Love thy Neighbor - The Hot Boys Cult

This Texas-based revivalist cult is made up of millennials who constantly ask themselves, "How much do I love Jesus and hate myself?"  Meanwhile, their neighbor is on the troll, asking cult members' parents how much do they love Jesus and hate this cult.  Parents are freaked out, a baby is dead, and apparently these guys are hot.  What the hell is going on?  Join the CrimeJuicy Gang as we pick apart the Church of Wells and find some surprises. 

This episode was produced with support from:

Genre-busting, multi-instrumentalist and singer-songwriter Neriah Stone Hart.  Check out his music on YouTube, Apple Music, and Pandora, and follow him on Facebook at Neriah Stone Hart to keep up with his new tracks, upcoming albums, and live performances.

Critically acclaimed musical comedian and one-mom-band Jessica Delfino on Instagram and Twitter @JessicaDelfino and on TikTok @JustSomeMom.

Want to support CrimeJuicy?  Join our Patreon community at www.Patreon.com/CrimeJuicyGang.

Transcript

Love Thy Neighbor

Becca:  [00:00:00]  We're going to be talking about the Church of Wells, which is a Christian-based cult in Wells, Texas.  It is a millennial cult.  It's a very young cult - the elders are all in their early thirties.   You may know them from such controversies as Baby Faith who died three days after she was born, sometime during a 15-hour prayer session where they were praying to God to save her life.  And also from the Dr. Phil show, and also from the neighbor of the cult’s YouTube channel, which we'll get into later because there's a lot to unpack there.  Basically the Church of Wells has been in Wells since 2012.  It's an Evangelical cult, and it basically follows the falling out with mainstream Christianity and people wanting to live a quote unquote, true Christian life.  

Carrie: It's also revivalist.  It is evangelical, but the revivalist part needs to be really emphasized.

Becca:  Can you explain a bit about for those of us who aren't Christian and have never been Christian? What is evangelical revivalist? 

Carrie: Evangelical is this the old time Christian, they do use a lot of the Old Testament with the New Testament, which you're not really supposed to do.  You’re as a Christian, you’re only supposed to follow the New Testament.  Okay. Cause that's what the deal is. Well, Evangelicals, they, that's where they get the homosexuality part. They say it is justified in the New Testament as well, but I. I don't buy it. I just don’t.

Krista: Is it just like the fire and brimstone, it’s vengeful God? Just…

Carrie:  Yeah, if you have money, it's your fault, Krista. That's what you're saying.  Vengeful God stuff. 

Krista: Yeah. Fire and brimstone, plagues.    

Becca:  But they're not a doomsday cult. They're not like the world's going to end.  They're no more doomsday calls than any other Christian sect. 

Carrie:  No, because of the revivalist component, which is when you're a revivalist, you are reviving a past that is not here anymore.  That's why they go around saying to all these other Christians, you suck.  Because they are reviving the real spirit of Christianity. They use a verse.  It's in the new Testament, but it says, if you don't hate your dad, if you don't hate your mom, if you don't hate your brother and sister and all that, then you can't follow me. That's how they're justifying this.

Becca:   I've got it written down. It's under the teachings and philosophies of the cult. It's very deeply based on self-loathing as a path to salvation.  It's also based in God can change his mind. This tenant of the cult was evidenced when Sean Morris, one of the key founders of the cult, he said, he was told by the Lord that his college girlfriend would be his wife. And he was told that before they got together and then they got together and then two years later, she broke up with him and he was like, What just happened? God said I would marry her.  And you know, was it really God?  Of course it was really, God.  Was God wrong?

No, God, wasn't wrong. God changed his mind. So that's a central tenant of this cult, and of course,  God can change his mind and the elders of this group are the ones that can, they know what God changed his mind about.  The doctrine of judgment is a big part of this cult.  Separation from the world from families and loved ones is the prerequisite for salvation and associating with people that aren't part of the group  is very much deterred.

Krista:  The leaders are Sean Morris, Jacob Gardner and Ryan Ringnard.  

Becca:  They’re college friends. Oh, I found it. It's if any man come to me and hate not his father and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life. Also, he cannot be my disciple.

Krista:  Sounds like he has some like weird abandonment issues with his family. 

