EP37: Dream Therapy

**Dream therapy is an approach to using dreams for healing and not a scientific replacement for professional medical counseling. Please seek a mental health professional if necessary *** '
 
Melissa is a dream teacher who studied with Robert Moss in the school of active dreaming. She is a dream therapist, teaching people to interpret their own dreams, learn their dream language, and use their dreams for deeper healing. She also has a podcast called the dream hub!

Links
Dream World Linktree

Dream Hub Website

The Dream Hub Podcast

Dream Hub Instagram 

Transcript

00:00:01:02 - 00:00:20:24
Speaker 1
A series of unfortunate events has occurred here on the Dream World podcast. Really, it's not that serious. My website is just down and by down I mean it's been hacked and totally erased, which I'm quite sad about, but that's what I get for trying to build my own website with no experience. Not that anyone uses my website anyway, but in the event that you do my main links are way more useful anyway.

00:00:21:00 - 00:00:40:03
Speaker 1
Spotify, Apple, pretty much every podcast platform I'm on Tik Tok, Instagram, YouTube, you name it. I'm pretty deep in the lucid dreaming community because really part of what I do and what I love is to connect with others who love dream work as much as I do. Which really brings me to today's guest, who's another amazing honor, not a friend that I've made.

00:00:40:09 - 00:00:51:15
Speaker 1
Melissa's focus is using your dreams in a therapeutic way, interpreting them and understanding how to apply it to your life. I'll let her tell you more about her journey.

00:00:51:15 - 00:01:12:06
Speaker 2
Well, it's been a kind of a mixed bag, but it's sort of like dreaming has always been something I was meant to do, but I never really realized that I would just have some dream that was so strong that I'd end up, like, emotionally acting from them, but not really understanding the power of dreams. Like, you know, acting.

00:01:12:06 - 00:01:36:02
Speaker 2
That's how people usually get involved in dreaming is that they just go, Well, I had this crazy dream and it really emotionally moved me and I can't get it out of my head. And so then I started acting on them and then I got pregnant. And then I started having crazy dreams like, but a lot of nightmares was and I ended up having like a lot of insomnia and it was like a really terrible time until I became pregnant the second time.

00:01:36:02 - 00:01:56:19
Speaker 2
And then the dream started again. And I thought, no, I'm not going to allow this this time. So I started researching it and I started learning about lucid dreaming. And then I had my first lucid dreaming Like that was it. I was obsessed and it just felt so empowering to me. Yeah, that really just made me just drop everything and delve into the dream world.

00:01:57:21 - 00:02:02:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's awesome. What was your first lucid dream like? You had it while you were pregnant.

00:02:02:07 - 00:02:18:24
Speaker 2
Is that. Yeah. Yeah, I was pregnant. I had this girl come up to me and she was like, trying to fight me. And that was what made me realize it was a dream. Because in real life, people aren't coming out just trying to randomly fights and everything. So I was like, Hang on, this is a dream that means that I could win.

00:02:18:24 - 00:02:38:16
Speaker 2
Because in dreams, when people would try to fight me, I would have like the jelly arms or like, really heavy and you can't punch. It's like really pathetic. And I was like, Oh, no, I'm going to lose another fight again tonight. And then I thought, No, this is a dream. I can do it. And I like. And in my dream I was pregnant because I was pregnant in real life.

00:02:39:12 - 00:02:56:13
Speaker 2
I crouched down and I, like protected my little pregnant belly. And then I, like, spun and did like this flying ninja cake and the dream character, like Woo flew into the wall on the other side of the room. So that was pretty cool. And I like, woke up like, Oh my God, victory is mine. And I was like, running around the house.

00:02:56:13 - 00:02:57:05
Speaker 2
Like, Wow.

00:02:57:18 - 00:03:02:09
Speaker 1
That's awesome. Yeah. After that moment, it's never the same when you have your first lucid dream.

00:03:02:14 - 00:03:02:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:03:03:04 - 00:03:16:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. I had my first lucid dream as a child. I've been lucid dreaming since I was really young, so it was always kind of normal to me. I didn't even know like there was a term for it until, like high school and later on. But it's always fascinated me. It's so many possibilities.

00:03:16:19 - 00:03:36:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, it's been really helpful for me and my daughters because now the first baby, she's three and a half, so she's telling me about her dreams in the mornings now. And when she started having nightmares, I was kind of like, Oh, this is cool. I guess that's her with lucid dreaming because kids are so much more natural at it than we are.

00:03:36:13 - 00:03:59:21
Speaker 2
We talked about it like a scary monster. She has a wand and she says like, abracadabra, turn into a kitten or like whatever she wants to play with or Yeah, or she kind of, yeah, shows them love as well. I learned that from Robert Wagner. He wrote to me on Facebook. I was like writing about this nightmare I'd had, and I was able to become lucid, but I ended up like, fighting this demon.

