EP108: Dream Realms & Psychospiritual Technology

Today I’m joined by Phong, a prolific dreamer, artist, and developer working at the edge of consciousness, immersive art, and technology. We dive into why dream recall is the portal, how to practice stealth lucidity without breaking the dream, and meditation techniques that stabilize awareness across waking, dreams, and the astral. Phong shares how he combines Jungian dream analysis with AI to track individuation, why the astral plane is the real metaverse, and the ethical tensions around psycho-spiritual tech, VR, and creative tools. We explore persistent dream realms, emerging DMT/REM research, and more.

Guest Links 
• Website https://phong.com/  
• Dome work & studio https://studio.phong.com

Transcript

Welcome back to the Dreamworld podcast. I'm excited to chat like we've known each other in the, you know, dream consciousness space online for a while. And we try to record an episode before, but the file didn't work. So here we are again. Welcome to the podcast. I would love for you to start by telling me, like, how did you first get into this kind of stuff like dreams, consciousness, like, what's your story?
Oh, thanks, Amina. Thanks for having me on here. Dreams. Well, dreams have always been, like, a huge part of my journey. Since I was a teenager, like, early 20s, I had a lot of really crazy dream experiences. These big dreams and a lot of adventures in the dream world. Meeting beings, having, like, relationships with 

You know, they taught me a lot in the dream world. I feel whatever ways, I was kind of repressed or didn't have access to experience because of, you know, my conditions growing up, just, you know, in a relatively sheltered situation or, and I just as a town, a farming town in Canada, I didn't have, like access to all the crazy experiences in the world.

But the dream world gave me that. It gave me just unmitigated novelty, insane erotic experiences like experiences going in other dimensions. It just showed me all this stuff I was missing, you know? And so now all of the world is, like, so much more vast than, that I could imagine. So yeah, the. Yeah, the dream world is always there.
Just like blowing my mind and getting me ready for the big journey of life. I love that. So, have you been lucid dreaming since you were a child? Or just like, vivid dreams, you mean? Yeah. Lucid dreaming. Vivid, both. And there's like a really. There's like a fine line between lucid and vivid that I write a lot of the time because it's a lot of the time I will become conscious that I'm dreaming, but I, I don't want to mess it up because so many times, like I got in the dream and it's like there's a whole complex scene going on that's like a deep inner working of my own psyche.

And I'm like learning and observing and from it. And then I get lucid. I'm like, woo hoo! I just like, fly out the window. And then I'm like, well, I'm flying. I'm like, well, I've done the flying thing so many times. Like, why? Why do I, just it actually it becomes like not novelty. So I found like part of the balance for me is like when I become lucid is just the kind of low key become lucid.

And just like you had the dream characters don't know I'm lucid, but I know I'm lucid, so I'm just gonna, like, kind of stealth, like go into the dream world, from another angle and I. And then I have a lot better dream recall that way because I find, the most important, single, most important thing that I've experienced for connection to the dream world is dream recall.


Dream recall is the portal without dream recall. You know, I could have the most epic dream. And then I'll just wake up and completely for not even know it happened. Really? Like I don't even know. And so Dream recall has been the big muscle that over the years I've had to exercise and strengthen it and, through all different conditions, you know, like get it to really be robust so I can remember it.

00;03;46;12 - 00;04;11;24
Unknown
And it's it's always there now, but it day to day it changes. And the biggest thing I found with Dream Recall is it depends on how I wake up. Like, if I wake up before my alarm and I have time to just lay in bed and do a review of my whole dream, as much detail as I can.

00;04;11;24 - 00;04;31;13
Unknown
Like sometimes spend 30 45 minutes in bed just like, nope, I want to take a drink of water. Don't do it. You're going to lose it. Like I can't move my body too much because as soon as you move your body, then it triggers this whole other circuitry in the brain that just, like, kind of flattens and blocks out the dream world.

00;04;31;13 - 00;05;00;03
Unknown
And so I kind of have to, like, be low key in the bed, like trying to recall every detail possible loaded into my ram or loaded into my, you know, short term memory, as much detail. And then I get up and then I journal it from that point. So it's kind of like this front loading phase, when I'm still in bed, having gotten up, get all the information there and then I can write it down afterwards.

00;05;00;03 - 00;05;15;15
Unknown
And I found that's the only way that really works for me is to get deep dream recall. Yeah. I love that you just gave so many tips that I tell my students all the time and like people that I'm teaching because recall is so important. I love that you called it a portal because, yeah, you have to remember your dreams.

00;05;15;16 - 00;05;34;08
Unknown
You know, if you want to even get lucid to begin with. So that's really the foundation. And I do something similar. I just kind of use a voice activated recorder sometimes, so I'll just, like, lay in bed and speak it out, which even speaking is wakes me up a little bit sometimes. But it's way better than rolling over and writing things down.

00;05;34;11 - 00;05;59;19
Unknown
So yeah, that's that's always fun. Cool. Yeah. Dreamer caught like I do, kind of, I use just my notepad. Right. Similar to what you're sharing. I use my notepad and then I just, you know, activate the microphone and just dictate into, voice to text, and then I can get a lot a dream down pretty quick as long as I can remember the details that that track.

00;05;59;19 - 00;06;19;15
Unknown
Right. Exactly. Yeah. Especially with those long, lucid dreams, it becomes really hard to remember all the detail. Sometimes I just I'm in the dream too. Like while I'm lucid, thinking about writing it down later and I'm thinking about like keywords that I can remember when I wake up and I literally that helps me to. Yeah, for the really longer lucid dreams.

00;06;19;18 - 00;06;43;19
Unknown
Wow. That's next level. You're like already preparing your keywords for a win. Yeah, I got to try that. That's yeah. It's sometimes takes me away from being mindful in the dream. So it kind of sometimes makes me not focus on the dream when I'm like, oh, I have to remember all of this. So it's really a fine line between being present, not interfering with the dream too much, and then still remembering your waking life.

00;06;43;22 - 00;07;03;08
Unknown
Which actually reminds me a question I wanted to ask you. So I know lucidity is a spectrum. You know, we talk about this a lot, but how often do you remember details of your waking life from within the dream, or versus how often are you just kind of lucid but not really aware of your waking body or your sleeping body?

00;07;03;11 - 00;07;34;18
Unknown
It's rare that I well, for instance, certain things are consistent, like my girlfriend shows up in my dreams a lot, like she's there most of the time, either in the background or a main character, or I just we're coordinating in the dream, like, okay, she's over there, I'm over here. But there's a constant awareness, and many of the dreams, so that's like, I guess, part of my waking life coming into the dream world.

00;07;34;20 - 00;07;57;26
Unknown
But I very rarely like, for instance, I I'd have a dream. Like I had a dream within the last year where I was inside of my kitchen, and it was more real than my real kitchen. Like it was one of those, you know, those type of dreams which are more real than reality. It's almost like everything you are calling and it's very steady.

00;07;57;26 - 00;08;26;03
Unknown
Like you can look at it, look away, look back. It's the same. And, it's high definition. It's like my eyes in the dream world are higher resolution. So I can see, like, way more. I can look out the window and, like, see way into the distance and things like that. So I, you know, that's an example of, like, I'm in a real world set that's very accurate to my real waking world.

