Dawn Eriacho, Counselor, Zuni High School and David Den Hartog, Lead District and School Strategy Consultant, at Green Schools National Network join host Gillian Parker to discuss the work they're doing around providing "safe spaces" for the students they work with in Zuni, New Mexico. while focusing on their traditional A:shiwi Core Values.
They also shared what it means to support students' and educators' mental, emotional and social health and why community is so important.
Dawn Eriacho, Counselor, Zuni High School and David Den Hartog, Lead District and School Strategy Consultant, at Green Schools National Network join host Gillian Parker to discuss the work they're doing around providing "safe spaces" for the students they work with in Zuni, New Mexico. while focusing on their traditional A:shiwi Core Values.
They also shared what it means to support students' and educators' mental, emotional and social health and why community is so important.
(INTRO MUSIC)
WELCOME– CO-HOST GILLIAN PARKER (00:00)
Hey guys. Welcome to the All Teens Considered podcast. I'm your host, Gillian Parker.
Quick Disclaimer. All Teens Considered is definitely not a replacement for therapy or personalized advice. We just hope that we provide something relatable or insightful for whatever you and your friends might be going through right now.
The purpose of All Teens Considered is just to explore whatever you're thinking or feeling. So we actually talk to and survey young people like yourself because that's who this podcast is actually for. In addition to that, we also interview experts in the field, especially mental health professionals, so we can get their opinion on the biggest issues facing young people today.
Basically, we just wanna change the stigma around mental health and make mental health education more interesting. Come up with more clear-cut things to actually do about it and just make the whole thing a lot more normal. So, if you're a teenager listening right now, we want you to know that this podcast is for you. We would love to hear from you if there are any issues or topics that you wanna hear about.
And if there's anything we can do to make ATC better for you, please let us know. You can share your thoughts by texting us at 512-537-1778.
EPISODE 9 – GUEST INTRODUCTION TO DAWN ERIACHO, ZUNI HS COUNSELOR, AND DAVID DEN HARTOG, GREEN SCHOOLS (01:20)
At the end of the 2021-22 school year, I had the pleasure to talk with Dawn Eriacho, Zuni High School graduate and now counselor, and David Den Hartog with Green Schools National Network.
They shared with me the work they are doing together at Zuni High School around providing “safe spaces” for the students and what it means to support students and educators’ mental, emotional, and social health.
I was so moved by this interview I thought you might like to learn more about the Mission of Zuni HS before we begin our conversation with Dawn and David.
Mission
ZHS provides educational experiences which motivate students to fully utilize their academic, personal, and physical potential.
We believe:
In pursuit of these goals, we pledge to: BE RESPONSIBLE, TREAT ALL PEOPLE WITH RESPECT, BE A GOOD CITIZEN
Let now hear more about what Dawn and David had to say about the important work they’re doing in Zuni, New Mexico.
INTERVIEW
Gillian Parker, ATC Co-Host (03:16)
David, you work with Green Schools National Network. Can you tell us what that is and what your role is at Zuni High School?
David DenHartog, Green Schools Natl. Network (GSNN) (03:26)
Gillian, it's great to be on with you. Like you said, my name's Dave DenHartog. I work with the Green Schools National Network, which is a national non-profit that works with schools and districts across the country, supporting them in integrating health, equity, and sustainability. That looks different in every place.
Here at Zuni [High School] . What it means is supporting around health in the sense of mental, emotional, and social health. And so, for the last couple of years, I've been super fortunate – actually last four-plus years – to come here to the Zuni Pueblo and to be a part of the district in a small capacity as a contracted organization to really support their work around the integration of social and emotional learning. And thinking about that at a K12 district level, and also more specifically in a classroom level.
And so, working directly with Dawn and her team and all the other people that are here has been really wonderful in the sense of the opportunity, but there's been a lot of lessons learned and a lot of progress. I feel super fortunate.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (4:34)
That's awesome. Tell me about how the value of sustainability comes into play?
David, GSNN (04:39)
Yeah, of course. There's a variety of definitions that people might use for sustainability, but at its essence is that we are all living and contributing to a world. We're all species that can thrive. Most of us don't do that a hundred percent of the time, especially as humans that we're destructive and in some ways contributing to unsustainability and myself included, by what I might purchase or flying on an airplane. There's just a variety of things that we need to be aware of and think about.
