EP46: Artificial Intelligence & Dream Analysis: Pros & Cons

AI technology is a hot topic these days as we are watching it evolve before our eyes. AI can be used in any industry, even dream work. An AI system for interpreting dreams could be abusive if it were treated as a higher psychological authority; as an oracle of truth rather than a helpful tool. However, there are also many benefits when used correctly. Can a computer program interpret your dreams? If it could, would that be a good or bad thing? Where do YOU stand? Join the conversation, leave a review & follow us on social media!

Today's guest, Joanna Kowalewska, is a certified dreamwork professional and Yoga Nidra facilitator. She is the founder of Blue Lotus Queendom, and also wrote an eBook, delving into the integration of AI in dream interpretation while preserving the invaluable connection to our inner wisdom. You can download her E-book for FREE here. 

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;10
Unknown
The world we're living in that the demands and expectations. This is crazy. It became normal, but it's crazy. So trying to also make change in that front for people to rest and to rethink their selves and not see the rest of the luxury. It's a necessity that makes you a better person. You are the person when you're tired like we are all shitty people when we talk.

00;00;22;12 - 00;00;45;25
Unknown
This episode is about the pros and cons of artificial intelligence when it comes to dreams and dream analysis. Everybody wants to know what their dream means. But a lot of people don't want to put in the work to get an actual answer that actually helps you. Today I'm talking to Joanna, who is really passionate about this topic. She actually wrote a free e-book on AI and how it impacts dreams.

00;00;45;28 - 00;01;06;05
Unknown
We are at the brink of a really interesting future and I'm excited to see where it goes. I also want to know everybody's opinions on this because it can be quite controversial. So leave a review comment. Join us online and you can find me at the Dream Wall podcast dot com. Thanks for listening. So my name is , Joanna Kowalewska,
I am originally from Poland. Born and raised there. And I found there all Queendom, which is a space dedicated to dreams, sleep and rest. My main mission, basically, is to help people connect with their dreams and find the wisdom within through their dreams. Because I truly believe that we all have answers to the questions that we seek. We are just not really able many times to reach these answers.

00;01;34;17 - 00;01;53;03
Unknown
And we are also not thought that as children ask how society works. We are always told that someone knows better, right? Like when we are born, obviously the parents, you know, they tell us what to do or what not to do. Then we go to school is the teacher, then it's the boss and then there is a priest and then there is someone else.

00;01;53;06 - 00;02;20;20
Unknown
So we end up not really trusting ourselves and our own wisdom that we have. At least this is the house also that I come from. You never knowing or trusting your own intuition. This voice that talks to you was never really something that was considered okay or normal even. So for a long time I struggled with that, with that, with a feeling that I need to listen to someone else for almost everything related to me in my life and through the dreams.

00;02;20;22 - 00;02;37;01
Unknown
Because I've been a vivid dreamer for my whole life. Since I can remember, I always had a lot of dreams as a child was when I was always remembering them. And I realized that all this wisdom is there. So only if I look into it and I will trust that I can understand it and I can connect to it.

00;02;37;07 - 00;02;53;09
Unknown
Then I can grow. I can grow from it. So I made it my my mission to to help others, to see this, to experience this for themselves, and to realize that there is so much they know already, that their body knows that their mind knows that their spirit knows whatever you want to call it. But there is the knowing.

00;02;53;17 - 00;03;12;05
Unknown
So that's what I kind of feel out of my mind, my passion and my lack of dreams. Beautiful. I love that we're on very similar missions. I think it's such an important thing. And I also grew up Catholic and everything, so I didn't really grow up with this passion for I had it personally, but the people around me did not foster it.

00;03;12;08 - 00;03;27;24
Unknown
So I think that's something definitely that I'm excited about for the future is how can we teach children about their dreams at an early age? And I'm really excited for this topic because we're going to talk about Dreams and I, which is the new stuff, the big topic right now. But first, I want to ask you really quick.

00;03;27;24 - 00;03;58;04
Unknown
You do you focus on like yoga need on your page or just all types of dreams. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes, sure. So I also facilitate the yoga and you draw like I ran a workshop classes. I work with people through yoga and you draw. So basically I connect. This is all connected for me to the dream or to the work that I do with dreams, because basically what happened during yoga and you draw for people that don't know, it's basically a type of rest in which you are lying down and you go through different state of consciousness.

00;03;58;05 - 00;04;28;08
Unknown
I may be able to sleep, maybe not. Maybe I enter the hypnotic state, maybe not. So how this works is that you start to recognize different states of consciousness, other than waking life, which is also what's what happens when we dream is just different state of consciousness. When we lucid dream, it's also different state of consciousness. So for me, it's also a way, first of all, to help other rest, because we are this society that is depleted over us in a way that I can't even explain.

00;04;28;10 - 00;04;47;01
Unknown
I realized that when you practice yoga and you draw, you also increase your dream recall because only by paying attention what happens. You know this visual. So the color of a sound, something that comes this moment when you fall asleep. It's exactly the same when you are in a yoga need, right? Right. That you kind of one leg here, one leg there.

00;04;47;04 - 00;05;14;29
Unknown
And when people start to realize that they can consciously experience the different state of consciousness because they suddenly also started to remember dreams that suddenly start to have those dreams as well. And yeah, and this is for me, just another way of of connecting. Yeah, I love that because I tell people that are trying to lucid dream that that's a great place to start because everybody has access to it As you fall asleep and right as you're waking up, it's really easy to learn how to surf that edge of consciousness consciously.

00;05;15;01 - 00;05;32;07
Unknown
You don't have to be lucid dreaming experience to do it. So that's a great place for people to start. Yeah. And also it's, you know, it's a practice of rest who doesn't want to rest, So it's another eye on it. I would say selling point mode, like I'm trying to sell anything but but it is because you tell someone, Hey, you want to rest.

