Speaking of Media ....with Keith Marnoch
Insights for Communicators, Interesting for All. 'Speaking of Media' – the Podcast that brings together communicators and the media to consider and critique the world of mass storytelling, hosted by former journalist turned corporate communicator, Keith Marnoch. If you are a communicator - or perhaps someone who speaks on behalf of your organization - 'Speaking of Media' allows you to learn from experts on both sides of the media microphone. The Podcast aims to highlight effective ways to widely share your positive stories and messages, and also – perhaps more importantly - how to avoid getting caught in a negative media storm. Visit www.SpeakingofMedia.com
Speaking of Media ....with Keith Marnoch
Reta Ismail: From Beta Cams to Backpacks. How 'digital' transformed Local News
The digital revolution hasn't just changed how we consume news—it's fundamentally transformed how journalists produce it. CTV London reporter Reta Ismail takes us behind the scenes of modern local journalism, revealing a landscape where speed and versatility have become essential professional skills.
Remember when TV reporters travelled with camera operators and returned to studios to edit their stories? That world is rapidly disappearing. Today's video journalists carry their entire production studio in a backpack, conducting interviews, shooting footage, and editing complete packages from their vehicles. This evolution offers greater flexibility and editorial control but comes amid significant workforce reductions that have eliminated weekend newscasts and diminished specialized coverage like local sports.
The relationship between social media and traditional news has become increasingly complex. While platforms provide crucial distribution channels, they've also created an environment where journalists compete not just with each other but with anyone carrying a smartphone. "We're fighting against anybody on the street who has an iPhone," Reta explains, describing how breaking news often appears on social media before professional journalists can arrive on scene.
Perhaps most concerning is the changing dynamic between news sources and reporters. Organizations and politicians increasingly bypass traditional media interviews by issuing prepared statements or using their own channels to communicate directly with the public. This shift diminishes accountability while allowing complete message control.
Despite these challenges, Reta remains optimistic about journalism's future as she teaches the next generation at Fanshawe College. The industry isn't dying—it's evolving. The human connection between journalists and their communities can never be replaced by technology, no matter how sophisticated. As Reta passionately argues, "The connections I make with the community, the way I tell the stories, you can't replace that with a robot."
Join us for this illuminating conversation about the present and future of local journalism in a rapidly changing media landscape.
So today on the podcast we are talking about local news and how we find and access news especially close to home, which is becoming more and more of an issue, I think, or at least it's changing in the way that we are able to find local news. So that's why I'm so pleased that we were able to land another of my local news faves to the podcast. Rita Ismail is a seasoned journalist who spent a fair bit of time in the greater Toronto area Golden Horseshoe area honing her craft before making her way to London. She also teaches media law and newscasting at Fanshawe College here in London, ontario, and beyond that, I can just sort of attest to the fact that Rita has a real commitment to the local community out all the time. She's a stranger to absolutely no one in the London and Middlesex region, so anyhow, we value her time and welcome to the show, rita. Thanks for being with us.
Reta Ismail:Well, thank you so much for having me and for that lovely introduction. Keith, that's really kind of you. Every time somebody reads something out about my career this year I'm like, wow, it's been that long right. Yeah, it a minute and pause. So thank you. I'm excited to be on the on the podcast.
Keith Marnoch:Every time I see you out in public I like you, maybe in a different way, but I listen to see how they introduce you and whether it's been, whether it's been taken off an old web page or if they actually know you or whatever. But that's the. I guess that's the ups and downs of emceeing and being a face in the community. You have to kind of take it as you get it, you got it. So we're here talking about local news today. So we've had a couple of episodes lately talking about the bigger media landscape but local and hyper-local news and how that is really, I guess, not morphing but evolving, and how, in some respects, cutbacks or changes in terms of the investments in local news, but just generally, when people have different ways of accessing news, where that's coming from and how people are receiving it. From your perspective, you know, working in TV, ctv London, what has changed, what have been sort of the most tangible changes you've seen I know there's lots, you know in the newsroom in the last 10 years.