00:03:59:21 - 00:04:07:17
Speaker 2
And he's like, You don't have to fight them. Like, show them love. And I was like, What That was that was really tiring fighting demons.

00:04:07:17 - 00:04:23:12
Speaker 1
But yeah, that's awesome. That's such a good way to approach nightmares is fighting love and with love and like embracing it because it's really thought responsive, you know? So that's a great thing, especially for kids who have so many, like nightmares and nightmares. Like that's such a good skill to learn at a young age.

00:04:24:03 - 00:04:47:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. The other thing that I was teaching her is that when a nightmare happens, it's just like a movie. And you know how when you're watching a movie and in the middle, there's always something scary that happens because that's what makes the storyline exciting. So I was like, Don't get scared and turn the movie off. You got to keep watching it until the end and then you see the happy ending and so Nasty Dark side as well, which is really helpful for us when she wakes up and tells us the whole movie story.

00:04:47:24 - 00:04:54:12
Speaker 1
That's awesome. So do you think she'll be able to, like, grow up like loving her dreams and just being really, like, in touch with it? That's so awesome.

00:04:54:18 - 00:05:05:06
Speaker 2
Like that already. Dad's like, we have a dream journal for her and she comes to me in the morning and we write it down together and she hasn't had dreams. She nights in a row. She's like, Well, I haven't had any dreams.

00:05:05:22 - 00:05:29:01
Speaker 1
That's going to be me as a parent. I'm so excited. One day I'm going to like this. I talk about Dream Mom, that's up to you. That's awesome. Yeah, I've always loved kids and I've been fascinated by pregnancy dreams. Every time I have a friend that's pregnant, I'm like, Tell me about your dreams. Like, because, you know, like I had a friend who she couldn't decide what she wanted to name her baby, so she, like, asked her baby in the dream like what his name was going to be and stuff like that.

00:05:29:01 - 00:05:39:06
Speaker 2
Amazing. I've actually heard the babies food can choose their own names and that they often come through to pregnant moms saying what their names are meant to be. All thing. Yeah.

00:05:39:22 - 00:05:47:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's so cool. I like that. I believe it too. It's quite interesting. Like just the fact that, like, your dreams change when you get pregnant. I wonder why.

00:05:47:24 - 00:05:56:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, it kind of feels like. Like if you took all the dream heads at once and then went to sleep, it's like, really?

00:05:56:05 - 00:05:58:07
Speaker 1
Like they were more vivid or like they're.

00:05:58:08 - 00:06:16:18
Speaker 2
Really more vivid. They're really scary. I think it's just because when you're pregnant, you're going through like a whole rebirth of yourself as well. So then all of these, like, underlying fears and stuff starts to come to the surface because it's not only you that you have to think about now, it's someone else that's a part of you.

00:06:16:18 - 00:06:20:00
Speaker 2
So it just really like, wakes up all these fears.

00:06:21:02 - 00:06:34:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Like, so now that you are a dreamer and you're quite experienced and lucid dreaming, like, what do you do within your lucid dreams? Do you have, like, dream goals or do you just like, have fun or like, I'm sure it changes all the time, but what have you been working on lately?

00:06:34:21 - 00:06:58:23
Speaker 2
And like enjoying all the time lately? I really love, like, healing dreams, so I'll kind of set my intention like, I want to get a massage tonight or like, I'm going to go to a resort and just, like, love that, like when my recent baby is really little, I would, like, go to sleep and be like, when I go in my dream, I'm going to get to go to sleep for even longer.

00:06:58:23 - 00:07:05:10
Speaker 2
And I would like have like naps inside of dreams to, like, catch up on sleep to, like, more well-rested.

00:07:05:11 - 00:07:08:04
Speaker 1
Well, that's kind of a good idea. Sleeping within the dream.

00:07:08:17 - 00:07:09:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:07:09:18 - 00:07:16:14
Speaker 1
And then when you go to sleep from a lucid dream, do you stay non lucid from there? Like you just go dreamless?

00:07:16:15 - 00:07:33:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I just like light out in my went to sleep. I was like in a dream and I was like, Hey, I'm in a nightclub. I don't want to be here. I'm too tired to be here. So I just go over to the chairs and lay down. That's cool. Lucid dreaming is amazing to me, but that's not really my name.

00:07:34:04 - 00:07:57:18
Speaker 2
What I really love is like using dreams, like so people can use it as their own therapy. So like, for me, I used to have a lot of mental health issues and I have been seeing psychologists and psychiatrists since I was 14 and being like on and off like different medications for ADHD and anxiety and like a whole range of things.

