Conversation with Xpat App Creator and Portugal Expat Shar Wynter

In this episode, Xpat App Creator and Portugal Expat Shar Wynter share the idea of navigating travel through the Covid is a spiritual practice; why financial planning is the cornerstone towards a successful transition into expatriation; how a significant loss was the impetus of pursuing her freedom.

Sharolyn is a social entrepreneur and growth strategist who promotes diversity & inclusion, personal development, and community empowerment.  She is the founder and CEO of Xpat, Inc., and creator of The Xpat App, which is noted as the first and only app for the Black expat community.  As a growth strategist, she leverages insights from her global experience to help companies and individuals elevate their band.  Her prior experience includes 10+ years at Deloitte Consulting and serving as the Director of Strategic Partnerships for Girls LOVE Travel, a community of 1.1 million female travelers.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shar.wynter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/feetmeetsland/

Xpat App: https://www.instagram.com/TheXpatApp/

Transcript

 Nyra [00:01:51] Jar winter. I love that name by the way. And so , introduce [00:02:00] yourself. Who are you? Where are you from?

[00:02:04] Guest: [00:02:04] I'm in Detroit, but my people are from Jamaica. my mother from a small remote town called Pisca daddy's from Kingston. And I have been living abroad for a little bit about over three years now. I did three years in London, which I absolutely love completely transformed my life. And, that's why I am back abroad again now, living in Lisbon Portugal's. So it's been a very interesting journey, a lot to think about, you know, once you move abroad and come back home, but. I think the abroad life is definitely for me. 

[00:02:43] Nyra: [00:02:43] So yeah. I came back, you know, but I am missing living abroad. and that's awesome. So, you are in Lisbon, which i have never been to Portugal. And it is definitely, and I have a few, you know, friends that are out there. Now. I have another friend, the greatest sense of, for me to come out there and visit and experience what, Portugal has to offer. There's A lot of history there. 

[00:03:07] Guest: [00:03:07] Yes, one of the oldest European countries is something about the energy here. Just drew me in immediately. I lit it it's an energy thing because I'm like, why Portugal? I'm like, man, I really wish I could tell you exactly why. It's just the way I felt when I first got here and subsequent visits as well. 

[00:03:25] Nyra: [00:03:25] Great. Now, when was your, were you always traveling before you became an ex-pat?

[00:03:31] Guest: [00:03:31] Yeah, I was a pretty avid traveler. I so far now been to about 50 countries, but prior to like my first expat experience, I had been quite a bit of travel in just. Just love traveling. for my very, very first overseas experience, going to Jamaica to where my mom was from. It just ignited in spark, like this travel curiosity in me, seeing different ways of life and, because where my mother's from is like a remote, a smaller town. And it was, you know, growing up in the city my whole life. That was all I knew. [00:04:00] So when I visited where she was from, and it was a completely different way of life from where, you know, where I had grown up, I was blown away, but it just made me really curious. And so I took a job where it allowed me to travel as a consultant with Deloitte consulting, did that for 10 years.

[00:04:16] And, I took the job because they paid for you to travel. So I picked my job, not based off salary, but based off your ability to travel. And I knew they had overseas experiences. So the travel thing is like, that's my passion. Like I'm just really, really passionate about it. 

[00:04:32] Nyra: [00:04:32] And so it's funny you say, you know, that you saw images growing up of travel.

[00:04:39] Guest: [00:04:39] Yeah, well through, I mean, my mom explaining like how she grew up and then I used to watch the history channel. I was a total nerd. Let me just point that out. Always watching the history channel and national geographic and things like that. and just been really into just other, I feel like in my previous life, I might've been like an anthropologist or something because I am genuinely curious in how people live, like different cultures and, just even like historical times, right. It fascinates me. So that's what kind of sparked the whole watching the new, you know, watching a history channel and then actually traveling myself. Cause I like to see things for myself. I don't have [word not clear] anything until I see it myself. 

[00:05:23] Nyra: [00:05:23] Definitely, you know? You don't, you don't pay attention to it until years later, when you are having your experience, you are making these decisions and you start to reflect and go, Oh, that's what sparked it. That was the image. This image. Is there one image you can think of that had a lasting effect? I know you talk about TV and watching the history channel. Is there anything else you can think of? That was like a strong image that you look back now and go, yeah. 

