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33 min read (6537 Words)
I always said that I may have been more loved some days if I'd work for the tobacco industry. It was not easy. You had victims groups that were against you. You had personal injury lawyers who advertised on every street corner and in every urinal in a bar and they would come out in attack. And then you would have people who felt that they were wrongly done by.
0:00:27
It was tough all the time, but yet they fail to realize that 95%, probably even a higher number than that of all claims, are settled without. Any incident, but it was always the individual cases and reporters could find them like you wouldn't believe.
2 - 0:00:51
Media relations in its purest form, really hasn't changed much overtime. Media relations is essentially the practice of promoting your story or defending your position with a third party channel that has a wide audience that extends well beyond your organization's capabilities. What hasn't changed is that developing professional relationships has always been at the heart of that connection. What has evolved overtime in media relations is the scope, speed, and demands of media, and at the same time the media itself. Is under greater pressure from increased competition the need to produce more content for various platforms and above all decimated newsrooms through sector wide layoffs.
0:01:21
On this episode we speak to a communications professional who, like me, a former journalist, has specialized in media relations at the highest levels in Canada. Here on Speaking of media, the podcast, we're communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling. I'm Keith Marnoch, former journalist turned corporate communicator. And following our recent hiatus, I'm hoping you, as a communicator, will join me for each episode to learn from industry experts on both sides of the media. Microphone about tangible ways to share your stories and messages, and also perhaps as importantly how to avoid getting caught in a negative media storm.
0:02:04
Steve Key work, most notably in national radio, before he entered the financial corporate communications world, he was the assistant vice President of Communications for Sun Life Financial as well as director of Corporate Communications for the TMX Group, which operates the Toronto Stock Exchange and Toronto Venture Exchange. He completed his corporate communications career as the Director of External Communications for the Insurance Bureau of Canada. In semi retirement, Steve now operates his own communications company. Anne teaches and. Educates up and coming journalists and student communicators.
0:02:39
I had a chance to speak to Steve via Zoom from his office in Whitby ON about the current state of media relations and the realities of renewing more normal and connected operations as we pivot out of the global pandemic. So it's a great pleasure to welcome Steve Key to the Speaking of Media podcast.
3 - 0:03:01
Thanks for being with us, Steve. I've been thinking about trying to get you on the show for quite some time and I think that we've sort of been parallel in terms of trying to develop our own little corner of the world in the podcast thing. So really enjoying your stuff. And we'll certainly talk about that as we go along here. But thanks for joining us and I really appreciate the time.
0:03:17
Thank you for having me. You know Steve drawing on your years of experience. You know, in media communications and sort of media interaction.
1 - 0:03:29
In what ways do you think that the pandemic has really sort of changed the practice of media relations from where you sit? Well, you know, I read something earlier today. And it was said, you know, after this pandemic is over, I don't think they'll be an executive or a politician that will downplay the importance of communications ever again. I think now more than ever, it's the seeds that we've planted are starting to take root. So it's the connections. It's the the opportunities and to see companies wedge themselves properly in the stories, but also understanding that we're living in a world.
0:04:10
Where 50% of the people out there are going to completely disagree with everything you're trying to say. Or do you know trying to get by in from senior people is always something that communicators have to do.
3 - 0:04:30
When you've got up a backdrop or a landscape that is so not to overuse the word, but unprecedented and different than what's gone before. One of the things that you sort of rely on to validate. What you would recommend from a communications point of view you know how do you sell?
1 - 0:04:50
How do you sell an approach to leaders? The approach is always, you know, the more ingrained you are with your company, and often executives lose sight. On who their customer really is or what they're trying to promote in terms of a product or service, and it's incumbent on communicators to be able to be that link that conduit to understand what is being said, how it's being said, and where it's being said. Too often over Mycareer. Communications was always. Sort of off the side of the desk and that there were people that thought that they did it better than.
