When it comes to human trafficking, boys are often overlooked. That's why the CrimeJuicy Gang is taking this s*&t apart in our two-part human trafficking season finale. In this episode, we delve into three notorious cases where deep human trafficking networks were unearthed in the United States for the sexual exploitation of underage boys and what taboos kept - and continue to keep - these secrets hidden. From the Delta Project to the Franklin Coverup, we're doing our best to hold it together folks. Join us for the bitter juice.
Want to learn more and help the folks on the front lines fighting human trafficking by supporting safe sex work? Check out our friends at SWOP Behind Bars and https://dec17philly.com/
This episode was produced with support from:
John H. Mudgett's award-winning horror fiction masterpiece, Crazy is as Crazy Does: the Life of a Serial Killer.
M. Dante and friends' erotic anthology Cin Sado Noir, a time capsule tribute to sadomasochistic, femme fatale, and neo noir romance.
Critically acclaimed musical comedian and one-mom-band Jessica Delfino on Instagram and Twitter @JessicaDelfino and on TikTok @JustSomeMom.
Want to support the podcast and it's three hard-working ladies, and get access to ad-free content, bonus episodes, exclusive expert interviews and more? Join our Patreon community for as little as $2 a month at www.patreon.com/crimejuicygang/.
When it comes to human trafficking, boys are often overlooked. That's why the CrimeJuicy Gang is taking this s*&t apart in our two-part human trafficking season finale. In this episode, we delve into three notorious cases where deep human trafficking networks were unearthed in the United States for the sexual exploitation of underage boys and what taboos kept - and continue to keep - these secrets hidden. From the Delta Project to the Franklin Coverup, we're doing our best to hold it together folks. Join us for the bitter juice.
Want to learn more and help the folks on the front lines fighting human trafficking by supporting safe sex work? Check out our friends at SWOP Behind Bars and https://dec17philly.com/
This episode was produced with support from:
John H. Mudgett's award-winning horror fiction masterpiece, Crazy is as Crazy Does: the Life of a Serial Killer.
M. Dante and friends' erotic anthology Cin Sado Noir, a time capsule tribute to sadomasochistic, femme fatale, and neo noir romance.
Critically acclaimed musical comedian and one-mom-band Jessica Delfino on Instagram and Twitter @JessicaDelfino and on TikTok @JustSomeMom.
Want to support the podcast and it's three hard-working ladies, and get access to ad-free content, bonus episodes, exclusive expert interviews and more? Join our Patreon community for as little as $2 a month at www.patreon.com/crimejuicygang/.
[00:00:00]
Becca: CrimeJuicy Cocktail Hour. I'm Becca.
Krista: I'm Krista.
Carrie: And I'm Carrie Anne. We're going to be doing our human trafficking episode special. We know that there's males that are trafficked, not just women. Others that want the special niches that are being created by the internet and the porn industries.
Becca: You can make a lot of fucking money providing for those very special niches.
Krista: Y'all these men out here got some mommy issues. Okay. Sorry. We went a little off the rails there.
Carrie: I’d like for you to expand on that, Krista. Don’t go there and then stop.
Krista: I digress.
Carrie: We laugh because we're going to cry in this episode. We laugh because we're going to cry.
Becca: If you check out the show notes and on our social media, we've got links to organizations you can support or get resources from to help victims of human trafficking, a big thank you to SWOP – Behind Bars, The Sex Worker Outreach Project – Behind Bars. They do a lot to help victims of human trafficking without criminalizing sex work. We love them and they have provided us with a whole bunch of resources that we'll be sharing with you in the show notes.
Krista: There's a lot to go over. It's an unfortunate truth that needs to be talked about because so many people don't want to talk about it. It is unpleasant.
Becca: Yes, I am drinking a beer at noon because it is unpleasant.
Krista: It needs to be talked about because it's happening in your children's schools, in your neighborhood, anytime you're on an airplane, any hotel you ever go to, any massive large event you are going to, government parties.
Carrie: The cultural world of human trafficking is conspiracy theories colliding with facts.
Becca: Pizzagate happened around, you know, we've got Jeffrey Epstein, we've got all this shit coming to light. Conspiracies don't just come out of nowhere, whether or not they're true. Conspiracies don't just happen in a vacuum. There's always a cultural context to them.
We're going to be talking specifically about young boys, teens and young men as victims of sex trafficking. A, because it doesn't get talked about enough even male sexual assault, and B, it's terrible. Reading accounts where boys and teens and young man are trafficked. It seems like it ends in murder more often than in other situations. Some of the situations we're looking at it like, oh my God, couldn't, if you could just raped him, holy shit. This is really awful.
Krista: Yeah, they could have just raped him, but then they're still left there with that a lifetime of trauma.
Becca: They don’t have to torture him to death and force…
Krista: The torturing. Well, that's really the weird snuff films.
Becca: Yeah. It gets real dark real fast when it comes to trafficking of boys. Safe Horizons defines human trafficking as, the illegal trade in human beings through recruitment or abduction by means of forced fraud or coercion for the purposes of forced labor debt, bondage, or sexual exploitation. Traffickers control their victims by withholding identification, work authorization or travel documents, demanding repayment for real or alleged debts, violence and threats of violence against the victims or their loved ones.
Constant surveillance of isolation - barring this, coaching on how to talk to others, including law enforcement and forcing economic dependency. As of 2017, 4.8 million people are trafficked for sexual exploitation. The national human trafficking hotline showed a 25% jump in cases of human trafficking from 2017 to 2018. That was back then. It's increased since then. Women and girls account for 71% of all trafficking victims. But what about the boys?
Carrie:Because boys aren't talked about this number of exploited boys is much higher.
Becca: The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children reported that in 2018, one in every seven of the 23,500 runaways reported to their organization were likely victims of child sex trafficking. At the same time, the Global Report on Trafficking in Persons estimated that 27% of all detected human trafficking victims worldwide. Of that cohort, one in three are boys. The percentage of boys being trafficked, just skyrockets when it comes to trafficking children and teens. And with boys being trafficked, there's some patterns, boys are being used for blackmail.