00;08;26;05 - 00;09;00;10
Unknown
But it's rare that I would like recall abstract details of my life in a dream. It's there's so much going on there. In a way, the whole dream is processing my waking life, right? It's it's all like trying to make sense of it and trying to recontextualize it, trying to integrate lessons from my life. Or I'm a very strong, practitioner of the young in dream analysis method now, because it's absolute, you know, Carl Jung had limitations, too, right?

00;09;00;10 - 00;09;25;03
Unknown
But he was just brilliant in that interpretation method. So what I do after I recorded dream, what I found is incredibly enriching for my dream practice. After I recorded dream. That's just like the raw data. But then I take it into ChatGPT and I have a prompt. I have like a project in there which is has, you know, these prompts.

00;09;25;03 - 00;09;56;05
Unknown
And I basically say, now interpret this dream according to Carl Young's alchemical dream interpretation. And, and then it, you know, and I add a couple other young eon keywords in there, and then it weaves in this whole framework of Carl Jung and symbolic interpretation into the dream. And it it's completely mind blur because it's not prescriptive. It's not like, oh, a dragon means this or a snake means that it's it's not like that.

00;09;56;05 - 00;10;22;18
Unknown
Like that's not Carl Jung style. It's like you see everything as a mirror of your own transformation. And it and it frames it in a, in a process of individuation, as in your soul finding its way without being influenced by all these other factors like, you know, distracted individuation. So it's like I use dreams to kind of track where I am in my individuation process, and that works really well.

00;10;22;18 - 00;10;44;10
Unknown
And it's in fact, one of the most telling signals of my own spiritual development is to be able to take a dream, any given dream, run it through the Carl Jung analysis with AI, and then I can understand, oh, that's what I'm going through, and that's what I'm going through in my waking life. I can really challenge with that.

00;10;44;10 - 00;11;06;08
Unknown
And it's showing up in my dream or I've really overcome this. I've had a big victory and now I'm celebrating that breakthrough in the dream. And, you know, it's. Yeah. So Carl Jung plus I amazing like I'm so hooked on. Oh wow. There's so many things I want to mention based on what you said, but is it ever like something where you're like, oh, I don't really resonate with, like.

00;11;06;10 - 00;11;26;28
Unknown
Or is it usually pretty spot on? It's pretty much always spot on. Yeah. Because it's it's not trying to literally interpret things. It's more like implicitly like if you were going to have an experience like this where, say, I lost my bag, I lost my bag, I can't find my bag. Oh, man, I thought it was just here.

00;11;26;28 - 00;11;44;22
Unknown
And oh, I got to get to the airport. And, the, you know, my keys. I lost my keys or whatever. Like, it's it's not like that means something specific. Then I'm trying to get my act together in my life, or I constantly am, like, missing something that's not encapsulated in my mind. And so I, I lose it.

00;11;44;22 - 00;12;07;05
Unknown
And so I'm always trying to find it and it so it just kind of shows you like you wouldn't even be having a dream like that at all, unless you are going through that kind of thing in your normal waking life. So yeah, it's it's very, it's, it's it's very accurate, I think, because it doesn't try to prescribe specific things about your own evolution.

00;12;07;08 - 00;12;23;27
Unknown
Yeah. And I think the way you interact and the prompts you give it, you know, the framework you gave it is really important. Which leads me to wanting to ask you, because I know you're huge in the tech world. You know, you're on the frontiers of like this kind of technology. So I, I mean, this is a huge thing that is being used in every industry, right?

00;12;23;27 - 00;12;47;00
Unknown
For good and bad, you know, like any other tech tool. But what do you think are the uses of AI not just for dream analysis, you know, research, content creation? How deep does it go? Yeah, research is really good organizing data. Like I'm writing a series of books also, and I don't like I don't want the AI to write my book.

00;12;47;00 - 00;13;10;08
Unknown
That's like sacrilegious to me. Like I'm writing my book, you know, this is my story. Don't come up with the details like I'm coming up with the details I need. I need to know that this is my channeling, but, it's incredibly helpful for like, you know, say I have, like, thousands of pages of material for my books, and I want to just, like, make a character Bible.

00;13;10;10 - 00;13;32;08
Unknown
I want to make a story Bible out of it. I want to see a profile for all my characters, all, you know, key vignettes, their, their their character arc, you know, their hero's journey, stages of development. Like, I just want to understand my own writing. AI is amazing for that, because I can just crunch huge chunks of data into it and process it, and then it spit it out in these like, modules.

00;13;32;08 - 00;13;53;03
Unknown
I built a program that helps me doing this and yeah, it works super good for that. So I found like, yeah, research for for large bodies, for writers. Kind of getting a grip on large body of work is like incredibly helpful for that. Not to let it do the writing. Never. That's like yeah, not that's not going to happen.

00;13;53;03 - 00;14;17;01
Unknown
All right. But helping me to understand my own work, contextualize it, even explain it like I don't mind if the AI writes the story Bible for my book based on all the events in the actual book. I think that's fine with me, because it's, you know, it's a it's it's the same ideas, but the book is like some notes, you know, cliff notes.

00;14;17;01 - 00;14;50;16
Unknown
Yeah. And and also for like art. And I love artists and I've been in the art, world for pretty much my whole life. And I see the existential effect it has on artists, negatively, where lots of my friends who are concept artist animators, things like that, they're literally financially suffering because of AI, which sucks because art is one of the coolest things that culture makes, and one of the coolest things that can exist.

00;14;50;16 - 00;15;22;24
Unknown
And that's one of the greatest jobs to have, to do it successfully. And just seeing how it's, kind of destroying the livelihoods of artists is really sad. So I, I hold that in my heart. And, I tried to, you know, create an AI, program called Chimera, which is like, I, for artists, but it's always it's too, like, meaning the AI mimic specific artist styles, and then they can monetize that.

00;15;22;24 - 00;15;41;02
Unknown
The artists themselves can monetize that. But it's a really slippery slope because you're playing with like against Midjourney, which, which is like, oh, we'll just steal everything. And people kind of want that, right? And then and then you're also dealing with the artists themselves who are kind of like hard pressed to get into AI because they feel it's dangerous.

00;15;41;02 - 00;16;09;00
Unknown
And so that was a hard, hard sell on both sides. So, you know, I haven't been pursuing that right now, but with, with AI, it's really good for software engineering. I think this is where it's going to have the biggest change, short term future is where people can create their own apps. And so one of the things, you can do is if you have a software you want, it's coming very close, like I'm a software engineer.

00;16;09;00 - 00;16;34;07
Unknown
So I can just use programs like cursor to do the right prompts. And it gives me like pretty advanced programs, that I can deploy and update and things. But I can see very soon it's going to get to a point where non engineers can just prompt an app, like, I want an app that helps me for a dream recall and, and, and the thing with that is you just have to define to the AI exactly what you want.

