Speaker 1: I was really blessed by a man named Dan Peace.
Speaker 1: He was one of the first kind of older Christians that I knew when I first came to know Christ, and I watched the way that he was so gentle with his wife and it was a super inspiration.
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, that's how that's supposed to look.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: I remember Pastor Don.
Speaker 1: He was one of the first leaders that I saw who just kept taking persecution on the chin.
Speaker 1: He just kept getting punched in the gut and every weekend in his own church, though people were coming against him, he'd stand up and with complete humility he would preach with fire, and it was like nothing was slowing him down.
Speaker 1: I remember when I first was introduced to Pastor Jeff and I saw the way he was so able to love people proactively in the room with a big spirit of winsomeness, and I was like, oh, that's what that is.
Speaker 1: I think I understand Jesus's winsomeness a little bit more.
Speaker 1: When I watched that.
Speaker 1: I remember Pastor Scott.
Speaker 1: He taught me about what it's like to just have a bulldog mentality.
Speaker 1: See, the kingdom of darkness is coming against God's people, and I watched and was inspired by hey, sometimes you just got to put your head down and keep pushing and pushing, and pushing and pushing until you wear the devil out.
Speaker 1: So many other Christian leaders and authorities, I can look to them like man.
Speaker 1: Oh, I get what Jesus is like more by watching you.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't too long and I learned that there was a different kind of a Christian, not the predominant ones, in fact, I haven't met many of these in my life, but there was a kind.
Speaker 1: I'll just call him Mr Zealous but Compromised.
Speaker 1: Mr Zealous but Compromised.
Speaker 1: There were ways that he meant well, but I kept feeling like something is not right here.
Speaker 1: His integrity that he would have lapses of right in front of myself and my friends.
Speaker 1: I'd be like something's he have lapses of right in front of myself and my friends.
Speaker 1: I'm like something's.
Speaker 1: He talks like he's a spiritual authority, but he does this and it's super weird.
Speaker 1: And then the day came when he made a proposition.
Speaker 1: He was 35.
Speaker 1: He made a proposition to an 18 year old young man in our church that was inappropriate and the young man resisted right away.
Speaker 1: But his colors were really shown at that moment and there was a lot of hurt because this guy had been trusted in leadership context and yet now we knew that a lot of it was yeah, I'll say that over here, but over here I want to do this, and that threw me for a loop and it threw a lot of the people I was with for a loop.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you today about church pain.
Speaker 1: I think maybe one of the worst kinds of pain in the whole universe is church pain.
Speaker 1: Maybe family is worse than that, but at least second place has gotta be church pain.
Speaker 1: When we're disillusioned, when we're disappointed, when we watch somebody do something that it's kind of like they're doing the very opposite of what they were supposed to do, we have this sense with God people, with church people.
Speaker 1: I think there's some level to which they're sent by God to help.
Speaker 1: They're sent by God to be an advantage to benefit the people around them, the people whom they're helping or supposed to be helping, and so when that goes haywire, when that goes backwards, we don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: And so we're going to start with a hot take today on church pain, especially church leadership pain, and over the next several weeks we're going to talk a whole lot more about church pain and the different ways that it can hit us.
Speaker 1: And I just want to let everybody know I'm entirely inadequate to even preach this at all.
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, because I'm a leader that has caused pain Like I've.
Speaker 1: I've hurt people, not intentionally, but some of the people I love the most in the world I've ended up hurting the most.
Speaker 1: There's no question.
Speaker 1: If you've been to fierce for any length of time at all, there's probably been something that I've said or some way that maybe I was careless around you or something where you just took a little hurt, got a little hit, and I just want to tell you I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 1: I wish that wasn't true.
Speaker 1: My hands are not clean in this.
Speaker 1: I'm not the leader I should be, and so I recognize that.
Speaker 1: I also recognize that, no matter what I talk about in this message, there's going to be situations and circumstances where it doesn't quite fit my situation, though Carter Admitted Okay, I agree, I can't cover all the bases and I don't even know all the bases.
Speaker 1: So we're just going to look to God's Word and we're going to try to extract some principles that should apply in almost all situations, but you might need the help of the Holy Spirit to nuance it to your situation.
Speaker 1: Does that sound like a deal?
Speaker 1: Man, it's so hard when we have wounds that cause emotional dissonance, especially when it comes to Jesus-y stuff, and people have church hurt around you.
Speaker 1: Whether you know it or not, even if you don't really get this thing, I just want to let you know there's people around you that have it and it's real and it tends to be cumulative.
Speaker 1: So if something goes a little bit wrong and then something else goes wrong and they can kind of handle the first two, but then something else goes wrong, and there's this case being built against not only God, or not only God's people, but eventually God himself, sometimes of here's how God is doing wrong or his people are doing wrong, and I think that, as much as it's horrible that people get hurt at all, I think maybe one of the most insidious plots of church pain and I've watched this happen, not to everybody, but I've watched it, you might have seen it too there's folks who they begin to view God through their pain.
Speaker 1: In other words, they stop starting with God's word, to describe to them who God is and what he's about, and they begin to just collect.
Speaker 1: Well, here's what God allowed people to do to me.
Speaker 1: Therefore, this is who God is, and what we call their theological picture of who God is is a little bit bent, it's a little bit skewed.
Speaker 1: It's not actually correct anymore because it's filtered through their pain and it's totally understandable, but it's still a tragedy and it's something we want to be aware of and oppose.
Speaker 1: And guys, let me just say churches do a really poor job at this, sometimes Like they look the other way Instead of confront something wrong.
Speaker 1: They don't know what to do or they don't want to upset the apple cart and so they just do nothing and people get more hurt from their silence.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people hurt each other unintentionally.
Speaker 1: Sometimes even leaders do stuff wrong that they didn't mean necessarily to do, but it still ends up hurting people.
Speaker 1: An example of this is right there in the Bible, in Galatians, chapter two.
Speaker 1: The apostle Peter okay, so like Jesus is like tight friend the apostle Peter.