Krista: It becomes the gay shame. Here's an example: I'll use a politician. We're going to this special party that we, you can do whatever you want. Just tell us what you want. Here's your menu.
Carrie: That's been happening for a thousand years.
Krista: But then it goes from blackmail to it being their normal Wednesday evening.
Becca: Where it's, that was pretty fun. I already did it. Do you want to bring those boys back?
Krista: Yeah. This was thrilling. This is exciting. A lot of it starts off as blackmail tools, well, there are just sickos out there, but for some of the trafficking, especially with boys, it's a blackmail tool. To be like oh, you had sex with an underage girl. Pay them off, whatever, did you get her pregnant? We'll take care of that. But when it's a boy, it's oh, but now you're gay.
Becca: Yeah. You're gay.
Carrie: And, and a pedophile.
Becca: Which is fucked up that those two things get linked in culture so much because it's absolutely not true. With a, what is it pedophiles? What was the organization that was trying to oh, but we're LGBTQ. Yeah, fuck those guys.
Krista: There was like, no, no PIE is in Europe. I forget what it is here in America. But yeah, they were like, here's our flag, isn't it? It looks like the bisexual flag. It's like the similar color.
Becca: And as I think. Yeah. And it's like, no, no, no. If someone can age out of your range of attraction, that's on you. You're not attracted to the person.
Krista: It's messed up that for females though, we're supposed to look young, we're supposed to be hairless, we're supposed to, all of those, those things that they tell us is, oh, if an older man is attracted to that, they're attracted to young women.
Carrie: Young women are, what are young women?
Krista: Fertile, scientifically.
Carrie: Attractive. When you look at anything anthropologically on a body, you look at it sexually. How can it sexually attract a mate? How that adaptive to attract a mate, everything.
Krista: When we're ovulating, they're more red and plump. Our waistlines are thinner as women when we're ovulating, and that is all to attract men to say, Hey, you know what? I'm fertile, let's do this.
Becca: And then as soon as your period hits, you're just transforming back into my true form!
Carrie: Ah, witchery!
Becca: We're going to be focusing on three main incidents of child sex trafficking rings focused primarily on the trafficking of boys and teens that have been discovered. This is specifically in the United States. It's such a broad topic. We're focusing on just the US this time. Next time we'll get into some more fucked up shit from all around the world. But because these instances is where society really became privy to the fact that boys could be victims of sexual assault and human trafficking, that they were victims of sexual assault and human trafficking, and the depth to which they were being exploited and the networks of exploitation and how vast they were, and how these networks touched every trust and pillar of society from business leaders to political leaders, the CIA, the school system, CPS, the motherfucking Boy Scouts - which it's now it's gotten to the point where Boy Scouts getting molested is a punchline.
Krista: Do you remember the 50 Boys Scouts?
Becca: I do remember the 50…
Krista: Did you hear any weird noises that night?
Becca: I didn’t, but we had a dance off. We did, camping out for my sister's birthday at this group campsite, Krista was there, and we were drinking some beers and getting ready to start our night. And then all of a sudden 50 Boy Scouts show up at the group camping site next to us.
Krista: The campground people, they were walking around and they're oh, Hey guys, just , put your drinks in your, your cups. So like whatever. And they're, oh yeah, there's about to be Boy Scouts here. Now, mind you, this isn't like a small campground and I guarantee you, there were other places. And they knew about your reservation for months, and definitely knew about these Boys Scouts reservations for probably a fucking year, or they probably have a standing reservation. They just chose, they chose to put to them right next to a group of adults that had booked it for what, three, four days?
Becca: Yeah. Two nights. But yeah, we're like, oh God, are we going to get some bonus contents? So the Boy Scouts show up. We're, maybe they're just here for dinner. And then they started packing in camping gear.
Krista: Their city went up. Just, BOOM! 50 fucking million little.
Becca: They played played the bugle in the morning at like 7:00 AM. It was me and Katie and Yemo, and Shawn were up and we’re, they're going to play the song. They're going to play the bugle and then they played, the bugle and everyone else was asleep in the tent and we’re like, ha ha. And then they started blasting electronic music to get them up and moving and doing exercises.
Krista: Hey, free rave.
Becca: Right?
Krista: Okay. I am going to say this, the Boy Scouts are not bad. It is unfortunate that there were people that chose to take advantage of their power and their place. It sucks because the boy Scouts is not a bad program. It is not bad to teach your children how to survive if something hits the fucking fan, not a bad thing. If [00:10:00] one of my kids wanted to be in the Boy Scouts, I would. I'm not saying that I wouldn't investigate…
Becca: People that we're going to look into used - one of them was in the Big Brothers program, he exploited that position. There was a gym teacher, it’s trusted people that use their position to groom boys into being trafficked. First we're going to start with the Delta Project.
This came out in the 1970s and was a nationwide sex trafficking ring operated by John David Norman with help from Phil Paskey in the 1970s. It was literally a newsletter. It was a newsletter that got mailed out from which..
Krista: Postcard, not just like a newsletter, like a fucking postcard.
Becca: And it was based in Texas in and the Dallas area. And it was a newsletter from which pedophiles could literally order boys. John David Norman was arrested in 1973 and when he was arrested, 30,000 index cards with between 50,000 and a hundred thousand names of people across the country subscribed to this newsletter were found in his home. The police also seized booklets with pictures and names of teenage and young adult males that were available for rent. The way that he lured boys in was he put out ads for the Odyssey Foundation and targeted young runaways. Do y'all remember - another South Park reference - the episode where they killed off Chef, where they were talking about the Super Adventure Club where these men traveled to foreign places and fucked little boys? Right.
Krista: That's real.
Becca: Yeah. Pretty sure it was based on the Odyssey Foundation where it's you get to have adventures with like mentor older men and travel.