[00:05:58] Guest: [00:05:58] Yeah. I always [00:06:00] say two actually one for sure was, seeing pictures of my great-grandmother's house in the country. And I was just shocked because it's kind of like on stilts and with people, I guess in the U S would call like made out of like, just would intend, you know, tin cover. people probably call it a shack, but you know, that's their home. And, I just couldn't believe that it was standing still, you know, because I'm like, wow, like all these years.

[00:06:24]and then that was one image. And then when I finally saw it in person, It was a bit surreal because I, I don't know. It's like, you know what I mean? You think, so it's going to be a certain way. And I remember thinking it was going to be like, really, really like bigger, I guess. Cause, but then yeah, it was like really small and I was like, man, all of you guys lived here.

[00:06:44]Nyra: [00:06:44] Right.

[00:06:45]Guest: [00:06:45] And then the other thing was, I remember. seeing the loop, on the history channel and just being really impressed by it. And then I remember when I finally saw it in person was actually in the state. I walked by it, I was in Paris visiting a friend and it was really late and it was raining, and I was trying to find my way back. And, I used to have too much prior tax rates [word not clear]. I should just ask them to like, give me instructions. And I actually got lost in it, walking by, and it was raining and it was beautiful. Cause it was lit up and I was like, Oh. My gosh, I think I'm one of those moments where you're like, yeah, I thought about this place. I thought about this place before. it was just nice to actually finally be there. 

[00:07:20] Nyra: [00:07:20] Yeah, yeah. For sure. I had this feeling with Eiffel tower. I am standing up. It was like, you know, because it's something that you've seen that image so many times, many times to be there. Yeah. And I've been disappointed too.

[00:07:39] Guest: [00:07:39] Yes, I will. Oh yeah. Cause I think sometimes I get too excited and have really, really high expectations. And then I'm like a little underwhelmed, 

[00:07:50] Nyra: [00:07:50] which, which one, which one would you say was like a disappointment i know which one it was for me 

[00:07:55] Guest: [00:07:55] Most underwhelming for me, even though I love London, I would [00:08:00] say, yeah, big Ben in London. Hmm, the London, eye want to say underwhelm I just, man, I don't know what I was expecting because I finally saw it. Like, it makes sense to clock or it makes sense it's like a big wheel. It's like, I Don't know what I was thinking. or what I was expecting, but those are two that immediately come to mind. And then I hate to say this, but Rome as a whole underwhelmed, me and I, because I'm really into history.

[00:08:24] And like, even like, I remember taking Greek mythology when I was in class. I know that's not the, you know what you're saying? Like just having these visuals and I, and then went to. that really was underwhelmed, I was more obsessed with the shopping day, anything. And then I was like, I don't have enough money to enjoy the way that I want to.

[00:08:43] I would say those, those two places. What about you?

[00:08:47] Nyra: [00:08:47] Leaning tower of PISA. I was like, Oh, let's go see, I remembered that from the cartoon. Oh, I got to see this lean into it. And I turned that corner and I was just like, You know, is  just like, what?? underwhelm And I was just like, Oh my gosh, it was such a small, it was a perspective. And not an actual I'm thinking this is tall, huge tower. And then it just happens to be the leaning and it did look like it was gonna fall, but it wasn't that tall. Like I, if I stood next to it, I didn't feel like my life was in danger. You know what I'm saying?

[00:09:38]Guest: [00:09:38] I've never been. So, I'm like, okay, 

[00:09:40] Nyra: [00:09:40] I'm just letting you know. 

[00:09:43] Guest: [00:09:43] I have these grand expectations for places it's so it's really bad. And I'm like, Charlotte, calm down, relax. 

[00:09:51] Nyra: [00:09:51] So. You're traveling through your twenties. I'm assuming. And then now you're intern, you talked about your [00:10:00] career now. Yeah. And I want you to talk about how you, you chose, which I really love to point that out just yet again, choosing a company that's going to pay for your travel. Yeah. But what was your background? What was your, what was your, skillset. 

