Leveraging Expert Commentary: with Carmi Levy, Technology Journalist

Is there a way for you to develop a channel or opportunities for you to be seen as a media go-to expert; or even better, a pundit who can legitimately comment and provoke a story or discussion – based on the news of day that can benefit your overall comms goals?? 

 What is the value of expert commentary? … and is your organization poised to leverage someone from within your ranks to create this subtle but potentially high-profile form of brand journalism. 

In this episode we speak to Carmi Levy… the London, Ontario-based Tech analyst and journalist who created an avenue to become just such a go-to technology expert. His approach and success are based on years of building solid and valuable relationships. However - the process he developed is one that can be replicated if it makes sense for your business … but AGAIN it does rely upon a great deal of relationship building. And speaking of that... I am so pleased I have a relationship with Carmi that led to his willingness to come on the podcast and share with you his insider approach to garnering this type of media coverage when we recently spoke recently via Zoom….

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Transcript

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34 min read (6779 Words)

1 - 0:00:00
Right, and I I always use my mother's my my litmus test if she understands it. You know those bite sized chunks of tech that mere mortals can get. Then I've succeeded if I've lost her. I've lost the audience so I'm always bouncing things off of her. You know, giving her a call and saying what you know.

0:00:12
Does this make sense? And that's important. No matter whether you know whether you're telling stories that are in tech or in any other space A do you have the passion for it? Does it you know? Does it make you want to jump out of bed in the morning and grab your your iPhone and just, you know, do a search and look for stuff that you know.

0:00:28
You can then talk about first thing in the morning, because if it does, then you've pretty much found your calling. That's your

2 - 0:00:38
passion. So you've researched a topic that benefits your brand to the point where you believe that you are an expert, or perhaps you've spent most of your career developing an expertise that you hadn't even really planned for. But the reality is, you certainly know your stuff. Is there a way for you to develop a channel or opportunities to be seen as a media? Go to expert, or even better, a pundit who can legitimately comment? And provoke a story or discussion based on the news of the day that can benefit your overall comms goals.

0:01:01
What is the true value of expert commentary? And is your organization poised to leverage someone from within your ranks to create this subtle but potentially high profile form of brand journalism? Hi again, and welcome to the summer sessions of Speaking of media. The podcast where communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling. I'm Keith Marnoch, former. Journalist turned corporate communicator and as a communicator, I'm hoping that you will be joining us for as many episodes as possible to learn from industry experts on both sides of the media.

0:01:34
Microphone about effective ways to share your stories and messages. On this episode we speak to Carmi Levy the London ON based tech analyst and journalist who's created an Ave to become just such a go to technology expert. His approach and success is based upon years of building solid. Invaluable relationships, however, the process he developed is one that can be replicated if it makes sense for your business, but again, it does rely upon a great deal of relationship building and Speaking of that, I am so pleased that I do have a relationship with carmie that led to his willingness to come on the podcast and share with you his insider approach to garnering this type of media coverage. When we spoke recently via zoom.

3 - 0:02:28
So it is a great pleasure to welcome Carmi Levy to the Speaking of Media podcast. We've been, you know, trying to find this trying to get this guy in the show for a long time and I think most people across Canada certainly are aware of Carmi and welcome to the show Carmen. Hey, thanks for taking the time to be with us. I so appreciate

1 - 0:02:46
being here. Keith, thank you for having me. It is quite the honor.

2 - 0:02:50
Awesome, so

3 - 0:02:51
just to get started. I mean you've carved out a real niche for yourself. Being sort of this educated communicator and the tech corner and the tech realm bringing context and insights to technology in the news of the day. Carmen, do you consider yourself to be a journalist?

1 - 0:03:08
I do. My degree says you know, I majored in journalism, so I'm a journalist by education and background. I've worked in newsrooms, you know, throughout Ontario and Quebec, I've had bylines in the Toronto. Star, I've worked with Bell Media CBC both on air or digitally, as well as in print various publications. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know I've, I've been, you know I've contributed sort of back into the the the industry for years.

0:03:29
Currently that's not what I do. My day job is, you know, corporate communications and marketing. However, you know, journalism to me is never really been about a job. It's been kind of what you're built to do. It's a calling, and so those skills.