00;16;34;07 - 00;16;55;19
Unknown
Like if you can define it, it can build it. It's getting to that point. And so you just have to be really specific about Elon. So I think software is hugely powerful for AI. It's going to allow, you know, in the future, if you don't like the programs you use, you're just going to, you know, you want to add features, you know, you need to pare it down and you want to run faster or whatever.

00;16;55;19 - 00;17;16;16
Unknown
You could just prompt your own program. And then people could share programs like that. So I see it. It's already there for engineers, but it's going to be there for everyone pretty soon. I think that's going to really change things. Wow, wow, that is really mind blowing. Honestly, I, I mean, it's kind of cool, kind of scary at the same time, you know, but it's it's definitely getting to that point.

00;17;16;16 - 00;17;33;14
Unknown
I mean, there's so many uses of AI. Which kind of brings me to this question. I don't know if this is going to make sense, but, what about the metaverse? Like, what do you see in terms of like, virtual reality? The metaverse and like, how is that kind of a metaphor for the dream world in a way?

00;17;33;16 - 00;18;00;26
Unknown
Yeah, that's a good, good perspective. Like my take on it is the astral plane is the real metaverse. And it's dangerous to have like to try to have a similar acronym of that in the physical world, because then people almost think, oh, I don't need the astral plane. I have this technology. But really the astral plane is a technology that's billions of, you know, I doesn't even have a number of years old.

00;18;00;26 - 00;18;32;00
Unknown
It's just they're part of the universe and that's so much more valuable. So I see it's really dangerous, like people going too much into the virtual world, which, you know, I'm one to speak. I've, I've gone deeper than most. But I see the edge of it. All right. I see where, like, you actually want to come back and you want to go into the real mystical dimensions because you could, yeah, have a world in VR and have VR headsets laying around my studio here.

00;18;32;00 - 00;18;59;10
Unknown
Like, you can go into VR and have this crazy experience, but it doesn't have the spiritual weight of actually experiencing it in the dream world. So I really think that, you know, having use VR for many years and the designed VR software, I really think that the ultimate experience for the metaverse is the astral plane, and I'd really love to see a resurgence back into like, mystics and dreamers and people who really, you know, it's free.

00;18;59;10 - 00;19;25;01
Unknown
You don't have to pay meta to buy the hardware. You don't need to pay a monthly fee. You don't have to buy. You know, it's like dreaming is free. It's and it's the most sane, amazing metaverse effort in your energy. Yeah, exactly. And it's effortless. It's part of nature's path. So yeah, I'm not too stoked on trying to recreate the metaverse in, digital space.

00;19;25;01 - 00;19;54;08
Unknown
I think we should just let digital tools help our physical world, but not to try to, like, make it so immersive that we just want to spend all our time in there. I think that's super dangerous. And it lead to like, health issues and mental health issues and everything. Yeah, I agree with you. It's scary though, because while I do think it would be cool, like if I could recreate a VR of like my favorite lucid dreams and like re explore my dream environments, that would be cool.

00;19;54;11 - 00;20;11;17
Unknown
But you know, knowing that it's a tool it doesn't have, like you said, as much power as like really being there in the dream world. But knowing that these technologies are going to inevitably advance far beyond what we even can imagine possible right now, whether it's beyond our lifetimes, even, it's just going to continue to advance.

00;20;11;24 - 00;20;37;04
Unknown
So, like, what do you say to, like, not only our generation, but like 50 years in the future, like, how do we protect the sacredness of our consciousness and the astral plane, you know, while still using these tools for good? Yeah. I think there's going to be a psychic war in the future between people who have augmented with AI, and they're going to become quite powerful, potentially.

00;20;37;04 - 00;21;14;19
Unknown
And this is, of course, if we don't self-destruct, there's so many, paths to self-destruction that the technology is actually much more fragile than people think it is like it would only take a couple of nukes to derail the whole thing. Everything. Like it would only take one market crash. Like you don't even need to consider nukes. You could just have one market crash that could just destroy, you know, the whole fragile situation of like, because a data center requires, you know, how many things streaming from all over the world on ships, on planes.

00;21;14;19 - 00;21;38;24
Unknown
It's extremely fragile. And so I don't see it's fix that I will have this domination in the future because there's too much geopolitical tension. And I don't know if that kind of thing could exist amidst this much geopolitical political tension, although, you know, it could if they, you know, navigate that effectively. And so but I do see that you're right.

00;21;38;24 - 00;22;07;02
Unknown
Even if, you know, in a new world, people will redevelop technology. I see there could be a battle between a psychic war, between people who use psychic technology for materialistic ends and people who are truly spiritual, who are people who use psychic technology for spiritual growth and spiritual development. And I can see that happening in a lot of ways, like, we're gonna really have to get smart.

00;22;07;02 - 00;22;39;15
Unknown
Like if it does go in that direction where people augment like Neuralink to the next level, like next dimensional Neuralink. And I've had dreams of that. Like I had a dream that I could share where, yeah, I'd love to hear it. I went into this huge temple and it was just massive and it was very futuristic. It looked like, concept art from like, Magic The Gathering or something like a really sleek, you know, massive temple and had a huge circle in the middle and, and big designs.

00;22;39;18 - 00;22;57;11
Unknown
And I went in and there was, Sam Altman was sitting in the center of it, and he was like, hey, Fong, welcome to my temple. And he's like, but you can't come in. You gotta like, let down this commander persona. You can't pretend like you're in part. And I'm I'm the king here, so you gotta, like, give me obeisance, you know, like, gotta bow to me.

00;22;57;14 - 00;23;17;23
Unknown
And so I was like, all right, this seems pretty cool. Like, you know, so it's like asking for my submission, you know, even walking into this temple, like, sign the agreement or accept cookies or whatever. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I want to see what's in this temple. You know, bow to the tech lord. And then and then I was like, so what you got?

00;23;17;23 - 00;23;45;22
Unknown
And he's like, I got this new VR headset and I know you love VR, so check this out. And so I put it on and and it was like a psychedelic experience. Like it melted my brain into, like, rainbows and my whole body just dissolved and uploaded like I was having, like, a dimethyltryptamine moment in the dream, just going in to this VR headset that Sam Altman gave me.

00;23;45;25 - 00;24;24;01
Unknown
And I was in there. I was like, what the like? This is crazy. Like, everything is like rainbows and super clean, high resolution and it was like a Google Maps. But I could fly anywhere, like anywhere. And there was other there's other beings in there. And so it was like a metaverse thing, but it wasn't just, oh, in my eyes, I could feel like it melted my whole body into the VR and I could see, you know, potentially technology reaching that level if, if there was brain stimulation or they found or if you vibrate the hippocampus at this vibration with this electromagnetic frequency, it dissolves your field of awareness into VR.

00;24;24;01 - 00;24;43;21
Unknown
And I'm sure they'll figure that out. It's just a matter of time. And so it was like getting a preview into that technology. And, it was kind of scary, though, because when I came out, I was like, wait a minute, you this is your technology. Like, this is a guy, a corporation for profit, like, made this alternate reality that melts my current reality.

