Transcript:
31 min read (6025 Words)
1 - 0:00:00
CBC has to be different. It has to look different. It has to sound different and it has to act differently. If it doesn't, then why are the Canadian public spending more than a billion dollars a year on it? It's a legitimate question.
2 - 0:00:15
Peter Mansbridge worked at the CBC for more than 50 years, including a long run as the television networks chief correspondent and lead news anchor. Until his departure in 2017. To this day, he remains passionate about the public broadcaster and maintains a deep respect for the journalists there. Although he has his own thoughts about what was not working for him at the network, HI again, and welcome to season 2 of Speaking of media. The podcast where communicators and the media come together to consider the world of mass storytelling.
2 - 0:00:39
I'm Keith Marnoch, former journalist turned corporate communicator and as a communicator I invite you to join me to learn from industry experts from both sides of the media microphone about how to effectively share your stories and messages and who better fits that mold than Peter Mansbridge. In this episode he offers candid thoughts on journalism and broadcasting, as well as how to communicate a story in the ever evolving media landscape. His latest book is out. It chronicles his career, which has pretty much a broad basis to ask him just about. Anything related to current affairs over the past 50 years.
2 - 0:01:17
With some good give and take, we recently had this great conversation. Here's how it went. Alright,
3 - 0:01:27
well, it's a great pleasure to welcome someone who needs very little introduction to Canadians who've been keeping up with current affairs for the last 30 or 40 years. It's a great pleasure to welcome to the program. Former CDC chief correspondent and news anchor and also a guy who you can keep up to date with news on his current podcast. The bridge from his Home Office in Stratford ON Mr Peter Mansbridge, Hi, Peter, and welcome.
1 - 0:01:51
Keith, it's great to talk to you
3 - 0:01:53
Peter. I received a very nice Christmas gift for my brother this year and it happens to be your latest book off the record and I can certainly recommend that highly to my audience. I can tell you that I enjoyed reading it. I did read it and I assume you wrote it to make reference to one of the stories you told about Margaret Thatcher. In it, you know, as I was reading the book and perhaps with the exception of the pandemic, I realize that it's been a sort of a long time since we've had an opportunity to really galvanized. Around a story as Canadians, either you know a triumph or a tragedy.
3 - 0:02:24
What in your mind makes a great Canadian story?
1 - 0:02:31
Well, there are. There are many. They tell you know great Canadian stories, touch all the different emotions they you know. Touch, sadness, joy. Heartache heartbreak our history? There's so many different great stories to tell. You know, hearing what you suggested at the beginning, that they you know it's this has been one of the few that we've been able to galvanise around because of the pandemic.
1 - 0:02:53
But you know, and I'm not sure I agree with that, I think there are many. There are many great Canadian stories that I can you know, name just from the you know, time. I was in the business and and in fact since I've left the business, you know, in in terms of doing the national every night there. You know, great Canadian stories are the ones we determine to make great stories and and in our in the way we tell those stories, I mean the whole nature of the relationship with between indigenous and non indigenous people. So which keeps coming to the forefront and in terms of the Canadian story is one we shouldn't let go of and one that we owe our citizens the right to do to explain that story is.
1 - 0:03:44
As well as we can from all perspectives. So I mean, I, I don't think there's there's any lack of stories to tell out there.
3 - 0:03:55
When I think of the Canadian perspective, maybe it's easier to reveal, you know, Canadiana when you're out in the world, and you certainly had plenty of experiences that you detailed in your book internationally. Did you maybe get opportunities that you know, maybe American counterparts or or others internationally didn't get a shot at because you were Canadian?
1 - 0:04:15
I think so. I think that that's fair to say. I mean and yeah, my American counterparts are covering a country that's a superpower and they tend to look inward a lot. We tend to look outward. You know, we see the world is a big place where we can have a contribution. But then we can learn from as well. One of the things about traveling the world and trying to understand the different agendas that are out there is that you end up learning a lot about yourself and about your own country. From the way others react to it.
1 - 0:04:45
And I think that was a big eye opener for me. We tend to as Canadians. I think at times not to be grateful enough for the country we have. And when you're travel the world, you certainly see reason why we should be because others don't have the the same benefits that we have and they know it. And and they talk about it.
