Sgt. Betsy "Tactical Grandma" Brantner Smith; Undercover Cop, Sergeant, & Television Reality Star. (Part Two)

Welcome everyone to the conclusion of my interview with Naperville Police Department Retired Police Sergeant and now Spokesperson for the National Police Association, Betsy Brantner Smith. 

Last week, we learned about Betsy’s journey from growing up in a small town on a farm to making it to a big-city police department and all the unthinkable harassment and bullying she endured from within her own agency. 

This week, we learn about her work as an undercover cop involved in high-stakes takedowns in and around the Chicagoland area. When she walked away from that work, she went back to her agency and was promoted to sergeant, and the rest of her incredible 29 years in law enforcement. We even talk about a certain serial killer cop with whom she was forced to be partners and briefly interacted socially.  

Please enjoy this sometimes shocking, fascinating, and genuine interview. 

 In today’s episode, we discuss:

·      Being an undercover cop with almost no backup or training. 

· High-stakes narcotics investigations and almost getting her cover blown. 

·      Betsy’s ability to think on her feet and improvise during super-dangerous undercover situations.

·      Leaving a Chicagoland area drug Taskforce. 

·      Being a sergeant in charge of the K9 unit.

·      Turning down a promotion to lieutenant.

·      From 1999 to 2003, Betsy hosted various training programs and was a content expert for the Law Enforcement Television Network (LETN), is currently an on-air commentator and advisor for the Police One Academy. 

·      Being the focus of a police television reality show. Female Forces. 

·      Working with and socializing with wife-killer cop Drew Peterson.

·      What she sees cops doing right and wrong today.

·      What is the National Police Association, and your role with them?

 All of this and more on today’s episode of the Cops and Writers podcast.

Head on over to the National Police Association website.

Head on over to my website to learn more about me and my books!

Check out my newest book! Police Stories: The Rookie Years - True Crime, Chaos & Life as a Big City Cop!

What's the craziest thing you saw when you were a cop?

My first week on the job, a guy running at me with a butcher knife. He'd just killed his brother over the last hot dog.

That's chapter 1. There are 33 more.

Police Stories: The Rookie Years just launched - available on Amazon. 

Search 'Police Stories Patrick O'Donnell' or click th

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Uh uh, I met a guy at work, he's pretty cool, you know. I think I made a friend at my new job. Oh his name's Drew Peterson, and he's a sergeant. Oh great. So being the good wife that I am, we socialize with Drew. Oh god, and his wife. His wife and I are pregnant at the same time. It was the one um, the one that he killed in the yeah, it was the one he killed in the bathtub, allegedly killed in the bathtub.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

That was the third wife, I think, is the one that he killed in the bathtub.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Yes, the third wife.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

So uh, you know, so and I he was as big of a scumbag then as he was fairly quickly after that. I got not because of Drew Peterson, but I got divorced.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

And uh, and then that's when the whole Stacy disappears, Stacy's from Naperville, Illinois.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

That's his Welcome to the Cops and Riders Podcast. Your host, Sergeant Patrick O'Donnell, worked the streets in one of the nation's largest police departments for over 25 years. Ride along with O'Donnell and his expert guests as they help you navigate the oftentimes confusing and misunderstood world of law enforcement. O'Donnell and his guests on this show do not represent any law enforcement agency. The content of this show is not meant to be legal advice. We think you need a lawyer, you probably do.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Hey, Cops and Writers, thanks for being here with us today for another episode of the Cops and Writers Podcast. I'm Patrick O'Donnell and I'll be your host for today's show. This show is listener supported, so thanks to all of you who keep the show going. I would especially like to thank those of you who are patrons of the show. Your generosity helps pay for the software, equipment, and my time producing this show. Yes, you too can become a patron for less than a cup of coffee or a pint of Guinness. Just go over on to patreon.com forward slash cops and writers. Welcome everyone to the conclusion of my interview with Naperville Police Department retired police sergeant and now spokesperson for the National Police Association, Betsy Brantner Smith. Last week we learned about Betsy's journey from growing up in a small town on a farm to making it to a big city police department and all the unthinkable harassment and bullying she endured from within her own agency. This week we learned about her work as an undercover cop involved in high-stakes take takedowns in and around the Chicago Chicagoland area. When she walked away from that work, she went back to her agency and promoted to sergeant, and the rest of her incredible 29 years in law enforcement. We even talk about a certain silly serial killer cop with whom she was forced to be partners with and briefly interacted with socially. Please enjoy this sometimes shocking, fascinating, and genuine interview with Betsy Brantner Smith.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Now again, I was just barely off probation. Wow. Okay. And uh and you barely know how to be a cop. Yeah, exactly. You're exactly right. And uh, and but he was like, I'm gonna uh he be obviously became a good friend. Yeah, and his daughter became a cop. I mentored her into becoming a phenomenal police officer, and uh uh, but uh he said, we're gonna get you away from this hot mess for now until you know we can figure all this out. And so yeah, and that you know, that was a real turning point in my career. I got mentored by some uh awesome folks, and uh, and I got very quickly got sent to a ta a countywide task force, and I got sent to a statewide task force because I had a a uh an inexplicable talent to buy drugs. And uh yeah, so justice history.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Were there any other females on um the Naperville Police Department?

SPEAKER_03 3:53

There were there were the one that had gotten fired, there were two more there, but they had both first they both got injured, both uh quit, um you know, into their you know, before they retired. Um, but uh they had both gotten injured. Uh one actually became a manager with our city, terrific. The other woman, they're both friends of mine. One's a really good friend. She she mentored me. But they both kind of found niches.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

You know, where you could kind of get people to leave you alone.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

And that and that, you know, I had a big mouth. So um, you know, and I I spoke up and you know, uh again, I was not insubordinate, but right, you know, I uh I you know I I was I was smart and uh and I was talented. I'm gonna just you know, I learned I was taught not to brag, but I was a talented police officer.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

And uh this was what 1983, 1984?