00:07:57:18 - 00:08:26:01
Speaker 2
And my therapy is helpful. Yes. And I always encourage it for everybody else. But that comes to a point sometimes. So when you've done so much therapy that you're like, whoa, you know, what else is there? Like, you know, I'm not really getting any better. And then I learn about interpreting the meaning behind my dreams. So, yes, like lucid dreaming was really empowering for me, but it was more just like a fun, like breaking free of limiting beliefs and then like having fun and testing boundaries.

00:08:26:11 - 00:08:46:17
Speaker 2
But for me, the part that I really love is learning your own dream languages. And I love getting to help people understand what their dreams mean. Because I have so many friends and I see so many other mothers that kind of lose who they are when they turn into a mother or like as you go through life, you know, you lose your sense of self.

00:08:47:00 - 00:09:04:08
Speaker 2
And I hear a lot of people saying like, I'm going to go overseas to find myself. Yeah, people are just like looking in different ways to find themselves, but they're looking external really, instead of internally. And then there's people that are like, Oh, my dreams are just boring, or I don't know what I mean that don't mean anything.

00:09:04:08 - 00:09:22:02
Speaker 2
And then they'll tell me their dreams and it's like, Oh, that means a lot. Like, let's figure the subject, though. I think you posted something on Instagram. When you're getting dreams that you don't understand, it's like being yelled at in a foreign language. Yeah, I like to help people learn their own language, but I don't feel that way anymore.

00:09:22:06 - 00:09:39:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, that's great. I love that you brought this up because it's awesome, you know, talking to people. There's so many little niches within the dream work community and like so many people talk about like, Oh, let me just Google what dreaming of a snake means. And you know, there's going to be so many different things online and it might not resonate.

00:09:39:23 - 00:09:55:02
Speaker 1
And there's no like, I hate those generic online dream dictionaries. So I tell people all the time about, you know, learning your personal dream language. So that's such a good thing to talk about on here is like the best way to learn your personal dream language. Like, how do you figure that out?

00:09:55:03 - 00:10:19:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, So to learn your dream languages, I usually will go first with feelings that I tried to say, like, okay, so when you were in that situation in the dream, what exact feelings did you feel? And I like to actually refer to the emotion wheel. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's got like the main emotions, like happy, sad, the generic in the middle and then it branches off and it gives you way more descriptive words.

00:10:19:09 - 00:10:38:13
Speaker 2
So you can really like pinpoint. Yeah, if you just Google emotion, well it will come up and I use that because it's really specific. And then you can think like, well, where else in my life does that feeling come up and could that be related? And then I look at like where you were in the dream, like what was the location?

00:10:38:13 - 00:10:55:02
Speaker 2
And you stop. Like, for example, someone says, Oh, we were in a field. And I said, Oh, well, what else is in the field? Oh, actually, now that I think about it, that was a few more people in the field. Oh, people were gathering around. Oh, that's right. It was a music festival. I'm like, okay, well, what does a music festival mean to you?

00:10:55:02 - 00:11:21:04
Speaker 2
Because like, oh, fun, carefree, like, no responsibilities. And then it's like, okay, cool. And then you can start relating that back to your life as well. I like to look at say you're dreaming of an object like this big red car came to me. So I say, Well, can you describe that? What's your first associations? And then if I were an alien, how would you describe to me what a red car is and what does it do?

00:11:21:10 - 00:11:41:17
Speaker 2
And you kind of go to pick it apart and look at it in different ways. Like I say, dreams are kind of like a game of charades where you have to guess from the clues. Yeah, Dreams can't just say to you, this is the message it has to show you, like, emotions and pitches, and then you have to use those emotions and pitches together with your own memories and associations to figure out what the message means.

00:11:41:23 - 00:12:08:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's awesome. I love how you ask questions in that way. Instead of saying like, Oh, this means this, you know, but instead you guide the dreamer, you know, to find their own answer just through clarifying questions. I'm assuming you've heard of Gael Delaney's dream interview method, which sounds kind of like, Oh wow. Well, it's kind of similar to that method, which is basically like, you can do it with yourself or with a partner, but it relies a lot on like breaking down the symbols in the dream.

00:12:08:19 - 00:12:23:16
Speaker 1
And like if I were to just tell you my dream, you know, you would just listen, take notes, and then you'll ask, clarifying questions like, okay, you mentioned that there was a guy in this dream, like, what was he wearing? Oh, you mentioned, you know, just clarifying questions just to bring as much out as possible. Like, oh, yeah, I forgot he was wearing this.

