In this episode, KDLS Global Consultant and Expat Kevin Simpson talk about how he became a change-maker in the international education arena. He describes his journey starting with how a contest was the impetus for his global leap, not waiting to be invited to "lean-in" at the table, and the power of the expat contract.
Flint, Michigan native Kevin Simpson owns and operates KDSL Global, a leading learning organization. He and his team have served thousands of schools, educators, and leaders worldwide in over 25 countries. Since 2008, he has been focused on education in the MENA region, assisted numerous schools with accreditation, training, development, and served as a thought partner with investors on school start-up projects. Simpson is co-founder of the UAE Learning Network, leads the GCC ASCD Connected Community, and founded the Association of International Educators and Leaders of Color. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Education and a Master of Education degree in Curriculum and Teaching from Michigan State University.
www.kdslglobal.com
KDSL Global Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/globalkdsl
KDSL Global Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kdslglobal
In this episode, KDLS Global Consultant and Expat Kevin Simpson talk about how he became a change-maker in the international education arena. He describes his journey starting with how a contest was the impetus for his global leap, not waiting to be invited to "lean-in" at the table, and the power of the expat contract.
Flint, Michigan native Kevin Simpson owns and operates KDSL Global, a leading learning organization. He and his team have served thousands of schools, educators, and leaders worldwide in over 25 countries. Since 2008, he has been focused on education in the MENA region, assisted numerous schools with accreditation, training, development, and served as a thought partner with investors on school start-up projects. Simpson is co-founder of the UAE Learning Network, leads the GCC ASCD Connected Community, and founded the Association of International Educators and Leaders of Color. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Education and a Master of Education degree in Curriculum and Teaching from Michigan State University.
www.kdslglobal.com
KDSL Global Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/globalkdsl
KDSL Global Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kdslglobal
Nyra: [00:01:57] let's get started right now. So tell [00:02:00] me Kevin, where you're from. Where are you at right now? Because we are recording in COVID and pandemic. And but talk about your journey from where you started from and you can choose any point you want to, to how you got to your first assignment abroad or got abroad.
[00:02:17] Kevin: [00:02:17] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I always like to start with, I'm a kid from Flint, Michigan. That's, you know, where I was born raised. That's where it began. That's all that's going to always be home, so that's always home base. So whenever I was. You know, working, living, traveling overseas. When I, when someone said, where are you from Flint, Michigan, that's home. So I always like to start here, you know, born in the latter part of the seventies and grew up in the eighties, you know, eighties baby grew up in a time when general motors, general motors was had a heavy presence in.
[00:02:50]You know, Michigan and Flint. So, you know, grew up with the Ford, general motors, Chrysler, you know auto body and automobile industry, you know, so a lot of my aunties worked in that industry. My mom worked in that industry. And so that was, you know, my beginning. That's what I knew, you know, so I also knew and heard and a lot of people who would say when I graduate, you know, I'm going to work for GM.
[00:03:14] I'm going to, this is sort of what I'm going to do. So you heard that at times a lot. And I know when we were growing up, you know, mom was big on books, you know, bringing us books, different topics books from, you know, people who look like us, authors, you know, who look like us. I remember we got before the Mayflower or, you know, to get some history that we weren't quite getting in school. You know, I remember getting books. Topics from around the world, Egypt. And so that was always a thing. And then growing up, you know, we always went to Detroit. I always went to South Carolina, you know, where my mom and her family were from. So, you know, it was always that hanging out with cousins and aunts and uncles, grandparents from all over.
[00:03:50] So we always took road trips, you know, and I say a lot of this because I think that was where my comfort in travel came from. You know, we took these [00:04:00] trips to Florida, you know, going to Disney. We took these trips to New York. We took these trips to the Carolinas and around Michigan and, you know, I. So early on, I didn't, I didn't have a passport, you know, a passport didn't enter my life until I entered a contest with a magazine that from long ago called YSP
[00:04:29] Nyra: [00:04:29] age? Right up there with you. Don't worry. But I remember.
[00:04:34] Kevin: [00:04:34] And I remember, I can remember I was in college. I said, sort of flash forward. I was at Michigan state university, sophomore, second year, 19 years old. And I was getting YSP magazine, you know, getting their editions every month. I get one. It was like won a free trip to Africa and it's like, go to this page, fill out this form. I mean, this date. So filling out the form, mailed it back in. I get a call saying, Hey, is this Kevin Simpson? Like, yes, You won a free trip to Africa?
[00:05:03] Nyra: [00:05:03] That is a first I have to say to my ears. A contest which was due to get a passport.
