(INTRO MUSIC)
Welcome - Host Gillian Parker (00:04)
Hey! Welcome to the All Teens Considered podcast. I'm your host... Gillian Parker.
Beyond self-help, the purpose of All Teens Considered (ATC) is to explore what teens are thinking and feeling. We actually survey our audience to hear from real young people and invite mental health professionals to get scientific and expert advice.
We want to change the stigma around mental health by making mental health education interesting, relatable, actionable, and totally normal.
All Teens Considered is not a replacement for therapy or personalized advice but we hope it provides some insight into issues that you or your friends might be dealing with. If you are a teenager listening right now, this podcast is for you, and we want to hear from you. What issues or topics do you want to see covered? How could we make ATC better for you? Share your thoughts by texting 512-537-1778.
Guest Dr. Jeff Hutchinson Introduction (01:01)
In case you haven’t listening to Part 1 of Dr. Jeff’s interview, I'll give you a recap. Dr. Jeff Hutchinson is a retired US Army Colonel currently in private practice as a pediatrician in the Austin area. Not only is he an expert in physical health, but he also uses the science of behavior to help parents and teenagers develop healthy communication. He has spent 25 years caring for children teens and young adults and today he'll be drawing on his expertise to help us work through ways to get and stay focused.
Host Ben Marullo (01:38)
What do you think is one point to make about how the pandemic is really affecting this [focus] in young people?
Guest Dr. Hutch (1:48)
I had this conversation just the other day. The pandemic is a lot like flying on an airplane. If you're scared to fly, the worst time is that moment before you get on the plane, all that anticipation, all the stress and fear until that plane takes off and is in the air.
Right now, for most people, it's like we're on the airplane, just flying. There's no control. There's no way of knowing how long the flight's going to last. And if the landing is going to be okay. For most people right now, we're on autopilot.
We think about the pandemic when someone gets sick or dies near us. We think about it when we get exposed. But all the other times in between, it's kind of that background noise of just knowing that there's danger, but not feeling it the same way.
We are just not made to be in a heightened state of anxiety and fear for a long period of time. We just can't handle it. So, for most people, that background fear subsides, and we do things that we think we need to do. For those of us in the healthcare profession, those on the front lines, those who know that every day you go into work is a risk, then we feel it differently.
For a lot of young people, that's why you see them at parties. That's why you see them trying to get back to normal, because they're trying to just adapt to this constant state of possible risk and do the things that they enjoy doing.
Ben (3:26)
I've heard that it is such a toll on our body. That's unnatural to be in such a prolonged period of stress. Speaking of things that are unnatural, do you think that we're physically able to be staring at a screen all day?
Dr. Hutch (3:45)
Some of the physical things have to do with your eyesight. We know about screens affecting the way you sleep. There are blue light blocker glasses. All those things we know have a physical toll on your body.
The ergonomics – are you sitting properly? Are we getting more back pain? "Sitting is the new smoking". All the things that you hear about the body's physical reaction to sitting for a prolonged period looking at screens are absolutely true.
The younger you are, the more adaptable, the more likely you're to bounce back from it. I'm not as worried about the very young, I think that they'll do just fine. The people in their twenties, like you and older people in their fifties, like me, we are going to have a harder time bouncing back. But again, humans are very adaptable, and we will bounce back.
The mental changes, the stresses that happen from looking at a screen constantly. I don't know. I think that depends on what you look at. I go back to the height, the idea that anything we do for long periods of time changes our brain. If you do the same activity repeatedly, it builds ruts. It builds pathways in your brain that become more and more fixed the longer you do them. So that's something that I think about.
I always suggest to people that the more varied your activities are – getting up, walking around, looking at different Internet sites, testing your brains in another way, that's healthier for you than doing the exact same thing repeatedly.
That almost sounds contrary to what I said earlier about having an activity that you're good at. So, it's a balance, right? If you only learn to do one thing and one thing well, it goes back to that groundhog. You won't be as adaptable to other things. But to be really good at something, you must do it over and over and over again.
Ben (5:47)
I want to talk about organization and productivity. One issue that I have experienced in my own life is that I sometimes will overcomplicate to sort things out the way that I want to see them. What do you think is too much organization? What do you think are some basic ways that we can implement just being a little bit more organized in our lives and what effect does that have on being productive?