Reta Ismail:Oh, it would for sure be. We're heavy on leading with web, right? So a decade ago, when I started here in London, we didn't have as strong of a web presence, and in the last 10 years it has gone completely in the opposite direction. And we also used to hold stories back in the day, right, Like you wanted to have an exclusive for six o'clock. We're now we're more, we're encouraged to get our story up as soon as possible. We want to be on there on our website before 1 pm. So definitely moving more online and on any platform that we're still able to post on, so, whether it be X or LinkedIn, or I mean again Facebook and Instagram. That's been a difficult and I'm sure we'll talk about that, but it's all getting your stories out there. There is no keeping it to 6pm Because things have changed right. People are consuming their news much different than they used to 10 or 20 years ago.
Keith Marnoch:And then I guess, speaking about workforce, you tend to not go with anybody to stories anymore, like you may have used to, and you don't have to go back to the station to do your editing. So what are the, what are the benefits and sort of drawbacks of that?
Reta Ismail:You know that. Yeah, so it's. It's funny because that you would think that's one of the things that I've had to adjust to, but I've only ever known it to be this way. So when I started in London, I was a videographer right from the get-go 10 years ago. But I know, when I worked in Toronto, I was an assignment editor and we had 30 cameramen and they would go out and they'd work with our reporters and the reporter essentially didn't edit anything, didn't shoot anything, and they just were responsible for, you know, conducting the interview and then writing their story, where I've only ever noted in the last 10 years that you are a one person shop. So from the minute I get my story, I do the interview, I set up the interviews, I conduct the interviews, I go out and shoot my B roll, I edit my entire story. I write my entire story for web, which is, of course, different than for broadcast television or even radio, when we have the state radio station, and then you edit your entire story for six o'clock. So it is a lot more work as a video journalist, um, because you are doing everything yourself.
Reta Ismail:So that is 100, one of the big changes, too, from what people used to think, and oftentimes they'll show up somewhere and they're like, oh, where's your camera person? And I'm like we don. Oftentimes I'll show up somewhere and they're like, oh, where's your camera person? And I'm like we don't have camera people anymore, right? And they're surprised that I carry everything in my backpack and I can literally, in the same spot, do the entire story and have the ability to gather, b-roll or obtain stock footage from my laptop, publish my story, and that, to me, is incredible, albeit.
Reta Ismail:We've lost so many incredible people in positions like editors and camera people that were just sort of, you know, videographers in their own sense. But in the same, in the same way that you mentioned, it does have its perks because I do get more control of my story in terms of editorially. Does have its perks because I do get more control of my story in terms of editorially, visually and time management, right, so I work on my own schedule. I have a deadline, but I can sort of work it according to my needs and the interviewee's needs. So, yeah, that's a big change too, for sure.
Keith Marnoch:Yeah, I mean, I just I'm trying to struggle to think because the other thing and there's we've had a couple of references to me way, way, way back in the day when I would look a camera around Midwestern Ontario like in a hockey bag full of stuff. But the one thing about that and you know, maybe you know in near, near years, when you walk in with a big camera into like a meeting or something, it kind of is your intro card, right, or it's your greeting card when you walk in there and it brings a little bit of gravitas to who you are. Do you miss that? Or is that something you notice when you basically walk in with, like, maybe an iPhone, or I know you guys use something a little bit bigger than that, but not much bigger than that, right.
Reta Ismail:Well, we still use Sony video cameras. Mine is the smaller version, but my colleagues have like a sort of an in-between my size and those big beta cams. But funny, you ask? Because last week I was this past week actually I was over at the airport filming the Black Hawk helicopter that had landed at our international airport and Toronto media had shown up and ironically, one of them was my former colleague, pete, who I worked with at City News, and they still had the big betas, which was wild. But they're not betas anymore, I shouldn't say that.
Reta Ismail:But the big honky cameras, they're on a different format, by all means. But I felt a little bit of that. I was like, oh man, this doesn't. This makes me look so amateur compared to all of their big cameras. But if you're familiar with the industry, you don't really need the big camera. It's just that it goes with that notion that, ooh, it looks more professional or the media is here. But I tell you, I have seen video shot on the latest iPhone and it just trumps all of those other cameras with the ability that they have now. So I actually think a great change that could be made, to be honest with you, is if more organizations invested in that format Because, again, with that iPhone and the storage capacity, you can do everything on something that's maybe max $2,000 as opposed to $10,000. So, looking at cost savings, there's a great way to do it. But do people take you seriously? I don't know.