1 - 0:05:08
And I I saw that a lot in my in my international travels and still do you know, I I think that's all a part of the story making business too. And the storytelling business is ensuring that we tell stories that talk about the difficulties we have as a country, but also focus a lot on the the great things about about the country.
3 - 0:05:32
I love your story about being discovered. I've heard I've heard it many times before about being a baggage handler in Churchill, Manitoba. I can tell you that I started my journalism career in Dauphin, Manitoba and you're where you are and I am where I am. Maybe that's the IT factor that you refer to in your book, but
1 - 0:05:49
great. Often was like going to New York. When you look at Churchill, Dauphin with the the Big City and one of the big cities in the South. So you had all kinds of benefits. Being a dolphin that I'd never had in Churchill, I can tell you that.
3 - 0:06:05
Anyhow, you've gone through your career. You've had great successes and so on. You could have remained comfortable in Stratford, done what you wanted to. You could have golfed in Cruden Bay, a place where I've actually been your love for golf in the book is awesome, but what is it that drives you to continue to do your documentaries? Your podcast on a regular basis? Sharing and analyzing news? What is it essentially that drives you to keep wanting to do this?
1 - 0:06:31
Well, when I retired from the national. I never thought at that time that I was done. You know, like I was ready for a rocking chair on a on a porch somewhere. I always thought there were there were gonna be more challenges ahead and more things to do. I never realized it would be as much as I'm doing. You know at some point I you know I I will slow down, but when you're kind of writing books, doing a daily podcast, doing documentaries, hour long documentaries with the CBC, sitting on a number of boards, lecturing at at the Munk School at U of T.
1 - 0:07:07
There's a, there's a lot of stuff there, but I find it you know, in spite of the fact there's a lot of stuff, I do it at my pace. And the way I want to do it, and that's being the the beauty of this sort of post. CBC life. I was a CBC for 50 years. Don't regret a day of it.
1 - 0:07:28
The CBC was great for me. And gave me all kinds of opportunities. Obviously from the start when you mentioned how I started and where I ended up. So obviously there were a lot of opportunities there along the way. But you know it was ingrained in me from a very early age that if you were going to be interested in what?
1 - 0:07:45
Goes on around you and to tell stories about what goes on around you. You should you gotta focus on that daily and and I still do. I mean I. It's not like I chase fire engines anymore, but I hear them and I think about what they mean. And I want to find out what the why they happen, but I you know, I I love the work it's it's all comes kind of naturally to me, an inquisitive mind of which many of us have right.
3 - 0:08:22
Absolutely yeah. So we share a love of sports and unfortunately the Leafs too. But I bring that up because I want to talk a little bit about the mission of the public broadcaster. And I know that back in the day when you know when you were in the middle of it all, I understood and now have a better sense from your book that you didn't appreciate being sort of second fiddle for two months during the NHL playoffs. Was that a great example of money over mission when it came to the CBC?
1 - 0:08:55
As far as I'm concerned it was. I mean I, I'm glad you pointed out that I am a sports fan and and I love hockey. You know, I'm a season ticket holder for the leaf so you know I've suffered along with them for for a long time. But I think the CBC, you know is the national public broadcaster at a time when there was no competition to broadcast hockey. I get it, but there is now and the CBC allows. You know two months of it's scheduled to be taken up by by hockey, and I'm talking about during the playoffs where it bounces the national all around.
1 - 0:09:27
If it if it even gets on, it's on some nights and I just think that's obscene. You know it, it just it makes no sense at all for the national public broadcaster of whom it's number. One reason for being is news and current affairs. It's also very important for you know various cultural aspects of of its broadcasting agenda, but it shouldn't come at the expense of sports, especially when the CBC doesn't make a dime out of hockey anymore. They gave it away. Well, this way, and somebody else got the rights, but they give the air time away and in return they get to, you know, run promos and commercials for their some of their programming, but they don't make any money on it and it's.
1 - 0:10:18
You know, I, I find it all very. I'm very unfortunate, but I fought that battle for a long time when I was at the CBC. I had some victories on that front, but not a lot and it's got a lot worse since I left. I mean, we're we're heading to the Olympics soon here in China. And just like last year in Japan.
1 - 0:10:42
It will totally bounce the national off the air on this main network of the CBC won't even be on the air, which is ridiculous. They say, well, it's OK. It's going to be on news network. Well sure it is on news network and it does. News network does get an audience, a smaller much smaller audience, but it's also not the public broadcaster.