Speaker 1: He begins to stand off from the Gentile Christians because he's like well, we Jews he wouldn't say it out loud, but you know, we're a little bit more pure and so we're going to sit over here and eat over here.
Speaker 1: And Paul comes up to Peter and says bro, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: He confronts him right in front of everybody.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to say that these guys are second class Christians.
Speaker 1: Now could you imagine if you knew Peter and it was Peter.
Speaker 1: Peter and Peter begins to treat you kind of like you're second class.
Speaker 1: You'd have a hard time not being like well golly, I guess I am second class.
Speaker 1: If Peter thinks I'm second class, then I must be second class.
Speaker 1: Thank God Paul got in there and says bro, you don't even know what you're doing, but you're hurting people and you need to stop.
Speaker 1: But we can probably see too, like Peter probably didn't mean to do that, he was just reacting out of his own flesh, and so we really need the spirit of God's help to see how would he apply this to us and to our church?
Speaker 1: Because folks, I know that many think that Fierce is a fantastic church and I think so too.
Speaker 1: But there's no church with clean hands.
Speaker 1: We've hurt people unintentionally, somebody somewhere today maybe even hurt somebody, and we need to know we're the same kind of sinner as everybody else and we're prone If we're not constantly prayerfully on guard, we will hurt, we'll contribute to the hurt rather than take it away.
Speaker 1: But let's even just say on an individual basis we're all prone sometimes, even if it's just through carelessness or neglect to just under love people in a way that would have been really, really appropriate, and they even noticed it missing and it's messing with, perhaps, their view of God.
Speaker 1: So we're going to go to a passage in scripture.
Speaker 1: It is 586 BC.
Speaker 1: Jerusalem has fallen.
Speaker 1: God has kicked his own people into a timeout.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that?
Speaker 1: So this is what they call the exile.
Speaker 1: God judged his people just like he told them he would do this hundreds of years earlier.
Speaker 1: He said guys, if you stop following me, you go the ways of the nations around you.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a timeout.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put you in a whole nother land.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have people come in and grab you and pull you into their land and you're going to have a 70-year timeout.
Speaker 1: And some, who would even maybe believe that 70 years was going to come someday, they're like, yeah, but I'm going to be dead by then anyway, and so they're going to die in exile.
Speaker 1: The chosen people of God are in exile and they're beginning to wonder why, why did you do this?
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 1: Where do we go off track?
Speaker 1: And the prophet Ezekiel, speaking for God, says let me tell you why this is.
Speaker 1: It's because of your previous leaders and your previous people, including you.
Speaker 1: First, your leaders completely abandoned my ways the three Kings, leading up to the exile.
Speaker 1: They even got a hold of God's law and there's great revival in the land and then they just said, ah, forget about it.
Speaker 1: And they went the ways of the nations around them, which were incredibly dark, and they pursued evil ways and they said, ah God, we had your law, but we don't care about it, let's just get rid of it.
Speaker 1: But they didn't only do that, because when you embrace darkness, you begin to act dark.
Speaker 1: They exploited the very people of God that they were sent to lead and help and heal.
Speaker 1: And so Ezekiel's telling them guys, your leaders completely abandoned me and they did the opposite of what leaders should do and they exploited the people they serve themselves.
Speaker 1: Now, after this passage he's going to talk about, and also the flock followed their lead and also did all kinds of crazy evil and next week we're going to talk about, while leaders are the most culpable, there's also just individuals that accidentally or maybe purposely hurt one another.
Speaker 1: But we're going to start with the leaders because that's more appropriate.
Speaker 1: Let's listen to what the prophet says Now, remember, this is to a people that this judgment has already happened to them.
Speaker 1: So I don't want you to hear this like.
Speaker 1: This is what God says to every leader that's ever like disappointed you?
Speaker 1: He's not.
Speaker 1: God is not saying this necessarily to them.
Speaker 1: We're going to take principles from this prophecy and we're going to apply it to our current situations, agreed.
Speaker 1: Then this message came to me from the Lord, son of man prophesy against the shepherds, the leaders of Israel.
Speaker 1: Give them this message from the sovereign Lord.
Speaker 1: What sorrow awaits you, shepherds, who feed yourselves instead of your flocks?
Speaker 1: Shouldn't shepherds feed their sheep?
Speaker 1: You drink the milk, wear the wool, butcher the best animals, but you let your flocks starve.
Speaker 1: God says you're making the first leadership mistake.
Speaker 1: You think the people are for you rather than you are for the people.
Speaker 1: You are taking advantage.
Speaker 1: You're getting all the goods, but you're not caring about them.
Speaker 1: You have not taken care of the weak, you've not tended the sick or bound up the injured.
Speaker 1: You've not gone looking for those who wandered away and are lost, meaning you didn't strengthen them, you didn't heal them, you didn't try away and are lost, meaning you didn't strengthen them, you didn't heal them, you didn't try to put them back together, you didn't go out searching.
Speaker 1: Therefore, verse five.
Speaker 1: So my sheep have been scattered, without a shepherd and they're easy prey for any wild animal.
Speaker 1: They've wandered through all the mountains and all the hills and across the face of the earth, yet no one has gone to search for them.
Speaker 1: He's got a double meaning there.
Speaker 1: On one level, they've been exiled, so they've been put out across the earth.
Speaker 1: They're in a whole different land.
Speaker 1: But also it was their sin.
Speaker 1: Their sin causes them to wander and opens up to what we call the wild beasts.
Speaker 1: The destructiveness of sin is eating away at their lives, and when godly leadership forsakes its primary cause, the people that would follow.
Speaker 1: They don't only get hurt, they get into dark places they shouldn't have been going and their spiritual enemy chews them up.
Speaker 1: And they've even got an alibi for it, because my leader hurt me.
Speaker 1: So it's okay to embrace this darkness.
Speaker 1: Therefore, you, shepherds, hear the word of the Lord.
Speaker 1: As surely as I live, says the sovereign Lord, you abandoned my flock and left them to be attacked by every wild animal, and though you were my shepherds, you didn't search for my sheep when they were lost.
Speaker 1: You took care of yourselves and left the sheep to starve.
