Politics & The Pandemic: How Vassy Kapelos Covers the Ottawa Bubble

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Transcript

39 min read (7621 Words)

1 - 0:00:00
That's what drives my questions, right? Like what matters in this to Canadians? How is this relevant to their lives? How can I make it more relevant? How can I make it more digestible?

0:00:08
I think it's relevant. I think it's important. How do I impart that on people who maybe aren't sitting at home consume with all of this like I am, which is the majority of people who are who are tuning in tracking the pulse of Canadian politics on a daily basis while keeping both elected representatives and government officials

3 - 0:00:29
accountable? Requires a passion and dedication that few can claim to possess or have the ability to maintain. Vassy Kapelos began her journalism career with global television in Saskatchewan and Alberta collecting and Edward R. Murrow Award for Best new series before transferring back to Ottawa where she reported and later became the Networks Bureau chief, as well as the eventual successor to Tom Clark as host of the West Block. GlobalX’s weekly political affairs show in early 2018, she moved on to CBC TV. To host arguably Canada's most influential political affairs show power and politics on this episode of behind the scenes view of what it takes to produce a daily national current affairs show with someone who is as synonymous with the Canadian political spotlight as many of her guests. How fast she manages to keep Canadians updated. An informed with the business of government and the power of politics on Speaking of media, the podcast where communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling.

0:01:25
The job is really more of a lifestyle with very little time away from the day-to-day grind of the Canadian agenda, plus breaking news to cover out of Parliament Hill at any hour of the day. There is little time to truly catch your breath, throw in a public dose of a global pandemic and a personal journey to have a family, and you can only be impressed by what it takes for Vassy Kapelos to keep tabs on the Ottawa bubble without actually getting lost in it.

2 - 0:01:58
We spoke to Vassy from her home near Ottawa via Zoom and so it's my great pleasure to welcome Vassy Kapelos from CBCS. Power and politics to the Speaking of Media podcast. Vassy thanks so much for joining us and being on show. Thanks so much for having me my listeners. Viewers will be well acquainted with your current position and they may or may not know how you got there, but you know you were in news West. Basically Saskatchewan and Alberta and then you work your way back to Ottawa and grabbed one of the Premier talk shows on the Hill then moving over to CBC's Power and politics. When it comes to journalism,

1 - 0:02:37
was the primary passion for you always politics? Yes, 100%. I think it actually journalism followed from my interest in politics. I often make a joke that I come by it naturally or genetically because my parents met at a political convention in Ontario years and years ago and I grew up where in a house that was hyper interested in in politics all the time and in a very loud Greek and German way. And so I sort of always thought I would pursue. I first thought maybe law or something to do with politics, but out of that interest then sort of came in interested in journalism as well.

0:03:09
So they go hand in hand for me just took awhile to be able to do political journalism. And as rough and tumble as politics can be,

2 - 0:03:22
I always feel like when I'm watching you in your current role, that you. But there's a basis of respect, that there's often. It almost seems like a neighborly kind of like you know the people. I mean, you've got people who are coming on regularly and at high levels,

1 - 0:03:39
but you know, how do you develop those relationships and how do you balance being friendly and challenging at the same time? Thanks very much for that for the compliment. I take it as one an for the question. I think for me it's been kind of like a process. As I become more comfortable in myself and sort of my job and more confident in in that respect, I just became more of myself who I actually am off camera on camera and it was less about kind of playing a part of a journalist and more about just wanting to be myself. I think it's important that, especially when I'm conducting interviews with politicians, the questions are. I'm all about accountability and they are tough and I think politicians know what they're getting into, but I'm not a disrespectful person off screen, so I don't know why I would be one on screen.

0:04:29
I'm not. Hyper aggressive off screen either I'm not. I would not yell or scream or hope for click bait or any of those things in my real life so I just sort of gave up even trying to want to do that on screen and as I did I feel as though I started to enjoy my job a lot more. And I, I think I sort of thing in the long term, very much now, right? I'm not really interested in just.