1 - 0:11:02
The CBC main network is. The news network is a commercial network just like all the other ones. I just think that's a bad a bad corporate decision, but as I said, I've you know, I've fought that battle for years and I didn't win so
3 - 0:11:19
you don't have to anymore. So even seeing the money you spent on even the rights for the Olympics must have drove you wild and thinking about how you could spend that money differently when it came to current affairs. But you do profile the Olympics in your book, the work that you did with Brian Williams, and so on. Fascinating to hear those stories, I guess. Always the opening and closing ceremonies are out time when you can kind of talk about it. You know the world coming together and sort of the the effect that the Olympics has on the world?
3 - 0:11:42
What's your sense of where the Olympics are going? Is that going to sustain through our lifetime? The IOC certainly has lost its shine, especially with the pandemic. And you know, the games coming up again? What's your sense of the Olympics moving forward?
1 - 0:12:03
You know, I hope some form of the Olympics is always with us. 'cause it is one of those great world gathering moments and you know, in the athletes who take part in it, you know aren't aren't the political leaders who tend to fight over you know any number of different issues on a constant basis. But the athletes are there to to perform as well as they can in the challenge of their lifetimes. And it's fun to watch. So I've never felt anything negative towards the the Olympics. From that sense, I do think that just like everything else, things are changing. The landscape of television has changed considerably, and and journalism is facing its various challenges, and the Olympics will too.
1 - 0:12:51
From from drugs to to the power of money in the Olympic movement, to the constant changing of the basic sporting. Venues that take place. All these things are challenges and not only to the heart of what the Olympic movement is supposed to be about, but also to the challenge of trying to make enough money to pay for these extraordinary expensive games that take place every couple of years.
3 - 0:13:21
Just before we got off sort of the CBC mission story, how do you view the coverage of the pandemic and from a public broadcaster POV? Is there a sense that obviously you need to be critiquing the government and leaders in this kind of situation? But is there sort of a sense of not to the point of being a state broadcaster, but that you need to be part of the channel or mechanism for getting the word out on how this is operating and what citizens responsibilities are in such a situation?
1 - 0:13:54
Don't take this personally, but I find that insulting that anybody would even think that way. Because we're journalists, you know we're not flunkies and toadies who work for whatever governments in power. It's a public broadcaster. It doesn't mean it's owned by the party in power or the government in power. It's owned by the people of Canada. And that's where the duty is to.
1 - 0:14:15
Especially in terms of news and current affairs. So you're you know you're you're challenging assumptions whether they're being made by the party in power or the party in opposition, you're doing your, your, your business of trying to inform the public of the issues of the day so you know there was one time in the history, the. The modern history of the CBC and that was 1970 during the Quebec crisis, where the government. Basically played the CBC on the way it wanted to in terms of forcing it to do certain things on air, and that was a terrible moment. I mean, I was a very junior member of CBC News at that time and I had, you know, I wasn't involved.
1 - 0:15:06
I was at a. I was still in Churchill, but the reverberations of of that moment lasted a long time, and the leadership has been determined ever since, that they would never allow anything like that to happen again. And certainly during my time. It it never did, so you know there's a challenge in front of all journalists during, uh, this pandemic, as there have been in other big issues. To tell the truth. To be.
1 - 0:15:35
As much as you can at head of the story in informing Canadians of what's going on and it's no different now than it's than it's ever been or is on any other story.
3 - 0:15:52
Just a devil's advocate question to allow you to iterate that, so I appreciate that. So let's talk about political power. The Prime Minister's I loved your chapters on John Turner and on John Krejci, and I'm going to sort of focus on Brian Mulroney, so he was notorious for being the great Networker when he came onto the scene, and I think beyond that, and I've actually heard individuals relate anecdotes to me where he would reach out and sort of do these grand personal gestures experience that you relate in the book is when he won the. Leadership where there are other times when Mulroney sort of surprised you and was maybe different than his public persona in a very personal way.
1 - 0:16:31
Yeah, listen me, you know I. I covered Mulroney for a long time and I still have conversations with him today. We've done a couple of events together but all our times together haven't all been. Cordial, we've crossed swords more than a few times on on on different issues. Whether it was, you know, Airbus or free trade or Mitch Lake or you name it there, there been lots of times, but you know, I I found him one way personally and another way, especially during his time in office, where he seemed to be a very different person. Who you were. You were sitting across from in an interview.