Carrie: I cannot believe that Jesus would say that anyway. I can't, I have a hard time with that being even in the Bible. I must have been a letter to someone else. I mean, you know, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it just doesn't, it doesn't sound like Jesus to me, does it to you? 

Becca:  Yeah, and then Sean was like…

Krista:  Nobody knew Jesus in all honesty.  Who knew this person?  And you know, some people's books, he's an asshole in another people's books he's the greatest thing that walked to the earth. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

Becca:  Maye he was talking to someone whose family sucked and he sucked, and was like, listen dude.  Your family sucks.You're a shitty person. You can't be my disciple unless you recognize this.  So maybe that was the context. I don't know. But people that knew Sean from Sean Morris from college said that he was that dude, you know, it's funny. It's, Oh yeah, you know, that college students had to go to the milk crate out in front of the religious studies building screaming about how we're all going to hell?  But there - his proselytizing as the cult’s is, is very confrontational and he would walk up to people and say, Hey, how much you hate yourself and love Jesus?

Krista:  That’s bold. 

Becca:  It's quite bold. 

Krista:  It's quite bold. 

Becca:  As of 2011, there were 200 members. As of 2014, it said there were 90 members.  Either one of these numbers is big for a town of Wells, which has around 800 people or had from the statistics that I saw. The church was previously called Church of Arlington when  - basically the three elders all met in college. Jacob went to the McClellan Community College by the others – the other two went to Baylor.  And after Ryan and Sean graduated, they went on this two-year street preaching road trip together.

They collected followers on the way and landed in Arlington and called it the Church of Arlington.  Then in 2012, they moved to Wells and renamed it, the Church of Wells, but it's also gone by You Must Be Born Again.  But now they're the Church of Wells .

Carrie: The church is a really plain church, I saw.  Brown like no sign. There's no signs. 

Krista:  Pretty modest. But they also believe that your wife should be beat, even if you're the one cheating and completing all of, you know, the adultery and dah, dah, dah, dah. She still deserves beatings.  

Becca:  Sean Morris earned the nickname in college 9 out of 10, because he said he was at douche bag in class that was just always debating the professor and in his religious studies major. And one of the times he was like, I could beat a betting woman. Well, 9 out of 10. So they just started calling him 9 out of 10. Which is a great nickname.

The town of Wells in and of itself was kind of ripe for housing a cult.  It's boom days were back in the 1890s. It had a state prison coal camp.  So that was like the heyday state prison, coal camp. And then since then there was a short-lived in Mormon community. The Church of Christ came through. Preachers were always coming through, bush arbor revivalist, Methodists, Pentecostals, and Baptists. Again, the interesting thing about this call is they target Christians and they target Christians with their protests and with their proselytizing.  So they're outside the churches in town telling the pastors that they're false prophets, and  they're targeting Christians and saying, are you sure you're saved?  Because we don't think you're saved. And then of course they're like, Oh my God, what if I'm not saved? And I thought that was a really interesting kind of conversion tactic because they are very much based in scripture and a lot of the people said they were afraid to leave because they were afraid of burn in hell, but they were afraid of burn in hell before they joined the church. 

Krista: What is it called? Forgive me for my ignorance here, but what is it called when it's anti-semitism when you're getting no, what is it when you're against religious?  Just in general, just religion. Is it, what is it called?  Because you know how there's internal racism within the cities…

Carrie: Do you want the word apostate?

Krista:  No.  You know how there's internal racism within each ethnicity?  In the African American culture, if you're too dark, you're bad. If you're too light, you're great. In the Asian culture, if you're.  What is it? I think it's Japanese, you're the best. If you're Hmong or something, you're the worst. And it goes through every culture, even in the German, the European, the Irish, the Scottish, everywhere. It seems like…

Carrie: They call us all apostates. If you're a Christian and you're not one of them, you're an apostate.The Mormons use the same word. They say, if you're not a Mormon, you're an apostate.  If you're not a Catholic, you're an apostate.

Krista:  So you're all part of  one religion, but because one isn't the way that you want it to be it's wrong. 

Becca: Yeah. I'm pretty sure. And this is me being a terrible Jew, I'm pretty sure Gentiles are just people that aren't Jewish. I'm pretty sure.