00;05;32;07 - 00;05;49;03
Unknown
Do you want to feel better last? Maybe you want to experience different state of consciousness. Maybe you can learn lucid dreaming, maybe you can remember your real dreams more. You know, it's so you kind of the invitation itself, I think it's amazing and it's very accessible. As you said, everyone can do it. You know, you can also listen to different tracks before you go to sleep.

00;05;49;07 - 00;06;03;22
Unknown
You can go to the class like whatever it is, or you can just pay attention to what's happening to you before, as you said, before you fall asleep or right after when you get up. That's really beautiful. So simple. It's too simple to be true. But it is. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's it's like a form of meditation.

00;06;03;22 - 00;06;19;18
Unknown
And I've noticed that the way I fall asleep really impacts how well I sleep, my dream content. And even if I just lay down for like a little nap or a little rest, even if I don't fully fall asleep, the fact that I'm just consciously paying attention to the weird imagery that I get I love. Yeah, I think imagery in me too.

00;06;19;18 - 00;06;36;21
Unknown
So like random and weird. But let's get into AI. So this is something that you're really passionate about lately. What are the uses of AI in dreams? I know there's so many positives and negatives and some people are scared for the future and some people cited, Where do you stand? Yeah, so maybe just a little bit of background.

00;06;36;21 - 00;06;56;14
Unknown
I work in a high tech for a while, so I was exposed to technology, to working with technology, to seeing what technology can accomplish, what we can do with it. So it kind of also sparked my interest of how this can be connected to a dream world. And as you said, there is a lot of different voices around it, right?

00;06;56;14 - 00;07;17;12
Unknown
Some people are very scared and say like, now this is just completely not acceptable for working with such a such a sacred thing, like a dream. Stick to technology. And it and others are like, yes, why not let let's use it for the good right where I stand, I would say I would like to just show maybe how good it can be, but also all the dangerous of it, right?

00;07;17;12 - 00;07;36;02
Unknown
Like my role is not to encourage or discourage anyone, but maybe to show two sides that I personally see and to to encourage others to do their own, you know, to decide for themselves whether it's something that they're interested in or they're not interested in. Because I understand also the people that say like, no, let's let's not even go there.

00;07;36;02 - 00;07;55;18
Unknown
Like doing more is too sacred, too to mix it with technology. But I personally think also that this is the evolution of humankind. There is technology, it is there because we continue evolving, right? And the technology is also evolving. So I say why not to use it if it can be helpful or useful, but also how not to lose ourselves in it, right?

00;07;55;21 - 00;08;20;21
Unknown
It's like with other kind of technology, like smartphones, the internet, everything. I see the beauty in it and I see the immense positive impact it can have on the world of the people, but also all the dangers. So I feel where exactly in the same place, maybe also by educating others. I would like to also underline the possible pitfalls, things that can happen because I'm advocating for believing in yourself and your intuition and your dreams.

00;08;20;28 - 00;08;40;02
Unknown
So what I say basically is don't give this power to others, don't give it to other person and don't give it to them. Shit like you use it in any way you find it. Be for yourself, but don't give your power away. Because I personally, how I work with dreams is I can ask you questions. I can maybe underline some things that I see.

00;08;40;02 - 00;08;56;20
Unknown
I can maybe pinpoint one stop that that because I've been into it for a long time, I can see maybe clearly, but I will not tell you what your dream means because in the end of the day, you are the owner. You didn't have your life experience, right? I don't know everything about you. So how can I know what something means to you?

00;08;56;25 - 00;09;14;03
Unknown
Right? So I can. I can guide you like I see myself as a guide. But I won't tell you what you're dreaming. The same with the machine. The same with that. Yeah. I would say like, if you want to use it to deepen your understanding, to maybe do some manual work, you know, faster to do some stuff that maybe you would spend days on doing or looking for, or what do you think?

00;09;14;03 - 00;09;30;10
Unknown
Symbols, Right. Or do you think emotions? Maybe you go through your dream journals and it takes you you want to do it manually to get this out of time. So maybe you can ask me. Yeah, I could do it for you. Right? And but if you ask what my dream means, I think there are. Yeah, this can be a little bit dangerous.

00;09;30;12 - 00;09;48;09
Unknown
Yeah, I understand. And that is a sign that you are a good dream worker. Because we want to give the power to the dreamer. And it's really up to the dreamer to say, okay, I'm going to use A.I. as a tool and not just give it the final say about what my dream means, especially because, you know, if it'll resonate with you or not.

00;09;48;12 - 00;10;04;04
Unknown
So it is kind of similar. And I also, you know, there's other uses, too, of creating art from dreams. That's kind of what I've used it for so far, to try to replicate things I see in my dream. And I think A.I. does a really good job of that. So that's kind of fun. You can use it for creativity, right?

00;10;04;04 - 00;10;23;12
Unknown
Like you can create an art based on your dreams, or you can now you can create a storyline based on your dreams and get your, you know, creativity flowing with that. You can even create music. You know, you have this amazing dream and I don't you can help you to create the soundtrack for your dream. Maybe, you know, you want to make something out of it, right?

00;10;23;14 - 00;10;45;01
Unknown
Arguable with the beautiful music and you're reading your dreams. So again, there are so many amazing things I believe you can do with it. Besides this creative part is really good, and like I said, are spotting things or mapping things or building timelines. If you feed this information to the A.I., it can show you how your dreams are evolving as well.

00;10;45;02 - 00;11;04;00
Unknown
Maybe there are symbols that change over time and also old things that you can do yourself. Because if you sit for hours and you look at things and look at things, right? For me, for example, it was I dream a lot about diving. I'm also very passionate diver and I dream about diving. And there were periods of time that there was always something wrong with my equipment.

00;11;04;00 - 00;11;23;05
Unknown
Like there's always a piece of equipment missing and it was not allowing me to go diving. And it was so frustrating. And at some point this started to change and I was able to go diving and the mask was no longer missing and the things were there and so on and so on. So like, you know, like the dream symbol of the dream team is also evolving with you growing.

