Kevin Newman: A Network News Correspondent's Message to Communicators (Ep.3)

Interview: Canadian Journalist and network news correspondent and investigative reporter for CBC, CTV, Global, and ABC News speaks on the state of journalism and social media news for the benefit of corporate communicators who are looking to engage with media.

Elements included in this episode:
Kevin's early days in journalism.
How accountability separates true journalism from undocumented news sources.
The state of the traditional news media.
How corporations need to position themselves to be more authentic to support their brands.
How to deal with media in a crisis or generally under scrutiny by media.
What an investigative reporter might know - that you don't.
The trait your spokesperson needs to possess.
Your audience is broader than you think
9/11 news memories
What you don't know about the ratings of national newscasts in Canada and the US.

Kevin Newman can be found on Instagram at:
@kevinnewman

Visit SPEAKING OF MEDIA on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/MediaSpeaking

Join the SPEAKING OF MEDIA COMMUNICATOR'S DISCUSSION GROUP on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/419214615993269

See Speaking of Media on Instagram:
@speakingofmedia
https://www.instagram.com/speakingofmedia/

And join the conversation on Twitter at:
https://twitter.com/MediaSpeaking

Keith Marnoch is on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-marnoch/

Intro / extro Music courtesy of :
~~Roa Music~~
▶YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/RoaMusic
▶Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ETpo...
▶Soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/roa_music1031

Transcript

Kevin Newman - network news correspondent for ABC News, CTV, CBC, Global National

 It's one thing for communicators to establish and share best practices amongst themselves about how to effectively deal with the media. But do those practices really matter to the media? What are the best practices to engage when trying to promote your message or defend your situation? What is the true value of storytelling and being authentic in your communications? Well, get set to hear from one of Canada's most recognized news, correspondents, here, at home in the United States and around the world.
 
0:00:40
Kevin Newman joins us on this edition of Speaking of Media, the podcast where communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling. I'm Keith Marnoch, a former journalist turned corporate communicator, and I'm hoping that you, as a communicator or someone who speaks on behalf of your organization. Will join me for each episode to learn from industry experts on both sides of the media. Microphone about tangible ways to share your stories and messages, and also, perhaps more importantly, how to avoid getting caught in a negative media storm. Throughout I will be drawing on my professional communications experiences that have spanned more than 30 years.

0:01:17
Kevin Newman's Media Career, played out over a similar period of time, launching his involvement in journalism from his early days at Western University in London on through a meteoric rise in the TV news business, including leadership roles at CTV, CBC, and the Global Television Network in Canada, as well as a celebrated period of his work at ABC News in the United States. In our discussion, Kevin provides a Frank view of how media react to what communicators offer him and his colleagues. He also gives an insightful perspective on the state of broadcast journalism in an era where social media has become so pervasive. When I had the pleasure of speaking with him, I found his views to be relevant and important for this podcast, he spoke with the communicator audience in mind, and so we welcome Kevin Newman to the Speaking of Media podcast.

2 - 0:02:17
Kevin, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. On the cast. Thanks for the invite. There's probably no one higher place than you in this country to speak and consider the state of journalism here in Canada and around the world. Your resume is just a string of superlatives, but two things to start. One of us went to journalism school and the other one realized an amazing journalism careers.

0:02:37
And the second one is many communicators. Might easily identify with the call letters. CBC CTV, CII, and. ABC, but they may not be aware of CHRW. Can you kind of string a few of those letters together for us?

3 - 0:02:58
So just to come out I I didn't go to journalism school, but I played in journalism when I was a Western I I helped start up a news department at the campus radio station Ch RW and sort of I went and ordered a couple of books from the Columbia School of Journalism one summer and started reading about journalism. I was kind of. Interested in it? I wasn't sure it was going to be my profession, but I thought, well, you know University is a great time to try stuff out. So um, so I taught myself that summer.