Krista:  I thought that was either…

Becca: But it was interesting cause I was reading some testimonials of members of the church and all of them were very much kind of rebelling against your parents. You've got these Christian millennials, young Christians that are paying attention in church.  And they're  definitely thinking critically about the churches that they were born into.  And they very much believe in the hell factor of it. And they're like, you guys are full of shit. If I keep following you, I'm a burn. One of them was you know, members express disgust with the hypocrisy of mega churches and the commodification of Christianity and the commodification of Christianity is huge.  They call it idolatry. One of the women, Kristin Pursley. She was baby Faith's mom who we might get into later - says her mom insisted that she loved God for many years, in her words, “but her passion rather evolved around entertainment and trips to Disney World.”  And then her partner went on to say that Disney was the idolatry of that family.   Just the way that we've seen a lot of other branches of Christianity form where there's people within the church who were, I believe in Jesus, I believe in the scripture, but this isn't right. And they're looking for something else.

Krista:   Old world. 

Becca:  Yes.  And it's interesting cause it's [00:10:00] kind of, we were listening to the Cultish podcast episode about it where they interviewed the neighbor, which we'll get into. And it was really interesting cause the hosts’ Christian came out and they were all: these people are not into scripture!  And then they started quoting scripture and towards the end of it, they're, they need to repent!  They need to repent.  We were like, Whoa, that's interesting.  And I was telling the girls earlier, we did an episode on Mother God. And I'm , Oh no, our pagan was showing. Cause we're, she's not a Lightworker, she's a psychic vampire and then gave y'all information about how to identify and avoid psychic vampires.

Krista:  They did a wonderful episode on it.  

Becca:   I think it's cool too how the neighbor dispelled some of the myths of the Dr. Phil show about how the women don't walk behind the men.  And there's  other aspects where he's, no, I live next door to them. That's not true. But…

Krista:  Yeah, Dr. Phil is okay, so I'm not going to lie. Sometimes you can find some interesting things on Dr. Phil. I'm not saying that what he puts – or what they put on the show is correct.  Definitely do some digging if you were intrigued with anything that you see on there.  He does find some interesting things to talk about. 

Becca: Yeah. I think of Dr. Phil as a lead, not the source. 

Krista: Yeah.

 Carrie:  Let's talk about the key players.   

Becca:  The key players - Sean Morris according to his ex-girlfriend, he never had a real job to him working was to have someone else in the name of Jesus, given money. He was that guy on the milk crate yelling about Jesus. He majored in religious studies, but he sucked to be in class with.  After his breakup in 2008, he befriended Jacob Gardner and Ryan Ringnald who he met at the Antioch Church.  They both held very strict doctrinal positions.  And his girlfriend too, in college that over the course of their relationship, he got more and more fundamentalists.  Didn't kiss her for almost two years. It was very romance-free and  physical-free relationship.  He was very controlling about the way she dressed and her modesty.  When she broke up with him in 2008, he threw himself into these friendships and into his ideas about God.  

There's not a lot that I found about Jacob Gardner, but Ryan started off like partying his freshman year. Then he went super sober and dedicated himself to religion, but he was in a frat and he was in the tennis club. He was a speech communication major. He was very charismatic, but he always took everything that he did to the extreme.  When he got into religion, he extra got into it. And these three kind of became a trifecta.  

Krista:  There's some megalomania going on, some need for approval, which might be not Ryan, not Sean, not the interesting one. 

Becca:  Oh, Jacob?  

Krista:  I feel like he was probably looking for something to latch on to that felt powerful.  Sean and Ryan are the two delusional driving force.  Well, maybe not delusional because everybody has their own beliefs.  Who am I to say that, you know, that's their beliefs.  I'm not all about the brimstone and fire and burning in hell because, we all know I'm going.  

Becca:  I'll see you there.

Krista:  If it's there, if it's there. I don't know if it's there or not. I'm not necessarily a religious person, but at the same time, to me, all of that seems just extreme and ridiculous.  And somebody is on a power trip and need to control something because other things in their life are completely and totally out of control or were at some point.  That's what it seems like. There's just some boys that are, people that are dealing with some traumas and it's coming out in a way of, I need to control. I need to make sure the situation is always in my favor.  That's what it seems like to me.   The false idols like Disneyland and, you know, the extras - that part does make sense to me. 

