In this episode, Ohio native Expat Harry Kennedy shares how a random bluff made him an expat pioneer at work; reminds us of the differences between a tourist and a resident; and how he uses language to disrupt the monolingual stereotypes of Americans.
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In this episode, Ohio native Expat Harry Kennedy shares how a random bluff made him an expat pioneer at work; reminds us of the differences between a tourist and a resident; and how he uses language to disrupt the monolingual stereotypes of Americans.
BAXTER BLUE
This is eyewear built for our digital age and Baxter Blue is giving our listeners 10% off your next purchase of blue light, sleep, or kids glasses
https://baxterblueglasses.pxf.io/c/2544961/1031264/11471
[00:02:42] Nyra: So you can start off telling me who you are, where you're from. Where did you sprout from
[00:02:49] Harry: okay. Sure. I could do that. So yes. My name is Harry. I was actually born in New Orleans, Louisiana. I grew up in Dayton, Ohio, and I attended the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati, Ohio. And I lived in the city for about five years before basically getting the opportunity to come to Belgium where I'm currently residing now. The way that that happened was it was through my job. So I'm, I work full-time as an IT network administrator out of a company based out of Cincinnati, Ohio. It actually the idea for me to come here and live and work actually was, was super random. I just remember it. I was getting ready to go to the gym.
[00:03:28] I used to go to the gym every day, just right after work. And I remember my boss and my colleague, they were just sitting there, you know, in my bosses office, just kind of talking, you know, how you're on, you know, ready to go to ready to go to the gym. And basically, he's like, Oh man, you know, we gotta hire somebody. And for Europe, we're a global company, so he's like, we gotta hire somebody for Europe. So, you know, I, I need to figure out how to get that started. And I was like, listen, you don't need to hire nobody. Just send me over there. Well, I was halfway, I was halfway joking. I was half serious and [00:04:00] he was like, Really?
[00:04:01] He's like, do you really want to go? I was like, Hmm, what do you mean? I mean, can I, you serious? So he told me to go home and think about it and, and just kinda, you know, kinda just think it over. Don't just make an impulsive decision. So I took the weekend. I called my friends. I called my family. I called everybody and, you know, I promise you. Nobody said no. Everybody was like, what are you doing?
[00:04:28] Nyra: Pause right there. Because Cincinnati, Ohio, this is a Midwest. Right. Let's talk about from a travel perspective, let's talk about from a mobility perspective. Was there anybody around you that was living or emulated or, you know, had gave you that idea that, Oh, there are opportunities outside of the United States.
[00:04:52]Harry: Kinda so, you know I have family members that are in the military and they have been stationed abroad. So, you know, I kind of had that idea that it was possible, but, you know in my mind, at that moment, you know, the way I kind of envisioned it was like, okay, unless you were like military or You know, you found a, you know, you found a husband, a wife, or, or, you know, just some big time job overseas that wanted in American specifically that was possible for you.
[00:05:19] But I didn't think an average person like me, you know typical American black guy just you know,
[00:05:24]Nyra: who is not in the military. Right. So you're not in the military and you're not married to a spouse that is in the military. Cause that's, that's your only point of contact of how to get out of. Hmm, you know, United States, and this is an important point to bring up because there are a lot of young people who think, Oh, well, if I want to travel, if I want to get out of the, you know of the United States or even out of my community, the military is the only way for me to do that. And that's not. So, so cultivating yourself and how you cultivate that has been the mindset. From the onset, did you don't even know, [00:06:00] you know, but it's, it's good that you pointed out that people in your family. Cause I have military people in my family too. So I understand that. But you didn't really know how you were going to get there because military was not the track for you.
[00:06:14] That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. So, so how did you so how did you shift, how did that shift you into where you're a traveler before then?
[00:06:23]Harry: Okay. So prior to me working for you know, my current company that I work with now I was not necessarily a huge traveler abroad outside of the United States. You know, I, my goal was to see, you know was to see, you know, LA, Seattle, you know, the big, the big cities in the U S but you know, that thought never crossed my mind. Oh, you know, you can go abroad. You know, at being in being just a, just an average person, I thought that I thought that only rich people went abroad.
[00:06:50] That's, that was my viewpoint of it, you know, until then, then I started at my job and you know, people are taking business trips back and forth, you know, between the offices in Europe, we have offices in Asia as well. And so you see people, you know, traveling back and forth. And I was like, wow, that's really cool. I really want to do that. You know, if that's possible, I didn't, I didn't realize it was actually affordable, you know, and
[00:07:09] Nyra: right, exactly. That's a striking point that some people, you know, that you said that I didn't even know, I could do that. You know, but really getting out of the Midwest. And I think that's the Midwest thinking, you know, let me just go to the city. Let me just go to these major meccas that we we've been told growing up. And that's, as far as the, is some people's imagination takes them, you know, but then your imagination is furthered by watching people actually go abroad for work.