0:05:29
The people who were professionals today. You see more companies with communications people at the senior executive Table, and I think that that's very important because. It's as important as your sales or your marketing initiatives, because communications is a cost Center for companies and organizations were not necessarily driving revenue, but we are also preserving brand and reputation, and I think that's as important as anything to a company or an individual.
3 - 0:06:11
Yeah, when when communication really matters, you know there's either the pushback or the charge forward by executives, and we often talk about this on the on the show about how there are very, very capable leaders. Obviously who got into the top of their organizations, but communication can often be sort of a mystery to them. Can you talk a little bit about speaking truth to power? Perhaps not what leaders want to say or not want to hear, but the fact that at certain times? They may be blind to you, know the the what the outcomes might be of certain actions,
1 - 0:06:48
and again, how you're able to sort of position yourself and your argument to them to make them understand you know what the communication realities are of certain decisions. I think there's two parts to this. Keep on. On the one hand, when you were a younger communications person, you may not have the life skills, the experience within an organization to feel comfortable. Speaking with a senior executive in a very frank and honest manner. Perhaps experience gives you a certain amount of confidence or confidence in your own wisdom to be able to impart that, and that's where it's vital.
0:07:30
If you're not honest with the executives, then you're not doing your job. You're not. You're not providing everything I was often accused of of always providing a worst case scenario, but I would rather them make their mistakes with me than to make their mistakes. Out in the public where it could really. Affect a company's performance? I mean, I worked for public companies.
0:07:59
I've worked for industry associations. I've worked for, you know, very very small organisations. And the bottom line is you're only as good as your brand and reputation. It was in later years. I would say the last 15 to 20 where I felt confident in my own ability to say if I said something that was in contrast with what an executive may have. Thought or felt that I wasn't going to get punished or fired for that, and that was a bit liberating and I think helpful too, because there were times when I would provide provide a different perspective and say, well if we open this door we may be able to go down there and that that would work.
0:08:42
The last 10 years working for the insurance industry. There were a lot of major crises and understanding what. The day-to-day person, who perhaps their house, had burned down. They were in a horrific car collision. What they were feeling and what they were doing, I think, had an impact on how we, as an industry started to treat and deal with these people.
3 - 0:09:18
Speaking of sort of microcosm stories that illustrate larger themes or what you're trying to produce, you know in a broader scheme you know using the insurance industry as an example when you when you've got individual life stories or individual peoples, often tragedies. Is the Mike is the is the idea of a microcosm cosmic story against a larger theme still valid in terms of trying to get the attention of media?
3 - 0:09:46
I think about trying to get stories out there that are not pandemic related currently,
1 - 0:09:52
and the approaches that you might take to try to get voice or awareness for something that's sort of outside that scope right now. Well, I always believed when I was in communications that my role was to be a source. And a resource and what I meant by that was sure I was there if they needed to talk to me about something in my industry or organization. But if I would see something internationally or from the US that I thought a reporter might find helpful for other stories that they're working on. And this is where the key is to understand who's writing or speaking about you and what they may be interested in all of a sudden that builds. Credibility towards you so that in an area of a pandemic you may want to speak on some of the other stories, and Lord knows that there are many other stories out there that you can breakthrough because they have confidence that you're not coming to them with frivolous things you.
0:10:45
You're coming to them with something that is important. And as you know, in in the news game news is what's new, interesting or controversial, and you're always trying to find something. That is unique and it's hard during the pandemic. Trust me, hard as heck to do anything like that, but there are still stories to be told.
3 - 0:11:20
I feel like people might go to extremes to the point where they, you know, miss out on an opportunity that they work too hard at trying to connect themselves to how their product or their message relates to the pandemic. Right now, I think people might be bending over backwards and when in fact if they just tell a better story,
1 - 0:11:39
they might, you know, get it without having to sort of relate to you know this very much all encompassing story that we're dealing with globally every day. If we rewind Keith back to. March of 2020. I would say there was a six month period there where there was absolutely nothing. Other than pandemic or pandemic related stories, the transition probably happened in the fall where. Cases were down, people were starting to feel confident some people were getting back into restaurants, other stories started to come up and it's seasonal as well.