Becca:  Yeah. Well, it's been interesting too, because a lot of the gripes that the parents of cult members have had against them is, you're dishonoring your parents and you need to repent.  Disrespecting your parents in the name of following God and it's definitely a rebelling kind of thing.  You know, just need a break with the parents and, in a lot of situations, for example, one of the women that left the cult for 12 days and went back – Catherine Groves.  In 2013, it was a huge stink cause she called her parents, met them on the road. Then went back to their house for 12 days, allegedly with the intention of leaving the cult. And then she went right back to it.  She said that they wouldn't let her talk to her parents because they were afraid her parents would kidnap her.  That's what they did.  Then she came back.  And whether that's true or not, she said that she was having trouble with her parents.  I'm not sure what the truth of any of that is, really only Catherine knows, but both of her parents were missionaries. They, in response to this, drove their RV down to Wells and parked there until their daughter came back.  Their response to it was also very controlling. 

Carrie: It was pretty gung ho. 

Becca: Yeah. They're like, hell no.  

Carrie: We'll watch you. We're going to keep our eyes on you. 

Krista: At one point they were also in a cult and she was too young to remember, and that's why they became yeah.And that's how they became missionaries, but really it was to save other people from potential cults.  

Carrie:  That was very important to them that they get their daughter out of this cult.

Becca:   It was also very important to her that she get away from her parents. 

Krista: Maybe her parents were delusional about the cult that they were in. 

Becca:  The neighbor, his name is Matt Myers. He owns www.churchofwells.org, which is a gaff of the church's official site, which is churchofwells.com. He completely skinned their site so it looks exactly like his site. It reminded me of one of those abortion clinics where you're like, are you pregnant and scared?  And then you end up getting told that your fetus looks like a tiny baby and, whatever. So they skinned it.  It's like a website debunking the cult that's gaffed on to that.  One of the blogs that I read is that - it was about the father of this woman named Prithy, who ran away from home to marry one of the church elders.  And he was basically saying that her father was blackmailed and the way that her father was blackmailed - well her father was, I don't want you marrying my daughter. And he's, well, if you try to stop me, I'm going to tell everyone about the abuse.  I'm going to tell everyone about, I'm going to expose that you hit your daughter and, you know, so I think a lot of these people have been abused growing up.  And basically the Matt Myers was, blackmail’s sin, and she needs to repent for dishonoring her parents, and whether or not the abuse was real it was used for bad purposes.  More than anything, rather than judging who's right and who's wrong, is it really sheds light on the situation where a lot of these cult members are coming from. Then they're carrying on the abuse cycle because there's a lot of child abuse that has been alleged to go on in this cult.

Krista: A lot, even as much as a death of a child - an infant. 

Becca: Baby Faith. Faith died.   

Carrie:  I read a report that said that the baby had actually died the day before.

Becca:  So was it like a resurrection prayer circle?

Carrie:   I hope not.  I hope not. They had to know that's what they were doing though. You guys?

Krista:  No it was very much so.  The coroner's report said the baby had been dead. They were praying over it to bring it back to life.

 Becca: The neighbor in the podcast Cultish was saying that, so basically he found out about the cult cause a friend of his family was getting married.  He went to a wedding to her wedding and they noticed that the people had these switches that they'd  hit their kids with and they kept hearing the sound of the switches, but they never heard kids crying out in pain. And they're, that's weird. And yeah. And then one of the former members, who's a YouTube testimonial I listened to, you was saying that the elders would pressure the parents and to beating their children for insubordination. So it was traumatic for all of them, you know? 

Krista:  Every normal thing that kids do.  And it was actually his wife, because he said when they got there that they were completely and totally separated.

Becca: Y'all want to talk about how you get introduced into the cult and the headphones?

Krista:  That's so weird. You have to walk around with headphones that just has the Sean guy yelling scriptures in your ear, even in public.

Becca:  And services are  hours and hours and hours and hours long. And don't they make use of fasting to get your vision?

Krista: There's another one that, oh, you can't eat for this amount of time.  Then you're delusional.  Duh, that's just common sense. Physiological sense cause you start hallucinating after a while.

Becca:   Which we've seen in other cults.  Just having to walk around, wearing headphones, walk through town because people that live in town, they're , Oh yeah, they're like that one’s new cause he's walking around time with his headphones in, just listening to this guy shout scriptures at you. 

Krista: They’re not allowed to talk to other people while they're doing it either.  