00:12:23:16 - 00:12:38:20
Speaker 1
Whatever. And then it's like the same thing she says to, you know, describe me this dream symbol as if I was an alien from Earth, from not from Earth. And I didn't know what it was. And then you start this free associate of thinking about this dream symbol. Like if you dream of a cat or a car, you know, it's never literal.

00:12:38:20 - 00:12:55:06
Speaker 1
But once the dreamer starts to like with that free association, they're like, Oh, well, now that I think about it, it reminds me of this in my life and so on. And, you know, you might dream of the president, but it might be representing your dad, not the president, you know, or how you feel like, you know, there's so many different ways and sometimes, you know, don't understand it right away.

00:12:55:08 - 00:12:58:09
Speaker 1
Take thinking about a dream and sitting on it. So yeah, that's really.

00:12:58:10 - 00:13:17:23
Speaker 2
How I find it also takes an outside perspective sometimes because I can have a dream myself and I'm like, I wonder what that dream meant. And I'll come downstairs and explain it to my partner. And he's like, Are you serious? It's so obvious. And he can tell the message because it's like, you know, there's parts of us that we don't want to see ourselves, so we're not willing to accept that.

00:13:17:23 - 00:13:39:19
Speaker 2
But from an outsider, it's like, Yeah, so dream sharing is really helpful and really important too for that aspect of things. But with my teachings, I was told by Robert Moss, We're really strong on not telling someone what their dreams mean. I can't sit here like you can tell me your dream, but I can't sit here and say, Oh, your dream means this because you're the only person that knows what it means.

00:13:40:02 - 00:13:53:04
Speaker 2
I can give you some ideas of like, an insight to what I think it might mean, but you're the only person who actually knows what it means. So there's just a lot of, like, questioning and guiding for the person to come to their own realizations.

00:13:53:04 - 00:14:11:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. I wish more people understood that because dream sharing is great. It's so powerful, like you said, especially with people close to you that really know you. But when it comes to like analyzing dream symbols, like if I dream of a snake, you know, like you can't tell me, Oh, that means anxiety. Because what if I love snakes and I have ten pet snakes and you hate snakes and you do?

00:14:11:13 - 00:14:27:20
Speaker 1
You're so scared of them. We're going to have totally different, like, subconscious associations of what a snake means. So, like, my dream, the way my subconscious is talking to me is going to use that as a positive symbol, whereas somebody else might be something totally different. And that varies across the world. So there's no way to like generalize it.

00:14:27:20 - 00:14:38:10
Speaker 1
I mean, maybe some symbols like might fit certain regions or certain families, you know, like there are some general things, but, you know, most of most of the time it's like a very personal association.

00:14:38:10 - 00:14:51:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Well, my client just the other day was dreaming of a snake. And to her, it actually represented transformation because of the snake shedding its skin. So. And it was great to her at all. It was really like she loved it so well.

00:14:51:06 - 00:15:04:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's where the feeling comes in, you know? It's like, How did you feel about the snake? You know, because I had somebody in clubhouse one time describing something, you know, like this horse shedding his skin, and he was all bones and flesh and somebody was like, Oh, you. And she was like, No, it was beautiful. I loved it.

00:15:04:08 - 00:15:16:06
Speaker 1
I felt great. You know, it's like it was something. It meant something to her. So. So yeah, it's it's really important to just let the dreamer, like, figure it out, but you can, like, guide them that way. So that's great. That's cool that you trained with Robert Moss. What was that like?

00:15:16:23 - 00:15:36:11
Speaker 2
Oh, I was fangirling pretty hard. So I was working in a really, like, dull and draining government job and I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do with my life. Anyway, this is when I was learning that dreaming and you can pose a question to your dreams. And so I lay down and I asked like, What should I do with my life?

00:15:36:15 - 00:15:44:18
Speaker 2
And I had this, like, booming voice come in that just said, Robert will know. It's like, Who is Robert? I have no idea.

00:15:44:23 - 00:15:45:17
Speaker 1
Wow, that's cool.

00:15:45:18 - 00:16:04:23
Speaker 2
Anyway, later that day I was watching Gaia, this streaming show, show, Show, and they're about dreaming and Robert Moses is being interviewed, but I didn't realize it was him. Like I just watched the whole show and I was like, engrossed. And I was like, I love this so much. And then right at the end it had his name and it was like, Oh, brother, you know, Providence, Rhode Island.

00:16:04:23 - 00:16:30:00
Speaker 2
That's what my training is. That's like really internal strong message. And I was just like drawn there. So yeah, but learning with him is really fun. He's really theatrical and like, it's not like boring and sciencey. Like not the science is boring. Science is very exciting, but it's, it's more like entertaining rather than just facts. So it kept my interest.

