In this episode, Expats LaToya and Frances address how one opportunity changed the trajectory of their entire family by building stronger family bonds and creating generational wealth. Also, this mother and daughter found ways to change the mindsets of an international workforce, not use to female bosses, abroad by finding cultural commonalities with family dynamics; breaking bread to fill the soul and a just approach to conscientious leadership among men.
In this episode, Expats LaToya and Frances address how one opportunity changed the trajectory of their entire family by building stronger family bonds and creating generational wealth. Also, this mother and daughter found ways to change the mindsets of an international workforce, not use to female bosses, abroad by finding cultural commonalities with family dynamics; breaking bread to fill the soul and a just approach to conscientious leadership among men.
[00:01:55] Nyra: [00:01:55] Yes. I have looked Toya Bryant [00:02:00] white, and I have Francis Smith. Bryant and they are mommy and daughter. And I'm so happy to have you here. And they are ex-pats former ex-pats and we'll get into that. But expats that used to live in Iraq. Yes.
[00:02:18] Toya: [00:02:18] Yes. In Afghanistan and Dubai, Kuwait. And all of that.
[00:02:27] Nyra: [00:02:27] So we about to get all into that, but let's start from the beginning and Cuba. Oh my gosh. I did not know. See, I'm about to learn something. Hmm. So let's get into tell me who you are. Tell me a little bit about your background, where you're from.
[00:02:44] Toya: [00:02:44] Hi, my name is Toya Bryant white. I have been traveling back and forth overseas since 2005 on various contracts throughout the middle East. So, I started in Iraq, did that for a couple years. Then I went to Afghanistan, Kuwait, Dubai, Djibouti [word not clear]. And I think that's it. Yeah. So I did that for a couple of years on and off up until recently, I think I just came home from off-contract in 2015, maybe 2015. But I'm actually considering going back.
[00:03:22]A couple of my colleagues are over there and asking me to come back out. So I, that might be on my agenda in the near future to go back over to Afghanistan. But I don't know right now, but how it started was my husband got out of the military and he went over to be a contractor. So I would, yeah. See the income that he was bringing in and I would be like, I want to come over there and make some real money. And, you know, he was like, all right, you know, passed my resume around and even know what they call you. [00:04:00] Don't freeze up. I had never been in the military, so I really didn't know what to expect.
[00:04:03]But lo and behold, one day they called me in 2005. It was actually right when hurricane Katrina happened, and I got a call that they needed some HR assistance in Iraq. And I went and it's been history ever since, but when I went, maybe after about six to eight months of being over there I got my brother a job. So my youngest brother came over there with me. One of my cousins came over, my uncle came over and then my mother came over. So it was truly a family affair for a good couple of years.
[00:04:37]Nyra: [00:04:37] That's wonderful,
[00:04:40] Francis: [00:04:40] to be honest with you because of the living conditions and she was not used to living on such minimal means. So how first week was probably the funniest story That I ever heard because I'm like she called me and she was like, ma I'm thinking about going overseas and will you come and watch Kadara for me? So I was like, nah, just started my job of blue cross blue shield and you know, y'all are growing up.
[00:05:14] So she was like, you know, I really want to do this. So me being a mother that I am I said, you know what? I would rather her see what it's like and not like it then never go and then regret it. So I made the sacrifice and then said, okay, I'll come to Virginia because I was living in South Carolina at the time and originally were new Yorkers, but I raised them in the South and South Carolina.
[00:05:40] So I left my job, went to Virginia, stayed in her house, took care of my grandson, which was easy for me. So I'm saying to myself, yes, she'll be back home because. It's a desert. She's got to use a porta [word not clear], John, you know, she's not accustomed to this, this ain't going to [00:06:00] last long, but we're going to do this lo and behold, about two years. I'm like, okay, I'm ready to come over there and make some money now, but I'm going to let you tell it. I'm gonna let her tell you her first week there because yeah, I didn't think she was gonna make it.
[00:06:23] Nyra: [00:06:23] All right. Tell it Toya.
[00:06:24] Toya: [00:06:24] Yeah, I think I was going to make it either. Honey, when I got off that plane on that base and they showed me to attend say saying, this is where I was going to be staying. I was like, Oh no. I called and I was Boohoo crying. I was like, he was like, Babe, if you can't make, go ahead and go home. I got you. Go ahead and go home. But it was some other people that I had become cool with. And they were like, Toya, like, you know, everybody goes through it when they first get here, but like, just try to make it. So you get your first check. Once you get your first check.
