you didn't go in with a strategic strategy. And I guess in thinking about that, like how did you maintain flexibility? And how did you kind of like manage the emotional mental drain of the game in being so adaptive? I imagine at times it would be quite exhausting trying to just think of all of the scenarios and put yourself in places for these yarns. So, how did you stay flexible with that in mind?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Well, flexibility was, I guess, my biggest strength, and again, our mob and especially our women, we are so flexible and adaptable to what life throws at us that we have to because we're the queens of our tribes, like we lead the way, and when things go wrong with us, we're who our mob come to. So I created the chaos because I work well in chaos. I understand that it's not the end of the world, there's always something possible out there that you can change or adjust or adapt to. Whereas what I found with a few of them, they had this gameplay or strategy that they wanted this person out, this person out, this person out in that sort of sequence, but it's never gonna work. And if people can sort of control that, amazing. Like if you can do that and everyone sort of conforms, great. But when I put something out there and it threw a spanner in the works, it rattled people, and they always revert back to the conversation that they last had because that's the sense of security. So I would have a conversation two days ago saying, Oh, we're gonna get Caroline out, and then that conversation will happen, they'll have all these other grand plans, and then I'll throw something out there, then they'll revert back to that. So you're like sowing the seed a little bit, sort of, or my plans were always in place two or three days before, but it was all suggestive. So if we were working sort of loosely against each other, but I walked up to you and said, Oh, you know, what do you think of Ferris's alliance? Like there's four of them sounding pretty strong. Who do you think the brains is? Like I'm pointing out somebody specific, but I need you to tell me the name because that's who I want, right? So then it becomes your plan, your idea, and you're in control. So I'm like, Yeah, great, Eileen, let's do it. I'm in. But I've already told three other people the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

So you're so right in saying that, and obviously, you know, might be biased because our show is predominantly around First Nations women, our business is that, but you know, if there's anyone that knows how to survive and adapt and learn how to thrive in conditions that aren't meant for them, it certainly is black women and Aboriginal women, and especially that notion of like taking multiple perspectives into consideration and trying to bring people together to connect them, but still be very valuable in the decision-making process. But yeah, it's just so fascinating to hear that you didn't have a gameplay. I feel like you really did stay so agile and you were willing to surrender when you needed to, willing to step up and step back at times. And I imagine if the ego gets involved, then that might be hard to do because you're really attached to the idea of getting your way, I imagine, like all humans are.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

The ego plays a huge role in a game like this. Obviously, I'm standing on an island with predominantly white people, and obviously, when there's white men involved, like the level of superiority in the sense of society is there. So to be able to navigate around their personalities, around making sure that they feel empowered and in control and you know, like they're the man, that's obviously what life is for me. So being able to work with those people, having a mining and construction background, that's all I've ever had to do for 10-15 years. So I brought all of who I was from reality into this game and just use it to my advantage. So I felt like it worked.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, it worked. I mean, you were just so entertaining and you played with such spirit and smarts. Like we have a group chat with my girlfriends and my family chat, and it was pinging every episode. So did you see this? Did you see that? You just brought this kind of new dynamic to the game. Before we dive into some specific moments in the game, which there were a lot for us to really distill down. I want to just kind of talk a little bit around the logistics, if I can. And you can share what you can and what you can't, of course. But I also too at this point just want to thank all of our listeners. We put a little call out to our listeners, both here and internationally, for some questions. And they came in pretty thick and fast. So you had an impact not only on us as Blackbullers, but other people, allies, and the like. And so, yeah, it's pretty cool how much interest we had. So, do you mind if I go through a couple of the little logistical questions that I'm sure everyone would want to know about? Like what actually happens out there? And then if we can talk about a couple of the gameplays, that would be incredible. Yep. Yeah, sweet, let's hit it. Okay. So the first very simple question is so you're flown to Samoa, you get off the plane, and then what? Like what happens with the process? Like, are you just there? Do you get introduced to people? Is this the first time you're meeting them?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