0:03:48
That I brought to the table when I was writing for Yahoo Finance, you know are exactly the same skills that I bring to the table now. When you see me on the 6:00 o'clock news trying to explain something geeky in a way that most people can understand and do something about, and really for me as a journalist, that's what that's what's always been. My driving passion is technology is too difficult for most people to do anything with. We need to break that down and we need to help people understand what does it mean to them? What should they be doing next?

0:04:18
How do they best? Navigate this and that's as my as always sort of figuring out my direction as a journalist. I realized media wasn't doing a particularly good job with the technology beat and I had skills in that area. I had technical, you know, technical abilities that melted really nicely with my abilities as a communicator and the rest, as they say, is history. Somehow I carved out a voice in an industry where no one else was covering tech in quite that way.

3 - 0:04:49
Right and you really have sort of invented. I wouldn't say invented, but you've refined it in a way that's gotten you. You know to the highest ranks and sort of the broadest channels where people will see you and know you. But maybe you could just tell our audience, you know, you know what you actually do to produce the products that they're aware of. It's I find it to be a little bit unique and fascinating, and I, I'm, you know, I think it's a great approach and something that people can learn. So how do you? How do you make

1 - 0:05:23
the magic? So what I'm always doing, like I'm always horizon scanning and I think any storyteller, no matter where you work, whether you're a journalist, whether you're working in corporate communications, PR. You've always got to be looking at the window, looking toward the horizon, asking yourself what's going on, read the tea leaves, understand the trends and the themes within those trends that matter to people. So I'm always looking for story ideas. I'm a voracious reader, so I'm constantly just consuming like a fire hose. And trying to pick out from all the things that I do read and watch and listen to the things that I think people will be interested in.

0:05:51
It's really simple. You know what in there? Would my mom be interested in what in there? Would you know someone who's working in business be interested in what does this technology story? Why does it matter to regular people?

0:06:09
Why should they care? And so I triage those outs in every week. I just I. I built a pitch List 810 twelve stories that really resonate with me that the kind of thing that. When I get together with friends, assuming that we can get together with friends soon, that will be talking about 'cause people are always asking me comma. What's cool? What's going on, and the answer to that is really simple.

0:06:31
If you take the time to do that horizon scanning so it all starts with that. And then of course once I have that, you know this is what's going on this week. This is what's jazzing me really interested. Interesting me in tech. I can then pitch it to media and I've got built relationships over the years with producers, editors, publishers and so I just share it.

0:06:50
But then here's what I'm looking at this week, and then from that I end up with, you know, can you come on can you? Can I interview you? Can we talk for the 11:00 o'clock news and that just generates kind of an ongoing drumbeat of activity where I'm the guy commenting on the stories that are relevant? Because rather than waiting for them to come to me, I'm generating my own ideas and I'm going to market with them. And you know, that was my sort of the first lesson was I, rather than having to go look for a job.

0:07:20
And convince people that I am the real deal. Instead, I kind of created my own brand from my kitchen table, and then work somehow magically followed me so I no longer have to look for it. It finds me all because I have this regular cadence of scanning. What's going on in the outside world. Publishing a short pitch list of things that are interesting and then sharing it with folks in conventional media as well as in new media.

0:07:40
And then having those conversations and then that just sort of creates this virtuous circle. That kind of has momentum. Of its own.

3 - 0:07:56
And yeah, absolutely, and it really is interesting how you're sort of like turning the tables quite literally. The kitchen table on the way that you do that right? So and isn't it great that you're interested, educated and knowledgeable about tech, but it's so ubiquitous for people and everybody touches it, but so few really understand it. And I think there is a real thirst out there for that, and obviously, that makes your stories highly. You know highly adjustable or consumable. I mean that's the goal, right?

1 - 0:08:29
Is that and I I always use my mother's my litmus test if she understands it. You know those bite-sized chunks of tech that mere mortals can get. Then I've succeeded if I've lost her. I've lost the audience so I'm always bouncing things off of her. You know, giving her a call and saying what you know. Does this make sense? And that's important.