Becca:   You’re supposed to be - not completely isolated, but deterred from interacting with people outside the cult.

Krista: The non-saved or whatever they're called.

Becca:   Yeah. I don't think this is actually abusive, but I think it's kind of weird. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think anyone who's in their early thirties is an elder period. 

Krista: Hell no. Not in your early thirties…

Carrie: Unless you're in Children of the Corn! 

Becca:  Another thing this whole movement kind of reminds me of is the whole 1960s, trust me when and over 30, counterculture mentality, because it is very young and it's very much  I don't think it's about rebelling against your parents, but I think it, I mean, it's hard, especially in  the upbringings that these people have had.  It's hard to rebel against your parents and they've done it and they're doing it.  Trust no one over 35!

Carrie: Trust no one over 35 is kind of cool, in a way, you've got that next generation thing going, they do have some points. Their thing with yelling at Joel Olsteen. I mean, come on. That guy does not need that house. The preacher that mega church [00:20:00] preacher, he makes like $300 million a year. 

Krista:  Ridiculous. I cannot believe those mega churches. 

Becca: They're also known around town as the church of hot boys, which I thought was adorable. 

Carrie: I thought that was cute.

Krista: Yeah. I mean, if you like farm hand type of boys then yes.  So, I mean…

Carrie: They're clean cut and they dress nice. They're hot. 

Krista: They wear a lot of flannel. 

Carrie:  They look like lumberjacks, Krista. They're cute. 

Krista: I don’t know that I'd call that a lumberjack. They look like they look like Texas farm boy. 

Carrie:  They look like granola enough. 

Krista: Yeah. They're like hippy-Texas. Well, not hippies.

Carrie:  Kind of the shoes. Did you see the hippie shoes?

Becca:  Who is hottest? These guys, Russian Jesus, or Nature Boy? I know that's not even a question. 

Carrie:  Gosh, that's a hard one. Isn't it?  

Krista: Each one in a different way.

Carrie:  Was hot!

Krista:  And you know, I'm a sucker for a farm boy.  You know.

Carrie:  I am too. I'm I liked that granola look myself.  But Russian Jesus.

Becca:  Dude. I don't know, I bet sex with a Nature Boy would be amazing. I bet that sex with Russian Jesus would be amazing. And I bet if you could, I bet you could probably get those farm boys to have some like pretty fun kinky times.  I’m more of a…

Krista: Screaming scriptures at them.

Carrie:  If we were going for the sex aspect, number one would be Nature Boy, number two, Russian Jesus, then have two granola boys. 

Krista: Well, because we all know Jesus, Jesus definitely got it in.  There was a miss there's a whole chunk of his teenage preteen puberty, most of his adulthood, there's no way Jesus did not get it in.

Becca:  Dude. I want to know what happened in those years. And I want to know it for Ryan. 

Krista: Nay-nay. 

Becca:  If you're out there, Ryan, I want to know, I want to know. 

Krista: What did Jesus do in those?  What was it let's see from the age of 12 to 32.

Carrie: I have a theory, but I can't say it on air. You guys and it’s serious. I think I know what he was doing.I do.  We do need to go to Prague and make sure, kay.  For bonus content. We got to go find out where Jesus was that during those years, Krista's interested.   

Krista: How do you think he meant, what was it Maid Magdalene or whatever the hell it was?

Becca:  Mary Magdalene?  Yeah.

Krista:  Yeah.  Really do you think he just stumbled upon her?   They were in the same hood for years.

Becca:   I've heard every pitch in the book to you. I've heard if you like the Old Testament, you're going to love the New Testament. I even heard this one. It was on Halloween night and my coworker was driving me home and she starts telling me about this Texas axe killer lady. I forget her name. And she was on death row. And she was, do you want to know what happened to her? And I was, what? And she's, she found Jesus in her loving heart.  And she went to heaven and I was, ah!

Krista:   It's like, I don't think it works that way, but okay. Because honestly, I – you can’t do some of the things some of these people do and just say, Oh Lord, I'm sorry. And do your hail marries and whatever. And boom. No.

Carrie:  No, but if I'm programming you and I want you on the team and I want you to play, I'm going to say I'm gonna forgive you and give you another chance so you go out and Animal Cross for me for the next 10 years and be good and not axe murder no one no more. I just need somebody to go get the pigs in.