What happens? We're flown into Brisbane, and then we have like a chaperone, but from that moment we're not not allowed to look around, we're not allowed to talk to anyone. So that's the period of isolation and sort of getting into game mode in that sense starts there. So the phones are then handed over, so there's absolutely no contact anywhere. We land in Samoa, we're then again to build on that isolation. We're blindfolded, we're driven to our hotel or the place that we're staying until we start to get sorted out, and that's what that is. So we don't talk to each other, we don't look at anyone, we don't talk to anyone who's a part of production. Like, yeah, we start to feel that sense of isolation, which is obviously becomes a real a mental challenge, but it's the start of the game.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And what's going through your mind initially at that stage? Are you thinking, holy, am I in the right place? Am I gonna run or fight or fly?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Like, what's going through your mind? When I applied, I applied. Obviously, I got asked to go and I was like, yes, done. I'm in. So whatever the experience was going to give me, I was just gonna take it and run with it. So when I landed and they said, I need your phone, there's no talking, no looking around. I handed the phone over, looked at the ground, and I didn't say a word. So I really got into the experience of it all. And as challenging as it can be, I loved every second of it because I can always come home, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Like at the end of it. It's not a forever thing. I guess you know that it will pass, but I imagine the days are long. I mean, that whole notion or concept of time would feel so surreal because we don't even sometimes realize how we can just escape from our feelings, our thoughts. If we are feeling a type of way, you know, we might be scrolling unconsciously, but you are like there dealing with it all all at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, it's the first time that I have been wholeheartedly present with everything. So my own thoughts, where I was, who I was sitting with, talking with, engaged with, like in gameplay. So, you know, you don't have a phone, no one around us wears watches, like we just have no concept of what's going on in the outside world. And it's wild, but it's so grounding.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Is there something somewhat liberating about that being quite insular in this kind of bubble that's been created as well? I mean, of course it would be an adjustment, but I imagine after time it would be like, okay, we're in this safe little bubble.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And again, like I just took it on the chin and just ran with it. So it was being out there and being wholeheartedly present, that allowed me to connect on the deep level that I really wanted to, even though people didn't want to early on because they were trying to protect themselves, they'd have this strategy and what they want to do. But we can't help but be there with each other. And like eventually people start to open up because we're tired. Our day one, it rained and Our shelter, I don't even think we had the structure up, but the realization, and I remember standing there and it was just pelting down. I was like, Oh, this is all right. And then I was like, Oh my god, I need to stay dry because I don't get to go back and have a shower now. I don't get to get changed or get into dry clothes. So once we were wet, we were wet for three or four days. That was hard, and that was at the very first day.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

There's this concept in another show that I love called Alone, and they call it like drop shock, where it's just like boom, and then yeah, like elements, personalities, like this whole different world. So yeah, day one, you're there and it's raining. Is everyone just on sort of getting established? Shelter, fire, warmth. Is that sort of how it works?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

It was weird because nobody really wanted to start the conversations with anyone. And I would take a step back and really watch what people do. So I'm an observer before I engage with people. So we were sort of building the shelter and then going on little loose chats and then sort of like sussing each other out. It was random, but half of our shelter ended up being built. None of us slept that night, and there was no wood, there was no food. It was just wild, and we're kind of all looking at each other like, what the hell have we done?

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, like okay, this is real now.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, and it and it was really real in that moment. So, but again, that experience, like we can dry, like we'll dry. The wood will dry and we can't eat. They're not gonna starve us out here, so yeah, it was just a it was a wild first couple of days.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

I could imagine just that shock to the system. But I imagine it wouldn't take long to just adapt and get into the gameplay of it all as well. I guess with that in mind, you know, this concept of time and isolation. 44 days out in the jungle in Samoa is a long time. What do you mob do during the days to like fill in your time? And do you get into a routine together? Do you go have quiet time?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

What's happening behind the scenes? No, there's not. You don't realize, but there's not a lot of downtime. So if somebody has an opportunity to talk to somebody, they do it, they take it. And you have to because if I see somebody talking to someone that I'm not familiar with seeing, I'm heightened, I'm so aware of what's going on. But then I need to figure out well, who do I tell about this? How do I sort of plant the seeds? What are my next steps to making sure that I know what that conversation's about? On top of then, there's idols you need to look for, on top of everything that's going on. But as soon as we wake up, pretty much we're getting ready to go to a challenge, and the challenges they take a lot of time. So if we lose that challenge, we come back and our scramble is an hour, potentially two hours sometimes, depending on how hectic it is. Then we go to tribal council, but we don't know what time we get back. Sometimes the moon looked like it was two o'clock in the morning. It's just a hectic day, but you don't realise like how long the days are because you're just in gay mode. Even during the night, you're in gay mode. Like if I heard somebody roll over and get up, I would be awake and sort of watching where the hell are they going and who's going with them.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