And we also know that for that thriving element to happen, we need to be in a place emotionally and socially that allows not to be paralyzed by anxiety or stress, but have a feeling of hope and optimism. And so that we can move forward on a path that is productive and valuable and contributes in a way that's helpful to other people.
So that's how sustainability connects here in this project. But it connects with everybody everywhere because we all are dealing with those social and emotional issues.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (05:55)
I love the optimistic perspective. I think we lose sight of that a lot when it comes to sustainability.
Dawn, thank you for being here. You're a counselor Zuni High School. Can you tell us a little bit more about your role?
Dawn Eriacho, Counselor, Zuni High School (06:12)
Hi Gillian, thanks for having me this afternoon. In my role as a school counselor, I work with students from ninth grade to 12th grade and I feel that my role, especially being from Zuni, is to provide them hope and do everything I can to reach them. Whether that's emotionally, socially, or physically. Just looking at a very holistic approach and them telling me what their needs are.
I think it's really important that we go to them. We learn about what makes them thrive. And then we do everything we can to support that through our office and then even do more in going outside of our office to then connect with teachers, any support staff within the building, community, just so that we do provide that wraparound service for them.
So that when they do leave our school, hopefully, you have influenced them in contributing to them to be the valuable citizens of our community, of our culture, that they are. I believe each and every single one of 'em has the gifts and talents. And I believe it's our job, as educators, to figure out and help them realize their full potential.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (07:32)
As a tutor, I can say that it's easier said than done. Giving them hope and reaching out to them. How do you actually do that? Especially in the case of maybe a student resistant to it?
Dawn, Counselor, ZHS (07:47)
I think the first thing is just making that connection. I believe that it is our position, our role to connect and build that relationship with them first. They're coming into our office for the most part on a referral basis, whether that's from teachers, whether that's from family. It's a problem that they're having, or that they're exhibiting this behavior that teachers are sending them in and saying, they're resistant. They're not wanting to work. They're just sitting there. They're not saying anything. I don't feel that it's our job to pound that back to them. But instead, just listen to their story.
We start off with just a very lightened conversation with them. I think giving them and providing them a safe space is very, very important because trust is what we're wanting to build with them. We want it to be a safe space. We want it to be where their story is going to be heard non-judgmentally. And so opening up and that may take 1, 2, 3 sessions.
I have a student that I worked with. He was refusing to talk about his situation. It was music that I was able to use as an opening, to allow me in. And it was through the music that he listened to that, then his story started to unravel. He was able to then begin to understand why he was feeling this way and identify emotions that he really intentionally couldn't identify or say what it was.
I think that just opened a door. But that was – to a lot of people – an unconventional way of helping a student. It might even seem like a silly way. Aren't you supposed to tell them what to do? No, no, no. They drive this where it's their journey.
And I think just providing that safe space, accepting them for who they are, their thoughts, their beliefs. I think allowing that for their walls to come down at their pace, I think is crucial. And, and it takes time . We're living in such a fast-paced world that I think that's something that they're not given a lot of times. That time and that space. They'll get sent back and I'll follow up and say, so how did they do? They came back and they were this and that way. What did you say? And I was like, it's not really anything that I said, I just provided them that safe space, you know. Might want to try that.
We're not really a culture that will say something right away. I think we're very observant. We want to see the surroundings. Where am I going to feel safe? And I think that's what they're looking at. Adults, not only at the school but in the family and the community, that's what they're looking for – a "safe space."
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (10:49)
Very true. You mentioned the culture. I want to get more into that. Can you tell me a little bit more about Zuni High School and what's unique about it?
Dawn, Counselor, ZHS (10:59)
I would say what is unique about it is 99% of us are tribal members of the A:shiwi Pueblo. We are talented in so many ways. Artistically, I think is where our students really thrive, whether that's in their art class, on the athletic field, in our dancing, in our preparation of food, in our being involved with family.
Would it be resilient? We are all about community. We are stronger in groups. Yes, we are connected in a way that if something is going on within the village surrounded by a religious event. We're heading into our very important solstice. Our summer solstice is coming up. People are planning. It just happens where everybody knows their role.
And, but in the end, it all comes together as not only in this particular family, but then in the total village. And then when we finally do gather all together, it's just amazing how this got done.