Krista:  Well, what about the ones that after every time they axe murder they repent?  

Carrie:  You can control them even better. I need my deviance in any population. You need to think like a ruler. That's why they let them live too and let some of them out.  That guy in Ecuador that killed 200 girls got out.  They give you a chance because in some societies, they want you to see that everyone is redeemable because they want everyone to know that they have a chance to get back on the team and contribute to the pot.

Krista:  They don't do anything to maybe curb the urge to kill people. 

Carrie:   Sure they do. They make you feel included. They want you to come, they'll come to your house, Krista. 

Krista:  Then they'll also enable it because they'll hide it if you do it.

Carrie:   Do you see?

Krista:  It's not perfect. It's awful. And it's a sick system. It could be, because look at all those fricking Catholic priests, look at all of those, like men are totally destroyed and it's okay because they repented to God. I'm sorry. I apologize. But…

Carrie:  That’s how they think.  You have to know how they think.  

Becca:  Circling back around, Church of Wells is calling these fuckers out. You know, they are calling them out…

Krista: You stray from the line, you're going hell yeah.  Okay, so you strayed from the line, so your thought process is that God can change his mind. Oh, you've been good for X amount of time, but don't, you still remember when you did this?  There's still a chance that no matter how much they stay on the line, God's going to change his mind and they might go to hell.

Carrie: Terrifying part to this cult.  That's too much right there, folks. 

Becca:   Then their salvation is contingent on their self-loathing too.  God can change his - if your self-esteem gets better, you're going to hell.  And that's perfect for keeping someone in a subjugated position.

Carrie:  Because I need you humble.  

Becca:   Uh-huh.  One of the things so this guy, Chris, who was a deacon in the church before he left.  Very charismatic, very fervent believer. His mom was dying of cancer and he wanted to go see her and the cult told him no, because going to visit his mom while she was dying was a form of familial idolatry.  So he snuck his ass out in the middle of the night and never went back.

Carrie:  And that's a good boy. That's a good boy.  Okay. I don't care.

Krista: Because just doesn't like the New Testament say that you  have to respect thy father or whatever?

Carrie:  Old Testament, it's the Old Testament that the 10 Commandments are there says you need to respect thy father and mother, father.

Krista: But father refers to it as God, not your actual…

Carrie:  No in the 10 Commandments it's telling you to, you need to be good to your mama and daddy. Yes. 

Becca:  We're in Texas.

Carrie: So here's an important point. Krista's bringing up a very important point folks.  The New Testament is where they get that, Krista.  Christian religion are taught, supposed to be. You're not supposed to go by the Old Testament.  That's just there for history. You're supposed to go by the New Testament, a new command I give to you, love one another.  We’re only supposed to have one command  you're not under the old 10 Commandments.  Not under the Old Testament.  Not under eye for an eye.   We’re in the new thing, but in this new thing, it says you can walk away from your parents, brothers, and sisters, which is crazy because that doesn't say that in the Old Testament at all.  

Becca:  And it's been really liberating for a lot of them. Speaking about, love your neighbor. Let's talk about the neighbor. 

Krista:  Well, this is one of those weird situations where it's, okay, who is being the aggressor?

Carrie: Who’s the agonist? 

Krista:   Yeah. Who's who is the protagonist? Who is the victim? Who is the villain? Who is the, the shamer.

Becca:  Cause they keep getting on each other's lawns. 

Krista:   Oh Lordy. But you know, his fricking planter boxes in his garden are butted right on the right on the part property line, right on the property line right there. 

Becca:  That's a dick move. 

Krista:   There's no space. When they're in their recreational area, they're in the Church of Wells worship church area.

Becca:  Yeah. Yeah.  Let's talk about…

Krista:   That's a dick move. 

Becca:  Well, there's been kind of a series of dick moves with this guy.  Basically, Matt Meyer again, got into the church, not into the church, but associated with the church by going to his friend's wedding. And him and his wife witnessed a lot of really. Well, basically, as soon as they came in, their faith was questioned and they're hardcore Christians. And they were just this isn't right. 

Krista:   They have nine children, hardcore Christians, which, Hey, good on you because 

Becca:  Magic, magic badge. You're strong. Yeah. 

Krista:   No problem. They may become really good human beings, as long as they don't hold grudges.