[00:05:11] Kevin: [00:05:11] That was my introduction to getting a pass for introduction to leaving the U S. And a different type of spring break. So, you know, everyone else is going to Florida. I am , going to West Africa to Boneen, you know? And so that was the introduction. So I literally had, you know, it was all expenses paid flight. You just had to have your passport and you had to get from New York, you know, they flew from New York to Hutanu . So I had myself and another person can go, and of course I was like, mom, you want to go, you know, cause all of my exposure, and she was like , like I'm not going
[00:05:53] Nyra: [00:05:53] that's a roadblock for a lot of people. Yeah,
[00:05:56] Kevin: [00:05:56] Nope. Which is interesting because later on she ended up coming to the UAE. So I brought her to the [00:06:00] United Arab Emirates twice. So she did get on a long flight. But so I asked my cousin, she was a, then an administrator in New York, And she was like, let's go, I'm going. So, cause I had to, you know, go to New York to matriculate through to Africa and yeah, that was my, that was my opening to the world of international travel. Being someplace outside of my context, outside of Flint, outside of the US we were there for like two weeks, all expenses paid. I mean, we interacted, and we had daily trips around.
[00:06:31] We have the tour guide at a car hotel. I mean, you name it. They laid it out for us. You know, we went to a village on sticks. We visited Kings. We saw temple with pythons. I mean, when I say exposure art, I mean, we just, we took as much in as possible. And that was the seed. I mean, that was the, the, it just was the seed right there. So that was the memorable that first again, time outside of the US. Knowing and understanding that this is possible, you know, to travel overseas somewhere else. And just the amount of learning that went on with that trip in terms of myself how I saw myself, how others saw me and it, I guess it built in that being comfortable being outside of what I know. You know, to get started and being overseas. So that was a short-term trip, but those, those two weeks really changed my life.
[00:07:25] Nyra: [00:07:25] So that's a great, great introduction. So now you've had all that exposure. You've come back to the United States. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you talk to your friends after that? Like, you know, what is it, what is it like after, after a experience like that?
[00:07:42] Kevin: [00:07:42] Exactly. So, I mean, it was sort of crazy because it's like, Hey, we wanna interview for the state news. Hey, you know, so it's like, you know, local news interviews and interviews at home, you know, it's like, you know, just old school. So before we had, you know, like the you know, the iPhones and all of our gadgets and social media, you know, we're old school pictures, we print it out. [00:08:00] So. With people in different know conversations with classmates at university and things of that nature. So they can see as well as like, things are brought back for friends, you know, we went shopping.
[00:08:10] So it's like stuff that I brought back for folks who I know. For family members artifacts and things of that nature. So but yeah, it was, it was one of those, again, mind blowing to say, you know, Oh, for spring break, Oh, I'm going to Africa, you know, and it wasn't like a study abroad, you know, that it was a trip that was fully paid for.
[00:08:29] Nyra: [00:08:29] So now you're okay. So now you're a star. You finished your studies, obviously, right? So what happens after college?
[00:08:39] Kevin: [00:08:39] After college. I so I sort of toggled between, did I want to do policy and education? So I was a dual major in elementary education and social relations policy at Michigan state. And I ended up going, it was not even a week after I graduated. I went to Washington DC, so I was a white house intern. And then I worked a little bit with Senator Barbara boxer's office. So that was sort of my introduction for policy and trying to figure out is this what I want to do, or do I want to do education? I will see I'm being in education for over 20 years. So it was the education route that I ended up taking over. Oh
[00:09:15] Nyra: [00:09:15] yes. But I want to did the social, the social part is very interesting because you know, you're talking, I'm sure that it has somehow that it's just that knowledge base has played some role. Especially in, and we'll get to that starting your business abroad, but bring us, how do you, how do you, when did you go into education and what kind of, what teacher, what did you teach?
[00:09:44] Kevin: [00:09:44] So, when I first started, I was a middle school, so I was like grades five to eight in Washington, DC, and I taught English and social studies. So I taught it on a focus school for a year and then decided within that year I went to go back and start my master's and finish [00:10:00] up all my paperwork in the state of Michigan, because I thought at that point, I know might want to teach and work in either Flint or Detroit. But unfortunately, that next year after I finished, you know, there weren't jobs available. So I had to look outside once I finished audit certification paperwork, and getting the master's of education from Michigan state. So I ended up in Virginia. So, yeah, we ended up in Fairfax County in Virginia.
[00:10:22] Nyra: [00:10:22] So tell me what, what launched your ex-pat career? Like how, how did you get abroad? Did you win another contest?
[00:10:37] Kevin: [00:10:37] So you know what I did? So then when it kind of is because I met someone who looked like me. So when I was in grad school, I met another another brother who looked like me, who we were in the same graduate class. And he said, he just said, we were just talking. And then we were talking about class and school and then he just mentioned, he said, Oh, at the end of the summer, when I'm done, I'm going back to London, went back to England. And so I sorta looked like, wait a minute. Huh? You know, what'd you and I'm like, let's have lunch because of course I'm like no one else in our program was saying anything that sounded like that. You know, very distinct. And so him and I had lunch and he introduced me to all things of international schools around the world opportunities to teaching and learning around the world, recruitment, the different organizations and companies when they what their cycles were like.
