1 - 0:00:00
I 4 hours the magic doesn't happen when you turn on the mic. The magic happens before you turn on the mic. You know the questions. I know I'm going to ask I I try to make sure I have three good questions because I know from the answers I'll get three more questions. The magic of radio.
2 - 0:00:17
Do you know how to make the magic work for you and your organization? Thoma Khan was a radio call in talk show host from Southern Ontario and our guest, as he offers a ton of valuable insights and stories from his almost. 20 years on the air on this episode of Speaking of Media, the podcast where communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling. I'm Keith Marnoch, former journalist turned corporate communicator and as a communicator, or someone who speaks on behalf of your organization, I invite you to join me for each of our episodes to learn from industry experts from both sides of the media microphone about effective ways to share your stories and messages, and also perhaps as importantly. How to avoid getting caught in a negative media storm. On this episode, we will explore what communicators need to know and understand about the process and production of the calling talk show.
0:01:04
Tom McConnell got into broadcasting through his love and commitment to sports, a former National Football champion with the Western Mustangs University football team. Tom took early advantage of opportunities that came his way and made the most of them to get to where he is today. Tom shares a number of entertaining stories and some thoughtful need to knows. The tall communicators and potential guests will find valuable when we spoke recently via Zoom. And so it's my pleasure to welcome to the Speaking of Media podcast,
1 - 0:01:43
Mr Tom McConnell Tom. Welcome to the show. Oh thanks Keith. It is great to see you this new technology these new platforms, our ability to connect tell us a little bit Tom about how you got into talk radio a little bit about how you kind of got into the media world. I am probably the exception that proves the rule. I didn't go to broadcast school. I didn't go to journalism school I I don't have any sort of background in that which will prove that how lucky I actually was, that everyone that I interview and then people that I look to hire all have to have a broadcasting background and I just got lucky.
0:02:14
So after I was done playing, I played football at Western and after I was done I was asked by. Ch RW On-campus to be like a sports guy but just color commentary Terry. So we did football with Greg Brady. You know, currently, longtime sports talk broadcaster and I did. I did basketball, I did hockey, but mostly football. That's that's where his campus radio, right campus, radio, right? And I wasn't a student anymore, right? Just I? And so.
0:02:52
But I was still living in London. And then I moved out to Vancouver, and, you know, took a couple of years of my life trying to find myself. If you will was in sports marketing, did some other things and then I moved back to London and it was about 1999 and Venerable longtime London sportscaster Pete James was looking for a new partner to do Western football. So he heard I was in town and and he said, hey, you want to do side like I'd love to do it. This would be great. That would be fantastic.
0:03:21
This is you're paying me to watch a football game. This is great and after the second game there they approached me and they said you sound pretty good on the radio. Do you want to learn how to be on the radio? And so I started out and I did voluntary work which is illegal. Now we cannot volunteer unless you are an intern at an accredited media institution.
0:03:42
Your Ryerson's, your Fanshawe's. You can't do that anymore. They don't allow it. And then I was lucky I got to work with Mike Stubbs. So I became Mike Stubbs producer, who you know had a similar start to me but a lot more experience doing.
0:03:59
He did a lot of the Mustang Sports action and then he was hired one week. I believe in the fan shot to be the Knights broadcaster and they were like listen will teach. You will teach you how to be a Reporter no problem. So I was Stubbs producer and that was great because he was so gracious with his time. And we developed a partnership and we had a great rapport, and from there I just kind of became the fill-in guy for hosts who were leaving an.
0:04:29
Then after three years at CJBK, I got a job offer in Saint Catherines same company, a different station that was it. And that was 18 years ago. I kind of backed my way in, but once I was there just in anything they asked and then just really immersed myself into how to put a show together being on the air, what the audience wants like it was a real learning process. But it was fantastic and you know, in in in those days at sea JBC, where we had Steve Garrison was the morning guy and Jim Chapman was the mid-morning guy. There was no shortage of opinions, but also no shortage of mentors.
3 - 0:05:11
Sounds like for you. It wasn't necessarily a lifelong ambition from, you know, being a little kid,
1 - 0:05:16
it just made a lot of sense for you. Is that? No, I think it was. I was just reluctant. I didn't want to go back to school and they knew I had an affinity to speak. I've always been a pretty good public speaker.