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah, this is yeah, I became uh it was it was uh yeah, yeah, 1982, 83, 83. Okay, and uh and then I went to this task for, you know, became a detective. Then at 85 I went to the task force, and so I was gone for four years. And so we got new, you know, uh things changed and we had this influx of new recruits, and they I was out of their hair, yeah, and then I'm getting national awards, and I'm you know, the the the director of the state police and the sheriff in the county is calling my chief, going, I man, this girl's the dope buying son of a bitch, you know. And uh and so they're like, Oh yeah, Betsy, we love her, we love her. Betsy's the best. Yeah, we taught her all that stuff, they didn't teach me a thing about being undercover or any of that, but all of a sudden, you know, I go from being the goat to being the golden girl. Oh, and I just it's extraordinary, so interesting times.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Just to back up a little bit, I I like to back up every now and then. But what's the equipment hanging on your belt when you're a brand new cop in Palatine, Illinois? At Naperville, but I keep on saying Palatine, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Tiny little town, uh, but uh um no, it uh so I had a uh Smith Weston Model 59 uh handgun. Uh uh by the way, a Model 59 with a double stack magazine. I I have the hands of a third grade child. Um and uh uh that gun, by the way, after I was riding for police one, I did a bunch of research on the Navy SEALs, rejected it because it was too difficult to handle. So my chief bought a hundred of them um and uh made us carry them. And uh so anyway, that um we had I had a a nightstick, a police radio that uh doubled as a weapon because it was like you know, that it was ginormous, um, handcuffs and uh a couple magazines. Wow, and and I had sap gloves.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

You had sap gloves? Wow. For the kids at home who don't know what that is. That's why don't you explain what those are?

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Uh it's a leather glove that uh the knuckles and the fingers and the palm have lead in them. And uh they encouraged us to. I don't I again I don't I'm guessing we didn't have a policy, but some guys carried saps, some people had sap gloves. I actually never used mine because um they were uh they were they're too big. I couldn't I couldn't handle my firearm with sap gloves on. So yeah, but I did have them.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Those saps in the old days, the uniform pants had like a little pocket for your sap.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And then we carried a ride stick, a ride helmet, yeah, um, all that stuff. But that was it. Wow, which is good because I had like a 23-inch waist. I didn't have room for anything more.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

See, that's the thing, you know. It's like every day I see like cops with new more stuff on their person. I'm like, you're gonna run out of room, you're gonna run out of room.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Yeah, I've I've done a lot of riding on that where you you really have to set up a gun belt for function, not you know how much crap can we put on it, and that's what it's boiled down to.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

I mean, yeah, I know, and this is off topic, and you know, I'm not a fan of the exterior vests at all, yeah. Because now you have cops trying to be navy SEALs, you're not a freaking navy seal.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

But see, when you're a cop my size, you you can only carry so many things, and we've had we've had three police officers in this country murdered because they uh they had too much on their gun belt and their uh collapsible baton was behind their firearm without enough keeper room, and they couldn't rock and with those rock out holsters that they used to have, yeah. Um, you they couldn't get out their guns, they got killed.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

Oh god, oh that's horrible. But yeah, it it's gotten kind of silly, I think. But you know, that's another topic for another day.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yeah, yeah, it's a whole yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

So, you know, in your career, you know, you went for you went to detectives and then you went to a task force. Which which departments were you task forced with, and what was your geography? Where were you working?

SPEAKER_03 9:08

So the first for the first two years was all of DuPage County, part of Will County. Um, and then we did work into Cook County, and uh, and then the second two years we formed a new they is they had something in Illinois called the Metropolitan Enforcement Group Task Force, um, that the state police ran. So then I'm I'm in multiple different counties and and going in different cities. And obviously, you didn't, you know, I I again I'm the only female. Okay. Um, so I I got loaned out a lot. So I was doing I worked in three different states. I did a lot of work with the DEA, did a lot of work in Chicago. Um, because the the DEA in Chicago did not have a female that could go undercover. They were all surveillance-based. So I I could go in anywhere and buy drugs from anyone from uh uh uh 10th grade math class to uh discothex and everything in between. Um I was buying dope, including from dirty cops.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Wow. Now, did you have to get deputized as like a sheriff's deputy in that area so as far as um your jurisdiction you know allows? Um how do they go work around that?

SPEAKER_03 10:27

For the state police task force, we were we were you know deputized, if you will, as state uh troopers. Um for the sheriff's department task force, they ran it under mutual aid laws.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Oh, okay. Yeah, because I mean with Haida, yeah. I know some I work with some guys over in Hyda. It's the 80s, baby.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah, it's the rules were sort of suggestions, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

You know, they they're getting uh deputized as U.S. Marshals, so they could go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah, you know, then now and that you know that was an issue because in the for in the county task force we would be um uh because we did a lot of like cold buys, you know, we'd go into a bar and meet, you know, some Joe, and uh and he's like, Oh yeah, I can sell you an eight ball of cocaine, you know, follow me. And we'd my partner and I, or just me, get out, go get our car and follow them. And a lot of times they'd be crossing county lines. So we were going up into four counties. Uh well, actually, more than that. You know, we could from where we were in DuPage County, we could go anywhere from Cook to Kane to Will. I mean, that doesn't mean anything to anybody, but just all the counties surrounding us.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Wow, yeah, you covered a lot of area then.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah, and it was difficult because then you've got to, you know, I I buy an eight-ball of cocaine in Cook County, Illinois. Well, now we've got to get a warrant in Cook County, Illinois. You got to deal with, you know, all that. So that was I learned, and and this is the thing. Uh again, I learned a lot doing that about prosecution, preparing a case, testimony in court, report writing, things that I would not have learned had I just been a Naperville police officer.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Yeah, that what a what an education. It was amazing. Yeah, it is. So, what kind of training did they give you to be an undercover officer?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Not one hour of training did I attend.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