[00:10:17] Guest: [00:10:17] Oh, yeah. So, I had, I had a math degree undergrad, and then I had a study. I had, I studied industrial engineering and operations research and a lot of people didn't know what an operations research was. So I just added the industry engineering cause it's very similar. and I remember when I was looking for a job. I was like, I don't know what I want to do. I don't know what I'm going to be. I just want to travel. so that's how I came across to consulting and they put, they were only recruiting for technology. I did not want to go into technology. I was like, technology is scary.

[00:10:51] I'm not technical. All these things we tell ourselves. Right. So, but I was like, you know what? I really want to work for this company because I know that they pay well. And I also knew that they would pay for travel to client site. So I'm interview get the job. And first year struggle. Like from day one, I struggled for a whole year, like a whole year. I wanted to quit every other day. I was like, and then, you know, eventually I realized like it actually isn't that hard. Like almost everything is you can Google. So i became the Google YouTube university champion. I started building my technical skillset because I was putting a very technical role and it was working with financial services. Clients and banks in. yeah, it was really interesting. So I was on the data side, moving data from failed banks because I joined the workforce during the financial crisis.

[00:11:46] Nyra: [00:11:46] That's a whole other podcast, 

[00:11:47] Guest: [00:11:47] That's a whole other podcast, but I did work primarily. I kept consulting on in technical side. Focusing on data, in loan origination products. And that led me to really understand [00:12:00] finances and financial literacy, because once you, part of the work I was doing, I needed to understand banking products. And once I realized how the banks made money, it totally changed my philosophy about the way that I view how I spend my money, how I invested and all that. So it was an interesting, I'm talking about all this because that played into how my everything evolved. After about maybe five years in, I went abroad with the same company.

[00:12:27] We had an office overseas in London, stayed there for two years, extended for a little bit longer. Cause I loved it so much. And then my work visa was up, had to come back to the States and I hated it immediately. I was like, Oh, why am I here? I just felt so out of place and I really wanted to go back abroad. And so they kind of frowned upon, doing another, they call us a comment, another comment [word not clear].  back to back as it does take a while for them to settle as well, all your stuff, technically from an admin perspective. And I was like, you know what, they're not going to send me abroad again. I already know they're not.

[00:12:57] And so that's when I started my little exit strategy. So I was like, I gotta figure something out. I was unhappy. Did a six-month sabbatical at work. Volunteering with organization that I love. And I was like, okay, this is great, but it's exhausting. And then that's when I started to think about taking a gap year, because I thought that sabbatical would be my gap. And it wasn't because I was working really hard when I was volunteering. It was really good work, but it was really exhausting. and I was saving for, but not taking it seriously. And then my dad died and when you lose a parent and he passed away right before retirement, It really changed your perspective on life work, happiness materials, things.

[00:13:40] Yeah, it took me and I wasn't even extremely close to my dad, but it just barely impacted my outlook and the sense of urgency that I had to take this gap year to live my life. It just became like unyielding. Like there was nothing that, you know, stopped me from doing it. I was like, I'm going to take this gap year. So I started to save it extremely aggressively. to the point where I was saving over half [00:14:00] my paycheck and just stacking my money because I knew I wanted a comfortable gap here and I didn't want to be in hostels or whatever. So my plan was to take a year off, do some soul searching, do some passion projects that I had put on the back burner for years and to find a new place to live abroad.

[00:14:18] And I wanted to completely change my lifestyle. So, I, I saved up enough money two years later after that 2018, you know, two years later, 2020. and it was October finally quit my job. I had been at that point 10 years with the company, same company, and it was the scariest, but most liberating period of my life, I was so happy just to be able to exist, and just do what I love. And so I started traveling of course. ended up in London when the pandemic hit, that was about March last year. About a year ago, actually. And I remember thinking like, Oh, I'll just wait it out here in London, you know, it's no biggie, you know, to go away. I had no idea what we were about to what was about to happen.

[00:15:02] And about three or four months in, I was like, okay, all right. pandemic is here to stay. and I had already had plans to go to Portugal. that was like on the last that's when he, my last stop, because in my mind, Portugal was like more than likely where I was gonna end up. And I just had to move my ticket up because they were going to close the borders. They weren't going to let Americans in. And so I changed my ticket three days later, I'm on a plane to Portugal , but before I get on a flight, even though I was flying from , London and not U S they were not letting Americans on that flight. Really. And I was so upset at first cause I was like, Oh man, what am I going to do?