0:05:26
I'm a pretty good storyteller. So they thought you should go into broadcasting, and I resisted, and I resisted and resisted. And then finally, when you know when this opportunity presented itself on the plate, I took it. Fascinating that you say that in volunteering is no longer a thing,
3 - 0:05:44
so episode one of this podcast goes through my volunteering days before I got into any kind of media as well. And so yeah, it's a different world out there, but by the same token, everybody now has the, you know, look at. Look at me at least everybody's got the means of production. Now there's a billion new to produce. To tell stories and people are looking to do that, and it probably allows a lot more people to access the waves,
1 - 0:06:08
right? The airwaves and being online when I started access with so limited what you had the local cable channel that was it and now anyone can go and do this which means it is so much more competitive. But it makes our industry better when you look at the you know, the preponderance of podcasts and people who are able to connect with a very. They're not broadcasting their narrow casting their finding a little niche, and they're getting that audience well again. So our audience here on Speaking of media,
3 - 0:06:39
are communicators for the most part, people who are on this side of the media microphone and the people that we try to bring into the show are people who are either media types or people who've been on both sides of the media microphone, and that's hopefully what the value is for people who are coming and listening to this show, which we do appreciate. So we're talking Tom McConnell radio talk show host, so Tom, what do people not really understand about?
1 - 0:07:02
Talk shows like oh, gosh, one, I don't get talking points from our corporate overlords. That is one thing and then two I start every day with a blank sheet and every day I have to fill 4 hours of talk which at this point after 20 years I can do it. But I want to make sure the information and I want to make sure the content is as fresh and as topical as possible. Who in your mind you feel you're talking to?
3 - 0:07:33
Do you actually think about sort of the type of person that you're talking to,
1 - 0:07:38
or are you really trying to be quite broad with your audience? I really don't know. I don't have someone in my mind I'm talking to my producer. I'm just trying to make him laugh or make him think or that's it, right? I'm just trying to connect with one person, so I'm just trying to have a connection in a conversation with him, and then I think if that is a good conversation, people will be interested. What is your process?
3 - 0:08:01
You're obviously trying to be somewhat topical for the news of the day,
1 - 0:08:05
or not necessarily. Yeah no. I'm trying to be as topical as possible so I am going to go through a process of scouring media sources and seeing what is new, what, what has happened in the last 24 or 48 hours? What do I think people want to talk about as well? Where can I get some reaction? Where can I lend? A voice and you talked about being ready for any argument or or being prepared for any argument.
0:08:29
The way to be prepared for any argument is to make sure you know which arguments you can be prepared for and that is. Don't bring everything up. Don't put everything on the table. I'm not going to have an argument on something I'm not going to bring a topic that an I'm not interested in or BII. Think it's like I don't know anything about.
0:08:52
Like when I put myself I'm going to try to learn as much as I can about something I certainly don't know. You know, I'll put it out there. I don't know a lot, but I know a little about a lot. Curiosity has gotten me a long way just trying to find out. OK, what's going on here?
0:09:10
What is happening? Why has this decision been made? Why is this course of action been taken? Why do people feel this way? I could do a show every day on healthcare.
0:09:19
In Ontario it would get a little repetitive, but what's my jumping off point? Do I just become a bitch session for listeners? Let me tell you my problem. With health care in Ontario, there has to be something specific talk radio is based on. Conflict to some degree, but conflict doesn't necessarily mean anger, and that's one of the things about talk radio that people think it's about anger and pounding the dashboard.
0:09:40
And maybe there are some personalities or presenters who are perpetually angry, but I can't be. I'm not an angry person like that's just not my personality. And to thine own self be true, right? I can't. I'm not playing a character.
0:09:57
This is, I mean you and I have known each other for a long time. Who I play on the air is about 98% of me. Sometimes there, maybe. You know, for dramatic purposes and exaggeration, or that's the art. So I try to find topics that naturally tap into my emotions and the best you know my best attribute, I think, but it's authenticity, right? That I can't. I can't take the time to make up opinions or make up things 'cause I couldn't keep track of them.
0:10:19
Keith, like it was like, how did I feel about that yesterday? I I can't do that. I just might as well be authentic. And then all the arguments will you know? Or on my viewpoints and all my thoughts will be consistent and acknowledged at the same time.
0:10:36
Unlike politicians, I have the right and you have the right. We all have the right to change your mind when given new opinions and new information, and it's not fatal, and I think that just makes us authentic as presenters.