Keith Marnoch:And then you're literally editing on the road. Right, You're in your car today. We appreciate you. Yeah, Like so, like you, you're like a, you're like a police officer on the side of the road, kind're in your car today. We appreciate you. Like, yeah, like so, like you, you're like a. You're like a police officer on the side of the road, kind of like doing your your new thing. What's that like like? Is that, is that tricky, or is it? Is it pretty straightforward, or?
Reta Ismail:so initially, initially, keith, I'm not gonna lie I was extremely overwhelmed when we made the switch over to ipads. We used to edit off ipads. Now we're on two laptops and we use Final Cut Pro and it's extremely professional. I love it, but I was extremely scared. I was like, how do I not have a desktop? Like throughout the entire pandemic, I was still working in office and I know a lot of my colleagues had already transferred over to editing from home, working from home. And to me, even though I'm young, I still felt overwhelmed by the fact that, like everything can be essentially done from your car.
Reta Ismail:But I can tell you it is the biggest gift because I do have more flexibility, right, I can meet deadlines faster and it does give you that ability that you can complete an entire story. I can even cut B-roll, even though my six o'clock report might not be ready. What we try to practice is we'll cut B-roll even though my six o'clock report might not be ready. What we try to practice is we'll cut B-roll the minute I film a fire or an accident or whatever it may be, publish it to our we call it gateway, and then our website picks it up. So the immediacy of the technology is incredible. Once you get used to doing it and I've absolutely loved it and I've adapted to it I don't think I could ever go back to another format, right Like in office, all the time. I think the flexibility is unmeasurable really.
Keith Marnoch:Is there any effect on your editorial slant when you know that you're not waiting till six, that you're kind of doing it in the moment? Is there any different approach when you know that it's basically waiting till six, that you're kind of doing it in the moment? Is there any any different approach when? When you know that it's basically going to be available immediately?
Reta Ismail:I don't know if there's a different approach, I know. I think the thing is we're fighting against not just other media outlets anymore, keith, we're fighting against you know, not just other media outlets anymore, keith. We're fighting against, you know, anybody on the street who has an iPhone, right, and that viz that I shot of that fire is already on somebody's Facebook and the London Neighborhood Crime website or Facebook page, right. So I think that, being competitive, as a person who is competitive, I love being able to get it on our website first. So in terms of the technicality around it, it doesn't make a difference. Once you learn the editing software, I can cut an entire report in 30 minutes just because I've become so good at doing it right. Initially you're a little slower, but our quality is not diminished If that's sort of a way to answer that question and actually we're giving you more faster.
Keith Marnoch:Right, yeah, I guess one of the big things, one of the big things, one of an obvious change in local news, certainly in Canada and across the CTV network, is the removal of sports right.
Keith Marnoch:So if you want your sports, you go to TSN. Are there other things that have kind of changed in a very particular foundational way in the last couple of years? And I'm really wondering about stories that you aren't able to cover or things that you're feeling too limited on. Are there gaps with the way things are sort of set up now that you kind of just accept the fact that you're feeling too limited on? Are there gaps with the way things are sort of set up now that you kind of just accept the fact that you either don't have the people, power or resources to be able to cover all the things you want to do?
Reta Ismail:I think so. With the sports one. I just want to quickly touch on that. That was a huge loss, right? People weren't tuning in to CTV London know big major NBA and NHL scores. They were tuning in to see that college team. They were tuning in to see that high school competition, right, like I think there was so much value in it. So it has been a big loss for sure. I know, with us here at CTV, we just recently started up a new segment that Brent's doing, where we sort of do a weekly recap of all the sports. It's been great. So we're finding ways to give people that content that has been removed due to, like you know, manpower uh is, uh, you know what there's. There is stuff that we can't get to. Um, I'm trying to think off the top of my head what would be a great example of that.
Keith Marnoch:Uh, yeah, I'm not trying to stump you, but uh, but, but it's different, right?
