The Measured Golf Podcast
With so many amazing things happening in the Measured Golf Community, we have decided to start a podcast to discuss all of the amazing things that we are seeing have a positive impact on our athletes. Whether it be Ground Reaction Forces, Golf Biomechanics, or strategies for making the most out of your limited practice time, we hope that this podcast becomes a resource for you to finally become the player you know you can be!
Video of the podcast can be found by visiting our Measured Golf YouTube page.
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To learn more, or to visit the Measured Golf facility in person, please, find us on the web at measuredgolf.com.
The Measured Golf Podcast
Unlocking Golf Excellence: Insights from Dr. Joe LaCaze on Body Mechanics and Rotex Technology
Unlock the secrets to a better golf game with insights from Dr. Joe LaCaze, a Navy SEAL veteran and renowned expert in human body mechanics. Tune in as we journey through the evolution of the golf swing, understanding the pivotal role of body mechanics, and explore the groundbreaking Rotex device. Learn how Joe's innovative approach has simplified techniques that once seemed complex, making it easier for golfers at any level to enhance their performance.
Through engaging discussions, we highlight the importance of effective communication in education and coaching, drawing parallels between Navy SEAL training and academic mentorship. Discover how hands-on experience and learning from world-class experts can lead to rapid skill acquisition and deeper comprehension. We stress the need for clear and accessible communication to simplify complex concepts, making them understandable and actionable for learners of all ages.
Dive into the fascinating origins of the Rotex device, born from Joe's personal battles with severe back pain and injuries. From a late-night breakthrough with a Frisbee to a revolutionary tool in competitive sports, the Rotex story is a testament to innovation and perseverance. We'll also cover essential topics like optimizing performance through sleep and breathing, the role of muscular activation, and the significance of proper pelvic alignment. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting, this episode is packed with valuable insights to elevate your game and improve your physical well-being.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Measured Golf Podcast, where we have a new season, which means we have new guests, and we're very, very fortunate because we have maybe one of the most influential people that I've met in the golf industry industry, and this person has done a lot to really help me not only better understand things that I thought that I was aware of, but also has helped me become more aware of things that have an impact within the golf swing that maybe I wasn't aware of before. So this person has just been awesome, has been a wealth of knowledge for myself and, in addition to bringing knowledge to the table, I think what really separates this person is that they are an applicator and they are probably the best human body applicator that I've ever met and they have an awesome device that actually allows me to do my job better. And the thing that makes this device so great is that I can send it home with people, should they choose to buy it, and they can use it, and they don't need to know what I know about ground reaction forces or how the body's put together. They can just get on this thing. It's very simple to use and they can get better at not only moving, but they can get better at playing golf.
Speaker 1:And the thing that I'm really going to enjoy about this conversation today is we're definitely going to talk about golf, but more so we're going to talk about how the body kind of equates to this. So, without further ado, my man the absolute baddest dude I've ever met in my life at 74 years of age, spent 22 years as a Navy SEAL and trainer and do not call him a civilian, because he is anything but that and we are very, very fortunate to be joined by Dr Joe LaCaze today. So, doc, how are you doing? Good morning, thanks for joining us, bud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my pleasure, michael. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the kind introduction. I just attended a Navy SEAL reunion out in California and I would put myself in the lower part of the baddest dude on the planet.
Speaker 1:I got a picture taken with jocko I'll I'll send you later after the podcast yeah, yeah, that guy's pretty intense man like I like you because, like I know that you can be jocko, but you're not jocko all the time, which is kind of refreshing you know what?
Speaker 2:my wife, my wife, wants me to be jocko none of the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, I believe my wife wants me to be the force play guy none of the time. So I totally understand where you're coming from. But I meant what I said. Joe, and you know me and you have talked quite a bit and do talk quite a bit pretty regularly and you know I was fortunate Mutual acquaintance of ours. Larry Hamilton invited me to a workshop that both you and Fast Eddie Fernandez were doing up at Wayne State and you know I've known about Rotex for years.
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 1:Like I had a unit not two units that uses a pair. But I had a unit that somebody had given me years ago and I used it for various things but like I didn't understand really the method behind what it does and because I didn't understand that method I kind of dismissed it a little bit, to be honest with you. So getting the opportunity to come up to Wayne State because of Larry and hosting this amazing workshop that you and Eddie do together, you know I'm sitting there listening and I obviously was intrigued by the Rote. You know I'm sitting there listening and I obviously was intrigued by the Rotex and I knew that there was something there that I didn't know. But I'll always show up and listen to an old SEAL talk about things, like it's just a different perspective. So, and Larry invited me and Larry I know Larry really well, so if he tells me to come it's generally worth my time.
Speaker 1:So you know we met and one thing led to another and I agreed with 99.999% of what you had to say and we kind of got to the sticking point. And this is where I really think that your brilliance kind of shines through, joe is that we got to the sticking point on a particular topic with Eddie and I said you know, I have four splites. And you were like really, and I was like I can have four splites here in an hour. And we had four splites there pretty much within the hour, and it was just, it was it wasn't like I have to prove anything to you or you have to prove anything to me, it was just like okay, well, like let's get them on the plates and let's see, let's see.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, and it was like this really open kind of debate not even debate, that's the wrong word but it was just this open learning from everybody involved that was in the room and it carried on to dinner. And I've just really appreciated that conversation because not only did I feel like I impacted maybe Eddie's and your understanding of what I was trying to bring to the table, but I learned a ton in the process as well. So that's the thing I've really enjoyed about my time with you. Man is like we're always trying to figure out how we can answer the question a little more simply without losing the integrity of what we're trying to share, and I really do appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. The way I remember it was that, oh, he's actually doing what you guys say he's doing, and you were able to prove that to us on the force plates for sure. So you're the force plate guy, obviously.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I play one on YouTube every now and then. So that's you know. It's just. I had a great conversation with another podcast guest yesterday and we were kind of talking about this very thing.
Speaker 1:And I am not a Navy SEAL and I do not know what it is like to be a Navy SEAL. I can't pretend to understand what that's like, and I'm also not a professional golfer, even though technically I am, because I do play as a professional golfer but I'm not on the PGA Tour right. So it's difficult for me to teach people who are way better than me at doing something. And if all I have to go on is what I know and what I can do and what I can produce, then I'm going to be very limited in my ability to help golfers who are better than me.
Speaker 1:And the really cool thing that I love about the technology side of golf is not so much that I like the fact that a lot of people think they can distill everything down to one data point. But for somebody who wants to learn the ins and outs of how it actually works, you can do that and then you can actually teach yourself a better methodology and then, when you know it you can actually hit some of those same shots that those tour guys can hit, and now you've kind of taught yourself how to do it, but you've learned it through technique instead of learning it through digging it out of the dirt Right. So I just think it adds a little more clarity to the topic when we can actually look at things together.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure, absolutely, and you kind of hit upon. A pet peeve of mine is somebody will find one data point, somebody will find one spot in the body and that will be the holy grail for them and then they will start to teach it. Just for maybe even a bad example, but every once in a while I will see something run like a wildfire through the internet. Somebody will see what the psoas muscle does. And for everybody that doesn't know what the psoas muscle does, it attaches to your lumbar spine, attaches somewhere on your femur and basically flexes the hip. And then they start calling it the primal muscles, the most important muscle in the body, and that's all that person knows about the body. And it is so much more complicated than that. And to your point is you're an expert in what you do, I'm an expert in what I do. We have a lot to learn from each other, except for how old are you?
Speaker 1:Michael, I turn 40 in November.
Speaker 2:Awesome, well, happy birthday in a couple of months, right? Thank you, brother. As a good age, that's when you first start learning.
Speaker 1:But I will tell you.
Speaker 2:I will tell you you do what you do and I know how, how hard you work at understanding what you do and working, working with your players, um, but I'll tell you flat right, unless you want to spend 16 20 hours a day for the rest of your life learning what I know about the body, you don't have enough time. No Right, the same exact thing, me want to learn what you know. I just don't have enough time to know exactly what you know.
Speaker 1:So what we have to do is we have to rely upon each other for the truth, and I think that's what you see a lot with high performing teams, and you know we could talk about different types of teams, but we'll keep it. You know, specific to golf and one thing that I don't think gets talked about very much at all, which is very surprising, because they they reference it but they never directly talk about it. But when we see a pga tour player, there's a team of people behind them and I really think that that goes overlooked a lot, because I think what makes Scotty Shuffler great is Randy Smith, and the reason I say that is because Randy Smith is really giving a masterclass right now in coaching, and what I mean by that is that, you know, scotty and Randy have been together forever, I think since he was seven years of age. So I mean, that is a very strong bond and that is not a coconut tree that you want to go about shaking Right, like there is a lot of stuff there that exists between them, a lot of inferred knowledge, and there's just a lot there that you don't necessarily want to play around with too much because it's such a strong bond. However, randy and Scotty got out on the PGA tour and things were going fine, but you know, scotty was like really not happy with his putting and Scotty wanted to make more putts.