0:12:15
Getting towards the fall. But then the lockdown, especially Ontario, hit right around Christmas and that. Pushed us back into to that space. You see it in in companies and organisations, they laid off thousands of people. Many communications people were out of work in the media.
0:12:38
Several of the big names completely gutted newsrooms or radio in radio and TV and newspapers have been getting smaller and smaller and smaller. It's not that you don't have a great story to tell. You just don't have the options of places to go to tell those stories anymore, and so all these things have come together at the same time where if you're in a newsroom right now, your number one story is how many cases new cases of COVID Arthur, Ontario. What does that mean for the lock down? You know what these companies, the big versus small and the whole thing it it's that's going to continue until we start to see a real drop in cases and that.
0:13:23
People feel that they can get back to normal because at that point you will start to see more communications. People hired as companies begin to think that they have some confidence that they'll be able to ramp up their efforts. Perhaps by this fall, right?
3 - 0:13:49
I again, I'm using the pandemic a lot here, but note listening to the politicians and what they're trying to convey. Maybe not so much as organisations, but the politicians who are front and center who have by circumstance been able to. To gain the platform every day, every you know speaking more or less about the same things. My question to you is in terms of trying to differentiate a message. I was listening to, you know the news conferences again this past week I could have transported a lot of those to any month in the past six or eight, and it's not very different.
0:14:26
We've had some blips where there's actually been news. An actual changes. Are you feeling like politicians are doing a good enough job of? Being able to differentiate their message when they really need to hype it up every day. We kind of hear like you need to keep doing.
0:14:41
You know you need to keep following the guidelines and all those kinds of things. But on days when the numbers do spike up or down or when there is an actual issue around vaccines and so on. Even though they have the platform every day, are they doing a good enough job of differentiating? You know what the story of the day really is. Two points, two points there.
0:15:07
One knew cycles are shorter and shorter. They used to be a day or two days. They can be 6 hours today. So whatever is the biggest thing that. Makes it difficult as far as what the politicians are doing.
0:15:22
We have such a polarizing world. Neither on the left or on the right. There are few people and I hope the journalists are part of that that are somewhere in the middle in that Gray zone that can think and provide context on both areas. I wouldn't want to be a politician today. I think you're in a no win situation because no matter what.
0:15:48
Say the premier in Ontario and the health minister say 50% of the people in this province are going to call them liars. They're going to call them insensitive and whatever the case may be. But I guarantee that these politicians have been on the job. Day in and day out. Their advisors are working an extraordinary number of hours trying to do something and get the best.
0:16:12
The best data and information they can from their experts. And no, no decision is popular. But other countries, England, Australia, New Zealand took very strong. Measures early in the pandemic and our close to no new cases and we didn't. I mean, I. If I look at this as a person.
0:16:45
And I am a person I. I was very angry that. You know we didn't get vaccines as quickly as the US. But then you have to go back and look at your history and say you know the pharma industry in this country essentially was allowed to disappear under previous governments. That's why we don't have a made in Canada solution. So no matter what politician says today, there's an anchor that goes back to all of that and then rollout plans and situations.
0:17:20
Sure, you want to target your most vulnerable communities. The people in nursing homes, long term care that's important. And then you start to rollback the age groups. Now I was at the cusp, I'm I'm 59 years old now and I was frustrated. You know the over 70s?
0:17:44
The over 60s? No one was going to get to me then you end up getting your shot. You feel good about it and then the whole AstraZeneca story breaks and now I'm got AstraZeneca surging through my body and I'm thinking, well, OK, am I gonna clot? Am I going to be OK so I could be very angry and blame the politicians for maybe agreeing to put something out that shouldn't have been put out? I could. Be angry that it's slow.
