Conversation with Saudi Arabia Expat Francesca

In this episode, US Expat Francesca Fraser talks about her windy road to finding work that is meaningful to her and to the people she serves.  From her beginnings in Miami, she takes us on her journey to Korea, Saudi Arabia, and touring several countries in Africa.   Francesca explores her perspective of living the life you choose with intention, as well as, amplifying the black expat voice across the globe.

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Transcript

 [00:01:38] It would be interesting to know how you to know where you were, where you're from and how you got to your first assignment abroad. 

[00:01:47] Francesca: [00:01:47] Isn't that something that was probably close to 11 years ago, I was working in Miami. I was teaching and I had been teaching at that time I was working [00:02:00] in classrooms. With students that you know, they were on IEP and they, had some special needs. And so the school system, they decided, okay, look, we're going to go to inclusion. We're not going to have the classroom like yours anymore.

[00:02:15] So you have to become a co-teacher. And I was like, okay. I just spent all these years teaching on my own. I'm not interested in being a co-teacher. And I don't like this model that you guys are pushing for inclusion. Like for me, it just didn't make sense. So I started looking for a new job. And then popped up Korea. And I was like, okay, all right, well, let me see what this is about, you know, and it was so easy back then. It was like, okay, you can speak English, come on. Were like, Oh, okay, well she stands up. Right. Whatever. So I went to Korea and. That was it. I was like, Ooh, I liked the feeling of being somewhere new, learning a new language, foods, and even the teaching was a different style of teaching.

[00:03:01] It was a totally different type of classroom so that I enjoyed. And then I met my first husband there 

[00:03:07] Nyra: [00:03:07] Oh your first husband? 

[00:03:10]Francesca: [00:03:10] Yes, I got my first husband there.  He's Nigerian and great guy, but you know how things are, it's like, okay, this is not going to work for us long term. We need to go and find our way to do something else.

[00:03:23] So I stayed in Korea. And I was like, okay, I like this now, but I went into my master's while I was there. I did. So I was like, okay, now it's time for me to get, you know, something that's a little bit more progressive in terms of work and something where I can level up. I had colleagues that went to Oman Saudi, they were in Qatar, they were in all in the middle East and I was like, Ooh, And then that's how I ended up in Saudis, 40, 40 years old.

[00:03:49] I started on my 40th birthday, divorced, ready to rock and roll. And, and I just, and when I was there, I just made it happen. I was like, wow. Then I [00:04:00] started traveling around, going to different places. And then I got the itch to like, okay, I need my forever home because I know it's not going to be in America. Right. And that's what brought me to Africa. Then I was like, okay, let me start on the East coast and work my way down. I went to Ethiopia. I was like, okay, this is nice. I cried like a baby.

[00:04:24] I was so mad, you know, it's like one of those things like, Oh, they took us away from here. You know, like we would have had all of it. I was just, I was so emotional when I went to Ethiopia was just so beautiful, but I was like, what? Something is not, it's just didn't resonate with me, like home, but I like it. i went to Kenya Oh, everything I was ready. Cause, you know, like, okay, this is they're alive. They, everything is hustle and bustle. 

[00:04:54] Nyra: [00:04:54] Very alive. Not lying about that. 

[00:04:58] Francesca: [00:04:58] There was no chill. There was no chill, but it was cool. And then I came here and then I was like, Ooh, this feels good. Let me come back again. Let me come back. I can, I think I've been here five times, five, six times. This time. And so each time I would see something new, I'm like, Oh, okay. There's an opportunity here. There's an opportunity here. Let me finish up in Saudi. And then I'm coming back. And then I met my husband. So I was like, my husband has been

[00:05:35] Nyra: [00:05:35] Yeah, I know that's right yeah

[00:05:38] Francesca: [00:05:38] , yeah. Coasting around, out and about for a minute. 