Speaker 1:And you know, I'm sure that Randy dug in and I bet Randy went and asked everybody that he could find what's going on. You know what I mean. Like Randy is a no stone unturned kind of guy, man, like he's a good Texan, you know. So like he's out there and he's, like you know, kicking every rattlesnake and shaking every cactus, trying to find out what's going on. And lo and behold, all of a sudden Scotty Scheffler has a putting coach. He goes over to phil kenyon and it's like, well, wait a minute. How's randy feel about that? That must, oh, wait a minute now. Uh-oh, we're adding. You know what I mean, and we've seen this happen to where we add pieces to teams and it goes terribly wrong in the past. But they were so thoughtful about it and they had done so much vetting and so much work beforehand that when you go out there any tour event that Scotty Scheffler's at, not only are you going to see him working with Phil Kenyon on the putting green, but you're going to watch Randy standing right over top of them. And it's not because he doesn't think Phil Kenyon's going to say something that's smart or true. It's because he wants to make sure that he's learning what Scotty's learning so that they're all getting better together, so that they can all help keep Scotty on the rails and like dude. That's magic, that is really magic.
Speaker 1:And the ego thing is tough, man, because you know, it's very easy for me to believe that I've learned all that I've learned about whatever I know. It's easy for me to believe that I've learned all that I've learned about whatever I know. It's easy for me to believe that I can go and learn a new topic very quickly and be dangerous. And the truth is I probably could and I could kind of triage things a bit, but when it comes to the real nuts and bolts and digging in and really having an honest understanding and totality of what I'm looking at, I don't have the background. I just simply don't. So that's where I need guys like yourself who actually have a doctorate. And the thing that I want to know about Because for me it's always been about trying to get as close to the root source of the knowledge, versus trying to hear it through like playing tin can and then by the time you hear it it's a diluted message.
Speaker 1:So I just love having an opportunity for me personally to learn from a guy like yourself, because I don't think what you learned is like you learned a lot from a book. But I think what makes you special is most of what you say and talk about and do doesn't come from a book and like that's that's the application side of it that I think is kind of missed a lot. We think that by knowing something smarter than somebody else, we have an advantage. But you can have the smartest, most you know awesome brain in the world, but if you can't execute the physical part of it it doesn't really matter. And like that's where I think you kind of bridge that gap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. Getting back to finding the best people to integrate into your system as Navy SEALs, we had a lot of money right, so if we want to learn climbing, we would go find the best person in the world for climbing and fighting the best person in the world for fighting and free falling Same thing and shooting same thing. We spent three weeks out in the desert shooting tens of thousands of rounds and getting taught by a master of that art Everything you can think of. We went and found the best person in the world to teach us not teaching each other, unless we have that in-house, and sometimes we did but it was amazing how fast you can become really, really good when you're learning from the master, rather than somebody that learned from the master 20 generations removed.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's unreal, and I talked to my young athletes about this all the time. Uh, because it really sticks out to me, cause I, like I said, I turned 40 in November and it took me eight years to get an undergrad degree, believe it or not. So I was in college for a long time, uh, and I was not a great student because, quite frankly, I didn't understand how any of it mattered, of it mattered, so I just really was not ready for school when I did it. However, in eight years of my higher education that I completed which is how I like to say it what I really noticed was I took a lot of classes and I really, to be perfectly blunt and honest, there were two classes that stuck out to me, and one was an accounting 101, 102 class taught by a guy by the name of Edmund Fenton, and the other one was like a business law, business ethics, but it was multiple business classes, but it was taught by the same gentleman by the name of Burke Christensen, and I remember both their names to this day because, honestly, they made class fun for me. They were the only two classes I remember anything about from college and I understand that they're way more applicable to what I do now.
Speaker 1:Currently, however, when I would go to those classes, those guys demanded my respect and they never said a word, they never asked for it, they never begged for it, they just came in. They looked professional because they were. They both were retired from the thing they were teaching, right Like one was a super successful business lawyer, one was a super successful accountant, so like they had this world of experience to go with the book that they were teaching from. And now, all of a sudden, when we put knowledge with some experience, we wind up with wisdom. And these guys had wisdom because they had real world experience. They were applicators and I mean those classes were fun, they were engaging, I learned, but the minute that I left the classroom and I, I and I didn't do this very often, but in these classes I did more so than others. But like when I would open the book to read the same information that those gentlemen had just taught me, it might as well have been written in Chinese, joe.
Speaker 2:Most professional books are written by authors for their peers and to convince their peers that they're smarter than they are Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's the truth and I don't disagree with that. But it was that in my opinion it was that these guys were masters of the information, like they could make you see the forest through the trees and to your point, kind of right, like the book is very much the trees because it's just conceptual and it's not tied to anything and X can equal Y sometimes, but not like, and kind of like you started your seminar with right, Like is the book complex or is it complicated?
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly, yeah, and most people we won't even go into that right now.
Speaker 2:That's a complex problem. So getting back to going to school, to going to school in in my second semester of getting a doctorate in chiropractic is I learned the probably one of the three most important lessons I've ever learned in life. There's a little guy his name's dr boylston still remember his name, right? Uh, let me tell you a funny story about him. So back back then he would use, they would use chalk, right, right, and then and then he would, he would erase the chalkboard and everything and he would always have chalk on his hands and he was constantly trying to pull up his his pants, right, so he'd always be doing like, like this, not to get chalk on himself. But that's one of the things I remember. But the most important, one of the three most important lessons I've ever learned, and it will stick with me until the day I die, is he said unless you can explain it to an eight-year-old to where they understand, then you don't understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know what it takes to explain something really complicated to an eight-year-old patience yeah yeah, that's the hardest thing as a coach, in my opinion. Like I got somebody said this to me the other day they and I don't disagree with you at all, but there's also subject matter that's not appropriate for an eight-year-old yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, that that. That absolutely does make sense.
Speaker 1:But breaking it down to for sure, somebody, the other day they were like hey, um, you know, like they came in for a golf lesson and and they were a nice person, but they were a local person, right, they had just like needed a golf lesson locally, had looked on google, had found me and like come in so they didn't really know what I do so they thought they were going to get a quote, unquote golf lesson, right, and then they wind up getting a meat lesson, which is, you know, hey, like, let's get your body moving a little better, and like that way the club is easier to kind of put into a position.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, right, so like they were kind of like a little bit upset with that Right. And they were like, hey, man, upset with that right. And they were like, hey, man, like I just like want to play better by league this week. And I'm like, cool, well, if you do this, you will play better by league this week. He's like, yeah, but I don't know what to do with the club. And I was like, well, how about we tuck our pelvis? Because that's going to do way more good than focusing on where the club is, because it doesn't matter if your pelvis isn't tucked.
Speaker 1:So anyway, long story short, he like says kind of more or less the same thing you just said to me, and he's like I don't know, man, like I just need it way simpler, like I need it like three-year-old level.
Speaker 1:And I looked at him and I said can you explain to a three-year-old why the sky is blue? And he looked at me and he's like I don't get it, and I said look, I can explain to a three-year-old why the sky is blue and I can describe vapors and gases and UV rays and atmosphere, and I can do that. It takes a lot of patience. I'm going to get down on my knees and I'm going to hold their hand and I'm going to walk them through it and I'm going to let them ask me a million freaking questions because they don't know what any of that means, and it's going to take us about an hour, but I can do it. What, what any of that means? And it's going to take us about an hour, but I can do it. What I'm doing for you is, instead of treating you like a three-year-old, I'm giving you the one thing you got to do and that way you can just focus on the one thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree with that, you know, and it's it's like people they they're not used to. In my opinion, I think people are used to being sold a bill of goods that just simply isn't going to work. You know, I think so many people because of and I'm not trying to throw YouTube or social media under the bus, because I think it's a great tool if we use it correctly but so many people are using those tools to like sell the quick fix and the consumer, the golfer, is just convinced that they're like one swing tip away from being Scotty Scheffler and it's just not the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for a fellow that I had a lot of respect for when I heard him say do this one swing tip that I have, pay for this one swing tip that I have, and you'll never hit a bad shot again. Well, I just saw Scotty Scheffler hit a bad shot the other day, every day, every single round. So how can you say something like that?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean I just the thing that I've really been trying to figure this out, because every guy or girl that I talk to that's in the business. You know there's always like you get to the point in the conversation where there's like a little bit of frustration that shows through. And I don't honestly think that the coaches and the PTs and the practitioners are upset with their clients. I just think that they're upset at the industry that they work in. Because, honestly, you know, what I try to offer people is red pill, blue pill, and you know, if you don't understand the matrix reference, essentially Neil Neo could pick to know the truth and to wake up from the matrix. Or he could take the blue pill and go back to sleep and wake up in the matrix and just stay in the matrix forever.
Speaker 1:And I understand that the industry is constantly selling a golf or something.
Speaker 1:It is an industry which means there are businesses in it and they exist to sell and make money and like that's okay as long as people understand that at face value.
Speaker 1:But I don't think a lot of the stewards of the game right now, because they're all businesses, I don't think anybody's taking a long-term approach to the game and looking at it from a how do we actually grow this and make it better for the next generation? We're just trying to keep it afloat for the next generation most of the time, and that's definitely what we were doing before the COVID boom happened. We were like golf was on life support prior to COVID. So it's just I don't understand why there's people like you in the world and it's like I've watched what you do. I've watched people have like every time somebody gets around you, they have a light bulb moment and like that's the opportunity for somebody to get better, because most people, like physically, don't swing the golf club that poorly. They just have really, really bad concepts that force them to try to do things that they would otherwise never try to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Rotex I want to get into it.
Speaker 2:You know, have you ever figured out what Rotex means? I'll give you a clue it means rotational exercise.