0:18:13
I could be angry that the process doesn't work. But at the end of the day. Now I have to make the decision myself and I'm I don't regret any decision I've made.
3 - 0:18:27
Yeah, I think the AstraZeneca one is, again, is a prime example of, you know, words matter, messaging matters. It's a story that's you know, kind of taken on a life of its own. I think people are continuing to hear and understand that it's a very small, if not miniscule, amount of people that get affected by it. But the story doesn't go away, and there's there's no, there hasn't been a really in my view, there hasn't really been someone who stepped up and really been able to put context on that in a way that's you know less than that. And it's a great example of how, when the message kind of goes out of control.
0:19:05
It changes, in fact, the way that issues are even dealt with. Can you talk sort of more generally about trying to keep. Your message on track when you're in a tough issue. Making sure that you're not letting things kind of get out of hand, whether through rumor or misinformation around something. Are there ways that you can?
0:19:28
Are there principles or their approaches that you can put into place to try to keep a bad issue on track and keep your message is clear as possible when
1 - 0:19:40
you're trying to counteract that? Well, I think every every time you're you're giving a message, especially in a crisis situation is to be able to show the right amount of empathy that you have an understanding and clear an if there's something you've done that you're at fault for. You need to admit it rather than regret it. Rarely do people say they are sorry. But they regret a lot, and that that's a qualifier that there's always bothered me also. There are politicians and and spokespeople in general.
0:20:10
I'm not going to just blame politicians that get a list of four key messages, three or four key messages, and they stick to them no matter what the question is. I think that any good communications person is able to come up with the headline messages that you want, and then some supporting points that you can talk to, and perhaps that leads to a bridge into something that you want to talk about, but. You ultimately have to answer the question and you have to answer the question. Then be thoughtful with that. So good spokespeople have the ability to be able to have a bit of a discussion rather than just Parrot out answers.
0:20:47
I love that I love that point.
3 - 0:20:56
I want to kind of follow up on that. Thanks for bringing up. So we're talking with Steve, Steve, Steve. Key communications here on Speaking of Media, Steve, how about emotional intelligence when it comes to spokespeople? Beyond reading the room? But also understanding, you know if you go down the wrong path and reporters perhaps pounce on something that you kind of went outside of your scope on trying to work your way back. Or I guess, finessing.
0:21:23
The way that you're trying to impart messages or the OR the bigger story. I guess we talk a lot about on the podcast about storytelling and understanding. You know what part a spokesperson plays in sort of telling that story? Can you just expand a little bit on the whole spokesperson thing? I really appreciate your experience in that Realm, and I guess maybe the question will ask, is that you know how has, if at all the connection between communication people in the media changed?
0:21:52
Or evolved in the last number of years as we see more influence on from social media and other factors that you know really impact the connection between a comms
1 - 0:22:08
person and immediate person. Good question. You know the thoughtful answers takes a little bit to put together. I left the media. In 1988 to go work for the Toronto Stock Exchange. My initial role. To deal with the media was to answer questions, arrange interviews. There's a gained experience that was more of a triage, sort of like the nursing triage.
0:22:34
When you go to emergency and then the development of having to know and build those issues so the role of a spokesperson, a true spokesperson. If someone who can speak on behalf of the company because of a reporter phones up your organization one you need to be responsive and get back to them with with an answer or you can't do an answer or you can you put them off, manage timelines and those are very short and then be able to have something to say. I used to refer to it at work as a bit like the spokesperson staircase. I was at the bottom of the stairs taking a lot of what was there. Everything that sort of fell downhill to me.
0:23:15
If we needed to escalate to more of a subject matter expert, I could move up a couple of steps to someone who could do that. Finally, at the top of the staircase. Would be the CEO that. You used your CEO selectively. When they were big picture issues, something that looked to to forecast because if your CEO got it wrong at the beginning, everything else was wrong. If I got something a little bit wrong, I then had the subject matter expert person I could bring in, and so on and so forth and that to build that staircase and to build that that suite of spokespeople.