[00:11:23] And I literally just, you know, just took copious notes. You know, I thanked them and sort of like put that stuff on the side, like, you know, I'll do that one day. Cause that point, that point it was like 2001. So it was like 2000when I interacted with him. But then fast forward, five years later, I had a mentee who was like, Oh, I'm going to teach in Sudan cartoon is the international schools, American international school there. I'm going to apply. I got accepted. I'm gonna be a teach international schoolteacher there for three years. Again, someone who looks like me. So it was like, Hmm. Okay. So now, you know, I have first individual, I had a second individual, let me go ahead on and look up these opportunities.
[00:11:58] And so I looked [00:12:00] and started to apply and I applied with CIS council international schools went through their portal and filled out information. That's the one that he shared with me and was contacted by some schools. And they had like a recruitment with another group that was happening in Virginia. And so I was like, Oh, that's what go, you know, go to, you know, face to face, meet people. And I had like offers in like Dubai, Egypt in Asia and, you know, from that, it was like, okay. So I talked to, and I think the ones where I felt most comfortable. Where I didn't have to ask a lot of questions. Cause they were very upfront.
[00:12:35] They provided a lot of information about housing, flight, preparation. Before you leave timing, what I would do, I mean, they provided everything. health insurance, you know, once you arrive right. Everything was laid out and it's like, Oh, by the way, here's Bruce. He'll be your mentor. If you have additional questions beyond what we can answer. Here you go. Oh, here's Jody, she's looks over the primary school. You have anything school related curriculum later ask her. So they were very, like, they put all their information out.
[00:13:07] Nyra: [00:13:07] And so they were scooping you right into their community and letting you know that you were in safe hands before you even signed the contract. Right. And you know, and it doesn't always happen actually. So I mean, you know, now that doesn't always happen, but when they do lay it out that way does make a person who's, especially if it's their first assignment, any assignment, but definitely the first assignment to sign a contract, you know You want to feel like, you know, where am I going? I'm, I'm, I'm landing in this place. I'm about to live someplace and you know, what, under what circumstances am I going to be living there? So you chose you chose, was it Dubai?
[00:13:49] Kevin: [00:13:49] No. So I chose
[00:13:50] Nyra: [00:13:50] Vientiane Lau.
[00:13:51] Kevin: [00:13:51] So for me, I was in Southeast Asia. So I started off about 2007 in Vientiane Lau. I was a grade five teacher. And [00:14:00] then again, they also said there was going to be additional openings. So the thing about them, they were like, Oh, we noticed, cause at that point I had been a curriculum specialist. I did a little bit of consulting. They're like, Oh, we noticed, you know, on your resume, you did this work. We're going to have some opening for a curriculum coordinator, which they did, which I applied, which I had that job, you know?
[00:14:18] So they didn't just say it. They also did it. Yeah. Yeah. And again, that's. That was my beginning international education now all the other placements. And I, because I always go back to John Ritter, John Ritter was the head of school and I always go back to him. And so when I go to Thailand, because I'm an adjunct professor with Framingham state university. So when I go to Bangkok to teach a class face to face during the summer, he, him and I always connect, you know, him and I, .
[00:14:51] I always say. I am very grateful that I started my international school teaching career with you. And that the process that you all had, that, you know, how laid out it was, how comfortable I was, I'm white, because that is not,
[00:15:06] Nyra: [00:15:06] it's not the norm. Yeah. It really isn't. You know? And it's not to say that other. I mean, there are some schools that do they give you what they can, you know, and what they have. Right. And so, and they're up front, with that. But a lot of times, you know, especially with recruiters to them, they think it's not within their it's not to their advantage to be fully upfront because you might not sign, you know, but at the same time, they also put themselves in another position because you know, people land. And we get back on the plane and go home, you know randomly happens. Yes, the turnaround time, you know, you want somebody that's a really a truly a match and that, and that's a piece that I don't think they,always get you know, very few, very, very few schools get that part. As far as recruiters are concerned. Yeah. But that's amazing. So it's almost like [00:16:00] it was meant for you and I, and I get that. I get like, you know, I get that. You know that experience in, in that respect. So you, you were in Thailand.
[00:16:10] Kevin: [00:16:10] I worked in Vientiane Lau but yeah i was in Thailand,
[00:16:15] Nyra: [00:16:15] And then from Thailand, you did that for two years. I mean, I'm sorry vientiane Lau for two years. And then you went to
[00:16:21] Kevin: [00:16:21] well, I came back to the U S so after finishing them out, came back to the U S was based out of the U S back in the Virginia area for a little bit, and then went to, I was in Qatar for a bit. So I was working with a company. And again, it's where you get into the difference. So I was working with a company that was, had a contract with the Supreme education council, which is like their department education. At that point, they don't have it there anymore. And so it was a being a mentor. So it would be working at a sort of local government school. So all the students would be Qatari. The teachers, all boys school, all the teachers would be men. They were from all over and it was just work as a mentor within the department. So going in and doing some co-teaching mentoring teachers doing some professional development. And I only, I'm not going to be, I only stayed there for a month.