[00:15:40] Because I was already about to max out my time in London. You don't want to be there for six months on a tourist visa. Right. So I'm nervous. I'm in line. I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm about to do. So I stand off to the side. 

[00:15:51] Nyra: [00:15:51] I want to pause there. It's moments like that. People need to understand who are [00:16:00] listening, that you just never know. That's why it pays to. Plan pays to do research before you even step foot on the plane, because moments like that, you don't know, you can't plan for what the other side is going to do in that given moment. You don't know what the circumstance is going to be. Nobody knows there's going to be no rules. There's going to be a whole new norm. That's going to be, that's being created as we speak. Oh, it was COVID, you know, and, and even this, you know, countries are still figuring that out, but there are some preliminary things that you can do to make sure that you have the right place to go, you know, who to call and how to assess your situation without. You know, feeling frazzled, you know, so 

[00:16:53] Guest: [00:16:53] exactly the point. So many things were changing by the hour. Not directly when I say by the hour. Cause that was my situation. 

[00:17:02] Nyra: [00:17:02] Yeah. You know, not allow, I'm sure you weren't the only American. 

[00:17:05] Guest: [00:17:05] I know it was a couple of us. yeah. And what ended up happening is the, some of the other Americans started yelling at the gate agents and I stepped off to the side because I really didn't want to be associated. Cause I was like, Whoa, they will not let us on the flight it's like, I'm over here standing. But the lady had my passport because when the other American came up, she was like, she didn't have her mask. And I was like, Whoa, like COVID. So I had backed up. The lady said has my passport gate agent. And I'm standing off to the side and out of nowhere, one of the, supervisors walk up, you know, she's on the other side of the counter.

[00:17:38] She points to me and another gentleman and she says to another gate agent check these two, when they're residents, ah, good universe came through for me. and I ran over to that gate because even though I never said I was a resident because I was touring on a tourist visa. And, then we finally got my passport from the other gate agent. He's like, wait, She's American and he hands the lady my [00:18:00] passport she's like, yeah, they are Portugese residents. Check them in. I don't know the guy behind me. He was just standing here while the other Americans are like yelling at argument. I'm like, let me and is where they realized they made a mistake.

[00:18:11] Let me get on this flight. So I'm on the flight. I'm making on the flight. I sit down and I'm like, Oh my gosh, my nerves are really bad because I'm like, I still have to go through border patrol. Right, right. So when I [word not clear].

[00:18:26] so I keep checking the website, like, man, it says we're still allowed. I don't know why, you know, whatever they will make. They can make up whatever rules they want to at the airport. So when I land I'm like the only one in the non EU passport lane. So I go, I walk up. The guy speaks to me in Portuguese. I don't know why.

[00:18:42] Cause I'm like, I’m on non-EU line. I don’t know any Portuguese sorry he goes, are you, visiting any family? You have family here. I'm like, no, like you don't have any family here. And I'm like, no, i am kind of hesitant to say no now, because I'm like, should I say he shakes his head? Yes. Stamps me up, lets me go through. I later find out that the only exception they should have been giving to letting Americans come through was for family reunification. Purposes. So this is why he was asking me that. So he actually was gracious to me because he promised me [word not clear].

[00:19:26] Nyra: [00:19:26] we can't send her back.

[00:19:27] Guest: [00:19:27] When i picked my bags. I was so grateful because I knew, I just knew I wasn't really supposed to have gotten here, but everything happened so seamlessly after that. the next, very next day I went, I was able to just get a lease. Everything's set up and I was in that place within two days. Crazy. Everything just was perfect or whatever. And it was just so seamless. That's how I felt. then fast forward to about a couple of weeks in I'm like, Oh, I'm not like, let me figure out how to apply for my residency. Not as stuff, [00:20:00] I didn't have all this stuff planned. I didn't know COVID was gonna hit, tourist visa is  only three months for, for Portugal by the way.

[00:20:05] So this is why I was on a tight timescale. And then I realized you cannot apply for your residency visa while you're already in the country. You have to apply from your home country. I am heartbroken. Cause I'm like, I got to go back to the United States. I was like, ah, so I eventually had to go back. I stayed my full three months though. Had the best summer ever. Lisbon was great. I mean, really good to me. I could still have visitors from London. It was just really a great time. cause people here respect the rules. They worry less, they follow the rules. Like it was no, it's not a political thing, to protect and do things in the best interest of other people's wellbeing.