[00:07:08] In like three weeks, you should be able to tell like, if you can make it or not. So I was like, okay, cool. But after, so I, you know, bit the bullet, I was like, all right, I got my first check. And I was like, ah, It aint that bad
[00:07:32] Nyra: [00:07:32] And you had three weeks to really try to feel that out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, so there was definitely some not only mental adjustment. Right. You know, but just understanding your focus and priority at the time. I'm thinking,
[00:07:47] Toya: [00:07:47] you know, yeah. Like what am I really over here for? But not ever being in the military, like my husband had been in the military, so he knew what to expect. Anybody that's been in the military. You kind of know what to expect. Cause it's the same thing. It's just in a desert, [00:08:00] living in tents, Porter, Johns, and all that stuff. I had never been in the military before. So I was in a culture shock, like, Oh, My God being the type of person that I am. I am a solitary person. So living in a tent with like eight to 10 other women, that was not my jam at all. Like.
[00:08:25] Nyra: [00:08:25] But you made it through?
[00:08:26]Toya: [00:08:26] I did. I made it like, I think they environment, like it was, you know, other people that was around my age, like them just talking to me, like, look, you know, just get your first check and then, you know, make a decision from there. So I was like, all right, cool. Y'all out here doing it. Like, let me see. What's really going on. But after you get your first check, it definitely puts some stuff in perspective.
[00:08:52] Nyra: [00:08:52] So tell me about your first week. Francis. What was your first week like?
[00:08:57] Toya: [00:08:57] Oh, mom's was fantastic. Cause by the time I got there, ma’s was very easy. Everything was great. The base that she came to, we was living in Shreela [word not clear]. So it's like, you might get, she had our old side of the trailer, it was a bathroom in the middle. Then the other person had they own side of the trailer. So it wasn't no tail life. So when she came, she was like, what's all the fuss about like,
[00:09:40] Francis: [00:09:40] I thought everybody arrived the way that I did. I didn't know any better. I was like, well, what are you mad about? You know, I got first class, everything. She was HR. So that made it, you know, she had the right connections. Everybody knew who I was. They had already nicknamed me mama Smith. So I was [00:10:00] just doing just fine when I got there. So it was I mean, it was an adjustment, but it was doable. You know, and then just know what the mission was and being there for the troops and doing what we were supposed to do. So that made it reward as well as the paycheck. So that was, that was good. And then just the experience of being able to work with people from all different backgrounds and cultures was also very fascinating for me because you got a chance to meet people from literally all over a world in one setting.
[00:10:36] So you were eating with them. Working with them, our basis was, was, was segregated by, you know, American ex-pats versus Philippines. They had their own camp, Indian people have their own camps, but for the most part, you, you got to interact with, with people from different cultures, you got to interact with the military. So you met people from every state. So it was just a very good. Rewarding experience for me.
[00:11:04] Nyra: [00:11:04] May I ask how old you were when you went over there?
[00:11:09] Francis: [00:11:09] Oh, 46 47. Okay.
[00:11:16] Nyra: [00:11:16] Okay. And I think it's important to, to point out because some people may think, Oh, you know having this opportunity, you know, having an opportunity like that. Maybe out of reach or over the so-called Hill, you know what I'm saying, or not, you know, I should have been 20 something to do these types of things, you know?
[00:11:33] Francis: [00:11:33] No, it was people over there that was in their sixties and seventies.
[00:11:38] Toya: [00:11:38] You have to work with these work with people from different backgrounds.
[00:11:42]Nyra: [00:11:42] Would you say, what was the, probably the first thing that you noticed was a difference in work style?
[00:11:47] Francis: [00:11:47] I worked in a warehouse, so for me safety was an issue. They will look, they will put together some boxes and stand on it with no guy and just climb up [00:12:00] on stuff. And you like, no, we have OSHA [word not clear] rules, so they try to work fast and, and, and get any efficient, but not safety concerns. So one of the things that we, that I had to teach them was safety, etiquettes. So I've learned that, you know, they want to please, you, they want to feel proud about the job that they do, and they do love the praise and the recognition. So that was very, very important to people of different cultures, which is what I learned.
[00:12:33] But I think the most significant thing that I learned was that. When talking with them about their families, how they live, you know, what are some of their customs? I find that as human beings, we're more alike than we're not alike. So they want the same thing for their families. You know, a safe environment, food, clothing, you know, the love. They have the same mess ups and their families, as we do in ours, you know, you always got that one uncle or that one cousin or that one aunt and you'd be like, Oh, you too. So it was just funny to see how, no matter what walk of life came from your family existence and, and just being a human being was the same, you know, we had the same difficulties that we had.
