The Crossover

What If You Just Nuked Half Your Brain? 🤯 | The Crossover 5.8.26

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0:00 | 1:19:55

Josh (@cardboard_chronicles) and Chris (@chris_hoj), the founders of Card Ladder, join forces to bring you the most entertaining and educational sports card discussion on the internet every Friday night.

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SPEAKER_03

And we're live. Welcome everybody. Welcome back to the crossover. Today's Friday, May 8th, 2026. I took a look at the date because I every time I update our notes file for the questions for the show, I write down the date. As you can see, I have the date Friday, May 8th, 2026, written right here. What do you think the date was of the most recent episode?

SPEAKER_02

January 30th. Alright. Christina?

SPEAKER_01

Did we do one in January?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. We might came, we did a comeback once and then went away again.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Yeah, then January is something, I guess. Wait, January.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I have no idea because I'm like trying to think where we were.

SPEAKER_03

It was January 16th, and we were in California.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So almost, but not quite three months. I win. You do win. And this means that uh we can keep up with our new cadence of once a quarter, the quarterly board meeting.

SPEAKER_02

Hmm. This is for the notes or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yep. We're gonna set some KPIs.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

Roadmap. Get our roadmap lined up. All right. Well.

SPEAKER_01

And no more crossover ever again.

SPEAKER_03

Josh, tell me what you said right before we went on about how you were setting up.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah. It's been so long that I was setting up as if we were going live on Instagram. And I and I had a sigh of relief because I hate that setup. I was like, oh, thank goodness. I just needed my camera and my microphone. I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_03

That's hilarious. All right. Well, we are back and we open these things up. How long are we gonna go tonight, by the way? An hour? Should we set the bar right there? We could do 90. Hour to 90? Okay, we'll see where the questions take us.

SPEAKER_01

I got sales to do, guys.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, it will be somewhere between 60 and 90, and we'll see how the energy goes. All right. Maybe we'll be like Wemby, who can do can have like a good six minute stence, but I was gonna say phone in the fourth quarter. Well, all right. Let's let's do mail days. That's what we started with. We start with mail days. And Christina, would you like to lead us off? You've got three months of mail days. I do.

SPEAKER_01

I do. I have some cards too to show off. Okay, so let's start. I'm gonna make meme the big so I picked this one up uh at the West Coast card show. Uh Jeremy Lee is actually the one who brought this one to my attention, brought it over, borrowed it from the guy's case, brought it over, and uh showed it to me. I also then and then Jeremy Lee, let's stay on track, uh sent me this nice PMG green of otter out of 10.

SPEAKER_03

Both are very beautiful cards.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. And then I started doing a little bit of an otter one of one pickup. So I got this one rookie 2020 stature one of one. I haven't shown that one off yet. I got this acetate one of one, which I really enjoy, and then to show off the famous lake card. Um tell the story briefly one of one. Okay, briefly, I I want to like bring you guys back on. You see like the damage on the edges. I want to bring you back on while I tell this story so that people can see your facial reactions. So I was um thinking this is a really pretty card. There's blue like platinum, like foil. Let me go take a picture, blue sky, blue lake. Take the picture on the dock, make it pretty, and have the the like card pop. And it popped right out of my hand when a gust of wind blew and it flew out of my hand off the dock and about six feet into the water, open water. Uh, and it was what when was this? April? I was not jumping in a Wisconsin lake in April.

SPEAKER_03

You measured the temperature of the lake.

SPEAKER_01

I did. I then looked online because they tracked the temperature of the lake every day, and uh it was 42 degrees, the the temperature of the lake, the water. Um and so yeah, I got I got this nice little ditty, uh, went for a swim. And uh then I called Hoje and he laughed at me. And he said he would come down and try and help me fish it out. And then I ran around the shore to another dock where I could pick up um, like go out on someone's dock that I wasn't supposed to be on and try and fish it out of the water, and I was able to, and then uh yeah, it was it was uh quite a big adventure, and now I no longer take photos away from my desk.

SPEAKER_03

Nice, all right, great mail days. That's five different otters there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, five otters, uh three one of ones, one out of ten, and then the limited low uh auto material was uh out of a hundred, the SP.

SPEAKER_03

Very cool.

SPEAKER_02

Josh, care to go next. Well, do you want my reaction to her story? Sure. That sums up Christina. Yeah, she's like trying to do something and then she drops it and falls in the lake.

SPEAKER_01

I try to be a little extra and it doesn't go well.

SPEAKER_02

It's the thought that counts. She like she had she like had the perfect idea, like the shimmery. I get it, I totally get it.

SPEAKER_03

No, look, she knows better. There, she wants to play this off. She like, you know how sometimes people like fake punch you, you know, and it's like, oh, I almost hit you, you know, joking around. She she can't make those jokes because she will land. She she doesn't, she's she'll just actually punch you and be like, oh okay. Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to so like you know, she should like I tell her like you can't.

SPEAKER_02

She thought the lake was far away, but like she was in the lake.

SPEAKER_01

But like, okay, but I was like in the middle of the dock, okay.

SPEAKER_03

And the card is raw, like that's a different level of risk versus if it was encapsulated. Hopefully, there's some waterproof in there.

SPEAKER_01

If it was encapsulated, it would have sank. Like, luckily, it was raw and it it landed foil like uh chrome side down, paper side up, and then it just like was able to like float into shore. It literally looked like this when it was floating in, and um, and yeah, you know, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

All right, nicely done. All right, Josh, you're up, buddy.

SPEAKER_02

I'm reading some of the comments, though. They're funny. Yeah, man, Car said, You guys were gone so long this live doesn't show up in my recommended anymore.

SPEAKER_03

That's sad. We got bumped out of the algo.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, all right. I'm pretty sure I didn't show this to anyone because I kind of forgot I bought it, but that's good. 2014 Immaculate Collection one of one, Antonio Brown. 2014 is like pretty old for the panini era. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, especially for like these thicker cards. Yeah, it's super early immaculate, and I do like the the base one of ones of the thicker cards with like the holofoil, they're cool. I don't need an auto or a patch on everything, right? So I was trying to get the scataboo, Cam Scattaboo. He's my favorite ASU player of all time. He's just a beast. Chris is like, you even liked him. You were like texting me, like, this guy's amazing, he is great. I tried to get his Black Finite Giants rookie, like the official one, but I'm too poor. And so I settled for the one that makes more sense for me, which is the draft picks version of Prisms. Uh, and it's you know, him in the ASU jersey, which is cool. And I like this better than the Bowman rookie stuff, so love it. And it was eight percent of the cost.

SPEAKER_01

Is he wearing red? Because it it almost looks like so deep red that it's black, like looks black, like it looks like a jersey match almost.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, our colors are maroon and gold, so it's like a it is like a dark purplish red color. It's a maroon, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It looks great, it's a very nice. I like the colors.

SPEAKER_02

I do too. I'm happy with it. I would love to get the the Giants rookie, but I'll just wait till his prices crash. And then this one I got the other day. I tried to get it at National. I don't know if you guys remember it. I was like begging the guy to sell to me, and he finally did. So nice shout out uh Dobbs card guy, DeMarco Murray, 24, 20. I think this is the year he won the yeah, 2014. So this would be the year he won offensive player of the year. Nice super fractor. That's it.

SPEAKER_03

Love it. Very fun pickups.