Krista: No, that's still going on. It's not, it never stopped. And I think most people probably re- I mean, the people that were alive and adults when all this came to light, remember this for sure. But I would say, what was it just recently? It, is it on, I think HBO Max or something right now? I think they called it Candyman or something like that. And it's the correlation of…
Becca: Oh yeah, there were w there was a lot of, oh oh my gosh. I've got it laid out in the notes for our…was it, this has been tied to murder. Is that one? The Candyman was a Dean Corll.
Krista: Yeah. Where they tied Deal Corll, Paskey…
Becca: John Wayne Gacy, associates with Paskey, and Francis Sheldon of North Fox Island and Lake Michigan, which we'll get into. Summer camp!
Krista: Yay!!
Becca: These boys that would so, Norman targeted young runaways put up ads for the Odyssey Foundation. These boys would end up in the Delta Project, and when this came to light and Norman was arrested for the first time in 1973, it definitely broke people's brain pans because you know, this whole, oh my God, there's so many people that are, you know, I think they honed in on the gay thing and they also honed in on like the pedophile thing and…
Krista: But mostly the gay thing honestly.
Becca: It's sucks that like that is…Phil Paskey helped Norman keep the Delta Project going while John David Norman was still in prison. He's in prison for all this shit and the newsletter is still going on.
Krista: And he's running it from pr - telling him…
Becca: Like he actually used the prison printer.
Krista: How did they allow that to happen?
Becca: These predators…
Krista: Whose pockets was he in?
Becca: Very charming, and very manipulative.
Carrie: And they find each other and they help each other.
Becca: The network, what really came to light, in the 1970s where it was like, okay, when you find one of these people, you find a whole ring of them.
Krista: Oh yeah.
Becca: The network of, you know, it wasn't just isolated incidents of like sexual abuse. It was trafficking.
Carrie: Whole packs, whole packs.
Becca: He’s tied to Phil Paskey with close with John Wayne Gacy. Everyone's favorite clown. Dean Candyman Corll sexually abused, tortured, and murdered 28 young men in Texas. He told one of the boys who - he actually groomed one of the boys to help him procure other boys.
Krista: Two, two.
Becca: Two, and one of them ended up killing them, but he told one of them that he worked with the Dallas-based organization that bought and sold boys and murdered them if they got out of line. So if they ratted on them or fucked with them, like they would not be safe because there was this network. And that was before everything about John David Norman running a fucking pedophile newsletter out of Dallas came to light.
Krista: And then how, how did Paskey, who was in prison with Norman and continuing to run the ring once he was released before Norman ended up working for John Wayne Gacy?
Becca: I'm pretty sure it had to do with construction.
Krista: Huh. Construction.
Carrie: Politics.
Krista: Well, we'll, we'll say construction.
Carrie: I think it was politics, pretty sure.
Becca: And then North Fox island in Lake Michigan was also tied to this network and this is a, this was a multi-state child porn ring run by Francis Sheldon. He exploited his position of authority and the Brother Paul's Children's Mission as a Big Brother and with the Ann Arbor YMCA to fly boys on his private plane to his private island to produce child porn. There were school teachers and all kinds of shit involved where they would groom boys to help too.
Parents would willingly send their kids to the summer camp on North Fox island. So a pedophile island. Does that sound familiar, y’all?
Carrie: Yeah. Yes.
Krista: Yes. Yes it does.
Becca: Fuck you. Jeffrey. You're not original.
Krista: Nah. Hey, except for that weird temple, I mean,
Becca: Okay, well…
Krista: We'll give them the temple.
Carrie: Even that was a copy of a copy of a copy.
Krista: Yeah. The only thing original about him was his egg-shaped penis.
Carrie: Yeah. Yeah.
Krista: I don't know. Is that…
Carrie: We're going to be talking about that egg-shaped penis in hell, Epstein.
Krista: There has to be a photo. Why hasn't the photo been released?
Carrie: Photo?
Krista: Is this, is this a medical condition like micropenis?
Carrie: This is the only dick pic I ever wanted in my life is Jeffrey Epstein's egg dick. And we can’t get it.
Becca: We can't get a dick pic from beyond the grave? And…
Krista: How did it work?
Becca: If you get a dick pic from beyond the grave it’s going to end up slipped under your door. And you're going to have like a wisp of air. You're going to open the door and leaves are gonna blow away, and you'll be like, Jeffrey? Is that you? And then you'll look at the picture and you’ll vomit a little in your mouth, but you'll swallow it. And you’ll take it inside.
Carrie: Okay. Listen, Jeffrey Epstein used a vibrator a lot. They said like 80 to 90% of it was vibrator rape. That's why a lot of people didn't really, he was using that as the unit. I don't think it worked very well, Krista.
Becca: Okay, so the Delta Project, North Fox Island…I think a lot of the reasons that parents weren't realizing that they were sending kids to predatory situations, they’re oh, he's spending a lot of time with this teacher who’s mentoring them. Okay. You know, he's spending a lot of time with the Candy Man. I'm so glad he's got like a positive male role model. It just wasn't even in their consciousness that boys could be raped and abused and trafficked because it just wasn't…
Krista: Men…
Becca: Just not talked about.
Krista: Even just as much as women are sought after, the same thing happens to men. Nobody talks about it because men are supposed to be the alphas. They're the ones that do that there, it doesn't get done to them. That's why these things happen. And that's why that was probably allowed to happen. Especially back then in the seventies.
Becca: Yeah, well and you don't bring it up because if you brought it up, people think you're gay.
Krista: Exactly. Then you throw the eighties…
Carrie: I had a guy tell me that he was so horny from the age of 12, you know, you really do feel like fucking a goat.
Krista: You're crazy.
Carrie: And that's another guy, whenever you hear about another guy fucking anything, you know, you really have no empathy for them. At least you're fucking! They're terrible! Men are terrible, you guys.
Krista: So were girls.