Speaker 1:I was going to say rotary exercise, but I was like that's way too simple. It felt like a trap question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah go ahead, yeah, so, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I'm just I know the story. You probably should share like the quick version of the story, like what led to the Rotex, because not everybody knows what I know. But I think that that obviously is a good point to kind of start with. But from there I would kind of like you maybe to just kind of roll on into you know what are. Like as objectively as you can and you're a fairly objective guy, but like as objectively as you can kind of maybe talk a little bit about what's it like to like wake up in the morning as the owner of a product and then just like see social media flooded with it and then see the success stories that you guys are obviously having, obviously with Eddie just having all this success at the world long drive championship, um, I mean, it's just talk a little bit not only about what led to it, but that's the beginning, obviously. But then take us current day and kind of what you're seeing in the results look like and the impact that you're having.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what led to it was my own body and 22 years as the Navy SEAL, and really I would have stayed for 30 or 35 years. I was having a lot of fun, but to this day, and I immediately got out of SEAL team at 22 years because of an issue that I had low back pain and sciatica. It's the worst case that I've seen to this day and I've seen thousands, thousands of people. So it was at one point, nearly suicidal. It was 24 hour a day. There was no relief for it. There was no drug that I could take. I couldn't sleep at all for weeks at a time. So what? By the way, I'll just mention my injuries really quickly. We don't have enough time on this podcast to mention them all, but I could show you you broke everybody. Yeah, I could show x-rays of people like have three major concussions a broken neck, broken back severely, contused femur, I thought the Seals just played beach volleyball all the time Like how do you get all those injuries?
Speaker 2:And, by the way and by the way, I was champion beach volleyball player in Virginia Beach when you're at the Open. So anyhow, that goes back a ways. So anyhow, I've got all these injuries in my body right Cumulative effect. And then they all came crashing down to me when I was working at a desk job in the Pentagon in 1991. So I got out, went to chiropractic school to learn my own body and I learned what the books teach us right.
Speaker 2:But when I got into practice, what was my learning moment was watching people that would come in with excruciating back pain. I'm in with excruciating back pain. I'm talking about like they would ride in the back of an SUV laying down with their wife's driving a man or other way around. They would walk in with help. And so I have one of these tables where you could stand up backwards and it would lower the patient down to a parallel position to the ground, to a parallel position to the ground. And I noticed that these people either had one leg rotated outward or both of them. Every single case, 100% of the cases, with people with severe low back pain where they were locked up, they couldn't move, their hips were rotated out, couldn't move, their hips were rotated out. So same guy, Dr Boylston, taught me another important lesson, right is that the gluteus medius, which is an internal and external, but mostly internal. He taught us that it was the only pure internal rotator of the hip and that came back to me when I had my own issue of severe low back pain and I started thinking about that.
Speaker 2:And then at four o'clock in the morning, Lafayette, Louisiana, four o'clock in the morning, I woke up like this and it had come to me and I rushed to my clinic and I started messing around with a Frisbee and I tied a big Frisbee and I tied a band to the wall and I started working in it and luckily nobody was in the office because they started screaming like a maniac. I've got it. I have the answer to what do? My own issue. And so everything evolved from there I start, luckily. Have you, michael, you ever written a? Have you ever read a book called the talent code?
Speaker 1:I think I've read parts of it. I don't think I've read the whole book, though yeah.
Speaker 2:So just to explain to the to the listeners talent code is talking about. There are pockets in the world, for example, no reason in the world besides that they learn to run barefoot. I think that's huge, but no reason in the world why Jamaica should have dominated the world for 16 years in sprinting. No reason in the world except for coaching, except for coaching. Same thing with, like Novak Djokovic, right and where he is from. There's pockets of people in coaching that just dominate their sport for a long, long time.
Speaker 1:Australia is a great example of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and swimming too, right. So, anyhow, I was living in an area and still to this day they're my best friends. I found a stainless steel manufacturer who was one of my patients, and I found the plastic manufacturer, who was his best friend, that he played college baseball with, and those are the people that I consulted with to build the machines that we built. The first one was like what we call the white elephant. It is unbelievable for hospitals and PT clinics. It's got big handlebars. Have you ever seen the first one that we have?
Speaker 2:I don't think I've seen a Gen 1, no, it's like 85 pounds has one disc in the middle slanted. You can hold on to the handrails. Really really good for handicapped people and people that have severe low back pain, but not good for the market.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's a polite question. It might not be. Just tell me, how many units do you think you've put out into the world?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, Over 10,000. That's amazing. That really is amazing With the mom and pop organization that we have and we don't do we've never done any traditional advertising, just basically word of mouth and social media.
Speaker 1:Joe, I can't. I mean, I travel a good amount to a lot of facilities and know that and I honestly can't remember walking into a facility and not seeing Rotex there, like I. Just because most of the places I go obviously I have like a DPT or some kind of physio component to the business as well and it's like I just can't, you know, think of a place that I've been at that doesn't have the Rotex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, and like somebody sent me a video not too long ago at Michigan National Champions, right, talking through the gym and then just going up the stairs, and he never mentioned it. But going up to the stairs to their top room, there are like eight sets of Rotex along the wall wall. So, anyhow, I I've been so fortunate to meet and I don't want to call them social media influencers, I want to talk, tell you like real influencers, like I worked. I worked with the New Orleans Saints and they had those big monstrosity machines and so when other teams would go play the Saints, they would use their weight room and they'd go what are these things right? They'd see somebody named Drew Brees or Colston or Sproles or somebody like that using them. What is this thing right? And so then that team would order them and so then it goes, runs rampant. Same thing with major league baseball, same thing with with uh, nba, um. So people see them that way.
Speaker 2:But getting on to golf, right real quick before we get on to golf.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, because I haven't told you this. I was hanging on to it and I'm not allowed to take photos when I'm there, because I would have already sent you the photo. I now have a really good other use that maybe you are unaware of for the Rotex.
Speaker 2:Okay, i'll….
Speaker 1:NFL lineman Okay, oh yeah yeah, nfl linemen launching off those yeah, oh, really how about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, we might have to go back and uh and start making the stainless steel models again.
Speaker 1:We might have to but like I'll tell you what, joe, like what you turn me on to, and let's, we'll finish up with rotex here in just a second with golf, but but like what you turned me onto with the spiral lines, I'm, I'm convinced man, like that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know we already said like talking about one thing and thinking that's the whole thing is like, but the spiral line really isn't one thing, it's a whole lot of things. It's just a way to kind of look at it as one unit or one structure, right. So I think, like what you showed me with that and then getting people to understand, like how the legs like everybody thinks their legs bend and push, and like we actually want to twist our legs and push, so it's just like pretty crazy. So anyway, let's pick it back up with the Rotex and the golf. But I did want to tell you NFL linemen are standing on those things and launching into other human beings off of those things. So the durability on those things is crazy good, because we thought we'd break them for sure, but luckily they've held together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as long as we remember to place the arch of the foot right in the middle rather than on the side or whatever.
Speaker 1:And by the way, just for the record, if anybody is listening to this and getting ideas, they are not wearing their spikes when we're doing this. They are wearing trainers? They're not wearing their actual like cleats.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and really and truly, if we were to take it to the basic model and it's not practical to do do this, but I would be having a bare foot yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah, so, um, anyway, getting getting back to how it evolved in golf, right it? It never was invented for golf. Never was invented for golf. It was meant it was invented for the human body, uh, but it's taken on a life of its own in golf. And it's so easy for me to do social media because I all I got to do. Like, last night we posted a uh, a video of in korea they had this huge stage and they had that was. I saw that this morning when I woke up. I'm glad you brought that dude. That was so cool. I saw that.
Speaker 1:This morning when I woke up. I'm glad you brought that Dude. That was so cool yeah. If you don't follow Dr Joe. It's at Rotex Motion and I hope, if you're listening to this, just take a quick moment and look him up on Instagram, Give him a follow real quick at Rotex Motion. But, more importantly, I want you to see this post because what he's talking about I mean, there's what like maybe 50 people on that stage show- yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's amazing. Yeah, it is amazing. Yeah, we if, if we get a chance, we could talk a little bit about how that all came about. Yeah, but go with it, but go with it.
Speaker 2:Go with it, yeah, so. So I get a call from this guy and it's at J W L, seven to six, and his name is John Woo Lee, and I will tell you something about John Woo Woo Lee. He was, he's, 100% Korean, but his dad died when he was young and his mom was 100% Korean too, but he grew up in Guam and he speaks as good, or better, english than we do. So, anyhow, he said I'd like to learn about Rotex. I said, okay, I got a master course. You take the course. Take the master course and then you'll know everything.
Speaker 2:You know, I did not know what I was getting myself into. First of all, it's 14 hours difference. He was asking me questions like you would not believe, for 10 questions a day for like six months, and so we developed this relationship. I ended up going over to South Korea and spending 11 days over there giving six seminars and everything, and we found a distributor over there that they purchased large amounts of machines at a time, and then now JW that's his nickname, by the way. Interesting fact If you do business with the United States, you have to have an English nickname. It's by law. You have to have an English. Yeah, it can't be Jong, really, you have to have an English. Yeah, it can't be Chong, right, you have to, so anyhow.
Speaker 1:I always wondered why that is that way, and now I know. Ok, thank you. Now I look at this. I learned something new today.
Speaker 2:Ok, cool, by law, right, when we were developing our contract with him. So, so, anyhow, he has given in the 90s seminars, weekend seminars, full weekend seminars in the three years we've been associated to five people. That's the maximum he will take, right? But he has 40 facilities that are certified in Rotex now, facilities that are certified in Rotex now. And the thing about South Korea is that you can drive from any part of that country to any other part in five hours, right? So if somebody's given a seminar, they are crazy for knowledge over there about golf, crazy for it, and people do not. I'm going. You know he doesn't only represent Rotex, he's an information broker. He does everything, right. So, anyhow, I said, how can you have a seminar like every weekend and have it filled to capacity on putting on, you know, full swing or whatever, because it just happens that way. So, anyhow, enough, enough about Korea.