Speaker 1: Therefore, you, shepherds, hear the word of the Lord.
Speaker 1: This is what the sovereign Lord says.
Speaker 1: I now consider these shepherds my enemies and I will hold them responsible for what has happened to my flock.
Speaker 1: I will take away their rights to feed the flock, I will stop them from feeding themselves and I will rescue my flock from their mouths.
Speaker 1: The sheep will no longer be their prey.
Speaker 1: Yikes, yikes.
Speaker 1: Now he's talking.
Speaker 1: Remember the prophet's talking about.
Speaker 1: This is why you're here.
Speaker 1: This is why you guys are in exile, because your leaders did this and I took away even their opportunity to be your leaders and take advantage of you, my friends.
Speaker 1: So what do we need to hear?
Speaker 1: Because God's leaders were sent, whatever kind of leaders they are maybe it's a church leader, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a coach, maybe it's a church leader, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a coach, maybe it's a small group leader, anybody that's been put in some version of authority to help people, because God put them there to benefit those who would follow them.
Speaker 1: When they forsake that way, it goes real dark, real fast, and God says I don't agree with this and I am against it.
Speaker 1: Three consolations about corrupt leaders that we need to know.
Speaker 1: Three consolations about corrupt leaders.
Speaker 1: Number one God grieves with those who've been hurt by corrupt leaders.
Speaker 1: God grieves, god grieves.
Speaker 1: Can we own that today, like God is heartbroken about it, and we hear that right in the text.
Speaker 1: They've been scattered, without a shepherd.
Speaker 1: They're easy prey for any wild animal.
Speaker 1: No one went and searched for them.
Speaker 1: You know, I've got five kids and when they were all young, sometimes we'd hire a babysitter and the babysitter would come over.
Speaker 1: Kenzie and I would go out at night and if we would have ever come home and looking for our five kids, only found the babysitter and said, hey, where are the kids?
Speaker 1: And the babysitter just said, oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Not only would we be mad that they didn't know, we'd be fuming that they didn't go try to find out.
Speaker 1: You didn't go look for them, meaning my kids are no longer here and it's your fault.
Speaker 1: You were in charge.
Speaker 1: You can hear God's emotional exasperation.
Speaker 1: He does not like this.
Speaker 1: This is not what God wanted.
Speaker 1: God isn't happy about it because he wanted them healthy and safe and protected and feeling loved.
Speaker 1: That's what he wanted.
Speaker 1: So can I just let you know if you've been hurt by a leader and many of us have, if you've been hurt by a leader, I'm sorry and I'm grieving with you and we as a church are grieving with you.
Speaker 1: We don't think it's okay, we don't think it's right.
Speaker 1: We know there's always different circumstances, but we just know God is grieving and we agree with God.
Speaker 1: Such things should not happen and we're sad about it.
Speaker 1: Maybe for you there was a youth pastor and they listened to your doubts and confusions for a moment and then they just kind of shut you down and they almost made you feel like, well, those are silly questions and so you're really not a very deep and spiritual person.
Speaker 1: So I'll just give you kind of like a deal with this answer.
Speaker 1: I would encourage you, don't let that be your impression of God.
Speaker 1: We need to take our pains and our doubts and our confusions, and God loves them.
Speaker 1: He loves them.
Speaker 1: That's who he is.
Speaker 1: He wants to know them, he wants to talk about them.
Speaker 1: Maybe your leader told you to be quiet about something that you knew was wrong, and you're pretty sure they knew it was wrong.
Speaker 1: And now you're left asking the question is God okay with this?
Speaker 1: Like, does God want me to be quiet Because they're the leader and they're speaking for God, maybe, and so does God want me to just like protect people who are doing evil?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you for sure, no, he does not.
Speaker 1: No, he wants transparency, he wants it all out in the open.
Speaker 1: Maybe you were betrayed by a pastor or a leader or some other kind of leader, and they were, they owned it.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, it was bad, but it was.
Speaker 1: It was kind of really bad, and they made it like it's no big deal.
Speaker 1: They're like, ah, forgiveness, but there's something missing there and you can't know their heart for sure.
Speaker 1: But it feels like they're just like playing the cross card, like, ah, covered by the blood, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1: No, but maybe it hurt people though.
Speaker 1: Like, maybe there's not enough, like sitting in that and thinking about, maybe I should think about how to not do that again.
Speaker 1: Or maybe they just said something, maybe offhanded, maybe on purpose, but they said something that left you feeling like you were dismissed or you weren't important or you weren't enough, and so now it's really hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to have their words ringing in your ears and not connect those to what God says about you, because they were supposed to represent God and you know that's not what God says.
Speaker 1: But a part of you wonders am I just like?
Speaker 1: Am I just dumb, like am I just the only one that doesn't get it?
Speaker 1: Is everyone else like figuring this out, and not me?
Speaker 1: So if that's you, I just want to speak to you.
Speaker 1: You know this God is not the leader who abandoned you.
Speaker 1: He's not the leader who mistreated you.
Speaker 1: God is not the leader who misjudged you.
Speaker 1: He's not the leader that overtook you.
Speaker 1: He's not the leader that pushed you.
Speaker 1: He's not the leader that was abrasive with you.
Speaker 1: You are the apple of God's eye.
Speaker 1: You're the heart of his heart.
Speaker 1: You're the one he'd spill all of his blood again for.
Speaker 1: He's mad in love with you.
Speaker 1: Maybe you were one of the ones who you know.
Speaker 1: You just kept pushing it and the whole church was like this is all for Jesus, let's do it all for Jesus.
Speaker 1: But you kept pushing and pushing, way beyond what was appropriate and way beyond to where you totally just burnt out.
Speaker 1: And I just want to remind you, dude, god values your heart a whole lot more than your output.
Speaker 1: Whoever was demonstrating that or modeling that, god didn't want you to pick that up.
Speaker 1: God's all about you.
Speaker 1: It's cool that you get to do stuff for him, but he doesn't need you to do anything for him, for you to stay in his favor because of the cross of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Three consolations about corrupt leaders.