If we had like a pie chart, but 90% is just gameplay. The other 10% might be a little bit, it's that intense all the time.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Well, yeah, well, because because it is around deceit and manipulation, like relationships and all of these different things, like the biggest thing for me is when I was connecting, I was genuinely connecting two people. So I was delving in on a deeper level, and I would love to say that would stay friends for life because of those connections, but they also added value to my game. So when people knew and saw a bit of vulnerability, which is very rare that I showed it, because to be uh a good engagement person, you've got to be a great listener, and so I just listened to a lot of people because sometimes people just like to talk about themselves. It's pretty exciting, it was such a fun. You would love it, you would love it as a psychologist. Well, you're a psychology counsellor. Counselor, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Uh I I would. I mean, it's it's something I would definitely consider, but after hearing some of these things, I don't know, you have to be a certain mindset. There's a strength of yeah, not having your social connections around you and just this abyss of time that, yeah, it's scary. But this is comforting for a lot of our black women who are listening to say that any one of us could possibly go and do this experience.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah, well, it's it's a society thing. We we have to wear different hats for many different reasons as Aboriginal women, because one we might be looking after our kids, we might be looking after our partner, we might have to deal with somebody in the public eye. Like we are always and forever wearing these different hats, and that's such a powerful tool to have. And I don't think that we really know that we walk with that tool and that ability, and it's huge. Like, I I definitely tapped into that because I have very strong women around me that I watch do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

It's so beautiful that you say that because one of the questions that came through from one of the listeners was around that notion of saying, well, how much of your gameplay was inspired by your culture and the women in your life as well. And I imagine that, as I said, it felt so familiar and so comfortable seeing you there being cheeky and fun, and so it felt like you were everyone's auntie, everyone's sister, everyone's cousin there, so it felt very familiar. But I imagine, yeah, at times where it was feeling pretty low, that you would definitely be drawing on the strength of our old people.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Once I was told that I was going on, I wanted to represent my people with pride, but to show the country and the world, like it's an international TV show. So to show the world that we are something to be celebrated, we are something to be walked with and to join forces with and encouraged and supported and everything else. And our humour is one of the best traits about us, but our inclusivity is our superpower as you know, as a culture. We want people to come in, we want to nurture them, we want to look after them. Like I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's yeah, it's a huge part of who we are. I've always worn those bathers, but I definitely wanted to make sure that I wore those, you know, those budgie smugglers. But yeah, just represent who I was as a person, but who I am as a person is because of who my people are and who I've been surrounded by.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

And with that, sis, you know, representation and seeing us on screens is so important. And I I love that you yeah, were unapologetically, you know, did it your you know, mob ways, but also you did it true to yourself. You know, you stayed true in who you were, you didn't waver from that. And it sort of gave a lot of us, sisters, a bit of permission to be like, actually, no, we can lean into our authentic ways of showing up as in our blackness, in our power, in our truths, our ways as well. We'll be back, you mob, right after this short break. You know, that notion you said before of like sitting back and watching and taking it all in, you didn't share a lot about your sport and kind of kept some things in your back pocket, in that notion of like centering other people. You made an intentional decision to sit back, and the first opportunity that you got to go to tribal was abdozy. It was a big one. It was kind of like, all right, the game has started, and you had an instrumental role in the kind of takedown of the cuddle crew at the time. So let's discuss this first tribal council. So you essentially got the majority, rallied everyone together for a PETA vote at the stage because we were sort of sussing out the camp dynamics. And then I guess at the last second, you and Re, I believe, decided to go against the majority that had been formed. Essentially going against Garrick and Ferris, who was your initial sort of alliance at this first tribal state. It was quasi-alliance. I mean, what was the rationale behind that decision? What sort of you didn't do that? Because I was like, sis is here and she is here to play.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