00:16:30:11 - 00:16:43:05
Speaker 1
In how can you use your dreams for therapy. Like, you know, a lot of people have mental health issues and trauma and anxiety and even physical health issues. How can they approach their dreams to, like, seek some healing, lucid or non lucid? Really?

00:16:43:13 - 00:17:05:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. First of all, I would be making sure that people have enough sleep so that you can actually get the good quality dreams and understandable messages. And then I like to look at dreams and discover like what kind of a dream was it that they had? Because some dreams in their own are just healing dreams and they don't actually have a message that we need to decipher or interpret.

00:17:05:13 - 00:17:23:06
Speaker 2
Sometimes it can just be that, you know, you've gone to sleep and you've had this really amazing experience. I've had people tell me about like golden hands coming out of the sky, coming and going over their bodies with the rays of light, you know, And there's like just healing experiences where you wake up and you think like, Wow, I feel really good after that.

00:17:23:15 - 00:17:40:22
Speaker 2
There's also like health dreams. You've touched on health. So I was just speaking to someone yesterday and he had a dream that this snake came and hit him on the shoulder. And when he woke up it like he could really feel the pain and it like scared him quite a lot. And he went and looked in the mirror and he had a birthmark there.

00:17:41:04 - 00:17:58:01
Speaker 2
But the color started to look a bit darker and it was right where the snake had beat him. So he went to the doctor and got it checked and they said that he had like stage four cancer right there. And if he didn't go that day, he would have been having to start or getting chemo would have died.

00:17:58:01 - 00:18:18:06
Speaker 2
But they ended up cutting it all out and starting treatment and he was about to lose his life. So there's those kind of health dreams. I wouldn't be like, Oh, I had a dream that a snake bit my shoulder. I'm going to die. Like, you really need to go through and like, establish which kind of dream it is before you come to that conclusion that it was a health warning.

00:18:19:00 - 00:18:52:07
Speaker 2
But for therapy, it's for me and for a lot of my clients. It's a lot about just understanding what your dreams mean and that actually just relieves so much anxiety. I find dreams give you guidance and I give you a message. So it's kind of staying with the dream, picking up on all the same symbols and watching the dream from start to finish, and then coming together and figuring it out, what it means, and then taking action from the dream and the action part is the part that I find really healing because I had a dream about my partner cheating on me.

00:18:53:01 - 00:19:13:14
Speaker 2
I actually had it twice, two nights in a row, but they were both different. So the first night was because I looked like a slob and he just wasn't interested. He just saw like a shiny, sparkly looking woman and he was like looking at her. And the reason that I had this dream is because we had just been moving house and for like, for the last month, I just looked terrible with my missing.

00:19:13:14 - 00:19:30:03
Speaker 2
My mom bought an oversize cement, so I used that dream. It's like a really powerful thing. And I went and got cleaned up and I just put some cute yoga clothes on and I just walked past him and I got like a big wolf whistle. And it really, like, filled that part of me that I was, like, missing like that, you know, feeling good about myself.

00:19:30:15 - 00:19:45:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then the next night, I had a dream about him cheating as well, but it actually had nothing to do with him cheating. It was that he just, like, didn't want anything to do with me and our daughter. And he left. But it was just because that night before bed, my daughter had been naughty and was like coming between us in an argument.

00:19:45:16 - 00:20:03:19
Speaker 2
So my mind is like taking me there. It's just interesting to like, pinpoint why you're having the dreams and then what you can do about them, what action you can take. So from that, you know, we sat down and we had a little family meeting about her behavior and that we're all on the same side and like reaffirmed our love and everything was good.

00:20:03:19 - 00:20:20:10
Speaker 2
And then, you know, those dreams are gone now because I'm like listening to them. But if I didn't listen to them and I continued wearing my schlubby clothes and we didn't have that family meeting, then who knows what could happen? Like apartments, human. Maybe in a few years you would have ends up cheating. So dreams come as warnings and they come as guidance.

00:20:20:10 - 00:20:24:13
Speaker 2
And I feel like they're there to help us with what we're missing.

00:20:24:13 - 00:20:43:02
Speaker 1
That's very true. Yeah. I love not jumping to, like, take things so literally and freak out, but rather like look within yourself and be like, okay, what can I do to make myself feel better? Because yeah, it's, it's about, you know, confidence and communication with your family. The action part of what you said, I think that's the most important because we can learn so much from our dreams and we can write down all our dreams.

00:20:43:02 - 00:20:47:03
Speaker 1
But if you're not applying that to your waking life, then kind of what's the point? You know.

00:20:47:08 - 00:21:15:03
Speaker 2
Taking action from your dreams is like bringing magic into the world. Like magic is technically when you bring something from another world into our waking reality. And it feels like magic when you do it in your waking life. Like one of my clients was having a dream about missing her in a child and her playful side. So her action that we had from the therapy was that she was going to go and do like a bomb dive in her school, you know, and bring back that like magical, fun feeling that she had as a child.