0:04:55
Getting a great one. Great interview or one great moment. I want to be around 20 years from now doing something similar and so I think just like the key is being yourself and I don't think it's I don't think it's impossible to be tough on people or are hard on them, or demand answers from them while also being played. I just don't think that's it. It doesn't have to be a juxtaposition and so that's kind of how I approach everything now.

0:05:20
And I'm glad I do because I sleep a lot better at night. And so, beyond sort of the demanding accountability questions.

2 - 0:05:34
Do you see as part of your role at all, to give Canadians a bit of a window on the you know, somewhat insular closed community that is Parliament Hill that is Ottawa generally speaking.

1 - 0:05:45
Do you have that in the back of your mind over when you're asking or what are you thinking about when you get information? Yeah, yeah, you hit the nail on the head, I think. In general, I'm trying as much as possible to not be insular and to break through some of that. You know, as they call it the bubble of Ottawa, right? I've never actually felt a part of the bubble. It's kind of weird cause I worked.

0:06:10
And last time I'm not from Ottawa, I always felt a bit of an outsider, even when I was working at Global Asset Reporter on the Hill, and so I don't kind of feel as though I'm in it and I'm a part of this and maybe somebody can get a window in it. I feel like I am on the outside asking those questions, and I'm certainly though I'm very immersed in it, which can sometimes be to the detriment of myself and the audience because I don't want to be asking, you know, really granular questions that aren't relevant to people who are watching. Or aren't relevant to people who may at some point just TuneIn but not be immersed in it. I really do try as I approach every interview to think like what are people at home interested in? Why would this matter to them?

0:06:56
And even in my accountability interviews, that's what drives my questions, right? Like what matters in this to Canadians? How is this relevant to their lives? How can I make it more relevant? How can I make it more digestible?

0:07:09
I think it's relevant. I think it's important. How do I impart that on people? Maybe aren't sitting at home consume with all of this like I am, which is the majority of people who are who are tuning in. So, it's a big challenge.

0:07:24
I will say though, like it's not. It's not easy because there is a certain segment of the population who's really interested in politics. And they're interested in watching and they want to know the back and forth and all this stuff. But there's a lot of people who I think have somewhat of an interest but don't want to watch something and feel left out, or that they're not a part of it. So, trying to balance those two groups of people and keep trying to expand my audience is like a constant challenge that I'm dealing with.

2 - 0:07:55
I know that my audience will be curious and I think that most of them will know if they follow you on social media or otherwise. That on top of your busy schedule, you're also on the verge of having a child boggles my mind because I can only imagine how busy you are with the show itself, but I know that my audience would be really, really interested in your typical day. What's how do you piece it together? How do you balance? You know mostly from the show's perspective, but obviously you can't ignore all the other things you got to balance what's a typical day?

1 - 0:08:26
Like for Vassy? Well, it's changed a lot. I've had a really. I'll be transparent. I've had a really difficult pregnancy I've had. I have hyperemesis gravidarum, which means I'm I was, I've been a bit better in the past month, but I've been pretty violently ill since the beginning, so that has dramatically changed my work day because I used to go in probably between 8:30 and 9:30 in the morning and be there until 8:30 at night. I can't. I physically can't do that anymore.

0:08:55
So I start on line quite early. I mean it start the day starts at about for me. I mean I'm still in early riser, I surface. I sort of survey all the news. That's out there. Everything I can get my hands on and I start to formulate in my mind what I think the priorities for our show that they should be and then reduce that to a list of things that we call it a chase list.

0:09:17
And so I, I converse at that point, probably between 7:00 and 8:00 in the morning with our senior producers who will assign that Chase. And sort of implement it and we have three hours of show now, so in it sounds weird, but I'll we block it out into about five to six blocks an hour and we call them blocks within the lineup. So, on any given day, we're trying to fill about conflicts around 15 segments, but unless I start with that vision, it can all of a sudden become 15 interviews on 15 completely different subjects, and I'm not doing a good job at that. The audience isn't served by that, so I start really early on that process. And then from there the ball goes right, like this person is available this person OK, what's your Plan B? By noon we all meet all the producers, senior and otherwise, and myself, and at that point producers can pitch other ideas that they have.