So they say, hey, there was no wear jeans and a t-shirt tomorrow at work.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

It was, and again, I'm a female. So, you know, there was a whole, and I of course I'm working with all men and working for all men. I had a you know, my the guy that ran our task force is a great mentor. Um, and uh uh, you know, but um, you know, they didn't they weren't prepared, and neither were I for what I was going to face when I, you know, they dropped me off at a bar, go in and buy a coat, kid. Okay, I'm from a tiny town in Illinois, and and and I'll be honest with you, by the time I became a police officer, and even by the time I got to this task force, I'm still equating heroin and marijuana as all the same because I was raised that drugs are bad and you should not do drugs. So it's all the same to me. And so I'm going into these just shithead biker, nasty bars, just and uh with like five hundred dollars in my pocket, and uh that's it. No cell phone, no wire, none of that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Oh, so none of this is being none of this is being recorded, any of the buys.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Oh, no, no, no. And you know, I would have one guy maybe uh surveilling me inside, a couple outside, you know, that's it. So I'm going in, you know, they hand, you know, you get the money, you record, you go in, and I'm literally sitting at the bar ordering a beer, you know. May do you have any cannabis sativa that I could purchase? I have money.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I would really like a marijuana cigarette, please.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I I would like to get high, please. What do you have, Mr. Bartender?

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

And so um I we weren't prepared for, you know, what I mean. What do you think's happening? Sure, baby. You know, they they'd hand me uh cocaine used to come in little envelopes and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

I mean, you know, I'm you talking powder or are you talking crack?

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Uh we're talking well, powder and crack. It was powder cocaine for the white chick. And uh so they'd hand you their little, you know, uh what what were those? I don't even remember. We called them some anyways, little envelope. Oh, corner cut. You'd go, we they called it something. Yeah, that's how I learned the metric system. Um, but uh anyway, they'd they'd send you in, you know, and I this guy's like, I'm not gonna sell you any baby, but you can go snore to line, you know. And so, you know, I take the little envelope, run into the bathroom, tap a little into a plastic evidence envelope. Oh my gosh, you know, and then you know, write it all up, stick it in my pocket, give him his cocaine back while I'm doing this. And again, I had never done cocaine, I didn't really know other than what I saw like on TV a little bit. Right. So I'd come out, you know, doing this or whatever, and uh and um yeah, and hand it back to him, and then I'm like, you know, so I have to try and identify this person. Well, of course, what does he want? He wants to have sex with me.

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Yeah, everyone wants to have sex with me. And oh, you don't have to pay for this, but you'll pay for it in another way.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

And this this was the thing, and so I had no training in this, so I just again, I just I should have been a theater kid because I'd talk about I started talking about my boyfriend and oh, my old man will kick my ass if I you know do this, and if I don't come home with something, I my biggest best line to get people to sell me shit was to tell them if I don't come home with an eight-ball cocaine, my old man's gonna kick the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

And so so when did when did like the bus team come in and arrest this person?

SPEAKER_03 16:44

We would do three buys and arrest. Okay, so we do we do three separate buys, document it all, try and identify them through vehicles, license plates, you know, everything from I learned I got a had a very good memory. Um, you know, and I'd say stuff like, you know, are you know are you a Capricorn? You know, you you act like a Libra. Are you a Capricorn? Yeah, I'm a Capricorn. Well, you really act like a Libra. I don't believe you're a Capricorn. When's your birthday? I don't believe that's your birthday. Show me your license. When's your birthday? I don't, I'm an Aries, you know. And of course, we had fake driver's licenses and fake, you know, all that stuff. But so then you know, they he'd show me his driver's license, and I'd have to memorize that. There was no cell phone, there was no right.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

It's a dark bar, and you know, and they're not gonna let you look at your that driver's license for like 15 minutes, and y'all you're gonna grind set it.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah, no, so anyway, that was yeah, wow, that was fun, it's fun four years.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

So you're doing that, yeah. I've got mixed feelings on that, you know. Describing, you know, knowing who you are now, and you describing yourself when you were a little younger, you know, it's like, okay, in police world USA right now, if there's a good looking woman that's in her like early 20s, they want to pluck her right away and put her in UC work because she doesn't look like a cop.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

You know, it's like it's frankly, it's dangerous. I I I'm fortunate that I was very grounded morally, right? Um, because a lot of undercover cops in general, men men and women, get uh uh they kind of go a little bit to the dark side or they become alcoholics or oh, there's a lot of that crap going on. I fortunate I was very grounded and at the end of those four years in the task force. Now again, I graduated from buying coke and bars to to uh you know buying kilos and stuff, and um but after four years, I asked to go back um to patrol. I asked to go back to the agency because nobody knew me in my agency. We'd had this explosive growth. Nobody I would walk in the door to get my paycheck, and people were stopping me at the door. And I was like, I I think I need to go back. And um, there was a sergeant's test coming up, and I thought I should prepare for that. So I actually asked to go back. I could see the danger. I wrote about this later on about the the dangers of staying undercover uh too long.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Right. I don't think you should be there for an extended period of time. I think if the opportunity is there, you should take it. That's just one I mean, I believe that you know, okay, you start as a cop, you know, on the street, learn the job first. That's first and foremost. Learn how to become a cop, and it takes years. I think it's three to four years easily, easily before you're like comfortable in your own skin. And I've seen this in my department where it's like, oh, you're a good-looking girl. I'm gonna take you right out of the academy or right off of field training. Yeah, and they're undercover or they're in a specialty unit for like 10 years, then they take the sergeant's exam. Now they're leading you know cops on the street and they have zero clue how they patrolled for a they patrolled for a year, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yeah, no, it was not it was not ideal. And I I saw that okay, and so I I remedied it myself.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

That's that takes a lot of fortitude because it was people were like, You're stupid, and I'm like, no, no, I can I can think I think in the long run, it again it makes you so much better of a cop. Oh, yeah, if you do that. It that makes total sense to me. That's super, super smart. But you know, you're doing this UC work and all that. Can you tell us like one of the most sticky situations you were um caught up in as a UC or otherwise if you wanted to?