Speaker 1:That's crazy, I mean, and it's, it's, it's just so interesting to me. Like you know, I've been fortunate and been outside the United States and played golf outside the United States and it's just, golf is so much is viewed so much differently within the United States. And I'm not saying it's not wrong, like if you pay your greens fees and you can keep up with the group in front of you, by all means, man, you're more than welcome and you should be there, like I don't have any problem with that. I don't care what your skill level is, I don't care what your socioeconomic level is, I don't care about any of that stuff. If you can keep up with the group in front of you, play golf, I have no problem with that.
Speaker 1:However, there is kind of been a big influx, in my opinion, of people who seem to be confused between what golf is and tailgating and they seem to be wanting to show up to the golf course and tailgate and it's. It's really. It's becoming less about the skill and more about the experience and my whole thing is is like when I look at golf outside of the United States, like when I sit down and and after a round of golf with guys over in the UK, for example, like dude they're talking about like, oh man, you know this shot here. I got to work on that a little bit more because I don't quite have it just yet and and I got to, I got to get with my physio because I got a little bit of pain here in my and it's like they're all in right, like they understand that golf is this thing, that it's not just show up and it works, like you got to work at it a little bit and they take a little better and I get it.
Speaker 1:And Europe, like working out, is way more kind of a lifestyle that you never choose. It's just kind of baked into the culture. However, it's just. I don't understand why every golfer looks at every new driver they buy over 10 years and is convinced that the company sold them a bad bill of goods, when in reality they look in the mirror every day and over the same 10 years you know they haven't done anything to help their body, they haven't done anything to increase their speed or their mobility and it's like they they can't seem to understand why they're not hitting the ball as far as they used to. It's just mind mind boggling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. Before I continue, I'll bring up one of my favorite points. I think it was Proteus that came out and said that it's been proven that the older that you get, the more you're going to drop off in distance this much every year. I'm waiting. You're pretty athletic. I'm waiting.
Speaker 1:And you're pretty athletic, joe, I just listen.
Speaker 2:Two days ago, I was watching a podcast of Justin James, who's a really good friend of mine, and Justin is a great guy, great guy, and Mike Malaska right, and I was going yeah, I've worked with Justin for a long time. I was actually out working with Mike Malaska and I'm not going to learn anything, I'm just going to listen to this thing. I learned something that I immediately gained 20 yards from. That's why I'm interested in coming to see you soon, right, because I immediately gained 20 yards from it and, by the way, I was I was a day older when I when I tried it immediately.
Speaker 1:It was crazy. I get so frustrated because, you know, and this is what I see a lot right, I see way more normal people than I see tour players, like. Let's be honest about that first off, right, I'm not talking specifically about world-class athletes and I'm now not talking about people who are playing college golf or young people. I'm talking about the core listeners to this podcast who look a lot more like me and you than they do like they're 18. So if we're talking about that person, what I tend to see is that that person has a very busy life. They have a career, they have a family, they have responsibilities. Like golf is something that they do. It isn't who they are, it's just something that they probably did prior to all those other things and they're kind of hanging on for dear life while the kids grow up and trying to still play a little bit of golf and they like want to play a little better because it's a little sideways, because they don't have much time to practice and play. So I see that guy routinely and the reason I'm saying guys because it mostly is a guy. I mean I do teach women as well, but it's mostly guys that I'm talking about here. That are, you know, from anywhere from 30 to, you know, 80 years old. So when we're talking about that person and I have them hit some golf shots and then I put it on the force plates and I put it on 3D and I take some video, and I do all that stuff when I ask them some questions to start with, because I have no idea what we're trying to fix until they tell me what the problem is.
Speaker 1:Now, granted, I can figure out what some problems are, but I need to know what they need to change to actually feel better about their golf game. So, like, when I'm asking them questions and talking to them generally, like, I'll just hand them my hand and whatever I recorded with, like normally, the mouse or whatever, and I'll go okay, here, take, take this mouse and go through your golf swing for me, tell me what you like and tell me what you don't like. Right Like. And they all hate it. Everybody hates their golf swing Like. Nobody likes their golf swing, right Like.
Speaker 1:I've learned that. And the other thing I've learned is that they hate it because they have some idea of what the golf club should look like at the top of the swing or at some certain position in the golf swing and because they don't achieve that, they think that they, like, don't move right. They think that they're messed up. They think that they've got all these problems and maybe they've done some assessments and the assessments say they're weak in these certain areas and they're convinced that those two things are related, whatever the case may be, but my problem with it is this If we look at the PGA Tour and that's how most people kind of look at golf, right, like we watch golf on TV but if you look at golf on the PGA Tour, joe, you're going to see probably as many different golf swings as you see players in the field that week.
Speaker 2:Like a fingerprint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and they talk about that all the time So-and-so swing looks like this and so-and-so swings looks like that and like I get that right. But if we looked at it from more of a kinesiology standpoint or viewpoint, what we would find is that, you know, most good players that are on that level are probably doing more similar than they are different. If we actually look at how the joints and the joint segments are moving and we look at how much they're rotating within their range of motion, they're basically doing all the same things, just to lesser or more degrees, based off their ranges of motion and based off the length of those joint segments different rhythm and different uh uh release sequence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure, but more or less like they're kind of doing what they do, right, yeah, and it's like I just want to help the golfers understand like the normal we're going back to normal golfers. I just want to help like the normal golfers understand that. Hey, hey, how about this? How about, instead of trying to get the club around you and shallow and up, which really screws up your right shoulder and gets it externally rotated, how about we focus on getting your right shoulders to stay internally rotated a little bit more in the backswing and then let's see what position that creates, because that position actually works for you, instead of trying to get to this position that you're never going to be able to get to because of your ranges of motion and other things that I mentioned. And, more importantly, if you get to that position, what are you going to do from there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:If you have an externally rotated shoulder on the way back, it's going to be really hard to re kind of or I'm sorry, it's gonna be really hard to transition that back into a forward motion without sending it across the plane, If you believe in planes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah and that. Well, I won't even, I won't even talk about planes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hate that word, but it's just the word people call them no, but yeah, whatever you call it, it's the same thing Right. What we agree upon right is there are seven or eight if you count. One particular thing learning styles right, and I've heard in your industry forever feel is not real, but when you get on the golf course, that's all you got, all you got Right. So, anyhow, with with Rotex and I think why it took a life of its own within golf is because the instructor or the player can actually duplicate or communicate through. If you do this right here, you will have the exact same feel that I want you to have. It's so simple, so simple. You know, and you and I know what the cuboid bone is. We won't talk much about that, but there's a, there's a key bone in the foot. It has six sides T-bone in the foot.
Speaker 1:It has six sides. It's not the heel. By the way, if anybody's listening, the cuboid is not a fancy word for the heel.
Speaker 2:I promise you it's not the heel, it's not the calcaneus. Yeah, so it has six sides, 12 edges and eight vortices, and for people unfamiliar with what vortices means points of rotation, it is a magic bone in the foot right. We're not going to be able to explain that to an eight-year-old, simply right, or a 12-year-old or a 75-year-old right. So what we need to do is we need to tell them here it is, touch it Right. Right, take your shoe off. I'm going to touch it Because listen, we mentioned Larry Hamilton before, right, we had given two days of seminars.
Speaker 2:Eddie and I went over to his place and went over to Wayne State and had a seminar, and then I talked to him later and he was showing me where it was Nowhere close, right. So we have to touch it, show them where it is Right, get them on Rotex and have them find that feel on Rotex. You can't miss it. You cannot miss it on Rotex. Right, because you cannot miss it. Right because you cannot miss it. That's one of my favorite things about rotix is that you can put people in positions like when you're standing on two rotix facing the wall with a hand tail and you turn, you turn. You can't get in the wrong position, you cannot get into the wrong position. That that's one of the the neat things about. But you can teach people the feels that you want them to feel right.
Speaker 2:And then there's an, there's an aha moment across, you know, across communication lines.
Speaker 1:I'm going to forget that we're on a podcast for a minute. I'm just going to do what we normally do when we're on the phone together, kind of like this, which is this basically just feels like what we normally do anyway. But you know, I really strongly believe that what you hear in your head, that voice, and what we think is communicating with our body on our behalf, and that kind of active signal that we're using, that's our, I truly believe, from what I understand, that's our interface for our nervous system, and it's not a perfect interface and, as a matter of fact, it's about like windows 95. It's a little slow and a little erratic and sometimes doesn't work nearly as good as we want it to. So, with that being said, I'm going to throw something at you. I don't really like. Every golfer that I've ever met that's taken a golf lesson for me really wants to get better, right, that's the reason they come to see you.
Speaker 1:That's the only reason they come. It's not because of my good looks, it's not because of my charming personality, it's because they want to get better at golf. Okay, so the thing is is like they typically know what it is. That is the problem. They are maybe can't explain it very well, maybe can't demonstrate it very well, but they can kind of more or less beat around the bush with you a good amount about what they think their problem is right. So the thing is is like they're kind of aware of it and they've obviously put some time into this and some resources into this. So why isn't that thing changing? Why isn't that thing going away? And the reason, in my opinion, is because the thing that people typically hate the most about their golf swing, that look or that position or whatever you want to call it it tends to be their athleticism showing off, Because if they didn't do that thing, they would probably miss the golf ball because their body's in such a bad position, which is why they're doing weird things.