00;11;23;07 - 00;11;45;29
Unknown
So sometimes those that were really obvious, this was really obvious for me. This was very strong symbolism. So I didn't miss that this change. But I believe that stuff that they change, you know, that there are subtle changes that maybe will take a long time to see. So maybe I can see it and can and can say, Hey, I see that there was a lot of anger in your dreams and now your dominant emotion is something else and food for thought, right?

00;11;46;02 - 00;12;03;22
Unknown
So depends what you're going to do with it. But again, I'd like to tell you what exactly it means that there's no more anger and there's something else there I wouldn't possibly go because again, this is my right. It's a very interesting. So actually brings up a couple of questions for me so I could see how it could be used as a tool.

00;12;04;00 - 00;12;27;05
Unknown
So when it's analyzing data, right. Disney, I just take the data from your dreams or is it analyzing? It's analyzing every data it's ever gotten from any input. IT Right. So how does that work so good? Exactly. So it really depends how you want to use it. What you want to use it for, because again, I would rather use it for I would feed the app with my dream journals, for example.

00;12;27;05 - 00;12;51;03
Unknown
I would feed it with my dreams and then could ask questions based on what the information I get right. But this only applies if you would give your dreams. However, if you ask in general, like for example, you go to Chad or any other, you know, machine learning powered tool and you ask questions, then yes, then it takes the information from everything that it was fed with.

00;12;51;06 - 00;13;20;25
Unknown
And there are many dangers here because, first of all, where it took the information with dreams it took or what is basing this opinion on. And there's lots of bias there as well, because I was fed with certain information, arrived with some stuff that were on Internet. I believe there are a lot of things that are not on the Internet, so I can not know that maybe, you know, some shamanic dream traditions and rituals there not so much information online so that I would be missing this perspective.

00;13;20;28 - 00;13;45;07
Unknown
Right. So it will be maybe giving you talking to you from the perspective of this most common type of dreams that were given or the most common population that was actually putting it out there. So there is also a lot of information missing. So again, it can be used for me as as to point to to reflect something interesting, but it is missing something and not even talking about that.

00;13;45;07 - 00;14;03;25
Unknown
It's just missing the soul because it's a machine. So, you know, that's the conversation about if we talk strictly about that, the information that it has right, and how we can use it. And some people have fears of AI becoming sentient. And there is data that when you share your dreams with people, with humans, obviously they become more empathetic towards you.

00;14;03;25 - 00;14;42;11
Unknown
This is shown through research. Yeah, there's a possibility, maybe not in the near future, but could A.I. become sentient? And if it did, what would it do with all of our dream information? Very interesting question. Your topic? Yeah, it's very out there. Honestly, I think it can become very intelligent. I think it can become extremely intelligent and it can self actualize and probably it could become at some point I'm maybe not so far from now, more intelligent than humans, but, you know, the energy, the soul, the I don't know, depending how you want to call it, it's bright.

00;14;42;12 - 00;15;01;28
Unknown
The life force. It's not there for me. Maybe it's different and there is energy there, but it's different. It's a complicated one. I don't really know. I don't really know for sure, but I know that the interaction for now, at least for now, the interaction with the machine or with technology is definitely not the same as the interaction with the human.

00;15;01;28 - 00;15;21;03
Unknown
As you said, what happened between two people that share a dream? There is something very special happening, like you mentioned in research, that if you tell someone your dream, the person becomes more empathic toward. You can machine the empathic. At some points. I don't know. It's it's a really big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to say. I guess we'll find out.

00;15;21;06 - 00;15;46;10
Unknown
We're definitely in the early stages of it. Of course, they can become smarter and smarter, but yeah, I can never be human. I mean, we'll see. I don't know. We've seen a lot of sci fi movies. I've seen also all sky movies. Yeah. So as of now, again, I think there is also to what you mentioned about how the machine with the information that you give it, there is also this ethical and privacy consideration when you do that, right?

00;15;46;10 - 00;16;09;16
Unknown
Because where does this information go? How if this would be used, like what's the privacy policy of the tool you are using? Like, are you okay with this being used in the future? Again, maybe it will not directly impact you in any way, but you know, it's very dreams are very private. I see them as something very private, very sacred, even, You know, you choose with whom you would like to speak about.

00;16;09;18 - 00;16;26;26
Unknown
Certain dreams, especially are dreams that probably maybe you don't want to share with other people because their feel too private. Do you want to share them? Would they? I don't know. Again, it's not good or bad in itself. It's just something to consider when you decide to go this right? Definitely. Yeah. I will definitely be reading all of these.

00;16;26;26 - 00;16;48;17
Unknown
The privacy terms and conditions. Yeah. This is something that they also encourage people to do, like, Oh, you chose a tool that you want to use. Okay, check what they do with your information. Yeah, I do think it's interesting to be able to use A.I. to compare people's dreams around the world during him. Yeah, like patterns amongst humanity find people that are sharing dreams.

00;16;48;17 - 00;17;15;19
Unknown
I think that would be a really cool use of it. Yes, definitely. For a for research, it could be amazing, you know, again, because it may can make many things much faster. It can collect huge amounts of data and it can be really, really useful for research for researchers, as you said, for connecting other dreamers. On the other hand, you know how we make sure that we're getting the voices of many different types of dreamers, right?

00;17;15;19 - 00;17;36;17
Unknown
And so then again, it won't become only one kind of one part of the population, you know, sharing it. Because for example, one of the good things that I think is really cool is let's say you dream about something, a preacher, a character, and you can just ask, I dream of this and that. Is there any place in the literature or Internet that this was mentioned?

00;17;36;17 - 00;17;54;11
Unknown
Right? Because I believe some place maybe it would dream up some mystic preachers or gods or whatever it is, objects, you know, that we don't know what that what it is, but it perhaps can be existing some. Right. So the thing is, is that I can really past help you say like yeah, their mention of something similar here and there in this book.

