EP38: Omni Dreamer: Someone Who is Lucid in EVERY Dream

An Omni dreamer is someone who is lucid in every dream they have. Today I am talking to an omni who explains what it is like to be consciously aware 24/7 while awake and asleep. He talks about what he does every night with full control of his dreams, and the persistent dream realms that he can create. 

 If you are lucid in every dream you have, and you never have dreams in which you are NOT aware it is a dream, you may be an omni. Join our discord to find more omni lucid dreamers and share your experience with us!

In this episode, we talk about how lucidity is a great way to get to know yourself better inside and out. We also try to start to set some criteria for what constitutes as ludidity and how we can identify an omni. What are the nature vs nurture factors that determine how natural someone is at lucid dreaming?

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To get involved in the community, join our Discord Server.

Contribute to consciousness and dream research by becoming a part of the data! Participating in this experiment will significantly improve your dream recall & lucidity.

To join the experiment:

1. Follow the reddit

3. Join discord for more info, and to find the Experiment server. 

Transcript

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:21:18
Speaker 1
There is a rare type of dreamer called an Omni, which is somebody that is lucid in every dream that they have, whether they have full control or not. They are aware that they are dreaming every time they lay down and sleep, which can be really exhausting to be consciously aware. 24 seven. So the purpose of today's episode is to gather people that can relate to this.

00:00:22:08 - 00:00:42:07
Speaker 1
If you feel like this might be you, you're actually not alone. And there's other people that have similar dream experiences. Definitely join our Discord. So you can get in on the conversation. That's what the Dreamer podcast is all about. Nuclear Stardust is an on me and says that he is lucid in every dream ever. So I'll let you and nightowl introduce yourselves.

00:00:44:06 - 00:01:09:19
Speaker 2
So. Hi, guys. I'm Night Owl. I'm the host of the largest ongoing, lucid dreaming experiment. If you're still curious about what that is mean to me and I had a great conversation last week about that. We're still looking for participants who can join and still actively be involved in the methods that we're experimenting with. Or if you just want to fill out a quick daily two minute survey and be a part of scientific history, many people in that control group as well.

00:01:09:23 - 00:01:12:12
Speaker 2
Definitely check us out and hopefully I'll see you there.

00:01:12:16 - 00:01:36:10
Speaker 3
Hello, guys. I'm Nicola Stardust. You can just call me Nuke. So it's is I'm all, I think a regular fellow from Europe Eastern Europe, to be specific, started learning about lucidity and the sea dreaming. When I was like 13, a friend of mine showed me a video about this, and I was like, Isn't this the norm? Don't people actually know that they're dreaming and they have control?

00:01:36:10 - 00:02:00:21
Speaker 3
And the whole point of playing a game is when you're going to sleep. And he was like, No. And I was really confused by that statement. I couldn't really understand it. And I started to speak to other friends and family, and they all told me that I'm the actual weird one that actually knows is dreaming always, and he can control it and everything.

00:02:00:21 - 00:02:29:00
Speaker 3
And they were like, Are you a some of the older folks were like, Are you a witch? Or What's wrong with you? What do you have? All these things. It's unusual as I started to learn, it's not. That's impossible. Yeah, well, I hope to do is to get more and more people to study actual lucidity and to learn and teach others what it means to use their dreams in a meaningful and helpful way.

00:02:29:03 - 00:02:38:02
Speaker 3
That's what I hope to do with this experiment and all the other things that I try to do in the meantime with the people I'm talking to and friends and all that.

00:02:38:02 - 00:03:04:20
Speaker 2
I'm so glad that we met, you know, through this experiment. We've had a lot of great conversations. Honestly, it started out as you know, you were in an anomaly in the dataset and very few people even claim to have attained that level of lucidity. And I think I've struggled personally with really understanding what that means for you. So maybe you could just tell us, you know, a little bit more about how it started for you.

00:03:04:20 - 00:03:06:14
Speaker 2
How long has this been going on?

00:03:07:01 - 00:03:26:07
Speaker 3
Like, I don't remember the actual start. One of the first memories I've ever had was when I was around three or four, I had a dream or yeah, I guess a lucid dreaming in which it was basically a nightmare. There was some monster in the corner of my room and was playing with my toys in the dream somehow.

00:03:26:22 - 00:04:02:08
Speaker 3
And I got pretty scared by it and I was like, Wait, no, monsters don't exist. You shouldn't be here. And then he just disappeared in front of my eyes and like, it was really weird. Like, that kind of thing makes you it leaves a mark on you, I guess. And that's one of my first ever memories. Like, that's like I was three and I talk to my parents about it, and they said that I always was talking or mentioning my dreams, and I was describing them pretty vividly, but they just said always just shy of the imagination.

00:04:02:20 - 00:04:29:22
Speaker 3
And mostly my mom says that now that she thinks about it, it's like she actually saw some signs that I was having some really vivid dreams, like they were having an effect on me and everything. She said that I didn't sleep at all during the day. I would sleep only at night. For some reason. I would sleep at the kindergarten or anywhere if there were some pretty weird anomalies about my sleep schedule and all those things.

00:04:30:11 - 00:04:42:18
Speaker 3
So it started from a very young age and I just went with it. I didn't ever think about it because I thought that was the norm. Especially when you're young, you don't you don't realize that other people have different experiences.

00:04:43:02 - 00:05:02:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that's super interesting, honestly. And I can imagine why a lot of people would have a weirded out or negative stigma around that because it is so rare. Honestly. So as a child with that much like dream control because children already have more natural and lucid dreams as it is. So I can't imagine how vivid it was for you.

00:05:02:07 - 00:05:06:10
Speaker 1
Like what type of things is you do as a child, Like just some videogame stuff.

00:05:06:18 - 00:05:26:19
Speaker 3
It's kind of funny actually, because I my father is a works in I.T. and I also had a computer in my house Ever since I was I was born, I was basically with a computer in my head. And I'm not that old. I'm 22 turning 33 and in 2000, it wasn't that common to have a computer in their house, especially in Romania.

00:05:27:10 - 00:05:49:18
Speaker 3
I was one of the few kids with a computer in the neighborhood, so I started using the computer and watching a lot of digital things since a very since I was very young. So my imagination, I believe, was really helped by that. The fact that I started playing my first games when I was like two, my father was just put some farm.

00:05:50:03 - 00:06:13:17
Speaker 3
I think it was a farm game I would play when I was like You, you had to manage a farm and you had to find different things. It was like a puzzle, I think. And actually that was the first time I interacted with the English. I basically learned English before I learned Romanian because the game was in English and they didn't know all the words for those things, but they knew them in English, which I know that they I'm watching my niece, who's like seven or eight.

00:06:14:07 - 00:06:37:10
Speaker 3
I see that she has a really similar experience, like she learned colors in English before letting them in the Romanian. And that's why I guess because of the Internet and YouTube and all those things. So yeah, I think that was the big thing. I also was the really artistically inclined kid, especially towards music. I went to a music specialized kindergarten.

00:06:38:10 - 00:07:00:16
Speaker 3
I was learning the piano and the it didn't really work out for me, I guess, because after kindergarten we went to a normal school. But I still I still had a big passion for music. Both my parents listened to all a lot of music, and I guess that's what influenced me a lot towards my artistic side. And I still I play the guitar almost every day now for the best.

00:07:00:16 - 00:07:23:13
Speaker 3
What, 13, 12 years? So yeah, those things kind of left a mark on me. And regarding actual dreaming, I think I always remember like my dreams having been influenced by whatever I am playing or whatever I was watching at the time. Like if I watched a cartoon with Tom and Jerry, I would have like a dream about Tom and Jerry.

00:07:24:02 - 00:07:27:15
Speaker 3
They and they would be goofing around with me and playing with me and all those things.

00:07:27:15 - 00:07:47:07
Speaker 1
So I was actually talking about this on clubhouse today, that it's proven that people that play more video games have more lucid dreams, you know, And I'm sure, you know, we'll get into the whole nature nurture debate games are kind of like a VR conscious experience thing and dreams are very similar in that way. I always compare lucid dreams to like a VR fully immersive video game.

00:07:47:07 - 00:07:58:11
Speaker 1
So as somebody that has spent so much time lucid in a dream, what are some ways that people can do? Use their dreams for good? You know, whether you're a often lucid dreamer or not, you know.

00:07:59:01 - 00:08:21:00
Speaker 3
I think the first experiences with lucidity will be more than likely fooling around with it, trying different things, searching for the boundaries where you have control and you don't have control, which is completely normal, but after you have a few goes with it. You start to see that actually the characters in your dreams or different parts of your dreams are actually parts of you.

00:08:21:05 - 00:08:43:23
Speaker 3
And as you interact with them, you actually interact with yourself. You interact with different parts of your subconscious. That's how I like to see it. And that can help you with that thing. With trauma, dealing with stress. If you start to have enough lucid dreams that you can actually develop a permanent realm, you'll start to get consistency in your dreams.

00:08:44:02 - 00:09:08:21
Speaker 3
And once you have consistency, you have total control, and that's when you can actually get the full benefits of it. You can start actually using all this time when you're dreaming towards developing skills or the words learning or some. For example, I used to when I was in college, I started to try and learn for some exams in my dreams and it worked.

00:09:09:20 - 00:09:32:19
Speaker 3
Not completely. It wasn't fully efficient like I was awake, but it's still the knowledge everybody have had IQ that's just repeated in my dream and make it more concrete. Let's see, I could to reiterate it and so on. Or you can deal with trauma. You can talk to whatever image you have of the people that cause you drama and try to forgive them or whatever.

00:09:32:19 - 00:09:44:01
Speaker 3
We feel the way to deal with the drama, with the traumas and so on. There are a lot of ways you can use your brain to ease your life policy. That's how I like to say it, honestly.

00:09:44:01 - 00:09:59:19
Speaker 1
It's so true. Like I talk about all the time, like all the millions of benefits of learning how to lucid dream and it takes practice. You know, people listening to this like it's definitely something that it's not just, Oh, let me just do this tonight. You know, it takes practice and, you know, it's a journey. And like you said, at first, you're lucid.

00:09:59:19 - 00:10:19:01
Speaker 1
James might be short, but the more lucid dreams I have, I definitely resonate with you. Like I start to just get better at it the more I'm focused on it. But as somebody that can easily be like, Oh, I'm going to do this tonight because I know I'll be lucid in every dream ever. Does it feel like you don't get conscious rest because know a lot of people say, Oh, I get exhausted after I have so many lucid dreams.