00;24;43;21 - 00;25;01;22
Unknown
Like, I don't know how I feel about this. This is like, this is dystopian to the max, you know? So I don't know how I feel about tech, tech large taking over consciousness. I don't think that's the way to go. But I do love like, the ancient practices and the shamanic practices and things like that where I think it's going to.

00;25;01;22 - 00;25;30;03
Unknown
So what I was talking about this futuristic war between, people who are augmented, like cybernetically, like cyborgs and like original people. I think original people are going to have to really step the game up. Like, not oh, yeah, VR maybe a little bit, but I won't touch drugs because drugs are bad. Like you're going to have to be like, no, I gotta, I need the help of the drugs I can get have the help of tech, technology and tech.

00;25;30;03 - 00;25;49;05
Unknown
Lord, I need the help of plants because plants have been here for a long time. And so, yeah, ayahuasca or things like this, people are going to have to get mushrooms, like people are going to get really real with psychic technology and not just pussyfoot around like, oh, it's, you know, in the state of this, it's not. Yeah.

00;25;49;08 - 00;26;10;17
Unknown
Like, look at the reality in front of your eyes. Do you want to be powerful or not, or do you want to let tech lords be powerful for you and you just pay them a monthly fee, like make a choice? Because if you can't get get it together in the dream world and have a truly amazing life for yourself, then you're always going to be outsourced to someone else.

00;26;10;23 - 00;26;41;05
Unknown
Oh, I meant check out this new video game. Oh, check out this new thing. Oh, and then you realize you're just becoming a zombie. And like, all your energy is siphoning up in this old cult ritual up into these billionaire, temples. Like what I was seeing in my dream. So, yeah, I think that, people are going to have to see mind altering technologies, as as technology are people are going to have to see drugs as technology and not to abuse it at all.

00;26;41;05 - 00;27;12;04
Unknown
That's even worse. But to see it in a ceremonial way and understanding how to amplify the power of the mind, with that, and everyone's at a different level, like some people are too sensitive that they can't even do that because they already have those powers. Like, I know dreamers who can't barely touch psychedelics because their life is psychedelic, like they are having insane dreams all the time that are psychedelic dreams are like, you know, you don't need that.

00;27;12;04 - 00;27;31;21
Unknown
Like you're already there. But like for other people like me who are a little more dense, it breaks a boundary. It's it punctures through this illusion of like, oh, this world is real. And then you puncture through it with your conscious mind, you see. Oh, whoa. There's like a spirit world. And there's other beings and I can talk to them.

00;27;31;21 - 00;27;58;14
Unknown
And I have my own relationship with these beings and that need to be developed. It doesn't just you don't just, like, have one crazy experience and suddenly, you know, you may talk to God for 10s, but like, it's not going to integrate until you have an ongoing relationship with the spirit world, with the astral world, and I think that's what I'd love to see people develop rather than, you know, just slamming against, oh, the tech lords are evil.

00;27;58;16 - 00;28;22;01
Unknown
Well, what's the alternative? Like they are following the the chain of novelty, like nature is constant evolution of novelty. Always a new species, a new ecosystem, a new a new butterfly, a new frog. It's like it's always creating new things to adapt. Well, we have to adapt then. So right now, the new thing. Oh, look, I got a new app.

00;28;22;01 - 00;28;43;12
Unknown
I got a new app update. I gotta so the novelty curve has gone into technology and humans are like junkies for novelty. So that's just that's like easy pickins. It's like, oh, you you just keep giving them new YouTube channels and you just keep, you know, incentivize them to make their own content on our platform. Then they'll just be coming back to us every day.

00;28;43;12 - 00;29;09;02
Unknown
That's what that's what happened. Right? Because humans are novelty junkies. But the ultimate source of novelty is the dream world. And and so, you know, just as seriously as we take, oh, I need to get $1,000 to buy a new phone so I can whatever you should take your dreams and seriously, like, oh, I need to really, you know, figure out how to how to penetrate into the astral or then remember what happens there so I can enrich my real life through that.

00;29;09;02 - 00;29;26;19
Unknown
And yeah, that's what I'd love to see happen. Along the metaverse client. Meta. Wow, you're really blowing my mind right now. Just a lot of things to think about, you know? And let me tell you, I hear a lot of dreams on this podcast, and that was definitely one of the coolest ones I've ever heard. Very mind blowing.

00;29;26;19 - 00;29;57;22
Unknown
It makes me wonder, like, I don't know, like, I'm sure that governments, elites, billionaires, whatever you call the people with power, you know, they're way ahead of exploring these types of technologies already. And so, you know, I don't know, part of me is like, what if they were entering your dream, you know, but like, oh, they do. I mean, there's, there's a whole like layer, you know, there's the people, you see, who you think are running things which they are in their own way.

00;29;57;25 - 00;30;18;06
Unknown
But then there's there's layers, there's layers. And that one of the layers there is, there's Templars who are like magicians who really money to them is like a magic spell, like it's like a joke. It's like you give them $1 billion. Like I invented money. Like why? I don't need this. I'm working at a whole other level here, you know?

00;30;18;07 - 00;30;39;14
Unknown
I got you guys spend the money, you guys make the money. I I'm not. This is. I know, like, it's a huge responsibility to have that much money. I don't that's not where my responsibilities lie. And so there's magicians that are alive now that work at that level. And there's a lot of practices there. And, some are good, some are dark.

00;30;39;14 - 00;30;57;13
Unknown
You know, there's it's a whole the whole ecosystem of magicians, but you never hear about them. You can only meet them in the astral world. You you can see who they are, you can see what they do. And there's dark spells and all this stuff is real. The rabbit hole goes as deep. Is your wallet many books on magic ever written about this?

00;30;57;14 - 00;31;17;26
Unknown
It's, it's pretty well documented, but yeah, it goes deep. The rabbit hole is interdimensional. Yeah. So I don't get too fixated on, like, the power elites that I see with my eyes, because they're kind of like the pawns in the game. And they're sometimes useful idiots who are like, you know, even trying to make sense of, like, how did I get here?

00;31;17;28 - 00;31;42;12
Unknown
What does this all mean? Does I mean, I am, you know, the tech Jesus or whatever? Like, they're all having their own existential messiah complexes and it's of joke because they're like kind of kids and and like, this bigger. Yeah. They're just like the older bullies. Yeah, exactly. And the universe is so much deeper and so much more ancient and so much, like, more rich with meaning than that.

00;31;42;12 - 00;32;00;27
Unknown
Oh, yeah. You're so right. I love the way your brain works, because it's making me think of a lot of cool possibilities and things. So. Yeah. So, you know, tech aside, like, what about all these ancient practices like, I really tell people a lot, like, focus on your own journey. You know, you are your own guide when it comes to, like, exploring consciousness.

00;32;01;01 - 00;32;27;02
Unknown
So, like, how can we pull from, like, things that have been around from centuries, you know, different cultures and things that have value, dreams and subjective experience more than Western culture. What's a good way to start that journey for somebody who's maybe, you know, not that knowledgeable? Yeah. Like you're talking about shamanism. And, you know, the ultimate tool for shamanism is meditation.