Speaker 1: Number one God grieves with those who have been hurt by corrupt leaders.
Speaker 1: Number two God warns harsh, selfish and negligent leaders.
Speaker 1: He warns them because he wanted them to do something for him.
Speaker 1: He wanted them.
Speaker 1: What is God asking leaders to do?
Speaker 1: He's asking them are you a leader?
Speaker 1: He's asking you this If you're a leader of anything that has to do with representing God in any way to anybody, this is what he's asking of you.
Speaker 1: He's saying I want you, in partnership with the Holy Spirit and informed by the word of God, I want you to teach and model my ways to people, and I want you to do it with tenderness.
Speaker 1: I want you to do it in such a way that they feel the warmth of God's heart most of the time.
Speaker 1: It's not that God's never firm, and certainly situations sometimes call for a little bit of firmness, but for the most part, 99% of the time, the heart of God is just tender, it's just warm.
Speaker 1: And that's what God was asking these leaders to do, and that's what he's asking us to do.
Speaker 1: And he says what sorrow awaits you.
Speaker 1: He said to these shepherds sorrow had already overtaken them.
Speaker 1: They'd lost their job.
Speaker 1: But there's a New Testament kind of sequel to this and honestly, yo, it's far worse.
Speaker 1: It's far worse than losing your job.
Speaker 1: Jesus says, speaking to the religious leaders of his day, about the little folks who or not, they weren't small in size, but they had childlike faith.
Speaker 1: And Jesus says this to them.
Speaker 1: He says if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and drown in the depths of the sea.
Speaker 1: Think about if you can picture what a millstone is giant stone wheel used for grinding grain down.
Speaker 1: Now imagine like a cord attached to that in your neck and toss that in the ocean.
Speaker 1: And Jesus says that's a better day than the day you're going to have and it's that inescapable.
Speaker 1: I don't take kindly to people running roughshod over my people when they just don't care about them.
Speaker 1: Maybe for you, someone was just very harsh.
Speaker 1: That's what these leaders were.
Speaker 1: Instead, you've ruled them with harshness and cruelty.
Speaker 1: And, my friends, this is where we get into the topic of spiritual abuse.
Speaker 1: And it's real.
Speaker 1: And let me just say teaching people the Bible is totally right, like we are supposed to.
Speaker 1: That's the thing we're supposed to do.
Speaker 1: We're supposed to show people the truth of God, the ways of God, but when we do that in such a way that manipulates people, that makes them feel like they don't have any options, that makes them feel ashamed.
Speaker 1: When we do that and we say God says, and we do it just to shut somebody down, that's abuse, yo, that's not the way Jesus wants that wielded.
Speaker 1: When we are somehow communicated like I've seen this in churches some of you may have seen this when it is somehow communicated, dude, if you're not bought in 100% to the pastor's vision or the leader's vision, you don't have as much favor as everybody else.
Speaker 1: Whack, that's whack.
Speaker 1: That's not Bible at all.
Speaker 1: That's psycho.
Speaker 1: That's what that is.
Speaker 1: You don't need to worry anything about that.
Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about I have to prove my loyalty to leaders.
Speaker 1: You do not.
Speaker 1: No, you do not.
Speaker 1: All you need is Jesus.
Speaker 1: Not everyone's going to like what you do, and sometimes it's going to be a leader, and what you and I need to do is keep a clear conscience before heaven.
Speaker 1: That's what we need.
Speaker 1: We're going to see.
Speaker 1: We need to honor leaders, but we're not like jumping through hoops for people to try to keep their favor.
Speaker 1: You already have the favor of the most important person in the universe.
Speaker 1: His name is Jesus Christ and you can't lose it.
Speaker 1: Oh, come on somebody.
Speaker 1: This is a good time for amens.
Speaker 1: I know you people online are saying amen, I can hear you through the camera.
Speaker 1: Let's hope that some of that trickles into the room and folks can jump in with some amens as well.
Speaker 1: So maybe here's what should have happened.
Speaker 1: They should have been gentle with God's word.
Speaker 1: It should have been an invitation.
Speaker 1: It should have been a you can do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it together Instead of a you suck because you're not doing this better.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were just selfish.
Speaker 1: That's what these leaders were doing.
Speaker 1: They were using, they were exploiting the people and what they should have been doing.
Speaker 1: What a leaders were doing.
Speaker 1: They were using, they were exploiting the people and what they should have been doing what a Jesus-y leader does, and they're aiming at it.
Speaker 1: They don't get it perfect, but they're aiming at it.
Speaker 1: They're saying I'm going to sacrifice self for the sake of those who follow me.
Speaker 1: I don't need them to sacrifice for me.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: There's a couple that I know that goes to this church and I've seen them since 2009 sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice for the people of God.
Speaker 1: And guys they go without.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're often the last ones there.
Speaker 1: Their last name rhymes with Badkins and I got to tell you they're legit dude.
Speaker 1: I've known them a long time and they're the real doggone thing and they do this.
Speaker 1: They sacrifice self for the sake of the people of God all the time, and what you ought to do is you ought to get on your knees and thank God that you're exposed to such people, because they glow.
Speaker 1: They are stars in the firmament, man, thank God.
Speaker 1: But maybe you had somebody that was negligent.
Speaker 1: That's what these shepherds were.
Speaker 1: They were negligent and they should have been intentional and they were negligent, especially with God's word.
Speaker 1: Maybe they gave you.
Speaker 1: They stood up and they said some kind of a speech, but the truth is dude.
Speaker 1: It wasn't healing anybody.
Speaker 1: It wasn't binding up the broken, because it wasn't God's word.
Speaker 1: It was just like a poem or something like that or stuff off the top of their head or some kind of reasoning that they got to that was kind of had to do with God, but it wasn't the good milk and power and meat of God's word, because God's word is what the sheep were supposed to get.
Speaker 1: It was what would heal them, it was what would make them not sick.
Speaker 1: But, god's word, not in a way that binds people up so that they can't move and have no freedom.
Speaker 1: No God's word that sets them free.
Speaker 1: There's a young woman named Eva and she grew up in a Christian home.