3 - 0:10:54
I know his communicators were trying to make the people who are representing our organisations one of the goals we feel currently should be more transparency, more authenticity. So if that's sort of a shared goal or something that both. Sides of the microphone can get value out of. I think that you know, I think that's good. That's good value for the people who are listening as well.
0:11:11
So many communicators now have lots of channels to talk to audiences, but they are closed audiences. So I'm thinking of social media and so on where you can speak to, you know your base. For example, you know, like your boss talks to particular people and he doesn't really care about what else is going on. But I've always felt that the media really does provide that third-party critique, and in some cases, validation or. The kind of credit you can give yourself.
0:11:39
How do you see the media when you know that there's so many other channels that people can access out? There? Has that rule changed in your mind?
1 - 0:11:50
Overtime as as as media has expanded and. Oh, that's an interesting question, so I believe for elected officials. I guess fellow elected officials, especially if you were in an opposition party. Your role is to question the party. Your role is to do the job of asking difficult questions, but sometimes people don't hear that right word. The medium with which people hear those difficult questions.
0:12:12
The I'll use the Premier makes a statement OK, in the Premier has a policy so it is up to Andrea Horvath and the NDP. And it's right in their name to oppose as the official opposition to challenge that to always strive for better. There is no perfect policy that has been introduced yet by any level of government, so the opposition is going to try to say, hey, what's this? What's this? But remember, the opposition is also there to acquire and acquire power in the next election.
0:12:40
They have a vested interest in making you know the government look bad, but also a responsibility to the people to bring forward better. Policies, so as a media were trying to examine both what the government is said and what the opposition is said, and sometimes outside voices and what they say. And really I'm responsible to my audience. I am a conduit. I'm a voice, my audience of thousands of people.
0:13:11
They do not get the luxury or the privilege of talking to these people right and asking them directly, why did you do this? Have you considered X instead of Y? So we also have a responsibility as much as the opposition as a responsibility, because I often think we have a bigger audience than the opposition that the opposition to your point is talking to their bubble. But our job is to really broaden that and sometimes to make politicians accountable. And especially at that local level.
0:13:43
Because there's, oh there's, there's a limit to the reach of government. I know from my past experience that some of the ways that you put your show together is to find experts.
3 - 0:13:55
And to find people who talk about particular subject matter, could you talk a little bit about how you go about that? Is it proactive or can people come to you with regards to trying to sell a cell, a voice? If they're trying to promote something?
1 - 0:14:10
Yeah, absolutely right. I have 4 hours. The magic doesn't happen when you turn on the mic. The magic happens before you turn on the mic. You know the questions. I know I'm going to ask I. I try to make sure I have three good questions because I know from the answers I'll get three more questions. That that'll ask. So when we talk about situations and you've been in this, representing an institution that there are plenty of emails I get in a day saying, hey, we have this person available if it is topical.
0:14:37
If I believe the audience will connect with it. If I'm interested in it, that's the starting position. It's like, OK, no problem, because not everything right. Not everything is in the news. It can't be in the news until we put it in the news.
0:14:53
And so oftentimes things that are, you know, in the news. Start with the press release. Start with the media release and it's just like, hey, new research from this institution. Or we're making a change at this, you know for this policy, but as an institution, make sure your topical and the other thing is, and I can't stress this enough. Make sure your people are available.
0:15:16
It's amazing that people who sent out media releases have not confirmed with the people they're talking about that they're available, but not available today. Why did you send it out today then? How are they not available then? Delay it by a day or something really important that my audience hears this.
3 - 0:15:36
It's amazing. Equally on this side of the microphone for me to hear and understand that people go through that. It's it's nice to have good guests and it's good to be proactive, but I always feel like you know the point where there's and you're representing an organization or a company where you're trying to push a particular. Story or theme, perhaps the greatest success is when you call me as opposed to when I call you absolutely. And having having a the content that you're looking for through the people. In your particular case. But yes, being just properly organized and obvious in terms of what you have to offer and making it available for that to happen and it's amazing to me that people don't really think these things through.
0:16:16
But again, I think that being professional, I think communication people who represent an organization who can be professional. And who are dealing with particular media on a regular basis is that you do your best. You go the extra mile. You have to understand that today might not be the win, but in the long term you're going to probably average out to be better off by having shown up been professional and do what you can when you can.