SPEAKER_02

So far, everything's raw, Chris. Don't blow it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, no, well, technically I have one. Jeremy Lee gave me, like sent me one that was graded.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay. All right. Well, I am gonna blow it. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna give, whoa, I'm gonna give a small sample, honestly, of my pickups so that we're not here all night. I picked out four that I like. First up, we have uh a 2014 Rookies and Stars Khalil Mack, defensive player of the year, three-time first team all pro. Just a cool uh rookies and stars black one of one rookie. Great Chicago Bears stint, by the way. Next up, this is so random. I don't even know if anybody I mean you can see all this stuff in my card letter showcase, but I don't know, Josh. I don't know if you if you know that I have this. This is the 1998 Collector's Edge. What the hell? One of one Brett Favre. Brett Favre? I had known there was no premeditation I was gonna pick this up at all. I don't even know anything about this set yet. All I needed to see was three things. One, it's 90s, number two, it's a one of one, and three, the price was like incredibly low. So it's the 1998 Collector's Edge Odyssey single edge card number 238, Bread Farb, fourth quarter one of one. So Farb has like four cards in the space that's kind of like got like a select tier structure to it. And this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

It's kind of like the the Star Rubies, is it? You know, it's got like the not the first two years of it, but the the year after that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's the same pattern. It's the same pattern. It is, and so yeah, Grant Slayton, Waldorf Stories had that when I met up with him to do a different deal. And I was like, dude, what's I'm like, what's the deal with this card, dude? And he was like, Oh, well, here's the price. I was like, Are you kidding me? I'd love to take that. I was like, dude, 90s one of one, please. Okay, next, okay. This so first of all, I'm wearing a Lakers hoodie tonight in support of our great team, but also because it's like a throwback to the fact that like a year ago on the crossover, I said I'd never wear a Lakers hoodie. This next this next card is a throwback.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

The the logical hypocrisy just made us stop broadcasting. Okay, this next card is another callback to like make like maybe two or three years ago. We would always say, Man, wouldn't it be fun to collect two guys? Right? Yes, Kevin Durant and Aaron Rodgers. More so Rogers, but yes, yes, and finally an opportunity presented itself to get an Aaron Rodgers card. And so this is his 2005 Bowman Gold one of one. And I'm like a few weeks uh removed from like doing all the research that I was doing on this card, but uh he has 20 Packers uniform rookie year one-of-ones, and uh even fewer of those are true base one of ones, so it's very exciting, and also if memory serves, that's the first time Flagship Bowman ever issued a one-of-one, and it's the only gold one-of-one that flagship bowman ever did. So that's really exciting. And then the fourth and final card that I'll show was one of the most fun ones to pick up of the last four months. This is a Michael Jordan one of one from 1999, NBA Legends. This is a five-card set. One of the cards is Jordan. The other four are Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Dr. J. And the theme of the set is upper decks, all uh first team all NBA. So you have, like I said, Jordan and Magic are the two guards, Bird and Dr. J are the two forwards, and Wilt is the center. And so each of those cards gets a one of one. This is the Jordan one of one that came by way of trade with Stanley. That's it. That's my four. I I could have done many more, but I spared you guys.

SPEAKER_02

I love the Rodgers.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm very do a whole 20-minute monologue about Aaron Rodgers.

SPEAKER_03

Give us like a preview of it. Just just dip a toe in.

SPEAKER_02

I think he is like, you know how I feel about LeBron, and I have to like fight against it with people. Mostly it's it's like it's okay. I I'm fine doing that. I feel like I have to do that for Rodgers, and it's similar. Like the way that I look at his career, the longevity, the peak that he had, the insane statistical seasons with like 48 touchdowns and four interceptions, or whatever his like peak delta was his the delta on touchdowns of picks, the two MVPs later in his career that were you know completely unexpected. The two earlier MVPs, it's just really like the lack of Super Bowls. But I just think he's like top five quarterback of all. He's just like the most talented quarterback. His he used to like run a lot. People don't know that. You know, they watch him now. He used to be an incredible runner. I would always he was a great fantasy quarterback because he could actually run and he didn't ever throw picks. So I've always just really liked Aaron Rodgers.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Great rant. Way way better than Brett Favre.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, pump up that Aaron Rodgers. Let's go. We got some pumping in the chat here, too.

SPEAKER_01

One of my throw picks. One of my favorite things about the Roger cards, uh, Rogers cards is the like practice shorts with the red jersey. Like, it's just such an iconic, like, oh, this is Aaron uh Aaron Rodgers rookie card.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, dude, that part too. Like the fact that he doesn't care what the media thinks about him. I just like the more the media hates him, the more I like him. Just keep going. Double triple down, Aaron. Who cares about these people?

SPEAKER_03

Amen to that. All right. Well, let's get some questions here. Because we got a boatload of them. First up from Bird Brain Sports Cars. We're gonna warm up very slowly tonight so we can get back into our rhythm. You guys went from a Joel Embiid load management to a full-on Ben Simmons back injury. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02

Dude, you can't get this creativity on any other show. I'll be let's be honest. That's an incredible insane take. That's so accurate.

SPEAKER_03

I I'm gonna I'm gonna uh tussle with that a little bit. Ben Simmons is out of the league, bird brain. We're back in the league. We took a summer off. Bill Simmons takes every summer off, all right? Chill. Next from WWE Galman. Thank you for making my day and bringing back another episode. Question for tonight: which of these things comes first? The Dallas Cowboys win another Super Bowl. Fanatics 10X is the hobby, or we get the next episode of the crossover after this.

SPEAKER_02

This is the genius of the show. These guys make our jokes.

SPEAKER_03

They write our show. Well done, Gellman. Check out his new podcast on the Stacking Slabs Network about wrestling cards. Or don't. Okay. Or send him a question. PLB cards says the national is less than two months away. That's not true. Is that true? Christina.

SPEAKER_01

It's a little more than two months away. Because two and July 8th. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Two and a half months.

SPEAKER_01

It's a little less than three months away.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, PLB cards, you dude, what can does he know what month it is? We somebody needs to check on this guy.

SPEAKER_01

He maybe he thinks it's June.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's the end of July. He says, okay, he says, since we probably won't get another crossover before then, how excited are we? What kind of vibes and storylines are we expecting? Card letter booth preview. Christina, I know you're gonna try and like rush to show like what the booth's gonna look like because of that question. Just don't. Let's just keep this simple. Use our words. No, you wouldn't do that? Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_03

Anyone want to field this?

SPEAKER_01

Make sure you stop by the card letter booth because we always have the best giveaways of the show.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I would be super happy if we copy pasted last year's national. I'm easy to I'm easy though.

SPEAKER_03

Was a good national last year.

SPEAKER_01

I'm thinking we'll give out cookies though. Cookies everyone expects it anyway.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Uh vibes and storylines. Anything else we want to add to this?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, there's gonna be so much chatter, I'm calling it now, about like, you know, this is like the boom of the hobby, this is the peak, or this is like the rocket ship, all you know, all this type of stuff. There's gonna be so much of that because it's just like all the energy, the the hobby's here or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

So you're saying uh buy your cards upside coming.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. I don't think there's gonna be a big downturn before national. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think so either. Um hobby champs with a great reminder to wear comfortable shoes and deodorant as well.

SPEAKER_01

And if you forget your deodorant, stop by the card letter booth because we'll we had some last year that were was branded, and I'll probably order it again this year in case you missed it last year.

SPEAKER_03

How much do you think it makes the marketing like the new marketing teams of these big new hobby companies, like the corporates? Like, how much do you think it makes them cringe when we constantly make jokes about smelling bad and not knowing what shoes to wear and just completely portray ourselves as caveman doofuses? I'm sure they're like, oh my god, stop this. That's why we can't stop.

SPEAKER_01

You gotta lean in. Like, if they were to lean in they would lean in as well. That's what we do. Everyone seems to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02

No, you're a customer. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, KYK.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. What do you think of when you think of what do you think of when you think of candy at the national? What is what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_01

The card ladder booth.

SPEAKER_02

Keep going. Those kids? Yes, let's go. Dude, I screamed at that kid.