Becca: In last, in last season’s human trafficking episode, we did baby trafficking and we brought up how like baby trafficking was really a product of all of these conflicting societal pressures that just crushed people into this fucked up situation. We see the exact same thing in the case of the Delta Project and then the 1970s and in general in the trafficking of boys, there's so much like: this doesn't happen. You're not allowed to talk about it. If you talk about it, like all the shame is gonna be put on you and you're going to have to deal with all the stigma on top of the rape and trauma. Plus the grooming, the groomings, they make you feel special, make you an accomplice. Also too, when the North Fox Island stuff came out, one of the men, he was a teenager and he was groomed to be a photographer. He was, he was implicated and the police threatened him with charges and we're, you did this, you're in trouble too. And it was fucked up because…
Krista: He's, I was forced to do this. You [00:20:00] think I really wanted to do this?
It's not okay.
Becca: It’s a really fucked up power dynamic. Then there's all of these consequences that suddenly you have to bear the brunt of, and it's these, these predators know what they're doing. They've got tactics, they've got ways of keeping you complicit and under their thumb.
Krista: Well, and in the same way that, you know, women are used to produce babies, they, there are, there are men and boys in trafficking that are there to get the women pregnant. That's their purpose in that situation to be raped constantly, and then get the girls pregnant to produce more children.
Becca: Actually the next situation may or may not be that. It's a good segue. The Finders. The FBI just - in 2019, they declassified hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of evidence and reports and interviews, of course it's redacted, but it's actually pretty lightly redacted regarding this. A lot has been inconclusive about this investigation, but I thought it was interesting. The Finders are a Washington DC-based commune. There was a federal investigation into allegations of Satan worship and child pornography. A lot of that was because of the Satanic Panic. But some of it was founded based on what was found there. In 1987, two well-dressed men, Douglas Ammerman and James Michael Howell were arrested in Tallahassee, Florida. They'd been reported because they were these two well-dressed men with these six kids that were aged two to 11, and they were feral, they were malnourished. They seemed like super neglected and covered in fleas.
The mothers were located and came to retrieve their kids in Tallahassee, one opted to stay, but it turned out that they were from this commune called the Finders, which seemed innocent enough. It was people opting to live an alternative lifestyle together. There was more of an investigation into it, but it was founded in the early 1970s by mirror Marion Petty. It's loosely based on the writings of Lao Tzu and pacifism. When the Metro police searched two properties that the Finders found or owned. Excuse me…
Krista: The Finders found!
Becca: The Finders! Finders? It’s what are you finding? What the fuck? They found documents, photos, computer equipment, and instructions for obtaining children for unspecified purposes. This included information about impregnating female commune members, you were talking about. Specifically like procuring children by obtaining female, commune - impregnating, female commune members and buying, trading, and kidnapping children.
They raided these two buildings and yeah, they found all this information on how to like get kids. And then a customs agent was asked to review the evidence in the case and he was told that it was a CIA internal matter. The CIA denies involvement.
Krista: Of course they do.
Becca: Some of the DHS and CPS were also involved because some of these like instructions for obtaining children included going through these authorities.
Krista: Foster parents and adoption and that sort of thing.
Becca: You've got this commune of people with instructions on like how to obtain kids for unspecified purposes. There were also - and this is an interesting thing - a lot of the photos of the kids were found and there were like naked pictures of kids. There was a picture of these kids slaughtering goats. They said it was a field trip. And then they get pictures of kids. They're, don't you take pictures of your kids when they're running around?
Krista: Not naked.
Becca: At a certain age. The kid, there's just like a kid crying, having to kill this goat and like…
Krista: It's, it's fun.
Carrie: Information on any estimates of how many kids are born off paper?
Krista: There is no numbers because…
Carrie: I would like to know, what I would like to find out from the FBI recovery numbers.
Okay. How many kids did we recover that didn't have any fucking papers? They need to start publishing those numbers. I couldn't find them. I mean, I can't even, even get one number that said, oh, we found five kids that didn't have papers, nothing.
Becca: Yeah, they're called the Missing Missing, and they're missing and also missing from documentation because they're born into high-control situations or born homeless, or, we got into it a little bit when we were talking about the Kingston's because they didn't get birth records for their kids until like a year into it, and sometimes they never did.
Carrie: Sometimes, yeah, they never did.
Becca: And then the kids are undocumented, it's a really tricky, it's really tricky for them to access help because they technically don't exist.
Krista: Marry your cousin.
Carrie: You can't get help for them because they don't exist people. If you called the law and you showed up with no paper, I mean, are they not gonna, you know and it’s not your fault that you didn't have papers if you show up at 15 at you know, police station.
Becca: Yeah. And again, control of papers controlled, and with kids, it is much easier to do this aspect of control where you like control their travel, documents, their documentation. Especially if you birth them, if you make them, then you completely control their touchpoints with documented society.
Krista: Yep. And you also normalize everything fucked up that you want to do to them.
Becca: Yeah. From a very early age, it's much easier to groom them if they don't know anything else.
Krista: And those kids don't go to school. Those kids don't go to the playground and play. They don't, they, they literally…
Becca: Well they did that one time, but those two guys got arrested for it.
Krista: Right. They don't yeah. It's, it's not pleasant. Having to be documented for them to track you is also sickening as well, but in a different way.
Becca: It's so easy to control someone from such a young age. Look up the FBI Vaults. The, the Finders, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of evidence. We could do a whole fucking episode on them. I was looking like, oh, I'm going to look up these records. There's 900 of them. it's fucking.
Carrie: You can't. Yeah.
Becca: Luckily there's not many words on each page and the print is pretty big, so it goes fast. But yeah.
Krista: That's crazy. And like, and I don't think anybody actually realizes how much the government, local authorities, CPS, doctors, foster homes, halfway houses, DHS even doctors, because then the doctors talk to the CPS and get kids taken away.