0:08:44
No matter whether you know whether you're telling stories that are in tech or in any other space A do you have the passion for it? Does it? Does it make you want to jump out of bed in the morning and grab your iPhone? Just, you know, do a search and look for stuff that you know you can then talk about first thing in the morning, because if it does, then you've pretty much found your calling. That's your passion. If it doesn't jazz you, then don't, you know, don't write about it.

0:09:07
Don't speak about it, don't pursue it. But in my case, I'm blessed. I've I found something that I love to do so much that I I didn't really see it as a job. And then it kind of became something because I just kept doing it and people found value in it. So I think really, that sort of is the key is that you know a I was passionate about it.

0:09:23
B you know, I recognize that the industry simply wasn't delivering what it could have technology journalism for the longest time was based on what we like to call feeds and speeds. So you know, for example, you look at a computer and have fast as the processor. How big is the hard drive and all these technical specs that, let's face it, no one cares about, you know, only engineers care about, of course. But you know your morals don't will this computer allow me to go to school? Can I crack it open in my lecture hall at Western?

0:09:56
And will it serve me through my degree? Will IT support my business, you know? Do I have I bought enough Internet capacity to support my growing business? That's what people care about. They don't care about the numbers and so you know, I early on started reframing that in a way that I felt was relevant to people and.

0:10:12
And I found that the media was looking for that. They weren't getting the answers from a lot of the early tech journalists who were sort of telling their stories and I just went a different way. And you know, I, I think especially now, that media is shifting and fracturing. And there are so many different channels that you can get your story out. You really do have to think.

0:10:38
How do I break it up into bite sized chunks so that people want to consume and not

3 - 0:10:45
just roll their eyes and go somewhere else, right? So let's talk a little bit of I love that tangent and I love that area discussion. So social media access and 24-hour traditional broadcast outlets. Can you talk a little bit about how maybe? That's worked in your favor, or at least more generally, how that opens up the channels for either individuals or people who are representing companies as you do to try to get messages and stories out there.

0:11:03
What you know? What are the things that are the biggest things that have kind of changed recently that maybe are untapped? I'd like to call

1 - 0:11:19
social media is the great enabler you know and the and the reason being is it allows people to fight outside their weight class to connect in ways that they never were able to connect before. I mean, if you had told me 20 years ago that I would have, you know, tools in my hand that would allow me to decide if I wanted to be on the CTV National news tonight by reaching out to someone with an idea that I had. You know, I would have laughed at you and so whereas now you know using social media creatively, strategically you can place yourself in a position where you can get that kind of coverage. If you know how to play the game. And I think that the great misconception of social media is that it will replace conventional media and it doesn't.

0:11:54
Social media isn't doing basic reporting. Social media is not journalism and someone who simply retweets something is not a journalist and so it complements it. But it doesn't replace it. And I think we need to sort of understand how social media interacts with media, but it's not going to make it go away. In fact, it can empower it to a tremendous degree if you know how to use it.

0:12:15
So that's really been my goal. It's uses social media and creative ways to build the kinds of networks that allow me to ensure that my message gets across. And then I'm speaking with the right people at the right time in the right context. Come and sort of making those right decisions. And you know, somewhat selfishly, to drive my brands. But you know, if it's good for me, it's good for everyone else too.

0:12:39
So if a major story happens, there's a huge cyberattack. For example, if I can make sure that my message is in the right channels when that cyberattack happens, I can save a lot of people a lot of heartbreak as well. And you know, in the process maybe get me some work.

3 - 0:12:57
So let's drill down a little bit on that. Let's let's reveal the secret sauce as much as you want to hear, what's your day look like, and what kinds of things are you trying to pull out of what we were? Probably waking up and hearing on the radio, or seeing on on the television news networks? What's what's the focus for you to get to the point where you can produce a product or story that day? So typical day, I

1 - 0:13:23
will wake up early and I'll just grab my phone and I'll just go through. My feeds and I've I've set up a whole bunch of feeds. I use specific apps to allow me to read a lot of content very quickly so you use reader apps and then I use. So for example, like Flipboard. Just this kind of read a ton. I'd still use RSS readers 'cause I believe in the power of RSS, really simple syndication, even though Google gave up on reader years ago, that is a great way of rather than having to read through multiple websites, you consolidate it down into a feed which lets you flip through headers very quickly, you know, and I'll rip through Reddit.