SPEAKER_01

I screamed at him too. And then Chris, like, he shows up the next day, and Chris is like, here, have more candy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, Chris is like, let him cook. Dude, the kid beat us. What do you want to say? Like, he didn't he he broke he won the game. All right. Uh Drake's PC says, What inning of the crossover are we in?

SPEAKER_02

So let me get this straight. Drake, one of our top question askers, biggest fans of the show, great Fred. He's had three months, and this is what he came up with.

SPEAKER_03

He has another question that's later, too, but it ain't an it ain't A plus work either for being a you know what?

SPEAKER_01

Drake would message me during our little hiatus, and he'd be like, People keep asking me when you guys are coming back to crossover. And like, I just come on, Drake. Like, this is what you bring to us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he's not even answering questions of eBay messages. Like, what is this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's not trying to get a card. Like, what are we doing? Like, he's not trying to sell high or he's rusty.

SPEAKER_03

He's no, don't worry, he's got another question coming.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, he's rusty. We're all rusty here. All right. 1956 Tops guy, also with the innings. What inning are we in? And I'm only half joking because it seems like card prices are getting near pandemic levels. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like the game started over and we didn't know it. So I thought that was a really interesting comment. It feels like the game started over. Do you agree with that, Josh? Does it feel to you like the game started over?

SPEAKER_02

Well, what does that mean to you? You you said that you like that. What about it?

SPEAKER_03

Well, it's sort of like uh we played one round of the game and like we we were playing all these inning innings questions, and then oops, we actually hit the ninth inning in 2023 and 2024. And then we started a new game in 2025.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it does feel I feel like it's crazy at the Pokemon stuff just because the population numbers remind me of the pandemic where just like people are just buying anything and not even like didn't even know what market cap or pro population reports are. I feel like it's like that for Pokemon. It's like just buy anything, it doesn't matter. So I I do feel similarly, but just copy paste to Pokemon.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And if you look at like the the grading reports that Gemrate publishes, you see that TCG is like dominating grading submissions. Like sports are like, you know, I don't I don't I don't know that maybe they are going up a little bit year over year, month over month, but but they're not nothing staggering. Like the Pokemon and the and the TCG and the CCG share, the pie just keeps growing and growing and growing. So did our game start over? Or is there just this other game going on in the stadium that's right next door to us, and we think our game started over too, but really we're just hearing spillover noise from the other game. That's my question. Christina.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Do you feel like the game started over? Do you or you do you even feel like it's a game at all, or do you just put your head down and collect things?

SPEAKER_01

I just I don't really care what people are doing, man. Like I'm out here fucking picking up gold medal winner. One of ones for like$300? What like what game? Like, I'm fucking crushing it.

SPEAKER_03

Nice. Sorry. From Cage.

SPEAKER_01

I'm dropping him in the fucking lake. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_03

With card prices hitting COVID era highs again. Does Josh expect a return of the Metaverse 2?

SPEAKER_02

Does he would you like me to take our victory lap on metaverse literally getting shut down after spending billions of dollars? Dude, he served it up. We got paraded around these videos of people walking around in like 1999 level of technology of these like fake rooms with card pictures on the wall and the yachts that cost a million dollars, and they literally shut the whole thing down.

SPEAKER_03

Let's go, dude.

SPEAKER_02

And like little little pictures of Pokemon monsters are hitting all-time highs, but this like new tech wave is completely shut down after billions of investment.

SPEAKER_03

I saw a meme that was like they started, they started with like Bitcoin, then they went to NFTs, but now like that whole group, like they finally settled on Pokemon Pokemon cards. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02

You've seen those have you seen those bot accounts where it's like the NFT avatars or like dot ETH accounts, and they're like posting the same Pokemon garbage. Like they're just saying this canned uh bot sentences.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

And they take pictures of like they have like AI photos of like a made-up basement with like all this sealed Pokemon Wax, and like, guys, I just sold all my crypto and all my NFTs, and I put it all into Pokemon Wax. You should do the same.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that's so good. Christina, you you felt like you wanted to jump in there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was just gonna say, like they went like they started a Pokemon as kids in 1999, early 2000s. They went so far and got so far off track and lost everything and tried to scam everyone, and now they're back at the same fucking hobby they had when they were kids, and they're happier than ever. So it's like, why did you have to take that detour, man? Just like stay with what you love.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love that it was like you guys need this technology pitch. That's what's gonna really get you excited. Like the, you know, removing the difficulty of shipping and all this stuff, and like the physical nature of the cards, this is terrible. You need the NFTs, you need the metaverse, so much better. And then now it's like, guys, come on, it's always been cards, you know that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

All right, let's go to the next question from Wilt One of One. If your knowledge and memory of cards was completely wiped away, and you were uneducated about cards, about brands, about products, etc., and your current PC was laid out on a table in front of you, and you had to choose one card as your favorite. What card do you think your cardless self would choose and why? This is almost like a variation of the let me ask my wife or my mom, right? Like, which card does she like the best? Except it's you, it's your aesthetic preference, not theirs.

SPEAKER_02

Do we still have our sports knowledge? Yes, you do. So you'd probably like you'd still be you know everything about MJ and McCaffrey and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I like how you're hacking the question already to say, well, we can still do plenty of ranking by player, first of all.

SPEAKER_02

Like I would just look at my LeBron PC probably and be like, oh yeah, this is great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, I I think the question has kind of isolated it down into like on a rudimentary level, what can you figure out? I think it I think it would stand out without too much thought that like the rarest ones are special. I think it would stand out that like the beauty of the design matters and like what the image looks like and who the player is. I think I think that I think those are the things that would crop up. Christina, what do you say?

SPEAKER_01

I I think the way I've always preferred cards and like gravitated towards the aesthetics and the artist, like the artistry of them. Like I don't think that would change, even if I didn't have knowledge of cards. The card itself might have changed due to changes in my collection, but I it would still be, you know, arena designs cards.

SPEAKER_03

Well said. I missed a great comment from the previous question from YouTube account Haver who said, Who needs real tangible dick butts when you can acquire crypto dick butts? Exactly. And then there was a great comment on this one too from IRL cards who said, My girlfriend picks the dumbest card in this scenario. She says, just because it's red, it's a dumb thought exercise. I tend to agree with this too. I actually do zag against the what card does the person who knows nothing about cards like the best. Why would I ever want to outsource my judgment to somebody who has no idea what they're talking about?

SPEAKER_02

But it's you.

SPEAKER_03

But it is you, it is you. So sort of like you're starting over. You're so kind of like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

The only thing you didn't Yeah, the only thing you guys didn't bring up that I would have is I would probably very quickly figure out the rookie card thing. I'd be like, what's why does it say rookie card? Oh, it's 2003. Okay, so this is like his first year. That's probably pretty good. True.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think I don't care about that much because I like Jordan doesn't really have a rookie card.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Come at me, star versus flare bros.

SPEAKER_02

But if I laid out the if I laid out all the McCaffreys, you'd probably like you'd be like, Well, they're all like these black ones, they all seem to be one of ones. If I had to pick one of these, I guess I'd pick the one from his first year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

Indeed. Okay. But uh, but a great question.

SPEAKER_01

I love but also in defense of IRL's girlfriend.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Who cares? Like, why is it dumb? Because it's right, like she likes the color red. Like, maybe you're dumb.

SPEAKER_03

It's dumb because why would you outsource your judgment or opinion to somebody who has no interest and doesn't care at all, and who's picking on a totally arbitrary metric? It is, it it does, it is useful in one way, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's why he's dumb because he's the one who was like, hey, you pick.

SPEAKER_03

Like the one fair. The the one way that it's useful is that it isolates the judgment to aesthetics. It reminds me of the boom of a few years ago when like it was trendy for a little while to be like, Yeah, I went to my friend who's not who knows nothing about cards, and I asked him, Do you like the BGS holder, the PSA holder, or the SGC holder the best? And like you'd be surprised how many people say BGS, you know, that would always be like the take. So, like, I get it. There is something to that. There is something to sort of asking somebody with no stakes in the game which looks the prettiest.