0:10:11
Like, maybe something has developed because of our press conference that Premier Ford held in those in term hours. And so, we or this moment has happened in question. We want to English. Ontario. We want to follow it up.

0:10:28
So then following that pitch meeting I meet again with the senior producers and we come up with our best-case scenario for a lineup. So, here's our what's our lead today. What's our other? What's another big story? How are we going to treat it in a different way here?

0:10:41
What's our power panel going to talk about? What's our primetime panel to talk about? All of that is determined by 12:30. And then I start getting ready. We don't have a car so anything anymore.

0:10:51
So I do that myself and that's a painful process at this point in the game used to be more enjoyable, but it's part of the job as well, right? It sounds stupid, but you have to allow some time for that. And then following that basically from 2:00 o'clock onward 2:00 to 2:30 onward, I have to be prepared to do pre takes. So, we have a 3-hour live window. Our preference is always to do those interviews live, but many times lots of guests for whatever reason and especially ministers and members of the opposition people who we know we need on the show, you can't find an easy substitute for.

0:11:23
They can only do the interview. Let's say it's three o'clock. So, I'm preparing and doing those pre tapes and then preparing for the show itself right up until the time the show goes from 2:30 on and then the show starts at 5:00 o'clock and it goes all the way till 8:00 o'clock. And then the days done. I usually stay for a bit after just to get my head around what I think we need to follow from today's show because I found through experience.

0:11:43
The hardest part is not like just rushing in and forgetting it all and then being like, wait, there's three things that happened today on our show that we would like to do. Like for example this week Romeo Allaire. We interviewed Romeo Allaire about genocide in China and like really powerful interviews like how can I build on that tomorrow and just sort of send those suggestions or get my head around that before I leave for the night. And then I come home and I'm about half an hour away from Ottawa so I'm usually home by 9:00 o'clock. And at this point not before I used to have way more energized to be very energetic percent.

0:12:19
Now I just got. And I pretty much. Something in my face and my wonderful husband is made because he takes care of basically everything now at home and then collapse and then do it all over again. That's it. So, I'm going to say again,

2 - 0:12:38
thanks for taking the time to do this.

1 - 0:12:40
cause that's crazy, but I'm very. I'm very lucky because my well, I because I've been so ill. My employer has been wonderful and I don't work Fridays like I don't do the show Fridays. So, I try to also now put all my other work on it. Yeah, that's great.

2 - 0:12:56
Another element I've got to believe that like 99% of your show is outreach. Trying to find people you want to talk to you, but I'm thinking about people who are trying to access your show and I guess the only people that really comes to mind or sort of pundits. How do you determine is this all prearranged when it comes to you know who represents the parties or who comes on to sort of be your media pundits?

1 - 0:13:18
How do you decide on that and how do you manage that? Well, it's a really, really important part of our show in in the iteration. It exists in right now, there's. To kind of, there's our primetime panel, which, which is a new iteration of that when we expanded this show to three hours, and then we have the power panel, which is predates my time on the show by years and years and years. And it's it is definitely the most known aspect of our show. It is the real audience driver.

0:13:43
It always has been from the time that I arrive like, you'll see ratings go up during it very distinctly. People like it, they like to hate it and they like to like it as far as how the pundits are selected. It's a lot of thought goes into it. The power panel is pretty much 99% regulars, so many of them again predate the time that I was there. Others have come on since there a wide variety of things really go into it.

0:14:06
Some of it is them outreach to us seeing them somewhere else and thinking, oh, that's a smart person or a lot of times since I started, I've been trying very hard to bring in more people who are not necessarily hyper partisans or lobbyists, which is. You know they have a great perspective as well, but people who are ex ministers of ex MP's you know bring some recent decision-making experience to it just to switch it up a little bit and then beyond the individual. It's how do they work in that grouping right? Because so much of some of the power panels that many of the power panels that people really gravitate towards are people who have been together for a little while on TV. Have an excellent report.