1 - 0:17:10
Then you would be if the cameras weren't rolling. And that's unfortunate with anybody. And you know, to some extent there are a lot of people who you end up interviewing with, not just in politics who are like that. They put on a a certain air for the interview situation, which isn't necessarily their natural air, but you know he's a. He's an incredibly engaging guy. I mean, that's when he won, why he won, the biggest majority in the history of the country in 84 and one another majority four years later, which there are very few.
1 - 0:17:46
Politicians in our country who've won back to back majorities. He's one of them now. He got basically run out of town. After that, second majority and and it's taken him. You know, a long time for a variety of different reasons to build his reputation back, but it's back on a lot of levels, and he's regarded as, you know, as one of the country's great prime ministers.
3 - 0:18:16
So covering politics so much has changed on Parliament Hill, especially those who are covering it. And I you know I have to tip my hat to CBC and other outlets, you know diversity is coming and we're seeing new faces and people with different backgrounds starting to cover Parliament Hill and reflecting it back to Canadians. It's been a long time since you know. You and. You know, Messrs Halten and Stewart and Newman and Moskovitz work were covering the hill.
3 - 0:18:37
Do you believe that you know, in respect to those guys, mostly older white guys? Do you believe that different faces bring different perspectives to the political story in the country?
1 - 0:18:55
Sure, absolutely. I mean, even with us white guys, when I when I came in to Ottawa Bureau in 1976 you know I was 28 years old. The different perspective than was even though we were all white and we were all male. The different perspective was we were a new wave of young guys myself and Mark Phillips and John Blackstone. And you know there were there were a bunch of us back then. Even Duffy we were all you know young and we broke the mold of the sort of older white guy who was on the hill.
1 - 0:19:23
You know, until we became the older white guys. So, but since then I mean so much has changed the first of all, it was the number of women who came into the the business and and not just in front of the camera but behind the camera and in the management of the place to the point now where I mean I don't know the actual numbers, but I would. I would suggest that there are more women in positions of power the CBC in the news section, current affairs section, then there than there are men. But it's moved more than just. Obviously men and women. There's a much better reflection.
1 - 0:20:10
Still not enough in my view, but a much better reflection of, you know, the true nature of the country, that when you walk into a newsroom at the CBC these days, it looks more like the country you're living in. Than it did even a few years ago. I I'd like to see that same kind of reflection in management and at the senior positions and the CBC then exists now, but it's heading. As you said it, you know it's heading in that direction and the change has been substantial over the last 50 years. The last you know in terms of gender, the last 20 years in terms of diversity beyond gender.
3 - 0:20:59
We spoke to Kevin Newman in a previous episode and we were talking about the networks, the news networks in States and he refers to them as opinion networks, not so much news networks. You know you chose to stay in Canada when you had the choice. You must feel like that was a great. That was a great choice. And a great story in your book about the generosity between Knowlton, Nash and yourself when push came to shove to decide whether or not you're going to stay in the country.
1 - 0:21:27
Yeah, I mean. Just to back up a bit, I I don't. I'm not sure what the Kevin said to you and Kevin's, a friend I. I wouldn't agree that. You know some of the cable news operations are definitely opinion, primarily in the evening, not during the daytime, but primarily in the evening when the when the bigger audiences exists, and they've determined, I guess, rightly or wrongly, that you'll get bigger audiences with strongly worded opinion. But you should probably stop calling it a news channel at night. Just call it during the day.
1 - 0:22:00
Main networks are still, you know, Pretty rock solid in terms of their journalism. For the you know the the evening newscast at 6:30 in the States and some of their you know major current affairs programs would be wrong to call them opinion. I I'm very comfortable with the decision I made and that's no knock on the American networks or on the people who who chose to go to the States and worked there for a year or two, or as in Kevin's case or or longer. As there have been many different colleagues over the years have done that. But you know, I'm comfortable with the decision I made because the CBC is unlike anything else.
1 - 0:22:42
You know it, it's not a private network it it should not have those kind of constraints on it. And I I say that carefully at the private do in terms of money, but the. And the time it affords to doing longer form journalism is really important, and if that's not what we do and if and if even when we do it, it's not seen as special. Then it makes the argument for the CBC even harder to make. CBC has to be different.