Speaker 1: But that Christian home was characterized by you must and you have to, and God's a little bit mad at you all the time and if you don't just really watch yourself, you're going to step out of his will and boom into judgment.
Speaker 1: And Eva tried to endure, she tried to persevere, but then as she grew up, she would just see the way that her parents and kind of their crew they were so judgmental of everybody around, every other group and even people that, like these people, are way more gentle and nice than you, but you still think you're better than them.
Speaker 1: And she couldn't take it.
Speaker 1: And after a while she just walked away and she never went back to church.
Speaker 1: Now she would tell you she's still figuring out Jesus, but she's not going back to church anytime soon.
Speaker 1: Because she wasn't bound up with the truth of God's word.
Speaker 1: She was bound up with a shadow, a religious system that didn't lead her directly to the person, the warm smile of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: It was all secondhand, thirdhand, fourthhand.
Speaker 1: We think maybe something like this is what God thinks A shepherd wants to intentionally take your hand and put it in Jesus' hand and says I'll help if I can, but you don't even need me now.
Speaker 1: You got Jesus.
Speaker 1: If you got Jesus, you got everyone you need.
Speaker 1: They want to restore when you've done something wrong.
Speaker 1: They'll come for you even if you don't know what to do and you're a little bit don't know how to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Kenzie and I were coming home in our early twenties and we're moving back to the area.
Speaker 1: We'd been through a church split and I know I was, maybe Kenzie was.
Speaker 1: We're just feeling a little bit defeated.
Speaker 1: We're feeling like, wow, like we spent all this time, we spent all this energy and it just I feel like it just fell apart and probably I'm worthless.
Speaker 1: Probably I was so stupid to think I would ever use me.
Speaker 1: How dumb that was.
Speaker 1: And we had some mentors, some folks who were in ministry and it was doing phenomenal.
Speaker 1: They had a giant ministry compared to what we could understand, but they saw us and they asked the question I wonder what they need right now.
Speaker 1: And so they invited us along.
Speaker 1: They said why don't you come with us?
Speaker 1: We need your help to lead this thing.
Speaker 1: They didn't need our help at all.
Speaker 1: They didn't need our help at all, but they knew what did we need?
Speaker 1: Well, we probably needed hope that hey, don't forget that God actually did call you and, even if you're being corrected about some stuff, god really called you and God could really use you, if God really called you and God could really use you.
Speaker 1: But we needed something else.
Speaker 1: What we needed was we needed healthy transmission of the real way of beautiful, kind Jesus.
Speaker 1: We'd seen a lot of pain.
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of hurt, we've seen a lot of fighting, we've seen a lot of, and we needed someone to just take our hands and say let me show you that Jesus is really nice and he's really powerful and he's really strong and he can really get you from where you are to where you're going.
Speaker 1: So, um, let's go through a couple of categories.
Speaker 1: If you've had a good shepherd, or two or three, can I just encourage you.
Speaker 1: It is appropriate to thank God for that.
Speaker 1: Like, the Bible isn't down on leaders, man, it's very for them as long as they're doing things God's way.
Speaker 1: You don't have it in your notes, but 1 Thessalonians 5, 12 says brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord's work.
Speaker 1: They work hard among you, use spiritual guidance, show them great respect and wholehearted love because of their work.
Speaker 1: God's not against leaders, he's just for them doing things the Jesus way.
Speaker 1: Now I want to give you freedom.
Speaker 1: It is okay to give leaders feedback, just so you know you don't be like I can't approach the woman of God because she's so special.
Speaker 1: Okay, now, that may be true in some context, but it's not true here.
Speaker 1: You can give leaders feedback.
Speaker 1: Can I encourage you?
Speaker 1: I'm here every every Sunday and I'm down here, and I'm down here with my wife because we want to be with you and if you want to talk, we're right here.
Speaker 1: If you want to come talk just about something, when you've got some sticky hard feedback for me, do me a favor, sit on it a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Make sure it's really God okay, because you can be wrong, all right.
Speaker 1: But then bring it and give me a couple weeks in the crock pot, all right, let me put that thing.
Speaker 1: Let's see if that's God okay, because most of us, you know this If someone brings you some feedback and it's a little bit hard to take, immediately you want to just defend yourself.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, let me tell you why.
Speaker 1: And that's actually not very helpful spiritually, and so give me a few weeks, let.
Speaker 1: Not very helpful spiritually, and so give me a few weeks.
Speaker 1: Let me just say, hey, maybe let's put that in the crock pot, turn that thing on Jesus, let's watch that for a week or two.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 1: Because it takes time to hear from God, dude.
Speaker 1: It takes time.
Speaker 1: It takes time to hear from God.
Speaker 1: It's hard to hear from God fast.
Speaker 1: What if, carter, I'm under a bad leader?
Speaker 1: Great question, okay, if you're under a bad leader, that can mean a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: So let's just define levels of bad, all right, because over here, maybe on this side of the scale there is I heard them swear once.
Speaker 1: That's not great, okay, true, that's not ideal, but then, as you keep moving across the spectrum, it might be.
Speaker 1: I saw them lose their crap on somebody and totally chew them out, and they didn't feel bad about it and it kind of seems like something that they do.
Speaker 1: And then there's places all the way over here where they are a cad, they are a villain, they are a seductress, like they are someone who's trying to take advantage actively of people.
Speaker 1: These are real bad.
Speaker 1: Let me just talk about this category for a second.
Speaker 1: Okay, it is totally appropriate.
Speaker 1: When someone is in that space, you don't need to protect them.
Speaker 1: You can go to the elders, whoever's over them in the Lord.
Speaker 1: You can go to them.
Speaker 1: If it's a police thing, dude, call the police.
Speaker 1: The police are there, so they're on purpose, like you can.
Speaker 1: Just, if it's illegal, if it's wrong, you just call the police now.
Speaker 1: Just do it now, like do it today, because that stuff has to be dealt with.
Speaker 1: But if you're under a bad leader and they're somewhere in this space, like between here and here, okay, I just want to give you a couple thoughts.