0:03:29
According to these books that that Columbia had put out and then we started up the station and I made my mistakes by doing instead of sort of classroom work. And I mean, I think the benefit of it was that I understood that there were real stakes. But if you did make a mistake, you were broadcasting, you weren't just, you know, giving a project to a Prof. So, um, you know that was a good early lesson that you have to be really, really certain about. You know what you put out there because you have to stand by it and there's always. You know, lawyers at the ready.

2 - 0:04:04
If you made a mistake. I imagine, and I've heard you say previously, the curiosity was a real driver for you. You weren't in journalism, but what was it? That sort of lit a fire under you.

3 - 0:04:17
Um, I was. I was always intrigued. I was always a news junkie. You know, from the time that I was a teenager, I would be the guy to be watching conventions. You know, my watch inaugurations. I watch election nights and that would be my jam. So I was always interested in journalism.

0:04:30
I wasn't sure I was tough enough for journalism. That's why campus radio was so good. But I remember this very clearly. I was working in Seattle W We were up and running and I called the London theater 'cause I wanted to interview Leonard Nimoy, who of course spent years as Spock on Star Trek, and he was in London on a one-man play about. Girls brother or no Davinci's brother feel big so anyway.

0:04:58
Um and I called up and I said yeah this is Kevin from Sierra W like to interview Mr. Nimoy and the answer came back. What time would you like and I thought holy cow that this journalism thing if you represented by you know an organization, you can get a backstage pass to anything and you know I I have a wide interest and so the theater was one of them. Horses and other news was another, and it was. It was amazing to me that I could get as close to the front of the line to witness things and to talk to people as

2 - 0:05:39
anybody can. That sounds very familiar to somebody I know. Being able to kind of get backstage get behind the scenes of applications or things that you're interested in it so it can be a wonderful way to open those kinds of doors. Yeah, you learn.

3 - 0:05:54
You learn a little about a lot. You don't learn a lot about a little. So you can. You can like if you're like me and you have a wide variety of interests and mostly reporters generally are our general assignment reporters. They're not experts at anything,

2 - 0:06:10
but you could have a dinner conversation about a wide variety of things. I love your insight about you know you can go and find it. Find out about it, but when you're actually reporting on it, you have that added pressure or that added check that you need to be good at it and not only be accurate, but in some cases, if you're in broadcast, perhaps even entertaining with the way that you provide or relate them right? Relate the information, no matter that accountability piece I think is really important because you know lots of people say,

3 - 0:06:42
well, I read it. You know I read it on social media. And one of the things I tell people, and some of my friends and we've just been through an incredible and we're still in it, an incredible air of misinformation. Disinformation is that if you're a professional journalist, you have to stand by your work because it could be challenged because you're posting it. You know, on CBC you're posting it. You're reporting in global or whatever, and so people can Sue you if you're wrong, you defame somebody. If the information is inaccurate, the thing about social media posts is they don't exist anywhere.

0:07:15
It's a platform and they're all over the world, so the legal profession can't go to Twitter and say I'm going to Sue you in Ontario because of something that I read in Ontario. You can't get them. So the thing about social media is that and this is what I tell everybody. What is it like? There's no accountability if you're wrong.

0:07:35
But if you're a journalist, there's enormous accountability. If you're wrong, people will Sue you for, and I've been sued for millions. Thankfully, none of them worked, but they try to intimidate you that way, and so there's an accountability side to what journalism is. And there's no accountability on what you read on social media.

2 - 0:07:58
We used to hear about, you know, integrity trusted media, you know, some news organizations would use that as taglines for the news organizations that they supported, and so on. But that's really. That's really one of the separators. Now I know that you're, you know, an advocate for investing in trusted and obvious news sources and trying to speak in how that intersects or interplays. I suppose with social media, what onus is on traditional news sources to separate themselves from less than reputable or fringe type media.

3 - 0:08:36
Well, I think I think I think traditional mainstream media needs to be, you know, much more transparent and explanatory about their process. We're still not explaining how we reach the conclusions that we reach well enough. We still think that there are enough people out there that will trust us. And frankly, there aren't. You know the numbers of people who mistrust mainstream media or are growing.