Becca: Because parents think they're sending their kids to do good stuff and then the parents are implicated and then there's that whole, oh my God, I did this to my child. What does that, you know? It's yeah…
Krista: Well no, and you take your kid to the doctor for a simple cold or something. And then the doctor reports it to CPS and then CPS comes into your house and takes your kid because you're neglecting them. And then that's, that's legal kidnapping, that's legal kidnapping. And then sometimes your kid goes missing and you can't find them. And you do everything that they want you to do, but they won't give them back. That's always my theory of, oh, you smoke weed and you're going to get your child taken away. Never see him again, but oh, you do crack? They're going to do everything in their power to give you your child back, even though you were selling your child to people for fucking crack.
Becca: Which is actually a pretty big…like it's a significant percentage of specifically young boys that get trafficked as well, being sold by their families. That too, like, oh yeah.
Krista: Oh, and don't forget, not only is, you know, possibly, you know, you're DARE teacher the one that grooms your child and then somehow CPS gets involved and they get taken away, and now they're just a lost boy.
Becca: Well, that brings us to the motherfucking Franklin Coverup. Some of the darkest shit I've ever heard.
Krista: And all of those were the lost kids. They were foster kids. They were children that their parents didn't give two shits about.
Becca: Meanwhile in Nebraska. So this came to light in 1990. Omaha's Lawrence E. King Jr. Franklin Community Credit Union manager had way too much money for his meager $16,200 annual salary. Like $70,000 Mercedes. He had a $10,000 a month limo habit. He owned a four-story house on 26 acres on the Missouri River.
Krista: He did crack.
Becca: He did, he threw these li- I don't know if he did crack.
Krista: But I think in one of the interviews, they talk about drug use being involved.
Becca: But yeah, he would throw these like extravagant parties for politicians - primarily GOP, but everyone really primarily GOP Nebraska.
Krista: You know what the party favors were guys? Want to know what the party favors were?
Becca: The afterparty favors?
Krista: It was probably during the goddamn party. Oh hey! The, the, the room on the right is yours. Do you know what those party favors were? Little boys, children, teenagers, impressionable people that are now fucked up or dead now.
Becca: Besides in 1998, he was charged with looting $38 million from the Franklin Community Credit Union that he ran. So they did an investigation into it. And what they found was - blew the fucking lid off of all of Nebraska. And then some. they found he was making [00:30:00] his money running a blackmail hustle, where he was involved in child prostitution and exploitation ring that catered specifically to the witch - rich and the witch, the rich and powerful notably those in the GOP. But yeah, he'd throw these lavish parties and it was kind of a way of being like, all right, like you're in the club now. Like, even if you didn't do the acts with the kids, you were like at the party where it happened and that's like blackmail enough in and of itself, right? Yeah. Half a dozen survivors reported they were brought to these parties and auction off like sex slaves, flown around the country for wild parties and given drugs and alcohol. They were minors. These allegations go so far as to recounting watching the creation of, and being forced to participate in snuff porn with other boys and teens.
One girl reported that when she was a teen, she was forced to sit naked at parties and men could do whatever they wanted to her except for penetrate her. Another girl said she witnessed a murder. Then on June 19th in June, 19th in 1988, a social worker at an Omaha mental hospital reported allegations of child abuse. Her patients started talking about their time with Mr. King and the Omaha Police and State Attorney General began, began investigating. This whole - so that the charges in 1998, you know, all around this, kind of several year, time thing there, look, he's got a lot of money. I wonder why he's got a lot of money. It's embezzlement. Oh my God. It got way worse. And the more you learn about the Franklin Coverup, the more it's like edit the worst was yet to come. And…
Carrie: And it was in Nebraska!
Krista: They used the private airport to transport children across state lines for this.
Becca: Yes.
Krista: Not only were people coming in, they were also taking them out and it was a private airport, a government private fucking airport.
Becca: He got, wow.
Krista: You, your tax dollars paid for that gas for that jet fuel.
Becca: For that snuff porn.
Krista: It becomes a normal Wednesday night because it's thrilling. It's so taboo for a reason, not try to justify any of it.
Becca: Like a delicacy, it’s terrible.
Krista: It's like eating monkey brains. Or we tell our kids instead of explaining or letting our kids see what it's like to be a like actual drug addict. We just tell them no, so then it becomes. Instead of explaining and showing why it's not, I mean, not that you should show why, you know, raping children is wrong. Don't show that. You should just know that that's not okay. But instead of, yeah, don't give, if you don't give an explanation as to why it's wrong and then you do it, it becomes thrilling, it becomes exciting. It becomes, it becomes they're addicted to it.
Carrie: The hidden part of it is why it's exciting. That's the titillation. That's part of the fantasy, part of the dissociation of it too. That's a different life.
Krista: Nope. And you know what? A lot of these people have young children at home.
Carrie: Oh yeah.
Krista: They have a significant other. They go home after they do those disgusting fucking things and go play catch with their kids, you know, have a barbecue, go lay down next to their wife or their, or their partner. Kiss them goodnight like nothing fucking happened.
Becca: Yeah. So when this came out, a lot of famous names attached to it were like, oh shit. That it was used, the kids were almost used as a hazing ritual. So like you're invited to the party. You're invited to the afterparty. Now you're in the club. Even if you didn't participate, you were at the party. It's go - and if you're going to fuck with us, you're going down with us. And then you're right. That escalates into Wednesday night.
It also helped king it keep up his charade with his credit union. 10 years before his charges, the National Credit Union Administration warned that the Franklin Credit Union was on shaky ground. His bank was about - his credit union was about to go under. And several members of Congress were, no, we gotta save Larry. And they wrote they wrote in support - and this is both Republicans and Democrats wrote in support of the credit union and in support of Laurence E. King's character. They, they pulled it together for him. We've got to help Larry out because, or else the parties are going to stop.
Carrie: Wednesday.
Krista: What about Wednesday, y'all?
Becca: It's not, it's just not a Wednesday without Larry. It did not end well for the survivors of Lawrence E. King. One of them who was one of King's favorites - he had given this young man, a 20 -, I guess, teen at the time, a $2,800 deerskin coat and a 14 karat gold bracelet.