We're leading up to the Peter vote, Garrick and Ferris were gunning for Tobias and Alex. And like, again, because I've not watched a show, in my mind, I'm just like, if we're competing against Titans, you know, there's Nathan, there's Jaden, like, there's pretty strong lad and winner, there's pretty strong lads over there. So I'm also mindful of when we go to challenges, we need to make sure we've got some competitive players to, you know, sort of rival with, at least give us an opportunity to win. Because if we keep losing, we're just going to take our own out. So they were going, going, going. And then one night I couldn't sleep, and I was sitting near the fire, and Ferris came and he's like, Are we good? Like, which one should we do? And I was and I thought about it, and I watched Peter leading up to you know that tribal, and she was leading that cuddle alliance, she was having all these conversations one-on-one and saying, Let's work together, let's be secret together, let's do this, let's have a girls' alliance. So she thought that she was sort of controlling everyone, but I watching that, I just didn't trust it. And she wanted Kelly and Raymond out on the first five minutes that I even spoke to her. So in my mind, I'm like, I don't know these people, I don't know you, um, I don't know your agenda, and I haven't even spoken to anyone else. So it was that moment, and then watching her that I was like, I said to Ferris, I was like, I think it needs to be Peter because she doesn't add value, you know, to the camp. I don't really know what conversation she's having, and I feel like she's keeping this cuddle crew together. So for me, Peter was the obvious choice, and that's that was the day before um tribal that I mentioned Peter's name again, and yeah, they everyone that we were with in the majority were all writing her name down like for days, so nothing was ever changing. And the funny thing was Alex thought that I was in his alliance as well, and I had no idea that I was in their alliance because I hadn't spoken to them. So they called themselves a sexy crew. First of all, I got on the island, I was underdone, so I wasn't quite there yet. And secondly, they'd not spoken to me. So I'm like, well, if you want, if you think I'm with you, then I'll just sit on the fence. So this is my first mistake, and the only time I made the mistake, but I owned it as well. Like I was very I was honest with everything that I did, even if I did it after the fact. There was an opportunity to repair and not acknowledge it and move through it, and it's like, okay, what's next in the here and now sort of thing I might because sitting on the fence for me and Ree was like, oh yeah, well that way then we're sort of we're still in with them, we're in with the majority, but not realizing how people were going to take it, and that's obviously a lesson that I had to learn in a game like this. But once that happened, the next day I said, You have my vote, do what you need to. Like I'm gonna prove that that was what I'm telling you is the actual truth. So I gave them the vote. We went into that next tribal council where Kelly Kelly did whatever Kelly wanted to do. Kelly was playing her own beautiful game, which we really loved to watch. And I don't even know what that game was called, so yeah. No, she was good, she was a good entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

That particular cuddle crew vote, I guess, was pretty formative in that sense because I thought that you and Ree had pulled off the perfect plan to not vote and that it would never be discussed. It would have just gone down with the oh, we didn't get the the the numbers that we anticipated. And then yeah, I guess when Gary kind of came over and addressed you, a part of me was like, How are you gonna handle this? You know, you I I think you did well in sort of acknowledging it and focusing on the repair and building trust again. You can't really hold on to too much of a grudge there, I imagine, because you've all got to work together eventually.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I always saw it, it was what it was, and it is what it is. So, like after that vote, like it didn't show it, but Garrett blew up and he like yelling, and it was like a really heated, aggressive conversation. And I like I get triggered by that, but I'm I also stood back and I was like, how does he work in my game and does it fit with me? And is this manageable? So that was sort of what was going on in my head when I was trying to call the jets on that sort of explosive conversation. And I just said to him, I said, Look, I did sit on the fence, but this is my reason. I sat on it because I thought I was in their alliance. I thought that yes, I can be privy to whatever conversations they're having, but I own and recognise that we're sitting in a majority, so I really didn't need to, and it was a fail on our end, like have my vote. So yeah, and I knew I knew that.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

It was incredibly smart now that we know after the fact that you didn't go in with the strategy mastermind that you were just playing intuitively. It was an incredibly smart gameplay to sort of at the first initial tribal keep your options open. Like you don't know who you can trust at this point. Let everyone reveal themselves, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I want to sort of ask you about, you know, that notion that you have around like this is just the game, it is what it is, very kind of practical. And you know, I think when you're a strategic mastermind with coaching, football players, things just are the way they are sometimes. They're just neutral experiences. We don't need to assign any weight to them. And I think that's what you embodied. Did you have times where you really had to try to like separate the emotion from the game? And like you did have moments where you were overwhelmed with all of the emotion because that's what I imagine I would be. I think I would be able to do the social stuff, but I'm just so sensitive and so hard on my sleeve that I would just take everything so personal and feel like this sense of rejection or oh, they don't want to play with me sort of vibe. And that's probably just my own belief system that I have to navigate. But did you have any days where you struggled to separate the emotion or you just able to get through it?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

No, not at all. I I didn't play with emotion at all. Actually, I did one time. I got salty when they voted Rhea, but I was salty because I was like, How dare you lie to me, Kitty, for the first time? I taught her obviously that she could lie. But apart from that, like no emotion was on my end because I was there to play and I was there as the game player always. And whenever anyone brought emotion in, things didn't go too well. So when Garrick and Ferris got heated in that tribal council that Garrick went home, that was an emotion, that wasn't a gameplay strategy, that was just him getting angry or aggressive or because he's out of control. And I thrive on that because you have to play to their emotions. So if you know that you're not with them, you just fish them or you throw an extra rock out there and just see what other ripples can sort of come. But if they are emotional and you're working with them, it's then managing their emotions and calming that to make sure that it lines up with what it is that you need as well. So it's just people managing.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

And you've seen people who have become like overly emotional literally blow up their own games because there's kind of like a meta experience and the bigger experience, which is like, can you be trusted to keep a lid on it? And are you going to like blow up all of our games in another way if you can't manage? So you do have to be able to like compartmentalize and sort of detach to some extent, and but also have emotional intelligence. This is whole minefield. Yeah, it's wild, it's wild, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