0:08:51
But that issue of trust, I think, is important. You know not only for media but for anybody in communications. Because people are people. Naturally, human beings naturally want to develop a relationship with the people that are providing information on either side and learning to trust that somebody is being fair and accurate and open is a process. So if you're you know if you're a company, your brand isn't just what you broadcast in the same way that what I say isn't just that the reason people might believe me a little bit more than the other person that they're reading on on on.

0:09:37
Online is that they have a relationship with me and so brands I think and in and in communications you know corporate officers. It's it's. It's no use copying what we do and and and broadcasting from the Mount. You have to look at everything as a relationship, trust builder and that takes a whole lot of time. It takes a whole lot of commitment and it takes a conversation that you have to have about.

0:10:05
What do we stand for, what our principles? What are, where is our moral core? How are we? Helping people. Um, all those kinds of soft discussions that you know.

0:10:20
Many corporations don't have and journalists need to have more so. Those conversations, I think of the conversations for the future, for, for any, any kinds of communications, because you have to come from a point of authenticity and truth. Otherwise, you know. You risk. You know not only self-destruction, but you risk in a corporate sense, you risk not being able to attract the kind of people you want in your company.

0:10:53
You have to have thought about, you know where do we want to impact? How do we want to impact? How do we treat people? Do we stand by our products so they're making the world better? Are they? Are they making something better?

0:11:08
And those aren't necessarily discussions that have gone on, you know up until now.

2 - 0:11:14
And I, I think they need to. In terms of myself talking to communicators and training and teaching communicators, especially in large public-facing issues or crisis situations, trying to get either communicator or having senior leaders acknowledge that being more transparent and more authentic can actually aid in response. When a company or an organization is up against it with media, have you seen the difference between a company that shuts down or the one that's actually willing to? Come forward and address issues. I'm thinking from the investigative world, you know your time with W 5 and so on. Obviously, you're challenging people. Would you say that it's accurate that those who actually show up for an interview or do respond?

0:11:57
Actually, probably get a better shake in the end than those who really try to Turtle, and you know, try to ignore what's facing them. Yeah, I mean we are running an obligation to try to get the other side of the story.

3 - 0:12:20
And even though it's I've sat across from so many CEOs as an Investigative Reporter and felt for them because they, they, they know that I'm prepared. I know that they are prepared and it's excruciating, but I I have to believe that you know the simple statement that says no comment on the part of the viewer or on the part of the consumer is seen as an admission of guilt. That you have to sit there and take your licks and most people if they're well prepared, and if they really thought it through and it's not just like messaging crap, but if they have a real point to make as a journalist, I have to allow them to make that point. That's my legal obligation and it's my principle job obligation. And you know, there will be some.

0:13:11
You know nasty reporters out there that you know might not use the whole phrase but. I think overall, yes. I believe that being seen to stand up for your company being seen to stand up for principle and admit when something is wrong and a mistake has been made is entirely to the benefit of your brand that you know so many times. I've said. Here's the statement from the company, but it's meaningless. You know?

0:13:41
That's not really going to help them much. They, but I have also seen people come on camera who are not prepared and have not thought this through. Who has listened to their lawyers, who are saying don't talk about this. Don't talk about that. And so they've got deer in the headlights and they look guilty.

0:13:57
The better discussion I've had to have is like where was I wrong? What are the implications of admitting I'm wrong? How do I make things better, and what pledge could I make to what I've actually I'm taking to correct the mistake? Because, you know, again, it's about trust. It's about a human relationship.

0:14:17
And if you are just a piece of paper as a Corporation,

2 - 0:14:22
you're not winning that argument. We've talked in the past about sort of the half issue, and you mentioned it. You know, issue issuing a statement, and I realize that in certain circumstances there are. Scenarios or there are elements that make corporations or companies think that way but in essence? A company is, you know, technically responding, but they're not really open to being tested on that or being questioned. Beyond that, we see that, again, South of the border, when the President believes that he's had all his communication channels cut off when he doesn't have Twitter to refer to when he's got a briefing room in his house.