0:14:52
Who managed to have good an interesting back and forth with excitement. But it always seems somewhat collegial like it's not hard to watch necessarily. And then how do they all work together and? That's a hard balancing act because some people are more partisan than others, so people are more tide to the party than others. Always, you know, from a personal person.

0:15:14
Preference perspective, I like people who are able to step outside of the partisanship who feel naturally climb that. Whatever, that's there, you know, good for them to align himself with a certain party. And having the past, let's say, but when something is amiss or are able to say that's not good, you know are able to call it out, because I think that really, that authenticity really resonates with the audience and makes the conversation in a whole lot better and resonates with the other panelists as well. And I find if you have one or two people in the panel who are like that over time, the others become a lot more like that too.

2 - 0:15:54
On a previous episode, we spoke with Kevin Newman, and we talked a little bit about how news networks are kind of. Specially in the states gravitated to be more opinion networks and your show is not necessarily, you know, supposed to be devoid of that, but his thought was really that money drives that and that commentary and opinion and so on is really what people are looking for.

1 - 0:16:17
How do you balance that against news of the day? Well, I think I feel extremely lucky in that we have that huge amount of real estate, right? Three hours in the day allows for us to. I think offer a lot of balance. I am not necessarily a. When I host a show news puritan, I think there's a lot of it. When I think of OK, what should we be covering?

0:16:39
What is important? What do Canadians need to know about? Where is the accountability? And then I think there's room also for I would like people to enjoy what they're listening to and feel like. They're part of a conversation in a way and people have opinions I'm not afraid of the fact that people have divergent opinions that there when you when I talk to my family or my friends, we're not just sitting around there saying like what is the top story today?

0:17:01
Right? Like we're fighting over we're having fun but there is a line of delineation between a lot of what you said to the border and how I interpret that. And so, from my perspective. Again, when I think of that lineup that I was mentioning, for example at 5:00 o'clock we have three to four segments prior to getting to do any kind of opinion or commentary, and those are always hard. When I like to call hard news segments, so those are all one-on-one interviews.

0:17:35
That are about the news of the day are about subjects that I feel are relevant and hopefully we are relevant. And then we discuss it in a different way. In those other segments. I think it's I think it's about balance and what I'm very lucky. What I'm what makes me very lucky is that I have the ability within such a huge long show, which is sometimes difficult. But within all that real estate to be able to do both.

2 - 0:18:05
So my communicator audience will be really curious about this, but I think you know when you're in a good interview either for your purposes or the way that someone is representing their take or their position on something.

1 - 0:18:17
What's your experience in terms of the traits or the things that tip you off to know that you're in an interview with somebody who knows what they're doing? That's a good question. I feel like it's different depending on the type of interview so. In my mind, I have a few different types of interest that I do in the show. The first is Accountability II is hard news, but not accountability, and the third is more analysis. And then you've got the talk stuff right, which is the panels, which is a whole different idea, but as far as the injuries themselves go in an accountability interview, it's interesting because I'm not.

0:18:53
I think if I'm doing well or they're doing, I'm not really analyzing that so much. I'm thinking am I getting answers? Is this conversational or is it antagonistic? And it really depends on who the politician is. So, there are some politicians who are like I just don't have the answer to that, but I'll get it for you.

0:19:11
Get the here's what I do know. Bubba, and you're like? OK, that's fine. This is like probably helpful to Canadians. And then there are other interviews where you are flabbergasted at the answers that you get.

0:19:18
Like the answers you're saying, well, what's going to happen tomorrow. And they're saying, did you know that it might rain in 10 weeks, you know? And so that's I don't know if necessary, saying good or bad. But I'm very focused on, you know, that requires a whole different skill set. And that's pretty frequent as well with accountability, but then there are other interviews like I said, which are hard news interviews, so again, I'll use the example of Romeo Allaire like within one answer of that interview I knew.