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Oh, sure. I mean, I was when I was on the I think it was the state police task force. I I we were working with another, yeah, it was. We were working with another uh we were working with a unit in Cook County, and um there was a woman that they targeted who was dealing large amounts of cocaine, and she worked for our Secretary of State's office and that in Illinois. That's where you get your driver's licenses from. Wow. So she was a big up, she was in the upper echelons of our secretary of state's office. If you're from Illinois, none of this surprises you. And um not at all. And uh, so anyway, we we got into her son, her adult son, then we got into her, and um, and I was doing it with a a partner, a black guy from this other task force. Now, again, this is 86, 87, yeah, no, 87, 88, something like that. Yeah, 87, 88. Um, and uh, and so uh we were on our uh we were buying a a large amount, it was like a couple kilos of cocaine, that was a large amount in Illinois. And uh what we were gonna do is a big buy bus situation. And um so as we're in days before the operation, they're setting up, it's it was you know gonna be a big hoo-ah because it was gonna be politically dicey, you know, it was gonna make the media, and we were gonna we were at that time intending to seize like cars and her condo and all this stuff. Oh, sure, that's huge. We had the IRS involved and the DEA involved, it was a big deal. And uh, and so here I am. This little, I'm still this little farm girl. And um, so they told us a couple of days before that they believed that we had been compromised, my partner and I. That because she worked for the we got our fake driver's licenses from the Secretary of State.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Oh, we had like our

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Our whole fake identity was based on these driver's licenses from the state.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

And that she had gotten on to this through uh the you know some various means. And uh, and so they said, you know, it's we can just arrest her on you know what we have. It was a couple eight balls of coke and stuff like that. Um, and my partner and I sat down and we talked, and we weren't any great friends or anything. We didn't particularly know each other other than these task forces working together. And uh we said, what do you want to do? You know, and and I was like, Let's do it. This is this isn't be a big deal, let's finish it out. So, long story short, we go, we're gonna go to her condo, do this deal. Uh, we had uh no wires but panic buttons that looked like pagers.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

And you know, we'd hit our panic button once we got enough of what we were gonna we needed to get, and the teams would come in. So uh we go in and I remember walking down the hallway of this condo, and I remember thinking, I hope that now I'd been undercover for a couple of years by now. I I remember thinking, I hope my mom had died. I hope my dad knows to bury me in my uniform. I want to be buried in my uniform because I'd been undercover not wearing uniform. Yeah, and so I was that was my focus. I was like, I really hope my dad knows to bury me in my uniform. So we go, we go in, and they immediately grab him and throw him against the wall, and they're taking all his clothes off. They're gonna strip him down for a wire, see if he's wired, yeah. And all this stuff, and they're I mean, they're swearing and shouting and keep punching him, and I'm like, man, and I'm I'm getting ready to to hit my panic button, and uh, and they you know, they got guns. I got no gun, I got nothing. Yeah, and uh, and so I look at the this woman who would be about you know uh 10 years older than me or so, maybe 20. I don't know, you know, kind of a maternal looking lady, yeah. And I look right at her and I start crying, and she goes, What's wrong with you? And I go, That son of a bitch, I just found out he's cheating on me and blah blah blah, and you know, it was and I just told her this whole story. She pulls me into the kitchen and and she's a white girl. He's consoling me and she's consoling me, and she's going, Is he cheating on you with a black girl? Yes, you know, he said white girls aren't good enough, blah blah blah. I think she was Italian, yeah. She goes, and I he's kicking me out. I got nothing, I'm broke. She's oh honey, she goes, We're gonna take care of you, that son of a bitch. And I can hear what's happening where it ain't good, and uh, and so I go, but I've got I oh the only money I have is this money for our deal, yeah. And she goes, Well, we're gonna do the deal right now. Oh goes and gets the kilos of coke, gives it to me. She goes, You're gonna go out the back door, honey, and you're gonna get on with your life, baby, you know, and all this. Oh, thank you. I love him hugging her, you know. I take my cocaine, I hit the panic button, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

That is hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Here's my partner in his underwear going his ass getting this, but and I mean it was a big damn deal, and uh, but I mean, I had no idea and I had no idea what to do, so I was like, I'm gonna play the woman thing, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Oh my god, that's hilarious! So you get out of UC work, yeah. Eventually you test and you become a sergeant. How long did that take you into your career to become a sergeant?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

I took the uh I became a field training officer after I went back, and then uh I have to think about this, and then in I I trained almost for two years straight. Um, because again, with that explosive growth, I had a recruit with me by my poor last recruit. Thank God he was an army uh MP because I was just brain dead by the time I got to him. And uh great guy. And uh um anyway, I took the test. So it uh I think I I think I got promoted in '91, I think. Okay. And uh um, so at that point, you know, it was we had a lot of women on our agency, a lot of there was a lot of movement.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

And um, yeah, became became a sergeant. I was a patrol sergeant uh for a few years and uh for uh a couple of years, and I ran, I also ran and you know, the honor guard and and uh um animal control and canine and all that. Speaking of canine, here's oh see, I got clear. My sweet baby. I know. See, I have two Chihuahua mixes.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Oh, yeah, that's he's a rescue from Texas.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Yeah, that's what we I've got two desert rats, we call him. My little I love it. Yes, um, so and I kicked them out because they're pests. Um but they came to me and they said, Hey, we want you to take over crime prevention. I'm like, I I don't think so. Uh I'm a cop, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:35

And uh you're gonna be doing McGruff stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

No, I don't want to talk to kids, and I don't want to be the one you gotta sign up the who signs out the McGruff suit, you're right, and uh and all that. And we had a big crime prevention unit, but um uh you know, you know, it's not it doesn't say Betsy's police department on that path.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Yeah, it does not.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Um, so I got you will put in for crime prevention, and lo and behold, I got it. And uh I you know I did that for I think seven years, and I had a staff of 11. It was a it was phenomenal assignment.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