[00:17:10] Nyra: [00:17:10] It was like, yeah, I had enough I would like for you to share why it was just a month, because I think it's important to mention that sometimes you, you will not have a good fit and why.
[00:17:23] Kevin: [00:17:23] Exactly. And I think, again, it goes back to, like I said, with the Vientiane Lau experience. You know, that's what, that's what I, that was my mentality. That's what I understood going in.
[00:17:34] Nyra: [00:17:34] That was just a bar right there.
[00:17:39] Kevin: [00:17:39] Oh, now I get the Qatar and it's like, you will have housing, you have transportation or you can get a driver, you know, you have your flight, you know, one way and they'll send you back home. You'll have, you know, salary. Here are your workout and I'm not gonna, like the little work hours are like 7:00 AM to 1:00 PM. I mean, it was exactly. And so it's like, [00:18:00] I arrived there and no one was paid there to pick me up at the airport, housing. It was like, where am I staying? So it was like, well, the housing is in the works.
[00:18:12] So I'm going to have to stay with somebody else who had a two bedroom. And it was almost trying to figure out, did this person know that I was going to be, you know, so again, so I'm walking into, walking into new country, was like, wait a minute. Are we really prepared and ready? You know, for the arrival of not only myself, but others who are coming over here and the work environment was great, like right away, making progress meeting and getting to know like the team and the teachers and other team of professional development specialist while I was working with.
[00:18:44] So that wasn't an issue. It was the not having everything together, issue filling like the paperwork or everything that was said and stated wasn't being done. And again, it was so, I mean, I had to, it was one of those things where I had to make that decision. Do I stay here for six months, you know, instead of risky or do I just depart, you know, early and say, okay, it's a rapid in work. And I chose the latter. I was like, it's, you know, it's just a, it just, I felt like the, like I said, the work environment was good. I didn't have an issue with that. It was the living. That piece of thing, right? It's like, Oh, your house is now rigged. Okay. Without what we were promised and what was delivered.
[00:19:29] Nyra: [00:19:29] And this is somewhat to highlight because. You might think you signed a contract or first year offer letter and then your contract, and then you get on the plane and get on the other side. And the contract is not just what seems like it's binding you to the, to the job, but it's also to see if this. Place that you're coming to is going to fulfill their end of the bargain. And sometimes they just, for whatever reason and there's many different reasons, but they just don't fulfill that end of [00:20:00] the bargain. And so you have to just say, Hey, look, this is not going to work. You know? Cause that's, you're, you're breaching the contract, you know.
[00:20:07]So I absolutely wanted to highlight that because I think for listeners. You do your due diligence and you do the best of your ability and, and you know, and it's like with anything, you sign a contract and you just trust that it will be fulfilled, but you always have the option to say, Hey look, you know, it's just not going to work. You go back to the States.
[00:20:27] Kevin: [00:20:27] Yep. Went back to the state short term in the midst of that, I had some folks say, Hey, there's this new school opened up in Dubai, check it out. Here's the link. And then my one of my buddies, we went to Michigan state. He had, he moved back to Dubai. So I knew somebody there, you know, an hour by I'll get over here. It's a lagging on education. You'll figure it out. So December was that December, 2008, I left, left, went to Virginia Short term and went right back on the plane and went right back to the middle East to the Gulf region and was part of a new school start up in Dubai. And again, they had, now this time it was again had on paper, put in a brand [word not clear]..
[00:21:07] So again, We said we would do this. They flew me over right now. They were like, the house is going to be ready in a couple months, but you are in a, here are the pictures and here is the hotel that's fully furnished. Everything's all inclusive. So upfront about that. And I'm very comfortable and it was it was a good experience. I was with them for a year and a half before coming back to the States. But then at that time it was like, I started doing a little bit of travel within the region. So I started doing like some accreditation work with like what was formally advanced ed [word not clear].. So I did some work in like it was Egypt and Lebanon.
[00:21:42] So I did a couple of like just accreditation visits. And I started doing a little bit of work with orgs in groups and entrepreneurs in Dubai. Just anything from like doing like a little bit of poetry to like education, innovation, meetups work with the people behind TEDx, Dubai. And so I think seeing that side and [00:22:00] seeing the entrepreneur ecosystem that was in Dubai maybe all the more of, you know, sort of hungry and say, you know, this is possible, you know, so to, let me take a break. Go back, regroup, you know, 2010 the contract was up. And so I took up not even, yeah, less than a year before I came back in 2011 and started working with American curriculum schools.