0:13:57
And other sources as well, just to kind of, you know, read the site Geist. What are people talking about? What are the trends? What's jumping out that I didn't see before I went to bed last night, and so once I identify those and I tagged them, I tagged him into an app called Pocket. And then you know, pocket gives me basically a reading list, which then lets me sort of pick and and and downsize downscale the list of issues, themed stories that I think are resident.

0:14:22
How do I know or decide what's relevant? Well, you know if if it. Me in a certain way, if I think people will be interested in it. If it builds on something that I've talked about before, for example, for years you know I was. I was the BlackBerry guy in Canada as BlackBerry was ascending and then as it was descending, people came to me for that because it was a major inflection point in mobile device history and mobile services history and so you know it it almost I.

0:14:42
I just looked for a BlackBerry story and magically there it was, you know today I look for an Apple story and magically, there's there's an Apple store. But the problem is people get tired of the same old. I'm also one of the facets in there that haven't been talked about. What are people missing and what matters to them? So for example, in you know these for example a few couple months ago there was a case of a cyber attack against Colonial colonial pipeline which resulted in gas shortages up and down the US East Coast.

0:15:17
Well, you know, that wasn't just about gas, it was about a new form of cyberattack called the supply chain attack. That and they were testing. It wasn't terribly damaging. It was the kind of a harbinger of things to come, and so that's kind of what you need to know is that you know when there's an election, for example, start asking the person who's knocking on your door asking for your vote, what are you gonna do about cybersecurity? 'cause at some point, that's going to cost my government millions of dollars?

0:15:44
It's going to put it out of Commission. It's going to bring my city to its knees and, and we need an answer to that. And so you know what's happening. What are these trends and how are they coming to your door? And what questions should we be asking how?

0:15:58
We'll be changing our behaviors, and I mean, they're not fun stories. Sometimes they keep us up at night, but it's still important. We can't afford to put our heads in the sand on a lot of these, and these are the kinds of things that jump out from the norm and make me want to want to talk about them. And that's that's what becomes a story to me. And that's sort of what I really like to talk about, 'cause people need to know.

3 - 0:16:22
We're talking with Carmi Levy, a tech journalist here on Speaking of media with Keith Murdoch. And let's go back a little bit to talk about. You know the whole idea around you? Connecting with editors and journalists and I and I, I grant and I'll give you, you know, I'm sure you've been at it for a long time, but again, for a how-to for our audience. Thinking about what that looks like, what that feels like maybe not so much for you 'cause you've mastered it.

0:16:45
But what are the elements that kind of work? Well for you and are you feeling that you're talking to newsrooms that are having fewer and fewer people all the time? Every time you pick up the phone, you know I I've been in media long

1 - 0:17:03
enough that you know I remember back to the days of the Rolodex and you know I used to say you know those who had the largest Rolodex is win. So it's all about networking and the better you can build your network and have processes that allow you to get the names. Get the phone numbers and get the email addresses and other contact forms and learn how people like. To be contacted, something like I hate voicemail. For example, don't call me literally don't leave me a voicemail because that will be the last way I get back to you. So learn your network, build relationships through there and then commit.

0:17:31
You know social media gives you another incredible way to compact. Connect with people. In fact, in many cases I'm using social media exclusively to communicate with some of the journalists that I work with. So really, it's like you're always networking, no matter who you are, how long you've been in this business, and the bigger your network becomes, and the easier that you can leverage it so that if you have a thought. You can then just quickly reach out to someone to go.

0:17:53
Hey, what do you think? And I'm doing that all the time. Constantly pinging people that I know is saying does this hold, you know, does this carry weight? Does this hold water and by extension they're reaching out to me as well and I've become kind of that temperature check for them to validate. You know, you know. Here's a technology story.

0:18:10
Should we be covering it and all either tell them you know no, because I don't think anyone is interested. Or yes, they are. And here's why. And I'll literally build the pitch out for them. In some cases I'll even send them notes.