0:14:51
But again, just for communicators, when you decide to issue a statement, you know the realities of that. Are that? Yes, you have responded, but I can't believe that that's ever really taken very well. And although you may feel an obligation to at least refer to it, you're basically going to be giving if there's an opposition or someone who's contrary to what the company is doing that gives the other side a real field day to go after whatever the issue might be well,

3 - 0:15:29
and you don't know that I don't have an employee of yours, a senior employee that is already gone on camera is accused you of many things, right? I'm not going to tell you that because that's not part of of of what investigations do. So you may find yourself by a simple statement like contradicting somebody in your own company, or somebody who's been a customer or somebody else and you don't have complete control over the messaging at that point. So I I, I think it's important to say that you should never ever speak an untruth and. Almost 100% of the time it's the cover-up that gets people.

0:16:04
It's not the initial problem, so you know quite often you can get people in positions who are listening to, you know, forgive me lawyers, but listen to lawyers are going too much. They think that if they just put this out you know. And if it's not entirely truthful that it'll go away. But in 40 years of journalism, I can tell you that that you know as soon as you put out something that's untruthful. There are many other people who are going to call me up.

0:16:31
And tell me that this and truthfully provide the evidence likely to prove it.

2 - 0:16:39
It's untruthful. And then you're in real trouble. Think about is we're talking about this role and the choice of spokesperson for an organization. We talk a lot about the various elements that can go into making a decision on who that might be, how far up the chain you want to elevate it. For me, I'm always feeling like someone who's emotionally intelligent who has obviously enough clout to represent, but also perhaps look forward on an issue is someone who is good to put forward.

3 - 0:17:08
Yeah, I think that's key and it's not the only key, just for like what you tell a Reporter. But all of your employees are going to watch that interview too. And so that person isn't just, you know, speaking externally for the company to speaking internally as well, so someone would, as you said, with an emotional EQ, somebody who can frame a story. Around something and someone who genuinely feels the words that they're saying. Is is is is better and it's not just 'cause it's better television.

0:17:36
It's better because you're. You're also sending a signal to, you know the people inside your shop that it's OK. You work, you work for a company that learns from its mistakes or you work for a company that cares about getting things right. Anne Anne in some ways, that's almost more important because you know today's workforce. You know more and more people want to believe in the work that they do.

0:17:59
It's not enough to get the paycheck and do a good job there's, there's. There's a connection on a moral level, and so you know somebody who can't frame things that way doesn't think that's important. Is going to, you know, not be the best person I think to put forward. I do think that EQ and someone who genuinely is truthful. And human. Is a better spokesperson in most cases.

2 - 0:18:41
I want to come back to a few of those things, but I also want to. I think most of our audience will know exactly the trajectory of your career, but just want to go back a little bit here and just sort of validating all these things that you're telling us and why it's so special to have you on the show. So in 1994, you had already worked for Global and CTV and you would have been anchoring. I guess midday on CBC Newsworld. Is that correct? Yeah it was.

0:19:05
It was a new newscast on the CBC Network across it. And things were looking from our viewers' POV. Pretty rosy, but behind the scenes and with you, there were a lot of decisions and challenges coming your way. Even business is kind of brutal.

3 - 0:19:20
Yeah, I know I was. I was about to be replaced and then they didn't. Didn't have another place for me or they didn't communicate well enough.

2 - 0:19:28
So I took another job offer. And so that's what I want to talk about. So you went South of the border in a rather celebrated way. You worked at ABC News. You found yourself on Good Morning America, and you were anchoring and corresponding for World News and all its various shows, and so on under Peter Peter Genic. Worse for people who don't know that Canadian as well, I'm always curious to know how much the Canadian heritage was referred to in The Newsroom, 'cause it certainly was never really very evident.