0:23:52
I think helped me really understand where my role is and now today. You know, I'm I'm working on my own, so I'm advising a lot of companies and organisations primarily in the region where I live in Durham region and just helping them get a voice and get an understanding and realizing that if something falls through the cracks, it's incumbent on me to identify that and to help manage out of that.
3 - 0:24:30
What do you advise people on when they're under pressure, not only from sort of an intrinsic issue,
1 - 0:24:36
but it being driven from social media? When I started at IBC in 2011, traditional media was like 95% of what we did. Social was 5%. Around the time of the flooding in Calgary where that really started to step up, that pendulum started to switch to shift an. I would say that today organisations like my former organization would put 75 to 80% into social media and what they say there an maybe 2025% into traditional. It's that. Massive shift in the way that people are thinking annual.
0:25:10
There are companies out there. Metrolinx for one. You know their news releases and information go out first on social media. Yes, don't even use a news distribution service like. Like decision to put things out.
0:25:31
You know it's more cost effective for them, and if you build up a. Core audience you can do things like that. It's become the research tool for just about everybody, and I think back to. Our time with IBC back in 2016 with the fires in Fort McMurray. And journalists. Would almost and what this does sound like a bad word, but they were. They were sort of controlling Facebook groups that popped up to get individual stories from people who were having challenges with their claim, and it became a story.
0:26:15
So I called that the death by 1000 Cuts syndrome because no matter what we did, you know, you could always find the other side and that was a real challenge. Working in the insurance industry was too. To tell a good story. Because. Insurance, while necessary an important and does a valuable service, is a begrudging purchase.
0:26:41
You hope you never have to use it, and then when you have to use it, you hope you can get it and it's not a bank account, it's it's the way things are priced, and there's actuarial tables and the whole thing like that. But it is a. It is a challenge to be a public relations media professional for that industry because there's lots of people out there that want to shoot you in the but you're not in your not intrinsically loved. I always said that I may have been more loved some days if I'd work for the tobacco industry. It was not easy. You had victims groups that were against you.
0:27:20
You had personal injury lawyers who advertised on every street corner and in every urinal in a bar and they would come out in attack. And then you would have people who felt that they were wrongly done by. Specially around home, auto and commercial insurance it was it was tough. It was tough all the time, but yet they failed to realize that you know 95%, probably even a higher number than that of all claims are settled without any incident. But it was always the individual cases and reporters could find them like you wouldn't believe.
3 - 0:28:03
You were central in terms of the Toronto Stock Exchange, TMX moving out of the old Toronto Stock Exchange to a more I guess, more virtual world. Did you feel that communication sort of trend? Transformed transformed in the sentence at the same time and in a similar way,
1 - 0:28:23
when that physical change happened at the exchange a couple of years before that point was when the exchange went from being owned by the brokerage firms to being a public company. So it changed the way we started to communicate. 'cause then we were under timely disclosure rules and and and and and all of that. So the mindset you went. From being a utility almost to an actual public company that needed to address shareholder issues and build value into the company.
0:28:49
But still. And the exchange was always looked upon as being an institution, so it had this unique opportunity of not only being the trading platform, but the company itself that traded on the exchange as we moved from a physical trading floor to virtual trading. There were hiccups with technology and I was at the forefront of that. Would face it that there were a lot of things that that didn't go right over that period of time and there were a lot of things that went right. So the exchange of today and I am.
0:29:37
12 years gone from the exchange World is a dynamic virtual marketplace. That process is hundreds of thousands of more trades an hour than we used to be able to do entire day an from the capital market perspective and moving money around it is one of the classy exchanges of the world.
3 - 0:30:05
I'm I'm not sure if you know this, but I worked at Globe and Mail's websites back in in the convergence days around 2000. So on an work for Globe investor and from that experience I know that there are very particular, especially in the financial world. Very particular reporters that you want or editors that you want to have connections with and that you want to reach out to. I think that's probably fair to say that that exists in most industries or most sectors. What advice would you have?