Becca:  Yes. They went to this wedding and you know, they were just so uncomfortable just by being…because the proselytization is very, very confrontational and it's interesting. Cause it's kind of become like a bit of a conversion battle where he's trying to get people to leave the church and the church tried to get people to join the church across the freaking property line.  But basically the family, I guess he was going to move to Texas anyways. They ended up deciding to go to Wells because they were worried for their friend and wanted to get her out of this. They ended up moving right next to the cult and he says that this was by accident that they bought land and then the church ended up building on the land.  Krista’s shaking her head. What’s up?

Krista:  I don't know that that's necessarily all the way true, because if anybody has bought land and, or a house, you know, it takes a while.

Becca:  It does. It's an involved process.  It's kind of, I don't know.  He ended up moving specifically to Wells, largely to try to get his friend out of this cult and other people out of this call and then ended up moving next door to them. And then he bought the URL that gaffes the church’s URL and completely copies their website except for the text.  So he's trolling, he's trolling hard. And then he starts a YouTube channel. Oh my gosh. What's the YouTube channel, a Grace and Truth for the Church of Wells, so it's already got that passive aggression, grace and truth, bless your heart. I'm going to ruin your life. Yeah. Yeah. A bunch of former members of the cult are now his employees.  But, you know, if you're getting out of this codependence situation and getting back on your [00:30:00] feet, good on him. But but yeah, it definitely seems unnecessary level of antagonism. 

Krista:  Oh hell yeah. Oh, all the way.

Becca:  And I don't know, just a lot of the justifications for why the church is wrong he also grounds it in scripture.  You've got this kind of battle of the scriptures where they're just like screaming Bible verses that each other across multiple media. 

Krista:  Yes. Or lawns, or like foundations to buildings being built at, well, even at the wedding.  You know, the speak now or forever, hold your peace park. He spoke now.  He did that and it, I mean, it is what it is. Like if you're genuinely concerned about a friend being in a situation that you feel is unsafe, you should say something.  I don't feel like that's a bad thing.  That's cool.  I understand his point of view on this, but I do think that the religion and I do also think that the Catholic religion sometimes is a little up its own ass when it comes to who's doing what right and wrong.  It's pretty funny to watch these two battle about the same damn book, but at the same time, I mean, whatever floats your boat. I mean, if they are legitimately like abusing people and mentally, psychologically, all of those things then good on you. But if it's just people that want to live by the Old Testament, let them, let them live in the fear and brimstone. 

Becca:  Yeah.  And be there for them if they choose to leave.

Krista: Yeah. That's, I mean, it's, anybody's provocative to live how they want, you know, and even then.  Even if it is a cult, who are we or the government to say that we need to get intervened if people are there willingly?  At the same time, we can't prove that, but at the same time…

Becca:  Well and you hear about them being like forced that, you know, they're never physically coerced to stay, but they're told that if they  leave, they're going against God and they're going to hell, but that's the same thing every church tells you.

Carrie: It really does.

Becca:  So, you know, it's interesting. I was thinking about it cause it's - there's a lot of abuse and manipulation and stuff that comes through this church, but a lot of the harms are not exactly unique. 

Carrie: Nope. 

Krista:  They're really not. They're not unique at all. I mean, except I think maybe for how young they are.  

Becca:  Yeah. And I think that also pisses people off that they're millennials.  Oh, millennials ruining cults, or I don't know. I don't know. They may, they may have napkins and go to Applebee's. I don't know that.

Krista:  I mean, a cult is a cult. It doesn't matter.  I mean, even Jim Jones was trying to still start a cult when he was like a child.  

Becca:  There's interesting charisma at play too. With testimonial from Sean Morris’ girlfriend, she said she did not like him at first because he was always standing on his freaking milk box telling people to go into hell.  But he grew on her and he had that charisma and that draw.  And then she realized that she was in a spiritually and psychologically abusive relationship and left.

Carrie: But she felt the draw of that being. Yeah, she felt the charisma.

Becca:  Charisma’s a weird thing because it's, it doesn't necessarily mean likability. It doesn't necessarily make it there's something about it that makes you feel it drawn to it.  Not necessarily good, but like compelled. 

Carrie: Correct. It doesn't have to necessarily be good. 

Becca:  Oh my gosh. So what do y'all think is next for this cult? 

Carrie: Well, we were talking about it earlier and we kind of decided there might be something - a showdown on the lawns coming. 