00;17;54;11 - 00;18;15;10
Unknown
In that book there's archetypes that talks about it. So again, I find it like something fascinating that can really give you something formation again, what you do with it, it's yours, but it can give you some inspiration information. But at the same time, there are things that are not in the internet, so you will never reach it if you don't look for a specific book, right?

00;18;15;10 - 00;18;30;29
Unknown
Because not every like almost everything we believe is online, but not really everything is online. So there is still this part of the perspective that you would be missing, but you can use this way. It's amazing. Like I dreamt of this woman that looks like that, but I felt like this. What do you think? Like, who do you think it is?

00;18;30;29 - 00;18;47;07
Unknown
Like you can have a chat. You can have like a conversation, like with a friend, you know, like, is there any book about it? Like, does it sound like someone from history, you know, from the past? Now you going have a lot of fun with it and it's very fast. It's much faster than Google, you know, because Google gives you different kind of results.

00;18;47;07 - 00;19;04;27
Unknown
Okay, this can combine. I go to book and this and that. And imagine now when using A.I., how do we phrase the prompts in the best way order to to be able to help us, you know, like instead of just saying, what does it mean? So what do you think is the best way to, like, you know, put the prompts in?

00;19;05;00 - 00;19;29;03
Unknown
Yeah, I would say ask a question, You know, like, say I dreamt about this and that I had this dream and what questions can I ask myself to better understand this dream? This can be really useful because it gives you questions that you answer yourself and you take the results of this or the answers for yourself. So it's again, not saying, as you said, not saying, Oh, what does it mean?

00;19;29;05 - 00;20;09;09
Unknown
But more of what questions could I ask in what area I could look is there is like a specific methodology or psychological, you know, tool that I can look into or I will always go about asking questions. And because if you just ask questions, first of all, you know, you're not expecting to get an answer because the answer again, I, I advocate for having your own, but it's going to broaden your horizons because who knows, maybe it will, you know, show me a question that would come and think about it, you know, or you can ask about associations, as you said, with different cultures or associations with the past movies, songs.

00;20;09;12 - 00;20;34;16
Unknown
You can go creative there, you know, like, oh, is there a song that this dream because maybe you feel like honoring your dream by listening to a song that that, you know, sparked this feeling of the dream or the theme of the dream. So I would always go this direction. I would use it as different, you know, to use it as as broadening the horizons, as broadening my understanding or my own investigation, like a helper, like a personal helper.

00;20;34;19 - 00;21;04;19
Unknown
Do we talk about all of the uses before we get into the down sides? Are there any more uses that you could think of? I mentioned it briefly, but very easily. Finding the recurring happens and symbols building a timelines. Again, if you decide to to to give this information, maybe you have your dream journal online like I for example have I write my my dreams in the in the Google docs so I can very easily give this information so you can show me timeline how the symbols evolved.

00;21;04;25 - 00;21;30;05
Unknown
I can show you like the most repeating emotion, the most repeating theme, the most repeating caller, all kind of stuff like that that maybe again can and can give you a just, just information for having more an investigation of your own. It can help with the creativity, as we said, create music, images, stories, movies. I believe there it's really endless.

00;21;30;05 - 00;21;56;15
Unknown
Like I love it because you can go almost any direction that you want. I read a lot about that. What else? Like a deepening your understanding of of the dream, asking the questions and visualizing, okay, there is something that we didn't talk about. It is visualizing that as a dream data. So let's say you have a lot of lot of dream and you want to visualize it in some way that it would be a little bit easier to digest for you.

00;21;56;15 - 00;22;24;24
Unknown
So, you know, it could help you create the graphs and and other type of visualization related to your dream. So if you're doing a study or even for yourself, you know, and you just don't want to see the numbers, you can have it made for you in a really nice, nice way, all the statistics of your dreams. So what are ways that we can keep centered and still use our own intuition instead of trusting the eye too much like that is a mental process that we have to consciously keep all the time.

00;22;24;24 - 00;22;44;13
Unknown
So like, what are your tips for that exactly? I think it's all goes around this, you know, this belief in this is strengthening your own intuition on the first place and understanding that dream more. For me, it's about that, right? About listening to your dreams and learning from it. Yeah. As you said, it's so easy to just say, Oh, I had a dream about the dog.

00;22;44;13 - 00;23;02;01
Unknown
What does it mean? But again, if you understand that when you do that, you just it's like using a dream dictionary, which I'm not really big fan of. Right. Again, it's very stimulating. Just like, you know, the old fashioned way. The dream dictionary. Right. And I always say, like, dreams can be great because they can give you some ideas.

00;23;02;03 - 00;23;18;15
Unknown
But but in general, they don't know anything about you. And the perfect example is the dog. Example is like, if you love dogs and you dreamt of dogs, so you wake up and you say, Wow, I just saw this amazing dog. It looked as though but it was scared of dogs and you dream of dog. You wake up maybe sweating.

00;23;18;15 - 00;23;38;29
Unknown
You're not put out by a dog last week. It's going to be totally different. Exactly. So just what I say. So I say, listen, that's why there's no one explanation to entering into any symbol, you know? So as same as with dream dictionaries that they say, look at it if you want. If it can inspire you, you know, maybe something will spark your your your investigation.

00;23;38;29 - 00;23;54;19
Unknown
But the same with the I like I don't want and again, I do want to say do, do or don't do, but be very careful with that. Think about it as just like a helper, you know, like a secretary that can handle you a lot of stuff, but the executive decision is yours. So I always say like, remember that you are the owner.

00;23;54;19 - 00;24;11;08
Unknown
Like, remember that you are the owner and you know best. And it comes with a lot of, I think, inner work to to be in the place that you believe that you that you really know, that you understand your dreams. You can understand your dreams and you know, when you trust the guy I'm going back to our self right?