Speaker 1:But more importantly and this is the thing I kind of want to throw at you I kind of am teaching two people at the same time. When I coach and I truly believe this and I'm very actively aware of this the person that I'm dealing with, the personality that I'm dealing with, wants to be in agreement and wants to get better. However, there's this really kind of pain in the ass, voice in the back of their head that's like I'm not doing that. I know how to do this already and when the jukebox says play golf swing, I pull album golf swing and I play golf swing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that person, michael. I know that person that they want your help, but then they tell you this is what I do, this is what works for me.
Speaker 1:It ain't working.
Speaker 2:It ain't working. Shut up and listen. So here's what I think. This is what worked for me. It doesn't work. Shut up and listen.
Speaker 1:So here's what I think. I don't think it's them actively trying to refute me, because that would not make any sense.
Speaker 1:Like why would you pay money and like go somewhere and then not listen to the guy? Like that doesn't make any sense. So here's what I think. I think that what I've got to do is I've got to keep the active voice in your head, your personality. I have to keep that guy entertained a little bit. And then what I have to do is I have to find a way to, while I'm entertaining and look over here, I have to have a heart to heart with the nervous system and I don't know what the nervous system knows, because the nervous system only knows what it felt.
Speaker 1:It has no like conceptual understanding of anything. It only knows what it's been taught and trained to do, and it has been taught and trained to do this thing. We want to change a whole heck of a lot more than we're going to talk about this new thing.
Speaker 2:By the way, I just want to bring out something that you just said that people need to know. You don't change anything. What you do is you create a new program. There is no getting rid of the old program. It's in there to stay. Try to teach somebody how to not ride a bicycle. It's impossible, right? There is nothing you can do to change or delete a program. You have to build an entirely new program, correct, and you have to practice it enough to where it becomes the preferred program. But those old programs, they're there forever.
Speaker 1:So here's the magic right. And here we go back to Rotex. So I need to like, pull a magician trick over here and get you to look at this hand while I use my right hand over here if you're not watching to use the Rotex device, because you're exactly correct, I can create a feeling and, more importantly, I cannot describe somebody's feelings to them because I don't feel them the same way. However, to your point, I can put somebody on the Rotex, I can get them set up on it properly and I can put them into a position, not from a looks perspective, but from a kinesiology kind of point of view perspective. I can get them into this position. And now they're like whoa, I've never done that in my life.
Speaker 1:And I go, I know, and their nervous system and the background is like what's this? Well, wait a minute, I'm not hurt, wait a minute, I'm loaded. Wait a minute, that stretch feels kind of good. Wait a minute Like, oh, the cobwebs are kind of shaken out a little bit. And now it's like we have at least played that new program at least once for the nervous system and now it at least understands that there is more range of motion without causing injury to the system and like now, all of a sudden, you can have these breakthroughs, because people are always going to kind of creep up on it. Creep up on it because they don't know if it's safe. But we can put them into these full ranges of motion. And now, all of a sudden, like the nervous system's like going nuts, like whoa, this is wild, but that's kind of what you need if you're going to elicit at least the opportunity for a change right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you explain that, Michael. I just want to say you explain that as well as anybody that I've ever heard. That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's what you have to do. And I always tell people like I have a no alcohol policy on the day of a lesson. I don't care who you are, I don't care like what you do, I don't care if you're 55 years old. Look, if you're coming for a golf lesson with me and you want to get value for your money, I'm going to give you the best information I can possibly give you. I'm going to give you what I truly believe to be the thing that's going to help you. But at the end of the day, my lesson, my information, doesn't set in until you're at home, asleep in bed and REM cycle, because that's when that nervous system gets to come out and kind of rebuild the roads.
Speaker 1:And I always tell people my job is to create new land. Like my job is to create new land, I'm trying to go into the swamp and fill it full of sand and dry it up and now I can build a new community. Like this is what I'm trying to do as a golf coach. But the thing is is like I'm going to give you the plans in the meeting for the community, but you've got to let the utility company know that you're getting ready to do this so they can put the utilities in, so that your nice new house has plumbing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and so everybody understands completely what you just said a no alcohol policy the complete day of the lesson. Because if you drink alcohol, then it takes five hours before you actually get sleep. Once you think you're asleep, your body does not sleep that's been proven over and over again until your body completely gets rid of the alcohol and then you will start to sleep. So that would that would make a lot of sense. No alcohol the entire day of the lesson, uh, even when they get home or whatever. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It just destroys sleep, you know. And like it's a hard thing, right? Like you know, alcohol is very common in our society. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with moderate drinking and things like that, like I don't have a beef against alcohol, but like people don't realize how much that affects their sleep. And then the other thing too is is like people don't understand that their sleep affects every other function of their life.
Speaker 1:So for us, you know, we feel very strongly and I know you agree, but me and Aram are trainer at smash factor performance that we have in house here at measured golf.
Speaker 1:Uh, but Aram and I talk all the time about this and it's like you know, if you're serious, like if you're going to be serious, you're not going to fight us on the whoop, and like we always kind of know who we're dealing with based off that alone.
Speaker 1:Because like if you're going to fight us on the whoop, then you're not going to do the breathing work we're going to ask you to do with the NeuroPeak Pro, and like those two things alone are what make us successful at what we do.
Speaker 1:Because, honestly, man, just getting like young people to show up like well-rested, they're going to perform great. Like young people are very capable of performing at high levels. It's just young people typically are going a million miles an hour and super scattered and they can't focus long enough to do that great thing. So, getting people to get some sleep, let their REM cycle kick in, let some restorative work kind of happen on the nervous system I think that's always going to be in their best case scenario. And then the other thing that I think is probably our biggest weapon and I'm not hiding it so if you're listening is the NeuroPeak Pro and getting people to learn how important breathing is Because I know that the SEALs really talk a lot about that breathing stuff because it really does control the speed at which the operating system can operate.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm going to give you a little story about breathing, since you mentioned breathing. So, uh, I'm not going to take any credit for eddie's success at all, although in 2022, um and I was standing right there at the world championships when he won his second uh, senior world long drive championship, right, I think it was his second set. He hit a ball right in the middle of the grid and he turned around, looked at me and I said, yeah, that that was it right, um, and so, anyhow, as he's walking off the grid back to go practice some more, getting ready for his next set, they say and eddie, eddie fernandez, no points out of bounds. And he went nuts, he went absolutely, absolutely ballistic, right, and he was continuing to do that. You know, he, doc, I can't, I can't understand it. You know that they didn't find that ball right. So, anyhow, I, I, he was like that for like another 15 minutes and I said Eddie, do you want to win this championship or you just want to bitch about them not finding your ball Right? I said it's gone. I said I'm going to teach you something right now that I want you to do, and I'm going to teach you how to, how to breathe. And, by the way, there's a lot of of information, even by a couple of experts that I have a lot of respect for, and they're teaching it the wrong way. And I'll tell you the difference, okay, anyhow, he won that championship. He won seven more times the next year until he hurt his, had to have a surgery on a hip flexor, and then he just won, uh, the uh, war long drive championship. And then he just won the Warlong Drive Championship this year. And he's done that breathing technique every single event, right?
Speaker 2:So here's what's being taught, okay, in SEAL Team we call it double tap, and what double tap means is when you're firing a bullet, you won't go bap, you go bap, like that, right. Firing a bullet, you won't go, you go, like that, right. So double tap means you'll breathe in all your breath at once and then you'll breathe in a little like you can't breathe in anymore, and then you go a little bit more and then you'll slowly breathe it out. Right? What's being taught? That's not right.
Speaker 2:Okay, is you do it through your nose, right? You do it through your nose, right? You do it through your nose, except for you do it with your diaphragm. It comes through your nose. If you do it with your nose, watch what happens to my shoulders. They come up. There's muscles in your neck called the scalene muscle that makes that tight, right.
Speaker 2:What you do is you let it come in through your nose, but you breathe with your diaphragm like this, and then, a little bit more, breathe it all out to the count of eight. What that does is two things. The first one breathing with your nose it actually activates your sympathetic nervous system, making you more nervous and more tight. The second one breathing from your diaphragm it activates your phrenic nerve, making you more relaxed. And then also you can get in more air, breathe out more carbon dioxide, because carbon dioxide is what makes you panic, right. So if you're in a competition, you don't want to panic. So people learn how to do that right will be able to calm themselves in two ways their parasympathetic, their relaxation system of the nervous system, and also rid themselves as much carbon dioxide as possible.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's spot on and honestly, you're talking about why I like the NeuroPeak Pro so much, because it has a little device that sits right here on your diaphragm, right, yeah, so it's teaching people how to use the diet.
Speaker 1:They're terrible at it because they all. Here's what I see. Like we have our young people come in and when we, when we introduce them to the belt, we do the first session with them and kind of teach them some posture and things like that while they're breathing. But the first thing that everybody does, when I tell them to breathe in, they go, yeah, exactly, and they all think that they have to pull the air in and they contract and then we don't have any room to let the air expand. But what people need to realize is that your body is a pressurized system, right, so it's warm air inside of us, then more warm air inside of us and outside of us because of our body temperature, so that creates a pressure system.