00:10:19:02 - 00:10:25:24
Speaker 1
Some people wake up feeling more refreshed. This is a debate that I get all the time online. So you personally, I know everybody's different.

00:10:26:04 - 00:10:56:15
Speaker 3
I get exhausted for sure. Thankfully, I discovered meditation and more likely resting my mind is I think is a better word. You know, the pretty young age. I was like 11 or 12. I started doing martial arts and every single class we had started and ended the ended in meditation at least one minute in which all of us just were sitting and just think, just trying to disconnect with the reality.

00:10:56:20 - 00:11:20:01
Speaker 3
When you are in that state of mind with a lot of other people doing the same thing with you, you start to feel this kind of energy, you feel like you're all connected and you're all there for the same, for the same reason, I guess. And that's really changed the way I started doing my daily life. I meditate at least five or six times a day.

00:11:20:01 - 00:11:41:10
Speaker 3
I don't do long meditation. I don't like go for a half an hour or zoom out of the world. I'm out in front of the building at work and I'm just smoking a cigaret alone with some music in my head, in my headphones, and just fade away. Let's say from reality and just go into my thoughts or just think of No, I think it depends on what what they want at the moment.

00:11:42:05 - 00:11:59:22
Speaker 3
But meditation is a big thing when you want to rest your mind. That's whether it works for me and that's what I think works for other people. I talk towards other companies and they all said they use meditation pretty consistently, at least once a day, at least the ones I talk to at least.

00:12:00:06 - 00:12:07:14
Speaker 1
Why do you think that is? I mean, you know, I've heard people talk about how meditation is consciously, but, you know, it's like rest in a way while you're awake.

00:12:07:21 - 00:12:33:12
Speaker 3
Because I believe through meditation, you disconnect from the external world and you focus only on the internal world. And that's what lets you rest for say you don't have all the inputs that you have to think about when you are in a normal day. You just have to live, you just have to stay in that moment and just focus on your self and nothing else.

00:12:33:12 - 00:13:06:00
Speaker 3
Absolutely nothing else, no vision, no sounds, nothing from the exterior. And that's why it's helps basically repeating yourself, I'm helping one go from the experiment to his trying to achieve all the awareness, and I'm helping him through the whole path. And after a few days of just thinking over and over, being aware of all the action he's doing, he started to understand what they told him at the beginning, that meditation will be so important that he won't.

00:13:06:00 - 00:13:11:02
Speaker 3
He won't even believe it. And he said that meditation is the the his favorite part of the.

00:13:11:02 - 00:13:11:12
Speaker 2
Day.

00:13:12:08 - 00:13:23:01
Speaker 3
Because it it's just it's just so restful. After you're fully aware of all the actions you do in the day. It's just the it's like the cup of coffee in the morning.

00:13:23:16 - 00:13:28:00
Speaker 1
What's it like meditating in a dream versus meditating in waking life?

00:13:28:11 - 00:13:58:15
Speaker 3
The main difference, I believe, is the fact that you don't have to concentrate on cutting the exterior in the lucid dreaming. You just cut it, just poof, and it's gone and it's just a black thing with your conscious in there and nothing else. And it can be frightening to be honest, because when you see all that emptiness and it's just you and your thoughts and nothing else, it can be frightening at first.

00:13:58:15 - 00:14:30:18
Speaker 3
But after maybe like 10 seconds, you'll start to feel completely at ease, I think is the best way to describe it. You feel extremely cold. You don't feel any other emotion than coldness. You can achieve that in a normal meditation. But I think there need to be some external factors to that. Take this into account, like being all alone, let's say, on top of a mountain in Himalayas or something, you know, that might that might have the same effect.

00:14:31:05 - 00:14:56:16
Speaker 3
I think. Yeah. And I really I really want to go now on that kind of journey, going into a completely spiritual way of living for like I know, months, just straight out to see what what that's like. Because normal life is so different from the earth as we just forget that that path also exist. The feeling and and the want to call it soul.

00:14:56:16 - 00:15:01:23
Speaker 3
I don't like that terminology. Your real consciousness. That's how we like to call it.

00:15:02:13 - 00:15:20:11
Speaker 1
Do you feel like, you know, if you wanted to go meditate on top of the Himalayas, you could create that dreamscape. Every time you think of something cool you could do, You're like, Oh, I can just experience it in a dream. And you feel like that experience of like traveling to Paris or whatever gives you like that same sort of like fulfillment of having experience.

00:15:20:11 - 00:15:44:23
Speaker 3
That if I would save a little at a shallow level. Yes, but at a deep level, no, because if you're lucid, you know you're dreaming. And you know that experience isn't real, right? So if you start at like just just having this like a second of that thought will ruin your experience to be honest. So, no, I don't think you can exchange.

00:15:44:23 - 00:16:13:17
Speaker 3
It's more to say it's still something you need to do with your consciousness. Real world, because that's when the really important things happen. And that's what I think is also really important for people who start in lucidity. Dolan's puts a real world on the second spot and remodeling the first spot. Real world is still there, always there. Every time you wake up and go to sleep, it's still in between those points.

00:16:14:21 - 00:16:28:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a really good thing that you say, especially because, you know, it's important to have balance and to understand that you have to still put in the work and focus on your waking life. A lot of people, especially people that are new to lucid dreaming, they obsess a lot. I want to get lucid. I want to get lucid.

00:16:28:24 - 00:16:33:21
Speaker 1
They get tunnel vision. They forget about their non lucid dreams. But I tell people, don't obsess over getting lucid.

00:16:34:00 - 00:17:06:24
Speaker 2
Something you said about, you know, knowing that it is an artificial environment and that sort of ruins your experience. What's your opinion on the dream unconsciously creating itself? Do you find yourself in a pre established environment, you know, that has its own laws of physics and its own plot with its own characters? Or is it like the moment you become lucid, you're at a blank canvas and you need to sort of imagine exactly what you're seeing and experiencing?

00:17:09:08 - 00:17:37:04
Speaker 3
For me personally, I have multiple permanent rollout rounds. That's what they're called. That's how about, you know, the terminologies? So I have multiple or let's say, universes in which my consciousness resides in my dreams and different characters. Are there different people, different places, different languages, even for some reason I have a thing about languages. I love languages so much and it's affects my dreams.

00:17:37:04 - 00:18:05:03
Speaker 3
I basically invented in one of my dreams a language which I can't even describe it. I know, I know it, I know it's there. And it's like the game gaming world analogy. It's like when you load the in, you already know all the things prior to it. You still have all the knowledge before it and then you just develop on that knowledge to a new sport and then you go back to another problem and then income and then so on.

00:18:05:03 - 00:18:07:12
Speaker 3
You just perpetually make it.

00:18:08:01 - 00:18:12:05
Speaker 1
Bigger and bigger and you're loading into your map that you're creating every time.

00:18:13:04 - 00:18:32:24
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's, that's why I'm not sure I'm really curious because I once I would really like to speak to someone who is an Omni and doesn't have any gaming experience to see if death also plays, to see if that's specifically because of the influence gaming had on me, or if it's something that's not normal. It's like a default setting.

00:18:33:08 - 00:19:01:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, maybe. Maybe video games and you know, computer science and everything is are, you know, most technical way of projecting, you know, this otherwise unconscious experience. We all have. I'm very curious about the aspect of control and what that's like for you might imagine that being omni, you're the lucidity allows for more control because you harness that ability over time.

00:19:02:19 - 00:19:30:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, I have basically I have total control like I can. Well, then I do, because I don't want to interfere with my subconscious. I like to just let it go, let let my subconscious create and they just interact with it as it were they like to do. But when I feel like the direction my dream is heading, or I'm just bored of the dream or I whatever reason, they just decide now I'm out of here and then they just do whatever I want.

00:19:30:12 - 00:19:34:02
Speaker 1
In all your dreams, ever even since childhood. Full control.

00:19:34:05 - 00:19:54:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, it was full control. Like everything, every aspect of it I can. I had some dreams where I just changed the laws of physics. I would just say, Oh, no more friction. Just like in all the physics problems. You don't think you don't take friction into account? Then it was like, Oh, I can just light my finger on anything and it doesn't do any force on me.

00:19:54:22 - 00:20:02:01
Speaker 3
And it was really weird. I couldn't walk. I would sleep constantly. And so in the air it was really funny. It was interesting to do.

00:20:02:13 - 00:20:21:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, I've done some fun, like physics bending things, and even as a regular segment, sometimes I just go along with the narrative of the dream. If I try to do too much, the dream has a mind of its own. I don't always have full control. Even when I do the dream does random things sometimes, and I know that that depends on my thought and my expectations and stuff like that.

00:20:21:11 - 00:20:30:18
Speaker 1
So there's factors to it. But sometimes when I just let the dream show me things that I'm just conscious observer, like it's really cool, you know, I don't have to be controlling and doing things all the time.

00:20:31:08 - 00:21:09:18
Speaker 3
Observing the dream is really, really powerful in my opinion. It gives more power for them to little control because it lets you see a side of you that you don't know. You don't know your subconscious, you don't know what you are actually thinking, you just know what consciously was doing and conscious you is thinking. So interacting with that can be sometimes life changing or can reveal some things you have never thought of or realize things you've never you thought you might have gotten over it and thought of everything, and then your subconscious just boom, Another idea, boom.

00:21:09:18 - 00:21:12:19
Speaker 3
One other thing, and that can be really powerful.

00:21:13:07 - 00:21:21:12
Speaker 2
I'm wondering, you know, that's the positive side of it. But have you ever had lucid nightmares where you're not necessarily in control?

00:21:21:23 - 00:21:51:24
Speaker 3
I was always saying control, because then again, I feel I have total control, but I let my dreams govern me. I want to experience death. Part two. I want to experience what's not having control does. And it can be really frightening to be honest sometimes. Like in certain dreams, I. I almost woke up in tears and in terror and with the pen getting and everything.

00:21:53:11 - 00:22:14:23
Speaker 3
So yeah that that can also happen when you just let your mind go free. So I think there needs to be a balance between the two. You still need to learn your subconscious, but you need to keep it in check, like not to let it rest, wreck havoc on your conscious mind because that can also be really damaging.

00:22:16:00 - 00:22:24:17
Speaker 1
Dreams definitely have an effect on the psyche, even lucid dreams when you know it's a dream, it can still be scary and affect your whole next day. So I can relate.