00;24;11;10 - 00;24;29;10
Unknown
Using it as a tool and not as a as the final say, definitely. And I think it's important to still have your own dream work practice. You never want to rely on anything, even if it's like supplements or Blue Lotus even. You want to have your own practice and everything else is a tool and it's additional thing that you are you have control over.

00;24;29;10 - 00;24;49;20
Unknown
You don't let it, you know, control you exactly. And as you said, you can see exactly the same as any kind of supplements or tools or, you know, anything that can help you remember more your dreams or, you know, going to someone and asking them all what my dream means. It's again, it's a tricky thing because maybe they're right or maybe they're really wrong.

00;24;49;23 - 00;25;07;14
Unknown
So it comes back to the place. Really trust yourself. Your dreams can help you trust yourself. Because what happens when you start looking at the dreams and and really writing them down and listening to them, is that you really develop this trust because it's like, Oh, I think it was that. And then you act on it, right? And then you say, Wow, that's been good.

00;25;07;14 - 00;25;35;27
Unknown
I was right. And, and it's not about always knowing what remains and it's not always it's not about that. It's not true, at least. But it's this thing that if you start to develop the relationship with like you, you realize that you know more than than you thought you knew and this is the beautiful part. So not giving the power to anything or anyone for me, and this is what I advocate for, and I wish to empower everyone else, you know, because you want you want to come to some sessions with me so we can look at the dreams and ask some questions.

00;25;35;27 - 00;25;57;14
Unknown
Amazing, right? But then I set you up on your journey and you're perfectly capable to do it by yourself. So what about some potential downsides? We touched on some of them, but what are the ones that you find most prominent? Yeah, exactly what you said. You know, using the question what my dream and I'm fitting saying I dreamt of that and what did it mean?

00;25;57;16 - 00;26;18;18
Unknown
And this is very dangerous because again, I personally don't believe that the machine can really know. And we have a tendency to to looking for fast solutions and we are used to being given answers very quickly. So, you know, maybe instead of need sleeping and trying to figure out. I would just ask you in less than 5 seconds, I have the answer.

00;26;18;20 - 00;26;37;20
Unknown
This is one of the downsides that I'm most worried about. And I think it goes everywhere. I mean, it's it's not even only with that with the A.I., but kind of in many areas of our lives that we outsource so much that we no longer owners almost of anything because we have tools and machines doing things for us.

00;26;37;23 - 00;26;58;24
Unknown
So this is what what scares me and concerns me a little bit, and I would really encourage not to do that. I discourage people from doing that. I also ask, we mentioned that privacy, ethical considerations like are you okay with your information going somewhere, how this is going to be used? I believe for some people they don't care at all.

00;26;58;27 - 00;27;16;02
Unknown
Already giving a lot permissions to all the apps in our phones. But but maybe that is something to consider, right? You know, maybe you don't want your holy dreams to go somewhere in the Internet. You don't know what's happening with them. Right. And the fact that we can just, you know, be become like addicted to it and also this fast.

00;27;16;02 - 00;27;38;23
Unknown
Okay, this is I don't this this down. So okay, I go about my day and there is lacking you know the human involvement there like dream sharing. It was a practice for centuries that that was connecting people right. So there is this very important part of it that I feel is also missing when when you do it with the eyes that there is no human connection.

00;27;38;23 - 00;28;03;17
Unknown
There. You know that the whole dream sharing circles and villages, sharing dreams or even partners or friends sharing dreams, there was something beautiful that is being created. You can't have it with the machine, right? You can have this funny chat or interesting chat with you. Don't create this connection. And I feel that dreams are also amazing way of getting closer to other people, to have empathy for other people, you know, to connect to other people.

00;28;03;17 - 00;28;24;03
Unknown
So this is also something that But it's missing the human human involvement, right? It's not there. And the barriers that we spoke about. Right. That's not everything is out there. So you will get some part of the information, but not everything is on the Internet, you know, So you will be missing a part of even what the symbol meant in different cultures.

00;28;24;03 - 00;28;50;29
Unknown
Maybe you're interested. You will still need to go and ask people or go into books. So remember, not that there is a lot of information that was not I was not fed with that are very important. And also like the psychological, psychological well-being, you know, again, not not getting addicted like not not getting not relying too much on it, like maintaining the balance between doing, as we said, using this as helpful tool and doing our own work.

00;28;50;29 - 00;29;15;28
Unknown
As you said, you still do your own work. You still look at the dreams yourself, you still journal and you still want to connect with them. And don't rely purely on on the machine to tell you things. It's very important. So even if you use it as the helper, as I said, make sure you know that you do keep the balance, that you don't neglect your own doing more than with yourself or with someone else.

00;29;16;01 - 00;29;44;05
Unknown
And to also be aware of how things are changing. And maybe if you are using AI for it, just like follow up how things are changing, like how the algorithms are changing in a way or be aware, you know what you're using. Like just simple being informed. Yeah. Especially in these early stages as it's developing. So I don't know if I'm being too cynical here, but let's say as AI starts to gather data and more people start to use it, what are what about like the privacy?

00;29;44;05 - 00;30;03;14
Unknown
Obviously, we don't really know where that what they're being stored for, but do you think there's a potential in the future where I could just ask a guy like, Hey, what did Joanna dream about? Or like, you know, things like that to try to find out about other people's dreams? That's a very interesting question. This is why I say, you know, they're reading the privacy policy very important.

00;30;03;19 - 00;30;24;04
Unknown
Like it's sounds crazy that this would be possible, but like we see a lot of crazy things happening, right? So are these being sold to a companies or just being sold to someone? And, you know, knowledge is power and many people use it for beautiful purposes. There are some people that use it for this is like with anything, of course.