[00:13:26]We were all out there for the same reasons to support our families. You know, to find a good paying job. So it was just interesting to interact with people and know that we are more alike than we are different. And even in religion, you know, a lot of them will be Muslim or Christian, but at the same time, just the basic principle of spirituality and religion was basically the same as well.
[00:13:57] Toya: [00:13:57] For me, it was more [00:14:00] of it was so interesting just learning like their different cultures and backgrounds and the way that they did things working in the United States. You're not really afforded that, but working over there, you have so many different cultures that you're working with and learning from it's amazing. But I will say that the other cultures always they outworked Americans like hands down, they outworked Americans hands down because of the fact they had it. To me, it just felt like so much more what's on the line for them than it was for us, for us yeah, we could, we could go back we wouldn't make as much money back in the U S we can go and find a job.
[00:14:42] A lot of them that was it. Like either they were overseas or they were unemployed when they got back home. Right. So you would see that in their work ethic. And a lot of them have been doing it for so long. Like for instance, one contract that was with KBR. KBR was in Macedonia, in Bosnia, like back in the nineties and a lot of the Bosnians and the Macedonians have been on projects since then just move us to various countries. So, you know, a lot of them hadn't seen a family like that in decades in all honesty. But yeah, just, just learn, just, just learning from them and like things about their countries. It intrigued me to go visit their countries and just having a front row seat as opposed to getting my views from tV or whatever the case may be.
[00:15:33] It was just totally different. Like actually working with these people and hearing about their family lives and how they just managed back when you're in their country.
[00:15:43] Nyra: [00:15:43] That's one of the benefits that's like, it's probably one of the best benefits is that when you make these relationships, they invite you to their country. You know what I'm saying? And they say, you know, come eat at our table. You know what I'm say, come see how we live this a certain pride that they still have [00:16:00] about their country, even though they may be going through the country, may be going through unemployment and political upheaval or whatever the case may be. You know, there is still a sense of pride, you know, how have you changed the minds of others?
[00:16:14]Toya: [00:16:14] I would say just. From what they saw on TV, as opposed to what I gave them was different, but don't get me wrong. It was some Americans on that base that treated them like shit or that, you know what I mean? That were very mean to them.
[00:16:32] Francis: [00:16:32] It was more discriminatory or racist period. Right. Right.
[00:16:39] Toya: [00:16:39] But my department or working in the human resources department, we were able to, when we found out about it and mind you now, a lot of them wouldn't say anything because in their mind, if I say something I'm going to get fired and I'm going home and my whole family is riding on this. So it was a, you know, a lot of discriminatory practices going on that we didn't find out about because of that. But the ones that I did work with and that I, you know, was able to have relationships with some of them I even still talk to them to this day. And I mean, I haven't seen them since like 2012, 2013.
[00:17:15]So, you know, I, but I was able to change the way that they saw all Americans, but a lot of them, the Americans lived up to what they saw on TV. I will say that for sure. We will have an invest. We would like if we found out something was not going, how it was supposed to go, because at the end of the day, though, they were other country nationals. It was still an American base and we felt under American law. So if we got wind or found out that something was going on, that should not have been like discrimination against them or they weren't being treated right. We were starting the investigation and the corporate definitely would get terminated and get sent home and sometimes ultimately get barred from working on military basis. Period. If the, [00:18:00] if the offense was egregious enough,
[00:18:05] it was just raining [word not clear] out, you know, a lot, like they were so scared of losing their jobs. A lot of them would not talk or would not say anything.
[00:18:14] Francis: [00:18:14] For me, it was a little different because I was I was management, but for me, I learned that even within the different cultures was a class system. So with the Indians, the younger people had to cater to the safety with the Filipinos. Then you had the Filipinos that didn't get along with the Indian. So it was one of those things. Whereas in my environment, because I was logistics and warehousing, they all had to work together and get along together. My approach was, what does your contract say? You all are equal to me. There is no hierarchy.
[00:18:57] If that's your position, you will do your position because of your contract. So I was able to afford them more dignity and respect culturally as opposed to having them segregated. So what I would do was I would plan, I was scheduled to where they all got to work together and in various positions so that they can learn to not only communicate with one another, but respect one another's position and take them out of that class system. And so that worked very well because a lot of times I would also use food to bring everybody together. So I would have cookouts for my team and everybody got a chance to eat and bake bread together and try to break down some of that. So that way I could show them that we're all equal. Another thing was they wasn't used to a woman boss.
[00:19:58] So for me to be a [00:20:00] woman in position and them having to take being overseas with our management position, I was over both expats and foreign nationals. And then being a female what I found was for me, Is easier when you're working side by side with them, no matter what the job is in order to gain their respect and to understand that you're there to teach them.