Okay, that's a big crime prevention.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Uh yeah, it was huge, and you know, because again, we were exploding, community policing, million schools, you know, all this stuff, and uh we had the DARE program and all that. We had a crib to death, you know. I we're running the senior stuff and the dare stuff and the preschool stuff and safety town and all that. But in the summers, we had we have a big entertainment district, and in the summers we patrolled that on bikes.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Oh, oh, you're a bike cop, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

I and I ran our crowd control bike team, all that stuff because we would have the the reclaim the streets people, the anarchists would come every summer and all that, and uh, and so uh um yeah, so I did that, so it was phenomenal. And I mean it was kind of like we got on all our aggression in the summer arresting people, and then we'd go back and be the nice police for the you know school year.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

No, I was looking at some of your stuff. You were you in charge of the canine unit, or you were a sergeant in the can?

SPEAKER_03 29:07

I was that's like I ran I ran the unit. I did not have I had a personal dog, I did not have a work dog, but I ran the unit.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

I was just gonna say that that's like a dream job. That's a that's a dream come true, is to be a canine sergeant or to have a yeah, it was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

I loved it, I loved it. It was it was uh, you know, and I got to go to all the training with my guys and really I'm a big dog person, I always have been.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Me too.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

And uh so just immersing myself in understanding the training and um getting into writing policy and doing national stuff, you know, and it so by this point I'm I have a a a parallel career as a national uh I I've got a show on the law enforcement television network. I'm I'm a national level trainer, uh, and then I become a national level author. Um all you know, as a like I I have two separate careers.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Oh wow, okay. So and I I have to say that sergeant is the best rank on this department.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yeah, I turned down, I took the lieutenant's test, turned it down.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Oh, I'm sure they're pleased with that.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Oh, yeah, gosh, it was really weird because I turned on uh lieutenant and um I became a patrol sergeant again, which they said was a complete coincidence.

SPEAKER_04 30:24

Yes, of course it is. So you were on a reality show for a little while. Tell us about your reality show.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

So during the end of my police career, my last six years, I'm a patrol sergeant, and uh at this time I am uh I'm I'm writing for every police website there is, every magazine. I'm on the advisory board for police marks and magazine. Um, and then I get a I get hired by Caliber Press and the Street Survival Seminar. I'm the only woman to ever teach the Street Survival Seminar.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Um, all that. I I'm you know, I'm doing all these national level things. I'm at every trade show. I'm a very sought-after speaker, all that. And uh um, so I happen to go on a on a stay with me here on a cruise um uh for work, and it was called DTA. A work cruise, okay a work cruise. It was a Caribbean cruise out of Florida, defensive tactics at sea. Okay. So this is in the 2000s. So it is cheaper to put a bunch of cops on a cruise ship in the fall and train them than it is to put them up at a hotel.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Okay, and so this very innovative uh guy named Roy Bedard, he's a he's a real uh famous uh use force expert witness now, Dr. Roy Bedard, he hires my husband, who's a guy named Dave Smith, JD Buck Savage, um, and I to come and teach on this cruise. And uh so uh on cruises at that time, you you had one table for dinner, and it was all your people. You ate dinner with the same people every night on this cruise. I am seated at this table next to a guy named Sheriff John Bennell. So Google him, kids. He's uh he he was uh like the first big TV sheriff, and uh um he was he had a you know he was part of cops and all you know, the TV show cops, all that stuff. And uh, and so I get to talking to him. Well, you know, he takes a liking to me and and our son who was with us on the cruise. Um so when he gets back home, he approaches a TV producer and says, You should do a reality show with this woman cop. She seems fun. And again, this is before um the women of Broward County and okay, the hair flipping pink handcuffs and all that stuff. This is right before that all takes off. So I get a uh phone call uh from Dr. Bedard, and then he brings in a guy named Adam Reed. If you look up Adam Reed, he's got all these in famous reality TV shows. Adam comes, meets with us, and uh he says, We want it, we want you to be a subject of a reality TV show. Well, I'm a city cop, so you've got to go to the city council, you've got to go to legal, you've got to go.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Right, oh yeah, there's gonna be all kinds of hurdles for that.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

And and quite frankly, I'm already working about 80 hours a week as a trainer and an author and a patrol sergeant. And I I said, uh, I don't and plus I'm like, I'm a patrol sergeant, I'm boring, you know. I don't you don't want to follow me around, trust me. Let's make it a an ensemble show. We had like 20 women at Naperville at the time. And um, so uh so we went through, I mean, it took months and months and months to go through all the legal hoo-ha. Um, and then uh uh then they kind of did, I guess what you would call auditions. Okay. To see, you know, so we put out a thing, Who Wants to Do This Reality Show and all this stuff. And uh, and it was uh it was fascinating. And um so, you know, some women signed up for it. And uh, and then there there were women who, you know, I mean, I I because again, of course, I have all the receipts, I keep everything. Um, there were a couple of women on the department who would who wrote these emails to everyone in the department. This is a travesty. I would never do this. This is untoward, it's unprofessional. I don't want to be involved in this. The minute we start filming the show, the emails start flying. Sergeant Smith kept me out of the reality show. She doesn't like me. There was more mean girl shit in this situation than you ever saw in seventh grade. The show is so we filmed the show in 2008. I think it came out in 2009. Yeah. Um, and uh, and it became it became it was on AE. It was the A and E.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

What was it called? Oh, sorry, Female Forces. Female Forces, it's still out there. Can you find it? Oh god, yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Okay, it's still on uh biography and AE. It's in it's all over Europe. I get really it's in the Middle East, I get insane emails. Um and uh would you be my wife? Boy, um yeah, I mean I get a I I still get great feedback, and um because I don't I'm I'm a long-haired uh redheaded sergeant during it. So I don't look like I look now, but um yeah, so anyway, so it was a big huge hit. And uh we we started this whole trend. They wanted to come back for season two. Um, and I I said, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna retire. And uh so there was never a season two, okay, but it was uh it was an interesting experience.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