Speaker 1:So I finally got over the fear of I'm gonna suffocate. You know how you wake up sometimes and like I've got dogs in my house, so like I might be a little snotty when I wake up because of some allergies or whatever, but like you're panicking because you think you can't breathe because there's blockage in the nasal passages. But if you just relax, the air still finds a way, unless you have a% blockage right. So I think that people just really that fear of not having enough air right, they're just constantly like kind of panicking and it's like just amazing. But to your point, like you know, getting people from 18 to 22 breaths a minute to you know that six to eight range, we, there's hard science, there's hard research. All of that says that that puts you on the doorstep to flow or Zen or in the zone or whatever you want to call it. We know that that's kind of where the brain likes to be for optimal performance.
Speaker 1:But like teaching people that skill and teaching people like how to actually regulate their body is like so important and just I don't, I don't hear any of this. Like I know that people do this stuff because when I go out and I work on tour and whatnot, I hear of all these things. But then when I finally get down to the competitive ranks, whether it be college or junior, it's like everything's X's and O's with the golf swing. That's how we're going to get better, that's how we're going to get better. We got to get X's and O's, X's and O's and it's like, well, dude, like what kind of state is this person even in when they're like trying to compete? Like have we even asked that question?
Speaker 2:yet yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, uh, you know my exercise, the rib cage openers. Yeah, one one thing that's not not paid enough attention to is is rib cage itself. So you got three layers of, like, uh, ribs another word for rib is costal, right? Um, so you have three layers one inside, one in between the ribs and one over, called intercostal right, inter ribs, and, unless those are working correctly, to open and close like a new accordion, right. Then there's something above in everything, above your neck, your upper, back, your arms and everything, or something below which includes everything your, your low back, your, uh, your hips, your, uh, everything in your, in your body. Something's going to have to compensate for that lack of movement, right? So what I've been doing lately I haven't posted, I'm going to post this real soon is that rib cage opener coupled with the breathing technique we were just talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so does that all the time he uses? He uses, like breath work with the Rotex all the time. I was going to mention that. You know, that's that's really. That's kind of the amazing thing, so kind of going back to where this started with the fields. Right, you know, how do we get the nervous system to learn the best? Well, we got to get the nervous system in a place of being calm, to where it's willing to accept new information and not be thinking that there's a threat in the environment, right? So, by getting people into the Rotex, like I. You know I love the handheld unit paired with the floor unit. I think that's a great combination.
Speaker 1:But getting people right into these positions, like we talked about, very, very awesome, great stuff.
Speaker 1:The nervous system can learn. But from there if you're going to go with the advanced technique we'll call it you can not only get into that position, but then you could get into that position and take some deep breaths and now, all of a sudden, we're releasing that carbon monoxide like you were talking about, dioxide, carbon dioxide like you were talking about, and the carbon dioxide, thank you and we can release that from our system, which is going to get us to calm down and feel less sense of a threat. And, like now, if you hold that position and do some deep breathing in that position, you're really reaffirming to the nervous system that that position is okay for you, like you're allowed to move there, and you really do kind of haveming to the nervous system that that position is okay for you, like you're allowed to move there and you really do kind of have to teach the nervous system these new ranges of motion. If somebody hasn't used that muscle or hasn't went to that range in several years or decades.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and really it should be daily, right. Yeah, so we've been talking basically feels and performance so far. I just want to talk really briefly on what you do every single day for activation and activation is a fancy people like to call it warmup, not really warmup. You're not actually really elevating the temperature in your body that much. You will a little bit, but not that much, right? So what we need to do on a daily basis, I call it enough is enough. I learned this from my guru out in California, jacob Blanowski smartest person I've ever met in my life right, my dad was it until I met him. So, anyhow, enough is enough. What are you going to do every single day of your life so you can feel better, move better, sleep better? All that stuff, right, I have I have my little. Enough is enough. Exercise, uh, thing right. But every single day, thing right. But every single day.
Speaker 2:We need to stress every joint in all six directions. Every joint in the body does this to some degree Flexion, extension, abduction, adduction, internal rotation, external rotation, like, for example, just for example and I'm going to go back and say every joint in the body does that, but just, for example, taking the shoulder, shoulder doesn't know those words. That's all. Rotation for the shoulder. It's called circumduction, right? Okay, so every single day, we have to stress every single joint in our body in all six directions. We have to stress every single joint in our body in all six directions. We have to stress every single muscle in the body that moves those joints. We have to stress every single fascial line, and there's basically six major fascial lines in the body that move the muscles. And, by the way, don't let me forget about, there's no such thing as stretching, right okay, I was waiting for you to say it.
Speaker 2:I thought you were already going to say it you're the first one that ever said it, but that I that I heard. Okay, and then, and then the last thing in in within that process, stressing the entire nervous system and learning those movements as you're stressing.
Speaker 1:So let me call off. Do we want to stretch a muscle Joe or do we want to contract a muscle Joe?
Speaker 2:Well, you're going to contract it in different ways. You're either going to shorten it or you're going to lengthen it or you're going to stress it while it's in an immobile position, like an isometric contraction, right, but getting. But getting down to the nitty-gritty, right, if we take a muscle fiber, and if I would have thought about it, I would have a rubber band right. But you can imagine anybody can imagine taking a rubber band and like that, and you can spend all day long.
Speaker 1:By the way, he's stretching the rubber band out yeah, I used to do that.
Speaker 2:I used to do that all the time in my seminars. I'm going to get back to it. I used to throw and I used to teach a five hour course to doctoral students on biomechanics, spinal biomechanics, and I would throw one of them a rubber pan and one of them a plastic pen, like you know, like a cheap big plastic pen, right, and I said I want you to stretch that for this three hours, right, and we're going to measure it first, and then, at the end of the of the of the class, we're going to measure it again, right? Everybody already knew the answer, but I said I want you to do it right, doesn't change, goes right back to its original form. Exactly the same thing happens with the muscle, right, plastic pen is the same quality as as Plastic pen is the same quality as fascia, okay, and fascia covers every muscle fiber, every fascicle, like every group of muscles, and it covers the entire body. I know that you have some people that have never we have some people listening never been hunting, never skinned an animal, like a squirrel or a deer or whatever. But you have this huge white membrane like a chicken, right, huge white membrane all the way around it. That's the fascial covering of the muscle right, the person that has the pen. That stays permanent. That pen is never going back to its original position. Once they've been doing this over and over and over again for three hours, I will never get that back to its original position. So we're not actually stretching muscles. We're not actually we might be stretching them. We're not changing the length of them, right? Never happened, okay. What's happening is the nervous system is making a new program for the length, the relative length of muscle from one side to the other. So let's just take our quads and our hamstrings, right.
Speaker 2:I was just talking to a guy that has he reportedly six foot six, took third at the world championships open division this year, first time he ever competed, did really well. We already have a really good relationship. But he was talking about that his hamstrings are too short. I said, hmm, that sounds. You know, I'm sitting all day long. You know like sit 10, 12 hours every day. And I said are they too short or are they too long, right? And he said, well, are they too short or are they too long, right? And he said, well, they're too short. And I said, well, what if we take your hip flexors, which we know are too short because you're sitting all day long, what's the opposite of hip flexors, hip extensors, which includes the hamstrings and the glutes right? And when he got that point that you should strengthen the hamstrings rather than stretch them, here's my one of my favorite sayings a strong, healthy muscle. A strong, healthy muscle, is much more flexible than a constantly stretched muscle. I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean in every case in every case, every case.
Speaker 2:Strong, healthy muscle is much more flexible than a, than a constantly stretched muscle.
Speaker 1:Like if I, if I I kind of think of it like this right, if we were to think about a golf swing and we were to say like, hey, what's the overall feel For me? And what I like to try to help people understand is that we should have tension throughout the entire system, throughout the duration of the golf swing. We want to have tension in our arms, we want to have tensions in our legs, we want the appendages extended, and then we want to try to rotate everything in the middle. We don't want to try to move in a shearing effect, everything in the middle. We just want to let everything kind of more or less stay in place and twist about the spine, in a very simplistic kind of viewpoint, what I'm saying right now.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, if I'm elongating right a muscle, then it's going to be really hard to keep those joints where they started, and then I'm going to end up creating a lot of free movement and it's going to be a lot of slack in the system. And that's where I think golfers really tend to have a hard time with golf sometimes is that they kind of I call it blackout downswing, but most golfers, especially as the handicaps go up, they can't tell you what happens from the top of their swing down, and if you are just kind of in a blackout, then you're always going to refer to the jukebox and you're never going to make a change. So what people really have to learn how to do is how to activate these said muscles, and you're never going to make a change. So what people really have to learn how to do is how to activate these said muscles and these said muscle groups right, and then learn how to keep it activated the entire swing. That's how we have. That's the only way we're ever going to gain any control quote, unquote over the golf club.
Speaker 1:And it's just. You see, everybody you know. I was just at a pretty prestigious junior tournament, maybe a week or two ago, and like, I see all these kids on the driving range with all their stretch bands and everybody's stretching and stretching, and stretching and it actually doing exercise right, they're actually activating.