0:19:57
On-air it was sort of a Morley safer secret. I've always said, you know, it was like this little club,

3 - 0:20:06
I mean Peter Peter Jennings put it right. I mean, the Canadians and news organizations in the states have a distance. It's not our country and so we report on it. Perhaps a little bit more critically. It a little more clearly. Because we're not as fully vested.

0:20:21
Although Peter later became an American, and especially after 911, that sort of convinced him that he was American and Canadian, and then I sort of came around to that as well. But looking at anything with a level of distance and a level of dispassion is better. You know when you're feeling sort of enveloped in emotion. It can be tricky. I mean it can be it can there.

0:20:51
There there was one place though that it was a negative for me and that's you know I hadn't grown up in a country where you know a large majority of people were African Americans and so it wasn't as attuned to the racial prejudice that they grew up with as I needed to be. If I was reporting in America, but I had many great buddies and friends that schooled me in that African American producers and many others, but. Yeah, so in insight. In many ways, it was better in a few ways.

2 - 0:21:25
It was a disadvantage. And then in many respects you could have been the next if there was this the next Lloyd Robertson or the next Knowlton Asher or Peter Mansbridge there were, you were up for anchoring both of those national newscasts at one point I believe. But your career in you know for different reasons when a different way. I've got to think as sort of a fairly close watcher that might have brought a great variety to your career that you might not have otherwise been pursuing. But it kind of fell into and really took advantage of.

3 - 0:21:57
Yeah, I mean after the American experience, which was good, I learned a heck of a lot. I wanted to create something and so global. You know the third network in Canada gave me the opportunity to create their new national newscast, help create. And so we create a global national and it's still there and you know anyone watching this that's created something that lasts. You know it's really special.

0:22:17
It's like a startup that succeeded, and so you know when I look back in my very career that one is probably this most special to me because we started with nothing and five years later we were the leading national newscast beating the other guys. So you know that that that felt really good because that was the creation and that was. That was me and Anna. A very small group of people acting on instincts and trying to find a new audience for national news where one hadn't existed in.

2 - 0:22:53
Yeah, it was amazing, congratulations. So Speaking of global national, you were a part of that sort of founding group. And 911 comes along after moving over from ABC. I can tell you that this is maybe somebody who you worked with Aaron Brown. It was 911 was his first day at CNN on his way to work. It was my fourth 4th day or days after you started, correct?

0:23:12
Yeah, it was a brand new network and in 16 hours and you know sometimes is you know some of your listeners may know you know things forged in fire mature quicker and I think that was the case for us. Any remedy reminiscences about 911 knowing that it was really at the at the start of that, that grand project that you had. You know re essence created.

3 - 0:23:40
Yeah, it was. It's interesting it's coming up to the 20th anniversary of it. So you know this is history for a good number of people. But for my generation of journalists this was the Seminole event and the reason why is you know, up until that time there weren't any Canadian reporters who had covered Canadian troops in combat in two generations. We didn't have war correspondents other than ones that lived in London and covered other people's wars, but this was a small group of very young journalists who suddenly had a catastrophic story to cover. That was scary that impacted their families that impacted everything about, you know our two countries, and so it became a sort of the defining. I think experience because it's you know, the Afghan war is only now winding down and it looks like the Taliban is going to be back in charge.

0:24:28
But that is a 20-year span that we've all covered, so it, I think for our generation, that was it. I think for this generation, of course, misinformation, the Trump years.

2 - 0:24:46
You know the disintegration of trust in our profession is the story that they'll probably remember best. I feel like it was around that time when network news, especially in the states, that's when you started to sense that the networks were kind of going into their own corners. Yeah, the Fox News coming forward, the Bush years, and so on from a broadcast network standpoint, you know it's obviously been very accentuated in the last four years. Is that something that you can kind of pull back on? Is that something that's you know what those guys are making too much money at this, unfortunately,

3 - 0:25:22
and you know the thing I have to remind everybody to is that, like. That hasn't happened in Canada, you know, are all news stations are still pretty much covering the news. So if you're engaging with an all-new station, CBC CTV Global, you could pretty well count or getting a fair shake, but I mean, I watch CNN. I watched MSNBC. I watch Fox News and those are opinion networks.