Becca:  Right. Who's getting off who's lawn first?

Carrie: Yeah. Who's going to do that? Is there going to be a shooting? Is there going to be…

Krista:  Well, they would call the cops on each other a lot. But then yell scriptures at each other.

Carrie:  I hope, I hope I hope they settled down on the child abuse because that's going to be the way in for the government. Of course.  They don’t tolerate that shit. 

Krista:  No, that's, I mean, that's usually anytime the government ever gets involved in a, in a cult or a group that they feel is threatening is if child abuse is involved.  Child and sexual abuse. 

Becca: Yeah. So stop beating your kids!  Just period. Don't don't do it. 

Krista:  One story where one of the former members who actually ended up going back.  She said that Sean's eight-month-old son had bruises on his lung or legs and she asked his wife and she said that he wouldn't go to sleep and he wasn't submitting to his father. 

Becca: It's terrible. Visible bruises. 

Krista:  Yeah. It's what, what does that mean? It's an eight-month-old child.  

Becca: Oh, you try to get them to cry less? Beat you to sleep. That always works.

Krista:   It's perfect.

Becca: Yeah. It's that's interesting. I don't know. I guess it kind of seems like there's going to be a showdown. It sounds like their numbers have decreased since the whole Catherine Groves incident and Dr. Phil incident and the Baby Faith incident.

Krista:   Oh yeah. Well, and the YouTube channel isn't helping either. 

Becca: No, the YouTube channel is not helping.

Carrie: Do you think the neighbor is having an effect? 

Becca: Oh yeah.

Krista:    Definitely.

Carrie: I bet that makes him happy. 

Krista:    For any good cause I mean, if there is a legitimate reason to be super concerned about these people, then yes. But anybody is…

Carrie: And he's got the means and the funds to do it.  Who's to tell him not to move next to him and, and…you know.

Krista:  Or who knows? Maybe they'll become friends. Maybe they'll figure out how to come to a happy medium.

Carrie: That would be, that would show some real Christianity. 

Becca: It really would.

Krista:  That would be the epitome. 

Becca: Love thy neighbor.

Carrie: Love thy neighbor. That's what we should write a letter to them and say, Hey.

This is what we think you guys should do, but on the YouTubes, and then you guys could all have new all the new followers you could stand. 

Becca: Is that, is that the title for this episode? Love thy neighbor.

Krista:  Right? Yep. That's it!

Becca:  Took until the end of the episode to figure out the fuck we were talking about this whole time, but we were talking about love.

Krista:  Don't be a dick. Yeah, don't be a Dick. That's pretty much what's - even Satanism their rules essentially are, Hey, just don't be too big of a dick. 

Becca:  Right? I like paganism cause it's the sun and the moon are doing some cool shit. And also don't be a dick.

Krista:   Yeah. Because if you do me a dick it will come back.

Becca:  Three times and it kind of seems to.

Carrie: Yeah, it does.

Becca:  If y'all have anything you want to share about the Church of Wells, let us know.

Krista:  Or how you feel about it. 

Carrie: We're gonna keep our eye on them.  We liked this story a lot. 

Becca:  Yeah. We're going to watch the hot boys cult very closely.

Krista:   I mean eventually. I mean, who knows?

Carrie: That’s the name!  The hot boys cult. 

Krista:   It's a hot boy summer. That'll give us…

Carrie:  We need juicy titles folks.  Sorry.

Becca:  Hot boys gone wild in Texas over Jesus. They're like, we hate ourselves, but we're so sexy. 

Carrie:  The hot boys. 

Krista:   No, this is how we contribute to their self-loathing. 

Becca:  They’re like, Oh, no, those pagan bitches think we’re hot, this is terrible.  

Carrie:  But we think of you!

Becca:  Crying and then feeling bad about it.  

Krista:   Oh goodness.

Becca:  I see you, boo. I see you. Don't worry. It's fine.

Carrie:  We’re going to Wells!  We’re taking pictures of all our favorite ones.

Becca:  What is it that Steph says? But that donk though.

Carrie:  Go visit the neighbor.

Krista:   The neighbor looks pretty nice though. 

Carrie:  His garden looks lovely.

Becca:  Especially for that area, I’m impressed.

Carrie:  It really does for the area. 

Becca:  I support that.

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