You need to play, you need to go and do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Yeah. Oh, I might need to get a little bit more of a thicker skin, I think. But I mean, with the tribal processes, like how long do they go for? Like, what do you what's going on in tribal when you're in front of JLP? And for that first tribal process with the cuddle crew, what was going through your mind? You're not you're not exposed to the game.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

So you're like, we just did this. So obviously, we walk in with our torches, we light our flame, we put them down, then we all have a seat, and obviously JLP will hit us up with some questions. Whether or not he's aware of the dynamics and what that is to be able to probe on certain conversations, I don't know. But I use it as a learning because it's a platform. So sometimes, you know, Ferris is a bit of a showman. So I've I noticed early on that he'd sit up or perk up at the right time and speak in a different tone, and I was like, this bloke loves this attention. So, you know, like turning into what he's saying, and he says a lot of nothing, so he doesn't really give a lot very politician way of speaking, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 38:57

The tribal responses.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Yeah, and everyone sort of said a lot of nothing in that tribal council. But knowing that I was sitting in a majority, knowing that Peter and her alliance had absolutely no idea was exciting, and when that pulled off, I fell in love with the game. I was like, this is fun because line size as a first. So it was, yeah, it was so much fun because people think that they're in so much control, they miss the opportunity to double check things, they miss seeing things that they probably should be more observant at, or they don't have the conversations that they probably should just because they think that they're in control. Like it's just a weird concept, but I loved, I loved that first trouble.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Yeah, oh, it was like, yeah, it was really entertaining to watch. And I think there might be a sense of like this false sense of security that we want to believe that we're not being gonna be voted out. Yeah, it's interesting to know that after that process, yeah, you were dubbed the blind side extraordinaire in many ways. I guess with that, I want to talk about another tribal experience. And I guess this kind of ties into what you were saying before about like the emotion part of the game where people have got to tribal and have become overly fearful or paranoid, and then they get on a soapbox or do become overly emotional and then become the target in that moment. And that person is Alex. I'm gonna talk about day 39. So we're kind of like towards the end, we're at the top six, I think, at this stage. It was kind of the first time that the tribe started to think that you were a threat, which was so surprising for us potentially watching, because we could see how you were so strategically involved in so many things, but you weren't like always up front and centre. You were bringing people along. And it was kind of surprising that for the maybe the viewers watching that people hadn't kind of deried, like, oh, this is like really valuable and a huge threat to the game. So day 39, Alex comes into tribal. I guess he's feeling that he's gonna be voted, and he starts to sort of expose you to the group as a threat, and but was quite adamant, very passionate about the topic. Maybe he could have like sowed a couple of seeds and been a little bit less vocal about it, but he kind of started to lead this like intense discussions in some way. And then after that, he kind of put a target on himself. He ended up getting voted out, and then you went on to win two immunity idols back to back after that. I think recognising like, okay, the mob are kind of coming for me, and you were such a known threat. And at that stage, I guess, you know, Ferris, Ferris kind of promised you the idol in a roundabout way. Can we talk about this experience of whether on the record Ferris did or did not promise you the use of the idol? Because for a lot of us playing at home, we were absolutely gutted around this vote because watching you two as this like dynamic duo, this kind of like frenemy, rivalry, you know, not working together, working together, accepting, buying the swords down, and realizing, hey, we're we're better. It was like this whole David Goliath like story, I guess. But yeah, so did Ferris promise you the idol? Was it was it sort of known that he would, or was it sort of suggested?

SPEAKER_00 42:24

What what went down? Starting back at Rebels, obviously I sat on the fence, disrupted it, whatever, gave my vote across, and then Ferris, I thought that we were cool, and then he pulled an idol out at one of the tribal councils, and I was like, I can't trust this bloke. So that's sort of when our rivalry started, and that's the moment where I played the game harder up until the back end of the Titans. So he came to me on the beach and literally begged me to take him to merge because he didn't believe that he was going to get through. And he probably wasn't if the game, you know, stayed with the tribe swap for two or three votes longer. So the fact that he did that that was sort of when we put our guards down. We entered merge and both sat back and watched, but Kitty beelined me and said, We save Ree for you, we want to work with you. But at that time I was with Val, and I needed the information that Val had because I didn't trust Mark and I didn't talk to Mark at all either. So I said, Well, why don't you work with Ferris and like because I'm with Val, like I just can't do that, and Ree can do whatever she wants. So at this stage, we had Ferris and I had all the information of exactly what everyone was thinking, which is why we kept so cool and sort of out of the way, like you know, Eden taking charge and Caroline taking charge and Mark doing whatever he feels like he needs to do. Like we knew where the votes were going all the time. And we had influence over that. So we were able to sort of keep quiet in our game, and uh you know, obviously we get to the Alex trying to. Tribal counsel because he takes me to the spa day, which is an absolute worst decision he could have made. But I was happy to shave my legs and brush my teeth. I'm good, brother. Like, give me away. But we're not talking strat because I just never spoke strap with him. If he came and sat in, he came and like barged into one of our strat chats, I'd just leave the conversation. I just wanted nothing to do with it because it made no sense what he was saying.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

