Transcript:
26 min read (5138 Words)
1 - 0:00:00
I mean, you know when you come back from that interview with your news maker and you're telling your news director about it or your senior anchor and they say so. Why do I care? It means nothing to me. It's going to be not mean nothing to our audience if I come away from that interview. And I can't sell it, why did I do the interview?
3 - 0:00:22
The global pandemic has seen a shift in established norms of communication both through the channels
2 - 0:00:28
and the messages we share. There is currently a particular focus. On leadership, both corporate and political, as we all navigate previously uncharted waters, we are at a place and time where many of the conventional constructs of mass communication are being challenged and for better or worse, amplified as a communicator, how ready are you to succeed in that environment? Hi again, and welcome to Speaking of media. The podcast where communicators and the media consider the art of mass storytelling. I'm Keith Marnoch, former journalist turned corporate communicator.
2 - 0:00:57
I invite you to join me to learn from. Industry experts from both sides of the media microphone about how to effectively share your stories and messages. In this episode of Speaking of Media, what leaders need to think about when representing their stories and messages to the broader public, and also how will leadership guide organizations as we attempt to reach a state of pandemic and start living with COVID in the years to come. We have a great chat coming up with someone who truly has been on both sides of the media microphone. Kim Gettys is our guest.
2 - 0:01:30
She was news director at one of Canada's most listened to radio news operations and she's now combining her past experience with a new venture coaching leaders to communicate through the media so a perfect fit for our podcast. Please note this particular show was recorded in mid February 2022, when trucker protests were dominating the news headlines in Canada, but the discussions theme still hold up. Including what are the approaches that need to continue within your media, relation strategies and which ones need to be adjusted? Understanding that we're in a new dynamic and fluid environment, I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with someone who truly knows both sides of the media, microphone,
3 - 0:02:13
and so it's my great pleasure to welcome Kim Gettys, a former award-winning radio journalist who culminated her career as news director at Newstalk 1010 CFRB in Toronto, the country's largest and most influential radio newsroom. Today, Kim continues to educate student journalists and also coaches leaders of every stripe in all sectors. With media and presentation skills and strategies. So it's quite a great pleasure for me to welcome to the Speaking of Media podcast, Kim Gettys Hi Kim, Hi Kate, really excited that you took the time to join us here and I'm really looking forward to the discussion 'cause we always have a good time and insightful thoughts I think. And so I'm looking forward to that in this episode.
3 - 0:02:50
So yeah, me too we literally used to sit around the living room and talk about what was going on in the news and current affairs. And so on. In your news career you used to interact with leaders, so political leaders subject matter experts, pundits as a coach. Now you're obviously turning the tables a little bit and sort of using that fantastic experience to help leaders communicate. What in your mind is the most important thing that leaders don't get about communicating publicly?
1 - 0:03:23
I think first and foremost, they don't feel confident or strong enough to be a vulnerable leader. They have the title, they've earned it, whether they're a CEO, the director, or a manager of whatever it is, and they feel that they cannot be honest with the stakeholders, whether it's staff or stakeholders in the company that they can't say I don't have all the answers. I am not an expert at a B&C and they don't have that confidence to be vulnerable and so. That right there really erodes trust overtime because they are putting up this facade that I've got it, don't you worry. I've got it and it's it's not being honest with those people right?
1 - 0:04:11
And to say that you know something, I don't have an answer for you right now, but I will figure it out. Let me do some work on this because I've got a history of getting things done making those decisions. But right now on this file. Give me some time and I've got this and together we will come up with a plan. But leaders for many, many reasons won't do that.
1 - 0:04:38
They come at come at it late in the game I found I see the default is say nothing. I can't tell them I don't have the answer right. I got it and say nothing
3 - 0:04:54
like I mean I've talked to in my jobs. You know the universities and hospitals and so on. I'm talking and dealing with really smart people, super smart people. Whether it's administrators. Or professors or doctors. But the whole navigation of media and fear and suspicion about that is really tends to feed the mood I find.
3 - 0:05:02
I love vulnerability as sort of a descriptor of that things we talk about in this podcast. Often our authenticity and transparency is that something that comes up for you when you're talking to leaders
1 - 0:05:25
absolutely absolutely. You have to be to be effective, as transparent as you can be. Now you're going to be dealing with some really sensitive files that you cannot tell your staff members or the stakeholders every little detail. But if you can be transparent in your messaging to say you know something, I'm going to pull back the veil and tell you this because we have a years long trusted relationship with each other and I need you to know where I'm coming from on this that generates such loyalty overtime. And you're, you're just signaling to your staff that you know something. I'm letting you win. You're with me.