00;32;27;05 - 00;32;54;19
Unknown
Because your mind is the tool that takes you everywhere to the dream world, through your waking world, wherever you know, I see it as there's these Jing Chi Shen, this is these are the three worlds. Are the three jewels in, in Chinese medicine or in the in India. They see it as the physical growth material world.

00;32;54;22 - 00;33;13;13
Unknown
And then they have the astral plane, and then there's like the causal plane or the more spiritual dimension, which is equates to Shen in the, Chinese. So, so you can okay. So I'll translate. So you have the physical world. We're very familiar with the physical world. We know it. We deal with that every day. It's where we live most of the time.

00;33;13;16 - 00;33;49;03
Unknown
And then there's the astral plane, which is the world of Qi also, where, it's an adapter to the spiritual plane. So it's more porous. It's more liquid. It's it flows more. It electromagnetic fields. It's like that, like the astral plane lives in these other kind of possibilities. So that's like the next level. And so learning how to use meditation before you can go into the astral plane and have any kind of control, let alone go to a spiritual plane, you have to control your mind because that's your vessel.

00;33;49;09 - 00;34;17;27
Unknown
Otherwise you just get washed away in a storm and like, you forget what you're even doing. And so meditation would be the single most important thing if you want to do anything dream, recall, shamanistic practices, astral plane, experience. Like to basically, here's what meditation is. Meditation is just learning how to focus your mind. And there's a lot of different ways to do that mantra.

00;34;18;00 - 00;34;40;23
Unknown
People like focus on a mantra that works for some people really well because it can block out like other thoughts, but mantras, just a top level like mantra. If you want to go like deeper and deeper, mantra just gets you so far. At a certain point, the mountain drops off and and you're you're going to go into a world like way beyond words and sounds and things like that, to focus the mind.

00;34;40;23 - 00;35;00;17
Unknown
So, yeah, learning how to focus a mind, learning different meditation, practice something, whatever works, you know, because I have friends who like, have very different meditation practices and they all everyone finds what works for them. You know, you just know you get called to it. You you practice it, it just clicks, you know, after you know, it won't click.

00;35;00;17 - 00;35;18;17
Unknown
Maybe right away, but it might click after like ten times. Like you, you practice something ten days in a row, then it'll either click or not, but you'll have an experience and you'll see right away, like, wow, I'm in way more control of like my hunger today because I did that meditation. I'm way more in control of my mind.

00;35;18;17 - 00;35;40;22
Unknown
Like I'm not just blowing up at this person because they made me angry. Like I actually wow, okay, I could take a deep breath. I can choose how how to react to the situation. And so yeah, that's the that's the first thing that I'd always encourage anyone at any level, is to learn meditation and, and go deep with it, like, because it's not what you think, like meditate.

00;35;40;22 - 00;36;06;15
Unknown
Most people have this like, oh, Shanti, you know, sitting lotus. I'm like, which I do, but you don't have to like. And then you're just sitting there trying to have a silent mind or something. That's not at all what it's about. Like if you're if meditation is boring, you're definitely not practicing right? And I've had this debate with Buddhists for a long time.

00;36;06;18 - 00;36;32;00
Unknown
Some agree, some disagree. But it's been my experience. If you're not, if if meditation is boring, you're not doing it right, because when you're doing it right, you're getting very real results. And it's a very stimulating experience. It's it's like you're you're you're shapeshifting your mind basically into different dimensions, shapes, ways. And you learn intuitively pretty quick how to do that.

00;36;32;03 - 00;37;00;17
Unknown
So yeah, just like if you ever think like meditation should be boring or it's supposed to be disciplinary, that's that's B.S., that's not real meditation. Like the real meditation masters, they're they're crazy ninja like, they, they go to places that, you know, we haven't gone. So. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I see what you're saying. And it is scientifically proven as well that, you know, high positive correlation with frequent meditators and vivid, you know, frequent lucid dreamers.

00;37;00;19 - 00;37;22;24
Unknown
And I can see why it's a very similar muscle in the brain. I do think that like before, like somebody totally new to it, even myself, it's not too new to meditation, but, I'm still kind of in that phase where, like, it's hard for me sometimes to bring my mind back, you know? I don't know if I would call it boring, but I think that's kind of like, once you push through that part, you, you know, eventually it clicks.

00;37;22;26 - 00;37;46;15
Unknown
And everybody has, like, their different way of doing it, like you said, like there's so many different kinds of meditation, like, it really just a find what works for you kind of thing. Same with dreams, you know, hundreds of different techniques to lucid dream and you really just find what works for you. Yeah. And it requires a full hearted practice because, you know, I even for years didn't practice full heartedly meditation.

00;37;46;15 - 00;38;12;09
Unknown
And so I, it made me bored. So I'm just like sitting there like looking at the clock like, oh, the done yet like, can I stand up yet like, oh, I can't wait to eat breakfast or whatever. Like, that's not me. You're not meditating. Like, if you're doing that, you're you're waiting for your meditation to be over. But it never started like true meditation has to be wholeheartedly and you have to go all the way into it.

00;38;12;12 - 00;38;29;22
Unknown
Put your full mind onto it. It's better to start with like one minute if that's all you can do for one minute, because I feel like that's all like a commitment or commitment. And I tricked myself for a long time with that one minute technique where I'm like, I don't have 20 minutes to meditate around. Oh, one minute, no problem.

00;38;29;22 - 00;38;47;17
Unknown
And like 20 minutes later, I'm still sitting there, right? Because I started with just one minute and it was felt so good. I just had to keep going. Do you use an alarm or do you now just kind of meditate until you're done? I just meditate free form now. Like I started meditating when I was a teenager.

00;38;47;17 - 00;39;11;13
Unknown
I'm 43 now, and, it's just baked itself into my reality, over the years. And it kind of comes in waves, like I'd go on, like, long meditation retreats for like, 40 days and, like, go super deep into, like, absorbing a technique. And then I would, you know, practice 90 minutes a day for, like, you know, years.

00;39;11;16 - 00;39;32;25
Unknown
But then I would, then I would do a final integration where I just don't do any practice at all. I like sitting practice, but then I have no excuse to not be meditating every moment of every day. And, so this is like the kind of integration of meditation. But then, of course, when you do sit and you do focus, then it's like really fast.

00;39;32;25 - 00;39;49;09
Unknown
You, you start, you know, when you do take time to sit and focus your mind, then you're just like a night, like a knife cutting through butter. You have boom, boom, boom, boom, boom going down the dimensions. And of course, that the mind's always distracting. Like your challenge, you had it with meditation where it's hard to keep your mind.

00;39;49;09 - 00;40;09;16
Unknown
Focus will always be there. That that will always be a challenge. Even if you became a master, it would always be a challenge. And so it's it's more about how can you, like, sink into deeper states of absorption where those other things don't affect you. And like, for me, the biggest thing has been the body as an anchor.

00;40;09;18 - 00;40;31;07
Unknown
So in meditation, I go deeply into the body as an anchor because what better do I have to focus my mind than this? My earth element. And and it's an anchor. Like I can just, like, put all my attention, like, on the body. I'm usually like, spaced out and in a digital place. So it's like, feels really nice to like come into my body helps to focus the energy.