[00:20:41] And so I had a great summer, went back to the States. Oh, my gosh. I was like, I felt like I was in Twilight zone the entire time, because that's when everything, you know a lot, the election, all this stuff was happening and it was just overwhelming for me. and so I couldn't wait to get back and then I didn't know if I can get approved or not. So they finally approved my visa. and then I came back. So I've only been back now for about a little bit over a month and it's been great. Just getting settled in again, but I was like, I don't know what I was going to do. I didn't have a plan B if they didn't approve my visa.

[00:21:14]Nyra: [00:21:14] but ended up setting up two on edge 

[00:21:17] Guest: [00:21:17] on edge, checking my email every five seconds, having dreams about it and everything.  

[00:21:24] Nyra: [00:21:24] Definitely done it differently. Now, in hindsight, 

[00:21:28] Guest: [00:21:28] for one, you know, just understand the VISA  process. I would tell everyone. I think before, because I was on my gap year, I was like, Oh, I'm just going to, you know, be on tourist visa because I'm not working. I literally was just, but what ended up happening? Cause I, I started my own company during the holidays and that's how the ex-pat app and all these other things started, was during this pandemic. So things definitely how. I had plans and the universe had other plans 

[00:21:58] Nyra: [00:21:58] pushing you [00:22:00] towards something, but very nerve wracking. And I think, you know, it's important to tell that side. Yes. You know, the expat life, when it's you, and you're a single person, maybe willing to take some of those risks, but even still, if you're in a career, if you're trying to make an exit, if you're trying to transition, career wise and lifestyle wise, it pains. To take a little bit of time to, you know, to, do the, do the research, to get the necessary, you know, contact information, the necessary information to protocols and procedures, you know, because there are certain things that are just really kind of, it is what it is.

[00:22:44] And again, like I said earlier, it's like, you know, once you have, I think you, you, your once you have all of the information that is like the basic and primary information, then anything that gets changed that are nuances, it's a lot less impactful to you. you know, like, okay, I can manage this. I have been you  know , in the spaces that you've been, and I've helped people who were in the spaces that you've been who did not play well, who had, and I think I've spoken about this before, you know, someone who was brought over by company and then they will on a 90 day visit visa and they weren't supposed to be working, but they worked, and they never processed their resident visa. So then they became an overstay and by the time they realized they had tacked on people do like $6,000. 

[00:23:51] Guest: [00:23:51] Yes. people do not talk about that. I think it's worth mentioning the reason I was so adamant about, making sure I was doing things the right way. [00:24:00] I did not want to get hit with any fines cause they can fine you thousands of dollars or they can deny you from ever returning to that country.

[00:24:08] Nyra: [00:24:08] That's right. 

[00:24:09] Guest: [00:24:09] And I didn't want to risk it. Because I know how much I want to live abroad, and I didn't want to limit my options because I didn't follow the rules. So it's not really popular for people to like follow the actual residency process and all that stuff in the visa process. And it is an investment of time and money, but it is so worth the peace of mind that I have because now I'm here legally and I don't have to worry about. Doing visa runs. I don't have to worry about, every time I leave, if I'm going to get fined or caught, you know? 

[00:24:36] Nyra: [00:24:36] Right. 

[00:24:39] Guest: [00:24:39] Yeah. And a lot of people do it and I think, pre-covid it was a lot easier, but I think Covid has definitely changed these borders closed. Opened overnight rules, change requirements change. So, just something to consider because, even when you plan for the best, I mean, there are so many things that are out of our control. 

[00:24:55] Nyra: [00:24:55] When you took a position, in London, did they have an in-house person that helped you with the whole transition with visas and things? How did that process, was that smooth?

[00:25:06]Guest: [00:25:06] I won’t say the  word smooth? Cause it's still, you know, just the whole process. It takes time and all those things, but, if they were, if they had someone in house that handled it, we have a team, a relocation team on both sides, actually on the US side and the UK side. So the receiving country in your home country and they took care of the visa costs. They took care of the processing. I was just sending them information and they did all the work. That's a totally different story from what I experienced this time around for Portugal, where, one, I'm an entrepreneur. Like I am, you know what I'm saying? I don't have a company sponsoring me a separate outside company.