Reta Ismail:Yeah, for sure, and it, it, you're absolutely right. There is that unfortunate side effect of all the cutbacks we just don't have enough people to cover, especially weekends. Right, we used to have a show on weekends and we don't have a weekend newscast. We have one reporter who works on the weekend. So it's ironic because news and life doesn't stop on the weekend. So if there's events happening and oftentimes they are happening on weekends we simply can't get to them because, you know, our weekend reporter works nine to five and if it happens at 7 PM we miss it. So that aspect is really it is sad because we used to. We used to show up everywhere. We were a part of the community a lot more. There are definitely stories on days where you're like I wish I had more people to cover all of these stories, but I can't give you a specific example of something, but I know there is.
Keith Marnoch:And it's changed for sure, right. So we're talking with Rita Ismail from CTV London. We are coming to you from the Digital Creative Arts Centre at the Boys and Girls Club in London, Ontario, Canada. So, going a little bit further down the road of social media and the impact that it has on being able to sort of be the traditional or the legacy media locally, like you say, like if you're at a fire or a breaking news event, Like if you're at a. If you're at a fire or a breaking news event, there is often an immediate reaction locally. You know, if, if there's a large fire or something, things get shared really quickly. Again, is there? Is there much difference? Or are you, you know, thinking differently when you know that you're going to try to get your story done immediately, that that you wouldn't maybe have done in the past?
Reta Ismail:Yeah, For sure there's the higher sense of urgency, because it is sort of like a 24-hour news channel. Right, your website is constantly updating with new material and because people are always on their phone using social media to that benefit, redirecting traffic to your website is massive. It's like I can't emphasize that is massive. It's like I can't emphasize that I go out, as you mentioned earlier, to so many events or even if I'm at the grocery store and I get recognized, oftentimes the demographic is 55 and over because the younger crew, they just don't watch news in the traditional format. They're not sitting around at six o'clock waiting to consume your newscast. So if I am arriving at a fire at 11 a know, 11 am, I'm going to ensure that that gets on our website immediately and then, using my own personal account, I'll direct you to go there.
Reta Ismail:But in terms of you know the ban, that is sort of meta-imposed. We've really felt that impact because we used to put a lot of our breaking new stuff on there and then we would direct the traffic to our website. So that has impacted us because, again, people will show up and they'll post things. So the best thing we can do is ensure I cut something, I send it to our web and it gets thrown out there as soon as possible so that people who do have our CTV News app and they do get the notifications, it'll pop up right. So you'll pop into it, you'll see it. It's working around the new ways that social media sort of owns information. It sounds weird to put it that way, but it really does. It's not traditional six o'clock news, it's get on some sort of virtual platform so people can watch what you've produced.
Keith Marnoch:And in recent episodes we've talked about how it was kind of take it or leave it. We'll be on at six o'clock. You meet us there. Now it's you know, the tables have turned a little bit and you're trying to obviously identify your audience and you're trying to not cater to it but understand the realities of what's available to people and how you sort of meet them where they're looking for things. Is that an accurate thing to say?
Reta Ismail:um, yes, I think so. Uh, I feel like it depends. It's always it's different. I think that comes down to essentially producers, because I've worked with different producers and some of the six o'clock newscast. By then everything is old news, right? So, in terms of content, no, I don't. I'm not sure I know how to answer this question.
Keith Marnoch:Well, like one aspect I was I was curious about is like have have we lost on a hyper local or local level? Have we lost the ability to sort of have media outlets act as boosters for the community or connect to the community? I know on your channel you know weather sort of incorporates activities or things that are going on out in the community. Oh, in the community, yes.
Reta Ismail:But you know, has that, oh, in the community?
Keith Marnoch:Yeah, yes, but you know, has that? Has the show, you know the on-screen show, when you kind of piece all these stories that anybody can access as they become available, has that show approach changed at all? I mean, like, when you think about sort of strategically setting up a show, my days back at City TV, you know, one of the first things I learned is now I know why weather is put in the show where it is, to keep people interested right. And trying to do that explained to me by a mentor because every kid and their every kid and their brother wants to go home and see themselves on television and that's a way to feed that right. They can get the information however. So, but just like sort of piecing together a show must be to a degree, to a degree different, I guess, and I guess we've kind of harped on this a little bit, but I just it's just really changed, right.