00;40;31;07 - 00;41;00;03
Unknown
And there's a lot of practices you can do, with that. The practice that I do that I can even recommend and explain on right now, for for advanced or beginners that you can just practice is one thing and it's always good is to follow the breath, try to feel the breath anywhere. Just feel the air moving, follow the breath and try to get it down to a point where you can hear your own heartbeat.

00;41;00;05 - 00;41;31;21
Unknown
As soon as I can hear my own heartbeat, I'm in the zone. And now I'm using the breath to focus on the heartbeat. And that just that. Because there's a whole thing in biofeedback. Like there's a lot of science around this in biofeedback, where if you can get in a feedback loop with your own heartbeat, it has all kinds of profound physiological effects, mental effects, focusing effects, because the heartbeat itself is a very deep signal.

00;41;31;24 - 00;41;53;03
Unknown
It's telling you where your body's at. It's it's an indicator of health, well-being. Your heart rate variability tells you a lot, too. And so just by your mind, getting into a feedback loop with the heart, the heart and the mind like this, once that energy is moving, that who just it really helps me to focus my mind.

00;41;53;03 - 00;42;14;27
Unknown
And so the breath is just there to kind of like condense the awareness to a subtle enough place where I can feel my heart beating and then just focus on the heartbeat and like, that'll cut through dimensions right there. Like just that. Practice alone. And that that's a preliminary practice for many other types of meditation that can come from that.

00;42;15;03 - 00;42;41;16
Unknown
And it's also, at the end of the day, what you might end up doing all the time. So yeah, I, I do find my personal practice is what I just shared. For concentration practice is to really just follow the breath like set, be perfectly comfortable, create a ritual space, focus on the breath, and then try to get subtle enough that you can feel your own heartbeat.

00;42;41;18 - 00;42;58;11
Unknown
And then that's just that's the next gateway. Yeah. Of that you're inspiring to get back into my meditation practice, I was good at it for a while. And then yeah, I just kind of dropped off. So I'm going to get back into it. I like using the breath as well. That's like one of the best anchors for me personally.

00;42;58;11 - 00;43;26;17
Unknown
So I'll take notes. Do you have you ever meditated inside a dream? Yeah, long time ago. I don't have vivid details, but I recall the concept of doing that. It's really intense. It's. I remember doing it and it was, like, more intense than usual. The meditation, I've done one. There's a couple of practices I've done. There's a practice called dream yoga.

00;43;26;19 - 00;43;55;24
Unknown
It's a Zen Tibetan practice, which I don't practice actively now, but I practice it actively in the past. And I was able to this is a very powerful practice. I was able to just after about ten days of practicing, go into the dream world and completely hold my conscious thread like there was no I fell asleep moment. It was like, I'm awake, I'm putting my head down.

00;43;55;24 - 00;44;23;27
Unknown
I'm doing the dream yoga practice. I'm in a lucid dream like it was an unbroken stream of consciousness. So there's cool practices like like that. Like you can help to get into it. And yeah, another experience I wanted to share because it's phenomenological and it's rare. I, I've, I've not met other people who have experienced this, but I would love to hear if anyone did, who have experienced this.

00;44;24;00 - 00;44;38;11
Unknown
And it showed me a lot about how the dream world is. So this was a couple of years ago. I was taking a nap, just on my couch, taking a nap.

00;44;38;13 - 00;44;51;24
Unknown
Laying down. And I broke into this liminal space where I could suddenly remember at least four years of my dreams.

00;44;51;27 - 00;45;19;19
Unknown
Like, I broke into, like, the honeypot of dream memories. Just in a liminal state. And, like, things I never wrote down. Things I didn't even remember. And. But they're all there. Like years and years of dream. Recall was all like, I just slipped into it and, just trying to have a nap. And it wasn't every dream. It was all the dreams in a specific world.

00;45;19;19 - 00;45;41;06
Unknown
And I could remember and see how that world evolves over time. Oh, look, this world is populated by these characters, these buildings, this landscape. And I can remember, oh, after a few months, this building popped up and then these characters appeared and I realized there's a whole city with consistency and dream characters coming and going, evolving over years.

00;45;41;06 - 00;46;01;08
Unknown
And they could remember like hundreds of events that that happened in there, like this adventure. And I and I know that guy, and he became a clown. And those guys turned weird and they disappeared. Where did those guys go? And he took that building double time and they turned pink and like, oh, this whole dynamic City of Dreamers was all in my memory.

00;46;01;08 - 00;46;26;18
Unknown
I realized I had dreamed those things for years. This is so cool. Okay, this is making me really happy right now because I will get I have a similar experience, but I've always had this feeling that every dream I've ever had is somewhere in our memory bank. You know, each individual person and life experience as well. Like it's deep in our subconscious, even if we can't remember it, like dreams we've had since childhood, you know?

00;46;26;25 - 00;46;49;14
Unknown
And I've always wanted to access this, like Akashic memory Bank of dreams. And I did have one dream where it's like leaving my brain alone. I tried to access an old dream or, like, an old dreamscape, and I was able to do it. And I do have these persistent dream worlds that I sometimes go back to when I'm lucid.

00;46;49;16 - 00;47;13;08
Unknown
And I can remember usually, like, where I left off the last time. But it was only one time that I intentionally, like, reentered an old dream. And ever since then, I've been like, I know that there's more in there. Like, they're all in there, and I kind of have this, like, note to self when I transition into the next world to, like, go back and rewatch all these dreams that I haven't remembered, you know?

00;47;13;10 - 00;47;30;28
Unknown
But the concept of the persistent realm is cool and totally real, and it's actually like trending online right now. Like people are calling it mall World or, you know, they're like mapping out their own dream world with the bathrooms and the malls and the parks and the airports, and everyone's got like different iterations of these dream worlds.

00;47;30;28 - 00;47;57;23
Unknown
And it's just such a cool online representation of the collective consciousness. Wow, I love that. That's amazing. I love yeah, it that your intuition is right. Spot on. Like they're all there. You know, people call it different things. I don't think this was the Akashic Records. I've experienced the cosmic records before, but this this was just my brain or whatever, like my personal memories of all these dreams that had happened.

00;47;57;23 - 00;48;18;14
Unknown
And that gave me a lot of comfort in knowing that it's all there. Like, if I forgot a dream. It's not lost forever. Like it's still rattling around in there somewhere and doing its work, you know, and so I, I always really appreciate, appreciate that experience. And it's never happened again. That was a one time thing. It just was there to show me what's possible.

00;48;18;16 - 00;48;39;20
Unknown
And then it, you know, vanished after a while. Well, yeah. That's interesting. I guess when I was mentioning Akashic Records, I'm more so meant, like, you know, our personal dream records. But I understand that that's like a term for, like, a collective library of, like, all of existence. So which, where part of what you're part of and, you know, who knows?