0:19:45
That would be going long. I knew that he had incredibly. Significant things to say like he didn't his first answer right away. You know, again, it was the subject of genocide in China was that he agreed that it was happening. I mean a man who has seen.

0:20:05
The worst of the world and who witnessed the world stand by? Well, what happened in Rwanda? Thought the same thing was happening now and I knew in that interview because I forgot I was interviewing that it was going to be a good one. Like I, I literally was almost emotional which never happens to me because he was so. You just you put yourself in his shoes and what he's seen and what he's witnessed and then to have to sit there while the same thing could be happening again. Like I don't even, you know. I was just so involved in what he said.

0:20:41
I literally wasn't even thinking that I was conducting an interview. So, for to me, in that vein, that's very much. Then I'm like, oh, this is this is something people will get something from, right? There's like something to be gained for them watching this. And then there are other interviews which are more analysis focused.

0:21:00
Let's say with experts or people in those interviews when I know. My first key is, are they helping me understand because I'm not an expert in a lot of things and this could be anything from like now that it's coded a doctor. Helping me understand how the variance work because I'm overloaded with information like I think so many Canadians are to somebody explaining to me a trade issue that is granular, but I know will impact a huge segment of the economy. So, I want to make sure my audience and I understand it and so in those types of interviews it's like is this person helping you understand and they're not always because it's hard sometimes to communicate when you're such a smart person about a certain subject, so specifically it's hard to break that down for a wider audience and I'm like. Ask the right questions to break it down, and am I asking and those are entries?

0:21:54
Are you really like and I asked you what people at home are thinking because. And it's a lot easier to do it in those type of interviews where I'm actually the person at all going. What are they talking about, right? So that's what I know it's like.

2 - 0:22:09
And on the show here, we don't like to date it too much, but I think it's you know to not talk about covid the pandemic. And what are your thoughts on the way that some politicians have been viewed as benefiting from it? And some of kind of been pushed out of the spotlight. A lot of speculation that those who are incumbent have done better than those who are in opposition. How do you read that?

0:22:31
And I guess my question is when big news happens within sort of an ongoing story, how well our politicians. Being able to emphasize that, or is it just being sort of melded into all one message? That kind of you know, gets kind of monotonous, right?

1 - 0:22:50
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think it depends on the point of the pandemic we're talking about, right? Like I even feel internally the coverage that we did in the first, let's say, four months was very different than the period thereafter, or the period thereafter. Even from my own perspective of interest, write a like. Trying to make it there was this. You know that four months, four-to-six-month period where everything we were talking about was so relevant politically to Canadians own lives, right? Every policy that government was introducing, like the Bell link towards to somebody's life at home was so evident.

0:23:28
And so it like reoriented the way I ask questions or reoriented the show. We stopped doing power panel for a little while because it just didn't feel right to be talking about. Politics of this and who's popular and who isn't. And all that kind of stuff in the middle of a crisis where people really needed news. And I think in those months I think that you know and I can't speak for everyone.

0:23:52
I think we really tried to serve the interests of bikinis. We really tried to do a job that would help them navigate something that was terrible, well ourselves. Trying to be able to do that too, right? But then came this second period where probably throughout the summer right into the fall where the pandemic Queen. Waned bit and it and it became much harder to construct our coverage right because.

0:24:15
I also became sort of like is this monotonous. Is this? You know what you know you had to. What is big news here? And so, since then I really welcome other stories.

0:24:28
I think Canadians have an appetite for other stuff. As weird as that sounds, because I feel like I have an appetite for other stuff. And so, I am pretty selective. I wasn't even anxious to cover, for example, this one-year market because I felt like it's not like an anniversary. It's a terrible event. I understand marking it.

0:24:46
But like we're in that still it's still really tough on people. I don't know if they really want to be reflecting on how bad it was and how bad it's going to be. So, I was really mindful of that and I tried to, you know I didn't. I don't think we like branded it and made it. You know I tried to keep it pretty straightforward.