00;30;24;04 - 00;30;44;02
Unknown
Yeah, you know, that's what I'm saying. And remembering also that again, it's it's very private, it's very sacred. It's not meant to be, you know, you just put out there this way, having the respect to, to your dreams, you know, treating it still as something very personal. I think it's important to remember and to act on it. Yeah, that's true.

00;30;44;05 - 00;31;08;05
Unknown
The best tips that I would give to someone that wants to use it is to not to rely on it as the final source of of the answers and and always do your work and to foster the mindfulness and introspection you know always when using other tools or other people help to understand your dreams, you know, embrace the creative creativity and the playfulness of it, you know?

00;31;08;05 - 00;31;32;04
Unknown
And then really you can have a lot of fun with it and, and create amazing stuff. But choosing also wisely the tools that you want to use. So just the good tools, the privacy, and make sure that you don't neglect your own dream journal. You know, at the same time. And also, maybe there's something we didn't touch on is that you can also do some collaborations with others.

00;31;32;04 - 00;31;50;25
Unknown
You know, we can explore maybe dreams with others. Maybe you can use A.I. in a ways that, you know, you you use it for your dream circle. You do some cool stuff with it, you know, like the opportunities are endless. You could be, you know, reporting your dreams as a group, you know, and then creating something out of it as a group.

00;31;50;27 - 00;32;14;21
Unknown
And sharing the experiences and sharing the ways that you use a for Dream blog with others. I think it can be also super cool too, to, you know, to use this tool for something, something great. And yeah, that's true. I didn't even think about that. It does come in handy when it comes to groups and stuff like that, especially because, you know, I have a couple of friends that I try to do dream share tasks with and things like that.

00;32;14;21 - 00;32;36;14
Unknown
And we're always looking for overlapping patterns and symbols and stuff like that. So that could definitely come in handy. Exactly. This is something amazing that you can do. Again, as I mentioned, like only shortly, like for any research purposes and this kind of work, it can be amazing because again, it can pinpoint on stuff that you missed. It's already hard enough to a lot of people.

00;32;36;14 - 00;32;55;12
Unknown
Surprisingly to us, they don't really care about their dreams or they're like, Oh, well, I know that's so terrible. It's mind blowing to me. I don't get it. But. But maybe something like I will incentivize people to be like, Oh, maybe it's easier. Maybe I can get into it. Now let me write, record my dream so I can see what I says about it.

00;32;55;17 - 00;33;14;27
Unknown
So if even if anything, if it gets people interested in just paying attention to their dreams, that's that's a benefit. In my head. In my e-book, I didn't recommend any tools like it was more general about what you can do, but not mentioning any specific tools or apps or stuff. So so when someone sent me the message like also, which tool would you use?

00;33;14;27 - 00;33;32;17
Unknown
Like what dream interpretation I would use, I'm feeling really torn because one side is exactly what you said. It may get someone going in a playful, funny way. Would a beautiful, even just beautiful design of an app and it seems so easy. So yes, that's going to be the result that someone was thought to pay attention to that brings that's amazing.

00;33;32;19 - 00;33;49;25
Unknown
But on the other hand, you know, because of the dangers of just relying on it, when someone asked me this also, I'm trying to also create like a like a maybe poster video about that. But I don't still I'm still not sure how to reframe it in a way that it would be very clear that the use of it is amazing.

00;33;49;25 - 00;34;10;14
Unknown
But there are some considerations, you know. Yeah, I wish I would come with some sort of disclaimer to people like, Oh, dreams are not universal, just so you know, this is, you know, like some little sentence or two about that. You know that sometimes it does, actually. That's right. Yeah. Sometimes if you ask because I did obviously I tried some stuff myself.

00;34;10;19 - 00;34;31;26
Unknown
I understand it better. So sometimes surprisingly, but maybe because because already it know my point of view on that. Right. But I would say like, oh yeah, just like last things. Remember, the dreams are very personal. Yeah, it does. But it may be because it already knows how I see it, you know, because, you know, I've been working on it.

00;34;31;26 - 00;34;49;17
Unknown
I hope it continues to do that though, because if it is gathering data from what's online and what people are saying, that's what we're saying. So that's what it should say. That's the right thing to say. So if I is really smart, that is the proper way to analyze someone's dream is to not tell them so directly, you know?

00;34;49;17 - 00;35;08;24
Unknown
So hopefully I catches on to that too. Yeah. But I think that there's also many people that that do believe that they can say what other people's dream mean. Do you think? Yeah, there's a lot about that because here I don't think about it. I don't think is that balance. Like you and me, we share the same belief and I know many people do.

00;35;08;24 - 00;35;29;08
Unknown
I have all the members of the International Association for the Study of Dreams. This is, you know, the ethical code. But I met a lot of people that they believe they can tell me what the dream means of other person. And if those people talk to A or B, they're inferences, they I would maybe it's not going to be so straightforward.

00;35;29;15 - 00;35;53;15
Unknown
I mean, it's interesting that I will definitely reflect the balance of humanity. And unfortunately, there are people like that. I've met people like that. And I find it a little pretentious. Even if you have good intentions like you don't, you don't know for sure, you know. Yeah. Do you? Do you read that often when when you say, okay, I'm dream worker, I help people understand the dreams or whatever you call it, and then the people expect you to tell them what the dream means.

00;35;53;15 - 00;36;10;07
Unknown
Because I do this like this form of expectation. All your dream interpreter And I'm like, You know, you must let me tell you about my dream immediately. People are like, Oh, I had this dream. Let me tell you about it. And I listen and everything and I'm like, First thing I say is like, Oh, well, let me ask you some questions.

00;36;10;07 - 00;36;26;16
Unknown
I ask some clarifying questions. Honestly, I won't even give the little disclaimer. I'll just ask questions and people do anything about their dreams, so they'll just tell me more and more. And sometimes I don't even have to say the disclaimer. They're like, Huh? You know what? I just figured it out. I'm like, Look at that. And then sometimes I'll be like, You know, I'm just asking questions because I want to.