00:22:25:05 - 00:22:47:19
Speaker 2
Your conscious experiences with playing with the laws of physics. Have you ever found yourself disembodied in a way? Like do you feel like, you know, inhabiting your physical form allows you to better interact with that sort of environment? Or have you ever explored just pure consciousness?

00:22:48:07 - 00:22:59:13
Speaker 3
I explored it quite often, to be honest, trying to not have a body and just observe the world or observe the people around me without my interaction, like people in my dream, that's what they mean.

00:23:00:09 - 00:23:07:00
Speaker 2
But is that like a part perspective or like omnipresent? You know.

00:23:08:15 - 00:23:34:14
Speaker 3
It's not. It's not only omnipresence, it's more like it's like a camera. You can look everywhere, you can see everything, but you have to actively look on it. You don't have to inactive knowledge. If you don't look at it, you don't know it. That's what that's what it does. For me, at least I tried to do some omniscience things in my dreams.

00:23:34:24 - 00:24:00:04
Speaker 3
The problem with it is that when you're trying that you're starting to, let's say, divert your mind, I'm sure, how to give you the better term. Your mind goes into so many places so quickly, so fast and back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. So you get all the knowledge needed to create, let's say, the subconscious into your subconscious, that it's really, really tiring.

00:24:00:18 - 00:24:13:09
Speaker 3
And after a few minutes of doing that, you're just completely exhausted. That's one of the few times that I just went blank in a dream, like I couldn't dream anymore because of that.

00:24:13:23 - 00:24:15:14
Speaker 2
It was like so much of one.

00:24:15:18 - 00:24:31:05
Speaker 3
There was there were so many things going and so many things that were affecting me that I couldn't really just keep up with. And my, my, my mind was just went, okay, you need sleep, Good sleep, basically.

00:24:31:18 - 00:24:34:10
Speaker 1
So how often do you get this dreamless sleep?

00:24:35:04 - 00:24:35:20
Speaker 2
Mm.

00:24:35:23 - 00:24:57:18
Speaker 3
I guess it depends on my how tired I am from the day. If I am extremely tired, like I had a really long day, I had to drive. I had to go from one place to another. So things do things I would get like a 50% chance of getting a no dream sleep. It's still, it still happens even if I'm really tired.

00:24:57:22 - 00:24:59:10
Speaker 3
But there are a lot less often.

00:25:00:14 - 00:25:25:07
Speaker 2
Hmm. So we talked about a few things that, you know, you do during your waking life that may or may not influence your ability to be omni, such as video games and meditation. Are there any other things such as drugs or alcohol that you can do in order to not be omni in every dream? Like will that allow you to have more dreamless sleep?

00:25:25:07 - 00:25:25:18
Speaker 2
Well.

00:25:26:20 - 00:25:57:12
Speaker 3
Alcohol has the biggest effect on that for me. Whenever I drink, the chances of me getting an actual dream are really small, like heavy drinking, not just having a beer, like going to a party and drinking a lot water more than likely, like 95% chance that I won't dream. It'll just blank and then wake up. Nothing, absolutely nothing in between, which I guess is pretty normal because your mind still needs rest, especially if there's so much alcohol and partying and all those things.

00:25:58:03 - 00:26:18:13
Speaker 3
I don't do anymore parties and alcohol at the time, so I haven't really experienced it in the past few months, but I know for sure it happened to me. I do some some other drugs in the in the meantime and they don't really have an effect. I do only weep. And that had had that had no effect on my actual dreaming.

00:26:19:02 - 00:26:31:10
Speaker 3
I don't know. Maybe that's just me or just a really, really small percentage of maybe dreaming less. That's that would be the only effect. It would bring me to dreaming.

00:26:32:01 - 00:26:34:20
Speaker 2
More about clarity. We talked about control.

00:26:34:20 - 00:26:43:03
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, No clarity. Clarity does change. Clarity do. Yeah, Yeah, it does change clarity. The dreams are way more slow paced.

00:26:43:20 - 00:26:44:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. Gotcha.

00:26:45:16 - 00:26:56:04
Speaker 3
They are still for me. They are still clear. Like it's just everything. Move slowly and everything goes like in a point of five speed, you know.

00:26:56:16 - 00:27:01:22
Speaker 1
Have you ever tried dreaming supplements like Galantamine or even like B-6 or anything? No.

00:27:02:13 - 00:27:08:19
Speaker 3
I never did any kind of medication that would alter my mind.

00:27:08:19 - 00:27:09:18
Speaker 1
I'm just curious.

00:27:10:14 - 00:27:37:03
Speaker 3
The closest thing I did was some heart pills. Yeah. It made you really, really sleepy after it took one that. That changed my dreams in a pretty dramatic way. They would be a lot more dark. They would be some dark dreams. Like dark themes, dark, pretty depressive things in my dreams. Because of that, I'm not sure what the actual name of the pills were.

00:27:37:18 - 00:27:49:05
Speaker 3
I needed them, so it wasn't really an option of not taking them. That's what it did to my brain. It made me. It gave me some pretty dark thoughts in that period, and it's affected my dreams too.

00:27:49:13 - 00:28:11:02
Speaker 2
I would say this because we're talking about the content of your dreams. Describe a little bit more what your actual sleep schedule is like. Is there a reason? So are you, like, deprived of sleep and you're just constantly in a state of REM rebound? You know, how how would you describe your habits around sleep and what your typical routine looks like?

00:28:11:16 - 00:28:34:15
Speaker 3
I sleep a lot. All my friends know every single friend they have know that I sleep a lot. I love sleeping even though I don't really have all the time in the world like sleep. If I. If I good's. I always say this. If I could, I would sleep 24 seven. But not just because of Felicity. I just love I love sitting.

00:28:34:21 - 00:28:46:11
Speaker 3
I love resting because for me, resting is just a moment when I'm just me and my thoughts. And I love that. That's what it has always been with me. I love just thinking.

00:28:46:16 - 00:29:05:01
Speaker 2
Are there any, you know, negative associations with with this condition, if you will, as being with your thoughts? You've learned to cultivate that and use it to your advantage in a way that allows you to better operate in your waking life or that, you know, that's something that's always been for you, or is that something you have to work on?

00:29:05:13 - 00:29:40:23
Speaker 3
My constant awareness also has the side effect of me questioning every single thing I do. I'm always questioning myself. I'm always questioning every decision I take and overthink it. I try to do it less often. Now I'm trying to teach myself to not overthinking things, just go with the flow. And sometimes that bites me back. And quite, quite often, to be honest, I'm I like to think of what I do and what I choose as thoroughly as I can.

00:29:41:23 - 00:30:04:24
Speaker 3
I don't see I don't take decisions. And we on a whim at all because of this. So I think of every single aspect, every single thing, even though some people would say that I don't usually do that, I actually do it. It just happens in that moment. I just I just choose to go with the flow and let it be perceived because you can't really control everything, even if you think of it completely.

00:30:05:14 - 00:30:25:11
Speaker 3
You don't know all the all the factors, every variable that can that can go into this problem. Some people might say that that thinking of things ahead of time is useless because you never know what can happen. I don't believe that's true. You can know the possibilities. You just then don't know which.

00:30:26:07 - 00:30:32:01
Speaker 2
Have you use that for? Precognitive right? Have you ever asked yourself, I need these lottery numbers for tomorrow?

00:30:32:01 - 00:30:37:06
Speaker 3
But it's really the the lottery numbers and unfortunately doesn't work.

00:30:38:04 - 00:30:40:16
Speaker 1
Did you have anything work though? You said you had some.

00:30:41:15 - 00:31:02:17
Speaker 3
I used to when I had a stressful day. Or I would have some something important do or I would have some important speech to do or anything like that. I would rehearse it in my sleep until I get it exactly how I want it. Or if I had a multiple action problem like I had to go from there for that.

00:31:02:17 - 00:31:28:16
Speaker 3
So that sort that, so that I would just you said every point in the action and try to do the best I can and to try to leave for say, every scenario so I know how to react to it to solve the problem. I'm not sure that you would call that on. I would just call it prepare yourself for things I never had anything of.

00:31:28:16 - 00:31:33:02
Speaker 3
Just I feel like tomorrow is going to rain and tomorrow is going to rain. I'm nothing like that.

00:31:33:18 - 00:31:44:08
Speaker 1
Like, let's say you're looking for like a keyword or an answer to something that you don't know and waking life. And then you go, I don't know, stream characters for it and try to find the answer in your dream. Like, maybe.

00:31:44:19 - 00:32:09:22
Speaker 3
That can happen. Like, but as I experimented with it, I saw that if it's knowledge that would be completely out of my possession. Like no way of knowing it, it wouldn't work. It has to be things that I have a chance of knowing. Even the slightest chance, like seeing, seeing it passing with within the bus, passing it by the street and seeing something.

00:32:10:11 - 00:32:24:14
Speaker 3
I can recall that, but it's something that I have no chance of knowing or experiencing or anything. It's not consistent. It can it can work. It might not work. It's it's chances. Just like normal thing.

00:32:25:02 - 00:32:51:15
Speaker 2
The way I think of it is simulation theory, right? So it's like you can take you know, sensory input from your past and use it to project forward in a way where you may be able to predict, but you're not claiming that it's some sort of astral projection that allows you to gain access to information that you would otherwise have no information about.

00:32:51:20 - 00:33:15:06
Speaker 3
You know what? You know, you can't learn something without experiencing it. That's how I think of it. Even the reading. I don't believe you reading is actual full learning. Something is just you learn this information, but you don't learn the thing that the information is. So unless you experience it or know in the way that you can actually make use of it is not really knowing.

00:33:15:06 - 00:33:40:11
Speaker 3
It is just I have some information about it. Information is also useful. And I'm not saying it's not just it's a different kind of thing. It is, I think, way more difficult. It's a more difficult problem some people have is like my mom has a pretty weird experience with that. Everything she dreams happens at some point.

00:33:40:22 - 00:33:53:01
Speaker 1
When you were talking about, you know, remembering your dreams and then being really long dreams, do you remember every detail of the whole dream when you wake up or due process it to remember it as a dream is happening or.