[00:20:29]So I would definitely get in the field with them. I could stock shelves. I can do everything that they could do and what I needed them to understand and to learn was that I knew their job. And I knew their job proficiently. So just like anybody else in the workforce, if they could skirt by, with not doing certain things, they would, you know, just like any child would.
[00:20:53] So you had to show them that you was always two steps ahead of them. And that kind of fascinated them about me being a female was that I wasn't the type that sat in my office. I was actually on the floor with them, understanding their job, showing them how to do their jobs better. And teaching them knowledge, which they weren't used to because most people don't want to share the knowledge because they're afraid that they'll lose their job. I was the type that I would tell them, I can't move up if I don't teach somebody to take my place. So, and I also wanted them to have the knowledge so that when they went home, they had a skill. That they could utilize in the future. So that was important for me, was to teach them correctly to the best of my knowledge, and to give them the tools that they would need, not just for today, but for the future.
[00:21:49] So that was something that was appreciated. Being able to go into meetings as a, as a supervisor and being able to even explain to upper management. Some of the [00:22:00] downfalls that was on the ground because I was out there helped a lot in order to make the processes and procedures go more smoothly or improve them. So I learned a lot of skills myself and in the skills that I learned, I was more than happy to pass them on.
[00:22:18]Toya: [00:22:18] For me, I really had a lot of. I didn't have a lot of other country nationals working under me. I had a few, but it was like a level in between. So I was a supervisor. Then we had like the regular HR generalist, HR associates, then it would be the other country nationals. But I just really always made sure that they were treated fairly and that they understood that, you know, we were all one team. To be totally honest though a lot of them knows the job backwards and forwards. Like that's just how much, how serious they take it because so much is riding on it. So they can do the job better than Americans to be totally honest in a lot of the cases. But unfortunately, they weren't getting paid that same amount.
[00:23:09] So I knew that they knew that. So that's what I would do. Other things to kind of try to let them know, like, I still appreciate you, whether it be gift cards from the PX, extra food from the dining facility, like whatever I could just to show my appreciation, because I know they were in, they weren't getting paid what we were getting paid or really their worth
[00:23:31]Francis: [00:23:31] that first, you know, everybody's happy that you Oh, well because you do. you are able to come back and afford you. Actually, you change, you change levels, you level up from when you first went and after you've done so many years over there, you're able to accumulate. You're able to, to come up from, let's say, low income to middle income. So it does change your lifestyle. But at the same [00:24:00] time you have. Some people, family members, friends that think you have it like that, not realizing I still have to pay bills. So then you kind of get people that stuck, Oh, you know, they changed this, that and the other. No, you know, we haven't changed. It's just that we've accumulated more.
[00:24:22] So it was more upkeep. So you now fit your income fits your lifestyle. So it's a little different. But at the same time, you stayed grounded for me. Fortunately, not only did my children go over there and I had the opportunity to go over there, but we've always moved as a unit. So we were able to stay grounded within one another and not worry about what the outside world thought, but to know that our whole process was to make sure that we start to build generational wealth. And entrepreneurship so that we can change the trajectory of what our family will look like in years to come. So we made that our mission to make sure that we're building a future, not just for what's today and what we've accomplished, but that we're opening up doors so that we have generational existence.
[00:25:22] So I think for me as I'm. Being a matriarch and the head of, of my family that was important to me. And I was, I was fortunate enough to have my children understand my vision and want that for their children, because they knew that my vision was not only for them, but it was for their children and their children's children. So we have always taught, at least I was always taught that you're supposed to provide for two generations and that afforded us the opportunity to position ourselves, to do that.
[00:25:54] Toya: [00:25:54] And that's why I love my position being in human resources. Like I was, I was the [00:26:00] gateway and able to get, because it's really all about who, you know, you can apply for some jobs all day long in all honesty, but unless, you know, somebody, you just, one of 10,000 people that apply for the same position. So, you know, you really have to know somebody that's going to give you that opportunity. And then what you do with it is, you know, on you.
[00:26:22] Francis: [00:26:22] And that's one of the things that I can say I was the most proud of with her was because she did act back her brother's keeper. She made sure that once she got her foot through that door, she made opportunities for others. Not just her family, but you know, just in the community. So that was a great opportunity because most people don't realize how a lot of people get afforded opportunities that most people don't get, but that's because, like she said, you know, somebody in there and they open up that door and fortunately she was able to help. A lot of people see a different way of life. Now, again, like she said, what they did with that opportunity, that's on them, but at least she gave them the opportunity to make more out of their life. And that right there, I think is, is the most that you could do for anybody in, as a human being is giving them the opportunity to be proud of not only who they are, but what they do and what they can do for their family.