[00:22:20] I came back came back to the States, was doing some training and consultant work and then went over and then one sort of international American school in Dubai had asked us some poor [word not clear].. And then I ended up, I think, doing like a training session and that led to like a bunch of other schools, which led to like Pearson work, which led to work in the middle East, North Africa was led to work in like Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, out of nowhere.
[00:22:47]Which was great. And a part of it I'm not gonna play came back to John Ritter, my first head of school and Vincen Lau. So I reached out to John. I was like, Hey John, just checking in. And he's like, Oh, what'd you been up to? I said, Oh, I'm doing a little bit consultant where he's like, Oh, I'm gonna introduce you to some people. All of a sudden, I get these six emails. He introduced me to all these international education associations. Next thing you know, I got an invite to go to Johannesburg south Africa, got an invite to go to Columbia. I was getting these invites to go to these conferences and speak. And going to those conferences led to work in this way, LA on Doris.
[00:23:19] I mean it just by road, out of nowhere. So that was 2011 to 2019, like heavy travel worked in, I think. So I worked in about 25 countries that team worked in over 30 countries. Again, most of America critical schools, anything from providing support around curriculum, teaching, learning new school startup some school improvement. Just helping them with you know, coaching and just as support as needed, you know? And I think it sort of went from You know, sort of wanting to work with schools today and being able to be sort of picky and choosy as to who we work with. Like, all right, we'll work with these schools or, okay. These schools want to work.
[00:23:55] This is what the requirements are, you know, it's a work with us. And then that sort of led to work with [00:24:00] different organizations and companies. So cause we were setting up like institutes, you know, for science setting up institutes and conferences, bringing people around the middle East together because everybody want to come to Dubai. So it was like, let's just hub. You know, all our conferences are institutes for here. People fly in doing webinars. Again, people could chime in from all over the region. And again, the big focus was all online learning and what people needed. I think that was the thing. So in setting up the company, which operated out of Dubai 2013 to 2020 was.
[00:24:28]What do people need? What do they want to learn? And then how could we, you know, just facilitate, you know, big ideas, things that were going on in the U S that people didn't necessarily want to fly back or fly to the U S to get. So how can we bring people over physically or virtually,
[00:24:42] Nyra: [00:24:42] well, let me ask you this, since it seems like you did some heavy work and I mean, this is how I know you through consulting and through Katie ASL [word not clear]., you know, and, but I never knew. You know, the, the journey to that, you know? And so now that I'm I'm hearing is I think it's a really interesting thing that you, as a person of color that is out in the world, helping curriculum, helping to develop teachers and schools and things like that and get them to certain standards for accreditation.
[00:25:15]What can you say? How have you. Have you as a person felt, I guess the way to frame that the two phrases is how have you, as a person been affected by this work, what has changed for you?
[00:25:32] Kevin: [00:25:32] I think for me, the biggest change is I think going back to, I think you said earlier is like, Just knowing what's possible. I think back to when I started, which was back in 2007. So when I first got back from being Vinchen Lau, I said, I want to work in, because again, that had that experience. So you had not had that Africa experience, you know, changed me and then I'll have this I've lived and worked overseas for a couple of years, changed me.
[00:25:58] So when I was starting in [00:26:00] KSL in USA, it was, I want to do work in education around the world. And for me, I thought like, who do I know doing this? I was in like DC, Virginia area. A lot of like NGOs, you know, organizations that are there, some that are doing work all over. But I didn't really know a lot of people, you know, and then I know a lot of people who look like me, you know, doing the work. So it was, it really became that. All right. So what are you gonna do about it? You know what I mean? Like, if this is really what you want to do, you know, what do you need to read? Who do you need to connect with me? What questions you need to ask? I just, how do you get started? And I think it was that humble beginning.
[00:26:34] I remember that first summer I volunteered, it was a group called one more education out of DC. And they were taking the writing of high school students and creating curriculum out of their writing. It was a group of teachers that would get together and do that. And I just volunteer with them, you know, cause again, it was like that exposure, that experience and connecting and linking in with people. And then I remember somebody said, Hey this group that does work with a lot of different charter schools they're looking for consultants. And I remember again, blind emailing. It's a back then I was either email or calling. So I was emailing or calling people. They didn't know me, you don't, this is like, you know, introducing myself, you know, wanting to connect with them.
[00:27:10] And I remember I went and did, they said, Hey, can you come and do a 30-minute session for brand new teachers? And so that 30-minute free session led to a three-year contract. You know, and now I'm the woman who brought me on Dr. Mason and I'm on a board of her company, you know? And so I think a lot of it was wonderful. Yeah. It was just becoming; it was just taking that risk. You know, and really being willing to step out. Like I said, to ask those questions and being a learner myself, and like I said, being humbled to know that I need to volunteer, and I always tell them, you know, my $50 story. I remember the first time the 50$story is when I first started doing consultant work and someone said, you know how much per hour?