Speaker 1: One pray for understanding God.
Speaker 1: Am I judging their heart?
Speaker 1: Am I maybe wrong about what's happening?
Speaker 1: Because that is possible.
Speaker 1: Maybe I've just got a suspicious heart and I'm judging them because I saw somebody else do it.
Speaker 1: So we bring that to prayer.
Speaker 1: That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: But also pray for repentance.
Speaker 1: See, god can grant us repentance.
Speaker 1: That means they start to feel bad about it and feel like Jesus doesn't think it's right to such a degree that they get on their knees and say, god, this is wrong and I shouldn't be doing this.
Speaker 1: That's a really honoring way to try to help them.
Speaker 1: Pray that they get with repentance.
Speaker 1: Here's the next level.
Speaker 1: You can go to pray for exposure If they're really getting into some dark stuff.
Speaker 1: God, I think it's true, according to your word, that if you expose their sin, that will be healthy for them, that'll be good for them.
Speaker 1: Then they'll get rid of it.
Speaker 1: Then they'll get on their knees and they'll allow you to transform them into a new and improved version of who they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you you always have permission.
Speaker 1: If you ever saw me do something super crazy, evil, you can just go to the elders and I tell you about our elders.
Speaker 1: Man, I know that there's systems, there's church systems, where elders are all kind of like, yes, people, and they just do whatever the leader says.
Speaker 1: That's not how it is at our church.
Speaker 1: Our elders they're all dope dudes, but they can fire me without recourse, like they can just if they think I'm a threat to somebody, you're fired, and now we're going to deal with all this stuff.
Speaker 1: They can do that instantly.
Speaker 1: So I just want you to know they've got real teeth.
Speaker 1: You can go to them and say I've got a concern about X, y or Z, and that's totally appropriate, what we want.
Speaker 1: If you're under a bad leader, you want them to either repent or you want them to be removed or, worst case scenario, you want to remove yourself because they won't be removed.
Speaker 1: And guys, this is a real thing.
Speaker 1: There comes a time when you should.
Speaker 1: The smartest thing for you to do is remove yourself, get out from under that thing.
Speaker 1: There's two folks that have gone to our church and at different times they left.
Speaker 1: They were moving, they're just job stuff.
Speaker 1: They didn't leave with us on bad terms, but in both cases they went to a church where they got in that context, in that environment, and they instantly could see oh, the group I'm a part of, the leadership here, is definitely compromised.
Speaker 1: It's definitely death speaking.
Speaker 1: It's definitely shut up and sit down and just be quiet and maybe we'll use you.
Speaker 1: It's that kind of an environment and here's the thinking that they had.
Speaker 1: I'll stick around, partly because I want God to use me, maybe, but also because I want to be a powerful influence on them.
Speaker 1: I've got some health, so I want to show them how to be healthy.
Speaker 1: Dude, if that doesn't happen in 20 minutes, you should get out of there.
Speaker 1: And here's why Because the best you is in functional community, not dysfunctional community, the best you is not in dysfunctional community.
Speaker 1: You're going to help them way more by just feeling like, hey, man, I love you, I can't me, and Jesus ain't cool with this.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to step out and you can take them to coffee, you can talk about it to them later, but God wants you to keep your integrity so that he can speak to you, so that you don't.
Speaker 1: Because here's what happened to both individuals they kept enduring it and kept enduring it and kept enduring it until they got pretty jaded themselves, because they're so used to watching lines be crossed and watching people be hurt that they just began to turn their hearts toward God's people in general.
Speaker 1: And they know it and they're aware of it and they're trying to turn away from it.
Speaker 1: But it's my theory as a pastor it was because they refused to get away from it that their hearts got so wounded, and now it's gonna take some time to heal.
Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't true, guys.
Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't true, but you're my church, and so I got to tell you the truth.
Speaker 1: There are bad leaders in the church.
Speaker 1: I know that when you come to church you're like I just want church to be awesome.
Speaker 1: This is my dream.
Speaker 1: The people are so nice.
Speaker 1: Hopefully that's true, but you've got to know.
Speaker 1: According to the Bible, there are going to be throughout the ages, until Jesus returns.
Speaker 1: There's going to be folks who are leaders but they're not really from God.
Speaker 1: Listen to what Jesus says Matthew 7, 15,.
Speaker 1: Watch out for false prophets.
Speaker 1: They will come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Speaker 1: Guys, they will look legit at first, just like my guy did, mr Zealous but Compromised.
Speaker 1: They'll look legit and in many cases they don't even know that they're wolves.
Speaker 1: I thought when I would see a wolf they'd be like you know, twirling their mustache and have a tall cap on and be like.
Speaker 1: I thought that's what wolves would look like.
Speaker 1: That's not what they look like.
Speaker 1: They often look very charismatic.
Speaker 1: They look very confident and self-assured, and here's what they're doing.
Speaker 1: When we say false prophet, that means it doesn't just mean that they say wrong things.
Speaker 1: Often they're saying the right things, but they're saying it from a wrong heart and a wrong motive and a wrong perspective, and they're doing it to manipulate.
Speaker 1: They're doing it to gain control and manipulate folks.
Speaker 1: So let's just be aware and, dude, have the wisdom to exit when it's time.
Speaker 1: Hey, I've got some good news for you for the final part of the message.
Speaker 1: Are you ready?
Speaker 1: So, at near the end of that little part of the passage, ezekiel, speaking for God, says this and I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them, and he shall feed them, and he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
Speaker 1: And when he says David, david is actually already dead.
Speaker 1: This David, it's about Jesus.
Speaker 1: It's a type of Jesus, it's a little picture that is someday going to grow up and to be the big picture, the full-fledged Jesus.
Speaker 1: And God is saying there's going to be someone like David in the fact that his heart is completely forgotten.
Speaker 1: He's a warrior like David, but he's going to be even better.
Speaker 1: It is the Messiah.
Speaker 1: This is a messianic prophecy.
Speaker 1: Verse 24, and I, the Lord, will be their God and my servant David shall be prince among them.