00:33:53:10 - 00:34:21:17
Speaker 3
It's just like you would remember normal life? That's how we describe it. If you pay attention to it, you know it. If you don't pay attention to it, you can create it. It might not be true. It might be true. It there is a chance that if I I'm treating my dreams as I would treat technically normal life, but if I put my mind to it, like, if I want to, I can remember every detail.

00:34:22:22 - 00:34:36:04
Speaker 3
It just would take some time to, let's say, every moment, because I have it in somewhere that is somewhere in my brain that has that is just not in my immediate use per say.

00:34:36:09 - 00:34:52:02
Speaker 1
That makes sense. If I were to try to remember every detail of what I did yesterday, like I could do it. It would take me a minute. So I think exactly that makes sense. You're just it would be just like being consciously aware. So how like the connection to your waking life, like, how mindfully aware are you throughout the day?

00:34:52:08 - 00:34:57:02
Speaker 1
Do you ever just go on autopilot or like, does that lucidity transfer over into your waking life?

00:34:57:19 - 00:35:23:10
Speaker 3
I think that's one of the things that actually made me a nominee. I am 99.9% of the time completely aware of every action I'm doing, of every thought I'm having, of every single thing I'm doing, like I am now playing with a lighter. I just know I'm talking to you and I'm still conscious of every single texture on it, every single crevice, everything.

00:35:24:12 - 00:35:48:19
Speaker 3
And both talking and both both of you. I'm also aware of all those things at the same time, and I always had that. I was able to concentrate on multiple things at the same time. A lot. I always learn with music. I literally the way that I can't learn without music. It's impossible for me for some reason. I'm not sure if it's something due to my my home, my brain or whatever.

00:35:48:19 - 00:36:01:22
Speaker 3
I if I don't listen to music when I'm learning, I can't learn because I associate the music with what I'm learning, with the words I'm reading or with the problems or the formulas or whatever I'm learning at that point.

00:36:02:21 - 00:36:25:15
Speaker 2
So that reminds me of an old psychology trick I heard once, where you chew a specific kind of gum while you're studying for a specific exam and that by having that same gum during the actual exam, you'll be able to more easily recall that information due to association. Yeah, so.

00:36:25:20 - 00:36:26:22
Speaker 3
That makes a lot of sense.

00:36:27:14 - 00:36:53:12
Speaker 2
Can you tell me a little bit more about what awareness really means for you? I mean, you described it briefly as like, you know, exactly what you're doing. You're aware of other sensory input, such as, you know, what other people are doing. It seems to me like music somehow satisfies that stimulation, you know? Yeah, Yeah. It's more on what you're trying to focus on rather than everything all at once.

00:36:54:12 - 00:37:17:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, music helps me focus a lot. I listen to as much music as I can. I had the oh on Spotify recap I heard in 2018, like more than 140 days of continuous music. Playing music is music is one of the biggest things in my life, to be honest. I love music. I it's just like one of my favorite things.

00:37:17:19 - 00:37:22:04
Speaker 2
What kind of music is it like? Heavy metal, screamo something and you really need to drown.

00:37:22:04 - 00:37:45:10
Speaker 3
I listen to that too. I listen to Mellow Metal, too. I listen to rap, I listen to atmospheric music. I listen to almost everything. I listen to. There's this thing called in Romania. It's like weird electronic volcanic music, which people in Romania see as pretty uncultured music, let's say.

00:37:45:18 - 00:37:56:16
Speaker 2
So all day awareness. You know, how might somebody who, you know, doesn't do that already, how might they practice all day awareness? Well.

00:37:57:06 - 00:38:27:19
Speaker 3
There are a few steps you need to take into account. And the biggest thing that you need to decide before going for all the awareness is decide if you really want to do it, because it's a hard process. It takes a lot of your mental capacity and at the beginning, before you start to develop it as a habit, the main idea is that you have to be conscious that every action you are doing, you are a conscious being doing it.

00:38:28:14 - 00:38:54:21
Speaker 3
You are the thing that does that. That's how I explained it to one of the guys. You just have to repeat in your mind. I'm I'm doing my phone keys, I am getting my phone case. I am getting my lighter for everything you do. I I'm moving my head, I'm raising the finger, everything. And you have to develop that as good as you can so that death will start to run in the background.

00:38:54:21 - 00:39:16:08
Speaker 3
Let's see. You won't have to do it consciously anymore after a while. But until then, it's really hard. It's really taking a toll on your mental capacity and on your energy because you have to do it for everything. Everything. Some people started we just doing the main actions and then they start to go into details. That's what he's doing right now.

00:39:16:08 - 00:39:39:15
Speaker 3
He he asked me for he should describe what he's seeing in the video, which is a pretty specific things. You're watching videos. There are a lot of things happening there and you are aware of the things and you ask me if he has to describe everything in the in the movies or in the video and it all also, if it doesn't take you away from the actual video, like it doesn't affect your real life, if you can do it, to do it.

00:39:40:00 - 00:40:16:24
Speaker 3
If not, just let it be later when you are better at this, Percy, Because once you start doing it, you'll start to. That's what he told me too, and that's all I've seen in the past two. With other people, you start to realize what is useful and what isn't, which is a really powerful skill in my opinion. If you know what it is, useful to you, you know, to repeat it, if you know what's not useful to, you know, to not repeat it, you start to basically rate your life, say, which for some people might they might like you, they might not.

00:40:17:10 - 00:40:37:07
Speaker 3
Because once you start doing this, you realize how many useful, useful and useless things we do especially use. Useless because as always, negative emotions are more powerful than positive ones. So when you when you feel useless, you'll feel you'll feel a lot worse than when you feel good that you did something good.

00:40:38:22 - 00:41:04:12
Speaker 2
And what's so bad about realizing or recognizing that it may be hard at first? It might be, you know, really tough to face that you're out. I kind of associated with this might be a little off topic, but my experience with psychedelics draw connections and associations to things you might not otherwise, you know, associate it together and it makes you it shows you the good, the bad and the ugly.

00:41:04:15 - 00:41:36:12
Speaker 2
Like if you're not mentally prepared to face reality without the filter of, you know, your emotions, then it can be rather unsettling. And I always recommend deep work that goes into the proper. Exactly exactly. Almost cleanser your body and mind, you know, because if if you're, you know, bogged down through use of drugs and you're not mentally clear, you're about you know, you're not in good health, then those are all things that might distract from that internal experience.

00:41:36:19 - 00:41:47:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, it could be hard taken, taking a tough look at, you know, what matters in life and what makes a difference, you know, what makes you feel good versus what makes you feel bad. But I can imagine you can use that to your advantage.

00:41:48:06 - 00:42:10:14
Speaker 3
And it is certainly a big advantage. But for someone who isn't stable at the moment or someone who just isn't ready at that moment, it's not something to be about. It's just it will be hard and you have to accept that and make sure you know all the consequences that go from that.

00:42:11:16 - 00:42:13:08
Speaker 2
Okay. Fair warning.

00:42:14:01 - 00:42:28:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. I think a lot of people can benefit from being more consciously aware, which is essentially what lucidity is. You have more chances of being lucid in a dream, the more lucid and consciously aware you are and waking up your actions and is more present.

00:42:28:11 - 00:42:52:15
Speaker 3
As you get more advanced, you'll start to actually do it subconsciously. And once you start doing subconsciously, that's what I believe at least, and that's what I've seen in two other people. I think they started to have lucid dreams more often, naturally, because they would just know, Oh, I did. I like in the subconscious I did this. And the step before that was that.

00:42:52:15 - 00:43:12:14
Speaker 3
And the step before that was that and the step and so on and so on. And you could trace every action. And that way in a dream, when you have this skill per say, automatic. You'll start to think of all the actions you did in a dream and you realized every, every action started to when you when you went to sleep and you'll know you were you went to sleep.

00:43:12:19 - 00:43:30:24
Speaker 3
So you'll be in the dream. That's how I see it personally. That's why I'm treating all the awareness and meditation is really important parts for actual achieving lucidity in a healthy and constant way. I know my actions before going to sleep in my sleep.

00:43:32:12 - 00:43:36:12
Speaker 1
So you are conscious throughout the whole process of falling asleep like.

00:43:36:14 - 00:43:36:21
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:43:37:05 - 00:43:44:15
Speaker 1
Like completely conscious. All those have drowsy dreams and then as soon as the dream starts, you're still actually worth it.

00:43:44:24 - 00:44:12:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's. It's a continuous process. I actually talked to the night owl yesterday about this, and I was falling asleep. I was pretty tired, and before I went to sleep, I could leave the dream without being asleep. I would note the actions I was doing without actually seeing per say. I felt when my body went numb. I felt when my head went numb to I felt when I couldn't move anything anymore.

00:44:12:15 - 00:44:49:05
Speaker 3
I felt when my vision went completely dark. I'm not sure if that's something that's common or not. When I go into that space of not having any more body functions, let's say, or controlled by the action actions, my mind goes wild and it starts to produce a lot of shapes and colors. And just like in the psychedelic way you say, and it does that automatic, like when I'm really close to going to sleep and this right before this thing with the forms and colors my dreams, that's when I would have seen at least my dream start.

00:44:49:13 - 00:45:07:00
Speaker 3
And they can hear voices in my head. I can hear actions happening. I can hear I can feel actions happening. I can feel myself reacting to the dream world without being in it. I guess like the loathing I am aware in the loathing of the world.

00:45:07:09 - 00:45:08:01
Speaker 2
Interesting.

00:45:08:01 - 00:45:28:23
Speaker 3
I think that that's the best way to describe it. When they wake up, it's just a transition. It's just boom, you're awake and I'm not sure why I talk to the people all of this, but I never had the sleep paralysis, never in my life. I never had woke up and couldn't control my body and started to hallucinate.

00:45:28:23 - 00:45:49:04
Speaker 3
Or when however you describe sleep paralysis, it never happened to me. I wake up, I have control. I decide to stay in bed because that's what they like. But I have control. I am there, I am awake, my mind is there. My eyes don't usually work in the morning. I have a problem with that. But that's a medical problem.

00:45:49:17 - 00:46:22:15
Speaker 2
So what I think may be associated with some sort of REM eternia and we've discussed before how you enter REM periods much sooner than, you know, the average person, which typically takes around 90 minutes of sleep. And there are such things as REM rebound, but you describe that you get plenty of sleep normally, right? And that, yeah, you're not necessarily drowning out, you know, your subconscious with, you know, stimulants or depressants or anything like that.