00;36;26;16 - 00;36;42;04
Unknown
If they help you figure it out, I can't tell you for sure, but like, if it was my dream and then, you know, I'd do that whole thing. But yeah, it really just depends on the person. Some people are like, Oh, but what do you what do you think it means? Yeah, I mean, I'll give you an idea, but don't take this as, as the final answer.

00;36;42;07 - 00;37;04;24
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. It's exactly the same with me. And I believe that giving the power, the power to the person, you know, empowering. Because for me, the dreams are extremely empowering. Working with dreams is empowering. And again, going back to my childhood, when I was raised in a way that you know nothing, only others now, right? So that was something very, very powerful.

00;37;05;00 - 00;37;33;15
Unknown
And also because they are so inclusive, like everyone dreams and no matter what background to come from the material religion, no matter your age, we all dream. And what I always say as well is that it doesn't really matter what you think the dreams come from. You know, because some people believe there are messages from God or other people believe that they are, you know, just our brain processing or it's our ancestors or it's our higher selves spirit talking to us.

00;37;33;15 - 00;37;57;23
Unknown
I always say, you know what? It doesn't really matter because as long as you believe that there is an information that there is wisdom, there is help there for you. So you got it right. And I love it because I've been in between different cultures and religious and living in different countries. And I feel it's something that can unite everyone because we all dream and as long as we recognize that there is something valuable there for us, so then we can take from there.

00;37;57;23 - 00;38;23;12
Unknown
And it happens every night. So, I mean, come on, it's incredible. I wish everybody would just start writing their dreams down at the very least. But I think we're getting there, You know, it's the beginning. Yeah. Here in Israel, I must say, that's very, very still. I'm no news, I would say. So I meet a lot of like, strange looks or questions, but I feel like it's what happened with yoga and meditation and other practices that's used to.

00;38;23;12 - 00;38;44;23
Unknown
It's they seem very and I think the dreams are now in the same place. I really feel that with time people will be much more open to it and, and hopefully will understand that it's such a beautiful way of getting to know yourself and growing. And I really hope so. Yeah, I hope so too. And I think when you were doing the important work of being ambassadors of the dream world, so I'm proud of us.

00;38;44;24 - 00;39;03;23
Unknown
Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. So where can we find your e-book? And like, what do you want to share with people that you have going on? Yeah. So my ebooks to download for free on my website with this blue lotus queendom that com is the same hashtag for my Instagram account and my Facebook is blue lotus queendom.

00;39;04;00 - 00;39;32;09
Unknown
I run online dream circles or workshops sometimes and also on site here in Israel and you are welcome to just say hello and ask questions about dreams or whatever you would like to know. Yeah, I just, I just hope that this message will reach as many people as possible and that everyone will, maybe even the skeptic person will give it a tiny try to to write down the dream and to look at it and to maybe see something there.

00;39;32;12 - 00;39;54;04
Unknown
Because I really I truly, truly believe that we can all do it and we can really grow from it. And it's so beautiful and so easy and so accessible. You don't need to pay anyone or do anything. You just go to sleep. So again, just really use it, Use it and you'll be surprised and not hard and you'll be really surprised what you can get out of it.

00;39;54;04 - 00;40;19;21
Unknown
That's true. Okay. Last question. What about somebody that's like, you know, those stubborn people that are like, oh, but I don't remember my dreams. I haven't had a dream in ten years. That's bullshit, you know? Any any advice for those people, too? I don't want to leave them out. Definitely. I hear it a lot. But I also saw that every time there is even a conversation about dreams or maybe even listening to this, any other podcast or reading an article about dream, or even talking to someone saying, You know what?

00;40;19;22 - 00;40;41;09
Unknown
I remember my dreams. I didn't remember my dream for 20 years. This is already setting the intention for remembering the dreams. And it's insane how it works. Again, too good to be true, but it happened to me a few days ago. I just had a conversation with someone who said, Oh yeah, I don't remember my dreams anymore. And we just spoke about dreams in general, not about their dreams or no techniques, no, I didn't say nothing about doing anything.

00;40;41;15 - 00;41;00;22
Unknown
And the next day I get what the message that I want, really I just had that I just remember I said, This is that simple. I feel the mind. Yeah. And I feel a dream. Mark In general, it's that simple that you don't need to make a lot of effort. Just about setting intention and wanting to establish this connection and being open.

00;41;00;22 - 00;41;20;10
Unknown
That's it. And it will come really, like again, not too good to be true, but is true. I promise. Just if you want it, you will remember your dreams. Really. Unless they're very tiny percent of people that have some medical conditions that maybe, maybe are in this 1% of people, but if not really just set out there before you go to sleep, I would like to remember my dreams.

00;41;20;10 - 00;41;35;06
Unknown
I would like to hear the message from my dream. I'm open to hear my dream. And and it will come even on the first, second, third night. It will come after a week. It will come. And if you didn't mean anything, if it was for nothing, we wouldn't have it. Because also something that I always say. I believe that we are human.

00;41;35;07 - 00;41;54;05
Unknown
There is not even one cell that was created that we don't need. So everything that we are, that we have all the organs, all the cells, everything is for something. So if the dreams meant nothing, we would not be dreaming. Like for me, as obvious as that, I believe that everything that we were created when we were created was by reason.

00;41;54;07 - 00;42;24;06
Unknown
And it applies to dreams as well. So we talk about, you know, the yoga Nedra element in that can go a bit deeper. It's super interesting and in general about the rest because I'm not advocating for people to freaking rest. Well, yeah, because they don't. And it's just insane. And I want to I'm just I'm myself like, getting out of this, you know, constant like this way of seeing things and working and over exhausting ourselves and helping others to understand that this is not normal.