[00:27:52] I was not, I didn't know, $50. They said, yes, next person, 75. They said, yes, next a hundred. They said, yes, 125 they [00:28:00] said yes all the way up to 500 to a thousand. Everybody said yes. So I didn't even know how to put value and worth on, you know, me and my skillset when I knew what I could.
[00:28:11] Nyra: [00:28:11] And I, I completely understand that. Yeah.
[00:28:15]Kevin: [00:28:15] You know, and that was the learning, the learning it's part of what we do not do now is when I mentor, especially brand new, either ed consultants or startup entrepreneurs, is that letting them know, you know, how you have to put that, you know, you have to know how to value your services and your time, you know, I would say you pay for things in time.
[00:28:37] You know, it's not just a, you going to show up someplace. No, you did some work before you got there. You're going to do work when you are there and you're going to do work when you leave there, you know, there's this pre during and post. And so, but again, I had to learn that, you know, that came over time and then of course over time you'll have mentors have sponsors and those, I say, mentors and sponsors. Because a mentor can give me advice on, you know, what to do, what to read, what to learn patterns have is things that are coming up, but a sponsor can make a phone call or make an email and gave me work just off of their name or just off of introducing me to people. And that's how I had to figure out the difference between like, okay, so this person just recommends or say, I read this, but this person just sent these emails or just linked me to somebody who is now saying, Hey, can you come over here?
[00:29:21] You don't want to do this work. And so I think a lot of it now, now the big learning is. What was done for me is me doing that for others, you know, which is rooted in a lot of the work that I'm doing now. I like to say you know, I did a semi-retirement in 2017 when I left the middle East. Cause I virtually managed the company for three years, which again was a lot of me just behind the scenes.
[00:29:41]And using things like my maleness [word not clear].. So when it was like, they might want me, I'm like, Nope, we got a team. So, no, we got Sheena, we got Ashley, we got a team, we got all these people who could do this work. So you can, you know, we could, I could talk to you, but somebody else can come out here and deliver and do this a high quality, you know? And so I think a lot of [00:30:00] it was seeing that shift and then seeing that shift with a lot of the work around AILA , you know, our association international educators, and there was a color. You know, which is turning four next month which again started because when our colleagues was disrespected, you know, being told, you know, a black woman being told that, Nope, they want a white British man for that job, you know, and I was her reference.
[00:30:19] And so again, like I said, a lot of the learning and the doing now is rooted on, you know, I'm gonna do for others, what others did for me. You know, the John Ritter Bernard West, the Alastar Ron highs, you know, the Dr. Mary, all of, you know, Johnny, Dr. Gordon, all of my mentors and advisors, what they did and introduced or sent emails or introductions and stuff. So I think a lot of the work that I do nowadays is that is rooted in, in others. You know? So how can I be a, a source of support for others, whether they're entrepreneurs, teachers, leaders, aspiring leaders, and other roles.
[00:30:53] Nyra: [00:30:53] And living abroad, having different experiences of the traveling. Can you think of a situation because here's one thing like you have to work with teachers from all over the world and all of them have their own? Background on training or non-training. And yes, professionally, I'm sure that's presented some challenges, but just having to team build and work and bring everybody together, you know, can you talk about us maybe? Was there a struggle or was there a challenge and how'd you meet it? You know, how's, it changed you as a person and in your working relationships.
[00:31:34] Kevin: [00:31:34] Definitely. And there's a couple, I mean, I think of the team when I first moved to the United Arab Emirates to Dubai, so it was a startup team I was working with. It was middle years programs, a part of the international backward IB proper math team. And so you had Australia, Canada, United Kingdom, times two, Iran USA all on the same team. And I think it was like, [00:32:00] The beauty and the beast of it is trying to figure out, you know, cause I can just say it, we came from these different systems, different language spoken within the system starting with math’s, you know, just that alone sounds like, cause we say mathematics or math. Right, right, right, right.
[00:32:18] Yeah. But it did take this, you know, coming to understand, because I think. It ain't getting into the nitty-gritty of pedagogy, different styles, that some were more, you know, activity-based inquiry-based getting the kids to think about it versus let me, you extra to them. I mean, so again, we had these different styles going on. And then of course, within that you have different reactions from kids, you know, in terms of their learning and who they like and who they might not like, you know, and all of that. But again, you're part of a team. And so I think for us, it was that. Coming together and figuring out and pooling resources based on we are in Dubai in an international context.
[00:33:00]How best can we educate and ensure high quality learning of all these mathematicians? But what's the best, my best based on where we're from. I think that's where we sort of started. You know, because it was this sort of, you know, everybody's sort of doing their own thing until like, I, we had a great head of math, Carrie, she was stellar and it's still has been one of my best brand new team experiences. Meaning we were at that point, Carrie, there was, I think three of six had been there. They brought three of us on to start. And so the team grew bigger and I'm pulling it all together. Resource wise. And making sense of like the middle years program. Cause we, most of us were new to NYP, I think one or two weren't.