[00:07:42] Harry: That's true. That's true. So I don't know. I was, it was just like, it was a big thing for me because it was like wow. You know, maybe, you know, maybe if I, well, let me, let me, let me back it up a little bit. So yeah, the company I work for now, I started as , I started as an intern and so, you know, I'm [00:08:00] still in college, I'm still, you know, , the my colleagues and everybody who's, I'm working with and everything. Explaining this stuff to me. And I'm just asking them a million questions because you know, I'm dealing with my European colleagues and, and you know, I don't know anything. I'm just asking everybody questions. Okay. Do these people speak English? How do people communicate? You know is it easy to go from country to country?
[00:08:20] So like all these ideas just popped into my head and I was like, you know I need to, I need to get hired by this company. Hopefully they hired me so I can have that same opportunity to go abroad. And I don't know, it was, it was like, that was a. I don't know that just sparked like a whole new opportunity to a whole new level of interests that honestly, I probably, I don't know if it wasn't for, if it wasn't for that experience. I don't, I don't know where I w where else I would have gotten it.
[00:08:46] Nyra: So I really liked that you, that you were very honest about that traveling abroad was not on, was just not in the hemisphere at one point in your life. Not until you have those kinds of interactions or, or, or interventions, you know? One might think so. I think I think that it's important for a lot of people, our listeners right now to know, Hey, you know, it's okay that you may not know somebody personally that has traveled abroad or that you have not or that one track is the only track to get to abroad. And then you found out that it's actually not that expensive and that's really a myth. Actually people think it's so expensive and it's only for the super-rich and for somebody who is just, you know, raining and dough (word not clear) or just living a certain, you know, because that's also another narrative that's put out there too. And they don't realize that people with certain skillsets yours, is IT.
[00:09:47] That actually that skillset can get you abroad.
[00:09:51] Harry: So basically, like I said, that weekend, I talked to everybody, I talked to the family, talk to friends and everything, and literally no one had any [00:10:00] objections to it. And so you know, I think it was that following week I was like, I told my boss, I was like, yeah, I want to do it. You know, how can we get started? And so You know, he, he made, he made some phone calls, he got HR involved and we all sat down and had a meeting because, well, first of all, I was the first person from the company to actually even do anything, you know like this. And so, you know, everybody's just really, really excited and, and, you know, we were talking about timing, you know, location and, and yeah.
[00:10:25] The whole, the whole process was, was great. And I think yeah, I don't know if there was anybody who didn't support it. Both you know, at work and at home. So that was great.
[00:10:35] Nyra: Right. So you said the whole process was seamless. That's what it sounds like, right.
[00:10:41]Harry: I wouldn't necessarily say it was seamless. I mean, it was a lot of it was a lot of discovery that, that that had to go on, you know, to be there. But, you know, just the fact that you know, you have people who were kind of helping you, who want this to happen. It makes it a lot easier, you know, even though. You know, you have these things, or you have you have things of uncertainty and you know, as far as the process what's needed and things like that.
[00:11:04] But no, we'll, we'll definitely get into that probably in in a later part, but it was it wasn't the seamless process in the beginning.
[00:11:11] Nyra: Well, let's talk the discovery. I think I liked that word. Like, you know, there was a lot of discoveries, but availed themselves. Yeah. So tell me, tell me some of those discoveries.
[00:11:21] Harry: Okay. So with that so we have, we have about four locations and throughout Europe, so and yeah, in our European offices and one's in Denmark, one's in Poland. One's in Germany and one's in Belgium. And you know, the first part of the question is like, okay, which location? You know, are we going to send. Harry and for how long, and, you know, once, once that gets, once that gets you know, found out and, and, you know, Belgium was chosen, it's like, okay, well, what is the process for first of all, getting, getting the visa, you know to actually live and getting the visa to actually work what's needed on, on on the company side, what do I need for myself? You know? And [00:12:00] what does the, what does the company in, in Belgium need to provide in order to host me and bring me over, you know, for the duration and you know, a lot of paperwork, it was a lot of paperwork. I think I needed, so I was so I have a bachelor's degree in IT.
[00:12:13] So I had to provide proof that that I actually went to college. I have to provide my passport. I need a background check. I need to get fingerprints at one point,
[00:12:22] Nyra: you have a passport at that time?