SPEAKER_02

But uh so this question is like me pretending to be an influencer.

SPEAKER_03

What do you mean? How does it how is that?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. I don't know how anything works. I'm just like participating, and just like, oh, look at that one. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. They don't know cards, they're just looking at the cards and they're like, hey, buy this one.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, IRL cards goes. I was curious to see what she said, and there was a Star Ruby's a prism one of one on the table, etc. And she picked a Donrus optic red. That's great. That's amaz that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01

I was kind of hoping, I was kind of hoping it was a PMG red, and like she had taste, but no, no, it was a Donrus optic red. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Here's a spin-off of that question. Let's say you did have to push restart, and uh, and this time you don't even have any cards either. Like, let's say you just genuinely are starting over that the men in black flashed you and wiped your memory. How long do you think it would take you to like reacquire your car, your card knowledge?

SPEAKER_02

Well, how long have you been in the hobby?

SPEAKER_03

Almost 10 years coming up on yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You just now here's why here's why I say that. You just now bought a rookie one of one Aaron Rodgers.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Like a year ago, you would have been like, yeah, but you would have had some excuse of why you didn't, and now you're I know, I know, dude.

SPEAKER_03

I know. But but uh but but is there is there more advantage now? Like uh in 2016, like I don't we I don't even know there was a podcast uh that I was listening to hobby-wise, and now there's a lot more tools for content.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you might do it quicker.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it would definitely be quicker.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, okay. From Jeff Froze Jordan's Thanos gets all the infinity stones again. He snaps, and all cards have become one of ones, okay. So for some reason Thanos has to make this happen, but all cards, every single card ever made, has become a one of one. Does this excite you or does it take all the fun out of it? How would you go about deciding which cards you want? What do you say, Josh?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that would take all the fun out of it. The whole reason that the one of one exists is the contrast against everything else not being a one-on-one.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Right. What about this other part? How would you go about deciding which ones you want?

SPEAKER_02

If everything was a one-on-one, I'd you know this is to be like art or something. Like I just wouldn't, I wouldn't even do it.

SPEAKER_03

What do you say, Christina?

SPEAKER_01

Well, uh I'm trying to pick up context clues because I don't Avenger. I think that's an Avenger, maybe that's a DC thing. I don't know. But um I think it's Avenger. Anyway, um so he has like mystical powers and he's making everything a one of one. Uh does that mean like everything's a one of one, or like he removes copies of the different print runs?

SPEAKER_03

Like no, I think it's saying every card gets every card becomes a one of one.

SPEAKER_01

Because like this one is out of ten. So, like, does he remove the other nine?

SPEAKER_02

Or great question. Who loses the cards? Who loses the cards?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like I that's and or is it that you don't lose the cards, but like literally like they change one thing, or they just stamp everything one of one? Because if everything's just stamped one of one, but it's actually the same card, it takes all the fucking fun out of it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, okay. So so how many of those greens are there? There's ten.

SPEAKER_01

Ten.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so you're sort of saying, do all ten greens each become a one of one? Or does or does all ten of them get condensed into just one one of one?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I take this as I take this as we go back in time and we never had anything but one of ones, and it's just a different reality.

SPEAKER_03

Same, same. I I think that green gets condensed into one one of one.

SPEAKER_01

Well, see, that's what I was trying to say. Like, I don't I don't understand the reference, like I don't movie. So, like, um it when he changed when he snaps, does he change the past and you like never know? Or do you know that there used to be 10, but now they're only one of one? Like, I I'm kind of confused. So I don't really know how to answer this.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Here's the way I zag on this, and I have had time to think about it because I saw this question before long before you guys did. I say that this actually has a very easy solution, and that it's not a problem at all. It doesn't ruin any of the excitement, uh, or it doesn't add any new excitement, but it definitely doesn't take the fun out of it either. If everything's a one-of-one, in the in the sense that we were talking about, like it's not like there's you know, um, 1990 Skybox Michael Jordan, there's like countless copies of that. It's not like there's still countless copies and they all just get stamped to one of one, they're all identical. Because if that did happen, then you would just use the same clues we use now. We would just say, well, everything's stamped one of one, so just ignore the stamp and let's just actually see how many copies of these things exist, period. So like that can't be the thought experiment. The thought experiment has to be every single card in existence has just one copy of itself. And if that's the case, then the solution would just I I think the solution very, very obviously to me would be start at the first. That's how we'd rank them. The first one ranks the highest, the second one ranks the next highest, the third one ranks the next highest, on and on. And then you can bring in the aesthetic and the brand and sort of shuffle things around a little bit, mix things up a little bit. But that would be to me the very easy solution here. Is just like, well, if they're all one of ones and which one came first, that one would get priority to me.

SPEAKER_01

Fair.

SPEAKER_03

And I almost wish that is how it worked.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but some of the first one of ones are ugly compared to the next one of one.

SPEAKER_03

Very true. So there's still gonna be plenty of room for taste. Yeah, there's still gonna be plenty of room for taste. Yeah, still gonna be plenty of room for taste. Okay. Uh next up is Romo Collector. If Instagram or social media disappeared today, how would you collect differently? Christina, let me throw this to you first. No more social media. Do you even do that much on social media collecting wise?

SPEAKER_01

No, like I have to force myself to post the cards that I collect. Like, I don't really care about what you guys think of the cards that I collect. You guys as the general, not just you two, but also you two. So, like, I don't really my collections for me, so I don't really do it for the likes or the views or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

Good. That's a totally different perspective that I take. So, Josh, how where do you go on this question? If Instagram and social media disappeared, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_02

Hmm. I hate these questions. Just like, oh, what if he just like nuked half your brain? We've got like four in a row of these.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he definitely grouped them together.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, what if it was the year 2800? What would you do differently?

SPEAKER_01

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02

The last one, I have one other take. I don't care about this Instagram one.

SPEAKER_03

Go, go, go.

SPEAKER_02

Please. If everything was a one-of-one, I would be less excited because I can't make fun of people mindlessly buying kabooms in bulk and like downtowns that make no sense. And I can't feel as good about myself buying cards that I feel are better. That's the that's the spice we needed.

SPEAKER_01

I think you could, because those are still ugly.

SPEAKER_02

I know, but like only three people, you know, 20 people would have them or whatever. I just I need like the hordes of people that just mindlessly buy kabooms on end because they feel like everybody, the whole national show is just kabooms, every showcase. And that brings me joy.

SPEAKER_03

Josh, I just want to rewind and just give you a shout out from Hobby Champs. You said Josh's Carbard Chronicles was the first real Hobby YouTube content I ever consumed. I think that's there's probably a cohort of people for whom that's true. All right. Those people are called autists. Deep value investors uh would like to would like us to please discuss quote unquote funds buying cards again.

SPEAKER_02

Is that a thing? Is there a new one that popped up?

SPEAKER_03

Uh I don't know. There's definitely some that are there's oh, there is a new one. There is a new one that has been making noise on Facebook. Have you seen it? No. Okay, there is a new one. Um what's Facebook?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is Instagram one of the yeah, Instagram and social media are gone, remember? My life is a lot happier.