00:21:15:08 - 00:21:34:11
Speaker 2
I just find that taking those actions because it's something that your soul is already telling you at night, like, I want this, I need this. Please do something about it. So it's all well and good to understand your dreams and to think about them. But I feel like you get most of the magic from when you actually put it into action and you start doing something about them.

00:21:34:20 - 00:21:48:00
Speaker 1
Even when I just have a creative idea or something for my dream. And then it gives me the inspiration to do it in my waking life. It feels so cool to say like, Yeah, I got this for my dream and now I'm doing it in real life. Or like, I did this in my dream and then I wanted to do it.

00:21:48:00 - 00:21:59:13
Speaker 1
So here I am. It's it's really cool. Just the connection. What would you say to somebody if they have, like, super bad nightmares? Like, you know, those people that have nightmares all the time and they don't even want to go to sleep because it's like torture.

00:21:59:13 - 00:22:18:24
Speaker 2
Yeah, I really feel for these people. There was a stage in my life where I was the same and I used to delay going to bed and I would hardly sleep because I didn't want to. The things that I'd be looking at is making sure that they have something to help them feel safe in the night. Like, I know it's weird for adults, but like some of us still might want to have a cuddly teddy.

00:22:19:07 - 00:22:42:21
Speaker 2
We might want to have like really fluffy, comfy pajamas and bedding, really setting the mood for sleep so that if you wake up scared, like you feel comforted to be reminding yourself that it is just a dream or looking at lucid dreaming. And if they're constantly dreaming of the same nightmare, then like next time I see this thing, I'm going to know it's a dream.

00:22:42:21 - 00:23:07:03
Speaker 2
And then you'll be able to have like an action plan on what you're going to do within the dream. It really depends on the individual and where they are with themselves, because some people have terrible PTSD, they might be having the same recurring nightmare that's happening from PTSD. And I wouldn't say dream therapy is like the only thing I think people should still be getting regular therapy in psychiatry if they need it.

00:23:07:19 - 00:23:26:00
Speaker 2
But this is just like something extra that they can do. And sometimes this dream therapy will be the answer. But I wouldn't say to do it alone. Yeah, with nightmares. It's just trying to figure out what those symbols mean as well. Because when you realize that sometimes it's like, Oh, it's actually not as scary as it is when you become lucid in a dream.

00:23:26:00 - 00:23:50:15
Speaker 2
Like I had this nightmare that I was this huge spider. It was like bigger than me, this giant spider. And I was so freaked out. And then I was like, Hang on, spiders aren't that big. This has to be a dream. And then all of a sudden, my dreams shrunk the spider, but it shrunk it down to, like, the size of a cat, because that was something that my brain thought was like, more realistically, okay, But I'm still just like, Oh, no, I'm in a dream now.

00:23:50:15 - 00:24:02:10
Speaker 2
So it's fun. It can actually hurt me. So I think that like, lucidity is really helpful for nightmares in that way, because as soon as you realize you're in a dream. Oh, this is so cool. I can kind of influence what's going to happen.

00:24:02:14 - 00:24:03:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:24:03:10 - 00:24:24:16
Speaker 2
But it's learning that your mind can influence what's going to happen anyway. So if you expect something bad to happen, it's going to happen. Like if you like. Oh, no, that spiders, you know, it's going to start spinning baby spiders everywhere and it's going to start spinning by responding to request what you think. So it's really trying to be positive and like catching your thoughts before they happen and that sort of thing.

00:24:25:11 - 00:24:44:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. Beliefs play such a big role in like dream content and especially while you're lucid, so it makes sense. And also like lucid dreaming is great for nightmares. I mean, there's countless studies on it, but you know, when you have like a monster chasing you or whatever it is, you can turn around and literally ask, Hey, stop chasing me or ask it, Why are you chasing me?

00:24:44:14 - 00:25:00:06
Speaker 1
And a lot of times it'll respond like, Oh, you know, I'm chasing you because I am your past, whatever that you haven't gotten over and whatever, it'll give you an answer a lot of times, and then you can tell it like, okay, well, stop chasing me. I don't give you permission anymore. And a lot of times you know, it'll stop torturing you once you address it.

00:25:00:06 - 00:25:03:18
Speaker 1
And then, like you said, work on it in your waking life.

00:25:03:18 - 00:25:24:16
Speaker 2
And I help someone. He had this dark figure that always showed up in his dreams. And when he learned to become lucid, he turned around and I said, like, be kind to this person. Don't like, try and stab them or anything. Like don't start a fight. And he offered it help. And he said, Can I help you? And then the doctrine triggered turned to him and said, No, you can't help me because you haven't been looking after yourself.