Speaker 1: I, the Lord, have spoken.
Speaker 1: So here's number three.
Speaker 1: God sent a perfect shepherd to heal and feed his flock.
Speaker 1: God sent a perfect shepherd and Jesus admits it right in John, chapter 10.
Speaker 1: He says hey, just so everybody's clear, remember what Ezekiel said.
Speaker 1: Well, I just want you to know.
Speaker 1: It's me, I am the good shepherd.
Speaker 1: The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Speaker 1: He was a hired hand and not a shepherd who is not the owner of the sheep, sees wolf coming and leaves the sheep and fleas and the wolf snatches and scatters them because he's a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep.
Speaker 1: I'm the good shepherd.
Speaker 1: I know my own and my own know me, my own know me and the ones that know him are harder to trick.
Speaker 1: The more they know him, the harder they are to trick, even as the father knows me and I know the father and I lay my life down for the sheep.
Speaker 1: He was sent.
Speaker 1: Now check it out so good.
Speaker 1: Jesus was sent my friend, in the midst of all your pain, in the midst of everything that someone has done to you.
Speaker 1: Jesus, he came looking for you personally.
Speaker 1: He came for you and he didn't send somebody else, he didn't send some under shepherd, he didn't send an angel, he came for you himself Because, like the only one who's gonna do the right job Jesus is like is me.
Speaker 1: I'll be the shepherd that you need.
Speaker 1: I'll be the one that comes to your rescue and he will do what Remember it said in verse 23, he will feed the sheep.
Speaker 1: He'll feed the sheep.
Speaker 1: He'll give the sheep the thing they actually need they need living word of God from his lips.
Speaker 1: Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Speaker 1: He won't just say, he won't point at a Bible and say go read that.
Speaker 1: He'll say let's go to the Bible and I'm going to speak living words, fresh manna to you about you, about your soul, about your situations, and I will be your leader myself.
Speaker 1: Jesus says Now you'll still have leaders and you can see what they know and see if it's helpful.
Speaker 1: If it agrees with this book and if it does, that's great.
Speaker 1: But never again should you attach yourself completely to a human.
Speaker 1: Always attach yourself to the good shepherd and his good words, because they will not fail.
Speaker 1: Heaven and earth will pass away and his words will never pass away.
Speaker 1: He will lead you through his word and his spirit.
Speaker 1: And, my friends, I wish he wasn't the only one you can really trust, but really he is.
Speaker 1: We can't even trust ourselves, dude, much less somebody else.
Speaker 1: Jesus alone is the good shepherd worthy of trust.
Speaker 1: We're getting there.
Speaker 1: We're almost there.
Speaker 1: Hopefully this message will be worth it.
Speaker 1: Let's pause right there, because I want to talk about how those who maybe have, who have hurt people, how do they get healing in Jesus?
Speaker 1: He feeds and heals them.
Speaker 1: What about those of us who maybe did hurt some people?
Speaker 1: I've hurt people.
Speaker 1: I know a little bit about this.
Speaker 1: I don't know every situation, but I can just tell you what I'm pretty sure is biblical and works.
Speaker 1: First, dude, you just gotta make it right.
Speaker 1: If it's possible, if you can get ahold of that person at all, make it right in humility.
Speaker 1: Don't make excuses for it.
Speaker 1: And here's a catch you might lose the person.
Speaker 1: They might be like yeah, go to hell, I don't ever want to deal with you again.
Speaker 1: They might say that it's worth the risk.
Speaker 1: Honestly, dude, if you're being convicted about this, you owe it to them to do that, at the very least, even if they never do want to see you again.
Speaker 1: But don't be so much worried about the consequence of losing them.
Speaker 1: Be more like do the soul work?
Speaker 1: I'm brokenhearted that I hurt God in this way and hurt one of his precious little sheep.
Speaker 1: Like, do that, work, man, get on your knees and fast and pray until you get that gunk out of you, until you can stand up and say I'm a moron and I've done everything that I possibly can to make this thing right and I stand justified in Christ.
Speaker 1: But go, go, go and don't stop and like do it this week, don't wait, just do it, you'll be free, just do it.
Speaker 1: What about shepherds, leaders, folks in charge who want to avoid these kinds of mistakes?
Speaker 1: I got some, oh man, I got some great advice.
Speaker 1: This is my best leadership advice.
Speaker 1: Okay, you ready, don't try to lead without Jesus.
Speaker 1: Don't try to lead without Jesus.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 1: Because these folks in the Old Testament, the folks that Ezekiel was primarily talking to, they didn't have the Holy Spirit, they didn't have the person of Jesus who would talk to them through God's very living word.
Speaker 1: They didn't have that.
Speaker 1: But you and I do, and if we do, why wouldn't we take advantage of it, god, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I can just listen to you and then do what you say and, primarily, that will bless my leadership.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so don't try to lead on your gifts, don't try to lead on your charisma.
Speaker 1: Try to lead by listening to Jesus.
Speaker 1: That is the way.
Speaker 1: That's the way.
Speaker 1: Now, what about if I've been hurt by shepherds?
Speaker 1: Here, real quick.
Speaker 1: This will not cover it all, but I just want to give some tips.
Speaker 1: First, you got to ask.
Speaker 1: You got to have the courage to ask Jesus for healing.
Speaker 1: It's someone else's fault, probably, that you got hurt.
Speaker 1: For healing, it's someone else's fault, probably that you got hurt.
Speaker 1: I wish that they were going to come along someday and just like make you heal.
Speaker 1: They're probably not.
Speaker 1: And even if they wanted to, they probably couldn't.
Speaker 1: Jesus alone can heal you and as he does, that means you got to own your healing yourself, meaning you're like me and Jesus are getting this.
Speaker 1: I don't care if anyone else gets it, we're getting this.
Speaker 1: And that means you're going to patiently tell him your story, tell him how you're hurt, tell him what went wrong, and you're going to keep reviewing this.
Speaker 1: And you're going to keep coming to him day after day and say this hurt me.
Speaker 1: What do you say?
Speaker 1: What do you say about this?
Speaker 1: What's your consolation?