00;48;39;22 - 00;49;02;17
Unknown
We don't know how dream, how memories work at all. Like maybe our own personal memories are accessed from the Akashic records. And the brain is just a receiver, like a cryptographic receiver sending a signal like, yeah, I'm authorized to get that memory because I'm the one who made it. And like, that's all the brain is. We don't really know because it's it's hard to tell where they're stored and how this works and this.

00;49;02;23 - 00;49;24;26
Unknown
And the more science we do the questions is become more profound. Yeah, yeah. Yes. And we realize how much we don't know. And like, you know, I'm big into science, I love research, I'm in all the conferences and I'm I'm at the forefront of like seeing what neuroscientists are doing. And I was surprised to find out that we don't really know what's happening, like, when it comes to consciousness.

00;49;25;02 - 00;49;48;07
Unknown
There's no solid consensus. There's no really good technology to really measure what's going on in the brain. I mean, we have EEG and fMRI and that's about it. And like that tells us physical matter things. But like we're going to have to develop new technology and more importantly, a paradigm shift for all of society to really understand that there's more out there, which a lot of people are there, but there's still a lot of skeptics out there.

00;49;48;13 - 00;50;16;05
Unknown
So I guess to put this into question format, like where do you see science going and how do we get people to really move away from materialism and kind of open up their minds literally? Yeah, this is really interesting. And science is getting juicy now at this post internet era and post AI era. And, I think the sciences is like to me, some of the most exciting science happening is called DMT.

00;50;16;07 - 00;50;46;05
Unknown
Have you have you heard of that now can you summarize it? Yeah. So DMT is there's this endogenous molecule called DMT that's in our brains. It's active. There's a lot of research. Well, there's not a lot of research, but there's more and more research about it. Seems to be active during REM sleep. It seems to be, active during attention shifts, like in birth and death to birth and death.

00;50;46;05 - 00;51;16;07
Unknown
And I've heard that also around it. And usually you just experience it endogenously. So if you have a crazy dream and everything melts into rainbows, that that's possibly in an endogenous DMT experience and so they found a way to just inject it into your blood, a consistent amount, which dissolves your sense of identity, dissolves your sense of the world around you, but it keeps your cognitive.

00;51;16;09 - 00;51;37;28
Unknown
It's like a really intense psychedelic drug that doesn't affect your cognitive ability at all. So you're fully you you're fully you can remember everything, but your whole world just dissolved into rainbow light. And now you're talking to beings in other dimensions. And this gets to like, very old things. You know, this could get dangerous. You could meet beings, open portals, that things could happen right with this.

00;51;37;28 - 00;52;06;12
Unknown
So it needs to be done with the right spiritual oversight and intentions. But this is happening if you look it up like there's these retreats now that people go on, there's research programs where they put people into this extremely vivid dream like psychedelic trance state for 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes even longer. And they meet all kinds of beings, entities reliably.

00;52;06;15 - 00;52;31;13
Unknown
So it's not just like, oh, maybe I'll have a dream or not. No, they're like, you're gonna go into another dimension. Now, it's scientifically certain that this world will dissolve. You will see rainbows, you will go and meet beings on other dimensions. And so they're going in this process. Now, the science and so the big shift in science there that really the revolutionary shift in science is using the human experience as a measuring device.

00;52;31;19 - 00;52;51;10
Unknown
Because you can't prove that I had a dream. But did I have a dream? Of course I had a dream. But science like we can't prove you had a dream. Well, you just throwing all that data out. Well, you could lie. Yeah, well, so. So exactly. You could lie. And so. And that's not science doesn't like that you could lie.

00;52;51;11 - 00;53;24;08
Unknown
And so the way to do it scientifically is, is through. It's a combination of statistical analysis of subjective experiences. And I believe with AI and using that to find patterns, people who don't know each other, people who didn't even know they are being studied potentially, like just if you collected enough data and, and, correlate it to each other, find patterns from subjective experiences, dreams, mystical experiences, meditations, things like that.

00;53;24;10 - 00;53;53;21
Unknown
I think we're gonna have a whole new form of science, and it's going to tell us about the mind, about other dimensions, about beings, about the ecosystem of consciousness that we live inside of the earth, the stars. It's going to start to reveal, like all these substratum that are there like aliens even, or whatever, non-human intelligence or whatever, you know, it's that politically correct thing to call them, because a lot of the aliens apparently live on this planet for a long time, so you can't really call them aliens because you want to include them.

00;53;53;21 - 00;54;17;27
Unknown
So, you know, they're just non-humans, but we're not sure what species they're if they respect them, we have to respect them. You know, like, that's fine. So I think we're going to discover, like there's we're probably going to discover through this process that there's other civilizations on this planet that we don't even know about. Like, it could be the whales, could be that the whales are like super advanced dreamers.

00;54;17;27 - 00;54;38;11
Unknown
And we just like, we're like, hey, who are these? I keep having these visions of these majestic creatures and you eventually get down to the bottom. It's like, those are the whales. Like we were just talking to the whales the whole time. Like, oh, yeah, they're all telepathic. Yeah, they're in your dream. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I think octopus as a whole species have some sort of interdimensional thing going on that well.

00;54;38;18 - 00;55;02;04
Unknown
Oh, yeah, that's 100%. They look like aliens, too. They. They don't go to hiding it, you know? Exactly. Yeah. They're just, like, from inner earth. Whatever the heck is in there. Yeah. That's cool. Wow, this is awesome. You're really blowing my mind. So I want to kind of give you, like, a mini platform to, like, tell me, like, anything else has been blowing your mind lately.

00;55;02;04 - 00;55;23;03
Unknown
Like, you seem so deep into this space, like nothing is surprising anymore, but, like, what are you interested, like, in this consciousness world these days? Yeah, like, what I'm doing these days is building dome shows. So dome show is like a 360 experience that goes in a planetarium or a projection dome or an LED dome and, or a sphere.

00;55;23;03 - 00;55;42;10
Unknown
Some are like spherical, like the sphere. Las Vegas, that's like a big dome. Like it's like slanted forward. It's like a big dome. So the last couple of years, I've been developing dome shows because I find, like I did VR for eight years, I made a program called Microdose VR with Andrew Jones and my friend Scott Heads drum.

00;55;42;12 - 00;56;11;21
Unknown
We were like a team, and we did that for eight years. And then VR kind of isn't at a point where there's enough people using it, and the hardware is clunky, and it didn't really evolve to the place that I was hoping it would. So but in the process of doing that, I developed software for domes. So I made Microdose VR work inside of a dome context where I can have VR controllers and instead of like I take off my headset and these the VR controllers and I'm like moving and painting and 3D and stuff in a dome.

00;56;11;23 - 00;56;36;28
Unknown
And so that was really fun that the first time I saw our VR work in the dome, I thought, this is my new life path. Like, you know, you can fit 500 people in this VR headset and we're all on the same journey together. It was like a new form of filmmaking, because I always wanted to be a filmmaker and did a lot of short form stuff, but I never got up to like the longer stuff until now.

00;56;36;28 - 00;57;02;08
Unknown
So I just, earlier this year, I just finished, a dome film called Chakra Journey, and it's opening, later this year in Bali. There's this really beautiful dome at a healing center in Bali, healing centers called Pyramids of Qi. And the dome is called the on my dome. And so I built this experience called Chakra Journey, which, it's, 50 minute experience.