00:46:22:15 - 00:46:31:05
Speaker 2
So tell us a little bit more about, you know, the biological component here and maybe we can get into a little debate about nature versus nurture.

00:46:32:01 - 00:47:00:04
Speaker 3
Well, I used to have a watch smart smartwatch with each, which it would track my sleep. I think more than 90% of the data of every night I've seen was said that I started REM in a maximum of 20 minutes from when I started sleeping, a maximum of 20. Most of them were 15, 14, 17, and that's range, maybe some 23, but still under half an hour.

00:47:00:04 - 00:47:20:16
Speaker 3
All of them. And I'm not sure if that's common and they're not from what I heard, it's not. You can see how it starts at like 17 minutes. It goes for like 15 minutes, then normal sleep another ten and then again 5 minutes of REM and so on and so on. I'm not really sure how that works and it goes throughout the whole night.

00:47:20:22 - 00:47:33:04
Speaker 3
There was there was, I think in the one they've sent, there was a gap of like 2 hours of no REM, like in the middle of the sleep there was that that's when the deep sleep went.

00:47:34:04 - 00:47:57:04
Speaker 2
Have you ever had any difficulty with digestion or, let's say, physical healing or like if you exercise, do you experience like extended periods of soreness or anything like that? Because I'm wondering if there's some sort of physical effect on your lack of deep sleep. Like, have you ever been sick for an extended period of time?

00:47:57:04 - 00:48:04:14
Speaker 3
No, I'm I'm a really healthy person in general, except the fact that I'm a bit overweight. Otherwise I'm completely healthy.

00:48:04:23 - 00:48:09:17
Speaker 2
But no real specific issues with my intestinal you know.

00:48:10:16 - 00:48:19:16
Speaker 3
I think I have a and I have an incredibly healthy diet. No, I don't. I have I have have the worst nightmare. I eat a lot of.

00:48:20:03 - 00:48:20:08
Speaker 2
Bad.

00:48:20:08 - 00:48:45:09
Speaker 3
Things and they know I do. But I love them and I can't really hold myself on that. When I was active, I would get some really, really, really good sleep. I sleep full 8 hours every night with a really good schedule and everything, but I guess that that's what being active also helps you a lot. And that's well, that's why I think it's really important to be physically active, just even even just going for an everyday.

00:48:45:15 - 00:49:08:05
Speaker 3
It helps you a lot. I hate running personally biking if that if that works better for you, just do anything that's remotely active. We live so much in our houses, especially now with a lot of people just working from home. We still have physical bodies. We still need to train them. We still need to do something with them, otherwise they'll just go bad for us.

00:49:08:20 - 00:49:14:21
Speaker 2
Are there any other biological components you associate with? You know, the uniqueness of your condition?

00:49:15:15 - 00:49:38:16
Speaker 3
I'm not sure if that's all that's really associated. I think it has something to do with the clarity of my dreams. But I have extremely good eyesight, even though I wear glasses. These are just for my computer so I can keep my eyesight. I have extremely, extremely good eye sight. I can see things from really far out and really clearly, and I can read texts from a huge distance.

00:49:39:06 - 00:49:56:20
Speaker 3
I'm not sure maybe that might have something to do with the clarity of my dreams. Maybe. I don't know. Because if in general my life is really clear, I guess my dreams will be clear. So I think I would really be interested to see if people with really bad I say they have fuzzy dreams like Lucy. Fuzzy dreams.

00:49:57:02 - 00:50:04:11
Speaker 2
Actually. Topic of discussion with somebody else that appeared as an anomaly through this experiment. Skyfall Blind Dreamer.

00:50:05:07 - 00:50:05:20
Speaker 3
Oh yeah.

00:50:06:04 - 00:50:39:12
Speaker 2
With me extensively about how dreams are and sort of like the mental projections that he experiences, he he went blind at an early age. He wasn't born blind. So one of the things that we've discussed is what to do. His dreams, quote unquote, look like. You know, it's very much the same as his experience. Normal waking life. The best way I can describe it is he lives in the world's largest memory palace everywhere he can.

00:50:40:12 - 00:51:25:17
Speaker 2
He's making associations about textures and sounds and the context surrounding, you know, where he's at and why or who else is there or the function of a place, you know, smells all of it. So it's interesting that your visual acuity lends itself to, you know, your ability to visualize and to dream. But in his case and I don't want to speak on his behalf too much, but the way he describes it is the lack of visual input allows him to organize his thoughts in such a linear way that it carries over to the content of his dreams.

00:51:26:03 - 00:51:32:01
Speaker 2
And it very much is the same mental experience as if he were awake. Okay.

00:51:32:13 - 00:51:36:09
Speaker 3
Really interesting. He doesn't have any visual cues right?

00:51:37:04 - 00:51:37:16
Speaker 2
He does.

00:51:37:16 - 00:51:39:05
Speaker 3
He doesn't. Oh, he does.

00:51:39:14 - 00:52:13:09
Speaker 2
He describes it very much as and this may just be one aspect of it, but he says things have light and dark shades. Mm hmm. And that could be based on several factors like depth, for example, or in sound, you know, something may appear brighter and, you know, his his mental map, That's that's the best way I need to, you know, have many more conversations to really understand what that is like in so many ways.

00:52:13:09 - 00:52:35:04
Speaker 2
We describe the world through a visual sense that in talking with him, first of all, I had to politely ask him to slow down because he was just he was like three chapters ahead of me. Whereas I'm like still trying to like pass words on a single page. And he's just so quick witted and intelligent with everything he talks about.

00:52:35:04 - 00:52:55:14
Speaker 2
He has memories from, you know, years, if not decades, passed that he can pull up like a filing cabinet and, you know, make know so many quantum connections there that, you know, it's very interesting to hear what a dream is like without that visual nature.

00:52:56:06 - 00:53:24:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's crazy. You know, everybody perceives the world differently and everybody dreams differently. Some people have a visual narrative. Some people dream and abstract thoughts or just even image flashes, not like a video type narrative experience. Some people even dream in black and white. I was talking to somebody today that how to grayscale dreams. And okay, another thing I've noticed is I normally dream as myself as the dream character, but some people are always a random dream avatar.

00:53:24:12 - 00:53:53:09
Speaker 2
I've been a different person and a dream. The best way I can rationalize it was it was like a past life or something. Like it was very much me in a different body with different past experiences and like everything about who I was as a person changed. It was like reading a good book with a strong narrative voice and you just sort of inhabit that character no matter what else to make of it.

00:53:53:22 - 00:54:12:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's it's pretty common actually, for me to just go into other characters bodies and for me, they're actually true answers to their thoughts and their emotions. I'm not really sure how to describe that other than just a loathing, you know, another that I don't.

00:54:12:12 - 00:54:16:17
Speaker 1
That's still you making conscious, lucid decisions. Just kind of with this.

00:54:16:17 - 00:54:47:23
Speaker 3
I feel like it's like I am controlling something that has complete connection to me. So it can it connects completely in regards to feelings, to sensations, to everything. But I still have some part of the feel of the conscious me. My conscious me is not the this one. It's not this bearded, the better looking guy. It's just something I can't really describe it.

00:54:48:10 - 00:54:58:14
Speaker 3
And it has no shape, no color, no sense, no anything. It's just there. It's my thoughts that are the consciousness inside my head.

00:54:58:19 - 00:55:18:21
Speaker 1
The clear light of consciousness is what the Buddhist would call it. And I think it's kind of like when you play a video game, you know, you have your self and you have the dream character or the avatar. And I think our waking life works a lot like that in terms of like our inner consciousness that is beyond just our physical body that we choose to play.

00:55:19:11 - 00:55:43:23
Speaker 3
That's why I never really, really cared about looks or anything regarding to other people. I try as much as I can to not judge people based on that because it's just one really small, extremely small thing that describes a person. It's just it's inconsequential. It doesn't matter how someone looks or feels or what they think is the most important about a person.

00:55:43:23 - 00:56:18:02
Speaker 3
That's how I'm looking at other people, too, is what they see and what they do, because I can't know what they're thinking. Of course, but those are the direct effects of what they're thinking. That's what I'm looking most at. If I see someone that says, Oh, I'm all good, I'm all whatever and they hurt people, or they are mean, consciously mean that I don't want to hang out with that person because that means that their thoughts are I mean, that's how I see it and that's how I try to see myself through.

00:56:18:02 - 00:56:39:13
Speaker 3
I try to as much as I can to not. And I think that's one of my because I like I have some big personality rules that I don't I try as much as I can to not to not go over. Yeah. So one of those ways just I should never lie to myself And that's, that's a that's a big thing for me.

00:56:39:13 - 00:57:12:04
Speaker 3
If I find no something is better for me, even though I cry to other people about it. I love to, to be able to cry myself a little to other people I like. I like attention as well as anyone does, but I don't do it just because I just want attention. They just I feel then I always feel that needs to be understood and they always try to express myself as clear as I can, even though sometimes it doesn't work as best they want because you have thoughts and then they have words.

00:57:12:11 - 00:57:18:20
Speaker 3
They are two different things. They don't translate always perfectly how you want it, and that's completely normal.

00:57:19:08 - 00:57:50:05
Speaker 2
One of my favorite Buddhist koans is your thoughts become your words, Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your character and your character becomes you. And you know, it starts with just a thought. And although your words aren't the whole story, right, it makes up, you know, a fraction of that projection. It sounds like, you know, you and I could get together and have a good cry about some of the more meaningful moments in our life.

00:57:50:05 - 00:58:10:11
Speaker 2
I've never cried so much as a first time parent. I have no idea why. It was like this. Last year has been such an emotional rollercoaster. Maybe you in part to a lack of sleep, but I'm wondering if there are quirks you have about you that I haven't quite explored yet. Like, have you taken any personality or IQ tests?

00:58:10:17 - 00:58:36:01
Speaker 3
I have either six personalities. Once I found it as the most personally. Again, I find it as pretty comprehensive and I for me at least it was consistent, even though my answers would change like by a small percentage, because I always try again to stay true to myself and answer honestly as best to my as best as I can.

00:58:36:17 - 00:59:01:14
Speaker 3
I would always get the same personality I am I and TGT. I think it's cool. It's called the analyst, but the problem I have with it and that's I think the only problem is I'm a perfectly 5050 pivot. So I would sometimes get an I sometimes get an E like an extrovert or an introvert because I'm right in the middle of that spectrum.

00:59:01:14 - 00:59:03:11
Speaker 3
Exactly. Exactly in the middle.