[00:12:24]Harry: I did, I did
[00:12:25] When I talk to people
[00:12:29] Nyra: and they just like, I didn't have a passport, but you know, until I got that first opportunity to go abroad, I was like, Oh, because I know that's what happened with me. Like. I had to go and get one of those expedited passports. And you have to show evidence that you actually bought a ticket to go, you know, this is way back when but yeah, this is awesome because you know, people will be surprised. Just that just to get the books, some people just have the book, you know, so yeah. So all this paperwork you learned about, you know the difference between attestation, passport, notary and all those kinds of things. And I'm sure, you know, they just kind of handheld you through this whole entire process. You know, they basically requested you furnished it and that's how it went.
[00:13:16] Harry: More or less? Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, they would, they would, I remember the the HR rep was kind of handling everything at the time. She was requesting just all these different documents from me. And then on the, on the Belgium side, they were, you know, they were requesting documents, but like I said, it was all going through. It was all going through this one HR rep who was obviously, you know, we're all figuring, we're all figuring stuff out together. So she's taking notes and you know, if there's a road bump, because what we found, what happened is, is so. She was dealing with someone else on this side. And I guess whoever on this side, we didn't, you know, didn't know all the, all the all the requirements and everything.
[00:13:52] So, you know, there's a bit of confusion back and forth and no, it was, it was very interesting, but I will say that one error landed me a [00:14:00] 10-day trip to New York city. While I was waiting on all my paperwork. So
[00:14:07] Nyra: that was very nice. Yes. You know, that's, that's a good point because a lot of people, well, first let me ask you the, what the HR person that was helping you as she'd been abroad. Has she worked in another office? Was she, or was, she was just going by processes and procedures and how to help relocate employees?
[00:14:29]Harry: So she's been abroad before, so she's been to our offices and I'm sure she's probably done some personal travel abroad herself. I would say as far as the process, well, number one there, well, for our company, there was no there was no formalized process as far as okay. I was still the, I was the first one to ever to ever do something like this. So so everybody was figuring things out and, and you know, it was like I said, she thought she was holding my hand, someone else was holding her hand. We were all, you know, it was a, it was a big, it was a big hand holding session as far as you know, getting, getting through the, the process. But you know, obviously in the end it worked out, like I said, positive for me.
[00:15:07] I spent. Like I said, I spent 10 days and in New York and I had to, I had to visit a special doctor. That's I guess, approved by Belgium. There's like there's like several tests that you have to do like medical tests to make sure that you don't have certain diseases that you're not bringing over. And You gotta see a doctor. You gotta, you gotta take the paperwork to the Belgium consulate, which is in New York. There are others around the world, but in the country, but that was the closest. So, and then, yeah, it was really just a lot of waiting after that.
[00:15:35] Nyra: So you're now in Belgium, we're going to take you in the sky. You're all excited. Woo. You know, and you land in Belgium and tell me, what was your first, what's your experience with yourself once you landed in Belgium, your first time?
[00:15:51]Harry: Oh man. I was So when I, so when I first got there, right. I realized how American I really was.
[00:15:58] Nyra: Yeah. [00:16:00] Oh yes. I already know where this is going, but you know what? I want to hear it.
[00:16:06] Harry: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Becca, Becca, Cincinnati, I was, you know, I had I had gained a lot of friends. I went to college there. So like you know, I was that guy. I knew a lot of people. I just go out to the bars, everyone used to know me, and I get over here and. All I have is my colleagues. I don't have anybody. It's just me, you know, I'm going up to people. Hi, how are you doing? And, you know, it's, it's not really, it's not really standard culture for somebody to just walk up and be smiling at you and waving and saying hi. And so you know, that was kind of a culture shock to me cause it was like these people were kind of cold, you know?
[00:16:37] And, and yeah, it was, it was, it was very difficult for that. And not only that, but, what really I guess was the most difficult part as well was You know, the language barrier. So like I said, you know, with me being very American, you know, I'm using a lot of slang and a lot of you know, a lot of phrases that, you know.
[00:16:57] Yeah. Yeah. colloquial wanted to say it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, those those colloquialisms you know, that they're not accustomed to, and so. And then, so they're telling me stuff and I'm having to read signs and, and things, and, you know, everybody just being short with me and you know, that experience was like, man, what's wrong with these people, you know why they like this? And so you know, I've also had also had issues with their language as well. So, you know, I think it was like within the first two or three weeks of me of me being here, I parked on the wrong It was a, it was an illegal spot where I shouldn't have been in and I woke up one morning to be not having a car.
[00:17:39] Nyra: And then trying to maneuver that to get your car back. Huh?
[00:17:43] Harry: That was a, that was a, that was an experience in and of itself. So I woke up, I'm like, okay, I was going to work. I was like, where's my car. So I'm looking I, I had no idea. And so I asked the guy, I was like, sir Yeah, my car was sitting here. Do you, do you know where it might be? He was like, no, but they probably took it. So you might want [00:18:00] to call the police and see what happened. I called the police. And I'm like okay. So I had my car parked here. It's not here anymore. Do you guys know what happened to it? And so I gave him all the information. They're like, oh yeah, yeah, we took it. So, so you got to come here. So I had to walk, I had to literally walk like 20 minutes to the police station. I get in there. I show him my ID and you know; they bring me back. I sit down and the guy's like, he, he starts showing me pictures. He's like, listen, you're not supposed to park here.