Speaker 2:whether it be the optimal activation probably not, but they're actually activating. Not any stretching going on when you're using resistance, but getting back to the part like talking about the health of the body and preventing injuries. Right, you're either going to have longevity in the sport or you're constantly going to be dealing with aches and pains, going to sleep with aches and pains, not getting proper rest because your nervous system is trying to heal a spot you know, turning over all night long in your sleep because you can't get into a comfortable position, things like that, right? So I just want to cover something, or I want to talk about something that most people, when I hear about what happens to most people in the golf swing, it's low back pain, most, mostly yeah, I agree Hip and low back.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, let me just say this and put it out there right, it's not the hips, it is. I wish if I never heard the word hips again when referring to the golf swing, I would be very pleased. It's not the hips, it's the pelvis. Yeah, it's not the shoulders, it's the pelvis, it's a shoulder girdle yeah, right, but it works in a.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work the way people think it does, in a truly opposite and equal manner. But it does work as a unit yeah, the shoulders and the and the hips, which make the pelvis. Yeah, the pelvis is the unit, right yeah?
Speaker 2:so let's you know, the hips work independently, right, they work independently, right, yeah. What the hips can work independently onto the pelvis, yeah, right. But when the pelvis makes the movement, the hips move exactly in an opposite relationship of internal and external rotation. What makes more sense, also, what makes more sense Moving the pelvis with these huge muscles called the obliques, right, and the quads and the hamstrings and all of that stuff, or with these little tiny muscles within a capsule, right? So, anyhow, let's get back to the thing, right. Low back pain Not the hips, yeah, not the hips, yeah. What?
Speaker 2:My biggest pet peeve is that teachers and coaches within the golf industry will take a concept that they've heard forever and refer to it forever, and refer to it forever, and so there's a, there's a video, and I could pull it up, like immediately, and you could too, right, is ben hogan talking about how he makes a golf swing? Whether it's what? What you agree upon, what I agree, right? And he said I don't, uh, this is is what I do. I don't start my swing with my upper body, I start with my knees and my hips. He dismissed the hips by five inches. Ben Hogan's probably the greatest ball striker ever that's lived on the planet. But he's not an anatomical expert and so everybody that's ever seen that thinks that this is the hips. It's not the hips. The hips way down here inside. You can't touch them Right. So, so, so, anyhow, that's one of the things. All right, so for low back pain you have, I'll just mention two muscles that people can take this. We've got all the exercises that help them with this. Let's take the lat and the psoas muscle.
Speaker 2:I stood in front of 650 PGA coaches and teachers 150 PGA coaches and teachers. I was given as last year at the PGA show, and I said I want everybody to close your eyes because I don't want to embarrass any of you, but I want you to point to where the lat attaches. And I say anybody, point to where it attaches. Right, it attaches right there, right there on the upper arm, right, they're like back here, here, here, right, that's pretty, pretty important for what you end up throwing something right, swinging is a subclassification of throwing. Then I'll ask somebody that should know professional, where does the psoas muscle attach? And most people in the know say, yeah, it attaches to the lumbar spine, all the segments of the lumbar spine, and then it attaches right here. Well, doesn't it attaches here? That's pretty important to know.
Speaker 2:And so if you've got these things other than neutral you know how commentators say he's hitting other than driver I'll say, not externally, internal, other than neutral.
Speaker 2:If the lat is perfectly neutral, in the proper position, and the psoas muscle at the femur is in a perfect position, in neutral position, that relieves so much stress on the low back, oh for sure. Yeah, but what happens is this this this will be turned in and this will be neutral. So one opposite you're putting pressure on something called and I don't want to get into any like deep stuff about anatomy but called the the racco lumbar fascia piece of plastic that's about that thick on most people, from front to back. It's shaped like a baseball diamond, the lat attaches to it and the psoas is within it, the glutes attach to it, and so when you start to try to stretch that plastic, it bites back and it makes everything tight within the low back region. So that's one of the things that we need to work on as golfers, as human beings. Right Is making sure that these are aligned in a neutral position, all the time that's.
Speaker 1:It's so funny you bring that up because I alluded to Aram from Smash Factor Performance earlier in our conversation and I know you and Aram talk a lot too. But you know, the other day I was teaching and I kind of had a full day and you know Aram was, you know, doing his thing and he was busy all day and, believe it or not, we don't like talk a ton during the day because he's busy doing his thing yeah, so it's not like there's a lot of chat going on between us.
Speaker 1:But so it's not like there's a lot of chat going on between us. But you know, he had walked by me to use the bathroom and I was kind of showing somebody how to tuck their pelvis and then, you know, a couple of hours later he was walking by again and I was showing somebody how to tuck their pelvis and I was kind of aware of the fact that he more or less heard me say the same thing to two different people. And then, sure enough, a couple of hours later he walks by and I'm telling somebody to tuck their pelvis. So anyway, I'm kind of like aware of the fact that Aaron's walked by me three times with three different people and I'm saying the same thing. So that evening he was kind of wrapping up and I was wrapping up at the same time we were talking and he's like welcome to my life, bro.
Speaker 2:What are?
Speaker 1:you talking about and he's like dude. I'm a professional pelvis Tucker like this and it's like it's so comical, joe. But you know, I think one of the biggest problems that 90%, probably 95%, of golfers have is the fact that they set up with their, their pelvis, completely in the wrong orientation. There's just no way to transition without kind of spilling out, so to speak, with that pelvis in that orientation and, talking about the psoas, that's definitely affected by the orientation of the pelvis for sure, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's definitely. I think that's why so many people think they have back pain. They, to your point, probably don't have quote unquote back pain, but they definitely have pain and it's definitely, you know, somewhere down there. And, like I said, it's all happening so fast and they're blackout for half of it. So you know them, being able to identify what that is is difficult.
Speaker 1:But I think, honestly, you know, if you're listening to this podcast and you think what Joe has said is pretty smart, like I do, and you think I haven't sounded too dumb which hopefully I haven't and you're like wanting to take this information and do something with it, then I would strongly look at getting into a more tucked position with your pelvis, which is kind of easy to do.
Speaker 1:If you think about standing up normal, you want to go ahead and grab where your belt buckle would be and you want to pull it to your forehead, like your Steve Urkel, and that is really going to create a lot of contraction within your glutes and a lot of contraction within your abdomen and core, and we're literally trying to tuck the front and back into the middle to solidify and connect the pelvis to the abdomen and thoracic.
Speaker 1:So by just doing that alone and getting knees a little more over toes kind of a little more athletic pressure, feeling more underneath the ball of the lead or of the feet, you know that's going to do a world of good for most golfers. The problem is is that most golfers are like Joe and myself and every other human being and we sit way too much, and the problem is is that most men are getting a smaller butt as they go, like they're not getting a bigger butt, they're getting a bigger front but they're actually getting smaller on the backside because we're not activating and using those glutes enough. And that is what tends to be really difficult, I think, for a lot of golfers is that they don't have enough strength within the musculature that makes up the pelvis to really hold that in contraction during the golf swing, and it tends to lead to a lot of issues with the way the spine has to now move and bend, and then I think that's where people start starting equating that they have back pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just so I understand. I just want to clarify yeah, they do have back pain, they do feel. Yeah, of course they do. Yeah, but the reason why is that that isn't the cause. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:But, doc, you're a great doc, and here's why because, like, this is how it's supposed to work, and this is this is the problem with being a normal human being and not a doctor. I go to the doctor and I say hey, doc, my knee hurts. And he's like oh, it's probably your ankle or your hip. And I'm like no, no, no, I don't think you're listening to me, it's my knee, doc, my knee hurts.
Speaker 2:And he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, because the knee, the knee and the elbow are slaves to above or below. So, um, yeah, so one of the one of the things and, by the way, that that was the whole emphasis, as, like I can, of the 27 exercises that we have on our Rotex Motion app, there's probably at least 10 of them that address strengthening the pelvis to where it stays in the best position. Right, because I have been to and there's nothing, nothing wrong with these at all. They've been around for a long time. Joseph pilates was a was a genius. Uh, yoga, yoga's been around for many, many, like eons, right, yeah, centuries.
Speaker 2:But I, I would go to my patients' yoga classes or Pilates classes so I could meet their instructor and I would hear them say tuck your pelvis, tuck your pelvis, tuck your pelvis. Well, after three years going to the same class, you shouldn't have to be told to tuck your pelvis. It should be tucked. So here's one thing that we can understand. Here there's a bone right in the middle, right in front of our pelvis. You can look it up. It's called the asis, the anterior superior iliac spine, and then one in the back called posterior posterior superior iliac spine, right, two bumps. Those should be parallel to the ground, right?
Speaker 2:What I learned when I was going to a doctoral, when I was getting my doctoral in chiropractic, is that normal is seven degrees tilt, anterior tilt, tilted frontwards, right. Well, I later what I understand. Now that might be normal, but it's not perfect right. Perfect is when those two bones are perfectly aligned. That means you have equal tension from your glutes to your psoas muscle, from your quads to your hamstring muscles, from your internal rotators to your external rotator to your hips, and that is basically the universe that's surrounding your pelvis, and you want your pelvis to to stay like that. Now it goes really, really deep, by the way.
Speaker 1:Um but you know what? I'm going to take your challenge and I'm going to explain what you just said to our listeners, but I'm going to assume that I only have three year olds for listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, here we go yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so your, your two hips.
Speaker 1:I know we don't like that, but your two hips make a pelvis and your two hips are two glasses of grape juice, Okay, and the problem is is that you're three years old and you're pouring it for the first time and you poured them both completely full.