[00:25:40] And then two. I have to go through and justify all of these things and find all the paperwork and meet all the requirements. So it's a bit nerve wracking because my company just started officially on paper in November, even though I started in, like kind of working on it in, in may, but not enough to generate enough income, to prove the income [00:26:00] requirement that you need. So for me, and I'm open about this because I don't want anyone to think like, Oh, you can move abroad, you know, start your own company, start making money. You know, like that's not how it went for me. what I provided for my income stuff was just my savings, you know? Cause I'd saved money for this whole abroad move.

[00:26:16] Cause it does cost money. I think some people think they can just save up enough to get them abroad. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. You need settling in money. You need, deposits, you know, so many things that you don't think about. That first month is always more expensive because you're buying things for the first time, right. That you're going to need it. I don't think people always ask like how much I'm like, well, depends on your lifestyle. But I also think a lot of people underestimate how much it costs to move abroad. Right? 

[00:26:41] Nyra: [00:26:41] Yeah, it does. And you know, and I wanted to get into the finances. So when you were talking about, you know, because you knew that you wanted to, you know, stop working, you want to take a gap year. you didn't know, at that time you were going to be starting a business. but what did, you said you started, you know, after your father died, you know, you were starting to save more aggressively. Was there a formula that you discovered that was really, you know, something that, you know, that one could make sense.

[00:27:11] Guest: [00:27:11] That makes sense. 

[00:27:13] Nyra: [00:27:13] Trying to plan. 

[00:27:15] Guest: [00:27:15] Yeah, absolutely. So for me, couple of things, I had three funds that I had said I'm pretty good financially. So I'm very disciplined. first was my emergency fund and that was the priority fund that I finished. Like, I had already had some money saved, but I think I only had three months’ worth saved, like to cover myself for three months. So I upped that to six months because I was just like, you know, when, when I take a gap year, it may take me longer than. You know, to get back into a routine where I'm making money. So that's, that was my first fund, which was six times my monthly cost of living. Right. and then next I set up a business fund and then I set up a quick fund.

[00:27:49] actually the, the quick fund  I was funding first and then the business might last, but the quick fund was how much is it going to cost me to sustain myself for a whole year? So I just took my monthly cost of living. And again, [00:28:00] because I was going to be traveling. It looked different than what it looked like in Michigan or in, you know what I mean? Like wherever I was going to be. So I just said, okay, whatever it is, I'm going to add a little bit something extra to it because I'll be traveling. Right. You know? and I did that time swell [word not clear].. That was another amount. And then the last one was, my business fund. And for my business fund, I just saved 25 K because in my mind, when I was ready to hit, go to start my business.

[00:28:24] I didn't want anyone stopping me. And at the time I did not know what this doesn't be starting. I just knew that there at some point want to start my own business and I didn't want to have to rely on other people for it to get started. Cause I understand like the importance of timing and being out and just putting yourself out into the market, you know? but in the end, I mean, I know that sounds like a lot, but I had to like really be, I have to be comfortable. I was not doing this to. I was like, I wasn't working this hard. So that I could sit there and struggle in my gap year. So I ended up total saving 100 K, but it was like, you gotta understand that emergency fund business fund, gap year fund.

[00:29:00] So, and I saved that over for time, like it wasn't like no overnight thing. And I was, when I say I started saving aggressively, I moved into a studio, you know what I mean? Which cut my expenses so much?  If I want to have a nice little luxury car, Nope. Got a used car. And then the other thing was, I used to spend a lot of money traveling, like a lot of money traveling and I cut back and started doing cheaper trips and then using my, hotel in, in telltale points and my points from flying to, to take those trips. So I did that for two to three years and that's how. You know what I mean? Because I already had some money. I wasn't starting from zero. So I just want to, I know it sounds like a lie, but it's like now I can be really comfortable and I'm not stressing myself out because you've set yourself up financially with some runway financial runway.