[00:18:25] And like, he, he he's showing me all these pictures is proof that I parked there and is like, Great. I just want the car back, like
[00:18:31] Nyra: Tell me what i have to pay? Blah, blah, blah, blah. What's the paperwork?
[00:18:36] Harry: Yeah, exactly. 150 euros. Number one. Yes. Well, I take that back. So it was 50 euros for the for the actual ticket. So that was like the ticket thing. And then I had to basically pay them. They gave me a paper and they took me to the car towing place. Yeah. And then I had to pay the towing company 250 euros. And so, so yeah, that was an expensive day. And you know, once I finally get my car back, I'm driving into the office and everybody's just laughing at me like, wow,
[00:19:06] Nyra: it definitely is an awakening to that. You are in foreign land and that you have to get to know the cultural norms, the, you know, the rules and regulations, the lay of the land. Lay of the land and not knowing the lay of the land. Did they prep you for that before you went over there? Or was it all about just getting the paperwork together?
[00:19:33] Harry: No. So, I mean, I've actually been to Belgium. I want to say about one or two times before before I actually, you know, made the move. But the thing is, is and what I always like to tell people was that, you know, visiting a country is different than living in a country. It is not the same. And you know, I thought that, you know, when I, my trips that I had over, I thought it was going to be like, Oh yeah, this is fine. This is party. I'm going to be in a new country every weekend and stuff like that. It was like, no, [00:20:00] that's not how, that's not how this really works. That's not real life, not real life.
[00:20:07] Nyra: Life like you're living, you're working and that, you know, your day to day, just like that, you know, you have access to other countries and all that, but same planning, you know, you just won't be, it's not vacation. It's not vacation every day. You said language barrier. What is the language there?
[00:20:26] Harry: Okay, so this is an interesting question. So Belgium actually has three official languages, French, Dutch, and German. Now this is a strange, well I'll, I'll, I'll use the term interesting. This is an interesting country because. Basically, it's a tiny country. Right. But they're full of they're full of bureaucrats in even the language, even the regions of the country is separated by language. So you have the Southern part of Belgium, which is French speaking. You have you have Brussels, so there's a region of Brussell's that's supposed to be a mixture of French and Dutch, but if you go there you'll, you'll hear French 90% of the time. And then there's a, there's a Flemish region, which is a, which is the Belgium.
[00:21:09] That's, that's the name of the Belgian dialect for Dutch. And that's, that's where, that's where the that's where I'm living now. And, and they're speaking Dutch, Flemish I mean, people use it interchangeably here. And then there's a tiny community at the border of Germany that that speaks German. So, the Belgium, the Belgians took a tiny bit of land from Germany after world war two. And so that has remained a German speaking Community, they don't call it a region, they call it a community. So yeah, it's three languages.
[00:21:37] Nyra: Isn't that interesting that when you learn about the language of a country, that you also get connection to the history of the country. And so I mean, how, we take for granted. Well, and I should say maybe I even took for granted my language, just English, you know what I'm saying? But not really [00:22:00] understanding the connectivity of what English you know, in its historical perspective really means in America, you know and probably has been taught on some form level, but not really focused on, but language is, it's a very political tool in a lot of different countries, you know? It is a determining factor of how one person's going to treat you because of the language you speak, you know? And so as a foreigner, how are you treated as a foreigner there?
[00:22:29]Harry: It's mixed. It's definitely not a bad thing, but if we want to talk about if we want to get into kind of like the, the racial aspect, because I think that that's also I think that's also important, you know, with me being black and here. What I noticed is that like, so first of all, racial tensions and, and, you know, just race, the way that they deal with it is completely different than the way to deal with it in America. It's totally different. Well, don't be wrong. There's, there's racism everywhere, but it's, it's kinda, it's different here.
[00:22:58] And you know, I noticed that at the top of the list, it's more so of a, it's more sort of like Arabs and you know, the Islam community. That's kind of like that, that number one kind of a tier. And then the secondary is Africans. And then you know, then you have me. Who kind of falls in that African category. But as soon as they, I open my mouth and I speak, I speak English, they hear that American accent. I have I have what's called American privilege. So I'm kind of placed in that category with, you know, the rest of the local people there, you know? And so you know, I think that, you know, prior to me speaking or opening my mouth.