1 - 0:06:08
We are part of a team. I may be your leader, but together we're going to do this because I've given you a piece of information and I entrusted it with you.
3 - 0:06:21
Bill Walker. Guy, you might know from the PR world in Toronto, his phrases open up. Don't cover up right? And he goes into great detail in his book again in a social media world about. What the benefits of that are when people are very leaders are very hesitant about that, why it's beneficial and we talk about that all the time on here, so that's a great way to kind of go into that. Building a story in a newsroom is still building a story.
3 - 0:06:45
You need conflict. You need people. You need quotes and you need to be able to form a story out of elements. Is there a way that you can kind of describe to the audience the way that you piece a story together in a very generic way?
1 - 0:07:02
Sure, I mean the heart of a story is emotion. How why should I be emotionally connected to your story? Why do I care? Is it relatable? If I can't relate to it, well, why? Why should I do the interview with you?
1 - 0:07:17
And so when it comes to interviewing a newsmaker that is first and foremost in my mind, it's it's what's the emotional connection to my audience. You know, as a reporter, as a news director and in some of the guidance I gave, my reporters was. It's not just what your news maker is saying to you, because nine times out of 10 they are talking points get beyond it so. How do they look? How do they express themselves?
1 - 0:07:46
Do they sound frustrated? Do they sound really happy? Do they sound angry? And I I describe it that way and paint the picture because as a reporter, if you're talking to a news maker and they are spitting nails angry, say you know something Mr Premier, you sound really angry and they will react to that emotional connection. You're darn right. I'm angry because I set this legislation.
1 - 0:08:12
Five years ago, and it's not being executed the right way. That will be the money clip that will be the gem, but that will spark the conversation moving forward. There are some journalists who say well you are guiding that story well. If I see something I, that's just what I do and it will generate that next level of the story. Does that make sense?
3 - 0:08:44
Absolutely. I mean, I guess the other thing that's kind of developed, we're gonna get into COVID here. But the other thing that's kind of generated here in Ontario with the premier is the process story, right? It's gotten to be almost expected that the 1:30 press conference is not happening at 1:30, right? We've seen that over and over again, and on a day when maybe the news isn't quite as newsworthy as they think it is and they get tipped off like you say, with an emotion or something that's not quite on script. Yeah, you're going to cover what they're talking about, generally speaking. But is there a giveaway that you know you've been covering COVID, let's say for eight months, but they're late again for the fourth time in two weeks.
3 - 0:09:20
In terms of what they're doing, they're not looking organized. Those are all like cracks in the Jaromir, right?
1 - 0:09:30
Yeah, they're not ready. They're scrambling up to the last minute. They don't have all their talking points down. All the Ducks in the row are not there, and they're piercing it together up to the very last minute. That's what that says to me, right? And that their teens haven't come together with. Here's the message. Here's what you're going to say.
1 - 0:09:49
How many times you're gonna repeat it. And This is why it's all just kind of being thrown against the wall and and you say to your the premier or whoever your boss is, you've done this before. Just you've got this and and just be you. Whether it's folksy and just repeat that kind of messaging, because that's what we've come to expect from you and the audience. Will continue to buy it right,
3 - 0:10:19
but ducks in a row for example. So like when people are now pushing for restrictions to change or be upgraded or whatever. There's a feeling from the media that they're moving too slowly or they've taken too much time. I think the classic thing is it's obviously in motion and the day before they're having the press conference. The premier can't help but sort of give away what's happening. He knows what's happening, but the wheels take that long to get going, and I know that at.
3 - 0:10:44
I'm sure you'd love to have the story before the press conference. Am I wrong?
1 - 0:10:52
Absolutely yes, of course.
3 - 0:10:54
In the world we live in, yes. But tell people about that.
1 - 0:10:57
It's been two years into this pandemic. So they have those templates written and so insert you know, the fire that's going now. And here's the elements that the talking points and the narrative that surrounding this this new crisis that we're dealing with as a government as a premier 'cause you've already got the template, you know what they're going to say or what the subject matter is, given who they have coming out the podium you're going to touch, maybe on what that announcement. And then it's it's what we've been after them for for the last six months. You haven't answered that yet. We have very long memories and we need an answer, and we will go there, right?
3 - 0:11:41
The other thing I'm finding in COVID is that the opposition is really getting frozen out, right? So now the premiums got an announcement. Well, you're going because if he talks about COVID, you gotta have the new update. But he doesn't mind you covering the fact that he's opening a new wing at the Peterborough Hospital. The downside for him again is it is.