Reta Ismail:So no, no, no, I appreciate you sort of clarifying that. Yes, it is mainly due to the staffing reduction because we also rely heavily on other affiliate stations now. So we pull content from CTV Kitchener, windsor, toronto. We all are a big family and we sort of it's like a potluck of a newscast, right? Whereas probably back in the day you had, you know, 10 reporters and you had cameramen and women who could go out and film for you, so your hour long show was hyper local.
Reta Ismail:Now, in terms of editorially, we are still a local newscast. We try our best that every single reporter is doing a local story, because that is our contribution to the newscast. I'm not going to give you a story that has zero relevance to London and the region. However, because we don't have that many people, it just seems like there isn't that hyperlocal angle to it. And then we rely also now on like. We have these other positions that contribute to our newscast.
Reta Ismail:So, absolutely, it has changed, because even something as having somebody live on location, as you mentioned, we used to have live eyes, which is what, like cameramen and women who were specifically assigned to do that, and we no longer have that ability we have. We have new roles that can do those jobs, but they are also doing other jobs as well. So it's a. It's a hundred percent different in terms of that, but it doesn't come from an editorial position in terms of we don't want to be there or don't want to cover it. If there's a story that's local, you're going to guarantee that it is on our newscast, and the first block of our show is usually local stories unless there's something major happening. Right right, I hope that answered it.
Keith Marnoch:Yeah, absolutely. Here in Ontario we're currently in a provincial election and I think that that's another place where things have changed right In terms of what you're able to do and, as a result, how you go about trying to cover that. So I don't know if there's shows, I don't know if you guys are having shows like debates and stuff like that beyond the news, but how do you feel like, how do you feel you can cover even in a, you know, a relatively definable city like London? How do you feel like you can get around, cover different candidates, different writings, do it fairly, do it thoroughly? What's your mindset when you look at an election now, knowing what the new landscape of media is?
Reta Ismail:Great question. Of course, what we used to know in terms of the lead up to the election day is completely different. We used to do all these profiles right Specific candidates, actually all candidates. We would try and get the entire pool of candidates for that region involved, but in terms of the date of the election it's all hands on deck. We will have all our reporters there. It does look completely different than what it did 10 or 15 or 20 years ago Because again I go back to manpower we don't have the abilities to be live at six different candidate headquarter partiespower.
Reta Ismail:We don't have the abilities to be live at, you know, six different candidate headquarter parties. We just don't. So we have to select, be very selective in terms of who's the biggest upset or who's the biggest winner, and kind of go with the flow, like we will definitely have our own newscast that night, but we will have leading into it, you know, a national newscast, and then we might even join. I remember the last election that I covered two years ago. I was on the desk with CTV Windsor. We did a joint newscast for an hour and covered the entire Southwestern region. So it has definitely changed and been impacted for sure.
Keith Marnoch:And I in a broader sense, and again back to some of the conversations you've had in the last few episodes that we've done the impact on democracy. You know it's maybe pretty particular here but, like you know, people who don't want to be kind of challenged can kind of lay in the weeds a little bit more, unless you're kind of going after them to find them. It pretty easy, I think, from the other side of the uh camera for politicians to kind of not not be seen or hide away, you know, in when they're right, like there's just not as much um bandwidth to do it right yes, yes, and you know another thing on this topic that is sort of we've.
Reta Ismail:It's not in our control is? I don't know if this was a result of the pandemic, but a lot of people, including politicians, now send statements, keith, and refuse to give you an on-camera interview because they can easily take their cell phone, set up a tripod and get their message out there without the media. Right, and that's not just a just a politician thing. We see it with big organizations across the city. Their ability to control their messaging is grand, in my opinion. Back in the day, you sort of relied on the news to get your story out or your point of view. Now you can control that and you can do the messaging yourself. So I find that has happened a lot. I recently did a story. I tried to get all of the candidates in the story and I never even heard from one of them. Yet I saw that that candidate was posting the entire day and had seen my message on Instagram. So there's no accountability, I feel, to the media, to anybody, and that's shifted and changed, I would say, in the last six years and obviously the climate and our political climate here and across the border.