00;42;24;08 - 00;42;44;08
Unknown
There's also something that I do when I speak to people, when I write, if we're going to talk about Super Bowl dress is like the world we're living in, that the demands, the expectations, this is crazy. It became normal, but it's crazy. So trying to also make change in that front for people to rest and to take care of themselves and not see rest as a luxury.

00;42;44;12 - 00;43;01;05
Unknown
You know, not saying coming, you're going to drive class or doing one hour. You're going to drive the whole one. The children screaming as a as something as a luxury. It's it's a necessity that makes you a better person, that you are you are able to bring your gifts to the world. When you're rested, you can do it.

00;43;01;09 - 00;43;21;02
Unknown
You are the person when you're tired, like we are all shitty people when we die. But real dealing with the like constantly tired population like, you know, not the best things are coming out of us. That's so true. It is. It is so. So there is a lot of stuff like that. Okay, tell me more. If you have five more minutes more about yourself and where are you located?

00;43;21;09 - 00;43;38;09
Unknown
Yeah, no worries. I'm 28. I always loved my dreams. I was a lucid dreamer, like when I was a kid. So I got into it that way. Really. I just always loved my dreams. I liked exploring consciousness, you know? I was like that kid that would, like, spin in the circles is just like, feel something interesting, you know?

00;43;38;09 - 00;43;54;26
Unknown
So I always thought it was cool to, like, experience altered states of consciousness. And then when I discovered that lucid dreaming was something that you could do, like I started, you know, getting more into it. And then I started the podcasting career just because I was like, This is so cool. Why aren't people talking about this right? Yeah.

00;43;54;26 - 00;44;13;16
Unknown
And so my focus is lucid dreaming. I teach people how to lucid dream from beginner to advanced, but there's so many fields within dream work that that's why I need the podcast, because I need people like you to tell me what you know and what they know and all this stuff. So bringing it all together to just keep the conversation going is like kind of like my mission and I love doing this.

00;44;13;16 - 00;44;37;15
Unknown
You know, I love talking about dreams. I think it's so important, extremely important. I agree with you. And it's still so my view and maybe instead it's a bit better. But here, if I look at kind of like dream long scene in Israel, you know, so maybe like, I don't know, three people that do that, including me. So really definitely harder over there probably to find that people.

00;44;37;18 - 00;45;08;29
Unknown
But if you did, I mean, you could maybe create a little group or something. Yeah, I'm thinking about it like I would love more. Like there are some again, there are few people, but but still, it's so nice. It's so nice. And for all these reasons that they told you not even going into lucid dreaming and not even, you know, this is like just one back to a tiny part of, as you said, of the dreams and what it can be done with it and how can it be healing and and you know what lucid dreams, what you can do, what's going experience the lucid dreams.

00;45;08;29 - 00;45;41;26
Unknown
It's so big, you know, So even starting the conversation about it here, it's already for me, like so big. But because it's so unknown, I struggle all the time with stuff like bureaucracy and stuff because like, Oh, I want to get insurance, you know, for liability insurance. I can't because it's not the thing, you know, like that. But I say like, Oh, okay and then they're on my website, like the credit card processing companies say like, Oh, no, we cannot give you the clearance because what you do is like, it's it's not the thing.

00;45;42;01 - 00;46;10;24
Unknown
Like, so, you know, I'm experiencing this like, yeah, this is how I know how all their dream work is here and it's even gives me even powers me more than the reality vocal and make so really, you know like a bank about it because because it's so important I believe this work is so important and so beautiful and help me so much on my personal journey.

00;46;10;26 - 00;46;36;24
Unknown
And I heard that's maybe next year. The conference is actually in Europe, even in Europe. And there you are. So, okay, so I'm going to try to go for sure because I loved it. It was my first time going. It was amazing. So I'm definitely going to try to go next year. I think that people don't even know that they're into dream work, especially because it's been hidden in silence throughout generations, especially a country like Israel and the really like, you know, more like religiously strict countries, I think.

00;46;36;24 - 00;47;02;08
Unknown
Yeah, but Poland, the same, you know, with this very heavy, very strict traditional Catholic society. And even though I really love like the real that you made the other day about, you know, mention of dream and dreams and dream prophets and Bible because this is exactly the thing, you know, but my parents would say that, oh, no, this like, comes from a devil or like it's everything that was bit out there.

00;47;02;15 - 00;47;18;07
Unknown
I was so discouraged, you know, That's why I also it took me so long to really put it upfront in my life because I was very condition. And even though inside out, I knew because I was always dreaming, always remember my dream. And I was always like, Yeah, there's something about it, you know, But like I was so repressed.

00;47;18;09 - 00;47;45;14
Unknown
So that's why I left. Woman But that's another story, but so repressed. And like from religion point of view, there are no, you know, prophets in the Bible, right? That were interpreting dreams. So they, people don't know what people do. Now it brings fear. So I met with a lot of fear. Yeah, I definitely think that's the big challenge for dream work is fear and expectations, which is a lot of a lot of it, you know, just being able to just judge by your own experience.

00;47;45;17 - 00;48;05;09
Unknown
And yeah, if God gave us dreams, that's what I tell people. It's our birthright. Jesus was named after a dream. Like I could go on forever. Like people see dreams and visions in the Bible all the time. So yeah, And also the the visions in awake state. Because now when you have a vision, you are, you know, you need to go to a psychiatric ward, you know?

00;48;05;11 - 00;48;24;25
Unknown
Hello. Yeah. I think back a couple centuries or however long ago, I think it was more normal to think about these things. Maybe as science and technology has advanced, it's become more pseudoscience. But back then it was more normalized. So I think we've lost that as a culture and maybe that's part of the to silencing our our intuition as well.

00;48;24;27 - 00;48;59;29
Unknown
So we have to reawaken ourselves. So exactly like yeah, spur my like know to trust yourself, really believing in something, trusting yourself like you know, you can decide like and it's something about not having teachers or masters or no but like trust yourself, like really develop this, this, this relationship and you will see what magic will happen.