0:30:30
You know, living in the world that we live in currently, where everything is kind of remote? What are your recommendations to students that you talk to or people who are sort of just started starting out in the industry in terms of adding media relations to their comms toolkit to establish really strong relationships? Professional relationships that you know when stuff hits the fan, you're able to still deal with and reach out to and be effective with.
1 - 0:30:58
Well, I'm going to. I'm going to throw a an old phrase back at you that you will get, but maybe some of your audience won't get. But you wrote we were only as strong as your rolodex in the day. And that would be the cards and the contacts that you kept in the file. Now you can keep them any number of ways you're really today only as strong as the network and the people that you've established. If I think back to those days prior to 2000 and some of the reporters that I dealt with.
0:31:24
Well, they would go on to management positions and senior executive positions within the news media. So we kind of all grew up together. I'm in an enviable position and I have been for the last 10 to 15 years that I could pick up the phone and talk to somebody if I wanted to get sort of the bigger perspective that today's. Communications people may not have those contacts, but you have to find a way to build those contacts and you need the network. So you need to speak with people.
0:32:00
Say that it's networking with and ask you. You go in there. You want to ask a question you want to get an idea. You may want a connection with somebody. But you have to build that relationship with me before I'm willing to open up my network to someone else and it's time consuming, but I bet I spend, you know, still to this day 10 to 15 hours a week on building and fostering that network that I have and not only are they senior people, but now I've turned to helping students, and I do probably 2.
0:32:42
To three zoom meetings a week with young students trying to enter the workforce, I'm starting to include some of them on podcasts I'm doing just to bring that fresh perspective because I never want to. I never want to forget where I came from. They got me to where I am today and I'll tell you right now, it's a wonderful life. Absolutely yeah, I applaud you for that work that you do.
3 - 0:33:11
I was going to ask you what you're trying to impart to students but often, and I've done a little bit of speaking as well. What are you hearing from them? But you feel maybe is a disconnect. The students who are people who are young to the industry. Are there things that they're not quite understanding that your experience kind of helps them with to try to focus on what's important in terms of trying to build their
1 - 0:33:34
career? Are there things that that you get enlightened about when you talk to students? Well, I find what inspires me about students is their enthusiasm and there are some of them are so professional in their approach, and some of them aren't and I try to provide some of those housekeeping tips to get them to the next level. I can be a bit more outgoing and flamboyant and crazy because I've earned it, but they can't when they're starting. So it's, you know, kind of. Coaching them a little bit on their social media profiles because you don't want to be too opinionated or crazy. Your Instagram feeds. I mean, you know if it's all bathing suit shots at the beach or in the bar.
0:34:18
An employer is going to see something like that. Make sure that they have a good LinkedIn profile because it's easy to do that. And then what would happen if we Googled you? When are we going to find? And so that helps him understand that.
0:34:38
Then I just. I I talk about the networking experience and for a student student groups and I recently spoke with Durham College and with Humber College. Some of their graduating students an I said that you kind of look around this room and this is your first networking group of people that you're graduating with. You're going to hear about jobs you're going to hear about opportunities from them, and then you're going to build it into your workforce. And you're going to expand that network and expand that network.
0:35:08
Look for the jobs and the people that you want to be like. Because no one person should look and say I want to be like Steve Key or Keith Martin know they want a little bit of Keith. They want a little bit of me. They want a little bit of this a little bit about that forms the person they are because I had tremendous mentors through my career. And I have mentored many people who have gone on to very successful positions.
0:35:34
And as they elevate through there, that's why the phone calls come to me about work. You know, people want me to do work for them. Those are relationships. Let's not because I'm hanging out a shingle, and advertising and doing that know every job that's come to me is because somebody has said speak with Steve, or I know Steve and he can do that, and that's that's where they have to get. And you're not going to get that at 25.