SPEAKER_03

So oh, if if I could just like throw a quick answer to that previous one before we move on. Yeah, uh, I think uh losing social media would definitely change things because social media is like the local card shop for me of today. Like what I see on social media definitely makes me sick of certain cards because I see them all the time. Like it does impact how I do things. Yeah, it is a factor. So I don't know, it would it would definitely make certain things seem less common and then it would make other things seem less rare by comparison to those things. So we we would uh without social media, I think we would definitely sort of be more on our collector islands again, and I think that would make us worse off. So, all right, uh, so now this thing about funds worse off, but maybe better people. Yeah, yeah. Uh okay. So there is a new fund, it's on Facebook, it's advertising like tens of millions. See, here's the and then you know, we have the Wondershine Fund and maybe more funds. And here's the thing whether it was uh the fractionalization stuff or whether it's the from the previous cycle or whether it's the funds of this cycle, here the thing about the funds that I stumble with a little bit, maybe somebody could help me understand this better, is that uh what happens after you? I mean, I know there's a great rush in sourcing, discovering, striking a deal and buying a card. I know that that that is one of the most fun parts of the hobby. But after you have the card and like you don't have the card, your boss or your fund has the card, the your your fund sort of being the entity that controls it that you work for, even if you own part of the fund, you're still working for that fund. You know, so you don't have a card at the end of the day. You have a maybe a piece of a card, and then that would just like wear at me over time. Like, I actually don't own any of these cards, and I just kind of have a position in them, and I have to agree with everybody else in the fund or a majority of people in the fund before we can do anything, and like the the only thing that can ever happen is that we just sell the card for a profit at some point. So it really like stops being like it definitely mirrors the collecting experience up to the point of acquiring the card, but after that, like the whole joy of just like breaking out my shoebox, looking at my cards, enjoying my collection, thinking about how I want to change it and position it. That that seems to all go away, and that's that's that seems very unappealing to me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, cards are like uh traditionally for me, it's been collector and then the people creating the cards. And it's like this it's just me and them. They create the cards, I buy the ones they like, other collectors are competing, and then whenever the hobby starts to boom or whatever, that started in late 2010s, you just get all these other pieces that inject themselves in between those two things, right? You just get like this corporatization of the hobby, you get like marketplaces in the middle, you get you know, grading companies, you get all these things, and it just starts to add up over time, and the funds just kind of fall into that bucket where it's like doesn't really involve me. I'm still trying to get the cards that are created, and anything else is just like this isn't even really the hobby, it's just like another corporatization arm of the hobby that is trying to inject itself and make money.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I hear a lot, I hear a lot, like um we gotta remove the friction from the hobby. But the friction is where the fun occurs for the collectors. Like if you could just snap your fingers, Thanos style, and like be like, ooh, I own all of the cards that I want. Like, that's not fun. The fun is the chase, the fun is the friction, the fun is like beating out your friends and finding the card listed under the wrong like player on eBay so that you have it and they don't like that's the fun. So I'm I'm sick of the corporatization that Josh is talking about.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah. Thank you, Christina. I think you just gave us a nice episode title. Did anybody ever borrow our episode title shtick at any point?

SPEAKER_02

Please sign up for card letter. It's$20 a month. Um promo code in the description. Affiliate link below.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Uh um great, great, good discussion on that topic. And I just wonder what deep value actually would say about funds too. Because that I just come back to that. I just come back to that feeling of like, let's say the three of us had a card fund, and it would be like, dude, we'd be like, oh man, like we got we got a seed round of funding, and we have all this money, and like we buy some sweet cards, and then those cards are just sitting in some rich guy's vault. We're like, all right, well, that was fun, but now what?

SPEAKER_01

Then you like start planning an ocean's 11 heist so that I can get the cards that I was trying to buy the whole time, and I like they're sitting in a vault.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Those funds are usually like pretty short-lived to your point. Like they have the 10 million and they just like they want to see some of like the profits or like the excitement of it, and they want all that instantly, so they end up like spending the 10 million within a year, and to your point, it's like now I just sit on them and wait, or like do I keep collecting, but I spent all the 10 million? Like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I suppose there could be some fun sort of like treating it like a dealer, maybe where like, okay, well, we picked some really good cards, we got them at a really great price, now some time has passed, and I can sell these for more, and then we can keep flipping on and on. Like, I could see that, but I I struggle with the idea of just like buying a bunch of cards and throwing them into a fund, and then I can go look at it on a screen.

SPEAKER_02

And then they say words like capital, and you know, like, oh, I gotta like release this capital. It's like all right. Seed rounds and evida and ugh, all right. Dennis Patrick deployed. They say, I need to deploy this capital. Deploy the capital, man. You know what I mean? I'll deploy the capital.

SPEAKER_01

I need to deploy like the eject button, like, get me out of this fucking conversation.

SPEAKER_02

Like deploy capital, it's just like I roll my eyes and turn the other way. Holy smokes.

SPEAKER_03

All right, all right, up next, Dennis Patrick Zender. Do you feel like Alan Iverson's nineties market is prime for growth? Seeing MJ and Kobe's market smitch for quite a bit in the past year and a half. Do you anticipate someone like Iverson, the third best player, and a lot of the iconic and sort of parallels? To be the jump in value or to be desired. So Jake 90s B Ball Cards replied to this comment when I shared it to my story, and he was like, Wait, I feel like Iverson cards have gone up a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, okay. So do you have like the card letter index for Iverson by chance? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

In the last year, he is up 100%.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, yeah. So Iverson's card letter index has doubled in the last year. Okay, so so DPZ, you're putting your finger on something that's real, but it happened. It's his Iverson cards have gone nuts in the last year.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Kobe is the Kobe is the exact same. Who was the third MJ?

SPEAKER_03

MJ.

SPEAKER_02

MJ. This is like Iverson's gone up more than Michael Jordan in the last year. There you go.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but I feel like Iverson had more room to grow.

SPEAKER_02

Already. Previously.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'll do my Iverson rant now or later. Please. I think he's like a step below Rodman and like the overrated players of all time thing.

SPEAKER_03

So you're saying Rodman is the most overrated, but Iverson is a is coming up, is in the next tier of overrated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, I'll pull up any analytics rankings you want. He's like hundreds he's in the hundreds.

SPEAKER_03

He's just the volume shooter. Fair enough. All right. And his market has uh outpaced Michael Jordan's market over the last year. So the in sync there.

SPEAKER_02

Come on, like Kobe, five-time NBA champion. MJ. I mean, obviously, we don't have to go through all that. Iverson's been to one finals and he has one MVP.

SPEAKER_03

There you go. All right. From Drake's PC. Oh, this is good. I have some thoughts on this.

SPEAKER_01

Finally, here we go.

SPEAKER_03

I know we've been waiting for it. Let me say something. Wemban Yama's warming up. I'm ready to come up back off the bench. I got my breath. Okay. Nick, the worst sports cars recently did polls where the top 10 most collected football players were voted on and ranked. And there were lots of opinions on the rankings, and it's understood that the poll is a small sample. Many people correlate strong collector base with highest sale prices and number of transactions. My opinion, I think it's the opposite. To me, fewer number of sales of high-end rare cards speaks to a stronger collector base because people want to own those cards instead of chasing dollars. Do you agree or disagree? So, Christina, do you want to take a chunk?

SPEAKER_01

Why don't you go fucking first for once?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay. Well, Josh, do you want to say anything? Because otherwise, I have like a method of approach to this.

SPEAKER_02

I just have like a quick thing. Like, that sounds good. They're like, oh, in theory, if the player is really good and he's collectible, like you would never sell. But like that only goes so far where the player is so unpopular and so uncollectible that it's not even worth selling it. So like there is some sort of balance.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it can wrap back around. Right, exactly. The reason for no sales is just because nobody wants the cards in the first place. So I want to take this piece by piece. Okay, so first of all, like there's there were these polls, all right? Polls where the top 10 most collected football players were voted on in ranks. I don't remember how the question was asked. I love the thought exercise. And there's plenty of ways to do it. But I don't I I think the question was asking, like, there's a huge here's the thing, here's the point I want to make on this. There's a huge difference between asking somebody who do you collect among these football players, if any, versus who do you think everybody else collects?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because I think you know really well who you collect, but you might just not really have any clue what everybody else collects, but you think that's what they're supposed to collect. It's like the way that question is phrased matters a ton. Because Josh, let me ask you this. Which give me a sampling of the NFL players that you collect.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Like Antonio Brown, Todd Gurley, DeMarco Murray, like not who I would think other people are collecting.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And then I turn around and I ask you who do you think are the five most collected football players by the hobby?