Whereas you will hire, I'm thinking of a wedding. You will hire wedding planners. And it's very formalized. But here in the village, we say this is happening. And it's all done without even having to put it down on paper. There's no computer whatsoever. There's no Google there. It's just everybody knows what they need to do. It's amazing how everything gets accomplished.
Nobody stands above the other as taking the crown or taking the medal home. Everybody wins. It's all in celebration in memorial. Those of us that are here in the light world, and those that have passed on and are in the spirit world but that will be returning to visit.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (13:01)
So it sounds like from talking to you and also talking to students about their values, it sounds like there is a lot of emphasis on community teamwork, respect between people, and just old-fashioned human connection in the Zuni Community in high school. How do you see that impacting the students’ way of living and mental health specifically?
Dawn, Counselor, ZHS (13:30)
I think cultures around the world are experiencing the slow disappearance of many of the aspects of culture, which includes, first and foremost, I think the language, the rituals, the religious belief.
[In Zuni, New Mexico] We have no stop lights. We have two gas stations. We're very, very remote, but yet technology is influencing, especially our young people that is more attractive in a way.
It's everything to bring that back to the students, the culture, the belief system, the language that we have had since time and memorial and is the reason why we are still one of the few pueblos that are still living with our language, with our religion, having been challenged and forced to change, but we have not.
We have sustained. We are still standing. The code was not cracked when we had all the forces against us. To me, that's amazing. I am proud to be a part of this.
In the school we see that slowly disappearing, but then we see glimpses of it when I go out in the village. And I see our students participating and getting involved. And as far as our efforts here, we just spent the last two days talking about how the language and the culture is so important, not only to us, but to our students.
We did a survey and over 70% - 80%, of our students told us that the language and the culture is important and that's all we needed. We were gonna still do it because we see that. But we got feedback from them, their voice. They did not have to do the survey, but they felt it important enough to share that with us. And so we are moving this train forward.
I think as schools, we expect students to come ready to learn and it's easier said than done. And we have taken that mindset of saying, what if we want them to come, we've got to make it exciting. We've gotta find those students and bring 'em in.
If that means coming into the counseling office and saying, you know, “Hey, I noticed that you're not very engaged in this, what can we do? How can we help you?” Just the fact that bringing them in and asking them that, we will probably get to the root. That's probably that they haven't been taught. And it is super, super, embarrassing at this developmental age to admit that.
And I think for adults, it's the same way. But if we can create that "safe space" where it's okay to say that you don't know this, then the only way to go is up. Imagine how powerful that's going to be. Guess what we're going to learn that next year? And guess what? By the time you leave, you are going to be prepared to become a lifetime learner where you will be empowered to go out and seek those experiences that will engage you more and make you more solidified in who you are, where you come from and where you're going and then pass it on the next generation.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (16:57)
Well, I think it's so impressive. The culture that you guys have and especially the commitment of this age range of young students, which I think you mentioned that you don't see in a lot of other places. I think there's less of a cultural bond between young people than probably there has been.
David, I'm curious to get your perspective on how the unique culture and community at Zuni affects the students and their well-being and mental health since you have worked with other schools and have that comparison.
David, GSNN (17:33)
Yeah, I think like Dawn said, there is a specialness to this place and this connection for students. They do all feel like they're family, but they welcome outsiders that aren't Zuni as well. And the adults do that and the students do that. It's a welcoming, welcoming place.
But I would also say that for the students that are attending Zuni High School, there's a large number of students that are hurting. And that have experienced aspects of trauma in their lives. And don't have deep connections with other adults. They might have this historical, amazing connection to their place, and they know that it exists because they are and have been called Zuni. But it doesn't necessarily mean they have a strong relationship with an adult that's in their corner modeling and helping them to know how to thrive in this world.
There are a lot of students with needs and it's why Dawn and her team of counselors are so vital. And frankly, it's why the project that we're doing that Dawn and their team are leading about really escalating social-emotional learning being intentionally a part of everything that goes on within the school district and making that the heart of what's happening.
Schools can be a place where they only focus on academics and they're rated not by their social-emotional learning scores, but by how they did on literacy and math predominantly, right? Like a good school, that's what it's being told. Like, “Oh, you have so many kids that took the AP test. So you must be a great high school.”