3 - 0:36:07
Well, that's why we've come and called on you for the show and appreciate the connections that you have out there. Looking to wrap it up. But anything on a broader scale. What are we going to look at look like when we get back to the offices or some of us get back to the office is? We've talked to reporters on this show who said they've gotten very comfortable with finding people more quickly through remote channels. Kind of like what we're doing here today.
0:36:30
Are there other things that communication people need to be thinking about? When we try to remove ourselves from virtually, you know, completely virtual to perhaps some sort of a hybrid model that will allow people to be more efficient, but more effective in the work that they do.
1 - 0:36:49
Once we kind of decide and declare that we're back to a more normal footing, well, you've opened up a an interesting parts of discussion. It's almost a whole other episode, but think about it this way, companies are going to realize that they portion. Of their workforce can work from home. That's going to have an effect on commercial real estate. Do companies need the same type of work structures offices, cubicles? The whole thing like that, or can they go to almost?
0:37:18
Remote location where people come in and just plug and play and be able to do that so you can work from any number of locations. Idaho telling that's what that's called. I also think at the beginning that this is going to be a staged in effect. People with young kids at home right now are used to the OR they may not like it, but they used to the schooling situation that they're going to be a little nervous as their kids go back to school and that may make some people hesitant. Also, some people have. I've known many people who have left.
0:37:49
Removed during the pandemic to to be further and further away from the downtown Toronto Course. Are you going to want to jump on the go training or a TTC bus? I know it's going to take awhile for people to be comfortable with that again, so the workplace of tomorrow. Will be more virtual or virtual options, but it will never ever replace the dynamic of being around a table with a group of your colleagues and being able to brainstorm that way that you can't. It just doesn't. It's not the same on Zune.
0:38:26
Well, I think you I think you've nailed it in that regard and will have to kind of see how things unfold,
3 - 0:38:37
but your experience and expertise come through here completely today, so we appreciate you taking the time. I've been a listener of the next phase, your podcast that can be found where people find their podcasts. It's great to hear it. It's a great for me. It's a great connector to the world that I that I'm concerned with and like to keep my keep my fingers on the pulse of so I appreciate that and I encourage other people who are.
0:39:02
Communicators to to tune into that and obviously you've proved your worth otherwise today. So if there's anybody out there looking for communications support anywhere. Steve Key Communications and will leave review all his connections on all our platforms where we put the podcast out there. But Steve, thank you so much. I think you're right, we've we've scratched the surface of a couple of issues and if you don't mind, we may reach out to you again when appropriate to try to get your opinions on on these and other issues in the in the episodes ahead.
1 - 0:39:35
We thank you so much for this. It's always fun to have a bit of this in depth conversation. Sometimes I worry it's a little bit too inside baseball, but I think we come out of it at the end with, you. Know some good ideas and approach and hope your audience appreciates it. We do an yeah, we're hoping it's a little bit inside baseball that's kind of the value that we try to bring.
3 - 0:39:57
So and I'll say that you did that for us on this episode completely, so really appreciate it. All the best with the work that you're doing and hey, enjoy a little bit of your.
2 - 0:40:07
More or less retirement lifestyle by the sea that you know a life well lived in media has resulted in where you are right now. So thanks very much and take good care. Thank you to our thanks to Steve Key for joining us here on Speaking of Media. We hope to keep bringing you the best in the business just like Steve from both sides of the media microphone. Who will help you better develop and deliver your messages and stories for now. Thanks for connecting. Speaking of Media is available on all podcast platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher and TuneIn Radio.
0:40:37
I hope you will listen like comment and subscribe to the cast. We are also on YouTube now. Just look for Speaking of medium. You'll also find me on my website Keith Marnoch. Com as well as on social media platforms like Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. Also on Twitter at media speaking.
0:40:53
I'm Keith Maroccan through other episodes. I look forward to our next time together when we will be Speaking of media.