[00:33:39]But again, figure out where in a new country, you know, new math program building a new curriculum. Cause again, it was like, it wasn't like we arrived, and everything was all together. We're creating it. So it's like you get in the car together while you driving. And so, you know yeah. And it's like, that's going to come with those, you know, challenges and frustration, you know, or. Oh, you know, we got to create this, but I think the, like I said, [00:34:00] the beauty of it was, you know, Carrie pulling us all together and making sure that there was this, you know, consistency across in terms of like pedagogy in the classroom too, like the curriculum and the practices. And it was interesting because that was the first year of inspection.
[00:34:16] And I remember the hour in Dubai, which these schools get inspected. Almost every year. I know it changes at times depending on how they are rated. So they rate schools and make it public. If people don't know about that in the United Arab Emirates. And for that to be for us to pull that together in no time, I remember them like complimenting, you know, the department, which I was like, that's scary.
[00:34:37] You know, she, you know, she made sure that as much as possible, she pulled team together resources together and Did it in a way that was just was just honored. Everybody was respectful, you know. Cause again, it was that whole trying to figure out like, okay, you're from Iran, you're from Australia, you from Canada. Because again, again, you can't get frustrated you, if you're trying to like to make a point or make something you know, getting folks to understand that, okay, this is how we do it there. But like I said, I think for us, it was like, okay, we are situated right now. And Dubai United Arab Emirates, the kids are from all over.
[00:35:08] We're building a math program based on where we're at. You know and taken from the best of what we know. And how can we infuse that in accordingly?
[00:35:16] Nyra: [00:35:16] Have you ever had to check your privilege at the door?
[00:35:20]Kevin: [00:35:20] I think a lot of that came with working with quote unquote American schools or American curriculum schools situated international context. Cause again, I think working with different schools. It was this my understanding of, you know, what I should see, hear, feel, understand, and what I understood about American curriculum and what should be going on, you know, in a school versus arriving and seeing something that's totally not aligned stuff that's missing or it's on paper and not in practice. So there definitely were times where, you know, I had [00:36:00] to. Take my, you know, nationality, you know, and put it to the side to fully understand the context in which I may or may not have worked in, you know, cause that's really what it was. It might be like, come visit us and come check us out. And again, I might, I don't know.
[00:36:16] I would have in my brain, these, all the things based on my understanding that I should see, hear, feel understand. And if you're not saying it, you know, or I don't see it, you know, where's it at. And I think on that side of American privilege, you know, having to, I learned, especially in the middle East, You know, definitely to, you know, like just say, listen twice as much as you talk, you know?
[00:36:42] So listen to folks, see what they're doing, see what they have. And again, it's looking historically and looking at, you know, different records and documents, but I know there were plenty of times where I, you know, just sort of said, had to say, and again, it might've led to either a yes or no, you know, either from me or from them, me and a school leader, owner, director, you know, head of, or whoever to do that work.
[00:37:04]You know, because like I said, in my head, in my mind, in my experience, it was like, well, this is what y'all supposed to be doing, you know? So, so that's what I expect to see. And if I don't then, you know, I'm most have some notions and some things I'm thinking about, you know, especially if you're a leader or owner you've invested in that, there is definitely a lot.
[00:37:32] Nyra: [00:37:32] Do you feel being a person of color, being a black man out doing what you're doing has been a hindrance or has it been an asset?
[00:37:39] Kevin: [00:37:39] Hmm, good question. I remember a school and there have been a couple of times we may have emailed or talk on the phone. And again, he's the most, the middle East schools in the middle East based in the middle East. And I show up and they were like, Oh, you're Brown. Like us. You know, I was going to be old white man. You know, I was like, [00:38:00] Hey, my brother open arms. And so again, those, those interactions, those, those statements always telling you know, who they're used to or it's being well, at least you're not stealing and taking money. Like some of these other consultants. You know what I mean? Like there's been some different things that I've heard or, you know, people that sort of told me no, these interactions weren't always positive.
[00:38:28] And I think, you know, definitely for me, it was always, you know, if we say we going to do it, do it. You know where we're going to be wholeheartedly in it or we're not. So it's either a yes or it's a no, you know, if it was a, no, it was like, okay, not right now. Or we know somebody else or here go some resources, you know, we can't help you right now. I think, but overall, I think it was always a shock, you know, showing up at some of these places. My Thailand class is always fun. You know, it, people say they'd be like, wait, you know, you're the first black professor I had her first. I have had or interacted with, you know, so it has happened a lot, you know, are you the first thing, the math guy, or such as this person that, you know, I've had this experience with it.
[00:39:12] So I think it's definitely been more of those throughout, you know, working and traveling and living all over. You know, definitely, but I was always also aware. And I think this was more in the United Arab Emirates, that until I opened my mouth, people were trying to figure out where I was from.