[00:05:41] Nyra: [00:05:41] Okay. I think that perspective and the fact that you mentioned,  like, I'm 40, because that is, you know, age is such a trigger for a lot of women for a lot of men, but particularly for a lot of women, especially for me, I used to think, Oh, you know, I [00:06:00] have to try to fit in to this idea of being adult adulting. 

[00:06:08] Francesca: [00:06:08] It looks a certain way. You gotta have a house, you gotta have , this, you gotta have it. And I'll tell you during the time when all my friends and getting those big mortgages, I have friends that are stuck up to them. And I'm so glad that, I mean, I am not a homeowner now, and I'm not ashamed to be like, no, I don't want to, but at the same time, I'm not worried about like, okay, well I have to pay that much money for a house that I can barely live in because I have to work 70 hours a week.

[00:06:37] So that's not my, that's not my experience, but that's not what I wanted for myself. But at 40 years old, you know, go into a country where dating is not even legal in Saudi Arabia. My friends, my sister, you don’t get to meet anybody right? I was like, okay, watch

[00:06:59] Nyra: [00:06:59] right. Thank you. 

[00:07:02] Francesca: [00:07:02] Right. Right, exactly. Yeah. That wasn't gonna work. I did go out on a few dates with some Saudi guys there, just culture. Very nice guys, but you could tell that it's not like it's not possible 

[00:07:18] Nyra: [00:07:18] if it's, if it's not, if it's not your, if you can't accept the way of thinking and the ideal lifestyle, right.

[00:07:27] Francesca: [00:07:27] I could probably accept it. But the family. I would never be accepted by the family, you know. Yeah. That's no, that was the big thing is I, you can just tell by the way they talk, and then I went to someone to weddings too, and you see the women there, they're looking for, they're looking for the, the women who would be right for their family.

[00:07:49] So it's not just for him. Right, right. It’s for the family and I wouldn't be. 

[00:07:55] Nyra: [00:07:55] Yeah. Unless, you know, and it, it would take him [00:08:00] to really kind of enforce that and be like, she is right for the family. What school are you working at right now? 

[00:08:07] Francesca: [00:08:07] I actually a lecture for Princeville Tanya university in Saudi Arabia. They're online now. So that's why I can be anywhere.

[00:08:14] Nyra: [00:08:14] Nice. 

[00:08:15] Francesca: [00:08:15] Yeah. I've been teaching in Saudi for. Since, what is it going on five years now? I took one year off and then I just went back this. 

[00:08:24] Nyra: [00:08:24] Okay, so it's the college? 

[00:08:26] Francesca: [00:08:26] Yes. 

[00:08:27]Nyra: [00:08:27] what do you teach at the college?  

[00:08:29] Francesca: [00:08:29] We Teach academic writing, reading skills, everything they need to prepare for their academic work for, because, you know, yeah. They come from high school and they're not really well-prepared to do everything that they need to do, you know, academically. So this is what we do. We get them ready. This is how you write a paper, you know, double space, the right font. No, you can't use that font size citations. Exactly, exactly how to do research and how to do in-text citations, APA style, all of those things.

[00:09:03] Nyra: [00:09:03] So they follow APA. [word not clear]

[00:09:07]Francesca: [00:09:07] You have to excuse the noise. I'm in the lobby of the Marriott hotel, because the WIFI at my guest house is not strong enough. So I didn't want us to have to break up during our meeting and we couldn't go through, so that's why I'm here. No problem. It's Saturday. So, you know, there they go back to turn the volume off. Yeah. Yeah. I came earlier today, and I was like, okay, this is good. It'll be nice and quiet. There I'll have a chance to do my work. And then when we have our meeting, it'll be chill, but I give it about another hour 

[00:09:40] Nyra: [00:09:40] and it's about to be popping you were packing you and your husband. Yes, for packing and y'all were looking for positions and UAE actually was that, 

[00:09:54] Francesca: [00:09:54] yeah, that's true. Actually. He's still there because he's working at a tennis Academy there, [00:10:00] so his contracts still have some there, obviously my contract I can go wherever. So the whole idea for us coming to Rwanda is that this is supposed to be our home base. We met in Saudi. So when we met in Saudi, we were like, okay, I don't want to go live in America.