0:25:39
They're no longer news networks, and I mean the reason that they're making so much money is not only ratings, but they don't have to invest in covering the news. They put four people on a desk in the studio and a way to go. And that's cheap as hell. So I mean, they've been able to reduce the cost. They still call themselves a news network, but in my humble opinion there more opinion networks and they're.

0:26:01
They're kind of tainting what everyone thinks the news is. You know, I have many discussions with friends of mine about how you know the news is all opinion. I'm going. Yeah, those guys are doing that, but they're actually really small mounds. Like if you look at the leading ratings of CNN in all of America, maybe 1 million, 1.3 million at their highest.

0:26:23
That's the same audience. At least Aflam has at CTV National News. So because we're in the business of communications there they loom larger than they do in reality. So what I try to do is try to remind people that. Yeah, there the opinion networks, but not everybody is doing that, and in fact, you reach a bigger audience on the CBS Evening News or ABC's News, or CTV National News. And that is balanced real journalism, but unfortunately, it's not as fiery, and it's not as you know, it's it's not as electric, and maybe it's not as entertaining.

2 - 0:27:04
That's that's sort of my view of the other landscape right now. I look at, you know ... Your final year sort of doing work on W-5 and I think about 60 minutes. Do you still feel that there's still an influence in investigative network journalism? Not as much. To be honest,

3 - 0:27:23
I mean the numbers. There has been a reduction overall. But, um, you know, more people will watch 60 minutes than any other newscasts, and they're always in the top 10 in the United States. People forget that I worked at W-5 for five years. We went up against Hockey Night in Canada. We had the worst time slot you could possibly have in Canadian television and we average between 600 and a million viewers. Um on a Saturday night at seven against hockey.

0:27:49
So my answer to your question is yes, those are still influential. A lot of people still watch them. Not as many as used to for sure has been in decline, although not in the last year. Those the news has never had more ratings this year than it has in the last 15 years, but if you think you know you need to get on BNN or you need to get on, you know the all-news networks. Understand that you're not reaching many people if that's you.

0:28:20
You want to do if you're all going on BNN, you're reaching. You know the traders if that's what you want to do that, go to BNN, but like that's, you know 35,000 people right there. Influential, but if what you want to do is to reach your customers, if you want to reach the masses, you know you can go on on the all-news networks and get maybe 75,000. Or you can still try to get on, you know any national newscast and you're over 600,000, right? I mean, there's still.

0:28:50
They're still powerful. Draws the audience is older, no question. And how do you reach a younger audience? Well, I think you reach a younger audience by imagining that. If you as a company begin to think about investing in content creation.

0:29:06
And we're beginning to see that, right? We're beginning to see some of the big brands that are creating content that really has nothing to do with the brand other than feeling other than Association with. Somebody whose principles are good. You know Kapernick and all that stuff right? I believe that brands and companies and CEOs understand that investment in content.

0:29:34
Puts you in a place in people's minds in a way that advertising won't, and in a way that public relations don't do much of public relations. I think it's great for when you're in trouble, but if you really want to engage people's minds, you have to start thinking about authentic content that's good and well funded and done by professionals. And then you've got space in that mind space because I mean, we all know young people they've been marketed to hell, and they have. Huge bullshit meters and so you know, imagine that you can talk to them the same way you would talk to people our age.