[00:39:30] You know, cause there's always that whole question. They're like, Oh, where are you? I remember like my best friend, from Australia. And I'm like, Oh, Yankee, you know, again, it was what they were used to or where they came from, what they called us. So it was always say overseas, I was American before I was black, you know, and I'd have to inform and educate folks on, you know, if I'm in the States, I'm black. You know, this is what I call, right. But yeah, there was a lot of that, but I definitely, you know, it was like, where are [00:40:00] you from? What country are you from? It would be that before it's you know, focused on like race, especially in the international context a lot.
[00:40:07] Nyra: [00:40:07] How have you used your passport for change?
[00:40:10] Kevin: [00:40:10] Ooh. Wow. I love it. That is definitely I think a lot of the work that is being done now. So two things that stand out. I think we started the KDSL global fellowship program a few years ago, and that was to give voice to teachers entrepreneurs. Anywhere around the world who have ideas, but just want to get them out there, want to make them more public. So this year we had to as our own based in Nigeria, the LA based in Ghana the year before that we had Sonia based in the United Arab Emirates, [name not clear] based in United Arab Emirates. And the first year [name not clear] based out of Jordan. And so their big thing is. No, having a project, some they're currently engaged in or wanna engage in and again, getting out there in the public education, especially international space.
[00:41:01] And so I think that's a part of it going, like I said, with what I sort of shifted to is going behind the scenes and linking and connecting people with orgs and groups and using that, you know, sort of who I know. And where I'm from in places in times based on what people's needs are. So I think that's one aspect of, of using it.
[00:41:24] And the second, I think a lot of the work rooted in our, ALOC [word not clear]. association because so often in the spaces that I was in. It was this denial of anything going on or that, Oh, racism discrimination knows that's an American problem, you know? And okay. So it's not ubiquitous because I've sit in places and had to challenge people who say, Oh no, we need a white head of school, you know? Or, Oh no, we need more white teachers. And again, they have literally said this or we only want teachers or a leader from here. We don't want, you know, [00:42:00] anyone who looks at her
[00:42:02] Nyra: [00:42:02] That is so like it's because the grand narrative is if there's a white teacher, a white, then the quality of the value of what's happening in that classroom is, is necessary. You know, it's on a certain level, which we both know that does not mean. That is what I'm saying. And so I've seen crappy white teachers and I've seen crap. I've seen just crappy teachers from all backgrounds, you know, so, but there's still this very colorism approach to what is considered valuable and what is considered wealthy, what is considered, you know you know, and it's unfortunate that it's just, it's ingrained in a lot of culture that goes way back, you know, I mean, with, especially in China, you know, I mean with the bleaching of skin and stuff like that, you see, you see those types of things.
[00:42:59] So yeah. I mean, I didn't mean to cut you off. I mean, you can certainly continue on what you were going to say. You are advocating and really edge of re-educating.
[00:43:10] Kevin: [00:43:10] Yup. Exactly. So again, connecting with those again, who around the world, because a lot of what we do is again, amplifying, you know, people who look like us, who are working around the world, who people might not know, they might not know what we're doing, you know? And so, and a lot of this came because of what I saw and what I heard, and then personal experience and experiences that others had. You know that, Oh, I was told because I was a female. Oh. Because of my skin color. Oh my passport, my accent. There was so many stories that I heard, you know, for so long. And like I said, four years ago, when that story hit, because I'm your reference, you know, are we getting personal, personal, you know?
[00:43:48] And then I was already in a program. Right, right. Because of some things, some issues I had, you know, and then they were ignored. And so I'm like, that's. That that's not going to help the [00:44:00] situation, you know? And so that, you know, came, you know, to setting up the Facebook group, which turned to an association last January. And again, like I said, the focus is on amplifying work we're doing and focused on advocating for people and learning and research. Cause there was a lot of, you know, where we, you know, calling people out and saying, okay, why are you talking about international? But all your presenters look a certain way.
[00:44:22] Like how is that international? You know, I am confused. You know and getting comfortable doing that consistently and advocate for people on their behalf. But at the end, I think a lot of it is too, you know, it's a lot is, you know, table chair talk. My big thing has been, and that was from the onset, but I don't see it created, you know, I don't haven't felt it don't experience it, create it, make those spaces, you know?
[00:44:47] Cause that's my thing too. I'm like, I don't feel like I need to be fighting to sit at tables and makings. I'm not about to sit here and fight with folks. You know, especially if your system policies and practices were designed and rooted in white supremacy. And it wasn't really meant for me to be there anyway. And then I do show up, you know, and I'm getting stared at and question, then I'm like, let me make my own space, you know? And I think that's been, yeah, that's been the onset. Is that being in the business of creating spaces? You know, for folks where you don't have to feel like you have to be, yeah, you're going to experience microaggressions and all this other stuff where people are going to be crying.
[00:45:27] I'm not no safe. I want a space where I can show up and be, I got to tell them, I just show up and be my full black gay self.