Dr. Hutch (6:16)
From a medical point of view, organization that affects your activities of daily living that prevents you from doing things you want to do, that's when it becomes a problem.
All of us are organizing certain things to certain degrees and that's normal. There are some people who just go with the flow and do things without much thought. And other people who have very detailed plans of how things should happen.
Everything is needed, every bit of variety that we see in this world, contributes to overall good. I say over and over that there's no one way that's right. But when your organization becomes a problem, when it hinders the things that you want to do, then it does become a problem. The saying that “perfection is an enemy when it keeps you from achieving what you want to achieve”, is what I truly believe in.
How can we use organization in a positive way? You must go back and look at is your organization getting you to your goal? I'm a big believer in looking at your final outcome and seeing if you're moving towards that outcome or away from it. Does organization help you move in that direction? If yes, then it's worthwhile.
Ben (7:37)
Right. We just entered 2020 and 2021, but it's like we're living in a very turbulent world. And there's a lot to be distracted by. Aside from the drivers that we've already discussed, like social media, the 24-hour news cycle, civil unrest, all the issues that we're experiencing and being able to keep our focus.
What are some things that we can do in this new reality that we live in right now to allow ourselves to stay informed and be an informed citizen but also not allow the news or other difficult things that we're experiencing in our lives to really hinder our own feelings of being grounded?
Dr. Hutch (8:28)
I'm going to start with the last part that you said about being comfortable and grounded. Life is not meant to be comfortable. Growth can be painful. We talk about growing pains all the time. So, the first recommendation I have is to let go of the belief that we have to be comfortable. We really don't need to be comfortable all the time. We shouldn't be in pain but being uncomfortable is not something to avoid at all costs.
To answer your question about how to stay informed, how to stay grounded, goes back to the same way we look at apps and everything else in the public domain. People are vying for our attention. The news vies for our attention. The saying about "if it bleeds it leads", speaks to the fact that if something is sensational, if something gets people's attention, that's what is put on the news stations.
Their job is not really to inform. It's to get an audience. If we accept that and realize that, then turning off the regular news and picking up a newspaper is better. If we have a trusted website or source of news that we go to and read about it, that is so much better than the flashing red breaking news every time something comes on TV.
How do you stay grounded? Realize that you're not going to miss out by not seeing the news every single night. There are plenty of people who don't even watch network or cable news because they understand those programs are all designed to get your attention.
Things that are really important, you're going to hear about. Things that affect you, as long as you're looking at some source regularly, you're not going to miss out on anything.
It's hard. It's that fear of missing out (FOMO) again, right? That makes us watch TV and listen to different speakers. I really stress and emphasize to people that finding one or two sources that are as non-biased as possible, makes a big difference.
For instance, for me, I look at Sky News, which is Europe's news station. Their audiences are British or European. They have a totally different demographic and bias that they put into their news. And when they talk about the U.S., of course, there's some bias there, but you don't get the same kind of partisan and clickbait type of headlines that you get when you look at our news stories. It's something as simple as that. If what happened in the U.S. is big enough news to make it to Europe, then maybe you do need to know about it. But if it didn't even warrant a line in European news, it probably is not that critical of information to have.
Ben (11:29)
I think that's fantastic and so important to do that now, especially when news is so partisan. It really does morph our views and heighten certain emotions that I think can really lead to this idea of focus that we're talking about.
The media companies thrive because of these mechanisms that you're talking about with clickbait. Let's say for me, I want to get people listening to this podcast. I'm also in the business of trying to get attention.
I'm sure that you are as well with your company and your work. We all kind of need to thrive to a certain degree. What are some things that we can employ that are healthy? That's not necessarily contributing to clickbait.
Tell me about the flow state – what is it, how do you get there? How is it discovered? What does the word even mean in the first place?
Dr. Hutch (12:40)
I really like that question. It gets to the heart of why we do what we do. And there are definitely people out there who use social media, who want attention just for their own personal gain, financially, the recognition, the dopamine of getting likes. All those things are a reality.
The way that I sleep better at night, the way that I justify trying to get attention when I want to get attention is I go back to the reason behind what I do. If my reason is to help myself, it's selfish and we all are self-interested. But if that is my main focus, then I think that that is not as noble of a goal as trying to help other people.