I am gonna have to look that up, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

So you worked with wife killer Drew Peterson.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

I did.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Oh boy, tell us a little bit about that. I know we're running uh long here, but I know you'll have to you'll have to edit some of this out.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

So back in the on the first county on the task force, in the task force days, on the county task force, we would work with other counties. We worked with Will County and in Will County, Illinois, task force had a Bowling Brook police officer named Drew Peterson, and he was he was uh undercover. And so we met with them, you know, him and his boss and our boss and all that, and we were gonna do some joint work together because Naperville um was partially in Will County, and then plus when you're doing undercover work, it's good to bring in fresh faces.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Yeah, you know, so so we went in and we met with Peterson and his boss, and he Peterson would not talk to me directly, he would turn to my partner and say, Tell her this, tell her that. I'm sitting right next to my partner. Oh my and and uh uh, you know, and my boss was like, you know, okay, this isn't gonna play. So my boss addressed that with his boss. So we went uh we went into Will County, we did a couple of cocaine deals at some kind of you know very seedy bars in Joliet, Illinois. Oh yeah, and um and so after we did this, what worked this one case, we were we were sitting around, I don't know, like in a parking lot or somewhere, and uh and uh Drew Peterson says to my uh partner, he goes, uh, hey, let's put a uh let's uh put a white t-shirt on on her and take her to so-and-so's bar. They got a wet t-shirt contest on, and she and her tits will be able to buy Coke all night long. Oh my god. So I just sit there and you know, my partner's like, All right, see you later. My my partner went right to our boss and he sat him down and he said, We're not working with him or them, Will County, anymore while Drew Peterson is there. This guy is off the rails, he's you know, disrespectful. And it wasn't just the sexist crap, but he was just he was one of those rogue, you know, cops always pushing the envelope. And that was kind of it. It's all we heard of them. But wait, but wait, there's more.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

But wait, there's more. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Years later, years later, I'm married to a Chicago cop. Uh, and he wants to get we don't want to live in Chicago because we're gonna have a kid. Yeah, so uh he gets a job on the Bolingbrook Police Department, and he comes home one night and he goes, Oh, you know, I think I made a uh uh I met a guy at work, he's pretty cool, you know. I think I made a friend at my new job.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

His name's Drew Peterson, and he's a sergeant. Oh great. So being the good wife that I am, we socialized with Drew. Oh God, and his wife. His wife and I are pregnant at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

It was the one um the one that we had four wives, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Yeah, it was the one he killed in the bathtub, allegedly killed in the bathtub.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

That was the third wife, I think, is the one that he killed in the bathtub.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Yes, the third wife.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

So uh, you know, so and I he was as big of a scumbag then as he was. Uh, you know, and and so I I uh fairly quickly after that, I got not because of Drew Peterson, but I got divorced.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

And uh, and then that's when the whole that then, you know, Stacy disappears. Stacy's from Naperville, Illinois. That's his fourth wife.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

That's the fourth wife that's like 19 years old that he was dating when she was 17.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

She was 17 when he started dating her. She was the managing a uh a motel in Bowlingbrook. And um, yeah, so it was uh so so yeah, we and we all, especially my old partner and I, um, you know, when that whole thing started, um we uh we were like, oh, he did it.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

We knew. Oh, yeah, and uh, and one last bit of irony that I just not a lot of people don't know, but I'll tell you, is uh um the state police unit that was running that initial investigation of Stacy disappearing and all that when they took it away from the Bowlingbrook Police Department, you know, and and this the Illinois State Police rightfully got involved. And the the chief, by the way, of Bolingberg PD, when all that was going on, was a former was he's a friend of mine, he was a former neighborhood cop. He went in and really professionalized things and all that, and uh, but anyway, the guy running the investigation was my first ex-husband, and uh so uh a lot of connections there to Drew Peterson when he went to prison. I was pretty happy, girl.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Yeah, you betcha. Wow. So you know, let's switch gears a little bit here. You know, you're obviously you're very heavily involved in training, you were you know heavily involved in it. Where did that passion come from?

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I love education. I you know, I was raised by an educator, okay. Um, and uh, and I I saw, as you've now heard, that how uh how important training is. And uh, you know, I I initially got involved as a field training officer, but then um I got recruited to teach on the statewide level in Illinois through our they call it mobile training units, MTUs, but it's our it's our post. And um I got involved in that and and started writing curriculum like maybe we could have some training to teach young cops how to be undercover and not get killed. Yeah, um that's a good thing. You know, maybe we could maybe we could have uh, you know, uh, you know, I I with a uh a guy from another police department, we started um career survival classes, career survival for women in law enforcement, career survival for minorities in law enforcement, not from a DEI perspective, but from a here's some practical stuff you can do to not get you know harassed and not get, and that was wildly successful and went national.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

And uh, and then you know, so that's how, but I just really always had a passion for education. And uh, and then again, then I I end up working for the law enforcement television network, which is you know, training-based television, then for police one.com training, yeah, and uh, and I I I married a guy, Dave Smith, one of the most well-known police trainers in this country, and started working with Dave Smith and Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman and all these things, learning about uh curriculum and how your brain works. I I have one of my specialties is brain uh function and brain differences and retention of information, stuff like that. And um uh, you know, I I've got honestly, you know, I've got two master's degrees in my head, but I never uh formalize it. I just I have if I could show you my office, there's books everywhere. Yeah, and uh uh you know, I just really I I develop that because the more the better trained you are, the safer you are.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

You know, it's amazing to me how you know police um budgets are always under scrutiny, you know, because they're usually one of the biggest drains on a city budget is you know, police and fire, yeah. That's and education, those are the top three, usually. And when there's budget cuts in a police department, usually the first thing to go is training.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

And then they're you know, then something bad happens, something goes sideways, and they're raising their hands. It's like, how could this have happened?