[00:23:32] They think I'm just some average, you know, individual living in the country or visiting, they don't know who I am, you know, until till I tell them, you know, I'm just I'm just the black, I'm just the African, maybe or a citizen or whoever, you know, whoever I'm encountering until I speak. But yeah. I would say that people are generally nice. I don't, I don't think I've ever had like a, I don't think I would have ever had an issue. Like somebody looking at me crazy because I'm a foreigner or anything. So I will say, I will say that on a positive note that, yeah, [00:24:00] I don't, I don't have those issues. In Belgium.
[00:24:03] Nyra: And so you feel very comfortable as not only a male, but a black male, even in a black American male, you know, that there's certain things that you don't have to think about in terms of just your existence and how you interact with others. And do you feel like there's a narrative that's associated with you or they're, or the narrative is different from basically the narrative that's given as a black American in your own country?
[00:24:32] Harry: No, I think, I think the narrative is, is pretty consistent, but I will say that, you know, just people. They're very, very sympathetic because they know, you know, they can kind of see, you know, kind of the issues that are going on in America and don't get me wrong. It's not, it's, it's a lot less and it's a lot more narrow and, and a watered down than obviously what a typical American would see, but you can, you can kinda you know, get that sense of sympathy or, you know, they, they kind of understand, you know, the things that are going on is, Oh, I'm sorry to hear about that. Or, or, yeah, this is crazy. And, you know you know, Yeah. You know, we, we try not to be like that and things like that. So you do, you, do, you do feel that they actually do care and they have, they have a lot of compassion as far as, you know, what's going on.
[00:25:16] Nyra: Do you have conversations around that? Like, is it, you know, what are those conversations like? You know I'm sure, you know, they're getting the gist of black lives matter and yes, there's, you know, they're showing some compassion, but what are you having? Have you had any conversations like in-depth conversations of what, how they perceive it, you know? What's their take on it, you know, how has it moved? Do you feel like it's moved the culture a little bit consciously in Belgium, you know, because of what's happening in the States, I'm just curious?
[00:25:51] Harry: I would say, I would say a little bit. I mean, you know, I always, I always try to have those conversations, but I don't know it's difficult because a lot of the times when these things come up [00:26:00] there, it's, it's never the right time. You know, it's never the time where I have, you know, an hour, 30 minutes to kind of just explain everything or just explain, you know, kind of the just, you know, the steps of things that go on. And so. But I do, I do find myself just explaining, you know, police and you know, how, how things are.
[00:26:18] And like for example, I do have a, I do have an African friend. Well, I have, I have quite a few African friends here, but I have one in particular and he's like, Oh man, I'm scared to go to America because he's like, the police might shoot me and you know, and it's like, wow. And so I have to sit down and have to talk to him and be like, listen, you know you know, they're not just gonna roll up on you and shoot you. However, you know they do tend to be more aggressive with black people, you know, once they're approached and you know, I don't, I just try to, I just try to explain the whole. You know, the whole kind of root cause of all of the issues and, and things like that, because I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, they, they see, they see the result of an underlying issue that, that that's not being talked about.
[00:26:57] And I, I do like to I do like to explain these things and like, let them know, like, Hey, This is why, you know, we're, we're in a situation that we're in now and, and this is the result of that. And we really need to, you know we, as Americans need to really see, you know, this is the problem. And, you know, regardless of you know, regardless of who's, who's doing this, who's doing that. I mean, it's not being solved regardless. And you know, the, the protesting and things like that. It's great. You're letting your voice be heard, but we also have to, I try to remind people that actions need to need to follow our you know, need to follow our voices. You know, I think that, I think that it's a tragedy and it's a shame that, Oh yeah, we go out, we March, you know, we let our voices be heard, but then the next thing you know, we vote the same guy that says that he's going to solve the problem.
[00:27:43] He gets an office. And what does he do? Oh, yeah. Well, that's not an issue anymore. And you know, you see that across the country and, but nobody talks about it. They're just angry that they're just angry and continuously angry at the result that they're getting. But it's like, this is the reason why it's here. You need to get you someone who's [00:28:00] truly representing black people. You know, I don't, I don't want, I don't want somebody out here virtue signaling saying, this is, you know, I wish with you or, you know You know, I support you and I'm standing outside walking with you, but why aren't you proposing new bills?
[00:28:13] Why aren't you proposing this? Why don't you, you know, put some new ideas on the table? You know, every talk is cheap. So I explained that I try to explain that to him and, you know
[00:28:25] Nyra: yeah. You know, and, and I'm sure it, that's just very interesting and I'm sure just that dialogue alone, you know dialoguing alone, I think Proves Helps in the conscious, shifting in the world. And that's why just your very presence is a powerful, you know, introduction to what's happening out in the world. You know getting a closer contact to what is the, really the nuts and bolts of what the issues are. And, you know, some of the, the, the underlining connecting dots that they could make from just having a conversation with you that can, can impact their lives and their choices in the future.