I became a physician because I want to help people. I'm a teacher because I want people to get that “aha moment” of understanding. What it is they need to know and what do they need to learn.
To answer your question about what do you do to get attention? How do you keep pursuing the need for attention when your goal, when your reason is to help other people, in whatever way you think that is? When you are doing it out of selfless service, then any method you use to get attention to me is justified. Ends justifying the means. Yes. When those ends help other people and not just yourself.
What's your reason for doing that? Are you doing it so you get more likes? Are you doing it so that people recognize you and it's all for your gain and glory? Or are you doing it because of a message? Do you want to highlight suicidality? Do you want to highlight the increased diagnosis of ADHD? Do you want to highlight that there's social injustice? So, the reason behind why you do it makes a difference as long as you're evaluating “Is what I'm doing, helping propel a positive good in this world?”
So it [flow] is often called an "optimal experience". It means that you are in a state of being, while you're doing something where the rest of the world just disappears, and you are focused totally, wholly on that one activity. How you get there, that's been debated. I don't think there's any one way of getting there for sure. Other than fighting something that touches you emotionally, touches your sense of purpose, and makes you feel like what I'm doing is very meaningful to me.
And why do we get into those states? It feels really good. When you do something that is meaningful to you. And then you look back and see what you've created or what you've done, or how you've spent your time, you have this rush of ephedrine and you feel like the world is a good place.
So that's why we all try to get there because it feels good. And should everyone try to get there? I think that if there's something you're passionate about, it's definitely worth doing. Are there people who've never experienced the feeling of flow? Absolutely. It doesn't come easily. It comes to people who have found that spark that's in their life.
We had a conversation offline about the new movie "Soul" and a big part of the storyline was people getting into a flow state. Whether it's playing a sport, playing music, or doing art – all those things can lead you there. And the movie focuses on the fact that sometimes people can get so sucked into that one thing, that they forget about the rest of the world completely. I've never seen it go that far. I think it probably is possible. I think what happens once you get to a point of the feeling of flow state is that you're always trying to get back into it because it feels so good.
The good for other people, I don't know if that's as much a part of it. It has to be meaningful to you. And sometimes helping other people is a strong sense of meaning. But when you think about playing music, the people, when they get into a flow state of playing music, aren’t doing it for the audience, they're doing it for themselves.
Ben (17:19)
It seems like a lot of getting into a flow state is predicated on doing something that you not only enjoy but do good for other people. Let's lead into the final bit here where I want to discuss your Action Plan.
As you know, we always finish these episodes with a quick few steps. When you're feeling like your brain is everywhere all at once and you can't just pinpoint one thing?
Dr. Hutch (17:50)
That's a great question. My Action Steps, in order to stay focused:
- Number One. The power button is named perfectly. Your power to turn something on and off is what will allow you to focus. Use the power button as it was designed. Turn technology, turn media off whenever you can. That's the first thing to do.
- Number Two. Using a timer to break up activities. If you've been doing something for a long period of time, it's been shown that your ability to do it just drops off over a prolonged period of time. We're much better at breaking up our activities into specific chunks of time. Use a timer to limit yourself on how long you're going to spend on any one activity.
- Number Three. Things like TikTok and Instagram. They can be addictive. Like any addictive habit, it's easier to replace it instead of just saying, I'm not gonna do it anymore. Just eliminate it. And anyone who's been addicted to anything tells you that it's hard to do it alone. You have to have some kind of help. These platforms, as addictive as they are, ask for help to stop it.
- Number Four. Know when you're most vulnerable – when you're sleepy, hungry, sad, bored, angry, all those things are real emotions and they affect how you respond. Try to avoid making decisions, and doing those activities during those times when you're vulnerable. And like I said, don't go grocery shopping when you're hungry. Don't get on social media when you're angry or have those emotions.
Ben (19:38)
This is great. Dr. Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the show and for these tips. I think that while it's incredibly difficult, it's just like self-control – which I'm sure I'll talk about at some point on the show. Practice makes perfect, right? Thank you so much.
Dr. Hutch (20:05)
Ben, it's been great. I really appreciate this time with you.
(CLOSING MUSIC)
Closing
That's all for Part Two of our interview with Dr. Jeff Hutchinson. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, be sure to check it out. Thanks for listening to All Teens Considered.