0:18:22
And I write fast, so in many cases what I'll do is I'll take the time. If it's 5 minutes jamming something out of my phone to do a solid for another journalist, I'll do it in a heartbeat. 'cause I've been in the field. I've been in the trenches, I know what it's like. I'm not hard, it is to find people who are, you know, know what they're talking about, are willing to take the time to help you to work with you and you know, if you put the good out in the world, that will come back to you as well, and so really, it all comes down to networking.

0:18:48
Build the largest network, cultivate it, and just be there for others as you want them to be. Therefor you and then magically opportunity comes out of that. And then next thing you know you become the go to person when something happens in your space.

3 - 0:19:03
Yeah, it's great. I mean I and I know that people are listening to this and going. Wow, that sounds great. So do you see that there's a way? And I'm not asking you to kind of create your own competition here, but is there a logical or, you know, a straightforward way that an organization who's looking to try to against pitch it stories or its messages or so on, you know is there? Is there a chance for organizations to kind of manufacture a car? Me within their comms department?

0:19:32
Or, you know, build a persona. I I often get the question you know, like political pundits are they paid well. I mean, often there's the relationship you know there about. You know whether or not it's sort of a regular gig or not, you know. And it's different from from from show to show people to people.

0:19:47
But you know, if someone is in a communications department for an organization, is this something that they could actually sort of pursue? They absolutely can't.

1 - 0:20:00
Even though, like in my wife says, the world can probably only handle one. Of me, which is probably not a bad thing. But yeah, the truth of the matter is, is you should be encouraging this in all of your people. If you are in the communications business, you should be allowing them to take the time to build those networks to create those relationships to build their own eminence in a particular space to own the storytelling art for a specific subject area so that they become known for that. The last thing that you want to do when you're working in communications is just throwing cold pitches over the wall.

0:20:27
I'm hoping some of them stick. We don't have time for that, you know. Take a look at your inbox right now or your multiple inboxes email LinkedIn. Your direct messages in social media. How many of them do you really read?

0:20:43
Most of them are some from people that you either don't know or you know some in a somewhat tertiary manner. And if it's just like a like, a generic outreach or generic pressure release that doesn't take you into account. I know I'm not reading it, and you probably aren't either, so communications needs to move away from that. I'm not saying the press release is dead, but the way we use it. Needs to change. It needs to become part of a conversation.

0:21:04
So you ask yourself what kind of stories do I have to tell who out there would be interested in them? Who in conventional media should I be cultivating relationships with so that they can help me tell them? And what can I offer them in return? How do I work with them to make sure that I give them what they need to feed so as as I'm feeding my machine, they're feeding their machine and we're working together. Journalists love that, and I say that because I am one.

0:21:29
And you know nothing. Nothing jazzes me more than when. You know someone comes to me and says, hey, look, yeah, let's partner up on this, you know will get a really great story out of it and everyone will be happy and you know to me that is why I'm in this business because you know that when someone watches it or listens to it or reads it, their life will be improved because of it. If you can partner with people outside in that and you can encourage your people to do that that build those skills, you will be far more successful than any communication department. Just firing stuff over the

3 - 0:22:01
wall and hoping it sticks great. So brand journalism when you're trying to tell stories from an organizational point of view. You've got lots of platforms available to you. Come when we see you on CTV News are you? Are you telling that story in a repurposed way on other platforms? You know that's it's a great question, and in many cases I am.

0:22:18
So,

1 - 0:22:20
for example, whenever I appear on something or a winner, if I published somewhere, I of course make sure to cross-post it to, you know, the platforms that I think are relevant. I don't spend a huge amount of time doing it because I'm still a one person. So I don't have a lot of time to engage in that, but if you for example see me on television, rest assured that I probably tweeted about it in the lead up to it, and that's what probably generated the interest in this story. I probably DMS, the reporter, or the reporter DM to me, and we had a fulsome conversation about it. I probably picked something up on LinkedIn that that sort of sparked my interest in this theme, and then I probably wrote something about it and emailed it around to a few people to see what they thought or posted it to Facebook and you asked for some. Some opinions so that I could help develop it even further so you know there's no one rule for for all of this, but it's there. Are multiple tools available to you all in your pocket, and it's up to you to kind of use them in a creative way to connect with people in ways that move stories forward, and then hopefully once the story is done, expose it to an even larger audience who may have missed the six or the 11:00 O'clock news.