He was such a lone ranger at times to Alex. You know, he kind of a bit of a flipper, a bit of a lone ranger, didn't quite mind his tribe in the tribe.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Yeah, and he also had this sort of superiority about him as well. Like he he wanted to be in charge. And I just butt heads with people like that because if you're not open to having the conversation and you want to lead it and dictate it, like I'm out. You do whatever you want to do. Yeah, so we get to that tribal council, and he just started going to town on everyone, which is why I said, I think that you're insulting everyone here, and I think they're playing an incredible game. Whether I thought that or not, I didn't care. You say what you need to say. But the thing was, Alex was the vote out the whole time. That's why you don't see us have a conversation and say, Oh, we're changing it to Alex, we're changing it to Alex, because it was never going to be me at that time at that stage.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

So it was always going to be Alex, and that had already been locked down. Because I guess at that stage we've got an alliance with, you know, yourself and Ferris kind of solidified. You know, it's clear that even if it's not well known to everyone, you have this sort of secret way of sharing, you know, after hours, getting information, realizing okay, we're we're stronger together here. It's very Game of Thrones-esque, I must say. And then we've got a, I guess, an alliance between and and by virtue through Ferris, we obviously have Ray connected to Ferris. So there was like you three. And then, of course, Kitty and Mark, who were working together on and off. Similarly, I guess in a concurrent fashion with you and Ferris. So we're enemies and then they're working together. And so Alex was kind of not in that process to begin with. I mean, the relationship with you and Ferris was so captivating to watch. And yeah, it was, I guess, characterized as this kind of mix of like collaboration and rivalry, but you both have quite similar personalities in a way. Both quite cheeky, leader tendencies, not afraid to speak your mind, were able to sit back when you needed to. You know, there was a time where Ferris was target number one, and we thought at home that he was gonna go way before he did. The tribal, the the tribal where he stands up and and plays that idol for him. I mean, we were devastated. I must say, we were just gutted. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, okay. Ferris did probably what he needed to do because you were a huge threat, and that's the game, right? But on a personal note, we were so devastated. There's a take where I guess they were sort of building a narrative around you being a threat. And Ferris said, Well, Kirby doesn't support me. I can stand next to her, and then he proceeds to play the idol for himself. And a lot of Australians and ours at home were like, What? This relationship formed, and we we'd already sort of said, Okay, these two are in the in the top two there. So, what's going through your mind at this moment? Like, and now, in the benefit of hindsight, what do you what do you make of it now?

SPEAKER_00 47:20

In that moment, in that day, I remember sitting on the beach and just saying to him, like, would you play it for me? And he didn't even think of that. He didn't, he didn't. I don't know whether he was tired at that stage or whatever, but I was always thinking, like, and he was my only saviour, unless I went to find the idol that wasn't found, which is something in hindsight I wish I did. It is what it is. So at that stage I said to him, like, voila, voila's his, I swear to God. I said, Walla, I want to sit with you at the end. I'm not lying when I've said that, and this is what I want. So he was genuinely considering it, and I could see it playing in his mind, but I didn't want to tell him to do it. I didn't want to keep forcing it on him, it needed to be his decision as well, which is why at Tribal Council I was like, I'm not afraid to stand or sit next to any of you. Like, and if it's Ferris is the biggest player, like I'll sit with him. So I was then going to his ego, which is why he said, I won't flinch if I sit next to Kirby, like she doesn't scare me. And I at that moment I was like, Good, you keep thinking that like I'm good with that, brother. Like, sit when he was saying that, I was okay, but it was the first time in any trouble council that I felt uneasy because I don't have the control anymore. He does. That scared me. So when he went up and he told this Jarn after we left the show, I said, What was that? What was that yarn all about? Like, just play it for yourself and shut up. So, yeah, when he got up and I was like, when he started going on a tangent, I knew straight away. And when he said, I'm gonna play it for myself, my head dropped into my hands, and I was like, Oh my god, my game is done. And I just remember just going, All right, just read the votes, let's get it done with. I'll come up and see you, JLP, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