Reta Ismail:Having worked during the pandemic. I'm going on a little bit of a rant, but you've reminded me how people's opinion of the news and people providing you the news has changed drastically, something that we deal with on a daily basis. I'll be in a marked cruiser and I'll have somebody shout vulgarities at me just because they see ctv across the side. That's not everybody. That is very like a small minority of people, but unfortunately it is a reality of today's society and how people view the media. I put using quotes, air quotes. I know this is podcasting, but I'm using air quotes how they use the media when we are literally a local news station just getting you your local news Right.
Keith Marnoch:They're often applying. I think we've talked about again we've talked about bigger networks that are now one-dimensional in terms of agenda and bias or approach let's call it to be thing For sure, that really and we know that. That really can't. That really is much less of a factor locally.
Reta Ismail:Yes, oh, yes, for sure. That's the thing I get really passionate about this, because I just want people to understand and know we are just a group of local reporters and everyone that works at CTV news not biased, not politically on either side of the spectrum. We do not have a hidden agenda to get you news that you don't want. There is none of that. But unfortunately, because of what's happened stateside and there are like CNN and Fox and NBC and ABC, you can watch those and you can get that sense of they lean a specific way, but in terms of local news, that's not how we operate. Yet we're all sort of painted with the same brush. Right, right, they lean a specific way, but in terms of local news, that's not how we operate. Yet we're all sort of painted with the same brush, right, right, I try to. Sorry, keith, give me one sec. I am just going to do something. I didn't bring my charger, so I'm going to actually take the video off, is that okay?
Keith Marnoch:Yeah, that's fine yeah. I'm just going to do a couple more questions anyway, so that's fine, okay.
Reta Ismail:I'm just going to put me on yeah, that's fine, I'm just going to put it on charge.
Keith Marnoch:We do do a video version of this, but it doesn't get posted right away and we'll just work around that. That's not a problem.
Reta Ismail:Down here, and that way we stay together.
Keith Marnoch:Cool, what was I saying? Oh, I lost my track of thought here. So okay, so no bias, so cut here Big, long break. So, in terms of you know, I'm trying to think of the last time that I recognized that there was a media scrum in London. I feel like journalists now are kind of working in their own corners, which is good or bad, or but, or maybe different, but maybe only at City Hall, where you get is, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. Are you going to be in an environment where you've got sort of multiple, multiple journalists at the same story at the same time? Because we talked again recently we talked about this in a in an episode where media scrums or media conferences are different animals than straight-up interviews or receiving statements, which is just not great. But it can spur other considerations, or one reporter's question might tip off another reporter to ask another question. Are you finding that you basically oh sorry, we lost you here. Hey, are you there?
Keith Marnoch:Hey, Keith Can you hear me, I can hear you again, yep I am so sorry about that no all good. Are you good now?
Reta Ismail:I think so yeah.
Keith Marnoch:Okay. Okay, that's good, because I kind of didn't. I didn't go into my next question as smoothly as I wanted to, so, anyhow, we'll start back. We'll start back here. Just a couple more questions and then we'll be good, no problem. So one aspect that I'm curious about is that I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a media scrum or a media wolf in terms of going out and doing stories, because one of the things we talk about here is the effect that media scrums or media conferences may have on how a story gets reported. One reporter hears something that they maybe weren't aware of and it sort of feeds their question and it can make the story grow. Again, I'm thinking like city hall type stories is where this most often happens. But are you finding that you're basically out there doing your own stories in a bubble, but sort of on your own, in a way that you didn't maybe used to?
Reta Ismail:Yes, I think so. I definitely notice a lack of media scrums and media availability. I find a lot of organizations, or whatever they might be set up, more of a one-on-one opportunity. When they do make someone available, they're less likely to go the route of putting someone in front of you and allowing the media to all talk at once. However, I do know when I show up at Bigger Stories, we do have the free press there. We'll have CBC, we'll have people from Western University and Fanshawe, which is great, just in terms of media scrums. I feel like it's more controlled environment and that's not on our end.
Keith Marnoch:Right. Are you seeing any bloggers or sort of individual basement newsrooms showing up to these places? Do you ever see that at all?
Reta Ismail:No, not on. I haven't noticed that. Um, no, I do notice students, but I again, we're open to that. That's wonderful. I love that there's still students wanting to do this, so, but not no, no, independence okay so, but you, you do have access to students.