Speaker 1: You're the judge of all the earth.
Speaker 1: What up all the earth?
Speaker 1: What do you say about this?
Speaker 1: And as you and I do, as you bring him your real pain and your real disappointment, you're going to find that he's going to really heal you as you feed on his word.
Speaker 1: And that's a good segue into when you can open yourself up, even if it's only one person at a time, to other community.
Speaker 1: See, I'd been really hurt and really betrayed, and so I went to my friend, mike.
Speaker 1: I said, mike, I'm just, I'm broken apart, man.
Speaker 1: Here's what happened to me, here's what they did, here's what went wrong and what Mike wisely did.
Speaker 1: He's probably 20, but what he wisely did was he said you know, as I look at the scriptures, I feel like you are Joseph, you're Joseph.
Speaker 1: You were betrayed by your own brothers, you were sold into a situation that you didn't want and God asked you to bear it and to take it and that someday he would use it for his greater glory.
Speaker 1: And, guys, when Mike told me that it helped me contextualize my problem, helped me say, oh well, if I'm like Joseph, that makes sense, because I know the end of the story for Joseph.
Speaker 1: I know that God actually really did use all that trial.
Speaker 1: I know God was with Joseph and God is with me.
Speaker 1: Do you see how my friend made the word of God alive and made it part of my healing.
Speaker 1: That's why you need people too, even if you've got to slowly, very slowly.
Speaker 1: Trust just one person, even if you've got to say, god, would you send me one person who has my best interest in mind, who's maybe an older mentor that doesn't want anything from me and just wants to walk with me and love me and talk to me about the good ways they've seen Jesus overcome tremendous evil.
Speaker 1: And as you do that, maybe the day comes when you decide I'm gonna take a step.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be very prayerful about it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna maybe go with somebody and I am going to try an emotionally healthy church.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just gonna watch online for a while, maybe I'm just gonna be in a small group for a while of three people, because they're the only humans on the planet I trust with my spiritual stuff.
Speaker 1: Not to hurt me, but I'm going to be bold and I'm going to do it Now.
Speaker 1: Listen, fierce, I've just preached a sermon.
Speaker 1: Fierce Church, we are on the line for this.
Speaker 1: Now more than ever, this is a thing in our generation.
Speaker 1: People are very hurt by church and they're talking about it.
Speaker 1: We're on the line now.
Speaker 1: That means we got to crush this.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I hear people say you know, the thing that brought me to fear is I just love how loving the people were.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great thing to say, I think that's awesome, here's the and it's wonderful for you to say.
Speaker 1: But here's the problem.
Speaker 1: That goes wrong in people's minds Once we say that we're like oh good, well, then I can just lean back then, because the people are just loving no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Every day we're on the hook to prove that again.
Speaker 1: Every day, god is bringing us somebody new, somebody who's hurt, somebody who needs the love and affection of Jesus.
Speaker 1: The job is never done.
Speaker 1: We're never off the hook.
Speaker 1: We're on the hook right now to make everybody's day.
Speaker 1: Dude, I don't know what happened to you and I'm sorry that it happened, but I just love you and Jesus loves you, and I don't know how to fix it.
Speaker 1: But we can walk together if you want, and I'll try not to be a jackass Like that's.
Speaker 1: That's the answer.
Speaker 1: I'll try not to mess this up.
Speaker 1: I'll try not to hurt you and if I do, I'll apologize.
Speaker 1: But in each case, we're going to pray that they're looking not to us but to Jesus.
Speaker 1: We're gonna pray that they're looking not to us but to Jesus.
Speaker 1: My friends, god sees and judges corrupt leadership, and Jesus doesn't recoil at your story.
Speaker 1: He draws near to you, says I want you and I want us to walk together to use that tragedy for God's greater purposes and for your blessing.
Speaker 1: So I want to end this day, this sermon, by singing a song.
Speaker 1: Now you can just listen to the song.
Speaker 1: You can do business with God right where you are.
Speaker 1: You can do business with God right where you are online.
Speaker 1: If you're here, you can come down and come to this altar and kneel down if you need to.
Speaker 1: Whatever is natural.
Speaker 1: Maybe you just want to sit there and process some of the stuff that went down for you.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, let this song minister to you or you can just sing it as worship to God, but let's bow our heads and I'll pray us into the song.
Speaker 1: God, I want to thank you that you saw every place that we were hurt and you did not agree with it.
Speaker 1: You weren't for those who hurt us.
Speaker 1: Now we want to ask that somehow, someway, even if it's a long process, would you suck out the poison that is trying to stay in our hearts?
Speaker 1: Would you righten us.
Speaker 1: Would you teach us of your gentleness, teach us of your kindness, teach us of the warm heart of God?
Speaker 1: Answer our questions, help us to specify our doubts and confusions.
Speaker 1: God, I pray for those who that has happened to.
Speaker 1: God, would you just be near them and give them all the grace they need to do whatever the next step is and to keep hope alive.
Speaker 1: God, I pray for this church and all the other churches, but this one especially God.
Speaker 1: I pray for this church and all the other churches, but this one especially God.
Speaker 1: I don't come to you as a leader that has a perfect score.
Speaker 1: I've got an absolutely unperfect score, but I'm asking, on account of Jesus's righteousness God, would you make this a place that is safe and healing for people?
Speaker 1: Would you make people again feel the life flow of God's spirit in a way that is affectionate and slow and caring?
Speaker 1: God, would you do it?
Speaker 1: Do it for our kids, do it for those who come after us?
Speaker 1: God, would you give us a legit, authentic, healed heart that uses what the devil meant for bad in order to glorify your name in the earth and give us patience, years of patience, as we walk that out In Jesus' name, history of Fierce in your life.
Speaker 1: Please consider paying it forward with a financial gift at fiercechurchgive.
Speaker 1: If you want more resources like this, check out all of our channels at YouTube, tiktok and Instagram.
Speaker 1: Check out our podcasts and check out our blog at fiercechurchblog.
Speaker 1: If you haven't already, please consider sharing this to help people you know take their next step.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.