(INTRO MUSIC)
Welcome - Host Gillian Parker (00:04)
Hey! Welcome to the All Teens Considered Podcast (ATC), I’m your host ... Gillian Parker.
Beyond self-help, the purpose of All Teens Considered is to explore what teens are thinking and feeling. We survey our audience to hear from real young people and invite mental health professionals to get scientific and expert advice. We want to change the stigma around mental health by making mental health education interesting, relatable, actionable, and …. totally normal.
All Teens Considered is not a replacement for therapy or personalized advice, but we hope it provides some insight into issues that you or your friends might be dealing with.
If you are a teenager listening right now, this podcast is for you. And we want to hear from you. What issues or topics do you want to see covered? How could we make ATC better for you? Share your thoughts by texting (512) 537-1778.
Guest Sara Schley Introduction (01:03)
Our guest today is Sara Schley. Sara’s a successful entrepreneur and author and the aim of her work is to make the world a kinder and more inclusive place. She also happens to be bipolar, and her recently published book “Brainstorm” tells the story of how she made peace with her bipolar brain. Today we’ll dive into her experience and techniques for managing her own mental health.
Let’s get started.
Host Ben Marullo (01:28)
When you identify that you may have a different brain than other people – or if you have a specific challenge that's unique to yourself – and you're accepting of that – how do you find self-love?
Guest Sara Schley (01:46)
It's a great question.
It took me a long time to accept it and I hope for your listeners it doesn't take as long because hopefully this stigma has reduced. I have to say I have teenage kids and when I talked about kind of “coming out of the closet” with my bipolar brain they said “Mom, everybody has mental health issues. Don't worry about it.”
So, it's a very different, you know, kind of milieu and time than it used to be. But I think the self-love part for me is that I have a lot of pride now - if that's the right word - that I have that I'm a survivor, you know. I'm a survivor and a thriver with this unique brain and I have had to just go through – I call it to hell and back. I've been to hell and back a number of times with this brain and I feel some sense of – I don't know what the word is besides pride – but just kind of self-honoring. Like, wow, you know, you're doing it.
You know, you have this unique brain pattern that has come down for me from generations and you know by grace of whatever – all kinds of good fortune and practices and all the rest – able to thrive with it. But I feel some sense of, you know, I don't know – accomplishment, pride, goodness. I'm doing it, you know, and it helps with my self-love.
Ben (03:14)
Yeah, I was going to say it sounds like a sense of accomplishment.
Sara (03:19)
Yeah, it's like against all odds. And we've scaled this mountain. I don't know if that's the right metaphor but it's kind of a countercultural correction because the culture, at least till now, is kind of like mental melted, mental illness stigma and what I'm feeling is no, pride.
Ben (03:42)
So, you look at that as a sense of pride which I think is really healthy. Does everybody that has to overcome a different challenge mentally or that is just kind of unique in their brain with a challenge like bipolar? Do you think that is something that everyone needs to take pride in. Or do you think that there's other ways of looking at it?
Sara (04:07)
Well, I would hope that they would. It's kind of what I'm saying the word pride. It's sort of reminding me of gay pride right now. Coming out of the closet, affirming who you are as a human being, celebrating that, celebrating your difference, and allowing that to be something that you claim. I don't know that that's not a prerequisite, but I hope that everybody gets there.
Ben (04:33)
You ended up creating Seed Systems – that focuses on sustainability – and then you also wrote a book about your experience with bipolar. Clearly this is something that has reflected in your career. What would you say was the way that you decided you were going to use this to shape what you want to do with your life to earn a living?
Sara (05:00)
Interesting. I don't think I was thinking of my bipolar brain as a way to earn a living for a long time. Sustainability is a passion I have on environmental, social and diversity issues. But over time as part of that, I talk about sustainability from the inside out. A more integrating sustainability from the inside out. It’s maybe not surprising that because of my bipolar brain I have been interested in the inner work of sustainability and then how that reflects in the outer world.
I practice this idea that if we want to create a sustainable planet out there, we have to be doing it in here in our own beings and psyches. Over time, in addition to working with organizations, I also worked within individuals inside those organizations as a coach – as an executive coach, life coach or personal coach.