[00:29:06] You know? So that's why every conversation is intentional. Every interaction is important and profound, even if both parties don't even know it. Yes. Yeah.
[00:29:18] Harry: I can definitely say that. You know, I would say like the changes within myself well, Like I said, I used to be, I used to be this super animated, happy, you know, like you know, what's up, you know? And I can honestly say just being here that I'm a bit more I'm a bit more reserved and I've scaled back a little bit, a bit more calm. Oh, give me my, give me in my natural habitat. I'm, you know, I'm gonna flip right back to it. I noticed that you know, I could kind of, I can kind of blend in a lot more than I used to.
[00:29:47] And I think, I think another reason behind that is, well, first of all, I. I want it. I want to understand these people. I want to, you know, interact with people that are around me. So you know, [00:30:00] I've learned Dutch, you know, I'm, I'm conversationally fluent in Dutch. And so that ending of a silver, I think that's kind of. You know, it kind of changed my way of thinking about things and you know, when I hear people say stuff and I'm sitting in conversations with people in Dutch now, I, I I'm, I find myself just kind of understanding, you know the Belgians and the way they are, you know, they're so they're very cold.
[00:30:21] Like I said, if you don't know them, however, you enter, you enter a social group or you enter their social group. They like to keep their social groups small. And, and within them, and if it's like, you know, they don't really know this person, they're not going to show, they're not going to show themselves fully to this, you know, to these random people. But if you're in that circle, you're their best friend, you know, they'll do anything for you. You know what I mean? And, and you know, I noticed that and you know, what I noticed in myself, it's like, okay, I think I would consider myself to be kind of like a passionate guy and, and you know, I try to help people the best way that I can.
[00:30:54] And what I see is that you know, just, just helping somebody with just this or that, I don't know the, a lot of the locals here, they, they just seem very grateful for that. And it's like, you know, I kinda get that. And so I don't know, for me, it's motivating to want to help people get what they want. You know what I mean, or if, if I can help them in some ways. So I've really, really I've really, really noticed that I guess within myself and you know, I typically try to , I typically try to shout a balance like I said, that small social group because I have, I have you know, social groups of friends, different, different social groups.
[00:31:30] I try to manage those, but also you know, I can also go to another country or go to another part of the country and still you're not gonna make new friends. Like, I, I mean, I, I found, I find myself to just be just just that much more versatile than I was prior. And yeah. I have found that, trying to understand someone in their language is you know, has been, has been a huge part of that success.
[00:31:52] Nyra: Yeah. I agree with that. That was the, I had a similar, similar thing going to China [00:32:00] and we told them how the language it's really not easy to learn. How long did it take you to, to learn Dutch?
[00:32:08] Harry: So that's interesting. I would honestly, well, I've been here, I've been in Belgium two and a half years. I would still say that I'm still learning, but I would say to get to like a comfortable, conversational level, it took me just a little over a year, year and a half or something like that.
[00:32:21] Nyra: And concentrated like weekly study.
[00:32:26] Harry: No, that's I'll, I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you the secret. So to be honest, full disclosure, I started learning vocabulary, just vocabulary about a month before I came over. But I wanna say it was about two or three months in that vocabulary just kind of set. And then I took I started to go to a language school. Okay. So I was doing that two or three times a week about three hours that evening. So was what, six hours a week? Maybe six, nine hours a week.
[00:32:52] Nyra: Yeah. That's pretty intense. Yeah. So that was like the intense Dutch learning right there.
[00:32:59] Harry: And so I did, I completed three courses with that and then I got myself a language tutor to where I was I was talking to somebody for about for about an hour out of the week. And yeah, just, just doing that kind of helped me kind of propel me to to a higher level. Now, I'll tell you about Dutch people. They really well, Dutch, Dutch, and Belgians they really pride themselves on, you know, trying to try and be accommodating and inclusive. And so when they hear you trying to speak Dutch and you're struggling they would just immediately switch to English.
[00:33:30] Yeah. Oh yeah. We can just speak English. I'm like, no, I, this is, this is the moment where I want to be thrown into the sharks because I need to learn how to swim, you know, and I need to learn how to, you know, fight it and get out of it. And, you know, they're just too nice and they want to just, they want to just speak English to me. I'm like, Oh, I mean, It's not, it's not, it's not the worst thing in the world. Cause I mean, I guess I'm helping them cause a lot of people, for example, my colleague, right. So prior to COVID. [00:34:00] He used to sit right across from me, you know, and during work. And like I said, we, we used to speak English up into a point up until I got good enough to actually communicate with him in Dutch.