00:25:25:11 - 00:25:37:23
Speaker 2
And so that was his message. It's like, Oh, happened, I saw you come to me. I'm like, Are you doing South Korea exercising, eating well, like with would you be looking after yourself? And as soon as he started looking after himself, he's not had the dream figure come back.

00:25:38:07 - 00:25:46:02
Speaker 1
Hopefully in the future, dream therapy and dream work in general just becomes, you know, as big as meditation did in the past ten years. Yeah.

00:25:46:14 - 00:26:08:00
Speaker 2
I think it will be like I've said to my dad this the other day, it's like, you know, how people are really into meditation and Breathwork was like a dream. Work is the next big thing. So you watch out. I was like, The whole world is going to change. I know it will. You know, like I said earlier, I've been doing therapy and having to take medication for mental health and everything for so long and it's discovering dream work.

00:26:08:00 - 00:26:24:24
Speaker 2
I don't have to take any medication anymore. I'm able to see what my issues are because I get different little messages every night. I can work on things myself. Now all of a sudden I don't care what other people think of me. I'm living my best life. I want to shout it from the rooftops like and let everybody know about this.

00:26:24:24 - 00:26:37:05
Speaker 2
I'm like, I feel like it's this huge secret that people don't know about. So then I think, But a lot of people do know about it because it is so ancient and in a lot of different cultures. But there are cultures that just have no clue.

00:26:37:14 - 00:26:47:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, it definitely deserves more credibility and that's why we're here. You know, like, I'm so glad to have met you and keep this conversation going and and help spread it to everybody in as many ways as possible.

00:26:47:19 - 00:26:59:08
Speaker 2
I've listened to every episode of your podcast. I'm obsessed and some I've listened to multiple times. I'm obsessed. Yeah. I was like, When I found you, I'm like, Oh my God, She's like me. You been in another country?

00:27:01:00 - 00:27:15:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. You're welcome to join us on clubhouse sometime. I'm sure you've seen that. I do. Clubhouse rooms. And yeah, everyone there is so awesome. Such a good community. Like if you could give somebody that's like, new to dream work in general, like one piece of advice for like working with your dreams and understanding.

00:27:15:05 - 00:27:40:24
Speaker 2
And one thing is write it down. It doesn't matter if you've had a full dream, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Even if you wake up and you're like, Oh, I think I was on a beach in Barcelona, but I don't really remember. It's still worth writing it down. Just write that down. Because when you're writing it down, you're opening up a dialog with your psyche, like your opening the book and saying, I want to hear what you have to say.

00:27:41:04 - 00:28:01:18
Speaker 2
So the more you write down, the more it starts to give. And when you write things down, like I look back in my dot, my dream diary, and I think, Wow, I don't remember having that dream at all because I've woken up at 3 a.m. and I'm just automatic CLI written it and then going back to sleep. But then when I look back at it all and I start like using them all, it makes sense to me.

00:28:01:18 - 00:28:08:18
Speaker 2
And it's like, or it could be like precognitive and it's like, Oh wow, I dreamt of that and now it's happening. I did.

00:28:09:07 - 00:28:25:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, you never know. That's such good advice. Write it all down. Even the little fragments and it's such a good habit because pieces come together over time sometimes. And then you can find your common dream symbols, which helps as well. Like there's so many benefits of dream journaling. What's your favorite way? Like, what do you use to write on your dreams?

00:28:25:13 - 00:28:27:00
Speaker 1
Like your phone or like a notebook?

00:28:27:19 - 00:28:48:20
Speaker 2
I've tried everything. I've tried the notebook, I've tried voice recording, I've tried the apps. But the thing and I really like the idea of all of those things, but the thing that works best for me is just a notepad in my phone and I just turn the brightness of my screen right down all the way and I have the notepad like open and ready, so I just lock my phone to go to sleep.

00:28:48:20 - 00:29:03:00
Speaker 2
So when I wake up, I don't move my body at all, or else I'll forget my dreams. I just grab my phone and I'll just it's already ready. So I just start typing it and it comes out the quickest, but I make sure I put the date there first. Nice. And then what? It was.

00:29:03:00 - 00:29:10:11
Speaker 1
That's cool. Yeah. That's a good way to do it. Yeah. It's hard because like, when you start moving around too much and fidgeting with the lights and stuff, you are. You forgot the dream by then.

00:29:10:14 - 00:29:11:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:11:13 - 00:29:23:06
Speaker 1
Everybody's different. You really got to find what works for you. Like, I kind of have, like, a hybrid ish method. I have an app on my phone that I really love. It's called Own Eerie. Just because I like that it organizes too. Yeah, they're.