SPEAKER_02

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning. Then it's like young guys, Burrow, Mahomes.

SPEAKER_01

You you wouldn't hit like a 90s guy like uh Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But you don't really have any way of knowing. I mean, that's an that's a highly educated observation, and you know a lot of people in the hobby, but you actually don't know if that's true.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

It just seems like that's the answer from what we see. So I I prefer that question to be, I prefer that survey method to be it, and it's and both are insightful, but I prefer the survey method that says, you tell me who you collect, and then I'll figure out who got who has the most collectors. I think because I think that will show that it's a lot more evenly distributed than it seems. Okay, the next part uh that he comes up with is that this part about uh correlating stronger collector base with higher sales prices, numbers of transactions, and Drake thinks the opposite is true. So Drake's point is that hey, if people actually really wanted and truly collected these players, they would never sell their best cards. So having fewer sales of the best cards is a stronger indicator. And then Joshua had a counter to that. And then the other point is that if a player is really highly collected, they're probably gonna have really high sales no matter what. And if the market is lucky enough to absorb really rare, desirable cards of those players, then those will be the ones that sell high. But if people hold those back, then people are just gonna pay a lot of money for the next best. So I just I still do think that the willingness of the consumer to pay a lot for a card is still telling us something meaningful about how desired those players' cards are because you can obviously imagine a situation where, like, let's take the Tom Brady example. Maybe Tom Brady's rarest, most beautiful, most desired cards never come to the market, but that's not gonna stop you know his Bowman Chrome PSA 10 for selling for five figures, even though there's tons of copies of that in circulation.

SPEAKER_02

Does that make sense, Josh? Well, has Drake sold more paid demanding cards or Brian Greasy cards?

SPEAKER_03

Nice.

SPEAKER_02

He's probably sold more paid demanding cards, but he's the more collectible player, he's the better player, it's his favorite player. He's never sold a Brian Greasy card because you know, he's never bought one, he's never had to sell it, he's never had to consolidate, he's never even come up, and there's never been a topic that he's ever been interested in because he's not even collectible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a great counter. And okay, that's uh that's all that I wanted to put there, but but uh the uh the good multi-part complex question from Drake, Christina, do you want to say anything about that idea of uh Drake's general thesis here that like maybe the most collected player is the one who doesn't have a ton of high-end sales of their rarest cards all the time?

SPEAKER_01

I think that like for the most collected player sometimes who has a lot of collectors who who are chasing his best cards, you have people who have to get out of that card when it hits a certain cap. Because like it's now hit a threshold where it makes no sense for someone of a certain income bracket to hold on to the card anymore. So then they let it go at a price point. That doesn't mean they don't collect that person anymore. That doesn't mean they wouldn't buy that card at the price that was more reasonable to them. It just means that where they are in life, they'd they need to take that money out. So I I just like kind of like fight this card. It I don't know, or this like question, I mean you fighting a question? I know next question.

SPEAKER_03

Fight this question from TCG Sports Cards. If your collection went to zero dollars tomorrow, would you panic or would you be okay with it?

SPEAKER_01

I'm fine, Christina? I'm fine. I again I don't collect for other people, I don't collect for the dollars. Like I don't think of that money like as like investment money where or like a savings account that like I'm gonna retire on this one day. To me, it's art and I'm interested in it, and I like to collect it for whatever reason. And if it goes to zero, then it goes to zero. But I had fun making the memories along the way, and it was entertainment.

SPEAKER_03

You and I can attest, you genuinely do think that way. So once in a while, I'll point out to you like a card that we have, and I'll be like, you know, we could sell this card and do something else with it, and you're like, Oh, really? Like you you genuinely like buy it and forget it, and you you don't have a ledger, you don't have a spreadsheet in your mind where you're like, Okay, well, I have roughly this is amount of cards, and like I could, you know, take some equity out of this at some point if I wanted to. You do not think that way. I can attest to that.

SPEAKER_01

And like my whole thing always with the cards, and like Josh could attest to this because he tried to buy a card from me long ago, I think at our first official in-person meeting, or like he tried to like get me to help like have him help sell it. And my whole thing is like, well, what am I gonna do with the money though? Like, I don't get that card for that money, or like for less money, so I could have the card and money. So, what the fuck do I care about? Money, money is so fleeting, guys. It's not even real. Okay, it's fucking paper, it's not backed by gold, like it's just backed by the US military. You're fucking fine. Spend the money. What are they gonna do?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so this is why I want to I see 90s auctions in the chat too. Josh Adams. Josh Adams is one of my favorite quotes. Josh Adams takes a similar mindset towards cards. His quote is this money's for spending, buy things, and then he just puts the card away. He doesn't think about it, he never thinks about what it's worth after. He enjoys having it, he enjoys it as a collectible, but he just doesn't think about it. Now, Josh, I think you and I are gonna take the other side of this, but let me pass it to you.

SPEAKER_02

Unleash me on this question. Please, let's go. There's so many holes to this question, okay, and I'll tell you why. First of all, well, I'm gonna assume that if my collection is worth zero, that a lot of other cards out there are now worth literally zero dollars, which means I am going to absorb like infinite cards immediately. I'm going to add to my collection, just go buy everything else. But since it's zero dollars, I don't even have to buy it, I just take them, apparently.

SPEAKER_01

They might pay you to take on.

SPEAKER_02

The question should have been the question should have been, you know, are you okay if you if like LeBron, you know, does something crazy and your collection value goes down 90% and everybody else's collections value is exactly the same, you know, or like just it's hyper focused on the mistakes you've made. I think that's the better question. Because if everything went to zero, you know, nothing even no, it's like we don't even we're not buying and selling anymore. We're just like we just have cards infinitely, then it's like now we're just sort of dealing in a different this it's like a commodity, we're just like it's not even a thing anymore. So this just turns the whole world upside down if the cards are literally zero dollars, right?

SPEAKER_01

Can I just address Brendan Ryan's like comment in the chat? Like he says, like to in response to me being like, just spend the money. It's like, what am I gonna do with the money? He said, we call that F you money. Okay, I like the conversation that I had with Josh when like he like said to me, I could double the money that you paid for this card right now. That was when like Chris and I were like poor in Los Angeles, like, and I was working as a guest breaker at bullpen to support my wax ripping habit. Okay, like it's not like I had money at that time, and I still said to Josh, what would I do with the money? Because like it's just like I said, money, like I didn't grow up with money, money means nothing. Like you you could get a job and make it like it's not a big deal. Like, if you wanted that money, there's ways to earn it.

SPEAKER_02

What card was that?

SPEAKER_01

The Luca Prism gold.

SPEAKER_03

I do attest to that that Christina has this mindset, and she doesn't Chris was the one that sold it. Yeah, she Christina doesn't fear losing a job because she's like I'll work at McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01

I can say, Do you want fries with that?

SPEAKER_03

I have no ego, like she does this routine to me, and it's and is it is a genuine bit. Yeah, she really feels that way.

SPEAKER_01

I'll clean houses, like I'll fucking scrub someone's toilet. Like, what if I need money? There's there's nothing in life like that I'm too good to do if I need to feed my fucking family.

SPEAKER_03

Like this is true. Now think about this, all right? When Christina and I go to shops, okay, we love to buy a box of something just to support the shop, right? We've accumulated maybe hundreds of hobby boxes from the last eight, nine, ten years. And I will go to Christina because Christina will be like, oh man, I gotta save some money to like get this thing. Like, are we need a new car for anybody who knows Honda Element that Chris?