[00:10:16] And he doesn't want to go back to Spain and order us over like, okay, this is where I want to go. This is what I, like. We came here last year, and he was like, Oh, this is it. He fell in love with it. I was like, okay, I'll go back, and I'll set up the home. And so that's why I'm here now. Nice. 

[00:10:34] Nyra: [00:10:34] So why Rwanda, what was his, what, what, what's your two's reasoning? For choosing Rwanda as your home base. 

[00:10:40] Francesca: [00:10:40] That's a good question. And I think for me, it's about calm. It is very peaceful. It is very calm here. Yeah. There's a little bit of a hustle, but you don't feel like you're going to get trampled. You don't feel like, okay. You're out of breath trying to get through your day.

[00:10:57] There's an agenda to your day. They're obviously, you know, you have to get worked on in order so you can survive, but it's not like that push, push, push, where you get to the end of the day, we were like, what happened today? You know, like what happened? 

[00:11:11] Nyra: [00:11:11] You know, like exhausted depleted.  You know what I'm saying? And this is just one day. Exactly, 

[00:11:21] Francesca: [00:11:21] exactly, exactly. 

[00:11:25] Nyra: [00:11:25] And then what happened? 

[00:11:27] Francesca: [00:11:27] And then it's progressive, you know, it's, it's one of those places where you are business minded. If you're ready to get into investments or develop your business ideas, you can do it here and you can. And there are opportunities. If you look in the right pockets, you can find some good opportunities here 

[00:11:45] Nyra: [00:11:45] who thinks of Rwanda as like the home, right. The resting place. Right.  That's why I asked you to why Rwanda, you know, it's like, cause it's peaceful and there's a little bit of city. That's a [00:12:00] little bit of hustle and bustle, but it doesn't overtake you. And we can, and my mind, you know, the way you described this, like your mind could be at ease and, you know, we can have a life here and I'd imagine seeing some Brown people. And what I'm assuming that your husband is Spaniard. Yes. 

[00:12:22]Francesca: [00:12:22] He's from Andorra and it's the in between France and Spain. 

[00:12:26] Nyra: [00:12:26] Ah, okay. And so for him to choose one, I think is just. Like mind boggling, like, no, this is it. This is the place. He felt more so than what he saw 

[00:12:39] Let’s talk about narratives for a moment. So you traveled around and usually counter, obviously people from other cultures, whatever. Have you had an assumption made about you or statement made to make you go, why would you think that about me? Do you feel like there was a narrative there's a narrative created, created? Was there a narrative to create it for you in a certain situation that you didn't realize? Well, aren't you aren't you? Oh, you're from America. You're from America.  Black women from America. They may not say it that way, but there's this idea that, you know, Yeah,

[00:13:19] Francesca: [00:13:19] I think, I think so, but I think so, but it is, but I think it's also different from culture to culture because each culture has their own perception of black women. But you know, in Asia there's a certain perception that, that I ran into when I was in, in Korea. That's you know, the men Korean men had a way of being shyly workstations [word not clear]. That's a way, you know, they would be flirtatious around the corner, but definitely not in front of anyone else because you know, it's not appropriate, but they were curious, they were curious.

[00:13:54] But I think that the overall perception is that there's they're waiting for you to be [00:14:00] as aggressive as the media and movies portray us as loud and boisterous. That the woman you see with rolling her neck and snapping their fingers. And I think when they meet me, they're like, Oh, wait a minute. You know, because I'm not a shouter. I don't, you know, I, I just don't because that's just not my nature, like who I am as a person. So I think that has been a surprise in a lot of places that I've been is that. You know, because we moved when I was in Saudi, I had some co-teachers that were Syria, that were from Jordan and from other places. And we know when they first meet me, they're like, Oh, Hey girl. And I was like,

[00:14:44] I don't even say anything. They just to themselves they're like, and that probably wasn't it. But that's what they see. And that's what they know. So I think these types of things are probably the things that I've come in contact with. And then of course you are having money. You know, depending on where you go, they, they automatically seem to be American.