I think a lot of what I had learned, what I've learned from my bipolar brain, influenced the people that I coached for years. I never told them it's because I was bipolar. The things that they're finding helpful to them are things that I've learned because of the practices that I've had to do to keep myself sane and healthy and thriving with this particular brain.
I have earned revenues from that as a coach but it wasn't sort of intentional like I’m making money off my bipolar brain.
Ben (06:32)
You spoke about finally getting the right diagnosis? It seems to be like that's the turning point. But after that even, when do you think you really felt like you were able to thrive with the unique brain that you have?
Sara (06:51)
It wasn't long after because part of my getting to this diagnosis – and I think I spoke earlier in the hour – about wrestling and fighting with it not wanting it to be true.
So, I ended up developing a lot of practices that were useful even once I got the right diagnosis and medicine. The practices that I had in place – I'd already been doing yoga. I had already been doing a lot of exercise. I'd already been into sort of healthy diet. I had a fair amount of therapy. I did a practice called shadow work, which I'm now a facilitator of, so there was a lot in place there.
Plus, I was blessed to have a good relationship and married to good guy and I think by the time I got my diagnosis, I had little kids so there was a lot going on. But there was also a lot of practices and a lot of support in the family that helped me continue to thrive.
I write in the book, I did have a setback or relapse about a decade later post the diagnosis. That's probably a story for a whole other Mental Muscle podcast because that was connected to my mother's cancer diagnosis and her death and dying process. I think because she had been my lineage – my bipolar lineage – and because of the suffering that she went through, there was complexity on the psychological level around her death and dying.
This is for older women, who aren't listening to you right now, but there's also a complexity around bipolar women and menopause. There was a number of perfect storm factors that lead to a relapse which I write about in the book.
But post that, I've been really good, and I think during the relapse I learned some more practices that I needed to do around sleep and around really putting myself first and really respecting that bipolar brain and doing what I need to do for prevention.
Ben (08:51)
What would you say to somebody who is looking at this experience that you had and trying to relate it to themselves? When they don't necessarily have that mental illness?
What do you think is the takeaway of how you can look at something that is just an unfortunate thing that happened to you that you don't have control over and then really take ownership of it and be able to turn it into something that really does benefit and enrich you as it seems like overcoming bipolar, in your case, has done for you?
Sara (09:23)
I want to be clear – it's like I haven't overcome it. It's like, I think, alcoholics when they go to AA and it's never past tense. They still refer themselves as an alcoholic.
I have a bipolar brain and always will. So honoring that is part of my healing, you know? Because I like to say, I have a lot of respect for it and I therefore have to implement these practices. But they allow me to have a rich and full life. So, for somebody who doesn't have, you know, bipolar brain and yet I think it's been interesting for me lately because of COVID and the extreme stress that people are under and those sort of unprecedented mental health challenges even for people whose brains, you know, you would say don't have like any kind of diagnosis.
I found recently in my coaching I've been referring to it as – I think Biden and others talk about “Build Back Better” – and I talk about Build Back Better with Balance so that elevating and honoring balance as an aspiration which is pretty counter cultural. I grew up thinking it was about go, go, go and earn, earn, earn or go to the top of the mountain and keep climbing up. Really what I've learned from this process – my experiences – is that I think an aspiration of balance in any given day for me is a much richer and sustainable state to aspire to. So, I've been coaching a lot of kind of maybe again a little bit older than your demographic but mid-career women who are dealing that right now.
With COVID, they've got parents who are aging. They've got little kids that they're trying to homeschool. They got a business that they're trying to run or some other job that they're trying to do from home. They've got a partner or somebody who's also struggling with that. And it's enough to make anybody crazy, so to speak.
I think the feedback I've been getting from the people I've been working with – and just recently got an email from this woman that it's been really helpful to think about practices for balance. I give them homework. And balance should be physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. Be thinking about practices that you do in each of those domains in any given day and in any given week. They get homework and it's sort of like “Well, you talk about this podcast as mental muscle – it's like building this balance muscle you know and it's pretty wonderful.
Ben (11:52)
That's great to hear that – the idea of “balance” is really important, and I think it enforces that concept that we have control.