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Yeah, why didn't you know better?

SPEAKER_04 43:57

How weird is that, you know, it's like okay, but you know, and that was the thing.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

I was so fortunate that uh one of the things I learned learned fairly early on was take some vacation time and pay for your own training. So I did a lot of that, and then as I became that trainer that was going to every national level and and ultimately in international conference. I mean, I've trained in in the Middle East, Tbilisi, Georgia, the Balkans, I mean, you name it, you know, and uh Canada, you know, all that. Um, but I I One of the deals I would make as a trainer, I'm like, I'll knock X amount of money off my speaking fee if you let me attend X amount of hours of training and you certify it. Yeah, it's gotta be certified. And so that you know, that was something I learned and and did that till the day I retired.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

Wow. So what do you see cops doing right and or wrong today in policing today?

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Well, uh, obviously they do a lot of things right. Um you know, I really see a a love for country and a love for community um from a lot of cops right now. Um and uh uh but I I again not gonna sound like I'm a thousand years old, but um I you know there's too many out-of-shape cops. Yeah, there's too much whining and complaining. Um there's you know too much, oh, it's not fair, and we need to have things like 30 by 30 because we need more women, because women are being held down, they're not holding down women that are good at the job, um, in my opinion. Uh, and not everyone, male or female, is um uh is going to be good at law enforcement or is even attracted to it. Right. And let's just be honest, who's attracted to law enforcement? More men. Yes. Um, and uh, and so you know it's that kind I don't know that we're ever gonna get past 15 or 20 percent women because I don't think more than 15 or 20 percent of women are interested in and or capable of being police officers. And uh, you know, so I I don't like the DEI stuff and I I see too much of it. Um, you know, but again, the cops in general, um, I think are doing a uh the ones that are working hard at it are doing a good job. I'm wildly disappointed in police leadership around this nation, chiefs more than sheriffs. I see such there's such spineless, weak leadership. You know, we just had a police chief of a major agency crying on national television.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

Oh my lord.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Um, you know, talking to you, Chief Day. But uh, you know, uh, you know, they become too political and they've just become too weak. They're they they they won't stand up for their officers. Body cameras have changed a lot, the political atmosphere has has changed a lot. So anybody who does go out and do this job and does so well, God bless you.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Uh, because it's a um it's a really tough job.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

It is. So what can we do to, you know, there is it's always a pendulum, you know, you're a hero one year and then you're the you know the devil, the next, you know, five-second clip on you know, YouTube or TikTok or whatever. You know, what can we do to attract the best and brightest in choosing a career in lawn for enforcement?

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Well, we've got to get rid of any of the DEI standards. I you know, we have got to, as a profession, we must take the best and brightest, and that includes uh academic standards, uh physical standards, mental health standards. Um, we've got to go, we gotta take a hard look at our testing process, our training process, but we have got to take the best of the best, and then we have to nurture them. And to anybody who's watching or listening to this, it all starts with who you vote for. So if you are a citizen or you're a cop or a retire cop or whatever, and you're thinking, oh, I wish my police department was better, I wish they do this, I wish they do that. Stop worrying about who's president and worry about who's sitting on your city council and who's on your sheriff's merit board and who's your mayor. Uh, you know, take a look at who controls your police department, who controls your state police, it's your governor. Pay attention to who your governor is. Um, all of that. It's it this unfortunately, you know. I'll be honest with you, for the first 20 years of my career, I didn't know the politics of anybody sitting next to me in roll call. I just didn't, we just didn't talk about it. Wasn't a big deal, you know. And so this should not be a political issue, but it is right. So if you want a good police department, you have to have good political leadership who's gonna who are going to hire or or you got to vote in a good sheriff. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:07

Okay. So what's your advice to anybody that wants to go into law enforcement?

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Oh my god, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. But here's the thing like I talked about, I just took the first test of any department that was hiring. If you are if you're a young person and you want to be a police officer or you're already a cop somewhere and you want to go to uh go to a different department, you you're like a nurse was 10 years ago. Um, you can pick your place. Wow. So research what kind of cop do I want to be? For example, like being a being a DEA agent sounded really cool to me when I was a young cop, but then I fortunately I thought, what do I want to be doing when I'm 45?

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Uh you know, so think 10 or 15 years or 20 years down the line, and what do you want to do? Where do you want to police? What's your passion? Um, and uh, and then go do it. I never had the same day twice in 29 years. I know you're the same, and you know what? Most of our friends can't say that.

SPEAKER_04 50:18

No, they've they were chained behind desks, they were you know doing whatever and they bitch and complain about how horrible their jobs were, you know, yada yada yada. And I'm like, Yes, I had some really bad days, I had some bad years, I had some you know, it it's gonna happen, but I had the time of my life, yeah, I had so much fun. You know, I was uh yesterday. I who was I talking to? Oh, my brother. Yeah, I was I was telling him the stories of all the ball busting that was going on in a police department, all the shenanigans, all I mean it was a blast! Oh my god, and I was like, I'm getting paid for this. This is so yes cool. It's like it's the best kept secret, you know. But everybody's like, Yo, this is the worst time ever to be a cop, you know, blah blah blah. If I remember when I was brand new, the old timers, there were Vietnam vets, were the old time cops, same, and they're like, Why do you want to be a cop kid? Yeah, this is the worst time in the world to be a cop. I got that speech from so many guys.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Oh, yeah, same hair.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

This is the worst our department's ever been. This is the worst time to be a cop. Go be a firefighter, go do this, go do that. And I'm just like, Oh, yeah, like, okay, well, I'm not listening to you. So, yeah, it is the best job ever. So, you wrote a book, The Ten Code, 10 Law Enforcement.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

I didn't write that book, the National Police Association. Oh, I thought you wrote it. Yeah, no, I wrote the forward. No, no, no, I didn't write that book, but I am uh uh I am uh the face behind it, you know. Okay, and uh, and so um so what it is is it takes exactly what we've been talking about, yeah, is all those lessons learned by us as cops, it's how to apply it to real life.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