0:25:04
I still think there are a lot of things that the government is doing at all levels, provincial and federal that are relevant to people's lives. Like I think there are a lot of business owners who still need a lot of help. I think there are a lot of individuals who have lost their jobs. You know, good job news today for sure, but still, who still need help? And there still is a very clear line of accountability to those governments.

0:25:26
Vaccines, all that kind of stuff like people you know. There's still a lot of stuff going on in this pandemic that matters to people, and so it's important that we cover it. I just think that. It's not the first four to six months of the pandemic. There are other things going on as well, and I'm constantly thinking I'm certainly thinking of that balance.

0:25:46
I don't think I necessarily always get the balance right, but I you know, I'm not taking two hours of those out of a 3 hour show of those updates. I'm picking up what I think is really relevant, delivering that news trying to analyze it and highlight what's important for the audience. And then we're moving on.

2 - 0:26:08
I wonder a little bit about you know bit of devil's advocate, but from a journalistic point of view, how fair do you think it is to be applying hindsight journalism to the actions and the recommendations that we've been hearing from both politicians and medical leaders throughout the

1 - 0:26:25
pandemic? I think it's context specific, so I don't think it can be blanket. I don't think you can go well, why didn't you? Why didn't you stop this pandemic early? You know? I mean in that respect, but I have a.

0:26:37
The one benefit of being on TV so much and doing so many of these interviews is I have a pretty good memory Ann and I have a I think I try at least to be very specific in those kinds of questions, so I'll give you an example. Last night I had the Federal Minister, Patty Hajdu on this. And there are. I remember very clearly at the time asking her about border measures and travel. And at this was at the outset of the pandemic and the reason I was asking is because there were many other countries who had done stuff a little bit faster right at that time, like they had, they had moved on borders a little quicker and she was very specific in emphatic in her answers, which is fine, that that was not going to be effective here.

0:27:25
Obviously the tables have turned and the reason I chose to ask about that is not so I, you know it could be like, well, you know, should you have known better I would never take that that perspective. But now the government has introduced measures at the border that are actually themselves controversial for how far they go? Because they're not working very well at it specifically and stay in the hotel quarantine. There seem pretty specific issues there, so I thought it was relevant in that context. And because I remember at the time, there were already challenges to what the government is paying for it.

0:27:58
So it's not like I'm making it. You know, I mean like if for example, nobody was doing anything at the borders and nobody was questioning the government's action at the border at the time, I think it would be unfair of me now a year later to say hey, why don't you know any better? Because I didn't know any better then, right? I didn't know to challenge that at the time. So, if there aren’t even masks like you know it's a bit hard for me now to say.

0:28:21
I didn't know the science behind masks at the time. We listen to doctor various doctors who said, well, it's not a silver bullet, etc. etc. Clearly the evidence changes, so I'm not about to get on my high horse and say to the paddle health insurer. Why didn't you know that right? So, in that respect, I do understand what you're saying. I think that's why context is important.

0:28:43
Being specific is important, and I draw an almost like institutional memory of. How those conversations went in the past and I tried there. I think very hard about being fair. I really do like I'm excited about that because I thought, OK, it's the one-year anniversary. Like what am I going to talk about?

0:29:00
I want there to be some accountability here, but what's relevant right now is that program is not is not working for a lot of people and there's some big questions about maybe they should put a pause on it till they can work it out. Or is it really effective based on the evidence so? I thought about that and then I and then that reminded me of what happened to year ago, and that's how it tides in. But I was very, you know, cognizant of sort of not being unfair in that approach. Do you feel it's been a special time for you to be covering the government at this time through this very unprecedented time?

0:29:29
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think I. I mean, I, I feel as though we're still living in it, I guess so it's hard to figure it out, but I do feel as though I've never been a part of something. That and I specially felt this in the first six months like I had never ever worked on something where so many Canadians were absorbed into that subject, right? And we're like you had to get the information, right? Because people were counting on it and email.