3 - 0:11:57
More or less scheduled. And so when things are going well and he's able to kind of get brownie points. It's great, but if he knows he has to kind of show up, be it the mayor or the premier or the Prime Minister, he might get tired with the egg of the day, right? And so that is, that's the downside. Yes, because you didn't used to get this kind of access to the leaders, right?
1 - 0:12:20
No question and I would say it's a double edged sword. I mean at the very beginning, both Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau were they were on it. They were present. We needed to see. As a society, we needed to see our leaders leading us. It was also new and scary and we didn't know what was happening and that's great.
1 - 0:12:35
Then they became overexposed and they were constantly in our faces when saying nothing new and then it's like OK, it's too much and now your messages are becoming mixed. They're not making sense what was valid yesterday isn't valid today. Well, wait a minute. Three months ago you said this, but the science hasn't changed. Now you're telling us to follow the science, always following science. Your but your political decisions are going in a different direction than they were ghosts and see them, and now it's it's. Where are they?
1 - 0:13:16
Now we're getting into new narratives and stories with the pandemic as we leap, go into recovery, and we need to ask them about that next steps. What's the plan? We rarely get a. Concrete answer in terms of what's the plan getting us out of this?
3 - 0:13:37
So this really the word unprecedented has been used like to death during COVID everywhere. But the reality is that this was an organic crisis, right? Or organic story? What would you say about how well politicians or leaders have pivoted to be able to deal with even they thought was going to be what happened if that makes sense
1 - 0:14:02
right now? I'd say there's a. There's such a lack of leadership on so many levels. You know from politicians to police. And and you did ask me about the media and how the media is handled. This yeah, so I think you know there's lots of blame to go around. What I have seen over the past two years it's happened before, but this gotcha, this gotcha journalism?
1 - 0:14:28
Oh we have a picture of the the premier up at his cottage during you know the the crisis in Ottawa out snowmobiling and you know we
3 - 0:14:38
were going on holidays early on, right?
1 - 0:14:41
Exactly? And so stepping back. Like why do people care? Is this relevant to? Were they not doing their job like they said they were? Was it a a flagrant I? I I gave the impression I was here, but I was actually somewhere else.
1 - 0:14:59
Yeah, that's a problem, but the premier he doesn't. He can't take an hour to go for a snowmobile ride. I don't know
3 - 0:15:11
I. I feel like I feel like the pandemics just kind of broken all the constructs right? So I thought he actually dealt with that pretty well when he was here. He basically said that living in the world of remote work, right? He can do as much as long as he's got the right communications at his cottage or wherever to be in communications with the people that he needs to talk to. And yes, once he makes those decisions as we talked about the wheels of whatever it takes to get all these things put together has to happen, so it's not like you're on the phone 24 hours a day, but it's a great. It's a great answer now in COVID while I'm working remotely or hybrid Lee, right? So
1 - 0:15:48
yeah, his answer 100% effective. His comms people got it right.
3 - 0:15:52
The one thing that kind of came up late in the pandemic we've dealt with around the time of this taping was the. The truck convoy that landed in Ottawa as we're talking now. Three weeks into that huge crisis for many different responsible parties. As we like to talk about on this on this podcast. Lots of responsibility. Lots of blame to go around there, but something that I wondered about from the early stages and I could see from a crisis situation that it was going to possibly be a real tough go for the police chief in Ottawa when things were looking very difficult.
1 - 0:16:27
I was surprised to see him. Go, but as I I think back, I'm like, you know, something. The history of of Peter Sloly is something to discuss. You know something. He was a top cop here in Toronto during G20 and to take you back to G20 that that protest protest about anti capitalism. It just it became violent.
1 - 0:16:50
We had pockets of violence and police brutality where civil rights were trampled on. We had. Innocent citizens getting caught up in kettling and confined to certain areas and what it led to. Class action lawsuits and citizens actually getting paid out for that. So I mentioned that because as the backdrop, Peter slowly was one of the cops on the ground during G20 it went South.
1 - 0:17:17
There was violence. So if you think about that as kind of a backdrop to what he's dealt with and now he's got this. These occupiers in Ottawa and it is Canadian tradition. Canadian tradition is to be nonviolent. Wait this out and let's try to go through diplomatic channels to try to solve this so it doesn't escalate and turn into something that we've experienced in G20 that could be the reasoning behind the inaction.
1 - 0:17:51
But it comes back to a plan and you know, we we don't know what the internal documentation is. We may find out, but you there was had to be a plan. Now you've got the citizens of Ottawa counter protesting against the occupiers.