Keith Marnoch:You, you teach um, uh, newscasting at fanshaw. What you know in terms of what you're seeing moving forward, what is your experience in a classroom bringing out, that you're maybe kind of realizing is coming through. You're trying to impress upon the students, obviously, certain learning, but what are you seeing as being sort of a new reality out of what you're getting back from your students? Where are we headed in terms of newscasting if that's the vocation that those students are actually going to get into?
Reta Ismail:Great question. So this is my first time teaching. I just started in January and right off the bat, I wanted to let the students know not to listen to the naysayers, and by that I mean you know, you hear a lot of people saying you know the news is dying and there's no jobs in this and there's no this, and I mean, to an extent it could be true, but I've always said that that's not how it's happening. It's just shifting. It's shifting from your traditional format and moving to more of an online format, right? So I try and encourage the students that what they're going to learn and take away from this course are skills that they can translate or transfer to another career easily.
Reta Ismail:It's a lot of you know, intense in front of people, you know communications and just especially media law like that could be applied in so many different areas of your life. So I try and be more positive. I do notice, you know, just like any other programs, keith, some kids take classes that they sort of just felt like they needed to be in school for. But there is those ones that are so eager and excited and to me that's the biggest reward because, again, you think I've been doing this for 20 years and I graduated, you know, 21, 22 years ago, and I was so young when I got into it and my passion and drive was unbelievable. Like my, I loved the news, but today, the way kids are consuming the news is completely different, like TikTok and Facebook and Instagram, right.
Keith Marnoch:So kids like us yeah.
Reta Ismail:Yeah, I know, kids like us, I mean. I mean they consume, at least you and I. I hope you're tuning into six o'clock newscast, but we still watch news in some sort of capacity, yeah, whereas they don't even have cable.
Reta Ismail:And that's one of the biggest excuses I get is I don't have cable and I'm like it doesn't matter. Our newscast goes online. You can find all our reports online. Like there is a space for it, and I truly, genuinely believe that. But unfortunately it always comes down to the dollars and cents, keith. And a good example of that is I went back to talk to my Mohawk College. I was an alumni of distinction, extremely proud of that. But when I went to talk to them, they asked like you know, you get a bursary and you get to donate it back to a student in a program, and I said, oh, I'd love to give it back to a student in journalism. Do you know what they said to me?
Reta Ismail:oh, broke my heart not happening no, they shut down the program last year and I know that that's happened over at a number of Canadian colleges and unfortunately, like you know, I hope it doesn't happen, uh, here in London because we have a great program in the facility. I don't know if you've had a chance to go over to the broadcasting area.
Keith Marnoch:Absolutely At.
Reta Ismail:Fanshawe.
Keith Marnoch:Yes, absolutely.
Reta Ismail:It's wonderful and so much money was invested in it and I think there is place. There is. This is a perfect example podcasting, you know, having a number of different websites and there's so many ways you can learn and grow as a journalist. It doesn't have to necessarily mean the six or 11 o'clock newscast, and that's what I sort of try and teach them, like to give them heart, that they're going to be able to use this, whether it's a news or another part of another industry.
Keith Marnoch:Well, first of all, I do listen to this, I do watch the six o'clock cast, but I am getting it from the other sources as well as a multiple. I'm not sitting at home waiting for it, but I am consuming it. But no, that's fair. But yeah, to be fair, I was in journalism school much earlier than you were and I still had that mindset. I wasn't sure if I was going to do journalism for the long haul.
Keith Marnoch:It turns out that I had a couple of really cool experiences but then did move on and the work that I did do there was transferable back in the day. And I think it's even more so now because I think organizations rely to a certain extent to be able to be their own broadcaster or their own news source, right? Yes, it may only get to their own stakeholders In some instances they're able to sort of translate or express that beyond that group. But I think having a strong communication function within any kind of organization is well-served by a journalist or someone who has that kind of mindset, right? So yeah, I would agree.