What's something that you internally tell yourself that this isn't a negative part of your identity – even if it still must be looked upon as part of your identity?
Sara (12:10)
Ah, yeah. I was trying to think, because it did take me awhile to get there, right, because of the cultural norms and stigmas – that is everything that we have to deal with that doesn't kill us and makes us stronger.
There can be some self-esteem, I think, in being countercultural. For me, it's like mental health challenge. There's a stigma about it and it's seen as negative and for me it's countercultural and kind of a turnaround is to be claiming that kind of a badge of honor. It's a little bit but we were stating earlier, I think that's where to go and there's a moment where you just kind of claim your identity and this is who I am, this is how I was made. It's a beautiful thing that has allowed me to be the person I am with compassion, love and capability.
Ben (13:16)
And I think that can be applied to more than just a mental health condition like bipolar but also to trauma – to any set back we have in life. Pretty much any other issue that people would have regardless of whether that's diagnosed as a mental illness or not.
Sara (13:32)
Absolutely. I think, you know, if you surround yourself with people who reflect that beauty back to you. As you look in the mirror of a friend who was reflecting back to you, you know, you and I are not on a conversation to talk about your issues but if we were and you shared with me some of your challenges and I'd be like “Hey, look how awesome you are. You got through this. You’re a Rockstar.” I think having those kinds of positive influences around you that can help.
I'll tell you my kids help me. When they were coming up as teens, they're like “Hey mom, we're so proud of you. This is just what we learned about in health class. All kinds of kids are on meds or cutting or whatever. It's awesome what you've done.” That kind of a whether it's whoever you find in your life – friends, relatives, colleagues, coworkers – whoever can reflect back that positivity, I think that's really important.
Ben (14:35)
What did your experience teach you about life? I know it's a big question but, in a nutshell, what would you say?
Sara (14:43)
Teach me about life? Wow, it's hard to say because I don't know who I would be without this because it's been going on many decades.
In the end of my book, at one point, this was interesting to my editor. I was having trouble finishing the book and was kind of like I'm not sure that I can put this out there. I was still a little worried about the stigma. She said “OK, here's your assignment. I want you to go home and write down: I have a bipolar brain, I'm a better leader because of it.” That was like, wow, that's an interesting assignment.
I came out with four things that I am really proud of, and I think actually did make me a better leader: better person, better parent, better partner, and one filled with gratitude.
When you have a brain like this and you've been to hell and back, lived in hell for however many months or years, I can't even tell you how grateful I am for every day that my brain works. And it's like a joy that of the present reality with a healthy working brain.
So, one is gratitude, two is discipline like because of the respect I told you about this brain I am wicked disciplined about exercise and diet and sleep. With people who don't know about my bipolar brain – because I haven't been out of the closet for that long – they'll be like “Wow, how are you so disciplined?” I just smile inside because you don't know what's on the other side of the health. That's why I'm so disciplined.
Then a third one is a really deep compassion. Like before this hit me, I don't think I was as compassionate. Like now, when I see people on the street, who are outside our local grocery story on the cold hard ground asking for money –homeless or addicts or whoever else – I will not judge them because I'm like there but for the grace of God and one less support system. I could totally see myself there so that there's a place of non-judgment that is really genuine.
Ben (16:57)
That's great. I think that it is a fact that we tend to learn a lot more from things that we have difficulty with than we ever do from things that come easy for us.
A setback seems to provide a lot of value because if you start looking at it in a way of an opportunity to learn to grow to be a better person to inform you of things so you wouldn't have otherwise known, and it then shifts it from being something that's negative. Like, why did I have to be born with this? Why did I have to go through that? Why did this terrible thing have to happen to me?
It seems like there's not much rhyme or reason why. To be stuck in the weeds of why, doesn't matter as much as being able to accept and then be like “Well, that sucks that this happened.” This is a way to overcome and to learn things about myself that I would have known. And, then to look at the world in a way that is arguably better and a little bit more informed than you would have otherwise.
Sara (18:17)
Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right on why it is a spiral down. You're not going to get anything from why. “Why” won't help because there is no explanation but the “how” and the “what” and the things that you develop in your character and depth that comes from it. That's all good.