[00:34:10]And what he told me was, yeah, he's learned, you know, he's learned so many new words and so many new you know way of kind of phrasing things just from sitting across from me and me talking to him. And I mean, I may be wrong. His English, his English is already, you know, it's already good. You know, it's like, I mean, he tell you he he's got strong Belgian accent, but he, he, he, you know, he he's he has a pretty high level of of how do I say fluency? So but you know, he's like, he's like, yeah, I, I, I met you and I learned this word. I learned this word. I've never heard this one before. And I'm just, I'll just explain this stuff to him. And yeah, it was, I don't know. It was, it was great. So I, again, I helped him out a lot, so that was good.
[00:34:50] Nyra: I, you know in your, in, well, in your place of work how many Americans are there?
[00:34:56] Harry: Like what's the makeup? So I'm the only American abroad period. Yes, so obviously our US employees are in the U S and then it's me. So typically, we have a, so in Belgium, So we have, we have a few French colleagues that come that live kind of on the other side of the border. So they're French. So they come over and work in the office as a year. And for the rest. Yeah. They're all, they're all Belgians or you know, Belgian nationals or what do you call them? Residents national, something like that, about the nationals.
[00:35:32] Nyra: So, what is that like coming from one work culture or office culture in America to office culture in Belgium is there is near a shift in difference in the way they work, work ethic, work environment. I mean, is there a water cooler conversation? You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Just take me through what's the differences of the compare and contrast.
[00:35:58] Harry: I was saying America. So [00:36:00] the American work culture in the office, you know you got people coming in early people coming in on time. There and, you know, five o'clock comes around you know, there's, there's some people in the office, you know people in the office work in five, five 30, six, six 30 in the U S and in Belgium or just throughout Europe, you know, they work their hours and they're done five o'clock they're out that door. If, if there's, there's not you know, anything special going on with, they need to stay. They're not staying there. They're out. They do their, eight 30 to five or nine 30 to five or eight to four or whatever, you know, whatever their working hours on they're done. I've noticed that that's, that's a huge difference.
[00:36:36] And you know, when they're working, when, you know, when their weekend is going on, like that's, that's their time. And they, they typically like to just work. Get their hours, get their money and then go enjoy the rest of their life. Whereas in America we're more so workaholics. And so you do see that a lot. And but I would say as far as like, you know, water cooler and just the basic conversations. So I would say our European colleagues are just so. I was shocked. They're there, they're just a little bit less PC than the, than the American colleagues. So you know, they, they make I'm not going to expose anybody, but they, you know, they, they, they kinda, they kind of say they kind of make jokes or, or you know, kind of have these Air out like these light frustrations about other countries you know, based on a war that happened what 70, 80 years ago. And y'all say it in this, I thought this was forbidding.
[00:37:27] Nyra: Right, right, right, right, right. I just kind of, I don't know about you, but I just kind stand there. Like, you know, I pretend like I'm a fly on the wall and just kind of observe and go, Oh, okay. Yeah. All right.
[00:37:45] Harry: But is that just the Belgians? They all do it about this one country and I'm like, Yes. I didn't know, y'all do this. I don't, I don't listen, you know you know, I'm Ray, Charles. I don't see nothing, you know,
[00:37:57] Nyra: so, [00:38:00] yes. Yeah. How could you get involved into those conversations? It's really mind boggling how the way, we look at each other and this is how this is almost like a transference almost of cultural skills, right? So, you know, there's certain things that we just don't do out in the open anymore in the States, but at the same time, there's also, we get an air of how one feels about the temperature of a particular area or, you know cultural, not cultural a group of people to another people, right. Regionally state to state, whatever. So the thing is, is that I It really laughing because when I moved to Sharjah which is in UAE one of the embassy in UAE, I had a parallel teacher and she is from Iraq, but the way she used to talk about other countries, you know, there were other kids from other countries, her like that it, it gave her how do you say it?
[00:39:04] Like she, there was this, it was never about the individual. Hmm. It was since they were from this country that it's almost like a tribe consciousness. So you never see in America, we looked at individuals, but we also look at groups too, but some places like if you're from that country, there's an automatic narrative of nationals from that country. And depending on what our country, in the relationship to that country, that it's racist. It's And they'll call it nationalists, or maybe there's other words for it. But similar in terms of, we look at color and we look at, you know, ethnic makeup and they look at nationality and how they operate, you know, do you see a comedy (word not clear)?
[00:39:51] Do you, do you find that? How was that? How does that, how does that disrupt your thinking? How does that, does it disrupt your thinking? Maybe that's, maybe that's [00:40:00] really the question. Does it disrupt your consciousness? In that moment?