0:23:23
But you know, follow you on Twitter so you know that they'll be interested in it, and then maybe they'll give you an idea for something else going forward so you keep the conversation going 'cause. I don't see it as a you know. Oh, I got hit, that's awesome, you know got a really great interview and it's you know it's it's how did that narrative play out over time? Did I get multiple hits? Did I tell the story in multiple channels so that a wider audience was able to take advantage of it?

0:23:46
That's one of the keys to success.

3 - 0:23:54
And I appreciate you were mentioning sort of some of the ways that people think that their journalists, but they're not. So it may be a little bit of a reverse take on that. I was going to ask you about tips and I will, in a second, beyond what you what you shared. But what do you see out there where people are trying and it's not working? Is there any other elements that people should try

1 - 0:24:14
to avoid? I guess yeah, I mean, you know sincerity is everything, not just in this business, but in every business. And I think especially because social media has become so pervasive, we as consumers. We're all consumers have become really good at, you know, being able to tell when someone is being sincere on whatever channel it is that we're on, and so you know. Journalists particularly value that sincerity. They don't have time to sift through everything else, they just want. And I, you know, when I was, you know, when I was a daily practicing journalist, I I, always I. I thought of things in terms of my top 20.

0:24:40
Who are the 20 people that I can pick from that I can call and get something without you know, run around that. They won't push me to the end of the day, they won't. You know, make me hold my breath. They'll give me exactly what I need and we can have a lovely conversation in the process. And here I am like, 30 years later after I started in this business.

0:25:01
And some of these top 20s, a lot of them are originally from Montreal where I'm from, but I'm still in contact with and they are some of my best friends and so I think that sincerity plays out. Don't look at it in terms of a story. Look at it in terms of people that you know and trust and and and that you love their work and that their work, their work inspires you, to, you know, raise your own game and if you cultivate. Those relationships with those people, the good work follows and I find I'm a better journalist on a better storyteller and a better communicator because I've aligned myself with these people and I've allowed myself the time. The luxury of of time, and a lifetime to develop these relationships with them.

0:25:36
And then just good things spill out of that. So it's great

-1 - 0:25:41
that

3 - 0:25:42
you have the relationships with the professionals and the people that you deal with, but when you put your face out there and you put your name on it as opposed to just maybe more of a generic news story, you're out there to be. Interacted with, be it social media or the fact that your name is on national news channels, any war stories, or, you know, cautionary tales around kind of sticking your neck out there too far and and realizing that you're probably going to have to spend some time quelling criticisms or feedback or whatever. Anything in that realm to share with people who are maybe a little bit to uninitiated in this realm. Well, it's true for the

1 - 0:26:23
matter is this. Business is not for the thin skin. You've got to build a thick skin and you've got to be willing to take it as well as give it and so you know I've been slammed for my opinionated nature. I've been told I'm, you know, a whole bunch of things I can't say here, but I think you have to just accept that that's part of the business they need, but you can't be afraid to draw a line in the sand and say, you know, this is my opinion and a lot of the journalism that I practice is opinion-based. Journalism is based on my background as an expert in technology so I do have to state certain things that some people may not agree with. And I'm perfectly OK with that, and I've gotten personal calls at all hours. Today night from people who you know very vocally disagreed with me.

0:26:59
That's a risk of the industry. I always worry about that I worry about. You know, being singled out, you know, for my background, as a Jewish Canadian journalist, and I've had individuals go after me for that, but I'm not going to stop doing what I do or being who I am because I'm worried about that. You sort of have to recognize that it comes with the territory that the tools as they open us up to greater opportunity. They also open us up to being contacted by others, and sometimes there's a bit of a dark side to that, but I wouldn't change anything because the upside is certainly greater than the downside and you just have to prepare yourself for it and expect it and just respond with kindness and grace whenever it does happen.