1 - 0:16:45
In the long run that really pays off more than landing a particular guest on a particular day. Can I ask from this side that we get media releases all the time rather from institutions or organizations an alot from PR firms have a client with the product? For instance. Yes, do you take it personally when we don't respond? Is that not just part of the deal that if I'm interested I'll respond and if I'm not interested I'll just it's a waste of everyone's time for me to say no. Thank you. Yeah is that is that not accepted.
0:17:13
It's totally accepted. Yeah OK, good hard, they don't want you to think that that's accepted.
3 - 0:17:21
You want to keep the pressure on the person but. As much as everything else is evolved through technology and so on, the relationships have been the same. Be professional offer value. I think on both sides,
1 - 0:17:34
and then that's when it works the best. I think when you when you represent especially less of a commercial client which you know depending on the product, if it's new, it's innovative. But at or if there's a story they want to tell, right? Think of, think of bad situations where it's like Toyota needs to get ahead or Honda. Need to get ahead of the of the bad mats. And it's like, yeah, no problem.
0:17:58
We will get our person out there. We will tell her side of the story. What you're hearing is not what we believe is happening right? We want to tell that story as well, but if you develop that relationship. So if you're if again for institutions you represented, or for instance a city or municipality.
0:18:15
If you very if you do that, there are times when we can turn it around very, very quickly that I will have a whole Ann. I will contact someone and some news is just broken. Can we speak to the mayor? Can I speak to the CEO today? I have this ability because our goal is also speed.
0:18:32
We want to be at at the edge of the curve and by developing that relationship and by having trust, we're not going to work. We were not. I'm not interested in gotcha journalism, right? I'm interested in. Developing a relationship to make sure the right story gets out that what you were saying and we're going to push back and again that's part of my job. You should not be surprised by any question I asked, right? Because you face it in Council, you face it with the opposition.
0:19:01
You'll face it with the public. Most people are good with that and I'm not going to be like haha. I knew it right so? But if you develop that relationship, we can speed up the process in times of need. Politics is a little bit of a different animal because these guys are.
3 - 0:19:18
Giving and taking every day. That's really the basis of their business, right? Whereas people who are maybe not in the media as much, whether they're being critiqued or being questioned, or whether they're trying to promote it tends to be something that's sort of out of the norm or out of their comfort level. And again, I work for lots of different places. Very capable senior people who have this angst, or this hesitation around media, and having communication people who are well prepared not only to sell the story, but to put them in a good place to be able to be interviewed. You know something that's really,
1 - 0:19:52
really important. I was going to say the one lesson I learned from a local hockey coach and I asked him innocently, hey, do you mind like taking questions from the audience? And he looked at me and he said. Sure, do you think there's someone out there knows more about hockey than me? It's a great and I was like this guy. Very successful. Oh HL coach, and like you're right. And so for most people in an area of expertise.
0:20:10
Who's going to know more than them, right? Who's going to the whole state? They're going to know the whole story. That and the I was like, you're right. OK, we'll take calls.
3 - 0:20:26
OK, well one of my three questions is you get somebody that you want to have on on the air.
1 - 0:20:31
What makes a good guest from your perspective? Expensive, but not super long answers. So more than a yes or no. There should be an understanding I am not going to send you the questions because you're not going to send me the answers, are you? I will tell you what we're talking about that is laid out, but that's rule #1, so we want to talk to the Minister about this right? Or the minister wants to come on the program and talk about this. OK, no problem. We will talk about that.
0:20:59
I am not going to delve too much into extraneous stuff. But don't be surprised if something in the news in the last few days is going to come up. When it's specifically about your organization or institution, so a researcher comes on to tell me about his latest project, and there's a scandal at the school. I'm not going to research about, unless, but I may ask in a general term, and sometimes I start my interviews off. I often have a theme that runs through a show.
0:21:33
I may ask you a silly question off the start that is unrelated to the topic at hand. Do not be afraid of it. Be comfortable, but a little more than a yes or no answer. That's that's all we're looking for, because if the interview I have 10 minutes on the Clock and you give it all to me in 2 minutes. I've done the trick of doing the interview again, but now I'm only up to four minutes rate.