3 - 0:18:12
Suddenly the neighborhood behind them is on their back and it's a new pressure, right? Not social media this time people in your face on the streets of auto
1 - 0:18:21
crazy as a police chief, the very basic laws. Were they were not being followed and police were not ticketing or even talking to them and citizens of auto going. You can't even patrol that there's a problem here.
3 - 0:18:38
There is a there is a point where they have to. Kind of you know corral and let things kind of work themselves out because numbers do become a point of view. All to say is that there's always factors. I've learned overtime being off and on the other side of the place where you have to figure these things out. There's always factors. And considerations that no one else is even going to bring into the mix.
3 - 0:18:54
And it's not necessarily the responsibility of news reporters to do that, at least initially, to understand it. But it's fascinating that this grew into a crisis that ultimately ended in a way that I don't think too many people would have believed. You know, even a couple of weeks ago, they would have thought something would have happened,
1 - 0:19:16
and I think you know, just the different levels of government from municipal to provincial to federal. I wonder if it's this Canadian. Arrogance as a backdrop that we didn't think would happen at the White House in January 6 could happen in Canada. Was it naivete that this doesn't happen here or we can handle it? This is Canada after all.
1 - 0:19:40
I think there probably will be obviously a post mortem, but probably a public inquiry and and I think some of these questions will be asked. We
3 - 0:19:52
could talk about that for hours. I just want to kind of get a few more things in under COVID so words matter. You know that better than probably most people out there, right? So the whole idea around sort of colloquial Ising things to make them a little bit more understandable. So in COVID I've noticed rapid testing. Everybody knows what that is now.
3 - 0:20:10
Like before that, I wonder what that would be fully vaccinated. I've gone back and forth on this one. It drives me nuts because so in the early days there's going to be. This was before we thought we were going to get boosters, so if we get 2 then we're fully vaccinated. The media jumps out kind of throws it out there.
3 - 0:20:27
It's interesting that the message delivers eventually. Adopt it and then it kind of gets confusing because if you have a third, are you fully vaccinated all these kinds of things, but just more generically, media types like to not dumb it down, but kind of conceptualize it into headlines that people can really easily digest, like when you're sitting there behind your computer terminal. Do you guys just like come up with this or where does that
1 - 0:20:53
come up? This goes Scotiabank Arena's coach. Yes, because you know if there is a you know a medical term, a clinical explanation to something, and it's. I'm sorry I'm not a doctor. What does that mean? You have to make it relatable and understandable for your audience. So yes, we have conversations about it, but it's are you hearing this in conversations with your friends, your family on social media?
1 - 0:21:23
Has it become? You know, the acronym? Or is that what people are talking about is that is that the common language now and so if it is, is it still in context? Do people understand what it means more so than the the clinical term for it? So yeah.
3 - 0:21:47
We get to do that. That's your job. You
1 - 0:21:49
never, ever take anything out of out of context, but you know, Keith, you know this when you're talking or interviewing a a medical expert or a legal expert. And it's like, I'm sorry I really need you to help me understand this and talk to me as if I was a patient of yours. Or talk to me as if I'm just coming into your your law firm. Because if I don't understand it, the listeners won't understand it. You can call it dumbing it down, but it's just how do people talk to each other?
1 - 0:22:20
That's where we start, right?
3 - 0:22:26
Well, love your point about people not understanding and so like when we talk about crisis communication, we say don't expect people to understand your business right? So think about what they're wondering about you try to really specific around be keeping it simple, putting it in context, but don't expect them to understand all the considerations that you're not going to talk about or don't want to talk about, frankly. And try to really hone in on you know what the audience is almost expecting of you. And I think that that's sort of a whole social media kind of reality. Now it's a conversation people have to kind of go back and forth, understand and you have to.
3 - 0:22:58
Almost as a news person I think. And maybe you can talk about this. Almost be to the point where you have to validate your stories in. By viewer feedback or people challenging or asking you about the way that you do your work or what you're coming up with. Do you find that at all?
1 - 0:23:19
Yeah, I mean you know when you come back from that interview with your news maker and you're telling your news director about it. All your senior anchor and they say so, why do I care? It means nothing to me. It's going to be not mean nothing to our audience if I come away from that interview. And I can't sell it. Why did I do the interview?
1 - 0:23:41
So you're already prepared, Keith. Going in to that interview that it's like this is what we want out of them. Get this right because this is what our audience cares about. How many people are going to lose their jobs because you know they cannot build the widgets anymore? Does that make sense?