0:27:38
I don't I. I don't go postal on people in social media. I've seen way too many peoples brands compromised. Because of that. I might use humor to dispel it, but I certainly don't, you know, go crazy, and I certainly know that at some point where I feel that I'm being threatened, I just, you know, cut him off and block him and that's the end of that. So you know this is the age we live in, but you know, I wouldn't be able to do what I do without all of these tools.

0:27:59
With a little bit of openness, I'll deal with that.

3 - 0:28:06
Well, those are things that we like to talk about a lot on this show authenticity and professionalism and certainly you. You embody those so well and I think that's at least a part of the key of your success. Coming to the end of our time here, but just want to circle back, you've given us some great insights here and some very particular approaches which are appreciated for you sharing, but anything else again, for our corporate communicator audience specifically, if you're kind of put a bowl on this a little bit. Uh, people who aren't involved in this right now? What's it going to take for them to kind of incorporate this into what they're doing if they're not already doing it and you know, do you see? Should they see value in putting that effort forward?

0:28:47
I think

1 - 0:28:51
you know the first thing is, you know, we all need to be idea generation engines. You know humans are at our core, a creative species. We all have stories to tell, and if you want to be a truly great communicator, you have to, you know. Know what stories that it is that you tell best, and so constantly be in that idea generation mode and encourage your people to do that and then work with them to understand what are the networks that we exist within one of the networks that we should be building out. And how do we cultivate those relationships that will be most beneficial to our ability to tell the story when we want to.

0:29:22
How are we using social media in creative human ways that we're not just pumping stuff out, but we're having real conversations? With people it isn't always about. You know, publishing something and then sharing a URL and saying that's enough. I'm done it. Sometimes it's about engaging in discussion in a Twitter thread or in a Facebook group or a LinkedIn group about something that matters to your community.

0:29:42
So you know storytelling, themes, channels, and ultimately building those connections that make people want to come back to you. It works in media, but it also works in life and you know, to me that's it's. It's a. It's a recipe for career success, but it's also a recipe for life success. Two and I think corporate communications needs to think that way, and some of the best corporate communications departments are the most human and that doesn't happen by accident. And I think if we re Orient ourselves around that ideal will do a much better job of telling stories that resonate that are remembered and that ultimately changed the communities around them for the better.

3 - 0:30:28
Well, again, great themes that we talked about here all the time and thanks for sort of a fortifying those relatability bringing human face, human touch, human understanding to what's going on. The fact that you do it on the technical beat, you know, sort of even more. More so reinforces that. It really. I don't know of anybody who listens to you and goes.

0:30:44
What did he just talk about? It's more like, oh, I never knew that and now I know more about it. And now I feel maybe more comfortable or more empowered to be able to use. You know the device that's sitting in my pocket, right? So

1 - 0:31:02
that's the Holy Grail, absolutely. Why do this

2 - 0:31:05
car me? Also, maybe

3 - 0:31:06
to take the time here in the summer to grant us this wisdom and these insights? And as always, really appreciate your time. Love to maybe have you back. And when you have the time because there's other topics that we talked about here that I'd love to uncover. But really, great value here for our corporate communicators especially, but I think as you always do when people see you in the general media. Just great information and we're so, so grateful that you shared

2 - 0:31:34
it with us. It

1 - 0:31:35
has been an honor being here with your teeth and I will come back anytime you want. You're just wonderful to speak to and this is a

2 - 0:31:43
wonderful opportunity. I really want to thank Army for all that he shared in that discussion. It might be well worth it to mark and save this episode, especially if you're currently developing a brand journalism strategy, which we will endeavor to examine in greater detail on an upcoming episode. We'll try to find the best person we can to talk about it. If you have someone who you think would make a great guest here on Speaking of media, let us know and we'll try to track them down and be sure to tell your colleagues about this space because the more engagement we build here, the more valuable this effort really is for our entire comms community. In the meantime, please keep listening as you have been in ever greater numbers. Thank you. Wherever you are listening to your podcasts, I hope that you are staying safe this summer as we slowly begin to emerge from the global pandemic.

0:32:22
But until next time, thanks for taking the time to listen to this summer session. The podcast and I look forward to the next time when we're together when once again will be Speaking of media.