We don't know where they are as far as the needs of the students, especially connected to social and emotional needs and mental health. That's what I love about what's happening here is the big picture dedication to seeing this type of work being a priority.
There are some really amazing things happening and Dawn and the team are at the front line of that which makes me excited.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (19:57)
I'm curious to hear from both of you, what are some of the most common struggles that students are facing?
Dawn, Counselor, ZHS (20:04)
I think speaking on behalf of those of us who were born here, we went through the educational system here. I'm now teaching within this system. I think the struggle has been where we feel that our voice has still yet to be heard and moved to the level of that should be the guiding principles of everything we do here.
And so in graduating you do feel that sometimes, I'm talking about back in the '80s, so I'm dating myself, but in going off to college, it was a struggle. In that you are living in two worlds at home and then you go to college and it's almost as you're in three worlds trying to juggle all there is to do.
You're living within your culture. You're living within another culture. You're being told to learn this, and then you go to a city and then it's just double whammy all over the place. And I think that's what our students struggle with – “Will I make it? Will I be able to survive? Will I be able to achieve?” It's that whole self-fulfilling prophecy that I probably won't. So, therefore, I won't try.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (21:25)
There's kind of a disconnect between having this amazing cultural connection to their place and their own school district and community, but then having to also go out into the world where that culture doesn't apply as much.
How do you balance that connection to their own culture, while still being able to live in the dominant culture around them, outside of their community? I'm curious, what advice do you give to students? How do they manage that?
David, GSNN (21:54)
I want to just add that part of the struggle with students at Zuni [High School] , at least from my outside perspective, is that kind of what Dawn was alluding to. The teaching and instruction predominantly doesn't connect and is culturally relevant for students. In other words, it's still a very Westernized colonized look at learning.
Students oftentimes don't feel like number one. Who they are and their culture is being recognized and, in some ways, appreciated and they're not sometimes getting opportunities to connect to their local place. They're not reading about, they're not writing about, they're not really understanding and knowing the history of this place. The language instruction is there on a small scale, but it could be way more significant.
It's not just being prepared to go out to something that's different, but it's also really being understanding and immersed in what this place is. And that doesn't come through with some of the teachings. I'm not wanting to be overly critical of the teachers, because I think they're working really hard. And they're doing what they're being taught and, and told, but there are some missing pieces there. It's some things that I think as a district is becoming more evident. There is some change happening, but that's also part of the struggle I think for students.
Dawn Eriacho, ZHS Counselor (23:40)
I totally agree with that. I think with anything, if you're grounded in where you come from and who you are, chances are going out into, like you said, the dominant society. It does give you your foundation so that you can draw upon that in all the experiences that you go through. But that's what anchors you.
And you know, we talk about our core values. The way that we were raised, the way that, in times of challenges and also in times of success, we still go back to that, knowing that that is our anchor, that is what is going to carry us through day-to-day life.
Especially the way that it's going now. We just always have to go back, look deep into our heart and know that it lives, it exists there, even though I might be in Albuquerque or Chicago, I'm taking my culture with me. I'm taking my belief system with me and that's going to sustain me through this until it's time for me to go back with my knowledge.
That is what our students do have to do for whatever they want their career to be. They have to leave. Where, the goal is always, you'll have a job you'll come back [to]. And, and I think there are some pieces that are happening, which I'm so delighted to hear. Not only in our school, particularly at Zuni High School, we do have an administrator that is wanting that cultural relevance to be part of not only our T-Bird Time but in every class and every content that is being taught.
He is making those changes with all of us. Change is hard for adults. It's super hard because this is the teaching program I went through and this is how we did it. But he is, in his way, making it, directing it, we need to look at this piece. And the guiding question that we started with this last school year is what are we going to do to support the A:shiwi culture identity of students, that was the question. And I remember him the first day this last school year, presenting that to the teachers and saying, this is what's going to drive us this year.
They're not A:shiwi. They don't have that information, but as a school, as a support staff, which is mainly A:shiwi people. We need to then step in and say, oh, so in biology, you're learning about the mountains or the lakes. It takes a village to raise a child. It takes all of us.
I believe that it takes each and every single one of us to help one another, to be able to do this for our students. This year was an amazing year. It was a hard year with kids coming back after the pandemic.
What we were able to do at Zuni High School, not only with our T-Bird Time but in the classroom – being culturally responsive in our teaching and everything we do. I think that has played huge.