1 - 0:23:24
It has to look different. It has to sound different and it has to act differently. If it doesn't, then why are the Canadian public spending more than a billion dollars a year on it? It's a legitimate question, absolutely.
3 - 0:23:40
I loved your reference to Jeffrey Simpson and his thoughts around sort of bullshit over brains. How important is it? And it continues to be, I think, because you do it with the likes of Sean Talley, bear and so on. How important is it to complement what broadcast journalists are doing with print journalists? Is that a necessity when it comes to analyzing news in a broadcast environment?
1 - 0:24:04
Well, you know. There's obviously room in the business of journalism for opinion, and print has always had that. That that ability to have opinion makers and opinion leaders in their columnist and they separate Daily News from their columnist and Chantelle, who I've known for you know, 30 years is is one of the best, if not the best political commentator in the country. And so I've always wanted. To have the ability to to be able to talk to her and and I still do today because she's a weekly guest on my on my podcast and it, you know, it's great to to have her, but. It's really important to understand that there has to be this dividing line between news and opinion, and that's usually the dividing line between news and current affairs and the old days of.
1 - 0:25:00
You know the national and the journal 40 years ago now the national was the news and when the national ended at 22 minutes after the hour and the journal started, it was more likely to be opinion or point of view pieces. And that was fine. There was a dividing line. You understood it. It's when the two start to kind of crowd each other.
1 - 0:25:26
And and news becomes more opinion driven. That you that I think you're failing your audience. People aren't stupid. They don't need to be told what to do and they would like to make up their own minds about you. Know that that's the structure of doing a newscast.
1 - 0:25:45
You given the facts, just the facts and and let them decide for themselves. And then they can be influenced by listening to others opinions. And that's fine. But that's separated from the actual news.
3 - 0:26:03
I wanted to get a little bit of a flavor for what you're offering in your book, so. The whole idea around what it used to be sort of show pressures and it may have changed over the years. I can remember when I went to Ryerson the late Stuart McLean was my instructor and mentor and he graciously sent me up to watch the national get put together. A few times I I sat on the desk and watched your friend Mark Bulldogs put it together. It was fascinating to see and you relate some great stories about sort of last minute Ness and the way that you operated. And then we look at today's national.
3 - 0:26:31
How do you feel about being replaced by multiple people as opposed to sort of carrying on as CTV? Was done with sort of a lead correspondent as sort of the face of the news.
1 - 0:26:45
Yeah, I I have. You know I have divided opinions on that. You know, first of all, all the people who are, you know, I'm still a huge fan of the the journalists of the CBC. All of them. So some are still, you know, a good friends of mine. I'm more of a traditionalist I I've never been a fan of multiple hosts. I've never seen it work ever on a network level.
1 - 0:27:10
It works locally. But at the network level, you've got to go back to, you know, Huntley Brinkley in the 60s, and you know it wasn't the leading newscast of its day. But ever since then, every time they've tried to do, you know even two hosts it hasn't worked. ABC tried 3 hosts at one point in the in the 80s. That didn't work. They're all single host again.
1 - 0:27:39
Now as you go around the world and look at some of the great newscasts and public broadcaster newscasts. And they're single host and you know, I've always felt that was the best way to go on a network newscast. 'cause people will look for a certain degree of continuity and they build up a trust. Factor with one anchor. But as I said, I'm a traditionalist and maybe I'm just from the old school.
1 - 0:28:10
I know that all networks, including the CBC, are trying to figure out what the landscape is going to be in the news business, and it's tough to determine that because there everybody suffered some degree of audience loss because simply the world is expanded and people use different tools to gather their information. I mean, young people. They're not watching television like we used to watch television. They're all on their phones. That's where the game their information.
1 - 0:28:40
That's where they gain a lot of the the crap that's out there too. But still, it's a challenging time, and so I have sympathy for, you know, network executives and and news leaders who are trying to determine what's the best way to move forward. In this new age, and it's not easy, and it's especially not easy at a time when you you make a transition when you go from, you know, one person who's been there for a long time and has a certain relationship with the audience to suddenly they're gone and they're replaced by one person or a number of people and you have to, you know you have to kind of build your audience again and in television you can lose an audience overnight. It can take years to get it back again.