This guy shot and killed himself. He was, this is terrible. And survivors had to relive their experiences. Then their testimonies were discounted, even though they passed a polygraph tests and - which were hot shit back in the day, you know, now it's like polygraph tests. But then it was a polygraph test. There were also technicalities. The five-year statute of limitations for sexual assault had expired. A lot of these allegations couldn’t be charged and you know, these guys were getting death threats. They were, the survivors were scared for their lives for coming forward.
Krista: Some gave up, gave their statements and then we're, yeah, nope, nope, nope. Never mind.
Becca: Cause they were scared. These are powerful people that they'd seen do terrible things. And they were legitimately scared.
Krista: Yeah. Cause they could be, they could be suicided. They could be, you know, if they could just disappear and nobody would ever know.
Becca: Yeah. And then there's powerful people with interests and covering up those investigations and, and yeah, I mean, that's, that's the scary part about these trafficking networks is the victims are so deeply trapped. In the case of the survivors of the Franklin Coverup they did try to come forward and nothing happened on a good day. Like if they were lucky, nothing happened. Just not, not good stuff happened for these, these victims.
Krista: They were the, the throwaway kids too. This is just so much out there.
Becca: Yeah. There's just, there's a lot. And those were just you know, and those aren’t recent things. Those were, I think, kind of kind of monumental incidents that were uncovered that kind of shed light on not just like the trafficking of children and teens in the US but the trafficking of boys and like males in the US and for use as blackmail, and using these kids to leverage people in power.
Carrie: I think it showed our culture the demand for it. I think that shocked it. I think that shocked our culture, the demand for it.
Becca: 50,000 to 100,000 fucking subscribers to the Delta Project newsletter. It was right down the open. It was going through the US Postal Service.
Krista: Your, your, their posts man was just straight up putting this postcard in there.
I mean, I know they're not supposed to look at my mail, but it was a postcard. It wasn't, and some of them weren't even in envelopes, it was like an auto-generated postcard.
Carrie: That's in case the postman looked at it and wanted to join.
Krista: No, you know, this is going to sound really fucked up and just, I always tell people, question everything. Just think in your lifetime, you are probably at any given time within feet of somebody that has just raped a child.
Becca: Shit, Krista!
Krista: I'm going to fuck everybody's day up with this one. I work at a restaurant during the, in my real life and I can guarantee you, I have probably served some fucked up people because people are really well at hide - really good at hiding things. I mean, the internet has made things a little, it has one made it easier to find what you need and also has made it easier to get found. There's that double-edged sword. They do go underground again, but they're everywhere and it, and it's not just one specific type of person either. It's the person that, you know, mows their lawn and has like the most beautiful lawn in the neighborhood and…
Becca: Like in True Detective with lawnmower man!
Krista: Who has the best candy on Halloween. And yeah. You know, just like the person that everybody loves in the neighborhood, you go to their house and he planned some weird ass shit.
Becca: Yeah. If you listen to the podcast, the Clown and the Candyman, it's really good, but there's an entire episode where they interview the cops that were tasked to trail John Wayne Gacy in the weeks leading up to his murder er, not his murder, not John - his arrest. And they said he was really freaking charming. And they were if you had met John Wayne Gacy, you would have liked him. And like, they decided to just survey him in the open. They had no idea there were all these bodies, right beneath their feet. But yeah, they went out to lunch with him and like, you know, at one point they were, John, we're sick of eating all this like fast food bullshit. Take us somewhere good. And just, you know, hanging out with John Wayne Gacy until they could arrest him.
Carrie: They say that our eyes are getting bigger. That in 10,000 years, they're going to be huge on our face. Okay. And more childlike. Anytime you look at a baby animal, it's cute.
It's fine. It's charming. Psychopaths like charming things. And the childlike thing that we're growing into is being done because of sexual adaptations, you guys. Researchers are talking about it. Yeah.
Krista: So we're going to be hunchbacked, weird goblin looking things with giant eyes. Everybody looks at their phone. I've seen the thing where they're like, because everybody is slumped over or looking at a screen or shoulders are going to shift and so will the angle of our spinal cord. We're going to be weird, hunchback goblin things with [00:40:00] giant eyes.
Becca: Everyone’s going to try to fuck us.
Carrie: And I didn't think about that. I didn't think about that. That's true. We could hunchback.
Krista: Like the scientific part about being attracted to young fertile, that's we are animals, break it down to every, we are animals. And what do animals do? Fuck. Eat. Sleep.
Carrie: And if it looks like it needs to be fertilized, what happens to it? It gets fucked.
Krista: Exactly. And what didn't trees do in the spring?
Becca: They fuck your face.
Krista: Well, there's that, but it's it's fertile time and it's they're young, sexy ass trees they're out there, just woo!!
Carrie: Let's talk about another reason why they're attracted to young boys. They're flat chested. Every other primate is flat-chested when it is fertile. Human women develop breasts at puberty so that people know not to rape us. We're already, we're already pregnant. We look pregnant. We're the only pregnant female primate on the planet from puberty to death. A boy with a flat chest looks like something that needs to be fertilized. That’s from bio anthropologist, Jonathan Marks.
Becca: Brutal, brutal truth.
Krista: It is.
Becca: Like my favorite looking boy from the catalog. If he tries to escape, I'll kill him. It's fine because we've got this network or, oh…
Krista: If you don't send him back, they know why.
Becca: Yeah. They're, oh, we lost Johnny. Cross him off the list. Find another, find another, a Odyssey Foundation boy.
Krista: If you look and there are those ones out there that don't care if it's a boy or girl, cause if you look at a young child anatomy-wise, besides genitalia, they look exactly the same. There's no difference. And if you cut it, if their hair is cut short or kept long, then there's really, unless their clothes are off, you don't know the difference.
Becca: It really messes with me that so many of these perpetrators are parents.
Krista: Yeah. That fucks with my head all the time.
Carrie: You guys heard about that forum in Britain that was shut down, right?
Becca: No.
Carrie: 50,000 members of this forum, it flipped back out in Britain. They had a thing where you would get married to have children, so you can have sex with them or trade them to have sex. They shut it down in Britain. I think it was like early 2000’s.