0:21:57
Don't be afraid to speak. Don't be afraid to be expensive,
3 - 0:22:03
but also don't take 10 minutes and not get to the point either. Be knowledgeable of the Clock. What I would tell people in most cases is that you are looking for one. One thought pre answer and that you allow a radio host to forward the. Conversation according to their timing because timing is specially in live radio, not so much for news obviously, but in live radio. The first thing I always tell the person is how much time that they're expected to speak for or how much time there is, and then half that time won't be them talking.
0:22:29
And So what do you actually want to be telling or what do you want to be delivering as a message, but at the same time you can't do it all in one in one shot? You've got to let them. You've gotta let the person or the host advance the conversation.
1 - 0:22:45
Is that reasonable? Yeah, that sounds great. And that goes back to. I usually have three questions ready and then my other three questions are going to be based upon your answers, right? So expand on that point or let me go back to what you just said. Why is that critical? Or oh that's interesting?
0:22:59
Is this shown elsewhere in your work? Or where else can we see an example of this? These are typical answers that explain. These are typical questions that expand on your answers that you should be ready for.
3 - 0:23:15
What I also tell them is most talk radio has to have an element of entertainment. Yes, you know information, yes, but this is not a job interview, it's an interview to entertain and inform people.
1 - 0:23:28
And sometimes that's a difficult step for people to sort of wrap their heads around. One of the things that I think has let me stay in this industry is not only a sense of curiosity, but a sense of enthusiasm. If I'm bored, then the audience will be bored, O. As I mean it's not as a subject or or, you know, as the guest, don't don't feel over the moon that we asked you to be there, but at least show some enthusiasm. At least show some. Yeah, you don't have to be so effusive in your praise. Not at all, but just like oh thanks.
0:23:59
Very much appreciate being here right. Not everyone is, you know, dynamic. And over the top and not everyone is. Don't be a circus clown about it, but at the same time you know we have an audience to entertain. An essentially I would say that you're a storyteller.
3 - 0:24:17
That's what I tried to again in Part 2 communicators that whether you're doing a press release, whether it's an email, whether it's you know, speaking on the phone, nice to have a beginning, middle, and an end is storytelling.
1 - 0:24:32
I guess uppermost in your mind when you're trying to topmost topmost. In my mind, it's a narrative, and so when I get a press release or a media release, I need part of the narrative. Why is this important? What why should I put this on the air today or tomorrow? What is what is critical about this and lots of times they're pretty good. That first sentence has to grab me, right? Like a novel. This first sentence has to interest me, but we're dealing with an email here.
0:25:01
There's 2-3 paragraphs tell me why the audience should be interested in it, and there's a couple of things right. The audience. Universally there are themes such as money, family health, safety, communities, the other one. There's really about five things that an audience really connects to. So tell me on one of those why we're connecting 'cause we're trying to sell a narrative on are exactly what you said.
0:25:21
It's all about the narrative we were talking about. A story here. Yeah, would it be weird to say that talk radio,
3 - 0:25:36
especially when it comes to when you're taking Collins, which I, you know, I Marvel at, and your ability to manage that, is it really based on individual ego and maybe not being heard so well at work, you know. And finding an outlet for people you know it's like. Nobody else is going to listen to me, but if I call, they're going to have to at least screen my calls to talk to someone.
1 - 0:25:59
Is that who? Who is it that's calling into these shows I this this is a good. This is a really good question. I'm glad it took to the end of this podcast for you to ask this really, really good at it and threw it at the front. I'm just kidding. The fear of the talk show host is the fear of the teacher, and the fear is when someone says you don't know what you're talking about. That's the fear. The teacher, right? You're at the front of the classroom and Someone Like You don't know what you're talking about.
0:26:22
Why am I listening to you in the authoritative position? And so as a talk show host, the fear is you don't know what you're talking about. That's also the fear of the caller. That is like and so gently we tried to be. I disagree with that. I don't think that is completely accurate, and I don't believe that that.
0:26:42
Is true in fact, so we try, but people want to have their voice heard right? And maybe now through social media, you're having your voice heard on the air to an audience of unknown in social media. It's fairly well known you can control who hears you. You can block, you can unfriend you, can make sure and you get the what you're hearing is also tailor made for what you want to do right. We're confirming our own biases often in social media.
0:27:10
That we tune into feeds and people who reaffirm our our core beliefs. And when you listen to someone like me or anyone else on talk radio, the risk is I am going to go against everything you think is true or I'm going to flatly refuse to believe what you believe and that's OK. And so through conflict we often get entertainment, but we get a better idea of what's happening. What's the true story here? What's really going on so the people who call in it is interesting and I borrow this philosophy from.