[00:29:46] Nyra: [00:29:46] Right. Right. And I think it's important to also note that when you save a hundred thousand, a hundred thousand means something very different. Depending on where you're going 100 thousand in US can go [00:30:00] down super-fast

[00:30:01] Guest: [00:30:01] Oh London, London, London was blowing money fast in London. Okay. It didn't make any sense. And I had to leave too, because I was like, I can spend half of what I was spending in London here in Lisbon and have a better quality of life in Lisbon in regard to where I'm living and things like that. And so I had to be smart because when the pandemic hit, I'm like, I'm still doing my gap year. Timing is everything right. and so you're able to have a certain Liberty at which you can move forward with things and ideas. That's really powerful. So I do encourage people I'm really big on financial management. Just really understand your financial position. and I promise people, you, if you just do the numbers, you can save it takes a while though.

[00:30:46] None of that, that saving didn't happen overnight, but just do the numbers, do the numbers and look at what your cost of living is and what it's going to take for you to, to meet your financial goals for whatever you desire to do, whether it's a business or whether it's, going abroad, taking a gap year. I would say that too, because I mean, even with the pandemic. Like, I'm so glad I have this emergency fund because I haven't had to tap into it yet, but in the back of my mind, yeah. I'm like, thank God I have an emergency plan. And the other thing too, I want to stress, which is something that I did during, I didn't plan on doing part of what came out of that business fund.

[00:31:21] I started because of the pandemic I was bored. I was like, you know, we're just sitting this one we're on full lock down or whatever. In London, I started investing in courses. And that came out of my business fund. I didn't take it out of my gap year fund, and I'd never thought about personal development during the gap year and how I was gonna pay for it. It wasn't even on my radar, everything was awesome. Eat, pray, love type stuff. I was not thinking about how was I going to pour back into myself during this time off. Right. Right. And the first course I took, I hit the jackpot with, it was an amazing life changing course. I took it with Glo Tahmoh. She has a blog like a boss course when I thought I wanted to blog.

[00:31:57] I'm not That [00:32:00] course changed my thought process, into one of more of an abundance mindset, transparency, the power of walking in your truth. I used to hold everything near and dear to my heart. I don't want anyone to know my business. I don't want to know any, and it's so funny. The second, like she taught us how to open up and share and walk in your truth and share your story. It just changed my life because you, when you, when you hold all of your, share your highs, but share your lows too. You want to know why there's someone dealing with depression. There's someone dealing with weight issues here, loss, death in their family, underlying health condition. And, and you, you miss the opportunity to inspire or help somebody because you're hiding things at some, some random shame that you shouldn't have.

[00:32:43] Nyra: [00:32:43] Right. That's also like that it comes, that's very cultural, 

[00:32:49] Guest: [00:32:49] very don't air, our dirty laundry. 

[00:32:51] Nyra: [00:32:51] There you go. You know, you keep it in the family, you know, you don't let people out of the family know about what you've gone through. It's really ruined us, really broken us in many ways that that requires a whole another episode to talk

[00:33:06] Guest: [00:33:06] you hit nail on the head.

[00:33:08] Nyra: [00:33:08] You said, eat, pray, love. You know, we, we always see the white woman going out there having her moment and for, you know, you know, people of color, it's like, that's a luxury. If you plan, right. And you can take the time to work with yours. 

[00:33:30] Guest: [00:33:30] Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know. I always wanted to do these things, but. I don't know to see him. My dad passed right before retirement. It just, it was like, I refuse to live like, and the way, the way that I was living my life at the time, I was probably going to beat him. You know what I mean, time or age wise? Cause I had a very unhealthy lifestyle. I'm always go, go, go, go, go. I was ignoring some underlying health conditions, which I didn't know at the time what it was. And and finally. Figured out what [00:34:00] was causing. I was having these fainting spells and dizzy spells and actually fainting and passing out one, landed me in the hospital. And that's when I finally was like, I'm gonna take my stuff seriously. this would be for my gap year and found that I had a condition called Chiari malformation, which was causing the fainting spells in me to have to be dizzy all the time and vertigo and all the other stuff.

[00:34:19] And, it's, you know, something, you either have to get like a really major surgery done or you just live with it. But I also knew that stress is it further exasperated the symptoms; you know what I mean? So I was like, change my lifestyle. You know what I mean? I can, you know, fix a bit or maybe not fix, but it alleviates some of the symptoms. And I can happily say, like, since I've been in Lisbon, I have not had a single fainting spell. I have not had a dizzy spell. My vertigo has been very limited. it's a lifestyle change, right? and I wouldn't change the Liberty at which I live my life now for the world, 

[00:34:54] Nyra: [00:34:54] but one of the things I want to explore a little bit more is, you know, you talked about, you know, you started this business. I want to talk about how, why ex-pats Inc. 