[00:15:00] Nyra: [00:15:00] if you are American, you have money, right. If you are traveling and they meet you're American, then you're already a target. Like this person has money. Right. And I guess in comparison to them, yeah, you do have money, right. I know I can think of two very distinct experiences. First of all, when I would travel to Egypt, which was my first solo trip. So it was with my guide. And we're walking to the pyramids of Giza and, you know, you have eight injections of probably be the most hardcore sellers that I've ever met, you know, aggressive and they'll come and put, you wrap your arms around. They don't even know you, you a slide

[00:15:40] Sister, sister, sister, You know, everybody's shut up, Beyonce [word not clear]

[00:15:52] Francesca: [00:15:52] That's so [00:16:00] true. [word not clear]

[00:16:04] Nyra: [00:16:04] Okay. That was like it's. So took my, my guide Irene. She was like, Hey, it's in Arabic. She was like, [Speaking in Arabic] . And I was like, no, thank you. But you know what I found though, even in that interaction for me, Like I could have shied away, you know what I'm saying? But there would have been other moments where I was just like, Oh, let me rise to the challenge of how do I handle somebody? You know what I'm saying? You know, this hardcore seller found the opportunity. Today, you know what I'm saying? To exercise a skill that I don't get to exercise. 

[00:16:43] And so that was so I was just like, no, I don't want that. Oh, I would not pay. I'm not going to pay that. How about this? Because I was like, okay. You know, we pay everything. 

[00:16:59] Francesca: [00:16:59] Everything's a barter and even grades when you're teaching, they're like, oh miss

[00:17:22] Nyra: [00:17:22] Yeah, right, I like you, but you still getting this grade oh I can say about great drama. Oh, my goodness. But the perception as a woman, I don't know if there's a distinction between being a woman, living out in the world, being a black woman out in the world. What you may need some revelations you have. Come up to that they have that have somehow, you know, some aha moments that have somehow shifted your [00:18:00] own thinking and that even when you come home. Cause I don't know about you when I come home, the interactions are different for me. Like my whole experience is just different and, and I'm the only one that understands that I'm having a different experience and it's like, so you feel like an outsider in your own country, you know, was, I know it's rough.

[00:18:25] Francesca: [00:18:25] Yeah, I know. That's true. Yeah, because you, you, you, you tend to maneuver in the world differently because the expectations are different as well. Yeah, especially as an educator, when you go to a new place, a different way that education is looked at, there's an assumption that because the way you look, the way you look that you're not going to be able to produce quality class or quality education, because there is, you know, that perception that, you know, educators look a certain way or, you know, they're, they should be young, white and British.

[00:18:58] And so this is one thing that I haven't had happened when I was in Saudi. Is that there was a perception that, you know, you're supposed to work a little bit harder a little bit more. No, I just do what I, what I know how to do. And I show up for my students. I show them the classes in, and you'll see, and this is, and then they started to realize, Oh, okay, we can't have this because I actually, there were one, two, three, four black females. On our staff. out of 22? And we were rocking and rolling. Our classes were on fire and they were like, okay. So slowly but surely, they even started to learn that, okay, we can't have this, this perception. Right. The students and the students and the administration as well. Right, right, right. Yeah. And then it shapes the way that you think about it.

[00:19:40] You're like, no, I'm good. I'm all right. I'm not going to doubt myself because the rest of the world is belting me 

[00:19:46] Nyra: [00:19:46] such a key statement, right. Doubting yourself, because you know, you. Let's just take that. Let's just unpack that if you are a person that you are very interested in, people liking [00:20:00] you and you go to another forum,

[00:20:06] Francesca: [00:20:06] he would get on the plane, 

[00:20:10] Nyra: [00:20:10] you're on a plane. And what happens is you need to be in certain extreme search situations to learn that. You need to find out how you're operating inside. Like what's good with you and what are you good with? 