Which reminds me, I remember the fourth one is around depth and fearlessness. Anybody could come to me with any issue they have, and it will not scare me. As a coach or as a friend, it could be the most tragic thing that happened to a human being and it's not going to take me down. I am honored to be there with you in that space and I can hold that space with you.
Ben (19:06)
I think about this a lot in comparison to losing a loved one. I haven't personally lost someone very close to me in my life yet, fortunately, but I would imagine that's probably one of the most difficult things that the average person would have to overcome.
You mentioned your mother passing away. Do you feel like you were able to better handle that? I understand that you mentioned that you did have a flare up, so I suppose that's unique to the to the bipolar situation.
Do you think that going through the difficulty of understanding the bipolar challenge that you had was a way you could build some mental muscle there? And was able to, perhaps, cope a little bit better with that situation?
Sara (20:09)
Yes. That particular situation was complicated and it was difficult. In the years subsequently, I've been better able to process it. I definitely was there for my mom because I literally was there for her at the end when she took her last breath with my sister. I was able to be present in a way with her that my kind of flare happened after.
I think more current for me, Ben, is my husband has a cancer diagnosis and he's doing really well, thank God, but it happened right before Covid. So, February I find out Joe had aggressive cancer. March is Covid. There's a lot of stuff hitting us left, right, and center, like everybody. But I think I've been able to sustain a kind of a calm and presence and positivity during this time that I would attribute a lot to lessons I learned from living with, dealing with, working with my bipolar brain.
Ben (21:12)
I understand what you’re saying. It's just so applicable because I've been saying throughout this podcast that we were recording this during the COVID pandemic.
There's a lot of resources out there around mental health but what this tells me is that you'll be recognized. There are not many people now that can't understand personally what it's like to go through a very difficult time.
Some people’s year has been harder than others. I think the curtain has been pulled back and we can all realize that there's real struggle that exists in being a human on this planet. It's by going through those struggles that we seem to be better equipped to handle future struggles.
Sara (22:11)
Absolutely. Recently, in The New York Times was an Op Ed saying that the 4th wave of the pandemic is the mental health crisis. I'm hoping that your listeners will be able to get something out of this in terms of practices that they can use when it comes up because it's going to be coming up for people.
Ben (22:29)
Use this setback, use this time as a way that we can start working on our mental health because when - aside from just being stronger - by going through something difficult and surviving, I think that there's even more strength in critically analyzing. OK what happened? What can I do to be in a better place the next time something difficult happens?
I hope that we can start to really look at this concept of mental muscle as a way that we can build that when we're in these kinds of situations like we are with the pandemic. Because we know that even though there might not be another pandemic for a while or things might be different, it's likely there will be another pandemic. It’s likely that there are going to be other very difficult world issues coming up in the future. To think that 2020 is over and all of our problems are over I think is pretty naïve.
I just wanted to mention that I think this is such a great opportunity and spawns this idea that we've been discussing that there really are a lot of opportunities that we get in life to build back better.
Sara (23:46)
Yeah, I mean, I was discussing with a friend of mine this morning that I walk with every week. Both of us were sharing that I'm not sure how many of the commitments that I had before Covid, I'm going to take back because what I found is that having this extra time for self-care – yoga, exercise, nutrition etc. – has been really healthy for me. I almost feeling guilty because I feel better than I ever have. It suggests that maybe all that kind of busyness I was doing before maybe I don't need to do all that.
(CLOSING MUSIC)
Closing (24:25)
Well, that’s the end of Part 1 of our interview with Sara Schley. We’ll post Part 2 in about a week.
If you or someone you know is struggling with bipolar disorder, we recommend checking out additional resources on Sara’s website at www.saraschley.com. That’s www.saraschley.com.
And be sure to check out her new memoir, Brainstorm: From Broken to Blessed on the BiPolar Spectrum, now available wherever you get your books and audiobooks on the web. Contact Sara on SaraSchley.com.
Thanks for listening to All Teens Considered. Join us again next week when we’ll have another episode to share with you. We look forward to hearing your feedback and ideas for future episodes.