[00:35:06] Guest: [00:35:06] Oh yeah. So it was very personal for me. So one thing, you know, when I moved abroad the first time that was out of sheer curiosity, right. I was just really curious. and when I moved abroad and I started experiencing life differently and came back to the States, I felt like I was like, I want more people to have this experience. Like, I really want more people to understand that this is not the only way you have to live. And I'm saying this as a black woman, I got treated so much better, abroad, not just at work, but socially dating, like, and you know, we think dating is so hard. I was like, dating was great abroad. I loved it.

[00:35:45]I felt appreciated and. I feel like I had options. I'm curious about what it's like for other black women abroad in certain countries, right. That I was looking at on my list. I had Portugal on my list and a couple [00:36:00] other countries. and so I started doing some research, came across, A woman named cinnamon. Her page is called driven spice on YouTube. She was living in Portugal because I couldn't, I was having trouble finding black people in Portugal. Like what has their experience been? I know there are black people here, but you don't have colonized so many different countries, but I wanted to really know, like, what was your experience like as a black American?

[00:36:19] So we had a quick chat, it was a great conversation. And I was like, man, I wish more people could have heard this conversation. And so that gave me the idea of expat chats, is sharing the stories of black ex-pats living abroad. It just started out as a passion project between me and my best friend. She was doing her own passion project for a student career studio, which is her passion project. I was working on ex-pat chats and every, you know, we would check in every Monday had our passion project meetings. You know, the whole gap year was to start working on some passion stuff to passion projects in.

[00:36:50] It eventually turned into like a whole, like when I say, it was like, now this is my purpose. Now, you know what I mean? It wasn't just like, Oh, these little chats I wanted to on a bigger platform, connect black people abroad. and when I say black, I'm talking about anyone from the African diaspora. So whether you're Caribbean, you know, African, you know what I mean? Like that next, you know, black Afro Latina, I wanted you to be able to find each other abroad. And so that's when I decided to do the app because I was actually going to be developing the app for something else. And then

[00:37:23] I started a different app idea. It didn't work out, because I just got exhausted. I, it was too much work. And then, the idea of, I was like, you know what? I want to do a directory for black ex-pats and I want it to be an app. And that's how I came up with the idea for the app. So I did some research and I was like, I don't have the technical abilities to build it myself. Like I thought I did. And I tried to, I took a course for that too. And that's when I decided I was like, I'm going to hire a third party to build this app for me. I have the design, I have the content. I just need someone to do the technical aspects for me. Right. Like the actual code, the database, all that stuff.

[00:37:57] And, ended up finding a company in the [00:38:00] UK, been super happy working with them, but I was able to get my app launch in 2020. So new year's cause I made a personal goal to myself. Once I found the app developers, I was like, you know what? This app is going live. This year in 2020. And so I actually publicly launched, 15 minutes before 2021.

[00:38:20] Nyra: [00:38:20] How have you used yourself as the living passport for change? 

[00:38:26] Guest: [00:38:26] Oh, the biggest thing is, like I said, being a resource to people, right. Whether it's through ex-pat chats, whether it's through the app or just my own I'm meeting, amazing people while I'm abroad. Right. and you it's, it's such a, it takes a certain level of courage to move abroad. So you do meet a certain type of person. You know what I mean? People are pretty courageous and just making sure we share, I like their stories. I want, I want people to know. There are so many different ways of life. Some of it is just exposure, right? And you can literally change someone's life just by even you being exposed.

[00:38:57] Right. Even me being exposed like this is how I'm like, Oh, I can live my life differently and you can literally change people's lives. And by being transparent and being open. Don't be afraid to show you a story. And that's what I've been trying to do is share my story more. I appreciate you for having this forum and yours is so unique because of the fact that like you're getting down to the nitty-gritty, right? I love that you see in the world is also the importance of how the world views us as well. You know what I mean? Like how we take, how we're viewed abroad, and it changes things. And I encourage people to think about that aspect of it, because yes, you want to enlighten people about life abroad, but you also want to enlighten people abroad about our lives

[00:39:41] Nyra: [00:39:41] Right, Right, there you go