00:59:03:22 - 00:59:05:10
Speaker 2
Okay, What about IQ?

00:59:06:03 - 00:59:38:09
Speaker 3
The IQ tests? Sidedness. Sure. They are just on the Internet tests, so they're not completely trustworthy. I guess like they they clearly have some good things about them. And from what I've heard, IQ tests in general are one of the most researched, like psychometrics in psychology. I mean, they can, if you can confirm that or denied or they heard, the IQ itself has been studied every ever since, like the 19 tens.

00:59:38:22 - 01:00:04:13
Speaker 3
And one of the requirements to join the US Army is taking an IQ test. And you haven't. If you have an IQ under 83, you're not allowed to join the army, which is pretty weird. Regarding IQ itself, the ones I did, the results I got were around 135, which I believe to be pretty credible. I'm a pretty brainy guy.

01:00:04:18 - 01:00:13:08
Speaker 3
I know a lot of things. I love physicists, so that's a that's a pretty normal thing, I guess, to have a bit higher than normal.

01:00:13:23 - 01:00:36:00
Speaker 2
I would love to hear more about this nature versus nurture because it sounds like you have so many aspects of your waking life that lend themselves to lucidity. It's hard for me to really say affirmative, you are omni because you were born this way, or there's some kind of biological component that makes you, you know, such a rare breed.

01:00:36:12 - 01:01:09:07
Speaker 2
The only thing I've heard throughout our conversation today is your REM rem eternia and the speed at which you enter REM as much sooner than the average person, but so many other things like your all day awareness, practicing meditation, you know, your profession, your personality, your IQ, they all seem to be associated with higher levels of lucidity and waking life, which also transitions to the dream.

01:01:10:05 - 01:01:30:14
Speaker 2
And you've been doing this at such an early age, right? It's like somebody like me. I've been studying this for just over a decade now, and it's come and gone in waves due to personal life choices. And and, you know, just my ability to focus on it. I'm wondering if this is something we can cultivate, you know, from you.

01:01:30:24 - 01:01:58:01
Speaker 2
You know, if we just figure out which, you know, traits are associated with lucidity, you know, it's like if I could teach that to somebody from an early age and ultimately produce an Omni, or is this something that, you know, there is a some sort of hereditary notion to be acknowledged? I'd like to hear more about your parents even and what their relationship was like with their dreams.

01:01:58:01 - 01:02:18:22
Speaker 2
You know, at an early age, you were having such mind bending experiences and nightmares that appeared maybe even traumatizing at times for such a young person. How did your parents treat these experiences? Did they ever have in-depth conversations with you about their own dreams or what they mean and how you should handle them?

01:02:19:15 - 01:02:36:00
Speaker 3
When I was a kid, my parents, whenever I had a nightmare that's what they told me. At least I don't really have much of a memory back then since I was so young. But they told me that they would just call me, tell me it's all a dream and it's fine. It's okay. And they would like to get me back to sleep.

01:02:36:00 - 01:03:08:16
Speaker 3
If I couldn't go to sleep, they would just take me in the car and go for a quick drive for give me to sleep. That was a quick check that they had with me. No, they wouldn't treat dreams as a special thing. They were true to just, Oh, it's an everyday thing that happens to everyone. I found out two weeks ago that my father is also basically an Omni is not completely in control like I am because I guess he didn't have an interest in an interest in trying to do that.

01:03:09:11 - 01:03:33:18
Speaker 3
But he says at least that he knows he's dreaming. He knows what he's dreaming, he knows what his actions are. In the dream, my father always would always, always tell me that actions have consequences. And he always taught me to think of my actions as much as I can and balance things out and try to think of things as thoroughly as I can.

01:03:33:18 - 01:03:41:21
Speaker 3
And I think that's what might have also been a factor in my Omni and my actual awareness, I guess. Yeah, he basically trained me.

01:03:42:09 - 01:03:47:01
Speaker 1
Even if you didn't know he was Omni and he was passing on the it's a thought process to, you know.

01:03:47:18 - 01:03:47:23
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:03:48:02 - 01:04:10:05
Speaker 3
He, he's exactly like that. He thinks of everything so thoroughly and every single bit, every single little target, every single idea he has to go through it completely like, no, I'm, I'm trying to move to Finland and he's going to help me with moving and he keeps calling me everyday. Have you thought of this? Have you thought of this?

01:04:10:05 - 01:04:34:03
Speaker 3
Have thought of this every single day? Every single day. And you think they have to take into account. And that's how the way he is and that's what I am doing. But in a more mellow way than he is my mind to get to that point when I'm at his age, I guess. But I think he started it this way, too, with trying to be aware of his actions and be aware of what he does.

01:04:34:16 - 01:04:59:15
Speaker 2
I would also say parenthood is also it's a very I think that think of taking your heart and just ripping it out of your chest and and putting it in the little person's hands and hoping that they just, you know, do well with it. That that constant, you know, let's call it overly analytical or self-critical mindset is now imparted onto another person because you're responsible for them.

01:05:00:06 - 01:05:24:06
Speaker 2
And even then that stays with you, right? So it's almost heightened in a sense, because you don't have that aspect of control. And I also would like to mention that, you know, through this experiment, I've been recruiting friends and family as much as possible to get involved because we do need a larger control group to balance out the amount of people who want to participate, which is great.

01:05:24:14 - 01:05:45:14
Speaker 2
But I keep getting on my father. I'm like, You need to do your survey. You need to do this, and you do that. And he's like, Oh, I don't need to do this. I already I already know I'm dreaming. And we got into a conversation about, you know, what his dreams are like. And it seems from an early age he claims to have some sort of omni condition, which may or may not explain my own affinity towards lucidity.

01:05:46:01 - 01:06:08:23
Speaker 2
But then I got to wondering, especially in talking with you, Nuke, how do I know that's what he's really experiencing? Like, I don't want to be dismissive. I don't want to that you don't know that you're dreaming like you don't really know what that means. But in talking with him, it seems he actually might. I mean, there's definitely a lack of control, you know, he explains, Oh, I just know it's a dream.

01:06:08:23 - 01:06:28:11
Speaker 2
I just, you know, I'll go along with it. Or like, if I wake up, I can, you know, control what I dream about. Or I can steer I can slightly steer. You know, it seems like he's definitely lacking in control, but you don't have to have any control or clarity even to recognize that it's a dream, which is the definition of lucidity.

01:06:28:24 - 01:07:01:15
Speaker 2
And so the probing about his parents and what their relationship with dreams were like, and it seems his mother had abnormal dream recall. And she explained it in a spiritual way. She thought she was psychic because she had so many experiences that seem to repeat themselves in waking life. So I'm just wondering, how do we really go about, you know, sorting out the true omni from people who just sort of don't know how to relate to their dreams?

01:07:01:23 - 01:07:31:23
Speaker 3
That's a really hard question, to be honest, because unfortunately, dreams happen only in our heads. There are experiments which can prove someone's lucidity, but most of them are really expensive. Yeah, they are definitive, They work and they certainly prove. But they are time consuming. They are. They are pretty energy wasteful. They're really expensive. So the actual laboratory tests are pretty hard to do.

01:07:32:19 - 01:08:05:04
Speaker 3
I'm still thinking of ways to actually prove someone's lucidity, the way this credit before, and I think it still stands, is the emotion when you're describing things you can't really like when you're talking about something. If you have emotion unless you're a psychopath or something like that. Yeah, you can't really lie or to your emotions or yourself. Basically, if their emotions show that what they're saying is true, it's really, really hard to change that.

01:08:05:04 - 01:08:28:16
Speaker 3
That's true. One way to could be, but then again, it can be warped to make them do some tests like, oh, tonight, tomorrow night in the third night, you're going to keep a dream journal and you're going to dream of exactly this thing. Maybe he will or he will not do it in a true manner.

01:08:29:04 - 01:08:41:22
Speaker 2
Let me ask you something. This might be a little off topic, but it resonated with what you said. What is more rare and omni lucid or psychopath or sociopath? You know, depending on your definition.

01:08:42:11 - 01:08:48:20
Speaker 3
I'm not sure of the percentages. I know psychopaths are under 1% of the population.

01:08:49:07 - 01:08:49:11
Speaker 2
MM.

01:08:50:22 - 01:09:09:20
Speaker 3
And numbers are from what I heard. Then again, don't take me into, don't take my words for granted. I that's just what they heard from the Internet. It's information that is not verified. I have heard it's around like one in 500,000. One in a million people have only naturally.

01:09:10:06 - 01:09:45:00
Speaker 2
Even less people. Yeah. So it would it would fair to reason and and I hope that the people in this experiment acknowledge this statement if we did in fact naturally discover omni lucid through our sampling. Right. Which was a very diligent process of itself that we may or may not have come across a potential psychopath who gets off on the invitation of such a condition and convincing of others in order to fit in or for whatever, you know, let's say, malicious intent.

01:09:45:21 - 01:10:11:04
Speaker 2
I myself looked into some of these numbers and obviously the data can be skewed because not all psychopaths commit crimes. You know, some of the bodies are, you know, connecting to, let's say, you know, people who got caught, you know, as opposed to people who found out. And I mean, you know, that that in that way. So maybe the is higher than what it's revealed to be.

01:10:11:14 - 01:10:40:08
Speaker 2
But again, from my experience with dreaming in and of itself and dream recall and lucidity, I would argue that's more rare. And you know, I would ultimately argue that many more studies have been done on, you know, the psychoanalysis people in that social context than what what we've delved into with dreams. Yeah. So just just something to think about, something that highly concerns me and my protective nature.

01:10:40:08 - 01:11:05:03
Speaker 2
I'm also highly paranoid and I have come across some people who seem to have bad intentions for this study and, you know, the sake of a community. And I'm just wondering how, you know, how can we verify somebody's account without access to a lab setting? Personality may be one thing, IQ may be another. Obviously, you can't really fake that.

01:11:05:03 - 01:11:17:22
Speaker 2
Right? How are you going to cheat on an IQ test or how are you going to fake MSE? But there are other unconventional ways we've discussed, such as transhumanism or the utilization sleep tech.

01:11:18:11 - 01:11:59:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's one of the things I really want to see if that can give us some insight because if just by analyzing someone's sleep cycles, we can verify if they actually have dreams, that would be really powerful because now smartwatches are like really, really cheap or really cheap. They are pretty cheap. We do each put it in the phone or most the gadgets we use and they have this built in feature which most of the people are like, Oh look, it's a cute graph, but it might have some meaning behind it for sure is the meaning behind it.