3 - 0:29:33
My sense is that you know, Adrienne Arsenault does really well in the field and she's an awesome war and and you know international correspondent. It's, you know, is she still good that she's
1 - 0:29:44
the best she could be working anywhere in the world. She's she's a terrific journalist and I'm a huge fan of hers. Have been since she used to be when she was first hired and was working in the The Newsroom in Toronto. She used to bring the copy into me when I was sitting at the. At the news desk at the national, so I mean, she's been around a long time. She knows a lot of stuff and she's a great writer, great storyteller, terrific journalist.
3 - 0:30:15
So one question I'll ask just that you've been generous with your time. I just kind of want to maybe wrap up with that. I often ask the question of guests who have the experience and maybe your experience now is evolving as you're into these new platforms and so on. But advice around young people trying to still get into the kind of work that you do when they're being told that journalism school maybe is or isn't worth your while or whatever, and maybe you don't need journalism school, you know you were able to. Find a niche and find a way to build your career in a spectacular way. But what kinds of things do you tell people when they're asking you about the possibilities of storytelling in this sort of new world?
1 - 0:30:56
Well, there's always going to be a need for storytellers and good storytellers and and you get the best training and understanding by going to a good journalism school and searching out the best you know. Professors, instructors, teachers. That's where you're going to get the ground floor of the training you need, and I wish I'd had that. I I didn't I now I was in a different time. I mean, journalism schools weren't a big deal in the 60s.
1 - 0:31:23
That really started post Watergate when everybody wanted to be a journalist. All of a sudden. And the reason I got the job when I started out of the baggage handling business was 'cause nobody else wanted it. Like literally nobody else wanted it, and they offered it to me 'cause they liked the sound of my voice. And that's how I started.
1 - 0:31:47
And then I had to buy myself layer on an understanding of what the business is really all about. And how to do it? And I used to sit there for hours every day on my own time listening to shortwave radio, listening to the way other people did it, not copying them, but just trying to understand how they went about interviews, how they went about editing, how they went about, announcing how they went about, storytelling. So I kind of forced a transparency on their part. By listening to them. Of how they do their work.
1 - 0:32:23
And it's one of the challenges for journalism today. At a time when there's decreasing credibility between the journalists and their audience. Is to be more transparent about how we do our work. You know how we decide, what's news and what isn't. All of the things, all of the questions that people have about news in today's world.
1 - 0:32:43
And there are many questions about how we do our work. We have to be able to answer up front and directly. We're going to be in in serious trouble in the years to come.
3 - 0:33:02
Well, transparency and storytelling are a big part of what we talk about here on this podcast, and I just want to thank you for being fascinating to me and to your audiences over the years and allowing us to peer into your professional world as you saw it. It was a great read, and I certainly like, I say, recommend. Your book will put a reference up there for where people can reach your podcast, and we'll tell them where they can buy the book if they want. And thanks again Peter for taking the time and sharing your stories with us.
1 - 0:33:30
Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure talking
2 - 0:33:32
to you. And so there you have a great discussion that could have gone on for many more minutes, if not hours, at least from my standpoint, there was so much to try to cover with Peter, but certainly you've got a great taste for what his book is about, which I will say is really filled with some great and often very funny stories set against the backdrop of Canadian and international news and current events. Perhaps Peter is no longer at the CBC simply because he wants to be his own boss, and who can really blame him as he points out, he's busier now than he ever has been before. He's still a news hound and he hasn't lost his edge. His podcast the bridge allows him to carry on with hardly a blip as he presents and analyzes the news of the day. He also has a great love for the north, which has served as a basis for many of his documentaries that he continues to produce.
2 - 0:34:14
I do recommend his book off the record. Please see the links to it as well as his podcast in the show notes. We have more great guests already lined up for this season and I really can't wait to share those conversations with you. So please subscribe to Speaking of media through Spotify, Apple or Amazon or wherever you download and listen to your favorite podcasts and be sure to tell others who might enjoy it as well. Hopefully you'll like and comment on the show through our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter feeds, as well as on my LinkedIn page where you will hear about upcoming episodes.
2 - 0:34:46
All those actions build our community. And put us in a better position to create relevant content. Secure great guests like Peter Mansbridge and ultimately reach a broader audience on a weekly basis. Hey, thanks for listening. I'm Keith Marnoch and I look forward to our next time together when once again we will be Speaking of media.