[00:20:24] Francesca: [00:20:24] You know what Nyra, this is the very traumatic for some people. I've seen some people who have left and, you know, they went out into the world and they weren't ready because of this. And they ended up in some really, really touchy situations and they ended up back home or they ended up in situations where they end up bad vibes about the place. Oh no, that place is terrible. And then I don't, I don't go there because this is the way that, but they weren't ready. Yeah. Yeah. They weren't ready. And it becomes a traumatic for some people they become really traumatized.  

[00:21:03] Nyra: [00:21:03] and you learn about yourself. Like what I learned you learned about yourself. I mean, it, it may be traumatizing. I've had a few traumatizing experiences where I was trying to save a school. So I was doing all these obscene hours, you know, because everybody, cause I was like literally only the, probably the only really qualified teacher in the entire school, you know, and by qualified, I mean my background, my education.

[00:21:31] Was, you know, I had a master's blah, blah, blah, blah, and, and experience. And nobody there, they were either three had three months here or six months, and then they left that school and this was second experience or first time teachers or people who had the content, which is another issue that there, I think UAE is  trying to fix that. Where you had teachers that they hired, that weren't necessarily teachers, but because they had a degree, [00:22:00] let's say in accounting that they had the teaching math, or maybe an accounting class or something like that, but they weren't teachers. 

[00:22:08] And the idea, no strategy that there was a pedagogy. Right of learning in teaching. And they like, what is pedagogy and what are you talking about? And I know math, I teach them, I teach them, you know, I showed her, and I was like, that's not how flight works, you know? 

[00:22:31] And it was just rough. And it was trying to find that that connective tissue, I want to move into asking you. You know, what is, what is your well, you, I know where you are now. What is the future plans? What's next five years out. Look like for you. 

[00:22:51] Francesca: [00:22:51] Well, the next five years out for sure. I will have retired from teaching. Okay. That's for sure. 

[00:22:58] Nyra: [00:22:58] So let's pause, retired. What saying about early fifties. 

[00:23:06] Francesca: [00:23:06] Oh, Oh, no, no. I mean, might retire probably within the next year to two years. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. 46, 47. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. before 50. 

[00:23:20] Nyra: [00:23:20] Yeah. And is that like to transition into something else or is that to you tell me, so 

[00:23:28] Francesca: [00:23:28] this is definitely to transition I won’t retire from working. I be that 89-year-old woman still running charities and still doing business. I would still be doing that with my purple high heels on. I'll be doing it. But I want to transition into business development. So my, my aim is to set up not just one business, but. Umbrella of businesses here. So that is my, that is my aim. I'm still sourcing [00:24:00] out what those businesses will be, but I know that there is a need and I know what my I would say forte passionate.

[00:24:09] So I'm going to go in that direction, which is in business to business services and also in the food and beverage area. So that's one thing. And the other thing is, is my passion project. Ex-pat divas. I am. Just in awe of the things that we are doing when we leave our home base. And we go out into the world. When we spread our wings, we soar, we fly, we influence our communities in ways that. Back home, not to say that we don't do the same back home. We do. It takes a lot of fight muscle, might, strength to do so back home. We know that, especially if you're from the U S we know that it's, it's very difficult and looking at, I will use the example of our new VP elect.

[00:24:58] Okay. Everyone everyone's marching for her. They're like, yeah. You know, system loss, but what were they doing when she was running? For president, people were throwing her under the bus. They were not uplifting her. Okay. If you pass not your candidate, that's fine. Things that people were saying and doing it was devastating. So I think this is one thing that when we leave the United States that we have to rely on each other as sisters, we have, there's no room for us to not support one another because the world is already telling us that we can't, we shouldn't and we don't, and we won't, but we have to cut that out. So for me, this is my passion project ladies, when we're out here in the world, if you're sowing something, if you want to, if you have a lot telling me, I want to know, so I can support it.

[00:25:46] That's the way I feel correct.