SPEAKER_01

From 2007 that I'm still driving.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, she's like, we have to save up money, and I'll just be like, you know, we have like a hundred hobby boxes we could just sell some of these. She's like, Oh, really? She's like, We have that. I'm just like, this is this is it actually blows my mind.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like you, Chris and I, we like have a ledger of everything we own and what everything's worth at all the moments of every day. Christina's like, oh well, I have that. It's like, yep.

SPEAKER_03

It's just downstairs.

SPEAKER_02

I know it's funny.

SPEAKER_03

It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Is that is that ignorance is bliss, or she or you like prefer that?

SPEAKER_01

Like me personally, it just I don't think about it like that. Like, I don't think about life like that. Like, life to me is not transactional in that way. Like I said, like ever since I was a kid, like I've always had a job, and if I've needed money, I get a second job. Like, it's not like really a thing to me.

SPEAKER_02

Like, well, like when Chris is ready to sell some stuff to get an upgraded MJ, both of us are like, all right, let's figure this out. Let's like do the math and the puzzle. And it's like 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I will not get rid of this card unless X replaces it. Because like for me, like I don't want money, like, money doesn't do anything. Again, it's fake, it's not real.

SPEAKER_03

So see, this is a great spectrum of opinions on how finance is done, honestly. It is, and there's a lot of people who think like that. A lot of people who think like that. So, okay, so let me take a step. If and then I want to build in Josh's world. Like the real idea here is that my collection goes to zero, but nobody else's does. That's the that's the scenario here. Like, yes, my collection goes to zero, but because like Josh, if everybody else has dead, then I'd just like everybody give me all your cards right now because they're worth zero. I don't even have to pay you for them. Yeah, so that's why it's sort of preposterous to think that cards could go to zero. But but but maybe mine in my subset could. And so if they did, would I panic? No. Uh definitely just stylistically, panic isn't in my uh personality, but I definitely wouldn't be okay with it. I would definitely be wildly disappointed in that. And and but and here's why, okay, here's why I do think that uh cards having monetary value matters, and and here's how I'm gonna frame it from a totally collector-driven perspective. The value of my cards can allow me to get other cards if I so choose. So cards that have value to them can help me change the complexion of my collection if I ever want to do that. If I pick nothing but cards that go to zero, then eventually I lose the ability to ever shape or change or evolve or improve my collection because everything that I've bought has gone to zero. So cards having value is a key that unlocks the ability for me to continue to upgrade, evolve, and improve my collection as my taste changed, my prep my preferences changed, and as I learn more in new things. With that said, I think that value isn't a super interesting topic. I think value is secondary to the cards themselves. And I think if I have a proper understanding of the whole universe of cards, then I don't even need to talk about value because the card, the value should emanate from the card. This is something that uh so I see Jeremy in our chat. I was like kind of explaining this idea to him once, and here's what he spit back to me. I thought it was fantastic. And then Josh, he kind of credited you for giving him the sequence or the structure of the thought that formed this quote. The quote was the value should emanate from the card. The card shouldn't emanate from the value. I thought that was the perfect way to sum up what I'm trying to say here. Sorry, Josh, let me throw it back to you before we go on because this was a great question. Building in your adjustment to the question, what do you say now? Would you panic? Would you be okay with it? What would you do?

SPEAKER_02

I'm probably the most extreme of us three. You're probably in Chris, you're probably in the middle. I would probably I wouldn't panic, but I would be wildly disappointed as well. Because part of the collecting experience for me is sharing it with the rest of the community. And now, if the rest of the community is saying my cards suck so much that they're worth zero dollars, I'm disappointed. If they were if they were there with like you guys wouldn't even buy them for a dollar, if my cards were worth zero, yeah, like I couldn't even have you guys buy them for a dollar, I'd be like, dang, this is my cards suck.

SPEAKER_01

You know what, Josh? I would buy them for a dollar just to make you happy.

SPEAKER_03

Where's Stip? Stiff, right? Give me a title. Dang, my cards suck.

SPEAKER_01

Um I forgot. I was gonna say something, but I don't remember what it was. Continue.

SPEAKER_03

Sorry. Let me see if we can fly through a few more questions here. Diamond Mine card says, please discuss the recent movement in rare 90s stuff. Is this legitimate demand or is it just the vortex? Man, that stuff's been going up so much already, like in the last couple of years. Has it gone up more? Thank you, Stiff. Yeah, so that's the thing, dude. Who's buying this stuff, man? Are we in Vortex territory with rare 90s where it's like, all right, you know, there's this momentum and they're shuffling showcases and IG pages, and right.

SPEAKER_01

It really is like the prettiest stuff, though. Like aesthetically, it's very pleasing. So I get it. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just think it's it's always worth asking this question. I don't know if I don't know the answer to this question, but it's it's always worth being leery of that. Is there real demand here at these prices, or is this just sort of a bubble?

SPEAKER_01

We're also, I think, in a very bull market. Everything's high.

SPEAKER_03

And the context that also gets ignored a lot is that we're also in a market of a rapidly devaluing dollar.

SPEAKER_01

I I've been saying like the fucking last like 10 minutes, I've been saying the m like dollars aren't real. Like, stop it.

SPEAKER_02

Preach, Chris. Preach.

SPEAKER_03

All right, from Wolf Hart's cards. Do you think the industry has naturally become more polarizing due to the influx of people entering and the influx in cash, such as people and funds? Or has the increased social media presence exacerbated the industry's drama that has always been there? Or do you think the industry is a smaller reflection of the state of the world that we live in today, where everything has become polarizing as part of the ebb and flow of world entropy?

SPEAKER_02

She's kind of asking like, are we mirroring like the political polarization of the world and the hobby?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But like not having patience for each other.

SPEAKER_03

Is that what well you guys is a deep question? Like, I'll give you guys 15 seconds to think about it. I always like sort of have a stock answer to this, and it's not the whole answer, but it's part of my answer. My stock answer to this is like when you think about what sports cars actually are, it's a combination of some really sort of toxic things. It's a combination of sports fandom, which can get just crazy emotional and also unhinged. Just look at the way people sort of talk about athletes and teams and stuff, like it's crazy. And then the other thing is that it's it mixes sports fandom with finance. And mixing finance and finance is very pessimistic. It's it reeks of manipulation and it reeks of bad intention and you know moral ambiguousness or just uh total, you know, like human welfare is one of the very final bottom considerations a lot of times when you bring in a financial market. So you sort of have this combination of finance, which is very pessimistic and bleak in its outlook. And then you have and you mix that with sports fandom. And I just think that's gonna give you a very volatile combination of human emotions.

SPEAKER_02

Sports gambling is just like the peak horribleness.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I was thinking though that one thought I had is that uh in in the topic of polarization, I feel like in the last couple years we've actually seen a depolarization where this we're just like spreading the money around to all kinds of different things. And it's not just MJ and Brady and Mantle anymore. It's like you know we we see like individual player indexes not go up a ton in some instances but like the overall volume of the hobby is up so so much, you know, like a lot of these like base cards are down but then how is it that the entire hobby is up so much CL50 is not pacing with like the overall spend in the hobby because people are buying new players or they're moving into new products or new categories.