3 - 0:24:02
And that's the relatable factor, right? Yeah, their job. Usually around this time in the podcast I say how can people get into your world of work or whatever. Maybe what I'd like to ask of you, Kim is sort of pulling all this stuff together, the world and the environment that we're living in right now, media, communications and so on. What are you telling leaders about communicating specifically through the media, but communicating in the world that we're currently living in?
1 - 0:24:30
I guess the number one thing I tell them is just be real and try to be as transparent as you can because people see through fakeness so quickly now and they will call you out on it. And if if you're not being your true self then they won't do business with you. It is absolutely the key foundation principle for success. Whether you are a CEO of a large or a. Corporation or you are starting your own business or you are in the media. If you don't have that level of trust, you have nothing right and that comes back to, you know. Just being a vulnerable leader and 'cause if you don't communicate your message well, it may be so far from what you truly believe in, but you haven't communicated well and you haven't been honest with them.
1 - 0:25:25
So in the absence of that. They'll take whatever narrative that really holds true to them, and they'll run with it. And that will become the story you've given up ownership of your own story.
3 - 0:25:42
We talked about the fact that opportunity can come out of crisis, right? So 80% of the places that come under the sudden crisis that you don't know too much about. But for very relatable reasons, it's news. That's their time in the spotlight. And do they handle it well or not?
3 - 0:25:55
Can actually, strangely, when you're on stage and under the spotlight if you do a good job, people didn't know about you before. It's like. Well, at least they were able to handle whatever kind of trouble they got into. Do you think that's valid?
1 - 0:26:10
So yeah, absolutely in a crisis. That's where true leadership shines, right? Because you're you don't have all the answers you have to lead the team and they've gotta follow and you gotta get by in. And it's about the words you choose and the level of transparency that you afford, your stakeholders and your team and you know you. You get through it and they will remember that that you know something. This leader, you know, took us along on the ride and they didn't have it all figured out, but they made sure that we felt that we were empowered that we could do this together as a team and that we will get through it because they were working harder or as hard as we were.
1 - 0:26:50
To get it done.
3 - 0:26:56
Kim, it's been great for you for you to have taken the time to be on here. I find it really interesting that you were sort of in the heat of the media when this got started and now you're like on the other side, you kind of get to play literally both sides of the table on this. Just a quick impression of like this last two years. From your standpoint, you've seen it from lots of different angles. Do you think this is headed? Are we coming out of this soon, and if so, how well?
1 - 0:27:24
Wow, great question. I would say
3 - 0:27:26
probably should have asked that in minute two of this.
1 - 0:27:29
I would say yes, we are coming out of this. I mean, we're hearing it from the science experts, the doctors, the politicians. We have a plan now and we have timelines to come out of it. We will live with COVID like the flu and that will be the next strategy in terms of how we conduct ourselves as a society. How well did we come out of it? Well? That will be written now for the next decade.
1 - 0:27:55
Keith, right, depending on the industry and what you went through and on what level. Personal financial, medical that story has yet to be written.
3 - 0:28:13
Well, I mean we could do this for hours literally. So love hearing your perspective on these things. I know that people really appreciate sort of understanding from a media POV. What's going on out there from somebody? Who's really, you know, lived the front lines of it, so I really appreciate you sharing your experience and your insights and my friend. You always deliver so well in these circumstances.
3 - 0:28:30
So I really appreciate the time. Teams doing a lot of different businesses. She's available to people who are looking to get this kind of help. We're going to put all her information and contact info that she wants to share in the show notes and Kim. If you're not, be prepared to be bowled over by all the business coming your way, or at least the questions.
3 - 0:28:50
I
1 - 0:28:52
would love that. Thank you so much. I had so much fun doing this. And no, it's been great and I would
2 - 0:28:57
love to come back. Alright, thanks so much thank you and so we really got into some great topics with Kim in this episode and some that I think are really worth. Revisiting in greater depth and So what we're going to do, I believe, is we're going to put together another solo episode when we haven't really done in quite some time to acknowledge and a scratch a little bit deeper on some of the themes that we talked about today. For now. Thanks for connecting. Speaking of media is available on all podcast platforms, including Instagram, LinkedIn under my profile, and on Twitter Media speaking.
2 - 0:29:27
You can even find us on the audible app or simply by asking Alexa. I hope you'll continue to listen like. Comment and subscribe to the cast as that will help us expand the show's reach and attract quality content and guests like Kim. Today, I'm Keith Marnoch
3 - 0:29:46
and through other episodes I look forward to our next time together when we will once again be Speaking of media.