Reta Ismail:Absolutely yeah, and you are a perfect example of that. Right, like you, you did it all and and you know, I think, the deadlines, the multitasking, the ability to work with different personalities, the list goes on and on. Just having lived it myself, I feel like anyone should be lucky to have a journalist switch careers and work for them. I know another thing. I know I'm taking too long, but another point that I find I make to them often is the fear of artificial intelligence and using AI. And they're like you know, will it even be relevant? And I know that is a huge scare, not just in our industry but a lot of industries. And here's what I always say and I might be sounding too fluff, but it's not real humans. And, at the end of the day, what I always say and I might be sounding too fluff, but it's not real humans. And, at the end of the day, what I do, the connections I make with the community, the way I tell the stories, you can't replace that with a robot. Sure, you could turn my tv copy into a web version using AI, by all means, but is it going to be the same in terms of when I give you a report? No, and, at the end of the day, I think people are sort of starting to realize that there is AI and you can work with it by all means. It is extremely beneficial.
Reta Ismail:However, there are specific roles done by people that you just can't replace with a robot. That's just my opinion. I mean, fast forward five years and I'm replaced by a robot. I totally get it, but at this point in my life, I just want to encourage the young kids that are in the program that you still have a place. You can figure it out, even if they decide to become influencers. Keith, the rules apply, especially in media law, to anybody. They're an influencer and they broadcast something, and it breaks something as simple as the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Right, you need to know specific things in every capacity of your life and you learn those by being a journalist. In my opinion, Love it.
Keith Marnoch:Yeah, that's great. Well, I'm sure we could keep talking for quite some time. I want to respect your time and thank you for it.
Reta Ismail:Your could.
Keith Marnoch:It's your passion and your energy is palpable and it's great that you know you find the time beyond your pretty grueling job pretty grueling, grueling job to be able to give back and to teach and to pass that on to future journalists oh thank you, it's great, I mean, your savvy is one thing. Your Thank you, it's great, I mean your savvy is one thing, your humanity is another thing, when we talk about AI and other things like that. It's great that you're in the mix here in London and that you're influencing people moving forward.
Reta Ismail:You're so kind, thank you. I really do appreciate it. And, keith, you and I have known each other for a long time. Remember the first time we met Yep, I came to Western I think it was at the time and we interviewed and you were so kind and I really appreciate it. That's. This is an example of a connection I made with someone I interviewed and it's been what eight years now.
Keith Marnoch:Right, yeah, something like that.
Reta Ismail:I don't even remember.
Keith Marnoch:For sure, yeah, so, yeah. So you know, there's still relations out there, right? There's still people to connect with and it sources or other things that you know, and when it's and when it's ongoing and you know in your face a lot, it really it can develop to to more of a connection, which I certainly appreciate. So it's great so.
Reta Ismail:For sure. And one more thing I wanted to say I'm so sorry. No, you're like Rita, stop it. No. Another thing that I've found is you've seen me do it a couple of times, but when I go out in public and I host events or I MC and we fundraise and we raise, you know, incredible amounts of money for charities here in London. Like that is a skill that I obtained being a journalist. Right, and to think that there is still space for that right. People still want you to come out and host their event and raise the money and do all of that. Like artificial intelligence isn't going to replace humans. So take what you can while you're still doing this career and then try and find new ways to expand it for your future. That's it. Love it, I'm done. Well, said no, that's amazing.
Keith Marnoch:That's it. Love it, I'm done, well said. No, that's amazing, that's great. So all right. Well, thank you so much, rita. Well, we got to find time to maybe get you back on the on the show at some point, but for now, this will. This will have a good shelf life, some really great, really great insights on quite a few aspects of. Well, we were trying to be local today and I think that we did a good job of trying to think, you know, have people understand at least some of the challenges and some of the realities of being able to bring stories locally to a local audience. And it definitely has changed and people will have seen some of the tangible differences through the way that you're presenting stories. But there's even more to it, as you kind of explained today. So, thanks again so much for joining us and we look forward to continuing to watch you on CTV in London and keep up the great work over at Fanshawe as well. Thanks so much.
Reta Ismail:Thank you so much for having me, Keith.
Keith Marnoch:And so it's interesting to hear how technology and industry cutbacks have actually changed the way that local news is presented by traditional media, in this case, television media. Rita Ismail is a reporter for CTV News London, and she's also an assistant professor of media law and newscasting at Fanshawe College in London, ontario. Thanks for joining us for this edition, and I look forward to the next time when we're together, when, once again, we will be speaking of media.