01:11:59:22 - 01:12:06:24
Speaker 3
And if there was a way we could find that can prove lucidity, that would be really, really powerful, I believe.

01:12:07:07 - 01:12:33:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I definitely think the future is going in that direction. And the other things I think as well is that, you know, of course people can lie and say, Oh yeah, I'm lucid in every day just because I think it's cool. But you know, like, like a lucid dreamer, I'm sure it's similar with Omnis. You can kind of recognize by talking enough to somebody if you sit down for 2 hours and talk to somebody about your dream experiences and ask them questions, you can recognize like, Oh yeah, they know what I'm talking about.

01:12:33:06 - 01:12:51:13
Speaker 1
They know this feeling, you know? So that's one way. And it's really just kind of like a community verification type of thing. And then another thing I mentioned to you before, which is done in a lab where you just have a partner looking at you sleeping and you try to do experiments across gorgeousness. When you see that they're in REM, you can tell the eyes and moving back and forth.

01:12:51:21 - 01:13:10:23
Speaker 1
And a lot of people have had success with like muscle twitches or certain things that they're previously agreed upon for the dream or to do while lucid in the dream, you know, like move your eyes a certain way or muscle twitch a certain amount of times or whatever to confirm. Like, yeah, I'm lucid and I hear you and I'm confirming that I'm lucid right now.

01:13:11:04 - 01:13:19:14
Speaker 1
And of course that's not easy to do, you know, because the person has to get lucid. But, you know, for someone like you that's lucid in every dream, you know, you could try this every day if you wanted to.

01:13:20:04 - 01:13:43:15
Speaker 3
I remember that. Actually, I said that I tried with my best friend to check with REM. We started like this thing with how I would respond to sleep. But he never he said that he never actually checked my eyes, but he said it would make a lot of sense because I always respond when I'm sleeping. If he said, Move, move over.

01:13:43:15 - 01:13:54:02
Speaker 3
And that was in complete sleep, I was full snoring and everything. I would just move over because I was aware of what he was telling me and I would be able to move paralysis.

01:13:54:06 - 01:14:01:08
Speaker 2
The lack of sleep paralysis is a persistent trait across many lizards, if that's something that they feel.

01:14:02:08 - 01:14:07:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, everyone's expressions life differently. So it's normal, Everyone experiences dreams differently.

01:14:07:22 - 01:14:29:22
Speaker 2
I really like with what Ameena said about a trial by committee, right? Almost like it takes one to know one, right? Yeah, But unless you've gotten to know one so well that. That you are able to imitate their thoughts and their feelings and the way they express things. You know, you've just found certain triggers to really connect with somebody.

01:14:31:01 - 01:15:00:18
Speaker 2
I feel like we could almost employ, you know, multiple methods to at least validate somebody's experience, like using technology to track REM periods, having a visual observer, you know, to also see if you're able to respond consciously during sleep, measuring similarities and, personality or IQ or, you know, let's say, profession and your daily habits and all these things.

01:15:00:18 - 01:15:08:15
Speaker 2
My work is more of like a comprehensive understanding towards lucidity in general and not just necessarily what it means to be on me.

01:15:08:16 - 01:15:27:02
Speaker 1
Yes, that's so true. There's so much possibilities there because lucidity is already hard enough to study in a lab because you have to have somebody with frequent lucidity in the lab on a designated night, which is difficult already to do. So if you have somebody who's automatically lucid in every dream, you can study so many things about lucidity alone.

01:15:27:02 - 01:15:30:18
Speaker 1
You have a chance every time you fall asleep to, you know.

01:15:31:02 - 01:15:32:08
Speaker 3
Experiment with something new.

01:15:32:20 - 01:15:45:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. So that's I think that offers a really unique opportunity for the future of lucid dreaming. It's really cool to meet all these people. I know you found a community of other people like you, so it's cool to gather them up and see what.

01:15:45:21 - 01:15:47:14
Speaker 3
It's like to have people.

01:15:48:12 - 01:15:49:03
Speaker 1
So cool.

01:15:49:03 - 01:15:52:02
Speaker 3
About Mobile Grove to look in the community because.

01:15:52:08 - 01:15:53:07
Speaker 1
I'm sure there's more.

01:15:54:00 - 01:16:17:16
Speaker 3
Yeah, for sure there are more like and there are a lot of people who don't don't know about it. And just, just like I was like I didn't know that other people don't have this. So there are, there might be some people who might just, oh, I don't have that. I don't have dreams. I don't know, I'm dreaming with what's happening and so on.

01:16:17:16 - 01:16:39:21
Speaker 3
And they start going through the loophole and what they found the time when they I started to learn about this is that I was feeling really isolated. I felt like no one really understands what I was going through per say, like it wasn't like a trauma or something. It just people couldn't understand what I was. I was telling them.

01:16:40:08 - 01:17:05:08
Speaker 3
I would tell them, Oh, I had a dream where I was completely aware and I went flying and then they went and destroyed the whole building just by knocking my, my fingers and all those things. And they were like, What are you crazy? You just inventing things. And it's really hard on someone's psyche to just dismiss an experience that they felt and that they went through.

01:17:05:19 - 01:17:40:20
Speaker 3
And that's one of the also one of the reasons I really want to find as many people as I can with this, because it's such a uncommon experience that you want find people that easily that have the same thing as you do. You will find a lot of people that have the exact opposite, and that's totally okay. But after you'll start to see that everyone keeps talking about the same subject in the same way and you have a completely different view, you'll feel isolated.

01:17:41:15 - 01:18:08:12
Speaker 2
Well, I can tell you that I'm so glad to have met you new and so glad that you are willing participate in our rudimentary experiment. Right. Because so many things that, you know, regular dreamers take for granted, you know, you you would appreciate and vice versa. Right? You don't necessarily have to have a dream journal. You don't necessarily have to practice any methods.

01:18:08:12 - 01:18:42:21
Speaker 2
Right. You may have habits that are conducive to your lucidity, but your experience is vastly different from somebody who is just learning about this topic and trying to figure out what works for them. So by you participating, we can really sort of define what your data looks like against somebody who isn't having that success with lucidity. I hope that we can continue to grow a community and to make more people aware of not just omni, but of lucidity, and maybe even more importantly, dreams.

01:18:42:21 - 01:19:10:14
Speaker 2
Because it almost seems like as a culture worldwide, we've reached a phase in our civilization where we've diminished dreams. I'm very interested to see how the results are affected by Eastern versus Western cultural differences, perhaps to dig deeper there and to see how nature versus nurture may play a role in our relationship to our dreams. But let me say that I myself can resonate.

01:19:10:14 - 01:19:33:11
Speaker 2
You know, I might not know exactly how you feel, but being such an advocate for lucid dreaming, I have nobody to talk to about this. I can't you know, even my dad, who claims to have this persistent realm of his own and, you know, for years he's felt like, you know, dreams were just, you know, a fact of life.

01:19:33:21 - 01:20:25:13
Speaker 2
I never even had that conversation with him before asking him to fill out a brief survey about how he slept. You know, and friends, family seem very disinterested with the topic because, again, culture culturally, it may be that we've we just don't value it as much as I believe we should. So in hopes of building a greater community who believes in being as inclusive as possible, is there anything else you would want to say to a potential Army dreamer who may or may not be listening in order to convince them of your condition and in hopes of like recruiting them to join us and spreading this message and reaching out to more people?

01:20:25:20 - 01:20:49:24
Speaker 3
Well, I have a two pretty conflicting views on this. One of them is reach out to people and try to make them understand and, make them make sure they know what they're going through, because even though that might might not be such a hurtful thing to do, but after a while, it might start to get worse and worse and you need people around you.

01:20:50:11 - 01:21:18:23
Speaker 3
But then again, for a nominee and I guess those that went through this will understand is is true only, you know, you have only yourself in your head. So the only person that can actually hold you is yourself. And if you don't allow yourself to feel isolated, you won't feel it if you don't allow yourself to feel Pese not bad, because that that might might be and might not be controllable.

01:21:19:01 - 01:21:41:15
Speaker 3
I'm still trying to experiment with that, but through all you can, at least for me, I can. Most of my feelings and most of the way I'm going through life That way I don't feel the effects as powerful as some other people do, even though I'm I'm a really, really empathetic guy, I, I cry a lot, to be honest.

01:21:41:15 - 01:22:04:17
Speaker 3
Like, I get really emotional about things, which I guess is also a consequence of the fact that I have a pretty bleak view on life. I guess that's okay. If you feel like you have a bedtime with yourself and your dreams or whatever, just as an only, just just change it. Just just do it. Don't wait for others to.

01:22:05:01 - 01:22:25:03
Speaker 3
Come and give you a hand. Do it yourself. You have the power to do it for sure. Do if you if you have control of it. If you don't, just reach out to people, you never know where help comes from. That's that's what they want to see. Even someone random from the street might give you the best advice you'll ever hear in your life.

01:22:25:18 - 01:22:52:22
Speaker 3
Someone completely random. You just tells you some random idea which resonates with you so hard that you won't even believe it. So reach out to people. Reach out to anyone you can. If you have a bad time, you have if you feel isolated, anything. And I don't mean this just for randomly. I for everyone who has a bedtime, if you resonates with what I'm telling you, you can always find me on one of the discord of.

01:22:52:22 - 01:23:17:01
Speaker 3
The experiment. Just nuclear stardust is the same as my name. Send the message. I'm always, anytime And I'm always open to private messages. And I'm always open to listen to anyone. Absolutely anyone. People needs to learn to speak up, to speak up their problems, to speak up their feelings. And that's what I'm trying to to do with myself and to my friends and to everyone I'm speaking to.

01:23:17:12 - 01:23:41:05
Speaker 3
Otherwise you'll just go through life like a robot, talking to the regular dreams Dreamers has been a really it has revealed to me a lot of things that I never experienced, but I would have loved to be honest. Like, let's say in their dream sharing and or whatever the subject that is have different views, which I always love about talking with people.

01:23:41:05 - 01:24:00:06
Speaker 3
That's why they that's why I don't really like people who agree with me, and that's why I don't agree with usually with people. I like to not agree with people because they like to spark a conversation. Then an actual argument starts to form and you learn from it and the other person from it. And viewing to different point of view.