And uh and it it uh um uh yeah, it's called I I have to, I've got to look it up to get the whole because it's kind of a long title, but it's called the 10 code. Right, yeah um and uh uh it uh and I'll I'll tell you just from a quick personal standpoint, everything that I learned as a cop when I got can't diagnosed with cancer in late 2020, you know, we literally took those those lessons of of survival and perseverance and following the rules and all those things. And we and we, when I say we, my husband and I applied that to fighting cancer and uh everything from how you survive a uh um a uh a gun battle and all those different things and and you know just everything from how you organize things, all of that, everything in that book, you can apply it to things like that. It's a pretty extraordinary read.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

Well, speaking of the National Police Association, what is your role with them? The National Police I'm their spokesman, okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Uh, you know, and yeah, you can go to nationalpolice.org and see what we do. We are uh uh a law enforcement, we're a charity, law enforcement advocacy group. And uh I was one of their writers, and uh they called me uh in in July of 2020. Go back to what was happening then. And uh they said, Hey, you know, we know you you you're good on camera. Can you uh handle this Zoom thing for us? I didn't even know what Zoom was. You're right, and uh and can you go talk to this ABC station about this issue? Yeah, and it was uh an issue about uh, you know, a George Floyd, it was a cop killer memorial in San Jose, California. And um, can you talk about it? What that means to the cops when they have to see Asada Shakur, uh who murdered a uh multiple police officers, she just died recently, and um uh her real name's Chasm Chasmine, Jasmine was that the one that went to Cuba or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

She went to Obama let her go to Cuba and oh my god, and uh, but anyway, um, so yeah, I I I spoke and then I got another request and another request and another request, and uh finally they hired, like, you want to be our spokesman? I'm like, sure. And then uh all of a sudden Fox News is calling and and uh uh you know uh newsmax and all that stuff, and you know, they you know, I'm like just everywhere, and then I start getting death threats and Antifa's after me, and and uh I'm a racist and uh Black Lives Matter hates me, and and uh yeah, so here that was five years ago, five and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

So the National Police Association, what do they do?

SPEAKER_03 54:58

They are a a basically a an advocate advocacy group for uh law enforcement and for citizens. So, example, we're the group, the first group that sued um to get the uh Nashville Covenant School Shooters manifesto released by the FBI. We're the group that sued the Biden administration to release all the uh correspondence um in and around the Biden administration about the Border Patrol agent whipping case, um, all of those things. So we file FOIA requests and litigation. Okay. Um we file friend-of-the-court briefs, uh, amicus briefs in in a myriad of cases uh with in front of the Supreme Court who uh cases that might negatively impact law enforcement. We will file a friend of the court brief. Um we uh we have a legislation advocacy um arm. We will help smaller departments get uh body armor for their canine or start an explorer post. We have a therapy dog that we support. Um canine Luna, look her up, she's amazing. Um, all of that. So um we and and so my role is I'm the spokesman, I go out in the media, and and the you know, in addition to the fact that I can obviously talk, um I I understand how to do media and I am uncancelable. That that is probably the my greatest asset. I have a train, I work, I I'm a police trainer, I own the company. Um, you can believe me, Black Lives Matter and Antifa and so many other groups and political entities tried to get me fired. They would call the chief of my agency, uh, you know, you gotta fire that racist bitch. Uh, and he just laugh and go, She hasn't worked here in a long time. But thanks for calling. And uh, you know, same thing. Mike, I would literally answer the phone for my own training company. You gotta fire that racist bitch. What racist bitch? Uh you know, and there's there's not a word I've ever uttered that's racist, but because I I properly label Black Lives Matter uh as a scam, which now we all know that's true.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

Um yeah, so it's a great job. Go to nationalpolice.org, see what we do. Follow me on Twitter at SGTBetsy Smith and follow them at uh their X handle is uh at Nat Police Associ.

SPEAKER_04 57:35

Okay. Well, I'll tell you what, let's wrap this up. What's next for you? And where can people find out more about you and your work?

SPEAKER_03 57:42

Uh so I'm uh I'm kind of involved in uh local politics here in Southern Arizona, and uh, but I'm gonna uh keep doing this job as long as uh people want to hear from uh from Tactical Grandma uh about uh law enforcement issues. Uh, you know, I I'm I'm I I give you know, I I'm still doing training a little bit, but my husband and I are desperately trying to retire. I am a cancer survivor, so we're actually what's next for us, a two-week cruise, because uh we really need to kind of try and have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Well, you deserve it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

But uh, you know, but I I love getting on social media, I love getting on X and uh really talking about uh issues of the day and and things like that. And I love advocating for our profession because not a lot of people have the ability, um, like I do, to be able to tell the truth about the the wonderful men and women of law enforcement in this country.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

Do you have your own website or just defined you as nationalpolice.org?

SPEAKER_03 58:45

I pulled the plug on my own website, which is was frightening. It was scary. Uh, but it's nationalpolice.org. Uh, you can you can find me on there, and then you can find me on LinkedIn and all the socials and all that.

SPEAKER_04 58:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

All the socials.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

All right. Cool beans. This has been a fantastic talk, Betsy. I love talking to you. I'll definitely have you back on the show. I I just had so much fun, and I think we just kind of scratched the surface, really.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

I know there's so much more we can talk about, so we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

All right, that sounds great. Thank you so much. Thanks everyone for joining me for the conclusion of my interview with retired police sergeant and spokesperson for the National Police Association, Betsy Brantner Smith. I thoroughly enjoyed talking with Betsy, and she is welcome back anytime on my show. Well, that wraps up another episode of the Cops and Writers Podcast. If you haven't done so yet, could you take a minute and rate and review this show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts? If you have already, thank you. As always, thank you for all of your support, and of course, let's be careful out there.