SPEAKER_03

So I feel like it's actually doing the opposite a bit nice a zag I I like Brendan Ryan here says a negative and a negative might equal positive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah maybe maybe I think we've talked about it on the show before but it's been a while so let me remind everyone um the hobby for a lot of people is an escape from the real world. Like this is where they go to talk sports to look at cards to buy stuff to not think about politics to not think about you know family drama of work issues and everything else that goes on in the day to day um so I don't think that I I think that perhaps some of that frustration in everyday life bleeds into the hobby but there's a significant chunk of people who are literally here as an escape and they don't care about any of this shit that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02

And then the the corporate side of the hobby is coming into it from the exact opposite perspective where they're only coming into it to profit and only coming into it to learn the personas of all the consumers and figure out what they're spending and how to maximize the dollar and they're not even thinking about any of that stuff you just said. That's that's a lot that's been a lot of the like back and forth and friction of this like investor collector thing is that is like I'm here to literally just enjoy myself and collect and you're coming at it with like here's how I can get rich and help you and deploy capital.

SPEAKER_01

It's like ugh yeah which I think like kind of thanks Greg um Greg says I've got to say Christina is on fire tonight dropping great point after great points um I think that might be why like there there feels like there's more drama is because those two sides are clashing more because people are here like dude shut the fuck up about making money and profiting off of what I'm doing for fun. This is my escape and the other people are like but don't you want money we want money like let us take some of your profit share if you don't care about money.

SPEAKER_03

Like yeah let me let me sprinkle in some puppies and rainbows and flowers and ponies I I just like really quickly went to over to my Instagram page anytime I post a card it's like dozens of very nice comments. Once in a while somebody will fire off something sassy or they'll say something that's like supposed to be funny but it sometimes you can't really sometimes it can seem mean but it's probably not like if you curate a hobby experience and community for yourself that's like positive people then like that's that's mostly the experience you're gonna get yeah I think that's a part of the story here too and that like there's there are going to be people whether it's in the context of the hobby or otherwise but maybe the hobby is a particular crucible that exacerbates the situation but there's always going to be people who are going to be conflict oriented and that's fine too but uh but you know you you you can you can sort of prune your garden. Christina you look like you want to jump in there.

SPEAKER_01

Well yeah I was just gonna say you could drop a fucking one of one rookie in the lake and depending on who follows you they'll all still try and make you feel better about it.

SPEAKER_03

Right right right exactly and there's a lot of give and take uh humility like you having the humility to tell that story and post that begets humility also well to be fair you told me that I had to take pictures of it as it was floating away and then you were like you're gonna post this right kevin Kevin Jane says these questions have improved greatly since AI how do you guys take to the accusation that our question askers are using AI I don't know I don't know about that Kevin I don't think so could be I don't know could be all right um how are we doing here guys 75 minutes in two more two more WTF Frankie podcast says please discuss fanatics being one stone away from having a complete infinity gauntlet by 2031 this question is in reference to FIFA announcing that it'll be shifting from Panini to Fanatics at the end of its current license which would transfer in 2031.

SPEAKER_01

So fanatics MLB NBA NFL FIFA in 2031 they also have some soccer leagues don't they european soccer leagues yeah I don't know I mean I think Champions League or premiere or something like that out of my depth yeah they already have MLB NFL and MBA and WWE they got the stones what's what's FIFA what even is FIFA I don't know FIFA is those the stickers and the cards will come out every four years like it's not yeah um WMBA is still owned by Panini license wise so let's go Panini somehow WMBA is the holdout yeah that's because fanatics forgot that existed fair I don't think so I think I think they would love Caitlin Clark and that whole cohort.

SPEAKER_03

Dude I saw videos of like their stadium's already half full I'm pretty sure that like having a license with WNBA means you can't love Caitlin Clark because like WNBA doesn't so dude I keep getting like tons of commercials for Asia Wilson lately when I'm watching these NBA playoff games I just keep getting this like vintage Asia Wilson commercial so maybe they're trying to finally push the MVP you mean Sam Ebadayou's fiance really yeah he scored 81 points yeah how many 83 83 83 secondmost points ever first most points ever scored on film how many were free throws and how many were defended wait isn't it isn't it the most ever scored on film yeah most ever scored on film that's crazy i okay kevin kevin says that was actually meant as a compliment okay so what one more um I uh I maybe I'll go to this one from collectogram rate tops' line of inserts and how they are doing in the new licensed era and you can take this with as much depth or not as you want because I really don't have a lot of experience with it.

SPEAKER_02

I've seen some of the stuff come up but tops' inserts I can't name even name one yeah jinx jinx Yomi cook someone asked me to fill in the blank on these nuts and you're not letting me do that.

SPEAKER_03

Dude that's I'm that's I wanted to give two serious questions and then that one okay Greg clarifies for his Premier League La Liga Bundesliga are the European leagues FIFA is the governing body that runs the World Cup which is the national tournament not club leagues.

SPEAKER_01

But Cage says that wouldn't be till World Cup 2034 podcast episode today on this let me just let me just also clarify I was not saying that FIFA licensing also like baguettes championship league or premier league. I was saying I think they also have at least one of those that's what I was trying to get across.

SPEAKER_03

Christina's more of a FAFO than an FIFA isn't that right yes all right I I dare you and we will I wish you would we will conclude with this from Insta account habard given all the developments in the hobby during the crossovers hiatus which was nearly three months can Josh sum up these developments by filling in the blank blank D's nuts vacation D's nuts how does this person know that we like the blank D's nuts thing we may have slipped a few D's jokes and dude I remember when D started in Atlantic City and Nick just kept doing it and I thought it was funny every time like he would just like do it 12 times in a row and I'm like this is so good.

SPEAKER_02

Wasn't there a baseball player or something like a card? I'm I'm I'm remembering what do you mean there was like a baseball player a card and his name was like something crazy like this. Yeah it probably is it's like Mark D's or something and we were like do you know about Mark D's maps all right let's pick a title and get out of here Christina I usually have you read these don't I go on we got bumped out of the algal nice timely cavemen doofuses the doofuses or doofy doofy I think it's doofy guys come on it's always been cards my collection is for me what if you just nuked half your brain the friction is where the fun occurs I didn't even catch that when I said it I apologize.

SPEAKER_01

Dang my cards suck and vacation D's nuts.

SPEAKER_03

Alright so you know that we had a question about like when do you panic if your cards go to zero I start to panic when I have to pick one of these this is this is where I started to panic because I have the anxiety of choice because I like all of them and then I want to evaluate each one fairly no this is where we really shine.

SPEAKER_02

This is where we shine nuking half your brain is hilarious.

SPEAKER_03

Yep that was my first it's very topical it's something to yes it is it's something to come back with after three months and just your podcast title is what if you just nuked half your brain it just like makes no sense I do like the friction is where the fun occurs it sounds like a like a witty play on like a silly television show line the friction or like a commercial the friction is where the fun occurs and it's like some doofus that's like you know what you're saying doesn't make sense and they're like it's like some auction house like yeah corporate Super Bowl ad yes exactly like a commercial well Christina what do you like I I don't know if whichever one I'm gonna pick you guys are just gonna pick the opposite anyway.

SPEAKER_02

I know how this goes factor that in so then pick the other one. Yes why would you just tell us that okay let's try it ready I'm gonna pick the friction is where the fun occurred all right half my brain let's go look you put it up there there you go yeah that's what it is what if you just nuke half your brain is she tried to double down on like oh if I do this then they'll pick the same and now she tried to like triple fake us out it's like nope we're actually just gonna do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no I couldn't have thought that and therefore picked the one I didn't actually want to vote for good yeah no I would never do that all right guys nice comeback Puppet Master as long as I get the final set I don't even care how we got there.

SPEAKER_00

I know you don't see you guys in another two and a half months perhaps maybe let's go three and a half months this is too quick in the stuff card ladder is the most respected sports card analytics app on the market we have virtually every card in our system if the card you are looking for ever sold on one of these platforms you can find it using card letter sales history easily find recent comps and get a better estimate what your cards are worth see why card ladder is the most trusted and the most reliable sports card analytics app on the market we know what you want because card ladder was created by collectors for collectors. Join the innovators not the imitators card Ladder constantly innovating