0:30:03
I've never in my life had so many people. Email and send messages. Can you help with this? Can you can you ask this? Can you know what I mean?

0:30:13
So you definitely realize, like there's A and I'm not a big like. I'm not doing special work here. There's nobody on my operating table, but you definitely felt like there was a purpose to what you were doing and that you could really help people. Awesome, that's great. I'm thinking about breaking news.

2 - 0:30:33
That's a crisis nature when we've got our, you know, communicators. Listening in here and I think of the GG usually Payette stepping away from your post. I, as I recall, I think you were on the air at that time, when that when that news was breaking and when leaders are under pressure like that. What kinds of things are you looking for? I know that statement was issued for example on that day and you started sort of analyzing it.

0:30:52
Do you sense that you're almost? You know passing judgment or starting to sort of establish what the gist of the conversation, or the way that the story will be colored moving forward?

1 - 0:31:10
What do you? What are you looking for from leaders or responsible parties when they're under pressure in a crisis situation? Well in that situation, I don't necessarily think of it as passing judgment. I think of it as giving viewers Contacts, so I'm in a unique position because I cover it all the time because I'm like I said immersed in this stuff nonstop. My colleague Ashley Burke and then her producer Christian, never said had done months and months and months of work on that story. And so, when I got the statement and everything was you right? It was all breaking news.

0:31:42
It was you were winning. I want it was bringing the whole thing. It was four hours straight. With very few commercials until I think a few hours into it when the statement arrived, the truth is I can analyze it because. I have lived through all the other statements that preceded it, and the comments that preceded it and the allegations that preceded it, and they were reputation like the people saying this didn't happen or whatever, so of course I'm trying to be fair and analytical, but I think you know, I can point out she doesn't apologize.

0:32:14
She doesn't admit wrongdoing. Things like that, right? So? In my view, I'm there to deliver the statement and then I'm there. Also, because of my rule.

0:32:25
To help people understand what's relevant in it and why is it important and what matters here and then bring in and then we did have many guests who then could comment on that and expand on that. And I'm certainly not offering an opinion there, but I'm saying. Here's what's missing. Here are the parts that you should really pay attention to, and here's why. And so, from leaders in that.

0:32:50
I mean, that's an instance where, for example, the government put someone up that night. So, I'm looking for responsiveness, number one from people in a crisis. Don't hide. I think anyone who watched the interview with Dominic LeBlanc, who is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Would not have walked away thinking you know both of us did our job.

0:33:11
I asked him very pointed questions. He didn't necessarily have an answer for all of them, but he made himself available and he didn't shy away from a hard interview on a subject that didn't at the time make the government look great. And to me that is like step number one, right? Don't look like you're hiding. That's the people that they don't let other voices substituted.

0:33:34
For yours in in that moment and not, you know I'm not passing judgment one way or the other on the answers that were given, but it was like the lengthy exchange and there's no way you could watch that and think I went easy on them and there's no way you could watch him and think that he didn't try to defend his position. And at the end of the day, I don't, you know at least Canadians got a sense of what they were thinking, what? They're going to say about this thing. It's not perfect. There was still more analysis to do, but it's not. It's not a vacuum which has been other instances of breaking news, for example, where something there so governments embroiled in some controversy or one party or whatever.

0:34:13
And they let other people fill the void. Because eventually a different narrative will immerse and you have no control over it. Not something we talk about here regularly on the shows.

2 - 0:34:30
Glad to hear it echoed back from that side of the media microphone. So then just one more thing. So, building on that answer, how obvious and how? How obvious it is in your mind and how much do you acknowledge that you know the media is really part of maybe not the machine but the process of telling and hearing the stories from auto on a regular basis and you know how it can be. The media can play a part in impacting it as much, maybe as politicians or the experts behind you know the bureaucrats or the experts behind. What's going on? Do you understand your role?