[00:40:07] Harry: Not so much because I mean, I always have that in back of my mind, but I always, so the thing is, is cause you know, they, they, they do that, like I said about that country and you know, those people, they're very nice people and you know, they'll admit that, that it's not like they don't hate them. It all, but they just, you know, it's just these, it's just these little things that they say about them and, and you know, I don't know, cause you kind of look at it and, and. I mean, there's always, and what I like to say is, you know, with a stereotype or with, you know, with anything like that just that narrative that that's built up there's always a shot of truth to it.
[00:40:41] I went in and so when somebody, so if somebody says, Oh, these people from these country this way you know, I'll listen, I'll just take it with a grain of salt and I won't allow it to be like, okay, well, every person is like that, or they're, you know, You know that that trait that they say that these people have is so strong that it clouds anything else or that these people are even liked. Cause I, I don't really for example, I'll give you an example. So you know, we had a lot of talk about so we have Polish colleagues, right. And Poland, you know, just the way that Western Europeans in general talk about Eastern Europeans. It's you know, it's like, Oh, those, these people are poor.
[00:41:16] These people are this. And these people are that. And like, you know, I go to Poland and know these they're the nicest people I've ever seen, you know? Okay. You, you, you see you, you see that there aren't as many you know, BMWs and Mercedes Benz is driving around on the roads. But I mean, at the end of the day, these people are happy. They're enjoying life. And you know, That is, what it is at the end of the day. But, you know, I would never go there and be like, Oh yeah, they're dirty. They're poor. They're this, that and the other, because I mean, for me, I didn't see that you know, I did see there were some poor people, but like in general it was, I don't know, they had a lot of historical castles and just a really, really old buildings that, you know, I found fascinating, the art and all that stuff. It was fascinating to me, you know? So yeah, I don't, I wouldn't say a cloud. [00:42:00] I, I just, I guess I'd take it with a grain of salt.
[00:42:02] Nyra: Where do you feel like your most purposeful or your, your strongest intention is in that country when you're interacting with other people, when you're going into different spaces that are foreign still foreign to you, you understand what I'm asking?
[00:42:19] Harry: Yes. So my intention or my strongest intention is well obviously I always try to basically, because I want to know how these people, you know, if it's something new to me, I wouldn't know how to living. I wouldn't know, you know, how they're doing things, why they do things the way that they do them and, and all of those things. So, you know, I typically try to tailor my questions you know, towards getting those answers because, you know, I just want to understand the culture. I want to understand why things are different and You know, obviously just get the, from the social aspect. I just want to bond with them. I want to, you know, I want to, I want to get that how do you say, I want to get that experience with the, you know, just, just dealing with them.
[00:42:57] So if I can go back home or somebody says, well, you know, how are the Spanish I can, I can give the, I can give an accurate account. And so you know, just, just every foreign person that I like to encounter. That's, you know, my biggest goal is just, okay. Yeah. How were, how were you living?
[00:43:12] Nyra: You talked about a little bit about passport privilege. How have you used your passport for change?
[00:43:20] Harry: Hmm, I would say well, first of all, I've, I've kinda really, really delved in and, and tried to invest a lot of time and energy to learning languages. So I told you about the Dutch I'm actually I'm actually working on French as well. So I'm in the basic conversations of basic conversational stage with that. And you know, how that helps me is, well, first of all like you mentioned before, you know, as far as the myths or or anything that, you know, Americans might have on Europeans, The Europeans have, have you know, strong opinions about Americans as well. And that, you know, they think that we only speak English and we don't care about anything else, but hi, how are you?
[00:43:57] Yeah, I don't understand what's going on here, so I'm [00:44:00] just going to be ignorant and not. Yeah. So you get that a lot and I could tell you, one thing is, you know, I'd take my Dutch, I'd take my French and you know, I go out into the world. I interact with people. Whoa, Whoa. You're from America, you know, this I'm like, yeah. I spent a lot of time, you know, I spend a lot of energy to, to kind of do this so that obviously I can debunk the myth, you know bunk debunk that myth, that we're you know, we're only you say monolingual. Yeah. Monolingual, monolingual. So. Yeah, go ahead. I was thinking, I was thinking of something else
[00:44:38] Nyra: that makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense yes. And it's true that you know that we're really, that Americas is one monolithic group actually is interesting enough. You're like, you don't feel that when you're in America, when you go abroad, and you live abroad. Particularly, you know, is one, there's one approach when you're traveling, but when you're living there, then you realize like, because that's also the information they're getting, right. They don't, and maybe even some interactions through this, some Americans over there that just act the fool and they are ignorant and they, you know, and somehow, you know, because there's tribe consciousness in a lot of different countries, They're going to look at you and you're going to represent the entire United States of America because of your foolishness.
[00:45:23] You know, so that's why I say ex-pats, you know, need to be understand that they're being their ambassadors, you know, without the title, but ambassadors of their own country. And it has to be the very, it, especially now as a global society, we have to be much more intentional in how we interact with other people.