It was a bit of a sinking feeling all around. Hey, that was the life jacket, I guess, for you. And I guess that's just a testament to how strong you play, that you really were. An incredible threat. I think anyone would have been terrified to sit next to you. If we're looking at the characteristics of the game, outwit, outlast, and outplay. Of course, it wasn't an outlast, but you had such a case to make. And I think some of the jury would have been surprised at some of the roles that you possibly had played. Because you weren't out there sprooking, oh, I've done this and I've done that. Like maybe some other people had claimed some tribals that maybe weren't theirs, which they were happy to to their demise. But yeah, so it probably would have would have been fearful for most of the players there. So yeah, it was it was a very poem part of the game where, you know, for Ferris as well, to give credit and respect where it's due, he held on to that idol for a huge amount of time despite being a huge threat. And then when he did the Ray move and pretended like they found the idol, or with Alex, sorry, he sort of solidified his place by by doing what he had to do. I mean, with that, sis, you know, if you had stayed in there in an ideal world, would you have taken Ferris to the end?

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah, because my moves were all planned and executed, and they were visual, and they knew that. So when I walked into Jure Villa, they were like, if you stayed, we're all writing your name, regardless of even talking to each other about it. So and they all said that individually to me, which is wild because you don't know what you haven't seen, and players who played the game on Ferris's side have seen certain moves that he might have made, but she could have played the bigger role in that, which could have counteracted it. Whereas a lot of my moves were planned and executed, and it was done in a way that I utilized people to make them feel like they were the ones making the move, but it was just done in a way that I knew that it was mine. And when I would tell the story or when I'd be able to explain it, they would know that. So the Eileen vote is a perfect example. Kitty came up to me and said, Oh, like, you know, what are you thinking? And I was just like, Well, if you, Caroline, Val, and Mark all have a chat, like, what are your thoughts around Ferris and his top four? Like, who's the brains in that? You know, in my mind I'm thinking Eileen, but you know, you come back with a name. So the exact same thing to Caroline, same thing to Val. And I said, Val, you all you know that I vote with you, so you come back, you tell me the name. So then I said, Eileen, Eileen, Eileen. They came back, said Eileen. I said, Cool, I'll write over whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

It's just brilliant. It it's such a mastermind to know that you had strategically thought about things well before they were going. You didn't feel scrambled. You're presenting so clearly and grounded because you had done all of that legwork. I guess I want to ask you two kind of general questions about the game, which is, you know, any regrets? It's anything that you wish you had have done differently. And then the second question is, you know, the biggest lesson that the game taught you about yourself, not as survivor game player, but as you know, Kirby Bentley, the warrior woman.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

My only regret is probably, and I look for idols, and because I've never watched it. Yeah, did you ever look real talk, just be like on the way to the Jilla and be looking for an idol? Oh, I'd be I'd go and look because you always have to have like crew with us to be able to capture that moment, right? So it's hard not to be too obvious because you got someone there with you, and then everyone's got big eyes too. So I did look and I wish I had looked more, and I wish I learned how to find idols. That's probably my only regret. Other than that, I played the game for what the game was giving me. I adjusted, I adapted, I grew, I learned, and I never made the same mistake again. So I loved that aspect of it. And as far as what it has given me, it's just allowed me to be true to who I am, and I found that I've found myself again, which is huge because you play sport, and then you've got all this scrutiny or perceptions of who people think that you are, and I started to feel so stagnant and I guess suppressed in the way that I was that I was sort of being portrayed, so I didn't know how to be anymore. This sort of freed me again, and I am cheeky, I'm a you know, but I'm respectful and I admire people who can come out of some resilience and work through that and what that looks like, but I admire people who have never experienced that and stay positive but supportive to those people that go through that too. So I'm a very open-minded person and I feel like I've just found myself again.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

How special to hear that, and that survivor could provide that for you, and as a result, you're sort of using this to encourage us to find ourselves in different ways because you know, after coming out of the show, you or even before, you've been really involved in community work too. You know, this is a thing about black women. We're busy, we've got our hands in many pies, and you know, I guess I want to just sort of maybe shift gears slightly in thinking about yeah, you providing a platform for bigger conversations, and I want to ask about your business and brand Nala. Yeah, can you share a little bit around the significance and the inspiration of this?