2 - 0:30:22
I , it's just. It's just not true. You interviewed world leaders, celebrities, athletes at Olympic Games. You know people who found themselves in the news because of tragedy has that human connection or that human story changed much over the years. Now that we've got more ways to echo it out, or is it, you know, at the heart of it, a great story is a great story,

3 - 0:30:49
yeah? Great story, well told period end of the sentence. Yeah, you know. And that's true of any communicator that if you can tell a good story and tell it well, it's going to connect. I mean, think of it yourself. I mean, if you think of yourself in your own life, where have you heard great stories?

0:31:03
It sits around a campfire. It's someone relays it to you and thinks of how well you remember that. Right, that's the power of storytelling. It's a connection to memory into humanity that sticks. And so if you're a communicator and you're not telling stories that stick if you're just saying words and phrases and stuff to get the monkey off your back or whatever, then you're not really communicating.

0:31:31
Right, where is the emotion? What's the emotional connection? To me and in all my broadcasting, and in my anchoring and my reporting, I would always say how do I make an emotional connection? Because then I'm communicating. Right then somebody is going.

0:31:44
I could be that person. I'm not like that person. I'm glad I'm not that person, but they're having a conversation because they're emotionally engaged. And if you're not as a communicator, if you're not thinking about that emotional connection, then you're just talking words.

2 - 0:32:01
You're not really communicating. Has there ever been, you know, a world leader and newsmaker that's surprised you in terms of storytelling him that things you weren't expecting that came out of nowhere or something that you wouldn't leave memory? Yeah, those are those the best,

3 - 0:32:17
right?

2 - 0:32:19
I know that. I mean I don't know that you interviewed Mandela, for example, would that have been?

3 - 0:32:25
Yeah I did, and that was more intimidating for me than anything. I mean he, you know he was just out of jail and just emerging in the world and you know the only thing I could think ask him is why aren't you more bitter? Like if I was you. But you know any interview that I remember is the one where someone came with a good story to tell you. Know with Tom Hanks whether it was, you know, Robin Williams, whether it was. Share they all know like in an interview that there's a story to be told and I guess, but those aren't aren't the ones that I tend to remember.

0:32:58
The ones I tend to remember, and maybe this is just 'cause I. It made me feel better was the people who turned to me. Because no one else would listen. And so something bad happened to them and they had lived with it. And they had tried to fix it as best they could, and eventually, they picked up a phone they said can I just tell my story to you? Because I don't think this is right.

0:33:25
And as a Reporter, you can't go to every story like that, but you do your research and figure out now there's what's happening. This person might happen to somebody else too. And to sit across from somebody who has not been listened to. And give them the opportunity. To speak their truth. Um, I think that's the thing that I loved most about it all was that I could.

0:33:48
I always told him. I said I'm not sure I can help you. I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that something is going to be fixed. But I want you to know that I will listen to you and that others will listen to you.

0:34:02
And usually, that's enough to give him peace.

2 - 0:34:09
And that's likely a product out of the fact from the fact that they knew of you and trusted you. You feel, yeah, I think that was the key to trust was that they thought that I would not. Through I do know that you're you had an interest in advocacy for innovation. Your connection with kW in the Community, Tech community, and so on. Yeah, I guess I'm talking to people who are maybe actually going to journalism school. You know, be a Carlton or Western or Ryerson or whatever.

0:34:37
Hearing that, they're probably not as many jobs in journalism, but the communication might be, you know, an outcome for them. What do you say to people like that who are wanting to do this? Not sure if they can maybe have to do on the side. What's what's the what's the message that you give them now?

3 - 0:35:01
Well, I'm honest with him and they say like it's really hard. I mean when I was fortunate I came through journalism when it was a profession where you, you know you might even have benefits. Although you know the last 20 years of my profession, I didn't have any benefits, but it was. It was possible to have a job and. Supportive family. Mostly there were times I had two jobs because journalism didn't pay enough.

0:35:20
Um, but you have to think of it as a trade. I tell them and that you know if you are curious if you're passionate and if you have enough good tools. If you learn to write. And if you travel in your life so you have things to say, you'll be fine. You just have to be willing to admit that you know you might not work for global Mail.