As far as the community, we do have A:shiwi Tribal College or A:shiwi Career College and Readiness Center. And they are taking the charge of becoming an accredited tribal college where for those students that are first generational, low income, they don't have to leave. We're bringing the school to you in all these areas to focus on your prerequisites. If it's a bachelor's program you're going to, but if it's a vocational program, hey, we have this too.
Our partnership with them in helping our students, even as juniors and seniors dip their toes in that realm of higher education. I feel that we are moving much more progressively because of that partnership with our tribal organization. I just have a lot of optimism, a lot of hope.
This year, I think in the whole country was a challenge, but I'm just so thankful that we're coming away with having done as much as we have looking back and looking forward, the possibilities are endless.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (27:54)
Well, that is so awesome. That's so great to hear that. I wish we had more time. There are so many interesting cultural questions about how to balance all of that, how it intersects with students' well-being.
I want to ask you guys, if there's any question that you feel like I missed, anything else you want to speak on or that would be important to add?
David, GSNN (28:22)
Gillian, the one thing that I might add is that we had a discussion today about the importance of taking time with students that feel alienated and feel like they don't have a lot of hope. We see the results of students who head down that path.
And sometimes it means not finishing school. But sometimes the worst scenario is it means doing something violent. Some of the folks we are talking about, just the experience of taking the time with students to be thoughtful. And not just listening to the students but listening to their families and understanding where they're coming from and working with educators to help them shift their mindsets about what the possibilities are for students. Not only the value, but the importance of that work, because it truly means the difference of that future direction for that student. They might be 14 years old. They might be 13, who knows. But that direction is going to be drastically impacted by that time and energy.
And I commend the team here, but frankly, I commend everybody throughout the country and the world that's taken the time to work with young people in that way. And it's necessary. It's vital. And it's so valuable and under-appreciated,
Dawn, Counselor ZHS (29:48)
I think it's just taking the time to stop to acknowledge first and foremost. I don't think we realize, as educators, how influential and how powerful we really are. Not only with the students, but their families. And they are counting on us to take care and entrust in us that we are going to do everything we can while the student is in our care to raise them up, not to break them down.
I share the same sentiments as Dave. Is that any of you that are in education, to give yourself grace and just applaud yourself for doing this job day in and day out, because you are making a difference.
No matter if nobody tells you that you are making a difference, just keep plugging. Self-care – because we can't take care of anybody else if we don't take care of ourselves.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (30:40)
Absolutely. Totally agree with you there. Shout out to all the educators and teachers out there.
David, GSNN (30:46)
Gillian, if I may, I want to add just one last thing,
This team here at Zuni [High School] are really a great example. But I also want to just invite any of your listeners and people that are out there to maybe someday come here, learn from them, reach out, connect and contact them. They have a great story, but they also have great ideas and resources.
And you know, this short conversation isn't enough to fully give it justice, but just know that that I'm open from my perspective. And I, you know, I don't want to speak for you, Dawn.
Dawn, Counselor ZHS (31:24)
Yes, yes. We would invite that because again, we're looking at a lot of religions, a lot of belief systems. When we do pray, when we do acknowledge the Creator, we're not just praying for our own. We're praying for the world. We're praying for the climate, for our Mother Earth. It's a holistic approach.
Just imagine if all of us could stop to think and acknowledge each other, even though we will probably never meet one another, just to know that we are all there for each other in the end. I think that's really a powerful way of looking at life and that you're never alone.
Gillian, ATC Co-Host (32:10)
Well, what a great way to end this conversation. That was some really wonderful, positive stuff you guys had to add. I'm feeling uplifted after this interview. So, thank you guys so much for your time. It was just a pleasure speaking with you.
David, GSNN (32:28)
Thank you, Gillian
Dawn, Counselor ZHS (32:30)
Thank you. Elahkwa [thank you], Gillian.
David, GSNN (32:32)
Elahkwa. Pleasure for us as well.
EPISODE 9 CLOSING - CO-HOST GILLIAN PARKER (32:32)
That's all for this episode with Dawn and David talking about A:shiwi Core Values and creating safe places for the students at Zuni High School. And join us again in two weeks to hear from two students at Zuni High School about their experiences of learning and applying these values in their everyday lives.
Thanks again for listening to All Teens Considered.