[00:27:27] Nyra: [00:27:27] I think that generational wealth is such an important, it it's the new, new buzzword among, especially definitely black Americans. You what I'm saying? Or people who we're, you know, cause now we have the internet. Now we have so much information is being streamed through these channels. That generational wealth is definitely the number one thing. It's not this hush hush inside a secret society that it once used to be like you would either [00:28:00] from that family or not either in the know and not in the know, you know but yes, I, I completely understand that. Now I think it's did you say, or did you mention, I don't know, did y'all live in the projects?
[00:28:15] Toya: [00:28:15] Oh yeah. Cause we first moved to South Carolina. Yes, we did. We lived in the hood. We did, there was the epitome of the hood. Yeah,
[00:28:29] Nyra: [00:28:29] no. And the reason why I want to bring that up, cause somebody who's listening. Might be thinking, Oh, you know, I can never get up outta here, but yeah, you can, you know what I'm saying? There's opportunity at every level. Would you say every educational level?
[00:28:44]Toya: [00:28:44] Absolutely. Cause it was people overseas that only had a high school diploma, but I really just, I feel like if it's all about your mentality, like you can grow up in the hood and you got choices. If you will continue on that path because you like it, or you'll be like, this is not for me. And I knew growing up in the hood was not for me. And I did not want to raise my kids in that environment. So I was going to do whatever I had to, to get up out of there and just distance myself from that mentality and that whole, that whole way of thinking, you know, and it's, it's disheartening when I see people that I went to school with that still live there and, you know, have all these kids and you still there to me, it's just like, I can't comprehend it.
[00:29:30] That's saying to me like, Oh my God. But when I go when I travel like to the different countries, like for instance, when I was in Iraq, we would have to take a black Hawk from Baghdad. So I based in Tazi and sometimes on that flight, you will fly in the daytime and I would, you could look out and I'm looking at this ravage country and I'm like, every, if I lived here every day, I woke up, it would be how the [00:30:00] hell I'm gonna get out this country like that and saying it was so, and I just don't understand.
[00:30:06] People that don't have that same mentality that grow up in the hood. You know what I mean? Like I don't, I just can't comprehend it. Like, and we, we did get black backlash of people, all, they think they all have that or they, you know, and to me that's a crazy way of thinking and that's how you want to look at it. Hey, that's on you. But just because I no longer want to be in this environment, I don't think I'm all that I just want better for my life.
[00:30:32] Francis: [00:30:32] That goes to show you just how quick you a decision in your life can be made for good or for bad, you can let fear stop you, or you can take that excitement of and make a whole career and the opportunity of a lifetime. It, excuse me. And that's one of the things that I can honestly say, like my daughter has become my best travel buddy. I love, love, love traveling with her because. Oh, yeah, we get it lifetime memories together. You know, when it's time for me to go, she will not have any regrets because we've spent quality time together, fun times together, you know, exploration together.
[00:31:22] So it's just, it's just been the best thing. And it's like, like being my best friend, you know, come on tour. Where are we going to, I want to go here. What'd you think about that? She'd be like, mommy, I had a fantasy trip. Sign me up. And that to me is priceless. You know, and now my granddaughter is part of a travel book. So, you know, it just, it just makes everything complete because you get a chance to go on an exploration with some of the best people. And we meet some amazing people and our friendships last over [00:32:00] years, like we still keep in touch with most of the people that we clicked with. Well, we went to Italy, we we are still in contact with them.
[00:32:09] We still in contact with people that we work with overseas. So it's just those things that even if I don't sit at your table, we will always and forever share that experience together. And that keeps us, that keeps us sane
[00:32:28] Nyra: [00:32:28] for my listeners. You know, some people, you know, you have professional people who, you know, work with people who are mid-career looking for an opportunity. But there are some myths that stand in their way. And I wanted to see if you can, if, if there was a myth that you could debunk for an expat, what's the myths that you've heard. That that you had to set, right?
[00:32:57] Toya: [00:32:57] Oh, that is so dangerous. Like why y'all over this so dangerous. I'm like, you can get shot going to the store right now. It's like, I'd rather get shot making me six figures and a good shot making me 40, $50,000 a year. I'm sorry. That was, that was a real big move in the news. Like the news. I'd be like, please stop watching the news because it is not going down like that over here. Yes, it is dangerous, but it's not like that.
[00:33:26] You know what I mean? Like in it to be totally honest. It was at one point, it sounded way I felt safer over there than i would be in United States.
[00:33:36] Nyra: [00:33:36] Right, right. It's not something
[00:33:38]Toya: [00:33:38] that, that is like, that is, but that was one of the major myths.