0:35:44
You might not be on CBC's national, you might not. You might be somebody who - like my son - who works in advertising in Australia but who tells beautiful stories about you. Know, Aboriginal engagement for airlines. You know there's it there. Yeah, there are a lot of new kinds of jobs.

0:36:06
I was talking about this content thing that has started to grow with brands. There's a lot of good work coming that way. And it's not. Pure advertising is not pure public relations, it's authentic storytelling. Honest, emotional, visual storytelling that brands want people to feel good when they think about them.

0:36:24
And so there's stuff to be done. Public relations, I think you know, I don't know. I don't. Honestly, I don't know a whole lot about what kind of training people are getting. I'm always astounded that there are so many people that have focused on press releases because I can tell you is somebody from the inside. Nobody has time to read them. You know, and for heaven sakes, don't fax them because faxes were pulled out in newsrooms 25 years ago, and I'd be, I'm astounded how many people fax out press releases still. So don't bother. You know it's good. For the record, you can, you know if you need someone wants to refer to it in Google it later, it's for that. But if you think any reporters going to press release and run off to interview, not usually. You have to work harder at it and you have to.

0:37:12
You have to develop relationships yourself with people. And again you have to. You have to be trustworthy and you have to be honest. And then you have to project that. And if you are successful at that,

2 - 0:37:32
then you'll be able to tell stories in many different places. And I probably go for both sides as I like to say of the media microphone and if we were all going down that Rd a little bit more consistently, we'd probably have a little bit better understanding of the world around us. And so true. Kevin, I really really appreciate you taking the time to you had joined the podcast. You know, talking about authenticity and being genuine. You don't know that I know what a great guy you are, but you know, we certainly kind of cross pass.

0:38:02
I've watched your career really closely and really admired it. You know all that you've done, expanded the decisions that you made and I think you know Canadians are really proud to know that you are one of the guys that were on the front row of, you know, making newsreel for people in the last 30 years. And you know, on behalf of them, I want to thank you. And I know that your humanity shines through not just in the work you've done, but certainly through the. The time in the insights that you offered us here today.

0:38:29
So thanks again. I know you're retired, but I hope you'll keep finding ways to tell stories and keeping people honest in the way that they tell stories. And yeah, we look forward to seeing maybe a little bit more out of you, even if you're not, you know, punching the Clock from 9 to 5.

3 - 0:38:49
Alright listen, that's very kind and you're very generous.

2 - 0:38:52
Thank you alright. Kevin Newman here on Speaking of media.

1 - 0:38:57
And just as Kevin said that he always appreciated the opportunity to speak to people he admired or was curious about, it was certainly the same for me during this episode with him, I was struck by the context Kevin offered on the rise of social media and how that relates to the politically charged, well-financed news networks in EU and how that level of editorial bias is not yet come to Canada. Thankfully, I appreciated hearing that Kevin felt that authenticity and trust need to be so central to your ongoing communications. And the degree to which not showing up or being inauthentic can actually damage your brand. While most of us are not routinely approached by network-level news outlets and tough well-prepared news, people like Kevin Newman, it is important to conduct yourself as if that is the case on a day-to-day basis, so that when you do find yourself in a bright public spotlight, you show up with confidence and competence to face media scrutiny. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed P sing it together.

0:39:52
I hope you keep bringing you the best in the business from both sides of the media microphone. Who will help you to better develop and deliver your messages and stories? For now, thanks for connecting. Speaking of Media is available on all podcast platforms, including Google and Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and TuneIn Radio, to name a few. I hope you will listen, like, and subscribe to the cast as this will help us expand the show's reach and the quality of its content.

0:40:15
Also, you can simply ask your smart device for Speaking of media by name. Please consider joining our Speaking of media communicators discussion group on Facebook. You'll also find us on Instagram, LinkedIn. And on Twitter @MediaSpeaking - I'm Keith Marnoch. Through other episodes. I look forward to our next time together when we will be Speaking of Media.