00;57;02;10 - 00;57;35;15
Unknown
The film itself is 50 minutes, and it goes through all the different chakras and activates them, and it's it's basically what I call a new format, transmission of consciousness. So I'm trying to create an immersive experience where you go in there and just just transmit you into, another world, like, like an effective drug would do, but focused on meditation, focused on you healing shadow work, you know, going through and, my girlfriend helped me with that.

00;57;35;15 - 00;57;55;12
Unknown
She did, like, a great job in the narration and, like, just helping you know, guide the whole thing. And, so we're a team. And so we did that, show chakra journey. My girlfriend name is son Beau. She's another prolific dreamer and like, super creative artist and stuff. Like, she's super awesome son Beau Empress son Beau is her, music name.

00;57;55;14 - 00;58;20;23
Unknown
And so I made I created a a dome show and that went really well. And then my friend Howard, who's, he's a young psychologist and he's been like, help me interpret dreams and help me do shadow work. And for like, over 15 years, maybe 17 years, we've been tight and amazing young in psychologist. Like he's done this for over 50 years.

00;58;20;23 - 00;58;40;12
Unknown
Like he's his whole job is being deep in people's shadows and subconscious. He's like the owl. He like, sees your shadows before you do. And he's like, so poetic that he doesn't call it out. He coaxes it out so you realize what your problem. So you heal yourself. He's not just there to like, you know, give you easy answers.

00;58;40;12 - 00;59;03;07
Unknown
And but he's, like, very skillful and like a shamanic, psychologist and so he, good old friend of mine, he, he saw shocker journeys like, wow, let's make a dome show, around this material. So we're making a dome show right now called Cosmic Humanity. And it's all about upgrading consciousness. So it's this one will be for planetariums.

00;59;03;07 - 00;59;32;03
Unknown
The one I did, chocolate journey is for healing center domes where everyone lays on their back. But this one is for planetariums. So next year, we'll be bringing this to planetariums. And it's a transmission of consciousness. It's very dreamy. It basically teaches people complementarity. Like instead of seeing the world is like at war and we're all conflicting, it helps to attune and entrain your consciousness to seeing how it's like yin yang, sun and moon.

00;59;32;09 - 00;59;57;04
Unknown
Everything is like actually harmonic and balanced and like how to come into harmony with that. So the whole, the whole dome experience is, is a transmission of consciousness to. Yeah, to transmit really his life work. Howard's life work of discoveries about psychology. Through my artwork, to, yeah. To be an immersive experience. Wow. That is incredible.

00;59;57;07 - 01;00;13;06
Unknown
I already knew you were a cool person, but this is a whole other level. I would love to experience something like that someday. So where can people find you? Like, if they want to learn more? Do you have, like, a website or anywhere where you show, like what, your work or anything? Yeah, totally. Yeah. You can check out studio Dot.

01;00;13;06 - 01;00;34;17
Unknown
Thanks, Tom Ong Fong, studio dot thanks, Tom. That's you can see my dome work and the stuff I'm doing there and then just fong.com is like the parent for that. Where you can see my archive of like all the projects that I've done over the years. Awesome. That's exciting. And I wanted to ask you to in the beginning, because you mentioned your girlfriend is also a prolific dreamer.

01;00;34;22 - 01;00;54;09
Unknown
Do you guys ever share dreams or have, like, overlapping experiences? We do. We share dreams a lot. Overlapping experiences are usually symbolic. I haven't had a dream where we're both recall the exact same dream. I would love for that to happen. I've. I've experienced that before, with a friend many years ago. But, Yeah, we share our dreams a lot.

01;00;54;10 - 01;01;13;05
Unknown
Like, we both, interpret the dreams, share our dreams. She helps me to interpret my dreams. Even after the young Ian analysis, she'll be like, oh, I see you're going through this in your life. And so that's why you're having this dream. Oh, yeah. That really helps me to, like, integrate. And I hold space to reflect on her dreams.

01;01;13;05 - 01;01;36;03
Unknown
And, yeah, it's really a deep part of our relationship has been, exploring the dream world together. I love that I think it's so important to, like, have community, whether it's friends, family, neighbors, you know, the guy at the gas station, whatever it is, just to normalize like this discourse, which is a huge reason why I do the podcast, between, you know, dreamers, non dreamers just talking about this kind of thing.

01;01;36;03 - 01;01;55;21
Unknown
So yeah, let's cool. So let's see, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about before we close off. We had a lot of important and interesting points. So much to think about. There's a lot there. You know, I, all the things that I came into this that I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to share, I feel that I shared it whether you asked or not.

01;01;55;21 - 01;02;17;26
Unknown
I just shared it. So that gets mostly there. Yeah. Good. I just want to make sure that you feel comfortable with everything you said and there wasn't anything, you know, lingering. There's so many things we talked about that each one has its own rabbit hole. So maybe in the future, a year or so from now, we can do a part two and touch base on how technology evolves, because I'm sure at this time next year there'll be ten times more updates to discuss.

01;02;17;29 - 01;02;36;05
Unknown
Yeah, I'd love that. Yeah, just call me on any time and we can go down any of these rabbit holes. This was kind of an overview of different topics, and if you want to focus on any one of these things, I'm happy to, to do that. Exactly. Yeah. But I loved it because, you know, all this psycho spiritual technology that's evolving is important.

01;02;36;05 - 01;02;52;24
Unknown
And I want people to know, like, where we currently stand as a society, and then they can go on and do their own research, you know? So that's awesome. Yeah. Thanks. I mean, I thanks for having me on here. I really appreciate it. I love your podcast. It's really cool. Like there's not a lot of podcast. Just focus on dreams.

01;02;52;24 - 01;03;15;12
Unknown
And it's such a powerful like I had a yeah I won't go down that rabbit hole, but I've, I've for so many years, like trying to draw more attention to the dream world because we spend a third of our life sleeping much of that time dreaming. And it just becomes this footnote and it it really is so profound and it's so incredibly deep.

01;03;15;12 - 01;03;42;26
Unknown
Like what I found is that about the dream world is that, through Carl Jung's work and through studying my own dreams is there's a super intelligent consciousness that's always trying to teach me something, and it knows me better than I know myself. And it's always right on the edge of, like, delivering a customized teaching just for me, just so I can get through this block just so I can finally see things in a fresh way.

01;03;43;02 - 01;04;08;04
Unknown
Just it's always there, egg me forward. And that's the technology of the dreams. That's completely magical. Like, we have no idea where does this super intelligent consciousness that that creates our dreams. Like it's obviously part of our part of us, but it also transcends what we are. And there's just such a clear intelligence that speaking to us through our dreams all the time, if only we can listen and remember.

01;04;08;11 - 01;04;45;02
Unknown
And so I'm really glad that you're drawing attention to just dreams in general, because it's it's incredibly powerful. Thank you. Yeah, that means a lot. And what a beautiful like quote to just summarize everything. So I think people really take a lot out of this episode. And yeah, thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks, Amina.