Becca: It's like a puppy sex mill.
Krista: They’re everywhere. It's terrifying as well, too, because there are the ones that do actually get to go to school and see what a normal life looks like for the most part. But at the same time, they also don't know that when everybody else goes home, they're not being brutally raped or sold to their neighbor or something like that.
Becca: Right. And they're getting groomed to, you know, say the right things, the wording or, you know, to…
Krista: Exactly. Our world is, but I want to throw in history, look at the Roman, look at the Greek. What does our government mimic? Their government?
Becca: This was a Wednesday. This has been a Wednesday for thousands of years.
Krista: There's was a power symbol. They didn't hide it. It was, oh, I have X amount of boys to my, you know, to my disposal. That was, that fucking looking at Caligula - weirdo. But I understand why he turned into a weirdo. His life was not pleasant. Okay.
Becca: I always get Caligula and Cathulu fucked up with the names, not with like who they are, but.
Carrie: But didn't Caligula have to fuck his uncle all the time.
Krista: Whoever was emperor at the time decided to bring him to this island, that it was pretty much murder island.
Becca: Pedophile Island!
Krista: Everybody knows the murder island. And then he was raped by him and groomed by him. They ended up raping people together and then all sorts of weird shit. Then he killed him and then became emperor then just went on a raping spree with his lead
Becca: Oh no!
Krista: His mental, his severe mental illness traumas, and then all the lead wine.
Becca: Oh god.
Carrie: Psychopathy allowed for it. They said one of the beautiful-ist flotillas on a lake ever just gorgeous, just beautiful.
Becca: Beautiful view. Beautiful view. Well, that’s you know – pre-North Fox island, pre Jeff Epstein with his weird palace island, they always been going to freaking islands.
Krista: Just like cults. You go to an island. No, one's gonna fuck with you.
Carrie: No, one's going to hear you scream on an island, no, one's gonna be able to come get you either, kay.
Krista: Especially if you own it.
Becca: That's when Cthulhu shows up or Nessie shows up, hop on my back!
Carrie: I bet those poor kids wish Cthulhu would show up and say, hop on their back. They would go, poor kids.
Becca: I'll take my chances with the sleeper in the deep. He woke up to save me. I hope he knows I can't breathe under water.
Carrie: That's so sad.
Becca: Y'all definitely it check out our links in the show notes and there's a lot of resources on how to support victims of human trafficking and how to support the people that support the victims of human trafficking and just to learn more about it. And you know, just to keep…
Carrie: A lot of people are really passionate about getting rid of it, it's time stop. We don't have to make everybody slaves anymore to anything. It's time to grow up.
Becca: Yeah. And so again, we'll be back on next week with our second part where we travel the world in search of human trafficking particularly of little boys. It gets really dark when little boys get involved because they do - people do terrible things to little boys, like really, really, really terrible things. And you know, we gotta talk about it because it's happening and it's something that doesn't get spoken about and we need to bring light to it.
Carrie: Circling back to the Boys Scouts, Becca, what is your opinion about what they should do with the organization going forward? Do you think that they should continue, or do you think that they should shut it down and reorganize and call it something completely else or whatever?
Becca: I don't know. I mean, if I were them, I'd probably want to rebrand because like, man, those pedophiles were really messed it up for the Boy Scouts. I swear. I mean it's but. You know, it was interesting. I've been up hearing, you know, some stuff about how like you know, cultures really do. You need a coming-of-age ritual and like really do you need you know, ways of teaching leadership skills to children. Organizations like that, especially ones that have an initiation are helpful because it shows kids when it's, all right, now you have, you are welcomed into this society. Now you've got like independence. You've got like a say, you know? Organizations that can be really helpful in like, you know, teaching the tools that like prepare them for this like initiation and to being an adult in the society that they're a part of. But that's what makes all the abuse so much worse because it it's, it's disempowering when it's supposed to be empowering. Instead of initiating them into something that empowers them, it's initiating into, well, you can expect to be abused by people in power for your entire life. And that’s awful and that needs to change.
Krista: So, well then how do you ever learn to say no to people that treat you shit or how to accept people being nice to you? Because you always think that they're going to have an
alternative motive behind them being nice to you. Then you ended up in weird situations where it's all, oh, you did this for me? Here's my butthole. Yeah, I know it's not funny, but…
Becca: Like, you bought me coffee!
Krista: You bought me coffee. Do you want a blow job? No…here's, here's a cup of coffee.
Becca: Yeah. And a lot of the, there was a, there was an article in Psychology Today about the psychologist that we're working with group therapy with homeless male populations and just how shocked they were by how many of them were living out trauma from being trafficked as young men and teens. How this manifests itself, all kinds of stuff associated with complex PTSD, like so it does follow you for your whole life. Then they end up in these situations where they're, you know, have drug problems, alcohol problems, chronic homelessness mental illness that's brought on by the trauma.
Krista: Yeah. It never goes away.
Becca: They don't learn that they don't have to accept abuse to survive. I think a big part of the retraining is a lot of these people don't ever learn how to live in non-chaotic circumstances. When they get into stability, they lose their shit because they're adapted to the chaos, they know how to survive in the chaos. They do need the extra support and counseling to learn how to cope with the stable life, and if they don't get it - I think it, it's become more clear that people have to learn how to adapt to good situations if they're used to bed situations.
Krista: Yeah. Because that's not their normal. Their body is now, is always in a constant state of fight or flight. And it's, and the other thing that's really hard is when sex sells everything and if you were already viewed as a sexual object that it's okay, well I need X, Y, and Z. I'll just do this because it's easy. I don't care what they do to me because I've had worse done to me and I'll get my needs met.
Carrie: You mentioned fight or flight. You and I had that discussion about freeze one time.
Becca: Okay.
Carrie: So what is flight again?
Becca: That’s the sympathetic nervous system.
Carrie: What is the freeze?