Speaker 1:So the thing is is that we know that if you just stand normal, you're going to spill some out the front. So you've got to take those two cups of grape juice, those two hips, and you got to pull them back up and keep them level. Yeah, yeah, right, like that's. That's really kind of the thought here is, and I love that you're giving actual points that I can touch, that we can talk about, like we want to see those, but really the big idea is that we have got to get the butt more underneath of us and not behind us. That can't be the position we try to play golf from, because it just makes it all but impossible to rotate around that spine in a way that's not going to create a lot of unnecessary bends and tilts on the spinal column, especially the lower lumbar.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what does a dog do when they're submissive or they've done something wrong? Throw it around their back. They'll tuck their tail. That's what we should do. We should tuck our tail.
Speaker 1:I like it, that's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, I've got you know we can say this on a podcast. But I've got you know we can say this on the podcast. But when I work with football players, right, they are the hardest ones to teach to tuck their pelvis because they are in that sprint mode. Their pelvis almost every one of them has severely anteriorly or frontward tilt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, because we kind of fall forward to walk and run right, so that would only make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now regular people what I will explain to them. I said I want you to keep this. This is your sacrum. Your tailbone is shaped like my hand and it is shaped exactly. If I put that right over my sacrum, it fits. I want you to keep this part against the wall. Then I want you to pull this part away from the wall. That's the proper movement. Professional football players don't understand that, but I'll tell them pee on the the ceiling and they'll immediately get it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean it's crazy. But in all honesty, kind of going back to what we were talking about with football linemen, uh, you know, using the Rotex, you know it's, it's absolutely wild, in my opinion, to see those guys get on there and just literally fall on their face because they are professional athletes, like they know how. They know how to do this. But what I've kind of found with the linemen is that, you know, most coaching uh tends to be kind of, uh, historical, kind of based coaching, like. I've've heard this. This is what I was taught.
Speaker 2:This is what I did.
Speaker 1:I was a professional, so I'm going to pass this information off to you and what else has to swing with your hips.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly so it's. I understand, like they're not all wrong, and I'm not saying that that kind of coaching is always wrong because, honestly, there's a lot of good that comes from it because it's normally application-based, so like I don't have anything wrong with that. But I'm not going to mention the team that I'm, I'm, I'm not allowed to mention the team I'm working for, but I'm not going to mention the name. But they had a very uh, old school, uh, lineman coach and he firmly believed that everybody's butt should be at the same height when they're in alignment, so much so that he used to walk around with a stick that was long enough to where he could put it on butts and check heights. Okay, that was his kind of methodology behind how we make a good line. But what I asked him and asked the strength and conditioning team is I said well, what happens if player A has a longer fibula and tibia than player B? Yeah, will their butts be at the same height anatomically?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the answer is no, of course, right. So what we really have been able to find out is, through kind of some jump testing and a few different things and reactive and explosive moves, what we've been able to find out is that, you know, not everybody's butt should be at the same level for them to create the most push away from the ground. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've really enjoyed the Rotex because typically these linemen if you want so, if you watch a college football game right, and I know everybody's doing that right now If you watch linemen, every one of them has knee braces, everyone. But when you go to the professional level, you don't see any knee braces online and you also see a reduction in padding, you see a reduction in equipment because these guys are trying to beat the best players in the world at what they do. So they're shedding weight, they're doing everything they can to where they can be as efficient and fast and as mobile as possible. So, long story short. Where I think things have really changed now is that when these professional linemen are growing up and learning how to do this movement, they're in a restrictive brace that only allows them to use so much of their ability, because the brace prevents them from going to end ranges of motion, right. It's there to kind of keep us in the middle. So, long story short, I really think that it's been incredible with the Rotex, because what I've seen in the NFL level with the professional athletes I'm working with there is that their ankles and their knees are generally always banged up, always, they're always rolling on them, they're always twisting them, somebody's falling on them, like they're always banged up. And when they are weighing in excess of 300 pounds, right, and we're compressing those already kind of strained joints and joint segments even more, now the mobility really goes to crap. So by having them on the Rotex device, it's amazing because it allows the nervous system to kind of let things rotate again underneath the player and now they can kind of find those ranges of motion throughout their body because the nervous system isn't kicking in and going whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, we might hurt ourselves again. And it's been wild man, I mean, it's it's. I think that we're.
Speaker 1:Where people get confused with what we're trying to do, joe, is. We want to make it simple, we want to make it as simple as we can. We want to tell you the one thing that you need to hear to do it better. We really do more than anything on the world, but to do that, we have to be working from a general consensus or understanding of where we currently are, and if the person that we're trying to teach something to doesn't know those things, you have to explain it. You have to teach these things, you have to have them aware of how the whole system works if you're going to elicit any kind of change or potential for a change.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And since you mentioned, like ankle mobility, all that stuff, right up right To sell a program, right Sell a book.
Speaker 1:Let's just say book Books are kind of defunct nowadays.
Speaker 2:Right, let's just say sell a book. You're not going to sell a book that's that thick. You want to sell it that thick, so you have to pad it with all different kinds of stuff, right? So, uh, let's just talk about, um, how we would treat traditionally mobility and stability. Okay, you have to mobilization exercises for this particular part of the body, this particular part, and then, and then separate from that, stability exercises for this particular part of the body and there's, like, this is supposed to provide stability, this is supposed to provide stability. You know, mobility all the way up the chain, right, right, true, true.
Speaker 2:However, everything has a component of mobility and stability, so why not train them at the same time? So when you get those linemen on the Rotex working against rotational resistance, you're training automatically. You don't have to separate stuff Automatically depending upon the position of their body. Every mobile and stable joint in the body to equal degrees against resistance. Simple as that. You don't have to. There's no argument of whether you want to go mobility or stability first, because it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I 100% agree, and I think this is actually kind of it right. I think it's actually a great point because I want to mention this and then I've got to get to teaching and Joe's got a busy day as well, so, but I did want to bring this up. I've been saving it for the end. You know, joe, I can't thank you enough because you've done something that I don't think very many people are aware of, and if you're listening to this podcast and you feel like we've been trying to sell you a Rotex, I apologize. We are not trying to sell you a Rotex.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great piece of equipment. I think you definitely should have one. I think if you're serious about not only improving your daily overall life, but also your golf game or any other sports that you play, I think a Rotex is by far and away your best friend. It's 10, 15 minutes a day. It's very, very simple. It doesn't require any kind of advanced membership or anything like that. It's something that you can literally take out of the box and use today and start feeling better. So I think the Rotex is great, and I apologize if I've come off as any kind of salesman, because I'm not trying to be one.
Speaker 2:I don't think it sounded like that at all. Yeah, yeah, so I just want to be clear about that.
Speaker 1:And then I want to add this next point If you don't feel comfortable purchasing the Rotex, for whatever reason, there's something even better that Joe's done and he doesn't get any credit for it, and I think it's probably the greatest resource for a modern golf coach that you could possibly have and it is the Rotex motion app. And the app is quite I mean honestly and it's free and it's free I, I, that's.
Speaker 1:I was going to get there. The reason that I haven't done my app yet is because Joe did his app first and I still haven't figured out a way to do a better app than what Joe has done, because it's not just us talking at you and saying a bunch of big words that maybe you're not familiar with. Talking at you and saying a bunch of big words that maybe you're not familiar with, but instead is actually a really thoughtful way of walking people through exercises, explaining how it works, and then, more importantly, there's also a lot of animations that actually show exactly how these muscles are moving, which is incredible. So if you have heard us say something on this podcast and you're unfamiliar with it, you can literally go to the app store. You can download the Rotex Motion app for free it doesn't cost you a penny and you literally can look up these exact things, exactly how we set them, and you will literally see an animation of how that works from a anatomical perspective. And that is gold, because for so many people, the golf swing is happening in less than two seconds and there's just not a lot of time to quantify what is actually happening in our golf swing. So by understanding the concept and how the muscle actually works and fires and activates, and then by being able to put that into your fields and then, if you're fortunate enough to have the Rotex device, I mean it's kind of a home run and I truly think that if you look at the price of the Rotex and you look at the benefits from the Rotex, it's almost comical Like you should have one already because it really does help. And I think it's one of the greatest things that any coach could have in their space where they coach, because, as I said earlier, I know what I want their golf swing to eventually kind of quote unquote look like, but they don't know how that feels because they've not done that before potentially. So by being able to create the feeling for them, it opens up a whole opportunity for a lot of conversation and a lot of learning, and I think that that's what Joe's device with the Rotex Motion really does is it translates feelings, and that, as a coach, is by far the hardest thing that I have to try to do on a daily basis. So I really want to take my hat off.
Speaker 1:I want to thank Joe for his years of service first and foremost, and then, secondly, I want to thank him for his time today, because his time is very, very valuable. He has been a tremendous wealth of knowledge to me and has probably taught me more about the human body than I ever could have possibly dreamt of learning. So I'm very fortunate to have him in my life. Please give him a follow at Rotex Motion. He does not do a personal one, it's all Rotex all the time, but it's awesome. So make sure to give him a follow. Reach out to him. I know he has a golf school coming up here very shortly with Fast Eddie Fernandez and my good friend Jared Bickle over at Touche Golf Performance in Fort Wayne, indiana. So if you're interested in getting to hang out with Eddie and Joe for the day, heck I might even show up. You never know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you're going to be in the area, you can check that out. You can find information on Joe's Instagram account. But thanks again to Joe and thanks to everybody for listening. If you haven't already, please download and subscribe to this podcast. That certainly makes things a lot more helpful for us. And if you want, find us on social media and leave us some comments. Let us know what you'd like to hear and I promise, if you give us some comments on social media, we'll definitely reach out and try to get you some answers to your questions. So thanks again, thanks to Joe, and thanks for everybody listening, and until next time, keep grinding.