0:35:03
Your show's role in? Politics and history unroll you know,

1 - 0:35:14
unfolding every day before our eyes. I can't see that I'm necessarily thinking about that on the on a daily basis because the like, if I'm being transparent because the job is so depending on the show is so demanding that a lot of times it's like I got to get 3 hours to hear, right? Anan that that is a heavy lift, but I think in the back of my mind I take what I do pretty seriously. I try very hard to be accurate and to be fair, I'm consumed by those issues like I am consumed. By making sure the structure of the lineup is not weighted to one side or the other, or my questions are like I said, like when I came up with those questions yesterday for Mr. Hardy like I thought very clear. Like I thought a lot about it and so I think I almost have like an internal instinctual sense of that responsibility.

0:36:02
Like I don't think of it as. Pure Entertainment, or, you know, I want people to be entertained and to enjoy what they're watching, but it's my career. It's my job. I, you know, I take it, I take it as seriously as anyone else takes something that they want to be working in 20 years from now. And I, I hope that at the end of the day, and I know way in no way that everybody will think this.

0:36:31
But I hope that at the end of the day, people feel that when they watch and that they're better off for watching the show and that they understand what's going on more. They care more about what's happening in Ottawa and I've helped make it relevant to them.

2 - 0:36:51
That's awesome and a great way for us to wrap up the time we've got together here of ashy. I really appreciate you coming on as I've mentioned, I think that there's some great value in there for our listeners in terms of you know how the machinery does work. How have your show gets put together and you know not,

1 - 0:37:09
maybe not sausage making, but sort of you know, pretty sausage making.

2 - 0:37:14
Thinking about you, you know to reach that standard of fairness and inquiry and interrogation and accountability like you're saying, and as it has been common throughout our series, hearing from journalists to know that authenticity matters and it can, it can affect stories. But it's just, you know it. It leads to better outcomes for both sides of both the media and those who are being questioned or wanting to promote what their, what their stances on something. So, it's great to get that. Validation from you and.

0:37:45
Again, thank you for taking the time to be on here today. I wish you all the best in your personal life moving forward and I think that everybody has a pretty good sense that that's you know, an extra you know, extra challenging role for you right now, but that you deliver so well on a daily basis and everybody really appreciates the work that you do.

1 - 0:38:08
So thanks again. Thank you for inviting me. It was a real pleasure. I appreciate it so much.

3 - 0:38:14
Once again, authenticity shows up as a theme in this episode. Not so much. The demeanor of the interview E but rather in this case the interviewer Vassy Kapelos  demonstrated her willingness to be transparent in our interview and there is every indication that she operates in a similar fashion with her colleagues and those she hosts on her show and the outcomes she produces as a result are obvious. She gets her guests to open up in a political landscape where people more often than not choose to remain guarded. As communicators, we encourage our spokespeople to open up. That approach is even more urgent.

0:38:47
Should you or someone you support face the likes of Ashley Foreign Accountability interview to be anything less than genuine, well, engaging with her would only amplify the fact that you are not being real, and that can have real consequences, especially when you're under fire, as we often remark, the realm of politics is likely a supercharged version of what you might run into in your organization, but the approaches you need to consider for your situation are merely highlighted by the nature of politics. Not necessarily that different. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. We hope to keep bringing you the best in the business from both sides of the media microphone. Who will help you better develop and deliver your messages and stories for now.

0:39:28
And always thanks for connecting with Speaking of media. We are available on all podcast platforms as well as on YouTube. Just ask for us by name where we hope you will listen like comment and subscribe to the cast as this helps us expand the show's reach and attract quality content. Be sure to also check us out on the Speaking of Media Facebook page in the coming days I will be hosting a series of workshops on crisis communication. Check it out on either Tuesday, March 23rd or Wednesday, March 24th at 7:00 PM Eastern Time.

0:39:59
That's the Speaking of media Facebook page. I hope to see you there. You'll also find us on Instagram. LinkedIn under my profile, and on Twitter at Media speaking. I'm Keith Marnoch and through other episodes I look forward to our next time together when we will be Speaking of media.