Becca: Dorsal vagal, that's play dead. Fight or flight is parasympathetic* nervous system freezes, dorsal vagal. When you've been through a lot and you just can't fucking move.
Krista: You just can't process anything.
Carrie: That's what a lot of people choose to do.
Krista: Then you end up with dissociative disorder because your brain has chose to fracture so many times or just stop at a certain age.
Becca: I know, and it's weird because the, the complex PTSD shows up in weird ways. I was just having a conversation with my in-laws and my husband about this like construction project we're going to do and I started just crying [00:50:00] and I'm, it's okay. I just cry a lot. My threshold, it's really weird. It's really weird. I think you know, it is kind of, it is, it is one of those weird trauma responses where if there's a sound that - heavy breathing sometimes puts me on edge and my fight, fight or flight kicks in and I have to force myself to not run away from it.
Carrie: I think a lot of people are scared of heavy breathing, you guys, I am too a little bit.
Becca: Someone's about to either kick my ass or it's so weird. It's so weird. Someone's upset, close by. I must flee. I have to say that. Those like weird subcortical responses where like, you'd dissociate, sometimes it feels like you're standing next to yourself and like, kind of you're, you're not watching yourself, but you're feeling like you're watching yourself, something’s like I got this, I got the, I got this until…
Krista: Like, I'll handle the physical part of this. You don't have to feel this.
Becca: Yeah. And that, you know, again, that a lot of that, that makes it harder to get out of these situations or recognize when you're in these situations if it's all that you know, or…there's just a lot of compounding factors. Like, you know, people are trapped by circumstance, they're trapped by their, their programming as a response to that circumstance.
When you get out, there's a lot of different aspects that need to be addressed and if you don't have access to those resources, that can be really hard to function.
Carrie: Reminds me of the elephant that's tied to the ground by a rope. He could get out of that rope easy, but we trained him on a chain so he thinks he can't get free, but he can.
Becca: Well, you guys can get free and…
Krista: It can happen. It's a long road, but when you do get there and you feel well enough to speak about it, speak about it so more people know.
Carrie: It's for your own health, it's for your own good. You can live a life. You can be healthy again. You can be happy. You can help others. We need people to help others that have been in this so that people that know what's going on can talk about it. Cause everybody else talking about it only, we only get like a little touch. We need it. We need all of it.
Krista: Expose those people. Don't hide. Don't hide them.
Becca: Do you not protect them, they do not deserve it.
Krista: No, I don't care how much money they have.
Carrie: We don't care.
Krista: I know that it's scary when people do have a lot of money and they threaten you. I get it. If you have that opportunity, even if you have to do it anonymously, fucking let, let it out.
Becca: You do not owe anything to them, you do not owe anything to them. One of the tactics is tricking you into thinking you owe debts to you them, and you don't owe them shit.
Carrie: They owe you. They owe you.
Becca: CrimeJuicy said so!
Carrie: You get out. If you need help, there's more of us than them and we'll do a GoFundMe or something. We don't care. Okay.
Becca: Call up, what is it? Bikers Against Child Abuse and get him to do a drive-by?
Carrie: It'll happen.
Becca: Drive-by vroom.
Krista: Yeah, just, it's awful out there guys.
Carrie: And it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be. Yeah.
Becca: Oh, the human trafficking episodes are always so hard.
Krista: Well, you know, there's, there's enough plastic surgery and all of that stuff for people to look younger. And that's fine. Like if you're into people that look young, that's fine, but make sure that they're of age.
Becca: Just look at anime. Fuck.
Carrie: I have a problem with the hent…
Krista: The hentai stuff like that.
Carrie: Yeah, because it's telling you to go screw kids. I mean, and it's making it Wednesday night shit.
Krista: Yeah. There's all sorts…
Carrie: It's, James, you are turning that off here. No more. No wonder my kid’s so fucked up. I thought it was cartoons. It's not cartoons. You gotta watch what your kids are watching on the anime.
Becca: Tentacle porn!
Carrie: I was what is this shit? Oh, that's the whole plot line? How many episodes? 300. I don't know. He was so grounded for not telling me about it. He was so grounded. I grounded the shit out of him for that.
Krista: Put on Cowboy Bebop and try again, and…
Carrie: I, if you're an adult, that's fine. You've already got your sexuality centered, you already know what you are. You know what I mean? That's okay. Watch whatever you want. But when you're a kid and you're telling them to have sex with brothers and sisters, that's not what they need. They just need to be kids. I just want kids to be kids.
Becca: Can we name this episode Human Trafficking Wednesday Night?
Carrie: That's so bad. Yes, just another Wednesday night!
Krista: Just because…
Carrie: It's a special, it's a special.
Krista: It's a special for boys.
Becca: We gotta look out for our boys.
Krista: Yeah. How do you, how do you expect them to do better if we're not going to do better for them?
Carrie: Me and Krista have boys, Becca has got - an adopted couple boys.
Krista: Just be aware of the things that are going on, look into, make sure you like, look at the signs, like research the signs of trafficking and also signs of sexual abuse, because it comes out in so many different ways. It just doesn't come out in aggression. Sometimes it comes out with them completely shutting down and kids and kids speak to you without speaking to you. Just, just watch, pay attention. Yep.
Becca: We'll see you next week for more, um, terrible…
Krista: We’re to go internationally.
Becca: We're going across the ocean. We're about to check out this one guy that the Philippines almost brought the death penalty back for, just to kill him for the shit that he's done, but they didn't.
Krista: They should though. They should do to him what he did in just that one video. He made multiple.
Becca: It was terrible. Yeah. Hold your boys close. Look out for signs of human trafficking. Believe boys when they tell you that they're being abused.
Krista: Don't shame them. Don't tell them that. Oh no. Now you're gay, because that happens, unfortunately. You were a victim of sexual assault now you’re…
Becca: How does that even work? If you have a bad feeling there's private investigators that can run background checks
Krista: And you'd be surprised how much of a trail, the internet leaves.
*Correction: sympathetic nervous system
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