0:27:39
Paul Finebaum, who you may recognize is ESPN and he does this program that was all about college football for three hours a day. It was listened to by 25% of the males in Alabama, which goes to show maybe not a lots happening in Alabama, but Finebaum had this program and eventually it went from one station to regional throughout the southeast. Then throughout the United States and they talk about one thing, college football and and the role of the Colorado is an I try to do this as well. I try to balance my voice. With expert voices with the colors and so about a 1/3 split we find is pretty successful and that's what Finebaum does because the callers are playing a role they don't know. They're playing a role, and maybe I shouldn't spill this secret.
0:28:28
The callers are playing a role in a play, their characters. They add flavor, they add, you know, a little bit. I'm the main flavor. The experts change in terms of what they bring to the table and who they are, but the callers bring their own flavor there. A little bit of the hot sauce.
0:28:46
There bringing their own dynamic and and for a lot of people they want to be heard back to your point. Maybe they just want to be heard and I have regular callers and you know what, they just want their opinion known. That's that's all they wanted.
3 - 0:29:01
The end of the day.
1 - 0:29:02
The talk show equation of the You gotta try to fill space so let's see what comes our way. But be prepared for whatever that pots on well, but you also more callers doesn't make better radio. Better callers makes better radio, but you have to be able to say no. And that that is not adding to the program that's subtracting from the program. That's that's why I was like, well, who peppered this? Wow, that was terrible. And people like boy that was awful.
0:29:25
That was, uh, at the end of the day, really, you know what? We just want to engage, inform and entertain. That's it. And so for experts. That's the engage and inform part.
0:29:34
Don't worry bout I know. Be a little entertaining. I'm the entertaining. The colors are the entertaining your inform your inform and engage the audience of what's important for that day.
3 - 0:29:48
Well, Tom, I want to thank you for being on the show today and bringing the spice and the enthusiasm that I appreciate on regular basis. Listening to your show and I really do find it entertaining. But as a communicator I'm always listening to how did he put that together? Why did you do that? Why is this person on? Why did he say that?
0:30:06
And I think we've had some insights today on what you're thinking. In your mindset is, and I think that that's helpful for anybody who's trying to access the ability to get onto radio shows like you. You like your own or other ones and it's just great value and I really do appreciate you taking the time to to share insights with us. I can think of more than three questions I had for you today, even though we kind of covered the ones I had. So maybe in the future you might.
1 - 0:30:35
You might spare some more time and come back on the show. If listen, I am available on 24 hours notice and it is pleasure just to be considered for this program. So thank you very much. The world of a radio calling talk show host is obviously fascinating.
2 - 0:30:49
I'm hoping that after listening to this conversation, you have a better idea of how to connect with broadcast personalities to be featured on their shows. Understanding what they're trying to accomplish with their guests and how they intend to approach interviews is simply crucial. If you are going to benefit from a radio interview, I hope you are now better equipped to meet that challenge. After listening to Tom in this episode. And even though I have worked with Tom in setting up guests for his shows previously, I did hear some real Nuggets today that I believe you can put to use as well.
0:31:18
Like Tom says, he works on the one Third Rule, 1/3 him, 1/3 guests that communicators like you can promote and 1/3 the secret sauce, AKA Live callers, and that can add up to be very entertaining. Radio knowing how you or someone you support fits into that equation will make you more effective in landing opportunities to get your messages delivered through spokespeople or experts. And whether you're communicating via email over the phone, or more broadly through a release to actually get a story set up, make sure you understand its newsworthiness and be prepared to act on it immediately if you're quoting or promoting someone from your organization, make sure you can connect that person with the media outlet. Otherwise, just don't bother. We hope to keep bringing you the best in the business from both sides of the media microphone.
0:32:04
Who will help you better develop and deliver your messages and stories. For now, thanks for connecting. Speaking of Media is available on all podcast platforms including Amazon Music, Google and Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher and TuneIn Radio, to name a few. And now on YouTube, just search for Speaking of media to see our episodes, no matter the platform. I hope you will listen like, comment and subscribe to the cast.
0:32:35
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I'm Keith Maroccan through other episodes. I look forward to our next time together when we will be Speaking of media.