01:24:00:06 - 01:24:28:14
Speaker 3
Like I view and myself with their not opposing, just different points of view can really teach both both people involved a lot of things I learned about what means and what it means to actually dream, what it means to leave and just go on with this. I can't do that. I simply can't. And that. So that can be really frustrating sometimes, but really, really frustrating.

01:24:28:14 - 01:25:02:13
Speaker 2
And it makes me think of the grass may not be greener on the other side it's it's green where you water it right Yeah. So yeah it's so interesting to have that perspective and to try to bridge the gap between, you know, novice dreamers and omni dreamers and really to figure out where our differences lie. I think if we can learn to celebrate those differences in ways that can foster understanding, you know, we can all become that much closer for, you know, just having that discussion.

01:25:02:22 - 01:25:29:02
Speaker 2
I myself like good debate. Right. And arguments are okay, too. As long as you fight fair and always remember that there is no one answer, especially when it comes to dreaming. We all have this internal subjective experience. How can we make it more objective, right? What can we do in order to better understand each other? And you've really helped me a lot with that.

01:25:29:10 - 01:25:56:20
Speaker 2
You've helped people understand and awareness and mindfulness and a plethora of ways since joining the experiment and I'm really looking forward to your course on meditation because you've given me some good insights there. And just recently I did a poll about how many people would be interested in learning more about meditation, and it's actually the most overwhelmingly positive poll I've taken so far.

01:25:56:23 - 01:26:24:21
Speaker 2
I Meditate for my own reasons. I struggle with anger issues. And you mentioned your mother. I'm also asthmatic and I have to meditate every day to gain better control of my breath. I don't like depending on any sort of medication because I've found that it is an addiction in and of itself. It's not not to undermine the beauty of medicine, but it's amazing what you can do with the power of your mind.

01:26:25:13 - 01:26:33:21
Speaker 2
And you know something as unconscious as the breath really can be tamed in a way through your conscious awareness.

01:26:34:01 - 01:27:03:02
Speaker 3
Totally. That's how I want to help the others, not necessarily in lucidity and awareness. Just meditation can improve your life in so many ways that you can't even imagine it. Once You start to actually do it, except it's to say you start to orient yourself during the day in a different way. You search for the moments of insight in search, of the moments of silence, and just talk with yourself.

01:27:03:21 - 01:27:23:12
Speaker 3
That's what that's what I think the most important thing from lucidity eight meditation, everything. By doing any of these, you learn so much more about yourself. And that's, after all, there's the most important person in your world. And let's you have a kid, I guess.

01:27:25:06 - 01:27:26:04
Speaker 2
Well, yeah.

01:27:26:04 - 01:27:43:03
Speaker 3
It's is the person you can actually learn is the only person you can truly, truly learn it yourself. And if you don't do it, it's a shame because you lose on so many things and so many interesting ways you can interact with yourself.

01:27:43:21 - 01:27:50:00
Speaker 2
It makes me think of the, you know, we only have access to 10% of our brain line, which isn't accurate, right?

01:27:50:01 - 01:27:51:10
Speaker 3
It's not that accurate at all. Yeah.

01:27:52:11 - 01:28:19:18
Speaker 2
There's more active periods depending on your state of consciousness, right? It's almost like if if we did only have access to 10%. Right. Let's just humor that idea. Maybe, you know, some people have access to more like six or 7% and you can do certain things to become more aware of that of your ability. Right. And then also, you are the most important person in your world.

01:28:19:18 - 01:28:44:23
Speaker 2
I would argue that even above your children, you have to take care of yourself in order to take care of a person and in your relationship. So many people say, Oh, once you have that child, they come first, that they're number one, you know, you two don't matter anymore. And that's not necessarily true either, because it's almost as if that relationship between your parents is what sets the foundation for that childhood and their future.

01:28:45:07 - 01:29:10:10
Speaker 2
So although controversial, I would argue you have to always put yourself first. Yeah. So I think that lucidity is a great way to get to know yourself better and always try to apply the things you learn from within a dream and practical ways in your waking life. And so many people get wrapped up in the fantasy or superpowers and you know, and the manipulation of matter and all these other things.

01:29:10:10 - 01:29:39:16
Speaker 2
But what can you take away from that state of being apply to this world? Because the more you study lucidity, the more the lines get blurred. You sort of realize that, you know, there is some sort of unconscious manifestation happening in your real environment and how can you harness that ability? I'm not saying, you know, law of attraction, just think I'm going to be rich, I'm going to be rich, and it'll happen.

01:29:40:02 - 01:30:03:00
Speaker 2
But if you if you have this unconscious bias that, you know, money, evil, for example. Right. That's one thing I've had to overcome, is that, you know, money is greed. Money is, you know, corruption. Money is you're born with it or you're, you know, and then you do yourself a disservice, right? Because money is just a tool. And it's almost like a reflection of energy.

01:30:03:12 - 01:30:10:22
Speaker 2
Right So the way you define the world you live in can be understood better through exploring your own consciousness. That's. That's how I feel.

01:30:11:13 - 01:30:37:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, for sure. Oh, regarding the so the statement, the most important thing when you're raising your child is to give them the best view they can have about the world. If they have a bleak view, they will see the world in a bleak view for the whole life. And if you yourself are not in a good place, it's really hard to do that for them.

01:30:38:09 - 01:31:01:11
Speaker 3
And by knowing yourself and learning your problems and learning everything you can about yourself, you diminish that problem by a lot. A lot, a lot. And that's what I believe makes a good relationship between a in and his parents or her parents. Or you can learn so much about their self that you can help others understand you too.

01:31:02:00 - 01:31:23:12
Speaker 3
For example, when you have and I'm talking from my personal experience with my parents, but when you're dad's tells you something, tells you to do something and you don't understand where, he wants you to do that specifically. If you want to get your kids to actually do it, you just explain it to him. And if you are doing it in healthy way, he will do it.

01:31:23:19 - 01:31:31:19
Speaker 3
Kids know their parents don't want to do any harm to them. People don't like to be pushed around. And that's normal. That's completely normal.

01:31:32:11 - 01:32:07:20
Speaker 2
But one thing that that I've learned is to foster freedom of choice, right? It's almost right. You need to lead by example, right? Otherwise, you're a hypocrite. And they don't understand, you know, like if if my daughter's eating and I'm just staring at her forcing food down, she doesn't understand the context of what you know, she may or may not be hungry, but if I'm enjoying my meal next to her and sharing what I'm eating with her, you know, and providing options, then she's more likely to participate and get older.

01:32:07:20 - 01:32:35:06
Speaker 2
I'm always going to encourage, Would you want green beans or peas? Right. Because although vegetables are essential part of the food pyramid. Right. I still want her to feel like, okay, I'm you know, I still have an option here. And that's sort of how I look at the lens of parenthood is, you know, controlling factors that may be otherwise outside of your control, like whether she really does like green beans or she may like one more than the other.

01:32:35:18 - 01:32:49:17
Speaker 2
That's sort of how I approach that. But for for somebody who's, you know, 23 years old, very wise, beyond your years, you give me much to think about. And I always appreciate our conversations. So thank you.

01:32:50:10 - 01:32:58:02
Speaker 3
Anyway. Thanks. We love you will love all our conversations. Every single one. Yeah. It's 1:18 a.m. for you.

01:32:58:11 - 01:33:01:01
Speaker 1
Get some rest. Happy lucid dreams.

01:33:01:14 - 01:33:05:15
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, for sure. I'll try. I'll try the thing with the chest, I promise.

01:33:05:15 - 01:33:06:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I.

01:33:06:17 - 01:33:12:12
Speaker 3
I really want to sleep because I played in the last months. A lot of tears. A lot, a lot of tears.

01:33:12:19 - 01:33:13:08
Speaker 2
Please let me.

01:33:13:08 - 01:33:14:11
Speaker 1
Know how it goes.

01:33:15:00 - 01:33:17:00
Speaker 3
We really want to see what happens.

01:33:17:04 - 01:33:19:17
Speaker 2
You're going to play yourself. Is that work? Yeah. Yeah.

01:33:20:14 - 01:33:22:20
Speaker 3
I'm going to play myself in my. In my dream.

01:33:23:14 - 01:33:27:02
Speaker 2
Oh, Nuke, we need to play some chess, I.

01:33:27:02 - 01:33:27:18
Speaker 3
Feel with me.

01:33:27:23 - 01:33:36:16
Speaker 2
But I haven't played while. But there's a few people in that who who definitely are into it. Maybe we could even, like, have like a hosted tournament.

01:33:36:23 - 01:33:39:06
Speaker 3
Just tournaments. Yeah, that would be really cool.

01:33:39:17 - 01:33:50:24
Speaker 2
I'm unconventional. Mind that like I would. I will play mind games and in the context of the chessboard so very interested in exploiting your overly analytical brain.

01:33:51:10 - 01:34:05:07
Speaker 3
Oh yeah that that that really, really makes me lose a lot of his games because they overanalyze everything. And I'm like, I see the first move and then I'm like, Is this actually the best move? Is this even the right way?

01:34:05:08 - 01:34:07:07
Speaker 2
This is actually.

01:34:07:07 - 01:34:12:03
Speaker 3
The best way they start to lose so much time and there isn't time because of that. It's really annoying.

01:34:12:14 - 01:34:18:03
Speaker 2
How about 3D chess? Maybe we could learn that together. I've never done that. I played shot I.

01:34:18:16 - 01:34:20:20
Speaker 3
Right through the chess in my dream once.

01:34:22:18 - 01:34:55:14
Speaker 2
One thing I would love to work with you guys on is, let's say cultivating a population of lucid lab rats. Right? And now we're moving to a separate space where we can delve deeper into consciousness and lucidity. In particular, we're potentially employing more technology, more advanced experiments regarding lucidity, and we can start really recruiting some trusted, you know, founding members of of what I call the advanced class.

01:34:55:14 - 01:35:11:21
Speaker 2
And I'm really looking forward to seeing how the current participants and experiment one are going to translate to our, you know, future subjects and our other studies. And then I'll start practicing my chess game sometime tonight. So.

01:35:13:10 - 01:35:20:10
Speaker 3
Okay, I just lost my my subscription, so I thought.

01:35:20:23 - 01:35:21:15
Speaker 2
Okay, yeah.

01:35:22:04 - 01:35:22:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, you too.