00:29:23:06 - 00:29:29:07
Speaker 2
Great. It gives me the daily like the reality check. So throughout the day. Yeah.

00:29:30:07 - 00:29:48:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. They're cool and they have some some lucid dream tips on there but sometimes like if I don't want to move or if I don't want the light in my face, like I'll either do a quick voice recording so I can write it out later, and then later I'll go in and fill in the details. And even if I just like roll, I have a notepad by my bed and sometimes I'll just like, roll over and like, write some words down.

00:29:48:09 - 00:30:04:08
Speaker 1
And then hopefully if I can read my handwriting later, those few words that I wrote will help me remember and piece together the dream. It's like I'll write like I was in a house with my mom and we were eating, and then I'll be able to remember the details, usually off of like a little framework. And then but I'll always go back and put it in the.

00:30:04:08 - 00:30:19:17
Speaker 2
App like a knitted sweater. When you get a pull in it, when you stop pulling the thread like a little bit will just come out and you think that's all that it is. But once you start pulling the thread, more and more come. And that's like your memories with your dreams, isn't it? You just have a keyword and then when you go back and think about it, then you.

00:30:19:17 - 00:30:22:11
Speaker 2
Oh, that's right. Oh, that's right. And it's like you're pulling the thread.

00:30:22:15 - 00:30:36:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that's true. And as soon as you kind of linger on it and remember a little bit, then it all kind of starts to come back in the morning long as you write it down, like while you're still in bed, like still kind of half asleep, you know, that's the best for remembering.

00:30:37:00 - 00:30:47:04
Speaker 2
It's actually so funny. My daughter comes in and the other morning I said, Hang on, I'm just remembering my dream across to the edge of the bed and didn't say anything. And just like.

00:30:47:07 - 00:30:48:06
Speaker 1
She respects.

00:30:48:18 - 00:30:51:03
Speaker 2
Her and she come back, Tell me about it.

00:30:51:19 - 00:30:54:02
Speaker 1
Oh, you're doing so good. That's so cute.

00:30:54:09 - 00:30:54:16
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:30:55:12 - 00:31:13:20
Speaker 1
I love it. She's a little dreamer. So when it comes to, like, dream healing again, what happens or what do you do if you have somebody who they haven't remembered a dream in, like, years and they're like, I just don't dream. And I've been seeing black in my dreams. How do you approach that? Because I know that might be something that somebody might need to hear.

00:31:14:08 - 00:31:33:04
Speaker 2
This actually happens in my daily life every day. So my partner hadn't had a dream in ten years. And then I got into all this dream stuff and he's been really supportive. But you could tell he was like a bit flat because he couldn't really relate. Like he hadn't had a dream. So we started like with some things with him making sure he was getting enough sleep.

00:31:33:23 - 00:32:05:04
Speaker 2
I would say, you know, write it down. But he's like, I don't have anything to write down. I don't remember any of it. But I find what's been helping him is doing breath work and visual meditation. So like guided meditations where you lay there and you have to imagine the pictures. So it's like, you know, imagine you're walking through a rainforest and you can feel the sun on you and getting him to lie for, say, visual images into his mind has actually helped him start to remember fragments of dreams.

00:32:05:04 - 00:32:21:14
Speaker 2
And he's had about three dreams now just in the last week from doing Breathwork. He does like a lot of like you got to really, like get a lot of oxygen and it kind of helps you, like, relax and get into that liminal space. And then, yeah, visual meditations.

00:32:22:09 - 00:32:22:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a.

00:32:22:23 - 00:32:28:22
Speaker 2
Lot of intention setting as well. So he'll write a note of what he wants to know or what he wants to say and put it under his pillow.

00:32:29:09 - 00:32:30:00
Speaker 1
That's good.

00:32:30:00 - 00:32:35:04
Speaker 2
That's good. Yeah. Well, this dream that he remembered, it had to do with me doing a poo.

00:32:35:13 - 00:32:38:07
Speaker 1
Oh, God, that's so planned.

00:32:38:14 - 00:32:39:24
Speaker 2
Right. Welcome to the world.

00:32:39:24 - 00:32:45:16
Speaker 1
How do I go back to not dreaming no more, No more dreams? Yeah, that's funny.

00:32:46:24 - 00:33:26:21
Speaker 2
I do a lot of things on Instagram, so you'll find me a dream_ _ hub. I'm starting a YouTube channel, a podcast, but I do one on one therapies, so you'll be able to look at my website Dream how I knew I was starting up some great classes. And so it's I'm in Australia on the Gold Coast and to be able to come to those in person and then I'll also be starting some of the zoom . share letsget some comments and likes, share to your friends and we'll get everyone on.