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah, so I actually have two businesses. So one's Nyala, Nyala in Nyungal language means ours, so it's yours and mine, and the whole idea, all the concept of that is to have the conversation where no one's looking. And I used our culture as a celebration and a conversation starter. So art tells many stories, and you've got so many versions of that, and your story is different to mine, but it's still a way to celebrate and share and and everything else. So on the show, my jumper said coffee still coffee, and that was there to start the conversation. So it doesn't matter if you put milk in it, if you put don't put milk in it at all, it's still coffee, and that's how we are. So the conversation around that is how Aboriginal are you? And that that's probably not the best thing to say, and because of the way that we were brought up our colonization, so it's just it's having a conversation that allows people to feel comfortable to speak the truth without it being aggressive or forced upon. Nyala's inclusive to everyone, and you know, one of the things with Nyala being ours, the word ours, what does that mean in Italian? What does that mean in New Zealand? I was like, what does that mean to all of who you are as people? And that's how we connect. And because we're such a connected culture, I want to celebrate that and I want to share that. So yeah, that's what Nyala's about.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Beautiful. I love that. I love that like having you know, putting it on on t-shirts, being conversation starters, and yeah, entering into uncomfortable conversations at a grassroots community level is really where we see change with how we engage with one another and seeing each other, you know. I think sometimes as Blackbellas, we do get a bit othered, and we are just like you, but we just want to be happy and healthy and safe and connected and experience joy. We aren't too different from you, and so to have these beautiful conversation started in language um is really special.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

And it it extends further than culture too, like it's identity, it's sexuality, it's like whatever your beliefs are. If you're having a coffee with someone and somebody's brought something up that may sound offensive, that you know may come across wrong, it's not calling them out as such, but it's having the conversation when no one's looking. You don't need an audience to do that, you just need to shift it. That's what I love about this brand, and it's yeah, that's what it's for. So there's so many different layers that you can sort of tap into when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

I love that. We do a lot of work in at Black Bottle and our company on like anti-racism and cultural safety and workforces and how to build you know awareness around having kind of ally or bystander conversations. And you're right, like it's a moment by moment, interaction by interaction, conversation by conversation things. We all have the ability to be like racist, ableist, sexist, and say the wrong things at the wrong times. And and how do we just hey hey, pull up, or how do we actually and having it? I I love the sentiment of that because that's what it's going to take. A bit of humility to say actually we are going to get this wrong.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yeah, exactly. But like using art and clothing, it's a great way to you know start those things. And the other business that I have is called Jukien, Jukien Sisters. It's female-owned, female-run, Aboriginal business, and it's with my best mate. We played footed together, it's dry hire of machines in civil and mining. So the whole idea or purpose, driver for me personally, is to make sure that I have something for my nieces to step into, to give them a step forward or an advantage in life and something that I had to work for and didn't necessarily have, but I want them to have that sort of freedom to already be there and have that potential to excel.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

I love that. If we eat good and our family eat good, we're we're doing good. That's really what it's about, isn't it? You know? The idea of having like financial freedom for our little Jarjans or Burras is so important. You know, we're always thinking about like regenerating and replenishing back. That is something that possibly would have made is why you became such a strong survival game player. Would you go back if you were asked? I I'm tipping there's gonna be some like A-team, I'm thinking like yourself and Ferris and George and Haley and like all these crew come back from other seasons. Would you ever consider going back? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Uh yeah, I think it depends. I look I love playing the game. And if I was going in with strangers that have watched it and they've watched me, then I don't know how long I'd last. But if I was going in with players that have played before, it could be yeah, it could be different. But I'm open to it. I just don't know how soon and what that looks like. You've got you've got your fingers in a few pies, you know. Um I'll have to come to you for some research, like little things, what's going on. Or I need to actually go and watch it and understand it. So visual learner says maybe.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Uh well, I'm gonna pop all of your what you're doing at Nala, what you're doing in your other business into our podcast show notes. As I say, want to thank all of our listeners who provided questions. It was so good to connect with you today. I I just have yeah, a lot of love, uh, admiration for you, who you are, most importantly, and the many things that you've done and will continue to do in helping our communities too. So, yeah, thank you so much for being here today, sis.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

No worries. Thank you so much for having me. And I am so proud to be an Aboriginal woman. I'm so proud to be talking to a strong Aboriginal woman in yourself, Caroline. And I know that we do it, it's more than just about us. So, yeah, it's for our future and our Kulangas, our kids. So I love that. And I love this show, so I can't wait to hear it. And thanks so much again for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Oh, thank you, and thank you for giving us permission to show up unapologetically. I hope that all the sisters who are listening can be reminded that it's okay to stand in your truth and show up exactly how you are because yeah, I think that's what you just illuminated on our screen. So thank you again, sis. Thank you so much for listening, you mob. If you are vibing this season of Yarning Up, then please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast from to show us some love, rate, and review. Alternatively, you can get in contact and give us some feedback by visiting www.carolinecowl.com.au